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The Great Skenardo
2007-05-22, 05:51 PM
The Depression Thread
Given a mod-nod, I'm re-creating this thread because I think it has a lot to offer this community. so, welcome.

Perhaps you'd like someone to listen,
or maybe you need some advice.
Maybe your heart's feeling broken
Or maybe it's colder than ice.

We'll keep a light on
and we'll keep the door wide
Although there's a storm
or a blizzard outside.

We're here to support
when the world seems to crumble
when you can't seem to win
or to do naught but stumble

We'll keep a light on.

This is a thread for people with depression or people who are feeling depressed or even just down, and also for those who want to help.

J_Muller
2007-05-22, 05:56 PM
My humble contribution to this thread consists of a link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo).

:smallsmile:

Khantalas
2007-05-22, 05:58 PM
Right. Anyway...

I don't know where else to post this, and it isn't important enough to deserve its own thread, so I'll just make do with here.

I've been feeling insignificant lately. Like, I can contribute nothing, even to my own life. I can't study, I don't have any friends, I am terrible at social interactions (good thing is, I'm taking help about these three - we'll see how that works out), I am much worse than what I could be in college (and it's only my first year), I probably know only as much as any dedicated person with average intellect would after two hours on any given topic, I could care less about what happens around me if I tried, I spend hours on the web adding not even one thing at times, and besides my family, most of the people that feel important are miles away.

Now, I know I could be better. Everyone I know and their mother and their little dog knows that I could be better. I can be good at nearly anything I have ever attempted, apparently, since everyone says so, including complete strangers. And I am better, sometimes, when I care a bit more. But those moments are few and far between lately.

There are a few things that contribute to this, especially of late. One of them is, well, the fact that I am spoiled rotten. I am used to receiving attention, and lots of it. Not only from my family, but at school, too. I was, to be fair, the top student of my class in elementary and junior high. Far from the best - I can't remember studying for an exam once in elementary school, and only a few times in junior high. Yet I still had the best grades, and the teachers spoiled me for it. I barely missed the top 100 in high school entrance test (yes, we have those), and that was with only one month's of loose study. I got into one of the best high schools in the country (considered the best, but that's really not the truth), and I got a 5.00 average (on a maximum of 5.00) without serious study (except for second year literature, admittedly), and even then I was spoiled, although considerably less, while students far better than me were not spoiled as much.

Then two things struck me: internet and college.

On the web, I am a nobody. No one knows who I am, what I can do, what I can't do, what I know, what I like, etc.. They only know what I present them, what I write for them to read, what I can relay, to the best of my ability. And my best ability is not very good. I could be the most intelligent guy on Earth, and you couldn't know it, because you couldn't see it in my posts. I could be caring, sensitive, charming, funny, lots of good and positive stuff, but you would not see me so.

In college, it's even worse. They see more of me than you will probably ever do, but they don't see the good side, the side that I'd prefer people to see. Instructors only see the academic side, the failing side, while most other people don't even know me, even those I see every day.

That's one reason I can think of. The other is the fact that I can't handle emotions. And I'm way too emotional for such a person. I tend to get sad, angry, annoyed, etc., often, and when I am in such a mood, I can't confront it, and tend to flee whatever causes that emotion. This tends to make me ineffective in certain situations (the rest are usually covered by my academic inadequacy), and a poor member of whatever community I'm in.

There are certainly other reasons I can't think of right now. I have been deluding myself that I was going to get better. But the last month clearly showed me that I haven't been getting any better. In fact, I have been getting worse.

Something that comes to mind is my time in here. I have been a regular member of GitP for about five months now. And I have been posting relatively quite a lot in that time. But when I think about those four months and numerous posts, not a single contribution that meant something comes to mind. And this is just one example. The same goes for another forum I have been a regular member of for more than two years, where I left for over three months and they noticed only when I got back. It goes for any other similar community, online or not.

Now, this leads me to the question: what purpose do I have other than to breed? What makes my life worthwhile? At least I had a dream of being something once, seeing how I was successful then. But now, enjoying anything is hellishly difficult and this feeling of void and lack of purpose are getting harder to ignore. And since I will never consider ending my life, what can I do to make it go away?

I know this may feel a bit too vague for you to help me, but I can't think of more details right now. But right now, at least until Monday, I will appreciate any and all help you can give.

I was gonna post this on the old Depression Thread right before it went down, but most of it is still relevant.

Also, yay! The Depression Thread is back! *does a happy dance*

^ That is pretty much the most depressing song ever. Right after the Galaxy Song.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-22, 06:01 PM
The only reason I'm not pouncing on Khantalas' new post like a kitten on a twitchy piece of string is that I've already had the opportunity to comment on it earlier. If he feels like it, Khan can of course post them as well.

zeratul
2007-05-22, 07:38 PM
That is pretty much the most depressing song ever. Right after the Galaxy Song.

What's the song. I love depressing music.

Ego Slayer
2007-05-22, 07:41 PM
Yay, it's back! Thanks, Skenardo. ^_^
Know if the old one is going to be move back to FB?:smallconfused:

J_Muller
2007-05-22, 07:41 PM
He's talking about my link. I can't tell if he's joking or serious, though.

I actually like the Galaxy Song. But then, pretty much all of what Idle does is solid gold.

Khantalas
2007-05-22, 07:42 PM
I like the songs. They're just as depressing as Celestia. All bright and good and archony.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-22, 07:50 PM
Yay, it's back! Thanks, Skenardo. ^_^
Know if the old one is going to be move back to FB?:smallconfused:

According to the mod I spoke with, the old thread won't be coming back.

Trog
2007-05-22, 07:55 PM
Trog Update:

Continuing where I left off of posting observation while under therapy for depression in the hopes that this will help some reader.

I missed a day of medicine. Don't. Ever. Do this. I was honestly in VERY bad shape. However I WAS able to (eventually) remember that I did not take my meds and I was then on the lookout for negative conclusion jumping. And was pretty good and spotting it if I remained vigilant.

I have come to notice that my medication, while working, was steadily having less and less effect on me. Eventually it seemed to really fade and I started to fall back into some of the same thinking modes. A good lesson from this is that I am not yet prepared to be off of meds. So I switched. Actually today is my first day on the new stuff. All in all it seems okay so far but time will tell. Hopefully it will be much less disruptive than the last medication (which had the following side effects: tremors and shakes esp. if taken with too much caffeine, restless sleep, and delayed gratification... er... after a while you begin to... er... chafe :smallredface: )

So there you go. I was on it for months before I could accurately assess that the drug was not doing its job. I have been told that it is rare to get the correct medication for you for depression right out of the gate. Everyone's body chemistry is a little different so experimentation may be needed. See your physician, don't try this at home, etc., etc.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-22, 07:59 PM
@Trog

Glad to hear you're making progress on that front. Keep us updated! We tend to worry :smalleek:

(Incidentally, any word on how Bor's doing?)

dogmac
2007-05-22, 08:09 PM
Trog, you are so right. Do NOT miss medication. I can so notice when I forget mine. Not usually that day but the next one.

What are you on? I am on enough lovan to (quote shrink) launch a rocket.

I should introduce myself. I got rather nasty PND after I had my daughter. I have since been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Might give a link too, since I did an article on my pnd a couple of years ago, which explains how things were then. They have improved since.

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/page/feb_2005_dianne.html

Cheers

Di

zeratul
2007-05-22, 08:15 PM
(Incidentally, any word on how Bor's doing?)


I emailed him asking for him to come back. I doubt he will ,he seems resolute but kind in his decision.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-22, 08:17 PM
Trog, you are so right. Do NOT miss medication. I can so notice when I forget mine. Not usually that day but the next one.

What are you on? I am on enough lovan to (quote shrink) launch a rocket.

I should introduce myself. I got rather nasty PND after I had my daughter. I have since been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Might give a link too, since I did an article on my pnd a couple of years ago, which explains how things were then. They have improved since.

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/page/feb_2005_dianne.html

Cheers

Di

Welcome to the forums! Clearly you're not in search of advice, and you say you're doing better than before...
Glad to hear it. :smalleek: it's quite a story.

EDIT: @ Zeratul: I figured as much. I was just wondering if he was still doing okay and all that.

LurkerinthePlaygnd
2007-05-22, 08:23 PM
Glad to see this thread is back. It seems to be a pretty helpful one.

On the old thread I offered an ear/eye for anyone that wants to talk about drug addiction or alcoholism. While I am not an addictions councilor, I am a recovering alcoholic/addict who's been through the wringer. If you prefer, PM's are welcome.

Daze
2007-05-22, 08:28 PM
I get seasonal depression disorder... after too many months of no sun, I start to get really irritable and kind of sad.
I'm also an insomniac, so that doesnt help anything...

thanks for listening :)

dogmac
2007-05-22, 08:32 PM
You poor thing with the insomnia. I know that lack of sleep makes EVERYTHING worse. I find that I have to really watch myself, and make sure I go to bed at reasonable times, otherwise I know I am going to have a horrible time the next day.

Makes me quite boring to be around sometimes :D Ooh, it's midnight, time to go to bed or I'll be suicidal tomorrow. NIGHT!!

Yes, things have improved bigtime for me, mainly. I am now divorced (woo), and shrink and I are trying to work out why I am the way I am. He thinks childhood sexual abuse. I don't remember it. I don't enjoy my shrink sessions. Bleah!

Cheers

Di

Daze
2007-05-22, 08:40 PM
You poor thing with the insomnia. I know that lack of sleep makes EVERYTHING worse. I find that I have to really watch myself, and make sure I go to bed at reasonable times, otherwise I know I am going to have a horrible time the next day.

Makes me quite boring to be around sometimes :D Ooh, it's midnight, time to go to bed or I'll be suicidal tomorrow. NIGHT!!

Yes, things have improved bigtime for me, mainly. I am now divorced (woo), and shrink and I are trying to work out why I am the way I am. He thinks childhood sexual abuse. I don't remember it. I don't enjoy my shrink sessions. Bleah!

Cheers

Di

It sure does make everything worse. No energy, cant think clearly, moodiness, etc...

I've been to a few different doctors, a couple of shrinks... not a one has been able to help me. I get the same crap answers everytime (even though I tell them I've gotten those answers before).

It's always "Lay in bed earlier", "try deep breathing", "get yourself in a good sleep pattern", "Take this supplement", "Try this sleep pill", blah blah blah.

After much investigating, I think I've nailed it down to a circadian rhythm problem. My brain cycles awake at night, and tones down during the day. Good news is, I know what the deal is. Bad news is, nothing I can do about it.
No matter if I slept 12 hours, or 12 minutes the night before, I always seem to be up til 5:00am or so. I even lay in bed for HOURS before anything happens. The dark circles under my eyes are ridiculous.

Anyhow... I hope everything goes well with your sessions. Psych-work is hard for me, but I hope it works for you. :)

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-22, 08:50 PM
@Daze

Clearly you're in the midst of professional help, so I doubt you need amateur advice at this point :smallsmile:. Being a night owl definitely has its advantages and disadvantages; I'd guess the worst part is not being able to choose which one you are. Hopefully you'll find some permanent solution soon.

Trog
2007-05-22, 08:50 PM
Post Natal Depression is BAAAAD. My ex wife had a bout of that when our oldest was born. Horrible both for her and me. I even tried to get her to see someone (let me tell you THAT went over not at all). Cleared up on it's own, eventually. But those months were not very fun. Well except for the cute kid and stuff. :smallsmile:

Daze
2007-05-22, 08:56 PM
@Daze

Clearly you're in the midst of professional help, so I doubt you need amateur advice at this point :smallsmile:. Being a night owl definitely has its advantages and disadvantages; I'd guess the worst part is not being able to choose which one you are. Hopefully you'll find some permanent solution soon.

Heh, no worries man. No professional help here, I've given up on that... Let's put it this way, my doc gave me a script of Ambien (zolpidem)... didn't effect me in the least. Actually made me hyper.
So that's all that needs to be said about my body chemistry, a sleeping pill wakes me up... sheesh.

Anyway, appreciate any amatuer advice, you cant do any worse than the so called professionals.
I've kinda accepted my night owl status. I work 2nd shift (2:30-11p). So that allows me to live fairly comfortably, with about 5 or 6 hours of sleep at night. I just know it wont last forever though... but what can you do? Eventually I'll be old... and I notice old people sleep less... that might help.

Deathcow
2007-05-22, 08:57 PM
So what exactly happened to the old thread? And for that matter, what happened to Bor? Sorry if this has already been hashed over, but I guess I must have missed that part of DT history.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-22, 09:01 PM
Heh, no worries man. No professional help here, I've given up on that... Let's put it this way, my doc gave me a script of Ambien (zolpidem)... didn't effect me in the least. Actually made me hyper.
So that's all that needs to be said about my body chemistry, a sleeping pill wakes me up... sheesh.

Anyway, appreciate any amatuer advice, you cant do any worse than the so called professionals.
I've kinda accepted my night owl status. I work 2nd shift (2:30-11p). So that allows me to live fairly comfortably, with about 5 or 6 hours of sleep at night. I just know it wont last forever though... but what can you do? Eventually I'll be old... and I notice old people sleep less... that might help.

Old people sleep less? Not in line with mine own observations, I'm afraid.

Anyways. The only thing I can suggest, if you're not content with a nightowl lifestyle (and who can blame you), then it's possible to fill in the gaps with rest that isn't sleep. Some people swear by meditation, if that suits your temperment, but I find a good way to rest is to sit in a darkened room with a fan blowing and listen to smooth and quiet music.

I've never had insomnia, so pillar of salt, and all that.

EDIT: regarding the previous thread, I gather that Bor left after he and someone else on the board had a somewhat personal exchange, and the thread was closed for mod review. A mod has informed me that they're not planning on reinstating the old thread, so I got the mod-nod to make the new one.

Daze
2007-05-22, 09:09 PM
Old people sleep less? Not in line with mine own observations, I'm afraid.

Anyways. The only thing I can suggest, if you're not content with a nightowl lifestyle (and who can blame you), then it's possible to fill in the gaps with rest that isn't sleep. Some people swear by meditation, if that suits your temperment, but I find a good way to rest is to sit in a darkened room with a fan blowing and listen to smooth and quiet music.

I've never had insomnia, so pillar of salt, and all that.

Yeah, quiet rest time is ok I guess... but that's a lot of valuable night-time video game playing that I'd be losing. ; )
My GF doesnt appreciate me wasting my weekends on it...
And meditation time doesnt go over so well at work.. buncha slave drivers here.

I'll stop complaining though, such is life.

And old people do seem to sleep less in my experience. They tend to toss around in bed a lot and still get up at the crack of dawn... but maybe thats just what I've noticed, could be wrong.

Ego Slayer
2007-05-22, 09:19 PM
EDIT: regarding the previous thread, I gather that Bor left after he and someone else on the board had a somewhat personal exchange, and the thread was closed for mod review. A mod has informed me that they're not planning on reinstating the old thread, so I got the mod-nod to make the new one.
'kay... though, this bothers me because there were thing in that thread I needed to read.:smallfrown:

J_Muller
2007-05-22, 09:23 PM
The fact that what was said will never be made public is... to say the least, annoying.

The above is a gigantic understatement. Not knowing what's going on in an important situation is in the top 5 on my "list of things that majorly tick me off".

dogmac
2007-05-22, 09:23 PM
Another link for you guys

http://www.beyondblue.org.au/

This is based in Australia, but I think the information there is helpful to pretty much everyone.

ocato
2007-05-22, 09:27 PM
Yes, things have improved bigtime for me, mainly. I am now divorced (woo), and shrink and I are trying to work out why I am the way I am. He thinks childhood sexual abuse. I don't remember it. I don't enjoy my shrink sessions. Bleah!

Please take this with a grain of salt, because I am not a fan of most therapists.

I would suggest having a discussion with your therapist about his or her psychological paradigm. I am not denying repressed memories as a concept or as something that may occur, but I think that some therapists are prone to a sort of Freudian approach that involves a lot of things that I do not see based on science. Sigmond Freud wasn't much of a scientist in regards to many of this theories, and the fact that many modern psychologists follow his beliefs is a riddle to me. I am not meaning to attack you or your therapist, but I do worry when I hear things about diagnosing repressed sexual abuse that may've not ever occured. The human mind is very open to suggestive memory adaptation, and it would not be the first time that a therapist has 'created' a memory of sexual abuse or altered a memory to appear more abusive than it was by taking advantage of the amount of trust a patient often has in their therapist. I doubt that any doctor would do this intentionally, but sometimes it is done in an attempt to 'help' you. Depressed or unbalanced patients are often quick to assume the patterns their therapist appears to be seeking. Parents or guardians are (rarely) imprisoned because of these circumstances from time to time, and it is sad.

Good luck with your problem though, I do hope that you find the help you need. :smallsmile:

Skippy
2007-05-22, 10:59 PM
Hi there everyone

Anyone remembers my story?? Well, I'm depressed once again...
I thought I had gotten over her already (Is it the right verb form?? I really have to improve my english, I think...) and I was even happy, since she and I could talk freely as before. I don't know if she is playing with me or if she's interested in me somehow, or if she only sees me as a friend, but I'm really depressed since yesterday, because I spoke to a friend of hers, who told me how she had felt about me some time ago. It really hurt me, even though I knew it already. Suddenly I realized I hadn't got any better, and that I am still foolishly in love with her, and then I'm afraid. I love her so much I'm afraid there will be a moment when I can't stand it anymore and try to win her love, even if she has a boyfriend, he's my friend and she told me she will never go out with me, so I would earn a black eye (or perhaps more than that) and the loss of two friendships.

The result: Once again, I'm running away from her. I don't want to be near her, or talk to her, or anything, because it hurts. AND to make things funnier, both her and myself are taking the same japanese class, so I have to be alone with her (Well, not exactly alone, but at least without her boyfriend or our friends) three days a week, two and a half hours a day... I don't know what to do... It sucks...

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-22, 11:17 PM
@skippy

The second punch doesn't any less than the first, especially if it's in the same place.

Well, she has a boyfriend whom she's apparently happy with, and you've apparently decided that she won't be any good for you. Now all you have to do is tell your heart and your hormones that.

That's the tricky part. :smalltongue: I'd encourage you to stay strong and avoid direct contact with her. In Japanese, sit further away or in a row that's in front of her row, so she doesn't distract you. Your hormones never have your own self-interest in mind; they're kinda selfish like that.

Best of luck.

Skippy
2007-05-22, 11:21 PM
Thanks Skenardo, that's what I plan on doing. And it's not that she isn't of any good for me. I think that she must be the best thing that ever happened to me since I got here, but I can't be with her. That's what bothers me... It's not a hormonal thing... Heck, I left another girl who was hotter for her... i'm just kinda stupid, y'know...

BTW, you've read Snicket too, that's cool!

LurkerinthePlaygnd
2007-05-22, 11:22 PM
And old people do seem to sleep less in my experience.

I don't know, Daze, my grandmother is 86 and she sleeps 9-10 hours a night.

As to the Seasonal Affective Disorder, try replacing your light bulbs with "Daylight" bulbs, and leave them on a little longer than you normally would. (I know, I know, not very energy efficient) I read somewhere that this can help in some cases.

Lilly
2007-05-23, 04:11 AM
Look I'm sorry that y'all can't get to the old depression thread. If you really despriatly need something from it, I can see what I can do to get it to you, but it won't be coming back.

DarkLightDragon
2007-05-23, 06:33 AM
...What happened to the old one? *hasn't checked the depression thread for ages*

Anyway, here's a little update from DLD:

Two of the people I REALLY dislike left school. There's still quite a few more here, but two less idiots are better then two more idiots. :smallsmile:

And my ability to concentrate seems to have gone poof. :smallannoyed:

As for the actual emotional problems, I'm still having pretty frequent anger/upset/down moments. Medication is becoming a possibility. But I'm not sure what to think about that. :smallconfused:

Narmoth
2007-05-23, 06:50 AM
Yay, it's back. How great, now i can be depressed again :smallamused:
Anyway, it's good to to have it back.

I'm happy for you DLD. It's allways good when a idiot leaves for another place in this world*. Depending on what medication is the issue, it can be a very good thing. Get you doctor to explain how the medication works for you. If you know the name of the medication, I can also look into it for you

Take care!

__________________________________________:mitd:
* for those who also think it's great when idiots leave for the next world, check out darwin awards

smellie_hippie
2007-05-23, 08:57 AM
I'm very pleased that this thread is back again. I had sent a couple of PMs to a mod about restarting it, but felt that I wasn't up to the task of "starting it". Thanks to you Skenardo for taking up the yoke.

I'll be happy to be here for advice and all that stuff, as well as answer PMs if anyone has something to discuss confidentially.

Oh... and an update from me. I'm mailing off my certification for professional licensure in Marriage and Family Therapy tomorrow. I'll get my exam date scheduled, get finger-printed and hopefully get results ASAP. Still a little worried about the test... but if I don't know it now, I ain't gonna know it. :smalleek:

Hippie: Therapist in the Playground

Skippy
2007-05-23, 11:34 AM
Good luck smellie!!! We need a therapist, so please, please study hard and get your license soon!!

Quincunx
2007-05-23, 03:32 PM
The purpose of life?

In the far-distant future, nothing you do will have any impact, other than whether or not you bred. Dump fertile goo or bulge with pregnancy juices, or else renounce your claim to posterity. We'll forget what you wrote here in a week. Your friends will get families, your family will die off, your ideas and philosophies will lose relevance. Who invented the plow?

There are some current philosophies which'll soften the blow--force you to focus on goals here-and-now, diminish your desire for posterity, or revel in the lack of permanency.

SDF
2007-05-23, 03:41 PM
Actually, it is more logical that every minute thing you do will have a HUGE impact on the future, and more of an impact the further into the future you go. Think of it from a 'birds and bees' perspective; if you bump into a man or even cause him to miss a traffic light the chance that the same sperm that would have been a human if you hadn't affected him still becoming a human is astronomically small. You probably do this thousands of times or more in your life time. You affect the entire genotype of the species thousands of years from now.

Shoot a man in Reno and we may evolve into birds instead of fish.

sktarq
2007-05-23, 03:50 PM
Heh, no worries man. <snip>. that might help.
A the 5:08 wake up call...every damn morning. Yep familiar.
First thing. Figure out how much sleep you need. I'm lucky I need about 4-5 hours per 24 hour cycle with an 8 hour shot once every 1-2 weeks or a 2-3 hour naps every 12 hours.
Second thing: where do you work

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-23, 10:28 PM
I need a hug. My lady friend (two year anniversary coming up next month) has been making noises as if she thinks that we have less and less in common. This to me sounds like a prelude for separation.

Not that I can really blame her, of course; we have a long-distance relationship and are lucky to see each other once in a year. Furthermore, she recently underwent a somewhat stark conversion, which puts her faith nominally at odds with my own.

The thing is, I can't really read what she means. She seems unwilling to discuss at any length our theological differences, and I can't determine if her talk about a growing rift is just because she sees the difference in faith as an insurmountable gap. I don't think it is; I'm happy enough letting her believe what she will, but I expect the same courtesy in return. I don't think the nominal difference between what we believe necessarily constitutes a real obstacle to a healthy and lasting relationship.

And the worst part is, I don't know if she does either. :smallfrown:

I shouldn't jump to conclusions, but I can't help being apprehensive, anxious and depressed.

(Also had some dilemma as to whether to post this here, in the anxiety thread, or in the relationship woes and advice)

Note: I'm mostly looking for sympathy, I guess, but if you have advice that isn't faith-related, I'll take that too. If it is faith-related, then I'd gladly accept in PM any advice or thoughts you might be willing to share.

*Hugs go here*

Katonta
2007-05-24, 12:29 AM
I need a hug. snipity snip snip, snip SNIP!

Note: I'm mostly looking for sympathy, I guess, but if you have advice that isn't faith-related, I'll take that too. If it is faith-related, then I'd gladly accept in PM any advice or thoughts you might be willing to share.

*Hugs go here*

Hello again! Sadly, I wasn't in the old thread for to long before it went down, so I'm not very well known. First off, *Hug to TGS* hope that helps. Long-distance relationships are always tough, but as they say, "Love can cross any jump*." Good luck, I'm rooting for you!


The purpose of life?

In the far-distant future, nothing you do will have any impact, other than whether or not you bred. Dump fertile goo or bulge with pregnancy juices, or else renounce your claim to posterity. We'll forget what you wrote here in a week. Your friends will get families, your family will die off, your ideas and philosophies will lose relevance. Who invented the plow?

You know, Quincunx? Your partially right. Part of our lives are based on whether we have bred or not. Its programmed into our genes! But that isn't the only thing our lives are based on. You say that nothing you do will ever have any effect on anyone? I say your wrong, the simple act of holding a door open for someone can change their day. You say that everyone's names are doomed to be lost in history? I say, that may be true but that shouldn't keep us down. Has anyone forgotten Mr. Nobel? the inventor of dynamite? No, because his name will live on forever as one of the most prestiges(sp?) prizes you can receive, the Nobel Peace Prize. What about the Wright Brothers? I'm sure you know what they invented. They certainly weren't written off as nothings and forgotten in a week. You think to yourself, "How are these good examples? Their famous, they invented something life-changing!" I say their perfect examples, before they were known, before they changed the world, they were ordinary people just like you and me. The only difference? They decided to make something of themselves, they decided to not be written off as no ones who didn't make a difference and so can you. You can change the world, you can make a difference, you can be the one who stands out everywhere, even in history books.

Whew, that was a long one. Now that I am done, you can go about your lives, in comfort (or hardness) and you may write this off as a rambling of an old youngin and forget all about this. Heck, most of you probably will. But if I can reach to one person, touch him, change him maybe, and have him keep this post in their heart for the rest of their life, remembering it (no matter how vague) when they need help, then I have made a difference. Because, really people, this may be a depression thread, but that doesn't mean you can wallow in yours :smalltongue:

Question to the Mods: what was the reason the old thread was taken down? Just want to know so that we can stay away from it. Thanks.
*I don't know if they actually say that

Yiel
2007-05-24, 01:00 AM
The Great Skenardo, sometimes what one person in a relationship is willing to overlook for love... the other will be unable to let go.

If the uncertainty and stress of not being able to communicate with your lady is tearing you to bits... maybe you should broach the issue. Just tell her what you've been feeling, and how you stand. (Also a good time to tell her if you love her too).

*sends hugs*

Zeb The Troll
2007-05-24, 01:19 AM
Question to the Mods: what was the reason the old thread was taken down? Just want to know so that we can stay away from it. Thanks.For the record, not talking about the demise of the other thread is the best way to stay away from the topic that caused its demise. It's nothing that needs to be rehashed and has been summed up already in this thread.

J_Muller
2007-05-24, 01:26 AM
For the record, not talking about the demise of the other thread is the best way to stay away from the topic that caused it's demise. It's nothing that needs to be rehashed and has been summed up already in this thread.

Hmmph.

It's times like these where I wish I knew more about computers...:smallannoyed:

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-05-24, 09:03 AM
*sneaks in wearing clever plastic combination eyeglasses and nose disguise*

Ummm...Bor says that he's not actually gone, but has gone into more of a lurker mode. He's watching over his flock, and will likely handle things when, and ONLY when, he can do so without becoming an emotional wreck.

As for the old thread, Bor sincerely recommends leaving it alone. Pursuing it, he says, would be like pulling the scab off a wound that's healing nicely on its own.

To be clear, Bor is not officially back. He says he can be reached by e-mail, not PM, and will not be logging on to GitP regularly enough to handle whatever crisis arises. Still, he feels a sense of duty to that which he started many moons ago. So if you need him, e-mail him.

Skippy
2007-05-24, 11:37 AM
Hey Skenardo, I feel it's my duty to return the favor you did to me with your advice, with another advise...

First of all, I know how difficult it is to have a long-distance relationship and keep it working, because my ex and I went like that for about a year and a half, so I understand exactly how it can be hard for you to try and keep the fire lit, but let me tell you something... Here in Mexico we have a saying that goes "Amor de lejos es de pen... sarse" which means something along the way of "A far away love is a fool's love" (OK, that's not what it says there, but I wanted to keep it family-oriented... Even in Spanish...). Trust me, sometimes the best thing to do is to let go. It can be really hard and really frustrating to have the ones you love far from you... And specially if both of you have big differences to solve... It's not even healthy for any of you to keep it like that...

My ex and I, we haven't spoken too much from february to the date, because it's hurting us both to do so, and even more if we can't speak more than via messenger...

If you love her, let her go
If she comes back, she's yours
If she doesn't, she never was...

I know it's sad, but sometimes it's better to keep distances in order to solve problems and then you'll be able to speak freely once again and perhaps in a future you'll come back together.

Well, that's what I think, at least. Hope you find it useful

zeratul
2007-05-24, 05:27 PM
Well I feel like unloading so here I go......

I hate most people at my school. They are mostly immature ass wholes obsessed with acting as "Ghetto" as possible, and with their looks. I try to just hang with my friends and avoid them, but my friends hang with them at school. I have always been very open about my geekiness, which hasn't helped me either. I get made fun of about once every ten minutes at school. I am depressed considerabelly more than I am happy. However I never tell anyone because I feel guilty about unloading it onto them. This has eroded my emotional state for a while now, not to mention my mental state. I also have a feer of unloading, and talking about my sadness, because people see me as a happy go-lucky person, and I fear they wont believe me.

That's all from me for now.

LurkerinthePlaygnd
2007-05-24, 11:53 PM
*sneaks in wearing clever plastic combination eyeglasses and nose disguise*


Funny....I always thought that was his real nose.


If you love her, let her go
If she comes back, she's yours

If she doesn't, hunt her down and...oh, wait, this is supposed to be helpful advice. Sorry.


I have always been very open about my geekiness, which hasn't helped me either.

I had a friend back in school that got made fun of on a regular basis. He was as nerdy as they come. Well, let me just say, he retired at the age of 35 (cashed in his Microsoft stock options) married a beautiful, smart woman and now spends his time flying around the country in his aeroplane.

Just try to stick it out; endure the slings and arrows, as it were, and ten years from now you'll probably be doing just fine, these school years just a fading memory.

Most of the people I remember as the nerds from school are now in positions in life that would be envied by their tormentors.

DarkLightDragon
2007-05-25, 11:31 PM
Well I feel like unloading so here I go......

I hate most people at my school. They are mostly immature ass wholes obsessed with acting as "Ghetto" as possible, and with their looks. I try to just hang with my friends and avoid them, but my friends hang with them at school. I have always been very open about my geekiness, which hasn't helped me either. I get made fun of about once every ten minutes at school. I am depressed considerabelly more than I am happy. However I never tell anyone because I feel guilty about unloading it onto them. This has eroded my emotional state for a while now, not to mention my mental state. I also have a feer of unloading, and talking about my sadness, because people see me as a happy go-lucky person, and I fear they wont believe me.

That's all from me for now. That's a lot like my situation. It can be embarrassing to unload (For example, I have someone from TWO YEAR GROUPS BELOW ME harassing me...) but you really should do so. It's not really that bad to tell other people what's going on and ask for help.

I also like to think about things that other people here have said, the ones about nerds being hugely successful. I hope I can be successful like them. :smallsmile:

Ego Slayer
2007-05-25, 11:49 PM
Zer -
First off, anything ghetto bothers me a lot, so *hug of sympathy.*
That's why we're here! You can unload on us without feeling guilty.:smallbiggrin:


I have always been very open about my geekiness, which hasn't helped me either. I get made fun of about once every ten minutes at school.
You know you totally saw this link coming. Don't deny it. (http://www.countyoursheep.com/d/20050207.html)

DarkLightDragon
2007-05-25, 11:53 PM
You know you totally saw this link coming. Don't deny it. (http://www.countyoursheep.com/d/20050207.html) Ship isn't the only one who wants her self esteem!

<.<
>.>

Castaras
2007-05-26, 02:40 AM
@ Zer - We all have our depressing moments at school. I personally prefer the normal lessons over the "treats" we get. Simply because it keeps me away from the others in my year who bully or tease those who look and feel a bit different. Kinda sad.

Seriously, just get your way through the years, and then you'll be away from the chavs and bastards who like to hurt people for fun. From what I've heard, when you get to Uni/College it'll only get better. So there's something to look forward.

And good for you for talking about it. Talking helps. Loads. Even if its to empty space. Or even to just a parent or sibling.

Don't worry about it, anyway. I have a group of year 8s harrassing me currently, 'cos I'm a geek, and quite open about it.

Actually, I've gained alot of confidence in those sort of ways. Before I wouldn't have thought of doing anything like that.

Anyway, yeah, we all have our problems at school. I get teased loads. Always have been.

Recently some little [self scrubbed] got me involved in her little [self scrubbed] scheme to get another kid into deep trouble and a fight. Back fired against her, but I still am annoyed. I still don't get these people. Why the **** do these people spend so long doing these things? Don't they have anything better to do? Like check their hair gel is still in? Or their make up hasn't run? :smallannoyed:

Actually, what I've noticed is that all the teasing and bullying is coming from people who I've never seen before, or never spoken to before. People I've spoken to I get no teasing from. Makes kind of sense. You see a geeky person, look, with very few people with her. Lets take out our stress on her. Be fun!

...

Wait, no it doesn't. *sigh* Been on both spectrums of the bullying aspect, and I *still* can't understand them.

Stupid inability to be able to understand people. :smallannoyed:

Two close friends have fallen out, bad, and I can't do anything. The most I can do is talk. I can't put a hand on their shoulder, a reassuring hug, or anything. Hate it. Hate it hate it HATE IT! :smallmad:



...whew, that feels better already.

PlatinumJester
2007-05-26, 02:58 AM
Stop being so depressed everyone. Life sucks we know but that is tough cookies and there is nothing you can do about it but oh well. Just think, it could be worst. You could be trapped at the bottom of a well ad we all know that wells cause cancer and evil children who crawl out of video tapes.

Also if people bully you for being a geek than thats just to bad. I have ginger hair and am over weigh and have people taking the piss out of me constantly. However just remember you are better than them because you are smarter and have more money so just be cool and let it slide.

Castaras
2007-05-26, 03:01 AM
Stop being so depressed everyone. Life sucks we know but that is tough **** and there is nothing you can do about it but oh well. Just think, it could be worst. You could be trapped at the bottom of a well ad we all know that wells cause cancer and evil children who crawl out of video tapes.

Which is why I'm not being depressed. I'm just letting out my feelings so that I can feel happy. :smallsmile:

My diary thingy I keep I always try and end with something positive. Because I like being happy. :smallsmile:

Ceska
2007-05-26, 05:01 AM
I will not go into detail now, I spoke a lot in RB while the thread was down and I really needed to, I don't feel really depressed now, still not good, but not really bad either. Anyway, maybe when I have the time to write and read the previous posts. I just want to comment on this one now.


Stop being so depressed everyone. Life sucks we know but that is tough $hit and there is nothing you can do about it but oh well. Just think, it could be worst. You could be trapped at the bottom of a well ad we all know that wells cause cancer and evil children who crawl out of video tapes.
You're not helping at all. Seriously, I, for example, know that, it makes me only more depressed. It's depressing to think how you have a rather good life while others, sometimes better, die for no reason. And you can't change anything. Also, at least, I feel sometimes restricted in my feelings by this attitude. Neither the treating a depressive person as Emo who has lost his/her boy/girlfriend, nor the "it could be worse" attitude, which seems like "your life is oh so well, you have no right to be depressed about it". I decide what I think as depressive and I decide if I have the right to be depressed or not. Nobody else.

It wasn't meant personal at all, I simply had to say that a time.


Also if people bully you for being a geek than thats just to bad. I have ginger hair and am over weigh and have people taking the piss out of me constantly. However just remember you are better than them because you are smarter and have more money so just be cool and let it slide.
Smarter? In most cases, depending on what you value of course.
More money? Definatly not. And I'll probably never have because of our system and the fact that some will just take over their father's company.

An arrogant attitude helps only to parts. You will see, it also hampers you with others, because they will see you as the arrogant *** you present yourself. Of course, a bit arrogancy is needed and healthy, everbody has that (even those bullies do), but it's too easy to overdo it.

As to bullying. I've lived with that for seven years now. It gets less over time, when you grow into a class and take a position. Also, people do get older and grow up to be fairly intelligent beings with which you can talk normally. My tip is to get a thick skin and just wait.

Then again, I know perfectly well how much the "just wait" annoys me everytime I hear it when it comes to my depression. Maybe "use arrogancy but be aware you really aren't better than them if you look at it as a whole". That, or use it as a fuel. How many geeks have gone rich and married the hot babe because they were bullied and wanted to proof themselves? :smallwink:
Okay, there's definatly a lot of failures in there too. I know that. Doesn't change anything on the potential of a person.

Chaszmyr
2007-05-26, 08:32 AM
Please take this with a grain of salt, because I am not a fan of most therapists.

I would suggest having a discussion with your therapist about his or her psychological paradigm. I am not denying repressed memories as a concept or as something that may occur, but I think that some therapists are prone to a sort of Freudian approach that involves a lot of things that I do not see based on science. Sigmond Freud wasn't much of a scientist in regards to many of this theories, and the fact that many modern psychologists follow his beliefs is a riddle to me. I am not meaning to attack you or your therapist, but I do worry when I hear things about diagnosing repressed sexual abuse that may've not ever occured. The human mind is very open to suggestive memory adaptation, and it would not be the first time that a therapist has 'created' a memory of sexual abuse or altered a memory to appear more abusive than it was by taking advantage of the amount of trust a patient often has in their therapist. I doubt that any doctor would do this intentionally, but sometimes it is done in an attempt to 'help' you. Depressed or unbalanced patients are often quick to assume the patterns their therapist appears to be seeking. Parents or guardians are (rarely) imprisoned because of these circumstances from time to time, and it is sad.

Good luck with your problem though, I do hope that you find the help you need. :smallsmile:

I tried a therapist; they were a freudian whose specialty was in analysing the home situation, so of course the first subject (after "How can you pay?") was about my mother. I have had issues with her and her upbringing but that is not why I have depression - a misguided hippie mother is not a good explanation for violent mood swings, poor sleep, self-harm or headaches. I have yet to find a medical professional who will talk to me sensibly about dealing with what I believe is a chemical imbalance without palming me off with antidepressants or appointments the psychiatrist won't keep.

That was particularly aggravating, that - after that first appointment I got two more, which I only got details for days after I was due to be there. I then got rude phone calls about not keeping appointments and explained the situation to them. Gone kinda quiet since.

At the moment my own woes do have a cause; a hiatus hernia that has given me grief for two years. After a lot of yelling at a crooked specialist for striking me off the waiting list for no reason at all, I'm finally getting a check up next month, followed hopefully by surgery.

After that, well I'll still be depressed and I can't blame it on my health. I've been this bad since I was a kid. Medication has been a feature of life a few times but it doesn't help. I fight it largely with working and drawing - but there's only so much even a work ethic can do. I'm getting very close to the stage that I might just not get out of bed one morning, not for work or food or anything.

Well I won't bore you with my scars any further. Thanks for reading.

Hoggy
2007-05-26, 09:17 AM
As a psychology student: Freud sucks.

Anyways, moving on, I'm in a bad mood and might leave home soon. Whoopdedoo.

PlatinumJester, lack of understanding is no reason to mock something.

Timberwolf
2007-05-26, 09:23 AM
That's a lot like my situation. It can be embarrassing to unload (For example, I have someone from TWO YEAR GROUPS BELOW ME harassing me...) but you really should do so. It's not really that bad to tell other people what's going on and ask for help.

I also like to think about things that other people here have said, the ones about nerds being hugely successful. I hope I can be successful like them. :smallsmile:

DLD, there's only one way to deal with little kids harrassing you.

Get one of them and beat the snot out of them.

You'll get in trouble for it and have to deal with the recrimations and disappointed looks, but they'll soon be over. Detention'll last, what ? An hour. Worth it to solve it. It's one of the things I regret not doing when I was at school (although fortunately I only had to deal with the people in my age group.)

Zeratul, nothing is forever. People'll grow up. Just stay yourself and it'll be fine. This obseession with being "ghetto" won't last, I really, really hope so anyway. I don't know how old you are, but you can't have long left in school. Go to university, have a blast and then come back to your old neighbourhood driving a soft top mercedes with the hood down and extremely loud classical music blaring out of the speakers.

Skippy
2007-05-26, 09:50 AM
driving a soft top mercedes with the hood down and extremely loud classical music blaring out of the speakers.

The classical part, I loved it!!! Something like the old Ludwig Van will show them who's the boss!!

Cheer up Zer!! Just don't listen to them, they will grow tired of bothering you and find someone else to bother... At least that was my case

Ego Slayer
2007-05-26, 10:35 AM
Zer, just think, if you can make it though school with stupid people, then you can get into a college with fellow geeks, and cool people.:smallwink:

I wish I had the old DT thread; there was a good, more well-written, relevant response someone made.

Stop being so depressed everyone. Life sucks we know but that is tough $hit and there is nothing you can do about it but oh well. Just think, it could be worst.
You're not being helpful. The severity of the situation is defined by the person, not by comparisons.

DarkLightDragon
2007-05-26, 11:12 AM
@Timberwolf: I would LOVE to beat the crap outta that kid. But it's pretty hard to actually bring myself to do that as it's not in my nature (I like to be nice when given the chance to do so without being picked on), and I punch like a baby. Kicking, throwing (assuming I hit, which is not likely as I have terrible accuracy) and whacking on the head with textbooks, on the other hand... :smallamused:

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-26, 11:16 AM
Violence solves nothing but violence, and that, in itself is a lost caused, for Violence propagates more violence. So, what you need to do is find troubled youth like you. We're more common than you think.

LurkerinthePlaygnd
2007-05-26, 11:24 AM
DLD, there's only one way to deal with little kids harrassing you.

Get one of them and beat the snot out of them.

You'll get in trouble for it and have to deal with the recrimations and disappointed looks, but they'll soon be over.

Uh, I don't think that's such a good idea. It's called assault and the 'trouble' could very well follow you until you're an adult. My stepson got into a small altercation when he was 15 and the price he paid far outweighed the incident. It included a stay at a juvenile jail (you don't want to be there), 3 years of probation (had to drive to the courthouse twice a month to report in) and mandatory anger management counseling (which ain't free).

So please, think before you act.

Ceska
2007-05-26, 12:43 PM
Well, done with reading, onwards to real posting...


The purpose of life?

In the far-distant future, nothing you do will have any impact, other than whether or not you bred. Dump fertile goo or bulge with pregnancy juices, or else renounce your claim to posterity. We'll forget what you wrote here in a week. Your friends will get families, your family will die off, your ideas and philosophies will lose relevance. Who invented the plow?
Wow, it's not only discriminating, it's also wrong. (Nothing personal, I don't know you well enough for that). In fact, I believed in this more or less a few years ago. But think about it, it means catholic priests have no purpose, it means homosexuals have no purpose, which is clearly wrong, seeing as most higher species have both bi- and homosexuality. So, something can't be right, can it? Well, I figured out, the purpose is to create a nurturing society for the coming generations rather than just to breed. It doesn't matter if you have a child or not, you can still have a huge effect on somebody's life if you don't.



I hate most people at my school. They are mostly immature ass wholes obsessed with acting as "Ghetto" as possible, and with their looks. I try to just hang with my friends and avoid them, but my friends hang with them at school.
Do what I do, stay and laugh about them. You'll see, if you take a bit distance towards a group it can be actually funny to look. Nothing embarrassing there as long as you don't feel responisble. Life is far funnier if you don't take it seriously but as what it is, a satire.

I have always been very open about my geekiness, which hasn't helped me either. I get made fun of about once every ten minutes at school.
That will end sooner or later. For me it was ninth grade, for others it is sometime else. But it will end. People grow up and lose that, at least for a part. Also, find a technique to live with it, for me it was being arrogant, for others it may be something else, but you'll find it sooner or later.


I am depressed considerabelly more than I am happy. However I never tell anyone because I feel guilty about unloading it onto them. This has eroded my emotional state for a while now, not to mention my mental state. I also have a feer of unloading, and talking about my sadness, because people see me as a happy go-lucky person, and I fear they wont believe me.
Talk with somebody who takes you serious, when you feel the time is ready. Before that, talking won't help. And do it somewhere else than here, a dialogue is always good, but it's also always better in person.



As to the beating up etc, too many quotes which all wouldn't help all too much, I can only say, don't do it. Only the dumb resolve disputes with violence, or better said, animals only then resolve things with violence when they don't see another way. As that, I advise to approach a person and talk. I know it from my personal experience, the best thing is to get something like a speech before, or at least know exactly what do say. Like "isn't it sad that people have to harrass others to feel good? I mean, it's actually quite close to be funny, you have to make others feel worse because they are different to feel good yourself? That's not even to laugh about anymore. I pity you." And simply go. Most of the time it worked, made the other feel bad for some time, because really, most people at school are at least smart enough to feel bad about this and don't forget it, or made him get aggressive. The moment a person gets aggressive in an argument, he or she has lost. Violence only helps the other, never you. On the other hand, it doesn't matter how you say it. You may as well say it half shouting or very harsh, but important is to stay somewhat calm throughout this.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-26, 12:56 PM
Do what I do, be bitter and condescending to everybody. Also through in Sarcasm, because Sarcasm will get you everything in the world.

Skippy
2007-05-26, 12:59 PM
Unless people are really stupid and don't realise you're being sarcastic. Then it will lead you to anywhere except where you want to be...

[/sarcasm]

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-26, 01:03 PM
No, that's when it's best, when you say something that maybe right or maybe sarcastic, but with a straight face just to confuse the hell out of them.

Like that statement, Sarcastic? Maybe... No.

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-05-26, 01:11 PM
*sigh* You people are going to make me come back at least once a page, arenít you? Oddly, it looks like Ego misses me most, without actually saying it directly. Fine. Hereís input from someone trying to impose self-banishment.

@ Zeratul and others frustrated with high school: yes, it sucks. You are thrust into a kind of social cage, where the only friends available to you are those presented by the system. It opens up a little more when your university years come along; more people means more choices. Once out of school, the skyís the limit. You can go wherever you want and select your friends from any place you visit.

What you have to realize is that you never quite escape the clique. There will be those that will accept you, and those that wonít. Join the military, and youíll find more acceptance and understanding among other military folk. Become wealthy, and the poor will hate you for what they donít have, while your peers will expect you to snub those who do not meet their standards. One group will always disdain another for some very silly reasons. Itís an unfortunate reality, but even I, who keep mostly to myself, find myself disliked by those who donít know or understand me.

Hold out for as many years as is necessary. Once youíre free of the educational system, you will find your social options less restraining.

I will not give relationship advice. Iíve reached a state of loneliness where Iím almost willing to accept the affections of any femaleÖeven a pulse is optional. (Okay, totally a joke there. I still have some standards, and being alive is definitely one of them.)

Now, for those who donít understand what depression isÖI had a discussion with a psych nurse a few months back. There is a huge difference between having depression and a case of the blues. A case of the blues will come and go. Depression is a full-time gig. I am ALWAYS depressed. I have a suicidal thought once a day, even while on my meds. I have suicidal thoughts all day long when off them. I have no self-worth. My ego and pride have vacated the premises long ago. Telling someone to ďsnap out of itĒ is the most ridiculous advice Iíve ever heard. (I heard a nurse at the hospital say it once and I never spoke to her again, as I believed she had no business treating the mentally disabled.)

@Chaszmyr: Serious psychological issues require three things: medication, therapy, and you.

The meds need time to work. None works overnight, often taking up to six weeks for their full effect to be noticed. Trying it for a few weeks and then thinking theyíre not working is a mistake. Give them time. Also, there are many different medications out there. You need to try a few before you find the one (or ones) that works.

Therapy is the tough one. Iím now two years waiting for find a therapist. I asked a friend very recently one question: ďHow long am I expected to keep fighting before I surrender?Ē She panicked. A therapist would have a trained response. As far as I can see, the mental health system is overwhelmed. Itís up to you to fight for what should be yours: proper care. Meds will help stabilize you long enough to maintain that fight.

You: in the previous thread, dozens of ways to relieve the stress of mental illness were suggested. Working out, reading, writing, playing games, watching television, hanging with friends, watching moviesÖthe list of distractions goes on and on. What you need to be sure NOT to do is use these things as a complete escape. No matter what you use to relieve the stress, the problems will still be there in the end. These pressure valves are meant only to help you get by, not fix whatís broken. Try to find something you enjoy and engage in that for a while, then get back to fighting your issues. Letís face it: you can call these things escapes all you want, but can you really escape yourself?

OkayÖIím done for the moment. Stop ďmakingĒ me come back. :smallannoyed:

J_Muller
2007-05-26, 04:26 PM
Bor, you know we all miss you. You'll be back, and often.:smalltongue:


I suppose it's time for me to do some unloading of my own...

High School. Does not. Suck. Seriously, get over it. Compared to starving orphans in Africa, you're living in the lap of luxury. Your life could be so much worse than it is now. I mean, sure, it's not perfect. But nothing ever is. It's not going to be the best time of your life, but damn if it couldn't be ten times worse. Everyone makes adolescence out to be so horrible and depressing, but it's not.*

*this is what works best for me. I realize that not everyone can be helped in the same way. I'm sorry if I cause anyone even more grief.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-26, 04:41 PM
Bor, you know we all miss you. You'll be back, and often.:smalltongue:


I suppose it's time for me to do some unloading of my own...

High School. Does not. Suck. Seriously, get over it. Compared to starving orphans in Africa, you're living in the lap of luxury. Your life could be so much worse than it is now. I mean, sure, it's not perfect. But nothing ever is. It's not going to be the best time of your life, but damn if it couldn't be ten times worse. Everyone makes adolescence out to be so horrible and depressing, but it's not.

You know what sucks, is when you have a pain, and somebody tells you that it could be worse. Well, yes it could, these guys know it, but they still feel bad all the same, and all you are doing is spreading salt into the wound. Next time you have a thought like this, voice it, just don't type it. Now they feel bad about feeling bad, and then feel bad about that. It's a spiral of depression.

"Ah! I've been stabbed! I'm bleeding!"
-"Tbth, it's not that bad, you could've had your leg cut off."
"There's blood flowing from my chest, aren't you going to help me?!?"
-"No, because you still have both of your legs."
"But this could get worse! I could get infected or bleed to death."
-"Then you'll do so with both legs, so, I think you're still better off then some people."
* First Person Passes Out *

zeratul
2007-05-26, 04:50 PM
Bor, you know we all miss you. You'll be back, and often.:smalltongue:


I suppose it's time for me to do some unloading of my own...

High School. Does not. Suck. Seriously, get over it. Compared to starving orphans in Africa, you're living in the lap of luxury. Your life could be so much worse than it is now. I mean, sure, it's not perfect. But nothing ever is. It's not going to be the best time of your life, but damn if it couldn't be ten times worse. Everyone makes adolescence out to be so horrible and depressing, but it's not.

Oh my god people need to shut.the.hell.up. about the whole "At least your not an African orphan thing." Whos say some people don't percieve it as worse? Also we all know it's worse their, but seriously these stupid rants people do are incredibally annoying. It is depressing, and horrible, and it does suck, maybe not for you , but for lots of people it is. Why do you think the teen suicide rate is so high.

If your coming to ridducule the depressed people dont come to the thread full of 'em.

Hoggy
2007-05-26, 05:15 PM
The africa/indonesia/wherever thing irks me as well.

Of course they're worse off. I know that. Thing is, I also know I'm about a million miles away from being a saint, I'm only human and I'm self-centered. Oh, my bad. I'll try fix me asap.

ocato
2007-05-26, 05:24 PM
I think the thing that is being missed here is that this isn't walking down the street screaming "Waaah, I have problems, everyone pay attention to me!" This is a thread that is specifically made for people to vent about problems or depression. Coming here and telling people to buck up and can it is sort of missing the point. I mean, if we were at the VFW sitting around national heroes with missing limbs and breathing machines, and these guys were like "this girl doesn't like me, I'm super duper sad" then maybe I can see you getting a little miffed at a lack of outside awareness. But that isn't really the case. Yes, no matter who you are or what is going on, someone has it worse. But that does not mean that you cannot be upset about something in your life, or that it isn't sometimes a relief to vent to a caring, sympathetic ear or two. Sometimes having people go 'Yeah, that's rough, but she doesn't sound like she's worth the trouble' or something can make you feel better. So, let people vent. They aren't hurting you. No one has a gun to your head making you read it.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-26, 05:43 PM
I'm not a moderator, but I would like to point out, as others above have said, that there are some times that a broader perspective is quite helpful when you're feeling sad. As Bor has mentioned before, though, sometimes there's a sadness that simply cannot be helped by being told to "get over it." I think many people take offense at being told that because it's almost akin to accusing them of being henously self-centered or telling them that their own sadness isn't legitimate. Sorrow doesn't come with an off switch; especially that triggered by a tendency of the brain. To tell someone to "just get over it" even if their problem is minor in the big picture, rings of contempt.
I like to think that people come to this thread because they either have something on their minds that they want said, or they're looking for advice or sympathy. On the other side, you might come to this thread looking to give advice or support. I know I appreciated all the various people who have given me advice and sympathy in the past, even if I know that my issues aren't a patch on some of the stories I've heard on this thread.
Shall I feel guilty for being troubled about such a minor thing as a relationship? No.

Now that said, I have a definite sympathy for some of the troubles people have posted about high school problems; throughout elementary school, I wasn't exactly a pariah, but I was pretty unpopular. (With the benefit of hindsight, I see I wasn't exactly personable: something of a know-it-all and a smartass.) Short of drastically changing who you are, it may be difficult to change quickly the opinions of your peers, assuming you would even wish to do so.
I suppose my advice is to resist the temptation to withdraw into yourself and take solace in cynicism and sarcasm; you might have gained the verbal firepower to revenge yourself on your tormentors, but you lose the ability to gain friends. If having a conversation with you is to toss back a shot of vinegar, it won't be much of a suprise if no one makes the effort.
The ideal thing is to find people whom you like. Peers among peers, as it were.

J_Muller
2007-05-26, 06:20 PM
I'm not ridiculing anyone. And I'm not complaining either. I'm just pointing out that it's not as bad as people say it is.

All I'm saying here is that you should think more about how good your life is, and less about the comparatively few parts of your life that are bad. Because, frankly, why let those few parts get to you?

heretic
2007-05-26, 06:51 PM
While you're right, Muller, this was the wrong place to post as much.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-26, 06:55 PM
Really? This (

Bor, you know we all miss you. You'll be back, and often.:smalltongue:


I suppose it's time for me to do some unloading of my own...

High School. Does not. Suck. Seriously, get over it. Compared to starving orphans in Africa, you're living in the lap of luxury. Your life could be so much worse than it is now. I mean, sure, it's not perfect. But nothing ever is. It's not going to be the best time of your life, but damn if it couldn't be ten times worse. Everyone makes adolescence out to be so horrible and depressing, but it's not.) says that you lack the Empathy involved in this thread. You think that this hasn't occured to most people? Because it does, and because of it, they feel they cannot speak or get help about it. It's a problem that needs to be solved, and and complaining about complaints never help. Sure it could get worse. We all know that, what we want to do here is find ways to make it better, for it's a fool who plays it cool by making the whole world a little bit colder.

Now, no more of "It could be worse," and start with the "Here's what you can do to make it better."

J_Muller
2007-05-26, 07:04 PM
Really? This (
) says that you lack the Empathy involved in this thread. You think that this hasn't occured to most people? Because it does, and because of it, they feel they cannot speak or get help about it. It's a problem that needs to be solved, and and complaining about complaints never help. Sure it could get worse. We all know that, what we want to do here is find ways to make it better, for it's a fool who plays it cool by making the whole world a little bit colder.

Now, no more of "It could be worse," and start with the "Here's what you can do to make it better."

Who says I lack empathy? I've got tons of empathy. What I'm trying to say is that you'll be happier if you focus on the good in your life instead of the bad.

Vonriel
2007-05-26, 07:16 PM
Who says I lack empathy? I've got tons of empathy. What I'm trying to say is that you'll be happier if you focus on the good in your life instead of the bad.

If you have tons of empathy, start showing it. You are walking into a room full of people who are seeking ways to become "happier" and telling them the secret is just being happy! I mean, it's so simple, they should've realized it, right? And then they start getting down on themselves for not quite realizing that it was that simple, and then they feel even worse when they realize that it isn't that simple, but they wish it could be. And then they start to feel worse because they stopped trying to find ways to become happier, and started in on this chain. But then they start to feel worse because it's so simple, they should've realized it..

In case you haven't noticed, saying what you are is just starting a cycle of depression. It's not helping anyone, and is in fact counterproductive. Please, keep comments constructive, not destructive.

Ego Slayer
2007-05-26, 07:19 PM
What I'm trying to say is that you'll be happier if you focus on the good in your life instead of the bad.
If you can cure yourself by thinking this, than good for you... Hate to break it to you, but it doesn't really work like that. I, for one, can be so depressed the best things I have can go nothing to help me. No, that's not being ungrateful...

EDIT: Also, comparing ones self to those worse off can be even more depressing...



"Ah! I've been stabbed! I'm bleeding!"
-"Tbth, it's not that bad, you could've had your leg cut off."
"There's blood flowing from my chest, aren't you going to help me?!?"
-"No, because you still have both of your legs."
"But this could get worse! I could get infected or bleed to death."
-"Then you'll do so with both legs, so, I think you're still better off then some people."
* First Person Passes Out *
You make a very good point with this.

J_Muller
2007-05-26, 07:26 PM
You are walking into a room full of people who are seeking ways to become "happier" and telling them the secret is just being happy!

You're exactly right. That's precisely what I'm doing. Because you know what? I have no ideas otherwise. If I had anything better to offer, I'd be offering it. This is all I have at this point.

Now, you ask: Why speak up at all then? So I ask you: Why not?

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-26, 07:30 PM
You're exactly right. That's precisely what I'm doing. Because you know what? I have no ideas otherwise. If I had anything better to offer, I'd be offering it. This is all I have at this point.

Now, you ask: Why speak up at all then? So I ask you: Why not?

Because it's insensitive and will get you yelled at for the next page.

J_Muller
2007-05-26, 07:31 PM
Because it's insensitive and will get you yelled at for the next page.

The day I let potential negative reaction influence whether or not I take part in a discussion is the day they lower me into my grave.

Vonriel
2007-05-26, 07:33 PM
Now, you ask: Why speak up at all then? So I ask you: Why not?

Why not? You really have to ask? You honestly think it is better to walk into a room and make depressed people even more depressed than to sit back and let others try and help them?

zeratul
2007-05-26, 07:35 PM
The day I let potential negative reaction influence whether or not I take part in a discussion is the day they lower me into my grave.

We appreciate the fact that you want to make people feel better, but if you know you can't, and that it will neggatively affect people you shouldn't do it.

You shouldn't stop because people will yell at you, you should stop because it could neggatively affect people.

J_Muller
2007-05-26, 07:37 PM
Why not? You really have to ask? You honestly think it is better to walk into a room and make depressed people even more depressed than to sit back and let others try and help them?

Where the hell did you get the idea that was my intention? If I can't offer what works best for me, then I think the rest of you need to re-examine what you're doing here.

Vonriel
2007-05-26, 07:45 PM
Where the hell did you get the idea that was my intention? If I can't offer what works best for me, then I think the rest of you need to re-examine what you're doing here.

I got that idea from the fact that you said what you did without stating that that's what works best for you, without saying that you realize that not everyone can be helped in the same way, without even bothering to mention that you're sorry if you cause anyone even more grief. So sorry if I misunderstood the intentions behind the speech.

I think the problem is that the advice was given without thought to how it would be received, which is the worst kind of advice to give. That particular advice that may help you also happens to be the hardest for someone who is actually depressed to find useful. It will almost always make them feel worse than better, because they start to dwell on why they cannot just be happy.

J_Muller
2007-05-26, 07:48 PM
I got that idea from the fact that you said what you did without stating that that's what works best for you, without saying that you realize that not everyone can be helped in the same way, without even bothering to mention that you're sorry if you cause anyone even more grief. So sorry if I misunderstood the intentions behind the speech.


It's the Depression Thread. Those things are an assumed prefix here, if I'm not mistaken. In any event, they should be--hell, I'll just go edit them into my post if you really need to see them in writing.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-26, 07:50 PM
Okay, let's stop this before another DT gets locked. J, just, if you don't know how to help, just don't help. You don't give someone who's choking an Aspirin.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-26, 08:14 PM
Aye. If you want to continue this particular debate discussion or anything like it at all, I must ask you to do it via PM; it doesn't need to go here.

Update on my own situation;

I've written an email to my lady friend, but so far I haven't found the nerve to send it. I keep going back to rewrite it and reread it, and each time it doesn't really sound right. I know it'd be better to talk to her in person, but I'm not really sure I'd be able to get my point across as clearly. I think I'll call her again tonight.

Quincunx
2007-05-27, 05:59 AM
Guidelines for a respectful conversation
(and avoiding thread lock):

1: People have opinions and emotions. These feelings can be misguided, misanthropic, twisted, bleak, detached from reality, etc. etc. However, a person's right to hold a misguided opinion is never wrong. In fact, using the word 'wrong' to describe the opinion is a good way to ignite a flamewar--people can't always detach themselves from their opinions and emotions, especially in an feelings thread.

1.5: I've said this to a few people in PM already, over several months and a few boards. This time, I'm forsaking targeting it so that I can put it up in public.

2: Most people who post in this thread feel that they have a right to their depression. Discussing whether or not that is a right will almost certainly get us locked.

3: Sometimes, you will miscommunicate. In these threads where we deal with reality instead of jabbering about whatever floats to mind, the consequences of miscommunication are greater. Preview every post. Pause. Turn away for a minute or so. Bring the GitP forums up in another tab/window and log back in before replying, if you fear getting logged out if you take time to review yourself.

3.33: If you review yourself and can't figure out where the miscommunication is coming from, say so. Sometimes that jars loose the information from another person.

3.66: Learn to agree to disagree.

4: Exercise extreme care not to muddle fact with opinion, even if that's the way to win debates--this is not a debate. It's better to take one approach for the entire post and not risk having your post thrown out for rudeness. Stating your opinion as universal fact is offensive.

Chaszmyr
2007-05-27, 06:50 AM
Well I feel like unloading so here I go......

I hate most people at my school. They are mostly immature ass wholes obsessed with acting as "Ghetto" as possible, and with their looks. I try to just hang with my friends and avoid them, but my friends hang with them at school. I have always been very open about my geekiness, which hasn't helped me either. I get made fun of about once every ten minutes at school. I am depressed considerabelly more than I am happy. However I never tell anyone because I feel guilty about unloading it onto them. This has eroded my emotional state for a while now, not to mention my mental state. I also have a feer of unloading, and talking about my sadness, because people see me as a happy go-lucky person, and I fear they wont believe me.

That's all from me for now.

Unloading can be a real swine, particularly if you feel that no-one wants to listen or really cares. Even if there are some people out there who will listen, sometimes it's just hard to see them. I am terrible at opening up because for a long while no-one really gave a damn, so it's hard for the people I do know and who would listen because of it. There is very little my husband knows about me or my own illness because of it - it took him 10 years to realise what depression was.

I do know someone else with depression and the issue of being unable to unload - these days he keeps a Blog, and encouraged me to do the same. Having someplace to put how you feel might help a bit, you don't even have to make it public or even keep it on your PC.

Castaras
2007-05-27, 07:18 AM
Unloading can be a real swine, particularly if you feel that no-one wants to listen or really cares. Even if there are some people out there who will listen, sometimes it's just hard to see them. I am terrible at opening up because for a long while no-one really gave a damn, so it's hard for the people I do know and who would listen because of it. There is very little my husband knows about me or my own illness because of it - it took him 10 years to realise what depression was.

I do know someone else with depression and the issue of being unable to unload - these days he keeps a Blog, and encouraged me to do the same. Having someplace to put how you feel might help a bit, you don't even have to make it public or even keep it on your PC.

I'll second this. I keep a private(ish) blog which has helped me loads, including giving me a way to tell someone, without loading other people with my problems. Not only that, it helps me relax and stuff, and helps to make me feel more positive, meaning I can leave writing to my blog feeling positive.

happyturtle
2007-05-27, 07:25 AM
Hi... I'm new to this thread, not new to depression. I'm 35, and yeah, school sucked. I wouldn't relive my teenage years for anything, and I didn't even have to deal with bullies or any specific unpleasant incident.

I don't have anything of my own to complain about. My username is pretty accurate. I <heart> my antidepressants. They peeled away the extremes of panic/rage/crushing despair, etc, and let me just feel *normal*. I remember the first time I was actually able to be angry without it turning into rage. It didn't feel good at the time, but it was so empowering afterwards to know I had gotten legitimately angry for a good reason without going overboard.

Just know that there is hope. It can get better. It isn't easy, and it isn't quick, and most people (even people who love you and want the best for you) don't understand just how hard it is to get through every day. Depression is tough. But you are tough too--you have to be to have gotten this far.

zeratul
2007-05-27, 07:38 AM
Last night I talked to my friend (who has a much better reson to be messed up than I do) about the whole depression thing. Him being both the most empathetic person I know, and best annalasyst I know, already knew. Although it ended up with him saying I should go emo for the chicks, it was cool to unload, and I felt less guilty because we were both unloading.

Yiel
2007-05-27, 08:20 AM
The Great Skenardo:

I think in order to make sure things aren't taken the wrong way, that you should write down everything you want to say (use the email?) and read it to her over the phone. That way you should be able to communicate more clearly.

Words on a page can be easily misconstrued. My mother wrote a letter to my father from England while they were dating, and he thought it was a "Dear John" letter. He sold his ute and took the first flight to the UK with a ring... which could have been her intention. :smallamused:

To those suffering the mire of depression:

*hugs*

I'd offer advice here, but all I wanted when I was going through depression was someone to hold me while I just let all the pain pour out.

Ego Slayer
2007-05-28, 06:57 PM
Okay, got myself a little bit of a situation here...

My 12-year old cousin is coming up here for the summer from TX on the 9th of June (so I was just told). So, for a couple months she would be here...

Little history before I can get on with my ranting: She's adopted. My former aunt, and uncle are long divorced, and she lives with her "mom" in Texas, and my uncle lives here in Ohio. She's comes up here for the summer often. Now, my house is right next to my grandmother's, my uncle's life is a haphazard mess and he has been living there because he literally has no money to get himself an apartment. Soo... when my cousin comes up here, and my uncle has to work, guess where my she comes? My house.

Now, that would be all cool were it not for the fact that she's staying for a good two months. Last year sort of went like this: She'd come down to my house in the morning, and my uncle wasn't getting home until almost 9pm, sometimes... So, that's five days a week, for a whole day, for weeks. He somehow can not get it through his head that my family can not entertain, and watch his daughter all summer. I do

Might I add than I do like her a lot. She can be really fun, and there are countless inane things we've done together out of boredom. But I can not be inane for hours on end, every day. I don't know what I'm going to do about it this year. I need to be able to make spontaneous decisions to get away, read, write, draw, or just crash here for awhile during the day, like I usually do, without having someone looking over my looking over my shoulder, wondering where am I, what I'm doing, or that she's bored and wants me to do something with her. Now suddenly I'm going to have to figure out how to approach the subject with her. Supposedly my mom is going to be very strict with how many hours she can be here because she's works from home. I was hoping and praying that she wouldn't come this year, or at least only for a few weeks.

Having another person who wants to use the computer, be fed, be made not bored and there is an outright obligation to adapt to this, again. Her life in TX (which I won't get into) is almost a polar opposite to how my family is. There are expectations she has, and a bit of an attitude to go with it. I was hoping for a summer where I have absolutely nothing to do but exactly what I feel like doing... which, hasn't ever really happened before. This isn't going to make me any more depressed, but it's just more stress. And I've got a lot of other things I'm worrying about right now.

What am I gonna do. :smalleek:

I'm not looking, or expecting, answers... I just need to complain somewhere; thankyou you for reading, have a cookie or two.

*feels a little sick, slouches away*

ocato
2007-05-28, 07:03 PM
Well, I would consider some solo activity she would really get into. Turn her on to your favorite author, borrow an old snes or something, just maybe give her something to do that involves her being occupied. I know what it is like when you're a 'self entertained' person and you're forced to deal with a 'entertain me' type (my kid sister is an entertain me type, we had quite a childhood) but there isn't a whole lot I can offer as far as suggestions. Sounds rough, sorry to hear it.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-28, 07:18 PM
@The Ego Slayer

Congratulations, you've got yourself a surrogate li'l Sister! :smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, I can understand something of your plight; One's own time is often the most valuable posession one has. I think Ocato has a good suggestion with the books; if she has any wael that way, by all means take her regularly to the library so that she can load up.
I'm not certain what 'expectations' she has, but I submit that as a guest, she will have to realize that the rules around your own house (as well as a little extra courtesy) are likewise important. Perhaps your mother can explain that to her.
In any case, good luck, have fun, and stay mellow!

Logic
2007-05-28, 07:51 PM
Well, force your brother to entertain her. They are about the same age, so they should have something in common. Plus, she is his cousin too, why should taking care of her be solely your responsibility?

Ego Slayer
2007-05-28, 07:57 PM
I remember when she was here two summers ago she, my brother and I literally spent hours drawing all sorts of OotS style people.:smallbiggrin:

I dunno about the books... she read a little bit last year, but she's a rabid Anime fangirl now. She can't watch DVDs all day, though. >_<

My brother does as much as he can... she likes being with me a little more, I guess.

Mellow, right... calm... *deep breath* =P

ocato
2007-05-28, 08:01 PM
Depending on your local library, you might be able to show her a wealth of non-threatening (ie, fairly clean) manga if books aren't her bag. Drawing is another good idea, but I can see how she'd want someone around to talk to her while she did it or to draw for/with her. Just remember that you can always come vent at us if it gets to be too much (publicly or privately) and that killing children is technically illegal.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-28, 08:27 PM
Anime fangirl is one step away from Manga Fangirl, all you need is the books to cope with it. At less then ten bucks a pop, you could get her out of your hair. After reading all the manga, turn her onto great works of Novel. And if she's bad after that, unleash the Playstation on her.

On values: Corrupt her, it's the best thing you can do for her. Teach her the ways of the D20.

Ego Slayer
2007-05-28, 08:42 PM
She does read some Manga, but there's only so much the library has that she hasn't already read.

Heh... she's flipped through every D&D book I have already.:smalltongue:

Rex Idiotarum
2007-05-28, 08:48 PM
Then I say consul games, or proconsul games. Tell her to take over Gaul.

Gralamin
2007-05-28, 09:27 PM
This is my first time visiting here, and I've got a bit of a depressing problem.

My dog has cancer. We've had him for 6 years, and he is going to be put down on Saturday. This is the first time I've lost a pet, so its understandably hard. Any suggestions on getting through this?

Logic
2007-05-28, 09:45 PM
This is my first time visiting here, and I've got a bit of a depressing problem.

My dog has cancer. We've had him for 6 years, and he is going to be put down on Saturday. This is the first time I've lost a pet, so its understandably hard. Any suggestions on getting through this?

Do something special with him. Just go out and play. Have fun, and forget the worries. It will be basically a last goodbye party, but you will look back on it as possibly the fondest memory of your pet.

dogmac
2007-05-28, 10:20 PM
Yeah, I agree with Logic. Losing a pet is really hard, but make sure you get some wonderful memories these last few days. Spend time throwing the ball for him, and getting him some fresh mince and buy him a puppaccino (ok, maybe you don't have them there, they are frothed lactose free milk with liver sprinkles on top. My dogs love them) and some frosty paws.

Take lots of photos and get lots of cuddles. And remember how he was when he was not in pain, and know that will soon be the case again.

I feel for you, you are making one of the hardest decisions you can make.

Di

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-28, 10:23 PM
Liver...Sprinkles...:smalleek:

You must make an oath now, before man and Bahamut that you will never EVER allow the existence of Livier Sprinkles to become known to anyone else. EVER!

dogmac
2007-05-28, 10:24 PM
My dogs would kill me in my sleep if I did that! I cannot make such an oath.

Herbs and liver sprinkles. You get them at Cafe Bones in Sydney

:D

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-28, 10:26 PM
But think of the practical jokes, I beg you! Imagine your little brother grinning, a little halo over his head as he proudly hands you an ice cream sundae he made using his own little paws. You accept it a little suspiciously, but then you take a spoonful of vanilla ice cream with...Liver...Sprinkles...

dogmac
2007-05-28, 10:31 PM
Aaah, I do not have a little brother, and I am a vegetarian, so those fears are removed for me.

I don't actually keep liver sprinkles in the house. They only get these when I go to Cafe Bones with them (yes, it does exist. http://www.cafebones.com.au)

I do homemade frosty paws sometimes though.

And anyway, how is liver sprinkles worse than garlic powder?

B-Man
2007-05-29, 06:07 AM
Not entirely sure if this fits here, but I just have to get this off my chest.

I am afraid to graduate. I don't really know why, but I don't think that I'm ready for the real world. I love this sheltered world of 'free cable internet', 'free bed', and 'free food' (I know that there is no such thing as 'free' in the real world). My grades have been slipping and I don't know why I cannot concentrate on any of my school work. My brain has been permanently turned off, it seems.

And in a second note:

My younger sister has just moved out and I can't help but think that I was one the many 'reasons' that she left. We never got along and she was always challenging my mum's authority. I believe the final straw was when my step-father-to-be answered the phone to some bloke that she was dating again (she had a really rough relationship with this bloke last year and she's back together with him) and he told him to stop controlling my sister's mind. She was furious with that comment. I cannot understand her logic. She was in tears last year because of this bloke and now back with him. She still attends my school, but she will not speak to me in the hallways.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-29, 09:08 AM
@ B-Man
Yeah, leaving the warm comfortable womb of univeristy life can be pretty scary. Depending on your major, it might seem easy or hard to find a job right off.
But the thing is, you knew this was coming the first day you stepped into one of those classrooms. The purpose of attending college was to learn something you can apply 'out there,' am I right?
You may not feel ready for the responsibilities, but you can take things slowly at first. If you can already manage your own finances, then you're a long step towards stable independence. Don't worry; as long as you don't get paralyzed by fear, I'm sure you'll do fine.
As to school work; yeah, it happens. The real thing is to get set up some good study habits. If you have a friend so inclined, you can tuck yourselves away with all your books and things in the lub or in a fast food place and study there, where there's no free internet or free bed to distract you. Gotta concentrate! The last hundred feet of a race are no less important just because they're at the end!

As to sistery things, Unfortunately very few people can accept advice they don't want to hear when it comes to matters of the heart (and other vaguely-connected organs). It takes a lot of trust to do it, and she might not feel like she has that trust in you or your family. I can't really offer you advice on mending such a relationship, as your approach will depend on so many things, but...I would see if you can't mend a few bridges. She may be going through a tough time in her life, so make sure she knows that she can count on you to help, if she needs it.

Good luck.

Druid_lord
2007-05-29, 09:37 AM
Hello! I am just coming off of a bout of depression and an as of yet undiagnosed mental disease.(It's either ADHD or bipolar, the symptoms of the two are almost identical) I still sometimes have pretty random mood swings. I am still getting over a pretty bad relationship I was in recently. The girl I was with was very time consuming(she would literally start to cry if I didn't talk to her for three hours a night) And she had me confusing lust with love in no time. As a result I still can't trust my emotions. Also she has been stringing along a lot of my friends the same way. She will say she loves that person, break up with him but still "love " him and also "love her new boyfriend. She ended up really hurting a good friends. I have managed to remain on somewhat friendly terms with her, being the only one who broke up with her, and therefore slightly less damaged. She fells wrthless if she is not in a relationship. She also gets physical way too fast. I am 15 and she was 13, and she intiated a very physical relationhsip with me. For insert diety of choice here 's sake she is 13 and has already lost her virginity (not to me thankfully) Any ideas on how to deal with her or my current emoitnal problems and the stress that triggered my dpression in the first place?

Closet_Skeleton
2007-05-29, 09:45 AM
Hello! I am just coming off of a bout of depression and an as of yet undiagnosed mental disease.(It's either ADHD or bipolar, the symptoms of the two are almost identical) I still sometimes have pretty random mood swings. I am still getting over a pretty bad relationship I was in recently. The girl I was with was very time consuming(she would literally start to cry if I didn't talk to her for three hours a night) And she had me confusing lust with love in no time. As a result I still can't trust my emotions. Also she has been stringing along a lot of my friends the same way. She will say she loves that person, break up with him but still "love " him and also "love her new boyfriend. She ended up really hurting a good friends. I have managed to remain on somewhat friendly terms with her, being the only one who broke up with her, and therefore slightly less damaged. She fells wrthless if she is not in a relationship. She also gets physical way too fast. I am 15 and she was 13, and she intiated a very physical relationhsip with me. For insert diety of choice here 's sake she is 13 and has already lost her virginity (not to me thankfully) Any ideas on how to deal with her or my current emoitnal problems and the stress that triggered my dpression in the first place?

I would suggest getting serious help. If that girl is really as bad as you make her sound but you still want to be her friend and help her then you'll have to do a lot of work.

If you could make someone grow up in an instant then I wouldn't have my own problems.

Druid_lord
2007-05-29, 09:54 AM
I'm already in therapy, but one of the main problems is i think the girl maybe a sex addict, which means i cant really do anything to help, but i feel like i just need to try at least.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-29, 10:01 AM
@Druidlord
Hmmm. Well, I certainly think it's noble that you want to help her, even after she strung you and your friends along, but I submit that helping her is going to be very, very difficult, even assuming she wants to be helped, or even sees her lifestyle as a problem. Any idea on the attitude her parents have towards their daughter's ways?

Druid_lord
2007-05-29, 10:12 AM
They work all the time, which adds to the attention factor, and they are trying somewhat to restrict her activites, but they never really know whats going on.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-29, 10:22 AM
Dang. Well, I'm not really sure what advice I can give. If she has friends other than romantic partners whom you trust to look out for her, you might try talking to them; you might be able to work things out so that she gets some of the attention she wants without it necessarily being sexual in nature. See if that satisfies her, I guess. If not, then there may be deeper issues involved here.

Good luck.

Druid_lord
2007-05-29, 10:45 AM
The antention has to be of a romantic nature with her for some reason. She is able to wrap people around her finger and she keeps sucking them back in. She has almost sucked me back in a couple of times, which is why i make sure never to be alone with her anymore.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-29, 10:58 AM
Well, at her age, This old Fogey would agree that's a significant problem. The problem is, how to try and help tactfully? I assume you're against the idea of marching up to her parents with a full account of her activities, but really, if anyone is in a position to help, it should be them. If you've ever met them before (hopefully you have), then you might consider writing them a letter or an email, perhaps saying that you and her various friends are concerned about the life she's living, and that you think she needs some help.

Exactly how much you would say is something only you can decide, and I doubt anyone will be particularly happy you did so, at first. That's the question you have to decide; would interfering be the right thing to do?
If the answer is yes, then I would recommend writing that letter, or talking to them.

Druid_lord
2007-05-29, 11:40 AM
I doubt interfering would work, becuase then I would lose her trust. Which is something I need in order to help her. I think her parent already know somethings, because she has to leaver her bedromm door open now and every so often, her parents make her take a rbeak from a boy, so it's a step in the right direction. And her un romantically involved firends probally cant help and most have thier own problems. I think I can help her current boyfriend. He keeps getting hurt by her, and she keeps confusing him about love. I believe I can help him break away.

B-Man
2007-05-29, 11:49 AM
Yeah, leaving the warm comfortable womb of univeristy life can be pretty scary. Depending on your major, it might seem easy or hard to find a job right off.
But the thing is, you knew this was coming the first day you stepped into one of those classrooms. The purpose of attending college was to learn something you can apply 'out there,' am I right?
You may not feel ready for the responsibilities, but you can take things slowly at first. If you can already manage your own finances, then you're a long step towards stable independence. Don't worry; as long as you don't get paralyzed by fear, I'm sure you'll do fine.
As to school work; yeah, it happens. The real thing is to get set up some good study habits. If you have a friend so inclined, you can tuck yourselves away with all your books and things in the lub or in a fast food place and study there, where there's no free internet or free bed to distract you. Gotta concentrate! The last hundred feet of a race are no less important just because they're at the end!
I'm still in high school right now. I'm afraid of moving out of the house to Toronto to attend college. As it stands right now, I can only afford living for about 3 weeks (even with the student loan, that's pretty much gone with all of my rented material for the course). I'm definitely not ready for the real world (or it's not ready for me... :smalltongue: ).


As to sistery things, Unfortunately very few people can accept advice they don't want to hear when it comes to matters of the heart (and other vaguely-connected organs). It takes a lot of trust to do it, and she might not feel like she has that trust in you or your family. I can't really offer you advice on mending such a relationship, as your approach will depend on so many things, but...I would see if you can't mend a few bridges. She may be going through a tough time in her life, so make sure she knows that she can count on you to help, if she needs it.

Good luck.
She's dug her own grave. Although this might sound a smidgen cruel, but I'm banking on that she won't make it past the first two months with the way that she's living right now. I believe that she doesn't understand the value of a dolar yet. She creates strife with any one just for the sake of being in a fight.

I really don't understand that girl.

Ceska
2007-05-29, 10:35 PM
@Druid Lord: God, the girl's what, thirteen? And she's already trying to get power over men via sex? People that age don't seem ready for relationships to me, or at least I never heard of one work out. That also is why I decided to not even care before both parties are at least fourteen. But then they still were childish and stupid and not ready for relationships, thus I waited on... I can't say much besides, tell her parents. Lose her or not, she sounds like a ***** and should be told to stop playing with people's feelings.


@B-Man: I understand exactly what you mean. It's like you know what you should do, but now that you used to it you don't want to anymore. You don't want to take responsibility but rather stay the child. But seeing how I'm still in highschool myself, I guess I can't give much of an advice here. Hah, you can't turn your brain off, just keep it on something else.

To the sistery thing, I wouldn't go into that whole "It's her own fault" thing. Of course it is if she screws up and doesn't know how to work with money, but that doesn't mean you can't try to help her. I simply know too many who break on a system based on money, some of them made a wrong decision when they were wrong and never got out of it again. Of course you don't understand her, but you don't have to understand a person to be there for the person. Simply being here to talk and not to discuss is enough.



As to myself, here's a text from last night. Great, isn't it. First I write it, can't do anything with it, and when it's done I feel like it is a stepchild I'd like to throw away and start to ridicule my own texts. Thus I'll stop to write now.

Seeing as how the forumís down just when I want to write and I canít sleep, again, I guess its best I do it like this and write it down now. Iíve taken a home exercises book in English from eighth grade. It was the first I found and yet it feels strange, seeing as how it is in the language I wanted to write. Coincidence or not, it feels like the world is a satire, and not the witty sarcastic kind, no, more of the biting dark kind that hurts you intentionally. But then again, it simply could be me, seeing as how I seem to like doing that. Not the physical, the mental kind of pain, mind you. Iím materialistic in my thought and yet I part my mind and my body. I know exactly well, hurting myself doesnít do anything to me. So I rather go into hurting my psyche. How I do that? Simply by failing myself. Iíve run in so many walls that I got to like the feeling of it. Iím good at procrastinating, I always was, but I still did work if I wanted to. Now I simply donít want to, or better, I rather donít as it makes me feel better, easier, if I donít and have something to feel bad about. To say it clear, my life is too easy. I donít like that. Thus I create harder ways. I go through walls rather than through doors I see, because it feels better to run into a wall I decided to go through than do the logical thing, to know it was my way, even if it failed. I also do things I know better not to do simply because I like having the feeling I screwed up and it was my fault. To elaborate, hereís a story. I went to a discussion, an after school excursion, and walked there instead of taking the bus, which took me an hour. After some time my teacher told me my shoelace was open. I answered him ďWell, itís like that since half an hour. I figured, since I havenít fallen yet, I will not now either. Should I, itís my own fault.Ē I know the logic is flawed, I did then, but that doesnít keep me from doing this instead of taking the better way. I rather did it, in hope to fall.

I know Iím either painfully aware, or painfully unaware of my situation. But either way, itís painful. I do things to keep my mind off, but they donít help, they donít go to the root of my problems, which is a different one, they expand them. I donít have such a thing as light-heartedness. It doesnít matter what, Iíll always worry about it, and the worst, I like worrying. Oftentimes I dream of sitting in the sun, looking into the sky up to the clouds and do nothing, and every time the sky darkens when the clouds hide the sun. Now Iím not sure how much my dreams mean, but it feels like something to me. Everywhere I go, I take the same shadow, the same heavy heartedness with me. And I feel my happiness is only temporarily, lost the moment I become aware it will not last, oftentimes before I even can feel really happy, before it even happens. Itís like I look into a face and already see it dead. I try, but I canít turn my mind off. It will return, sooner or later, but at least when I try to sleep. It feels like I hear a million screams of death every second, as if every breath I take burns into my heart. And I love it, for it feels to be the only feeling I truly know. [Color=White]God that sounded emo. Damn you English language, it would sound strange but not that bad in German. [/Color=White]

I also love to contradict myself. Itís like something inside me looks down on me and laughs. Iím like a fish on the ground, put there by a cruel human, who now points at me and laughs. When I look into the humanís face, it is mine. I often feel like Iím born into the wrong time, even the wrong species, but this is incorrect. I know perfectly well Iíd react way the same in any time, anywhere. I feel like a wild animal, trapped inside a cage and yet unsure if it should flee or not. To elaborate a bit, I see everything but a stable loving relationship as shallow, and yet I donít want one as I would lose my freedom. I donít want kids, but I feel I have no other purpose than to produce them. I want to grow up and work for myself, but I hate the picture I paint, a life which I would hate. I sometimes feel like I canít laugh at othersí pain, and thus I laugh at my own. So often I want my anger to be free, to simply destroy mindlessly, run amok with a gun or a sword and kill everything in my sight, and yet I donít want to hurt anybody. I feel I have no right to. Thus I hurt myself, as it is the only person I hold the right to, the only right I possess.

sktarq
2007-05-30, 02:33 PM
As to myself,.......Thus I hurt myself, as it is the only person I hold the right to, the only right I possess.

Not exactly how I'd express it but WOW am I familiar with that one. And yes it sounds better in German (I once had a German GF translate part of my diary-it turned out much better that way)

One thing you may want to look at is if this "wanting to take the hard way" isn't just "terrified of failure" in a particularly subtle guise. Because if you take the hard way and fail you can always blame your more challenging choice...and then convince yourself you didn't REALLY fail...you just aimed too high.

As for help...not really sure...I really doubt the whole "turn off you brain" thing has ever worked for you but try meditation...Really it does work and can get you more complete awarness of your problem.Another idea is to have to do things well for someone outside yourself....when you are taking the easier route on another behalf it can put off that part of you that wants to take the hard way. As for the whole happiness thing I'd actually recomend that you start by looking for beauty in normal everyday life. Look around like you would walking into the second to last gallery at an art museum. An realize it's transience is part of its beauty. You may want to study some Japanesse haiku's too as they are really good for the grasping transient beauty theme-they even have a word for it-but I'll be damned if I know it.

And with the whole feeling like you are part of some other kind of being but not. I have zero clue how to help you on that one-I've just gotten to the point I take it as a given in my life and ask "Well I'm here, now what do I do?"
As for the stable loving relationships-Just because something isn't gold doesn't mean it doesn't have value...and for the not wantting that realising you have lost control of your own emotions and someone else does is a terrifing part of being head over heals in love....But you know I still think it's worth it....more terrifing than skydiving but still worth it.

With the anger-try either taking it out with your paints (you may even like the results more) or perhaps martial arts....It is amazing how punching a red leather flap drains you aggression to the world. (Personally I blame neuropeptides)

To Conclude it can be a serious problem, what you are dealling with. I totally bombed my Uni applications years ago because of this. It can get messy. I doubt that anyone here recomending it would get you to see professional help because you realize you have a problem but don't really see youself as sick (Totally WAGing it here-but the story implys it). I might recomend travel and trying LOTS and LOTS of new things to see if you can find anything that grabs you hard enough that you want to make it work period...something where failure would not be acceptable no matter what. I won't say you'll ever find that but searching would be something I'd recomend-maybe in Uni.

Khantalas
2007-05-31, 07:09 AM
*bunch of stuff*

Hmm... no one? Anyone? Please?

DarkLightDragon
2007-05-31, 08:20 AM
Wow, it's easy to get depressed when bored!

Anyway, I had a REALLY scary dream a couple of days ago. Scary enough to make me go crying to mummy at age 15.......... :smallredface:

Parents can be a pain in the rear at times, but they can also be a huge comfort when you need them. Mummy helped me feel better about it. :smallsmile:

Makes me feel warm and fuzzy and "I love you mum!" inside when I think about this (it just got slightly lessened by mum mentioning homework as I was about to post this, but I still feel like that).

Anyway, it's a personal dream, so I'm not going to share it. But it made me decide that it would be a good idea to go on meds (remember my earlier post about the possibility of taking them?).

I just thought a thought just then. Why am I posting this if I don't feel comfortable talking about it or don't want too many comments on it? I hope I'm not turning into one of those people who try to hog attention all the time! But I don't want... Gah! Circle!

This is one of those times where I confuse myself a great deal and want to whack my head against something...

Mr. Moon
2007-05-31, 08:40 PM
Gah, I need to unload.

First off, about one of my freinds.

We met when we were kids in a daycamp. Years later, we ended up in the same high-school. We hung out, and eventualy, he asked me out. I told him kindly that I didn't want him to be my boyfreind, and he stopped bringing it up.

Untill the next year.

After that, he'd ask me that all the time, even though I made it clear to him and every ****ing one else in the school that I do NOT want a boyfreind! He kept following around, and eventualy, he told me he ***ing loved me! After he had the guts to say something that made me cry so hard, I had to go home from school! Who did he think he was, doing something like that?!

So I ignored him. I was good at it. He would try to get me to talk to him, but I never said a word. He kept following me around, trying to get me to talk to him, and not spending a ****ing second thinking about how much he'd hurt me. He just kept going "Oh, I'm sorry I got you banned," ((Around then, I was on a forum where I admited to being involved with something he did that was largely against the rules.)) "Oh, why won't you talk to me?" "Oh, I'm so lonely!" "Oh, I love you!" If he ****ing loved me, why didn't he actualy sit down and think about what he could have possibly ****ing told me that would make me get so ****ing pissed off? He serriously hurt me, and couldn't figure out how! He's supposed to be smart! If he'd asked any of our friends, they would have told him that they saw me sitting outside the lybrary, crying so ****ing hard that I couldn't stop!

But eventualy, I realized, I was hurting my self, by ignoring him. I wanted to tell him that I didn't want to be his freind, but I never figured out how.

Untill one day, when he bought me a rose. It hurt so much to look at it. I tracked him down, and delivered the news.

Then he went all emo. He stopped grooming himself, he stopped talking to me, he couldn't even look at me. If anything, I only felt worse. That's not ****ing fair! He really hurts me, and has no idea how, and then goes and makes me feel horrible!

Now it's being a few months. Eventualy, we became friends again. Sort of. I could hang out and laugh with him, as long as our freinds were there to, but it was never the same.

Now, I've realized what an ******* he is. I can't even get him to show me how to plug in a ****ing scanner, let alone talk to me with out acting like some Tech Crew DemiGod.

And he bounced back pretty quick, to. Just a few weeks later, it turns out he was dating one of my other close freinds. Oh, I'm still freinds with her, but I can't get over what a jerk he is.

... Now I can't remeber the other two things I was pissed off about. Oh well, it's good to get this off my chest.

The Great Skenardo
2007-05-31, 08:53 PM
@Moon Called
Sounds like you need to stay away from this boy, then. I agree that you probably should have made it clear you didn't want his company earlier, but from what you say, it sounds as if he's prone to dramatics anyways. I think I kinda understand where he's at, though; If he's of an age similar to your own, then it sounds like he's just now dealing with all kinds of new emotional stuff that he didn't have to worry about before, and he made the common mistake of taking the ardors of a first crush to be irresistable love, consequently sinking into self-pity when his hopes were let down. Sounds to me like he has a lot of maturing to do, and often that takes time.
If you're certain within your own mind that you're being very mature about all of this (And you have to be very sure), then I think you might need to give him time to approach things the same way. See if he becomes agreeable later on, and if you can be friends.
As a footnote, I don't think you should feel guilty about him at all; if you made it clear you weren't romantically interested from the beginning, then he's got only the rose-tinted glasses he wears to blame.

@DLD
Yeah, deciding to take meds? It's a big step, and I'd believe it takes a dream of great potency to finally tip you across the line. I'm not professionally qualified to tell you about Meds one way or another, so I'll have to settle for wishing you luck. If you're looking for a good head-whacking surface, I recommend a mattress; it's solid enough so that you feel it, but soft enough so that you won't damage or bruise yourself :smallwink:

DarkLightDragon
2007-06-01, 09:54 AM
@DLD
Yeah, deciding to take meds? It's a big step, and I'd believe it takes a dream of great potency to finally tip you across the line. I'm not professionally qualified to tell you about Meds one way or another, so I'll have to settle for wishing you luck. If you're looking for a good head-whacking surface, I recommend a mattress; it's solid enough so that you feel it, but soft enough so that you won't damage or bruise yourself :smallwink: Thanks for that, it made me feel better about my last post. I haven't actually decided for sure, but after a dream like the one I had (*twitch*) its seeming pretty likely. Of course, I'll be wanting to know the side effects and stuff like that first.

smellie_hippie
2007-06-01, 12:43 PM
Hmm... no one? Anyone? Please?

Alright Khantalas. You put out quite a bit there, and please don't think that you were overlooked. You posted like 3rd on the list after the thread had just been recreated... and you know how people are about going back pages...

As for finding purpose and meaning in your life? That's a pretty difficult task for someone else to give you. You admitted that you were spoiled rotten, and have a long history of outstanding academic acheivements with little/no effort. Maybe the best thing is to realise that the pedestal people have put you on (whether you asked them to or not) is a little high. Sorry for the bump at the bottom, but with that harsh reality, you may find your motivation.

Nobody can give that to you. Despite that fact that it would be much easier if someone did.... you might find that it didn't suit you. It also sounds like you are well past the point of wanting to hear "suggestions that don't work", as it would just add to your feeling low. There must be some things that interest you... even if they seem to have no meaning.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-01, 01:15 PM
can the world explode or something please?

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-01, 01:25 PM
Sorry, no world-explody yet, finishing Highschool is the best thing ever. Get a congrats from my family, have a few Jobs that I'd really like to work at contact me, or me contacting them, and for some reason, I feel extraordinary. In weird ways.

Trust me, all you troubled teens who hope high school should die, don't fret for it'll be over before you know it, and when it is, you can say "Screw you!" to all your classmates that you'll see again next year, at Community Collage.

Hate to actually be happy in the Depression thread, but as a previous poster here, I just wanted to say, "Things can get better."

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-01, 01:54 PM
pfff, yeah they all say that.....................

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-01, 02:07 PM
Yes, they do. Why, it may be because it's true. I know, why don't you graduate and tell me if you don't feel the Results.Have the courage to change things, be honest with what you want, and things can go far.

LurkerinthePlaygnd
2007-06-01, 07:31 PM
Khantalas, to echo Hippie, do the things you can the best that you can. I think there is, for most people, no single purpose in life. We fulfill many roles at once. Just keep doing the "next right thing" and more will be revealed. I still wonder if there's any great purpose for my own life and I'm nearing 40 years old. One thing I have learned in the past few years is to appreciate the life I do have. That is not to say to give up on any dreams you may have or have had, but instead try to be grateful for what you have accomplished and build upon them.

I think, as a society of consumers, especially here in the U.S., we have learned to expect instant gratification in all aspects of our lives, and when things don't happen fast enough, we get feelings of inadequacy, or emptiness. We live in such a fast paced world that sometimes we need to remember that what is worth having is worth waiting for and worth working hard for.

Beware the void. It can suck you in. In my case, I turned to drugs and alcohol to fill the void, which I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy. I do recommend trying to fill the void with action of some kind: mow the lawn, read a book, take a bike ride, make a scrapbook, annoy your little sister, wash the dishes, go out in the back yard and start screaming (don't do this late at night unless you are prepared to deal with authorities, (don't ask)). Anyway, just do something; action fills the void no matter how mindless. And if you happen to accomplish something positive with the action, so much the better.

Can't help much with the study habits, as I never had any myself, but it sounds as if you've got a handle on that yourself. As for socialization, some, like myself, just prefer the company of themselves, and that's ok. Just keep yourself open for opportunities and they will present themselves.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-02, 05:42 AM
Yes, they do. Why, it may be because it's true. I know, why don't you graduate and tell me if you don't feel the Results.Have the courage to change things, be honest with what you want, and things can go far.

yeah thenks, please give me the ticket for flight 1336,graduating
but first of all this isnt my last year at school
second : it looks like maybe I have to go to another school becouse of my french and latin grades(its my first year and half way into it we switched theories)
and third ......iīm just sad, so please leave with your happy optimistic vieuw of life , I mean this is the depression thread right?

Glaivemaster
2007-06-02, 05:57 AM
yeah thenks, please give me the ticket for flight 1336,graduating
but first of all this isnt my last year at school
second : it looks like maybe I have to go to another school becouse of my french and latin grades(its my first year and half way into it we switched theories)
and third ......iīm just sad, so please leave with your happy optimistic vieuw of life , I mean this is the depression thread right?

Why don't you tell us what the problem is, and then perhaps we can help? Unless I'm being very unobservant (in which case I apologise) you haven't, and that makes it hard to help you. I'm not sure you want help, but I know we (or I, at least) would like to try

If the problem is just high school, then my best advice is the same as Rex's, really. The best thing to do is to wait it out, and look to the future, when you're finally free

If it's something more specific, well, like I said...care to share?

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-02, 07:50 AM
yeah thenks, please give me the ticket for flight 1336,graduating
but first of all this isnt my last year at school
second : it looks like maybe I have to go to another school becouse of my french and latin grades(its my first year and half way into it we switched theories)
and third ......iīm just sad, so please leave with your happy optimistic vieuw of life , I mean this is the depression thread right?
Optimistic? Hm... I've been called Cynical, uncaring, Pessimistic, Jackass, and many things along that line, but never Optimistic.

School Switches are always hard, but if you look around, you'll find people of interest all around you. When I went into fifth grade, I went from being a Catholic School kid, one with classes so small, you were with the same exact kids every year, to Public school, which not only had multiple teachers and classes for a grade, but teams which you never meet either.

Well, you think a school switch would've effected me, but I don't know. Almost immediately, I met my current best friend and within a year, I have my entire group just chilling with me at lunch. Trust me, you may miss your friends, but your new ones will be fun to hang around as well.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-02, 10:22 AM
yeah well, I havent told ya yet, so iīl explain :
first off all , the way my grades are standing. I am not going to pas to next year. And school ends like end june,maybe begin july.
And if I stay a grade there will be even more age diffrence(I am currently one of the oldest kids in class), and I am emotionally much more mature then some of my classmates already.
and about transferring to another school rex : you are probably right I will make new friends and that stuff, but there is another problem,but that is to complicated to explain for me right now.

(and rex,I know you are crazy, but I am more crazy then you are, so now I get milk and cookies,yay)

and glaivemaster, I could only wish waiting would do the trick, but it wouldnt.:smallfrown:

and I have more to say but my computer time is up(becouse I need to read a book for school, so maybe I can post more later)

Glaivemaster
2007-06-02, 01:59 PM
You need to study harder? What are you doing here? Leave, now. Study :smalltongue:

Seriously, a couple of months of studying really hard to get your grades up sounds like a good plan, if you think you can do it. And I'm sure that you can

ocato
2007-06-02, 03:13 PM
Sorry, no world-explody yet, finishing Highschool is the best thing ever. Get a congrats from my family, have a few Jobs that I'd really like to work at contact me, or me contacting them, and for some reason, I feel extraordinary. In weird ways.

Trust me, all you troubled teens who hope high school should die, don't fret for it'll be over before you know it, and when it is, you can say "Screw you!" to all your classmates that you'll see again next year, at Community Collage.

Hate to actually be happy in the Depression thread, but as a previous poster here, I just wanted to say, "Things can get better."

Let me tell you all something that will depress the ever living crap out of you.

In five years, you will look back at high school and go 'man, those were the good old days.'

Unless you go to 'real' college, then maybe not. But it's pretty much downhill from there. Sorry.:smallwink:

Closet_Skeleton
2007-06-02, 05:49 PM
Would it be off-topic to talk about anger in this thread?

Hoggy
2007-06-02, 08:33 PM
Ocato: You make me feel so much better, really you do. If I can't wait to get out of school now and this is the 'good' bit... I don't even want to think about the future anymore. headpain.

*slaps*

:smalltongue:

C_S: Probably not. I see this as more of a general angst/negative feeling/depression thread than just a depression thread. Iunno though, not mine to say.

Dallas-Dakota: Me and you both, buddy. I can't really say a lot that Glaivemaster didn't say - just try and buckle down, revise, and work your ass off for a bit. Then you can have a break afterwards, and with any luck, it'll all turn out dandy.

Alternativly, I bet you £50 you pass and I don't.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-02, 08:52 PM
Let me tell you all something that will depress the ever living crap out of you.

In five years, you will look back at high school and go 'man, those were the good old days.'

Unless you go to 'real' college, then maybe not. But it's pretty much downhill from there. Sorry.:smallwink:

In five years, if I say that, someone has to come by with a shotgun and take me out.

I doubt it, though.

Totally Guy
2007-06-03, 02:46 AM
I suspect that my youngest brother is cutting himself on purpose I don't think it's accidental because it looks so much worse. I mean I've cut myself before but never on purpose and it's always healed properly. Also he doesn't generally do the washing up at all because we've got a dishwasher, he doesn't do any woodwork lessons, he does use paper (as pretty much everyone uses paper) but paper cuts don't look like that and he doesn't cook anything complicated enough to start chopping vegetables. He says he knows a cat with a bad temper but when we had a cat my scratches healed better.

But maybe it's because he doesn't use knives very often he more prone to accidents when he does come across them. Maybe his poor diet lets him down, healingwise, (he spends all his time at an internet cafe winning gaming tournaments and often comes home with prize money) and as such I don't think he eats properly. He's very popular there, I don't have that many friends, and on Monday I'm moving to Leeds and won't have any friends for a good couple of months again.

I don't understand how I can help him out. Something's not right.

Glaivemaster
2007-06-03, 03:41 AM
*gasp* You're moving to Leeds. That's almost near where I am...Well, near where I'm near. Near my brother at least

Anyway, as regards your younger brother, it might be best if you approach him about it, tell him you're worried, ask if there's anything you can do to help him. If you don't think you can approach him like this, or that he wouldn't open up to you, it might be better to share your concerns with your parents, and get them to talk to him about it. Simply talking about why he does it, and offering to help him, might be enough to make him stop, and I'm sure you're willing to help anyway

Of course, if he isn't actually harming himself, I'm sure he'll still appreciate the thought that you care

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-03, 03:49 AM
Ocato: You make me feel so much better, really you do. If I can't wait to get out of school now and this is the 'good' bit... I don't even want to think about the future anymore. headpain.

*slaps*

:smalltongue:

C_S: Probably not. I see this as more of a general angst/negative feeling/depression thread than just a depression thread. Iunno though, not mine to say.

Dallas-Dakota: Me and you both, buddy. I can't really say a lot that Glaivemaster didn't say - just try and buckle down, revise, and work your ass off for a bit. Then you can have a break afterwards, and with any luck, it'll all turn out dandy.

Alternativly, I bet you £50 you pass and I don't.

yeah, I know, but its hard for me while trying/keeping a life ya know.
and what are your grades then?
becouse if it is : 10-10-10-10- I will gladly accept,when does your school term end, and will you/me pay over paypal?
lol

ocato : in five years, if I pass each year, I will be in my last year doing relaxing allot, becouse the exams would be last week for the last years.......

Hoggy
2007-06-03, 05:46 AM
yeah, I know, but its hard for me while trying/keeping a life ya know.

And it's partially the fault that I have one that makes my grades low, because I wasn't concentrating on them. :smallwink:


and what are your grades then?

Your american system confuses me. As of when I went into my exams, my grades were:
E in Maths (Predicted A)
D in History (Predicted A)
D in English Literature (Predicted A)
A in Psychology (Predicted B)
I have no idea hwo to convert those to your American system, unfortunately. School term ends in... 12 days. I don't have a card so it'd be cash :smalltongue:

Anyways, try, y'know... giving up your life for a bit. It'll suck in the short run, but it'll get those grades for you.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-03, 07:18 AM
And it's partially the fault that I have one that makes my grades low, because I wasn't concentrating on them. :smallwink:



Your american system confuses me. As of when I went into my exams, my grades were:
E in Maths (Predicted A)
D in History (Predicted A)
D in English Literature (Predicted A)
A in Psychology (Predicted B)
I have no idea hwo to convert those to your American system, unfortunately. School term ends in... 12 days. I don't have a card so it'd be cash :smalltongue:

Anyways, try, y'know... giving up your life for a bit. It'll suck in the short run, but it'll get those grades for you.

that'd be damn rigt that my american system confuses you, becouse I dont even live in america for starters, I live in europe, in the Netherlands.
we work with numbers here 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. 1 being the lowest you can get, 10 the highest.....
so I dont use an american system heheh
oh ok, where do you live.....maybe we can set up a little meeting of gitp people..........

edit : i'm not having exams, just a final test week which will count heavy on my final grades.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-03, 09:47 AM
Better than my grades by the end. Two classes were saved by Finals alone, and the rest weren't all that good either. Hoggy, the A, B, C's are Percentile based, find out what your percent is, and round to the nearest ten, then take the tens digit, and I think you have the 1-10 scale.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-03, 11:16 AM
I'm not understanding that system
A's? accetable?
B's? better then expected?
C's? ???????????
P's? perfect?
umm please explain

Glaivemaster
2007-06-03, 11:23 AM
A = best
B
C
D
E
F = worst
U = Failed (forgotten what it stands for)

So Hoggy's grades (apart from Psychology) are on the lower end of the spectrum (though still not failing)

zeratul
2007-06-03, 11:34 AM
Umm for the sake of full disclosure there is something i didn't tell you guys. I think about suicide. A lot. I doubt I'd ever do it but I've thought about it.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-03, 12:43 PM
Usually, A+ is 95+ or 10, A or A- or B+ may then be considered a 85+ or 9; B, B-, or C+ may be considered 75+, and therefor a 7, and so on. F is 50 +, and E(in my system, according to Glaive, it could be a "U" as well), is anything < 50 (5), for if you're below 50, you're not going to pass anyways, and therefor not point splitting hairs.

Skippy
2007-06-04, 07:19 AM
Hi there, it's me again...

Remember my problem? With that girl I love but who seemed to be playing with my feelings?

Well, she's having some troubles right now... her ex has been looking for her lately and she's still moved by him, and she's having some problems with my friend, his boyfriend. They are about to break up, she's tired of him (and there's the ex issue, but that's another tale...) and all I can think right now is why the heck is she still thinking of that jerk... He made her cry so many times and yet she still cares for him... Why can't she think of me either? What makes him better than me?

I'm really frustrated right now about that. Somehow I'm going to make her forget about him. He doesn't deserve someone like her. Perhaps I can't make her love me, but it's not fair that being people that care for her she is still thinking of that idiot.

Vespe Ratavo
2007-06-04, 08:41 AM
Hey everyone. I'm not really depressed, just feeling a little bit down. And I know this is going to seem trivial to everyone, just thought I'd say it.

They just put my dog to sleep. So many memories with him. Ah well. He was getting kind of old, and he couldn't walk under his own power, and then came the kidney failure and all that stuff. So I'm feeling a little bit sad.

Starting to feel normal though. That's good. :smallbiggrin:

No need to reply to this.

Narmoth
2007-06-04, 08:54 AM
Sorry about your dog vespe. I'm shure it was a good friend that will be deservingly missed. :smalleek:

And remember, no problem, no sadness is to smal to post about here. If it made you feel better to post here, you did the right thing. If it made you feel worse, post again and get the help you need. :smallamused:

Jonathan_Crane
2007-06-04, 09:06 AM
Hi there, it's me again...

Remember my problem? With that girl I love but who seemed to be playing with my feelings?

Well, she's having some troubles right now... her ex has been looking for her lately and she's still moved by him, and she's having some problems with my friend, his boyfriend. They are about to break up, she's tired of him (and there's the ex issue, but that's another tale...) and all I can think right now is why the heck is she still thinking of that jerk... He made her cry so many times and yet she still cares for him... Why can't she think of me either? What makes him better than me?

I'm really frustrated right now about that. Somehow I'm going to make her forget about him. He doesn't deserve someone like her. Perhaps I can't make her love me, but it's not fair that being people that care for her she is still thinking of that idiot.

I realise this is a fairly simplistic explanation, but I suggest you read up onThe Ladder Theory (http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html). I had exactly the same problem you are having a few years ago, and this theory, as cynical as it seems, really made a lot of sense to me when I read it. It's not that he's better than you; he sounds like a bastard. But his bastardness probably only makes him more attractive to the girl in question, not less so. Happy reading.

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-05, 06:58 AM
Umm for the sake of full disclosure there is something i didn't tell you guys. I think about suicide. A lot. I doubt I'd ever do it but I've thought about it.

Do think there's any particular reason that you do think about it so much?

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-05, 10:54 AM
umm iīm a bit down and hungry, can anybody give me a cookie? becouse that wil really help!

Vespe Ratavo
2007-06-05, 11:37 AM
*gives cookie*
Better?

DarkLightDragon
2007-06-05, 12:58 PM
I couldn't think of an opening sentence...

1:39am over here, and feeling a bit lonely. I'm actually awake because I woke up, drank some water (I keep a bottle next to my bed 'cause I get thirsty alot), choked on the water as I was about to fall asleep again and woke up again. I've been awake for a while now. But that's not what I came here to post about.

Those of you who remember the early days of the old depression thread (or threads, since two were merged) may or may not remember some of my previous posts about lack of social life (I call it that, seems accurate enough). I don't see myself improving with the people I already know but when I get out of school then maybe. That's close to what I came to post about, but not quite there.

The thing that got me depressed this time was planning my birthday. I usually love this sort of thing but its starting to bug me. I wanted to do something but my mum tells me we can't afford it. I get mega-pissed and wonder why she didn't tell me before even though I think she knew what I wanted to do. But maybe she misinterpreted something. She better have. So I can't do what I wanted to do. But there isn't anything else I want to do. This makes me even more pissed.

Then I went to bed (you know that). And woke up (you also know that). I was feeling really lonely. There are no people I want to hang out with, no people I want to invite (the last time I invited non-family was my 13th...). When this goes on for years like it has, it starts to get to me. At times I feel this extreme loneliness and that "why does the world hate me?" feeling. And also confusion as I usually prefer not to talk to others yet I get the other feelings. This makes the other feelings worse.

I turn 16 on Monday. This has been a horrible way to spend my last week of being 15. I don't want it to end like this! I've also not been looking forward to turning 16 for other reasons. I also don't want to feel lonely, so I posted here to try and get rid of a bit of that.

2:08am now... I won't bother looking at how much time I took to post this. Maybe later.

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-05, 01:05 PM
Birthdays have been really hard on me as well, I haven't had a party in a few years.

Cheer up, at worse comes to worse, just treat it as a normal day. I know I probably won't make a big deal of my next ones.

Find your zen, what you really like to do. What makes you happy? Now do it.

DarkLightDragon
2007-06-05, 01:37 PM
Find your zen, what you really like to do. What makes you happy? Now do it. Sorta hard playing video games at nearly... *looks at computer clock* nearly 3am. Crap.

That's the first thing that comes to mind, though there are a few others. :smallwink:

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-05, 01:44 PM
@DLD

I think I missed your complaints in the previous thread about social life, but here's a few questions that may shape any advice I could give you;

Do you live somewhere where there are a lot of people?
City, town, metropolis, whatever; are there places you can go, or a neighborhood you live in?
If you live in the middle of nowhere, meeting people can be hard, but if you're surrounded by people (or, if you're in school, surrounded by people your own age) there's more of an opportunity.

You know this, if course, so that leads me to a second question; Are there some special circumstances that lead to a lack of social life?

DarkLightDragon
2007-06-05, 01:52 PM
@DLD

I think I missed your complaints in the previous thread about social life, but here's a few questions that may shape any advice I could give you;

Do you live somewhere where there are a lot of people?
City, town, metropolis, whatever; are there places you can go, or a neighborhood you live in?
If you live in the middle of nowhere, meeting people can be hard, but if you're surrounded by people (or, if you're in school, surrounded by people your own age) there's more of an opportunity.

You know this, if course, so that leads me to a second question; Are there some special circumstances that lead to a lack of social life? I'll answer these quick, then I'll be going to bed.


Do you live somewhere where there are a lot of people? Yep.


City, town, metropolis, whatever; are there places you can go, or a neighborhood you live in? Again, yes. The comment about schools: I dislike most of the people in my school.


Are there some special circumstances that lead to a lack of social life? I wouldn't say special circumstances, but I have been bullied for pretty much my entire school life (4th grade has some of the worst memories...). I also have mild autism (the other students don't know this). But nothing physical that would stop me from having a normal social life.

Hm... night all... I'll make more sense out of things tomorrow if it confuses anyone.

Ceska
2007-06-05, 02:29 PM
Wow, it took me long to be able to react on anything. Not good, or maybe it is. Well, I'm sick now. I missed an exam yesterday, but at least I managed to pass one of the main exams last Friday, so I'm pretty positive I'll pass this grade without any trouble, I'd pass anyway, but I don't want to do it that way.


One thing you may want to look at is if this "wanting to take the hard way" isn't just "terrified of failure" in a particularly subtle guise. Because if you take the hard way and fail you can always blame your more challenging choice...and then convince yourself you didn't REALLY fail...you just aimed too high.
You made me think long of that. All I can say is, you might be correct. After all, I'm a perfectionist. I simply can't do anything under my own expectations, to the point that I rather do not, instead of failing them. That might also be a reason it took me so long to answer this post.


As for help...not really sure...I really doubt the whole "turn off you brain" thing has ever worked for you but try meditation...Really it does work and can get you more complete awarness of your problem.
Turn off might be the wrong term. More like do other things to not think of a particular problem. Just, that also means I can't read anything, because it makes me feel guilty I'm not doing what I'm supposed to, and I can't do what I'm supposed to, since it makes me think of my situation and keeps me off anything to change it. It took me days to even start learning, because every time I went there I got "deeper" thoughts. Which means up to suicidal or what I call "floating".

Another idea is to have to do things well for someone outside yourself....when you are taking the easier route on another behalf it can put off that part of you that wants to take the hard way.
What can I say. I don't have such a person. I keep very far from other people, meaning I don't even get asked for something, and my mother for example is far too proud to ever ask for help. That also means I feel absolutely powerless.

As for the whole happiness thing I'd actually recommend that you start by looking for beauty in normal everyday life. Look around like you would walking into the second to last gallery at an art museum.
Oh, I do that very often. Actually, I love nature. It's beauty is one of the few absolutes I agree on. But it also makes me think of its (transience? I would like to use "Vergšnglichkeit" but have no clue as how to translate it.) and only more depressive. It's kind of strange, but exactly what usually makes me happy, makes me sad now. Take the four seasons for example. They always are the same. It kinda makes me sad to see something repeat itself again and again and again. Or a forest, I walk through it and only see the destruction caused by humans, rather than the beauty of it.


And realize its transience is part of its beauty.
I do not know if I yet can see that. On one hand I hate this, on the other it seems natural and as balance to the repetition.


You may want to study some Japanese haiku's too as they are really good for the grasping transient beauty theme-they even have a word for it-but I'll be damned if I know it.
Maybe. But it's not beauty of writings I lack. Actually, I love poetry and every kind of writing (every kind of art, come to think of, but it's the only I can produce myself and thus feel closest too), but I simply would wonder how much I miss by not knowing the original language. Reading Dostoevsky or Tolstoy for example made me read whole pages again just because I wondered how much I lost by not knowing Russian. Still, I think it's a good idea, but I have yet to see if I can relate to it.


And with the whole feeling like you are part of some other kind of being but not. I have zero clue how to help you on that one-I've just gotten to the point I take it as a given in my life and ask "Well I'm here, now what do I do?"
Oh, I'm sure there are things one has to figure out for oneself. It's okay if nobody can help me, as long as I can. I wouldn't want you to tell me the absolute truth for me anyway.

As for the stable loving relationships-Just because something isn't gold doesn't mean it doesn't have value...and for the not wanting that realising you have lost control of your own emotions and someone else does is a terrifying part of being head over heals in love....But you know I still think it's worth it....more terrifying than skydiving but still worth it.
Isn't it interesting how gold is actually useless to us yet we value it higher than anything of real worth? I fear I might be caught in its brilliance and forget the real value of it. I simply don't know, I don't think I'm ready yet, but then, I might never really be. Now, if I just knew somebody to risk trying for.

With the anger-try either taking it out with your paints (you may even like the results more) or perhaps martial arts....It is amazing how punching a red leather flap drains you aggression to the world. (Personally I blame neuropeptides)
Martial arts I have tried. But it felt too repetitive and too stable for me. But that was years ago, I might try it. With paintings the problem is that I can't get anything right. I have a perfect picture in my head and then when painting it I somehow fail and end up destroying it for not being perfect. Anger doesn't help in the least with that. I rather stay with appreciating that of others instead, as it is in an area I can work with.


To Conclude it can be a serious problem, what you are dealing with. I totally bombed my Uni applications years ago because of this. It can get messy. I doubt that anyone here recommending it would get you to see professional help because you realize you have a problem but don't really see yourself as sick (Totally WAGing it here-but the story implies it).
Well, I already think of professional help. Just, my first impression was no good one and it's actually very hard for me to open myself and say yes, I'll do it now. I somehow never get to the point that I can openly say that. Still, I see myself as sick. All evidence shows that (well, if three different Psychologists say the same independent of each other I doubt I can refuse it) I am.


I might recommend travel and trying LOTS and LOTS of new things to see if you can find anything that grabs you hard enough that you want to make it work period...something where failure would not be acceptable no matter what. I won't say you'll ever find that but searching would be something I'd recommend-maybe in Uni.
It's not like there is nothing that grabs me. Quite the opposite actually, I can see myself doing a lot. Unfortunately, so can everyone else and thus I can't really decide what to do. Sometimes I feel like caught between my own urges. I can see myself in so many things and yet they are... far.

Well, one thing I have decided, and that is studying in a foreign country. I'm not sure as to where yet, but I don't want to stay here anymore, that much is clear to me.


After he had the guts to say something that made me cry so hard, I had to go home from school! Who did he think he was, doing something like that?!
A boy. A stupidly in love one, but still, just a person. I doubt his intention was to make you cry though.


So I ignored him. I was good at it. He would try to get me to talk to him, but I never said a word. He kept following me around, trying to get me to talk to him, and not spending a ****ing second thinking about how much he'd hurt me.

If he ****ing loved me, why didn't he actually sit down and think about what he could have possibly ****ing told me that would make me get so ****ing pissed off? He seriously hurt me, and couldn't figure out how! He's supposed to be smart! If he'd asked any of our friends, they would have told him that they saw me sitting outside the lybrary, crying so ****ing hard that I couldn't stop!
A, but teenagers are like that. His love probably says "I want you" maybe even "I want you to want me", but it's still a basic urge. A simple, egoistical "I want. And I want it now!" Now let me ask you, if an instinct was rational, would it still be an instinct?


Then he went all emo. He stopped grooming himself, he stopped talking to me, he couldn't even look at me. If anything, I only felt worse. That's not ****ing fair! He really hurts me, and has no idea how, and then goes and makes me feel horrible!
No he doesn't. He simply has no clue as to how it hurts you. Instead, he thinks of his own pain and how he can mope in it. Simply put, he's stupid and not even aware of it.


And he bounced back pretty quick, to. Just a few weeks later, it turns out he was dating one of my other close friends. Oh, I'm still friends with her, but I can't get over what a jerk he is.
If he really doesn't mean anything to you, why should you even care? Why should it matter who he annoys now, that he finally stopped to have you as his target? Why are you upset, because you feel bad for her falling for such a jerk, or because you're not his centre of attention anymore. Woah, I sound harsh. That's not my intention. What I mean to say is, oftentimes we like to be centre of the attention of others, even if we don't really like the attention. Nothing feels worse than to be ignored, or to be the fifth wheel. But what do I know, being antisocial and only observant.


can the world explode or something please?

Nope sorry, won't do. It's pretty close to impossible destroying it completely. Now, killing all life forms on earth, that's quite easy. But blow up a huge ball of metal and rocks, sorry, won't do.

Let me tell you all something that will depress the ever living crap out of you.

In five years, you will look back at high school and go 'man, those were the good old days.'

Unless you go to 'real' college, then maybe not. But it's pretty much downhill from there. Sorry.:smallwink:
Memory's strange, isn't it. It's funny how we usually only remember the good things, but not the long time in between. I won't trust anybody saying how earlier all was better, because, well, memory's pretty problematic. As we like to say es is a Hund. (It's a dog, it means it's a scoundrel, it's not completely honest. Bah, that's hard to translate)
Umm for the sake of full disclosure there is something I didn't tell you guys. I think about suicide. A lot. I doubt I'd ever do it but I've thought about it.
Now, what do you mean with thoughts of suicide? Do you mean you see yourself dead? In which instance? For example, I see myself dying when I drive in a car quite often. Same when I am on heights, or when I use oil and see a burning person dance in the night. Or do simply think of how you would do it, because that's fairly normal and definitely nothing new to me, surely older than my depression.

Or what I also have, I see loppers and picture myself cutting my biggest left toe off. I then check my left foot for the next fifteen minutes if it's still there. But that's not suicide.


The thing that got me depressed this time was planning my birthday. I usually love this sort of thing but its starting to bug me. I wanted to do something but my mum tells me we can't afford it. I get mega-pissed and wonder why she didn't tell me before even though I think she knew what I wanted to do. But maybe she misinterpreted something. She better have. So I can't do what I wanted to do. But there isn't anything else I want to do. This makes me even more pissed.
I sense great anger in you... Okay, I'll stop with that. Really, I wonder if you should be so angry about something so minimal. She said you can't afford it, so what? It's not like she forgot it or something. And why should you even care about birthdays? It's not like it's really special. Rather than that it's more or less like any other day. She probably just misinterpreted you, thinking she does hurt you for deliberately sounds a bit paranoid to me. I'm sure it's not her intention to destroy your party.


Then I went to bed (you know that). And woke up (you also know that). I was feeling really lonely. There are no people I want to hang out with, no people I want to invite (the last time I invited non-family was my 13th...). When this goes on for years like it has, it starts to get to me.
I'm sure you will find people you want to hang out with. Eventually (plus, I'm sure some here could feel hurt by your words)


At times I feel this extreme loneliness and that "why does the world hate me?" feeling.
It doesn't. Frankly, it couldn't care less about you or anyone else. Yes, the world's an apathetic b*tch. But it works that way. There sure are people who don't want to miss you and don't hate you, search them, find them and have a good day. And don't make them feel bad by acting like they wouldn't care about you.


I turn 16 on Monday. This has been a horrible way to spend my last week of being 15. I don't want it to end like this! I've also not been looking forward to turning 16 for other reasons. I also don't want to feel lonely, so I posted here to try and get rid of a bit of that.
Then change it. Go out and work on it, until you don't feel lonely anymore.

Wow, either I sound whiny or like a total ass. Neither is my intention, but I lack the middleground. I also feel extremely self-centred now.

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-05, 02:33 PM
DLD...This seems like the perfect time for a Bor story.

My friends, when I had friends in the "real" world, were the outcasts of teen social life. And even amongst the outcasts, I was an outcast. I just never really fit. A large portion of that was because my family was monstrously dysfunctional, and theirs were...well, better than mine.

I was the eldest among them, and when my 19th birthday arrived, it was a nightmare. You see, my family actually went out of their way to IGNORE my birthday. They didn't even say the words, "Happy birthday." And after an entire day rolled by, I asked my mother (talk about a wrong choice of person to ask) if anyone had forgotten. That's when I was told, in these exact words, "No, we didn't forget. We ignored it." One expects friends to forget. One can even expect a few family members to forget. But one's parents to actually IGNORE one's birthday?

So I sought my friends, and there was no hiding the depressive slump I was in. I told them what transpired, and they gave me...a blonde! :smallwink: Kathy was 16 and beautiful. Put her in a bikini and a pool, and you can bet that I'd come running...and I did. The others, claiming they wanted to do something indoors for a bit, left us to our own designs. Said designs included much swimming and harmless flirting.

With my eyes on the girl, I completely missed her receiving a signal. She suggested we join the others inside. We stepped through the hourse's back door...and the crowd of outcasts shouted, "SURPRISE!" Yes, they'd used the attractive female to distract me while they ran out to get an ice cream cake and throw an impromptu party for me.

Now, this isn't to say that the people in your life socially will do such a thing. No, the message here is that you sometimes have to look for the good things in life. Sometimes they find you, and you should treasure those moments the most when they do. And the ones you have to find? You treasure those too. :smallsmile:

zeratul
2007-06-05, 02:38 PM
Now, what do you mean with thoughts of suicide? Do you mean you see yourself dead? In which instance? For example, I see myself dying when I drive in a car quite often. Same when I am on heights, or when I use oil and see a burning person dance in the night. Or do simply think of how you would do it, because that's fairly normal and definitely nothing new to me, surely older than my depression.

I have recurring feelings of being compelled to kill myself.

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-05, 03:07 PM
I have recurring feelings of being compelled to kill myself.
Z, I had such recurring thoughts when I was a teen. Have them all the time as an adult, too. This is something that needs to be addressed by those who can actually DO something about it. Talking to us may be theraputic, but we can do little about helping in reality. I recommend finding an adult you trust and telling them about it.

For me, the answer is medication. I still marvel at how a pill helps to reduce a thought. I consider suicide at least once a day, even while on my meds. But I am severely disinclined to take action. When I'm off my meds, it's a different story. I have the will and the way, and I'm usually in such a bad place mentally that I simply don't care who gets hurt by my ending my life. I'm on my meds now, and all is well. But looking back at those moments when I was off them... *shudder* Scary stuff.

I don't know what's right for you in terms of help. I'm not one to point to chemistry and yell, "Do the drugs!" I'm simply explaining what works for me. Talk to an adult you trust, and take it from there. And please note that I said "an adult," because telling your friends will NOT help in the long run.

Set to, young warrior prince! We await word of your victories! :smallwink:

sktarq
2007-06-05, 03:31 PM
You made me think long of that. All I can say is, you might be correct. After all, I'm a perfectionist. I simply can't do anything under my own expectations, to the point that I rather do not, instead of failing them. That might also be a reason it took me so long to answer this post.
Well I'm glad you thought about it. I'd prod you to keep thinking about it...if not what I said then what you would explain it as that's different...but I'm apporox 6K miles from your marked location so the only way to do that is: *poke*
*poke*


Turn off might be the wrong term. More like do other things to not think of a particular problem. Just, that also means I can't read anything, because it makes me feel guilty I'm not doing what I'm supposed to, and I can't do what I'm supposed to, since it makes me think of my situation and keeps me off anything to change it. It took me days to even start learning, because every time I went there I got "deeper" thoughts. Which means up to suicidal or what I call "floating".
Right-avoidence-nah never heard of it. Never done it myself. None no-siree-bob. (heck who do I think I'm kidding)....As for focus leading to suicidal or depressive thoughts I recomend turning any project into a bunch of little ones if you can. It help allot of people (not me but I swear I've seen it work). When you say "learning" do you mean school or learning about the way you do this?


What can I say. I don't have such a person. I keep very far from other people, meaning I don't even get asked for something, and my mother for example is far too proud to ever ask for help. That also means I feel absolutely powerless.
Getting closer to people was a big help for me. Other people can be a pain in the rear but they are also my friends, lovers, loves, foes, nemesises, and all those other things that spice life up so much that I care. Also I found I really LIKE helping people....I am not talking about helping with the homework type stuff but musings on life, dealing with the a teenage agst breakup, the death or divorse of parents, somebody having a bit of a personality crisis, depression or something else about people. Most people are pretty neet if you get up close to them-no matter how hard it can be to see their good sides and easy to fault them from a distance. Your current status as an outsider and objective observer will actuall be a big help in these kind of non-small talk situations. It was by helpping others that I was pulled out of the little isolationist shell I had grown. And your mother may not be the best person to try helpping...Start with your peers....



Oh, I do that very often. Actually, I love nature. It's beauty is one of the few absolutes I agree on. But it also makes me think of its (transience? I would like to use "Vergšnglichkeit" but have no clue as how to translate it.) and only more depressive. It's kind of strange, but exactly what usually makes me happy, makes me sad now. Take the four seasons for example. They always are the same. It kinda makes me sad to see something repeat itself again and again and again. Or a forest, I walk through it and only see the destruction caused by humans, rather than the beauty of it.
I do not know if I yet can see that. On one hand I hate this, on the other it seems natural and as balance to the repetition.... Reading Dostoevsky or Tolstoy for example made me read whole pages again just because I wondered how much I lost by not knowing Russian. Still, I think it's a good idea, but I have yet to see if I can relate to it.
Why are the seasons sad? Each season is a little different really...Not really sure exactly what you are getting at with this one....Know of too many things it could be....Is it seeing the negative in general...both in nature and everything else? A stuck feeling that such things as the seasons remind you of?
When I say to see its beauty as more FOR its transience I'm trying to get you to see its greater value in the idea that it is sometthing more rare and the experience is more special for that.(Edits out 4th dimention explination)..Something that will soon disappear is something that also MUST be enjoyed now in this moment and this life...it is also not something that you can just get used to or come to take for granted beacause by the time you do-it will be gone. In
And yeah, Russian lit-yeah it works that way...There is really no way around it except to learn every language on the planet that has writen something down you want to learn from. This may be a place to leave your perfectionism at the door. Instead of learning everything possible by one source (by learning the language) try learning as much as you can from several sources. I still got much enjoyment, and new ways of thinking, from Yegevny Zamutin's "We" eventhough it was the book which made me actually want to learn Russian due to the whole "what does the translation leave out?" issue.



Isn't it interesting how gold is actually useless to us yet we value it higher than anything of real worth? I fear I might be caught in its brilliance and forget the real value of it. I simply don't know, I don't think I'm ready yet, but then, I might never really be. Now, if I just knew somebody to risk trying for.
Very true gold is just about worthless in a practical sence (except as a highly stable plating for drinking vessels and being able to see gold ornamented things easier in the dark-(pre industrial revolution uses that is)). As for getting caught in its brillience I might point out that a surprizing amount of love is based in the lower brain-it requires both the head and the heart to fall. As for finding someone to risk that much for....All I can recomend is time, being out there for people to meet and actually get to know, being active in exposing yourself to new people and places (not to mention you get to pick up new friends, stories, info, and often places to crash on the other side of the globe-it's fun).



Martial arts I have tried. But it felt too repetitive and too stable for me. But that was years ago, I might try it. With paintings the problem is that I can't get anything right. I have a perfect picture in my head and then when painting it I somehow fail and end up destroying it for not being perfect. Anger doesn't help in the least with that. I rather stay with appreciating that of others instead, as it is in an area I can work with.
One thing about martial arts....They are repeditive for along time....at least a year of regular practice....but then something else happens. The basic moves are internalised in your mind and start to "just happen". Like when you write in cursive; a complicated muscle command is compleated with little to no active thought. This helps with all sorts of mental issues-it promotes mental and emotional discipline while still giving a vent port to aggressivness. Builds confidence and it makes you much harder to intimidate. Also you get all the benefits of exercise on your body and mind.
As for the paint have you tried painting from the emotion first instead of the mental picture? This again needs years of skill building to work right because once you are good enough technically the emotions you blast onto the paper actually carry your emotions onto other people when they view it.-Keep trying there is always hope in this avenue.


Well, I already think of professional help. Just, my first impression was no good one and it's actually very hard for me to open myself and say yes, I'll do it now. I somehow never get to the point that I can openly say that. Still, I see myself as sick. All evidence shows that (well, if three different Psychologists say the same independent of each other I doubt I can refuse it) I am.
I have to admit never liking professional help, even the very idea of it. Part of it is that they do have an interest, even a subconcious one, in saying I'm sick and need to come back regularly for treatment. Maybe I have have my own pride issues with this sort of thing (okay I do but that's a different story-let's just say I relate to your mother on this one) but I'd say go for whatever works. I know that trying a bunch of different ones until you "click" has been important for several of my friends. And see if you can find ones that are comfortable talking about other things besides getting you to just "open up" right away-they can be few and far between depending on the local caseload but if you have trouble opening up may be worth the effort of searching.


It's not like there is nothing that grabs me. Quite the opposite actually, I can see myself doing a lot. Unfortunately, so can everyone else and thus I can't really decide what to do. Sometimes I feel like caught between my own urges. I can see myself in so many things and yet they are... far.
I'm not talking about things you do well at. Doing well at just about everything is another kind of curse that most western culture doesn't know how to deal with it. The fact that everybody else tells you about it all the time just makes you feel worse because finding limits nowhere is about as guiding as finding limits everywhere but saying it makes you feel like crap and a spoilsport for having tons of talent. That is not what I'm talking about-I am talking about something that grabs you and says you REALLY want to do THIS. A passion not a talent.


Well, one thing I have decided, and that is studying in a foreign country. I'm not sure as to where yet, but I don't want to stay here anymore, that much is clear to me.

Kudos! Good luck with that!

Skippy
2007-06-06, 12:50 AM
I realise this is a fairly simplistic explanation, but I suggest you read up onThe Ladder Theory (http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html). I had exactly the same problem you are having a few years ago, and this theory, as cynical as it seems, really made a lot of sense to me when I read it. It's not that he's better than you; he sounds like a bastard. But his bastardness probably only makes him more attractive to the girl in question, not less so. Happy reading.

Wow... It's really illuminating... Not at all comforting, yet, but illuminating...
It's really cheap, though...

Glaivemaster
2007-06-06, 05:07 AM
Hey guys and girls. I'm feeling a little down at the moment, so I thought I'd come and vent in here. See if it makes me feel better. I'm not expecting help from this, since it's all mainly in the past, but...well, anyway

I was reading some letters from a friend just about 5 minutes ago. About this time last summer [really, not that long ago, it feels like years] we started writing to each other, since it was our easiest way of keeping in touch.

The main problem I suppose is that from before this [yes, I keep going backwards, I know] we'd been to a party, and (under the influence of alcohol) toyed with the idea of having a relationship. It was decided, in the morning, that we didn't want one [not both of us, anyway :smallfrown: ] Anyway, in the first letter she sent me, she eluded to the party, and I thought she was maybe reconsidering the relationship idea. Things happened, it failed, and we ended up growing apart for a while. Not important to this [I believe I've talked about it all in the previous Depression thread]

Anyway, the main problem [the other one] is, looking back at the first few letters, we were really close friends. It seemed like she really wanted to and enjoyed talking to me. As time went on, the letters got shorter, and further apart, as things happened, and in the end they stopped altogether. We haven't written to each other for nearly a year now.

Ugh, I am getting to the point, honest. I suppose it's just that, when I see how we used to be such good friends, and I look at our position today, still seemingly good friends, I feel so sad for the amount of friendship we've lost. I rarely talk to her much any more, and I know next to nothing about her life.

Like I said, I'm not really looking for advice, I'm just venting. But if you were going to give some, it would be how to approach this subject with her, without making her scared that I'm going to try and ask her out again. That's what scared her away from me before, and now I really regret it

Anyway, that's it. I feel sad, and unfortunately venting hasn't helped me at all. But I hate wasting work more than I hate wasting other peoples' time, so I'm going to post this anyway

phantomhermit
2007-06-06, 11:03 PM
hello everyone, my name is phantomhermit

*hello phantomhermit*

*sits down and takes a sip of coffee*

i have been to too many of those and i am feeling down tonight because of an indirect insult given to me on these forums. it amounted to "useless damn bastard" and, like most things, i thought about each word individually before putting them together. now i know that next to no one knows me on here, and those who do dont know me that well, but i am going to go ahead and spill my guts. in a very general sense. i have severe mental illnesses that keep me from doing pretty much anything more than sleeping all day from the effects of my meds. there is the useless part. the only thing i contribute to my family is in the form of a modified form of wellfare and all of that is spent on my meds. useless, except for my exceptional wit and charm i guess. pah! i can stare down a pit bull with its teeth bared but i cant load the dishwasher. odd thing that. i will get back to that in a second. now to "damn." with all the dealings i have had with the dark powers that be, i am not sure as to my status amongst the forces that decide what happens to me when i die. i am an odd mix of religion and philosophy. i am taoist/pagan/christian. to put it bluntly, i believe in inner balance and harmony, the sanctity of nature, and jesus as the means of "cleansing" all the "bad stuff" from my record. but how far can you go on one side of the fence until you cannot go back to the other? perhaps that is why i do not know myself- because i dont will myself to step further away from the wall than i ever have before. perhaps i am weak. and perhaps i am just depressed. it is late and my head is swimming and i feel faint, but i need to hack this out before i go to bed. honestly i know that pretty much everyone gives a **** about me, but not enough to actually read this thing, so if you have made it this far, i applaud you. i have a girlfriend. we are planning on getting married once she is out of college, and i cant support a family. the current plan is to get a job at the local liquor store here in town and try to stay there long enough to make seven dollars and hour. and i am going to take some online college courses. i want to be a computer programmer. i want to be normal and messed up just like everyone else; not like this *puts head in hands* no one understands me because of my mental illness and it isnt like i can explain it that well either. and i know this is just some crap-shoot full of self-pity, but i really am hurting and i dont know how to make it go away. i have tried god, jesus, religion, alcohol, drugs, sex, video games . . . . the only time i feel at home is when i am playing dnd with my friend peguinsushi. he is only a little older than me, but i view him as a father figure. o yeah, my father died in my arms when i was twelve. forgot to mention that. i cant quite seem to forget it fully though. well anyway, here is a tribute! i raise my water glass to you dnd people. without you, life would be empty- even with all that i may ever possess, your friendship means more to me than anything else in this world. you guys understand me. you guys love me. and the odd thing is this was all started by a flame by Koda. i know it shouldnt hurt, but when anyone calls me something like a "useless damn bastard" it really irks me. in person anyone who challenges my father's honor gets to deal with three hundred pounds of mean. and in person i would probably just let it slide. but when it is written, it is etched in stone. a very great banker once said "think alot; speak little; write nothing." i know i should put this on a freaking blog or something, but no one reads those, and this forum is the closest thing to home that i have except when i am gaming, and i am just a pixie for thor's sake. funny that. gotta think about that. cheers, drink up, and smoke em if you got em- and if you have any advice, send me a pm. i havnt gotten one yet and it will make my day. trust me.

smellie_hippie
2007-06-07, 07:25 AM
Ok... um. This post is going to seem somewhat rushed, because I haven't read the thread in a while, and there appears to be a LOT of movement. If I overlook someones post or some content, please forgive me and send me a PM. I'd be happy to talk with each and every one of you.

Disclaimer: Yes I am a therapist. No I'm not going to get into a long "therapy" relationship with you, since the effect would be GREATLY diminished over the internet.

Glug: You brother has been cutting? Likely it has been intentional cutting? You should talk to him. Talk to him soon. He will want to avoid it, or minimize it. They call suicide the "silent epidemic" because nobody wants to talk about it. If you feel comfortable with him, talk to him. If he is cutting himself, he probably has a reason. If he gets angry about being confronted, you have the following thought to rely on for being ok with his anger... "Him being angry with you for talking to him about suicide is much easier to handle than the alternative..."

Zeratul: If you've been having thoughts about suicide, you should talk to someone. The compelling urge to commit suicide is very scary, and you should not handle it alone. Find someone you trust and talk with them. Be open and honest about why you are thinking about this.

phantomhermit: I'm sorry to hear about things going so poorly for you. Living with a mental illness makes it difficult for others to understand you. It also makes it difficult to understand others. Enjoy your happiness with your gaming group (which PS has repeatedly invited me to join). DnD buddies will always be there for you... unless they're planning to loot your character.

Skippy
2007-06-07, 08:15 AM
Hi again... Sorry if sometimes I'm not here to help somebody else, but I think nobody with problems of his own can possibly help ano other...

It's just a little doubt about that ladder theory... What happened between her and I means that I'm on the right ladder? I mean, we got to be closer than closer... There was a strong atraction between her and I, and it was only my own indecision which made me lose her, and then there are those who are on the right ladder, but only higher than myself. Isn't it right? Please tell me I'm right, so I can begin working on a plan or something...

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-07, 08:19 AM
All men are on the ladder. That "Not if you were the last man on earth" deal-y is a lie. Now what you have to do is kill everybody above you. Then she'll have to love you.

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-07, 09:32 AM
All men are on the ladder. That "Not if you were the last man on earth" deal-y is a lie. Now what you have to do is kill everybody above you. Then she'll have to love you.

Ummm...Rex? I respectfully request suggestions like this not occur. I understand the spirit in which you gave it, but people in psychological distress could take something like that to heart. Our goal here is to AVOID creating sociopaths! :smallwink:

Skippy
2007-06-08, 01:35 AM
Hey there... Me again... Once again with new troubles just to make your life a bit busier...

OK, I have just screwed everything up...

On Sunday, I went to a Convention that is held up every 6 months over here. I went with a friend of mine who is also friend of hers and there we found another guy who is my friend and also a friend of her boyfriend. He asked me something relative to her boyfriend of which I didn't know anything (nor did I care), but as soon as the other guy could, he ran to his house and asked her whether if what he had heard was or wasn't true. Big mistake no. 1

The next day, she asked me if what the other guy had asked her had really happened, so I told her that it had really happened, and that I was really mad at our friend for telling her. She told me to keep quiet about it but I didn't hear it. Big mistake no. 2

About an hour and a half, I spoke to him and told him he had screwed it all, and that he was really stupid. Then he made the Big Mistake no. 3... He spoke to her and told her she was supposed to keep quiet on their conversation (which they should never have had in the first place), so she went ballistic and told me I was unreliable, because she had told me to keep quiet. Now she's mad at me, her boyfriend found out the whole story and he's also mad at me and we are all mad at the other guy who was really really stupid...

What am I supposed to do now?

Quincunx
2007-06-08, 03:56 AM
. . .Our goal here is to AVOID creating sociopaths! :smallwink:

Well, balls. Where're the Curmudgeons for Death and Hypocrisy comedians supposed to post our jokes now? A dead audience is bad. A murderous audience is an occupational hazard!

Silent epidemic - second thread, seven pages, and still flapping on. How about the Epidemic Which Refuses to Take Action One Way or the Other?

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-08, 06:40 AM
What am I supposed to do now?

I don't pretent to be able to understand what you've written entirely without the benefit of some sort of flow chart, but it sounds to me as if you've gotten yourself embroiled in a long, complex chain of misunderstandings; one of those things where you might have just dropped a snowball at the top of the peak, but damnation if it didn't cause an avalanche down on the bottom.

So, what to do? You have a few options, I think. First of all, if I understand this right, the crux of the problem is that a rumor was started which was then passed on due to miscommunication.
If you really want to nip this on the bud, then the simplest solution is to apologize to the girl and her boyfriend (the ones who are mad at you) for your own role in the mess. It'd take swallowing your pride a bit, but I think a sincere apology acompanied by a short explanation will go a long way. The actual delivery of the apology is up to you; maybe you just invite them out to Fastfoodsplace for lunch or something, or even just the next time you see them.

Really, I think apology is the best approach. If you can't bring yourself to humble yourself a little for the sake of friendship, then you can simply wait for a while, and hope that the whole thing blows over. This is risky, because it may allow a grudge to solidify or make you appear stubborn, but it would allow you to hang on to your pride.
You just have to work out which is more important to you; your friends or your dignity.

Good luck,
TGS

Skippy
2007-06-08, 09:04 AM
Ok, I'll try and summarize it in order to make it more comprehensible...

1. A friend tells me something about her boyfriend (It was true but it doesn't matter here)
2. Another friend hears this
3. He goes and tells her what he heard. He told her not to say anything about it.
4. She asks me whether it was true what we heard, and I tell her it was. She tells me not to say anything, but I was really angry with our friend.
5. I tell him he has really screwed things up by telling her.
6. He goes and gets mad at her for telling me what he told her.
7. She goes and gets mad at me for telling he what she told me.
8. Her boyfriend finds out what happened and gets mad at both of us.

Now, I've been trying to apologize to both of them all night, even though they are really stubborn... What can I do if they don't want to listen to me? They are really valuable to me and I don't want to lose their friendship... I'll worry about her interest in me later, but right now I don't want them to stop talking to me again...

smellie_hippie
2007-06-08, 09:14 AM
Skippy: It sounds liek you've been pulled into the middle of someone else's problem. That's a tough place to be, but the fact is the only thing you are "guilty" of is having difficulty keeping something to yourself. That got complicated when both sides of the argument knew that you had heard something in rehards to the other side. You should talk to them both about the fact that you were put in an incredibly awkward situation. Acept the ownership of having "run your mouth" and hope that they can move past that part. It should help if you can help them realise how diffciult it was for you to be in the middle of their fight.

Druid_lord
2007-06-08, 10:44 AM
I hath returned for yet more advi e. The resident "girl of questionable honor in relationships" made up a story about having sex with a guy who hung out with a bunch of us and is twenty 1. She ended up getting him arrested, though he is now out on parole. He is not alowed ANY contact with minors. The "girl of questionable honor in relationships " apparently trusts me for some reason and told me she is planning on having someone give an apology note to the guy and asks for my opinon. Any clue on what i should tell her?

smellie_hippie
2007-06-08, 11:26 AM
She was involved in his being arrested? Charged with molestation? Some other offense involving a minor?

Um..... you should advise your friend to leave that situation alone completely! What's done is done, and trying to fix things involving a legal/criminal nature is generally a bad idea. Especially if he is ordered to stay away from minors completely.

Lilly
2007-06-08, 12:53 PM
I'm just gonna blither for a little while

I'm about ready to ask my mom for the money from my CD (large chunk of money that I've had sitting around since I was 10) for personal expenses. Not even anything big, but just the fact that I'm not making enough money to survive off of. But everything broke at once, and I can't fix it. I snapped my glasses in half, my computer broke (it intermittantly shuts off, and all they did at the store was clean it, and it's still broken), and my car has fallen into disrepair.

I've been considering moving out and into my parents house, but not yet
and I'm kinda really sad because I was gonna use that money to go visit my guy (who happens to live in Australia).

Now I'm thinking if I financially plan properlly and work for it, I could go see him at the end of October or the begining of November. But with my current job situation, I don't think I can do anything. Because I'm working 6 days next week, and if I think if I mention this I might get fired. I had to let them know a month in advance that I wanted a weekend off! This is really no way to have to live. And they aren't giving me any privilages (such as access to my personal belongings) because they think that I"m going to be leaving anytime, and then I realize that I'm not leaving any time soon so I'm never going to go get any privilages and...

*sob sob* spiral downwards... *sob sob*

And I really do want to go to gencon. Really really want to. I've wanted to go since I heard of the concept. This was almost 5 years ago. But, here we're back to what work would let me do, I don't think they'll let me have a week off to go galavanting around, and then in september ask for 4 days off to go work the scotish irish festival for the woman I would work for for faire.

Oh faire!

I went to go help two of my friends set up their place to stay on my days off this week, and I realized that I am going to severly miss faire. I want to be working there SO BAD. But I can't. Due to a job I hate.

Why can't things go right?

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-08, 01:05 PM
@Lilly

Is it so essential to work at this one oppresive job? It sounds as if you're feeling horribly oppressed by your work, and, since you apparently don't get any benefits (or even basic freedoms), it seems like there's very little keeping you in that job, aside from stability. I'd recommend searching around a little, even if you have to stick with the hell job for a while.

As to the other things...I can definitely sympathize. I was in China last summer, and I was to meet my lady friend there for a week or so (she lives half a continent away, so it's a rare thing to get to see her), but then it turned out that she wasn't able to go. So I was left to kick around Shanghai by my onesies for half a week. Disappointments like this happen sometimes, and I definitely sympathize. But still...I'd recommend making sure your affairs are a little more settled before you make plans for a visit or an excursion. Car, glasses and compy fixed, maybe, and looking around for a better job.
I think your guy will understand (he may even chivilously volunteer to visit you, instead).

Best wishes,
TGS

Lilly
2007-06-08, 01:19 PM
A stupid sense of loyalty? Not wanting to work two irrelevent jobs before I get a real one?

This job has nothing to do with my field of study. Nothing. It's retail. The only reason I took this paticular retail job was that I needed money fast, and I thought I'd be gone by March. The last interview I had for something even vaguley relevent was in the middle of May.

Quincunx
2007-06-08, 02:31 PM
I think smellie hippie has the story slightly muddled, druid lord, but the advice still applies. If she's still underage, that note (however well-meant, and I don't know whether this move is contrition or deviousness) might land him back in jail. Whether she's underage or not, advise her to write now, date the letter, and send months later with the P.S. telling why she delayed sending it. News might leak across in the intervening months, but if she wants to tell him now, that ought not to be a problem.

Using a proxy is a good idea. Using a person for a proxy is a less good idea; more people confuse communication. If there's a way to get the letter to him impersonally, use that instead. If he's ok with her knowing where he lives, the mail is fine.

I suggest this from the angle of the note's receiver--been here before, but not to the extent of "sorry I got you a criminal record".

SMEE
2007-06-08, 03:07 PM
Lilly:
Please, consider quiting that particular job. It's not doing you well. Find another one, a more appropriate one, even if it's not completly related to your field of study.
You are a capable, smart girl who will be able to fetch a new, better job in little time.

My dad once put it this way for me: "If the job is interesting to you and to the company, keep it, even though others may offer you a better job. If either the company or you is not interested, quit. It'll be better for you and the company. You'll find another one soon."

That statement served me well thus far.

*pets Lilly*

Now go girl! :smallsmile:

sktarq
2007-06-08, 03:22 PM
Lilly....I think you just realized you are falling down on your job due to distraction with this retail one....That job your are falling down on-finding something not reatil and that you like....preferably one that lets you fix you car and go to Gencon useing some of your 2-5 weeks of vacation per year....You may be out of a trip down under for a few months but as was mentioned earlier if you are in a bind him going to you might be better. May was only a couple of weeks ago...so jump right back onto the horse and get going Lilly!

-and in the meantime-

*hug*

potatocubed
2007-06-08, 03:47 PM
This is really no way to have to live.

You said it.

In your shoes I'd quit the job, move back in with my parents, crack open the discretionary fund and use it. In fact, I was in a very similar situation about three years ago, and did exactly that.

Moving back home might feel a bit galling, but your living costs will go way down and so long as you get on with your family you should be alright. It's also much, much easier to get a job when you can spend all your time looking for a job*. If you're staying at home you should be in a better position to be picky about the jobs you go for as well, since your need for cash should be less pressing.

As for your man? Hmm. Tricky. I think your immediate priority should probably be getting back on top of life, but this one's really up to you. Thought 1: Get him to come see you in Colourful Colorado. Thought 2: See how far ahead you can book flights. I've found some crazy cheap flights by booking 9 months in advance before.

Anyway, even if you decide everything else I've said is rubbish, walk out of that job. Life is too short to work a job you hate.

*I actually spent most of my time playing City of Heroes until 4 am, but I still got a job! Think how well someone less lazy than me** could do!

**This means you.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-08, 04:04 PM
I lost my cookie...........

EmeraldRose
2007-06-08, 05:40 PM
*pokes head into the new thread (finally!) and sits down to read all the pages*

I'll post some advice this weekend, I promise!

EDIT: Oh wow....more here than I thought there was...First things first though.

@ Glug. Cutting is not necessarily a sign of suicidal intention. It can be simply a way of releasing inner turmoil and pain. It is becoming more common in boys these days. I agree that you should speak to your brother and possibly expect him to minimize it. It may be a good idea to look up some info on cutting so you can talk to him about it.

If he intends to keep cutting, make sure he is cleaning the wounds so they don't get infected.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-09, 02:19 AM
bit sad, for some reason......................

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-09, 06:58 AM
I'm just gonna blither for a little while

I'm about ready to ask my mom for the money from my CD (large chunk of money that I've had sitting around since I was 10) for personal expenses. Not even anything big, but just the fact that I'm not making enough money to survive off of. But everything broke at once, and I can't fix it. I snapped my glasses in half, my computer broke (it intermittantly shuts off, and all they did at the store was clean it, and it's still broken), and my car has fallen into disrepair.

I've been considering moving out and into my parents house, but not yet
and I'm kinda really sad because I was gonna use that money to go visit my guy (who happens to live in Australia).

Now I'm thinking if I financially plan properlly and work for it, I could go see him at the end of October or the begining of November. But with my current job situation, I don't think I can do anything. Because I'm working 6 days next week, and if I think if I mention this I might get fired. I had to let them know a month in advance that I wanted a weekend off! This is really no way to have to live. And they aren't giving me any privilages (such as access to my personal belongings) because they think that I"m going to be leaving anytime, and then I realize that I'm not leaving any time soon so I'm never going to go get any privilages and...

*sob sob* spiral downwards... *sob sob*

And I really do want to go to gencon. Really really want to. I've wanted to go since I heard of the concept. This was almost 5 years ago. But, here we're back to what work would let me do, I don't think they'll let me have a week off to go galavanting around, and then in september ask for 4 days off to go work the scotish irish festival for the woman I would work for for faire.

Oh faire!

I went to go help two of my friends set up their place to stay on my days off this week, and I realized that I am going to severly miss faire. I want to be working there SO BAD. But I can't. Due to a job I hate.

Why can't things go right?
Oooh! Bor story time for Lilly!

Those here in the States might know the department store Dillard's. Well, I worked for Dillard's National Bank as a debt collector. (Hard to believe that a nice guy like me was the guy calling to demand money from people, eh?) Two months into the job, my dad had open-heart surgery back in NY. I turned to my boss as said, "I'm going," explaining that if something went wrong, I would not allow my final words to my father to be over the phone. All went well with the surgery, but I was delayed returning to AZ by a snow storm during a lay-over in Chicago.

Now, that's a brief and somewhat extreme example of needing time off from work. Still it boils down to one's mental health and emotional well-being. Lilly, if your job is so oppressive that you're not permitted time off to do the things you WANT to do, then I can't help but wonder why you have the job. One gains employment not only to pay the bills, but to be able to afford some of the good things in life. A weekend for Gencon...Time off to work the faire...Time off to see your man, who lives very far away...These are not excessive demands. If it was a weekly thing, where you needed time off for one desire after another, I could see them having cause to complain. But if you've been the faithful employee for some time, I can see no reason why they'd have a right to complain.

If they can't play nice with you, there's no reason to play nice with them. I'm all about being open and honest, but if it comes to your emotional well-being, then LIE! Cite some emergency that you need to attend to, then do as you will. And if that results in them punishing you, it's time to seek new employment.

But, hey...I just had a tooth pulled yesterday and am all goofy on pain meds AGAIN! Feel free to ignore me. :smalltongue:

Gitman00
2007-06-09, 08:43 AM
if it comes to your emotional well-being, then LIE! Cite some emergency that you need to attend to, then do as you will. And if that results in them punishing you, it's time to seek new employment.

I agree with pretty much all of your post except this. I don't think lying is EVER a good idea, no matter how small or well-intentioned. But I'll forgive you. It was probably just the drugs talking. :smallwink:

@ Lilly: A better way to handle it might be to explain the situation and reasons for needing time off honestly, and then, as Bor said, if that results in them punishing you, it's time to seek new employment.

DarkLightDragon
2007-06-09, 10:00 AM
Since I've been posting a lot of negative stuff lately, I'd like to post some positive stuff:

MY BIRTHDAY IS ON THE 11TH!

I've got over the misunderstanding with mum, and am feeling fine at the moment.

I also beat the titan guy from DragonFable (http://www.dragonfable.com)! It took three attempts, but I did it!

@Lilly: I'd quit that job. No job like that job is a job that you should have.

@Bor: Thanks for the stories. It's nice to see that you got some good out of those things.

Glaivemaster
2007-06-09, 01:43 PM
I shouldn't need to ask this but does Bor have a story for, like, everything? I imagine the answer is yes

Lilly: I'd agree with the general consensus of leaving your job and then finding a new one or, if you don't want to break into that spare money yet, finding a new job and then leaving this one.

DLD: I'm glad to see someone is going to have a good time on the 11th. Some of us have exams we haven't done enough work for :smalleek: I'll wish you Happy Birthday now then, since I'll be too tired on Monday

Of course, it's good to hear that your feeling better as well

EmeraldRose
2007-06-09, 02:24 PM
I also agree! Lilly, I think you and I've talked about this before, and I definitely think you need to quit your job! This kind of stress is not good for your mental health, or your physical health!

Plus, if you are stressed and tired all the time, how can you possibly be looking for other, better employment?!?

PM if you need to talk anytime...

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-09, 03:29 PM
I shouldn't need to ask this but does Bor have a story for, like, everything? I imagine the answer is yes
*snip*
As it turns out, I have a story to answer this question! :smallbiggrin:

You must understand that July will bring my 40th birthday, and I've been through a lot. But you may notice that some things on this thread go without a response from me, and that's because I have no experience with such events. I could very well TRY to give advice, but then my lack of experience may make me only seem silly.

And, Gitman, you seem to have snipped the part where I said that I was all about being open and honest. I was actually uncomfortable suggesting lying, but sometimes extreme circumstances call for extreme measures. I'm entirely too forgetful to lie, and usually reveal myself as lying without any need to get caught by someone else.

For example, if I was in Lilly's shoes and used a supposed illness with, say, a cousin, instead of the truth about seeing my romantic interest, my return conversation would go like this:

Boss: So, how was the trip?
Me: Fantastic!
Boss: Fantastic? Ummm...How's your cousin?
Me: Great! We went at it like bunnies in heat most of the weekend.
Boss: (jaw scraping the floor) Your...cousin?!?
Me: Even had a wonderfully romantic dinner at a very expensive restaurant.
Boss: (can only look utterly baffled)
Me: Oops. I mean...it was aweful. Death, dying, misery, etc. The funeral is in two months, and I'll need more time off then.

See? It just wouldn't work. As smart as I am, I just no good at deception and WILL eventually slip up. Hence, I've given up lying...which is why I'm a lonely barbarian monk. Too honest about my baggage, I guess.

Oh well. At least my cat loves me. :smallsmile:

sktarq
2007-06-09, 03:45 PM
Oh well. At least my cat loves me. :smallsmile:


YOUR CAT!? (jaw scraping floor)
I didn't need to know about that-please take your honesty elsewhere!


JK

and even though I am far too good at lying I'd still not recomend it.

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-09, 03:57 PM
YOUR CAT!? (jaw scraping floor)
I didn't need to know about that-please take your honesty elsewhere!

That shameless hussy will love anyone who feeds her, so... :smalltongue:

Nike, my cat, is actually part of my therapy. Her unconditional love is sometimes exactly what I need. And the last few nights, she's been curling up against me while I sleep. When I awaken to find her so close to me, my heart warms up right away. Her desire to be close to me, to be pet, to be fed, etc...It's all very sweet. It's also very dog-like. I mean, she doesn't purr as often as she wags her tail when she's happy.

The funniest is that she's spoiled by my being home so much. Because I'm disabled and far from financially independent, I'm around almost all day. It should also be noted that I keep my windows open to help circulate the air. Should I step out to check the mail or talk to a neighbor, Nike takes up her post at the open window and meows like mad for me to come home. If I happen to be talking to my neighbors, one will eventually joke, "Your wife is calling you." :smalltongue:

Of course, if she could change her cat litter and feed herself, she might not love me nearly as much. Meanwhile, it's nice to know I'm loved somehow, some way. :smallsmile:

DarkLightDragon
2007-06-10, 06:02 AM
@Bor: I found those stories amusing, so I'll share something similar. I was talking to mum today about costume hire as my school has an annual really cool special event on friday, and part of the conversation went along the lines of this:

Mum: ...There's another place which has a good selection as well. They have some adult stuff that might fit you.
Me: *WTF look* adult stuff...?
*short silence*
Mum: Oh, not THAT sort of adult stuff!
Me: Right...
*we both start laughing*
Mum: Adult sized stuff. Although they do have some of that sort there. Nurse's outfits and all that.
Me: *continues laughing*

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-10, 11:34 AM
@Bor: I found those stories amusing, so I'll share something similar. I was talking to mum today about costume hire as my school has an annual really cool special event on friday, and part of the conversation went along the lines of this:

Mum: ...There's another place which has a good selection as well. They have some adult stuff that might fit you.
Me: *WTF look* adult stuff...?
*short silence*
Mum: Oh, not THAT sort of adult stuff!
Me: Right...
*we both start laughing*
Mum: Adult sized stuff. Although they do have some of that sort there. Nurse's outfits and all that.
Me: *continues laughing*
You see?!? I wasn't a dirty old man until dirty young teens came along and threw the dirt on me! :smalltongue:

I've said it before, but it could use a bit of repetition: we need the occasional smile here. Those of us facing psychological diversity need a way to decompress, and it often occurs through humor.

As some of you may know, I'm dealing with a bit of high drama right now. My dearest friend in the known universe, Julie, just had her live-in boyfriend walk out on her. Not only did he do so without warning, but he planned the event in advance and kept it from her. He left her with $40 and a three-and-a-half-year-old son to feed. (Not his kid, but had certainly acted like a father to the boy.)

Julie and I know one another for almost 18 years. (I thought it was officially 18, but she set me straight on that.) Our relationship is such that she and I have a hard time describing it to one another. Put simply, I am closer to no one else on Earth.

Over the years, Julie has been there for me when others have run from my troubled life. The best medicine for me at times has been for me to call her and make her laugh. She appreciates my dry, silly, and/or sarcastic humor, and hearing her laugh has always brightened my day. Circumstances are a bit different, but the routine is the same. I call and make her laugh, and she feels better...as do I.

I need the laughter. On top of my own issues, I now worry about "my Julie." But then, as I said elsewhere, this is when I demonstrate my best qualities. When someone has an emotional crisis, I'm right there, becoming the go-to guy. My broad shoulders are easily leaned or cried upon. Some have suggested that I'm becoming a martyr; that I'm sacrificing my well-being for others when I have worries of my own. Not true.

To exemplify this, I had an emergency tooth extraction Friday morning. While Julie and I have spent several hours on the phone each day since her ex walked out, I called after the tooth was pulled and told her not to call for the weekend, as I could be resting when she wants to talk. She waits for my call or permission online before calling me. She and I agree that sacrificing my health for her lacks all kinds of wisdom.

And still, there is laughter. I can instantly bring a smile to her face when I suggest the parenting technique of using a tranquilizer dart on her active son. Or our old joke of, "It could've been worse...Could've been a rhino." (Too long a story to include here.)

We all have a choice. We can sit in a corner and cry over our problems (which many of us do in private, I'm sure), or we can try to put a humorous spin on matters. As long as I'm capable of it, I will try to do the latter.

Oh...In case you're overlooking it in my sig: BE WELL! :smallsmile:

DarkLightDragon
2007-06-11, 05:47 AM
My first post as a 16-year-old...

HOLY CRAP! I'M 16! GAH!

Been thinking that a lot today... Doesn't feel terribly different from 15, except for feeling weird about being 16 and a fear of getting certain age-related comments (which I'm sure my WoW guild will be happy to make...).

EDIT: I'll share a bit of what happened today:

Waking up: Like normal, wishing it was a weekend and not wanting to get out of bed...

Breakfast: Family (except older bro, he was working) wishes me happy birthday and I get a gift of $60 (could've sworn older bro got 100 on his birthday but not gonna complain... would rather have 60 than nothing, also been known to see/hear/feel things that aren't there so could be wrong...) and an awesome funny card.

School: I'm all like "It's my birthday! It's my birthday! I'm invincible!" attitude, and letting people know about it whenever possible... heh... the people in my art class even sang the birthday song!

I fell asleep (this doesn't happen often) during part of my IT class, but I was facing the computer screen so it looked like I was working really slowly. Being this happy for this long is tiring... *yawn*

Free icecream from the canteen at lunch break! How did the canteen lady know about my birthday? A little birdie told her, apparently. I later found out that the little birdie was my younger bro. Wow. I thought he'd hate me due to the way I can be (usually unintentionally) mean to him sometimes. Maybe he's not that bad...? He's calling be "Birthday Girl" and wishing me happy birthday a fair bit, too, as well as telling everyone else in the family to call me "Birthday Girl"...? Why the hell do I have a problem with not wanting to look at him if he's not always a big idiot...?

I also had quite a few moments of me going "GAH! WTF!" on the inside as the realisation kept hitting me that I'm no longer age 15. I'm gonna miss being 15.

Home: Now... I'm typing this, and waiting for cake. Icecream cake, with bits of those freddo frogs in it. Mmmm.... cake... I'll finish this post, do something quickly, then remind my parents that the cake is waiting...

Oh, and I've got two more cards since this morning, so I have three now. One is from the grandad on my dad's side and his wife (grandma on that side died in 2001 due to bone cancer) and the other was from an aunty who makes awesometasticalness cards for everyone each year.

The party I was gonna have on the weekend has been moved to next weekend... the laser game places must have got pretty popular recently... don't order burgers (I remember eating one on my 14th... didn't taste nice at all!) and you'll have a great time there!

...time to do that something then get the cake! CAKE!

EDIT 2: cake... yummy... :smallbiggrin:

smellie_hippie
2007-06-11, 07:04 AM
Happy Birthday DLD!! Enjoy all the maturity/responsibiliy that being 16 brings! Being Australian, I'm not sure what that would be... but enjoy anyway!:smalltongue:

Bor, it's good to hear that you have such a source of happiness and strength. That special someone is vitally important to have, for everyone. It also doesn't necessarily need to be your spouse... and in some cases shouldn't be your spouse.

Dallas-Dakota... I hope things are starting to clear up with your friend. If things continue to go strangely, drop us another line here to get some more perspective.

Lilly..... quit.:smalltongue: Yeah I know that's easy to say on our part, but completely difficult for you. I would suggest that you check for other options before dropping your 2-weeks, just because it's much "safer" that way. There's also that age old saying: "It's much easier to find a job when you have one."

Hoggy
2007-06-11, 06:28 PM
Okay, download was awesome and all, but I have two gripes.

1) scrubbed

2) Smoked and drinked far far too much. Getting to Machine Head on saturday was so very strenuous. Anyways, seems like slowly giving up on drink and drugs has gone straight out of door and has already ducked into some shady alleyway before I could give chase.

Bugrit.

zeratul
2007-06-11, 06:49 PM
I hath returned for yet more advi e. The resident "girl of questionable honor in relationships" made up a story about having sex with a guy who hung out with a bunch of us and is twenty 1. She ended up getting him arrested, though he is now out on parole. He is not alowed ANY contact with minors. The "girl of questionable honor in relationships " apparently trusts me for some reason and told me she is planning on having someone give an apology note to the guy and asks for my opinon. Any clue on what i should tell her?

No one else gonna say this? Screw loyalty, tell the cops, and have the 21 year old get her charged with Pergery. God this pisses me off. A fine, or some jail time is what she should get.

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-11, 09:41 PM
Okay, download was awesome and all, but I have two gripes.

1) scrubbed

2) Smoked and drinked far far too much. Getting to Machine Head on saturday was so very strenuous. Anyways, seems like slowly giving up on drink and drugs has gone straight out of door and has already ducked into some shady alleyway before I could give chase.

Bugrit.

Sounds like you're fighting against the force of habit, here. Active habits are stengthened by repetition, as the saying goes, and it sounds as if you've made some initial efforts towards giving up (or at least cutting back) on the drugs and alcohol.
I cannot emphasize enough how much I encourage you to work towards eliminating the drugs and moderating the alcohol. It seems as if the problem you described in the scrubbed message was a direct result of the thing you've complained about in the #2.
If you really don't want that kind of thing to happen again (where there could be serious legal consequences), then I'd suggest you redouble your efforts to control yourself.

As for how to do that...it's a bit trickier. From what you say, it sounds as if you recognize that you need to change, but lack the staying power to do it. I suggest that you work on improving your habits; try avoiding the friends or venues or parties that lead inevitably to getting drunk or doing drugs. A social drink is fine, I think, but what you want to avoid is the situation where it becomes the focus of whatever you're doing. Catch a movie, play some football, go golfing, to the arcade, for some pizza, whatever! But I think you definitely ought to avoid places and people around whom drugs and too much alcohol happen.

Good luck with that.

zeratul
2007-06-11, 09:51 PM
Time for me to unload again!

Theres a girl i've liked (possibly loved) for two years now, who is very kind about it, but tends to like other, ass-wholeish guys. She thinks of me more as a brother. The girl I'm starting to like, is one, and a half yaears older than me, and is loved by everyone, we're freinds, but I doubt she likes me.

I know this is a bad reson to be depressed, but it is yet another reason for me none the less.

Hoggy
2007-06-12, 09:15 AM
Perhaps I ought to have clarified: when I said "got with", I do not mean "slept with". Probably lost in communication or something. Anyways, that was more a peeve than something to get angry about; I'd always professed to stick to the +/- 2 years rule before.

If that still needs scrubbage, so be, so be.


As for how to do that...it's a bit trickier. From what you say, it sounds as if you recognize that you need to change, but lack the staying power to do it. I suggest that you work on improving your habits; try avoiding the friends or venues or parties that lead inevitably to getting drunk or doing drugs. A social drink is fine, I think, but what you want to avoid is the situation where it becomes the focus of whatever you're doing. Catch a movie, play some football, go golfing, to the arcade, for some pizza, whatever! But I think you definitely ought to avoid places and people around whom drugs and too much alcohol happen.

Avoiding just about all my friends is something I cannot do. We've stuck together far too long that I can't just leave them like that, I owe them way too much. :smalleek:

And avoiding the venues and parties would mean leaving town, more or less. Sucks, but that's the way it is at my age 'round here.

Perhaps finding some (other) hobbies is a good idea, yeah. But I was never that good at football, and I don't have the money for a sea kayak. And if I did, I'd have spent it on a car anyways, or rent a flat so I can move out.

No arcades. :smallfrown:

Anyways, thanks.

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-12, 09:33 AM
@hoggy

To clarify, you feel that just about all of your friends are those that drink excessively and do drugs? Well, so long as you have other things in common besides those two interests, you don't have to shun them completely; I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if you're serious about changing your habits and you don't think you have the willpower to resist the temptation, then you need to adjust things so that you don't get tempted. Sooner or later, of course, you're going to have to face up to the problem directly.

As to parties, I find it hard to believe that there's nothing for someone to do for fun on the town that doesn't involve rampant alcohol and drugs. There may not be an arcade, but since you apparently have friends that you're very close to, it shouldn't take too much of a stretch of the imagination to work out something you can do. Going to the beach, for example, or playing video games until your eyes bleed, or going down to the hardware store and making up some foam and PVC weapons to battle each other with, or even taking up some kind of sport. Doesn't matter if you're any good at it or not if it's just you and your friends.

I think you'll find that there are alternatives, but I strongly believe that if you truly want to moderate your intake and cut out the drugs, it's going to take commitment on your part, and maybe even some sacrifice.

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-12, 11:48 AM
@ TGS and, vicariously, Hoggy: I'm afraid I have to disagree to a certain extent. One's friends can be a terrible influence on one's behavior. I can even muster a Bor story to cite this example.

A hundred thousand years ago, when I was but a youth... :smallwink: ...I had a group of friends who would engage in substances that were far from legal. There was no pressure from them to try said substances, but I was always around them. Curiosity got the better of me, and I finally did. The narcotic adventures that followed produced some of the fonder memories of my youth.

Ah, but I was going to be a "smart" user. Believe it or not, I set up rules for myself. 1. I would never buy them. 2. I would never do them alone. Ah, but that euphoric state while under the influence seemed to be the perfect escape from the home life that was plaguing me, and I found myself breaking my self-set rules after only a couple of years.

Several incidents gave me a harsh awakening.

The first was after a night of partying with my friends. We'd taken a drive to a place called "Mount Misery." It was called this because it was a paved, narrow, winding, hilly road with no streetlights, and many a foolish teen would drive along it at night without headlights, just for the thrill. I remember being there and driving with a carload of friends (headlights on, thank goodness), but I don't remember driving there. Nor do I remember driving home. That I could have been responsible for half a dozen deaths haunts me to this day.

Next was an incident with a friend who fell victim to an "adrenaline loop." In his altered state, he became fascinated with the beating of his heart, which he thought was beating faster than normal. This scared him, producing adrenaline, which made his heart beat faster, which made him panic, which introduced more adrenaline, which made his heart beat even faster, which...Well, you can see how he ended up hospitalized for almost having a heart attack before the age of 20.

The final wake up call for me was my waking up and feeling sick as a dog after every night of partying. Diabetes and drugs do NOT mix. You see, I would eat while under the influence. I would joke that I would eat the entire kitchen, including appliances, eating utensils, etc. Alas, I never had the presence of mind to take more insulin to compensate for such caloric intake. Thus, I would wake the next day with a bloodsugar that was sky-high. The time had come to stop my foolish behavior.

Time passed, and such people exited my life. I miss my friends, but I don't miss the partying. Part of the reason why my diabetes has handicapped me is because of those foolish years when I sought to self-medicate. Those people, without any effort on their part, influenced me into a lifestyle that was truly detrimental to my health.

This is why I make the recommendations that I do. There has to be a better way to handle one's problems. Proper, legal medications. Therapy. Hobbies that engage and distract the mind. If it requires a change in one's social circles, so be it. Since I never did anything truly addicting, I suppose I was lucky. But sometimes the addiction is psychological, influenced by circumstance. These substances may SEEM like a good way to temporarily escape the problems, but are nightmarishly detrimental in the long run.

Find the alternatives. Make the sacrifices. And be well. :smallsmile:

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-12, 03:33 PM
Iīm sleepy but Iīm not sleepy, Iīm active yet inactive.
I must go to bed, But I dont want to.
dungeon siege II is so cool! thatīs an awesome character!

Hmmm I think iīm going to bed after playing a īfewī hours....which I more then happy already did.........

LurkerinthePlaygnd
2007-06-13, 12:16 AM
These substances may SEEM like a good way to temporarily escape the problems, but are nightmarishly detrimental in the long run.

I can attest to that.


But sometimes the addiction is psychological, influenced by circumstance.

Addiction is mainly a chemical thing. Drugs cause excessive release of chemicals such as dopamine into the brain's neuroreceptors. Dopamine is a "reward" chemical (survival mechanism), produced by many things, including sex and eating. This overstimulation leads the brain to crave more and more. Eventually, a tolerance is built up, requiring more and more of the drug to produce the same amount of dopamine. It's a vicious cycle. This is a very brief description of how addiction works.

There may be underlying psychological problems that lead to taking drugs, but once addiction takes hold, it's a fairly simple chemical equation.

@Hoggy: If you feel as if your losing control to drugs and alcohol, I suggest seeking professional help coupled with a self-help program.

As to the friend thing: if you are seriously trying to quit, you have to remove yourself from the influence. True friends will understand. I had to ditch most of my old friends when I quit. I still talk to a couple on the phone every now and then, but so long as they're still drinking and drugging, I won't, for my own well-being survival, hang out with them anymore.

There's a saying: If you hang around in a barber shop long enough, you're gonna get a haircut sooner or later.

DarthArminius
2007-06-13, 12:23 AM
I'm depressed because I was forced to have sex.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-13, 12:29 AM
wat...um thats NOT good........
Itīl clear up somethings if you said who it was...

DarthArminius
2007-06-13, 12:33 AM
Five, teenagers broke into "Dad's" house while he was outside and then did the deed. It was 17 years ago. I'm twenty three now. All I can remember thinking is that it had to be a silent break in, unless he was drunk or something.

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-13, 10:03 AM
Ummm...Wow...That's quite the bomb to drop on the thread without some kind of preamble.

Armin, that kind of trauma is difficult to address on a forum. It takes an intense amount of bravery to say something about it, and I must commend you for doing as much.

That said, I don't think every day methods of dealing with stress are going to do the trick. This calls for a professional and, quite possibly, medication. My completely unprofessional guess is that you have post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

For those who haven't guessed, it's time for a Bor story.

Prior to receiving disability money from the government, I lived in a boarding house. This is not to be confused with the 1950's version of a boarding house, where everyone had a private room and was served three meals a day. No, this was a house that was falling apart, absolutely filthy, and one meal served a day. And my roommate was my first real encounter with an alcoholic.

I didn't fully grasp the concept of alcoholism until I'd met my roommate. His money would come at the beginning of the month, he would pay his rent, and then he would start to drink...and wouldn't stop until the money had run out about two weeks later. He was fall-down, blind-as-a-bat, dumb-as-a-stick drunk 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Because of my helpful nature, the landlord made me his babysitter. It became my job to search for his booze while he was passed out and give it to her. She would then pour it out and verbally give him hell.

July 2, 2002, I was drifting off to sleep after a late night of reading. I was almost completely asleep when the world seemed to explode around me. For the briefest of moments, I thought I was experiencing a violent dream. Then I was awake and screaming in terror, fending off my drunken roommate as he continued to try and hit me in the head with a makeshift wooden club. I earned six or seven staples in my head for his efforts, and was lucky that he was drunk, or I might have ended up with a concussion.

This experience added PTSD to my list of illnesses. Sudden loud noises don't do well with me, especially when I'm asleep. I don't sleep well at all, and require prescription meds to calm myself to sleep. I have an irrational fear of rather rough looking strangers, even though they might be the kindest of souls. Memories of past traumas that seemed to have dismissed have surfaced with frightening clarity. I could use some therapy, but such a thing remains inconsistent for those whole rely on government aid to pay the medical bills. Meanwhile, at least I have psychiatrists to help deal with the trauma.

Please, Armin...Seek appropriate medical aid.

Hoggy
2007-06-13, 11:17 AM
Bor hath compelled me. Allow me first to stock up on some hot ribena for my poor throat, and, er, to get dressed, and postage shall be.

Rightyho then, let's go.


To clarify, you feel that just about all of your friends are those that drink excessively and do drugs? Well, so long as you have other things in common besides those two interests, you don't have to shun them completely; I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if you're serious about changing your habits and you don't think you have the willpower to resist the temptation, then you need to adjust things so that you don't get tempted. Sooner or later, of course, you're going to have to face up to the problem directly.

Well, yes, most of them are. I did have some more 'geeky' friends from when I used to play DnD and stuff, but I fell out with them a bit. And as for temptation, about every second person round here drinks excessivly or does drugs excessivly, so that's kind of difficult.

Okay, I might be exxagerating slightly, but there's still a helluva lot of it around.


As to parties, I find it hard to believe that there's nothing for someone to do for fun on the town that doesn't involve rampant alcohol and drugs. There may not be an arcade, but since you apparently have friends that you're very close to, it shouldn't take too much of a stretch of the imagination to work out something you can do. Going to the beach, for example, or playing video games until your eyes bleed, or going down to the hardware store and making up some foam and PVC weapons to battle each other with, or even taking up some kind of sport. Doesn't matter if you're any good at it or not if it's just you and your friends.

We go to the beach sometimes and surf, then smoke and drink the night away.
We smoke and drink whislt playing video games.
For sport, see beach.
That's the problem. It's become a way of life for us. :smallannoyed:


I think you'll find that there are alternatives, but I strongly believe that if you truly want to moderate your intake and cut out the drugs, it's going to take commitment on your part, and maybe even some sacrifice.

I suck at sacrifice and commitment. Example of sucking at commitment: New Year's resolution was to give up smoking. I was proud it lasted 13 and a half hours.

Next!


@ TGS and, vicariously, Hoggy: I'm afraid I have to disagree to a certain extent. One's friends can be a terrible influence on one's behavior. I can even muster a Bor story to cite this example.

Please allow me to look up vicariously one second.

Ah. I see.


Ah, but I was going to be a "smart" user. Believe it or not, I set up rules for myself. 1. I would never buy them. 2. I would never do them alone. Ah, but that euphoric state while under the influence seemed to be the perfect escape from the home life that was plaguing me, and I found myself breaking my self-set rules after only a couple of years.

I had rules too!
1) Never do drugs alone
2) Never bring drugs home
I broke both of them too.


Several incidents gave me a harsh awakening.

Likewise. One was waking up in a pool of vomit after a christmas party. It was one of the more unpleasant things I've done.


These substances may SEEM like a good way to temporarily escape the problems, but are nightmarishly detrimental in the long run.

I had noticed. :smalltongue:

Moving on oncemore...


If you feel as if your losing control to drugs and alcohol, I suggest seeking professional help coupled with a self-help program.

I tried, it didn't really work out. I now suffer from a lack of trust in these so-called 'professionals'.


As to the friend thing: if you are seriously trying to quit, you have to remove yourself from the influence. True friends will understand. I had to ditch most of my old friends when I quit. I still talk to a couple on the phone every now and then, but so long as they're still drinking and drugging, I won't, for my own well-being survival, hang out with them anymore.

Hmmm... let me list those I class as true friends.
1) Got me into drugs in the first place, now lives about 2 hours away.
2) Lives in Croatia.
3) Lives the other side of the country.
Slight predicament there. I mean, there are many I class as friends, and many I class as close friends, but I don't trust people quite enough to calss them as true friends. How jolly of me.

Anyways, I do beleive that is all, so toodlepip for now, and thank each and every one of you.

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-13, 11:53 AM
We go to the beach sometimes and surf, then smoke and drink the night away.
We smoke and drink whislt playing video games.
For sport, see beach.
That's the problem. It's become a way of life for us. :smallannoyed:

That is a problem. A BIG problem, in my opinion. It also worries me, because it's ingraining the habit even further by association; the more often you do these things while having fun, the harder it will be to have fun without doing them. Even worse, it looks like drinks and drugs have become the focal point of how you associate with your friends. I wouldn't be so worried about this if you gave some indication that you have other social activities that don't rely on these two things.



I suck at sacrifice and commitment.
That's a problem too, but I'll let you in on a secret; sacrifice and commitment isn't easy for anyone. If it were, it wouldn't be sacrifice. At bottom, if you're serious about changing your habits, you're going to have to force yourself to do it. It won't be fun, and it'll be hard, and you may have to give up on some of your buddies, but unless you change...
Vomit will be your pillow and hangovers will greet you each morning, and liver trouble will be your companion in old age. If you reach it.

I don't think I can give you any better advice than that. Good luck.

Narmoth
2007-06-13, 02:23 PM
Five, teenagers broke into "Dad's" house while he was outside and then did the deed. It was 17 years ago. I'm twenty three now. All I can remember thinking is that it had to be a silent break in, unless he was drunk or something.

Ehm. Don't really know what to say. I'm sorry. I wish I could help. I hope you at least alow me to complement you on your bravery to come forth with this. Hopefully, someone, like Bor allready has, will be able to give you good advice on your situation.

smellie_hippie
2007-06-14, 06:45 AM
Armin: Bor hit the nail on the head. (sorry if that's a bad pun or too cliche) You could be suffering from some serious psychological trauma. We're here to help you through some of your ordeal... but we have limits. Your needs are fairly well beyond ours. I hop you can find a therapist or at leats someone you can trust to talk about these feelings you are having as a result of what happened.

Hoggy: There's a critical key to overcoming addiction. You need to replace it with something else. We could talk about the negative effects it's having on your health, your lifestyle... potentially your freedom. But we would never be addressing the enjoyable feeling of "the high". I mean... that's the whole point of doing drugs in the first place. Yes some people use them as coping tools, others succomb to peer pressure, still others try to overcome shortcomings with drugs. Bottom line is... if you don't enjoy the high, you wouldn't be doing them in the first place.

Ok. So start slow, and make some more obtainable goals. You already broke your first two rules, so make some smaller ones.
"I'll use less this week."
"I'll stay clean for one whole day."
"I'll drop using alcohol for a week, but will still smoke pot."

If you can accomplish one of these lesser goals, you will start building the confidence to make another one. Keep in the back of your mind the following thought... You wouldn't be here asking for help if you weren't thinking of quitting.

blackfox
2007-06-14, 09:48 AM
Is it possible to get seasonal depression in the summer? :smallconfused:

Bor the Barbarian Monk
2007-06-14, 01:43 PM
Is it possible to get seasonal depression in the summer? :smallconfused:
My answer: of course!

Different events during a certain time of year can trigger emotional reactions. For many, the holiday season of Christmas, etc, represents togetherness and good will. Despite never being alone, people can still feel lonely.

One of my mottos is: Never alone, always lonely. It probably points toward a symptom of my depression. Even when among friends and family, and even when I've had a romantic life, some part of me never quite felt like it fit in. For me, it was the holiday season, and still is.

Back to your question, Blackfox...I imagine you've asked because you, or someone elese you know, is feeling this way. I don't have an answer for the immediate issue. That is, I don't know what to tell you to get through the depression which relies heavily on the season. I'm depressed all the time. It's hard to see from my posts, as they come through with clarity and even some humor from time to time. I guard against it, and have luckily avoided hospitalization, thanks to...a cat.

Yes, a cat. My little Nike keeps me from going to the hospital out of a fear that no one will be around to take care of her. It seems silly, but my caring for this loving little beast has been infinitely helpful in anchoring me outside various institutions.

My advice is to do your best to guard against the severity of the depression. You need not watch it like a hawk seeking prey, but keep an eye on it. If destructive thoughts start to invade the mind, GET HELP! Don't wait for the thoughts to settle and grow. Get help when they start to arrive.

@ Hippie: (Nail on the head...I'll get you, Hippie! And your little dog, too!) It's somewhat comforting to see the professional agree. It reaffirms that I'm on the right track...somewhere.

@ Everyone: Through experience, personal and as a witness, mental illness can have horrific effects when they take root and remain unattended. They are much like weeds. Their roots go deep, and they can affact every aspect of your life. There are some things that flow over you like water in a stream; they wash over you and move on. Breaking up with a romantic interest, losing a job, failing a course in school, an argument with a friend. These events can result in what I call "a case of the blues." In time, the feeling will go away.

Other events - traumatic events - can have a very different reaction. The mind is a wondrous organ, and remains a mystery to some degree, even to those engaged in its study. Depression, OCD, ADD, schizophrenia, paranoia...It seems like we know how to treat these things, but we have little understanding of WHY they happen. Oh, we can point to various reasons and theorize, quite logically, as to why something is happening in the brain. But there are few, if any, solidified answers.

So we watch. We feel a symptom and we watch. It's all we can do. When these symptoms become invasive into one's life - the moment it's noticed...that's when we need to get help. If you're young, tell an adult whom you trust. If you're an adult, tell a trusted friend and then get help. Do your best to find some support in your quest, but GET HELP!

I have Bor stories about such things, but I believe this post is long enough. :smallredface:

blackfox
2007-06-14, 04:53 PM
Back to your question, Blackfox...I imagine you've asked because you, or someone else you know, is feeling this way.You guessed right.


Yes, a cat. My little Nike keeps me from going to the hospital out of a fear that no one will be around to take care of her. It seems silly, but my caring for this loving little beast has been infinitely helpful in anchoring me outside various institutions.:smallsigh: I wish I could have a cat... my dad's allergic.


My advice is to do your best to guard against the severity of the depression. You need not watch it like a hawk seeking prey, but keep an eye on it. If destructive thoughts start to invade the mind, GET HELP! Don't wait for the thoughts to settle and grow. Get help when they start to arrive.My friends would probably be the best help with this... at least they were before, when they threw a surprise birthday party for me, it made me happy, appreciative, etc. :smallbiggrin: (Which was a week or so after school ended, and maybe two or three weeks after the teachers stopped assigning homework. And it wasn't even my birthday.) Now that it's summer I don't see them on a daily basis because I'm not at school... I've been trying to do something with friends at least once a week or so... maybe seeing them more often would help. I'm going on a family vacation for a week starting Saturday though... don't know what to do about that. At least it's to the beach where the ocean will cool it down. Heat is evil.

...I hate Virginia.

Dallas-Dakota
2007-06-15, 12:23 AM
I'm very sad, becouse I wont pass.............
yesterday my parents told me they discussed it with my school,that the chance was 0.0001 that I am going to pass........

and I am/was in such a great class...........

Yiel
2007-06-15, 12:42 AM
I need to ask some advice from the wise on this forum thread.

As a young teenager I was prescribed a type of Methylphenidate (a commonly known one is Ritalin). As a young adult I decided that I did not want to be medicated and with the help of my local doctor, stopped taking them after 7 years.

Now, with three years off this medication, my doctor has recommended I go back on it for something entirely different to my original prescription. (I have my attention problems controlled through other non-medication methods now.)

The question: Should I find other ways of managing my mental & physical health? Or should I let them put me under the influence of this stimulant again?

Rex Idiotarum
2007-06-15, 12:55 AM
Do whatever feels right. I've been on pills for the last few years, and I think I may have become a little addicted. If you truly feel worse when you are off them, like I do, then I suggest you consider the pills, If you don't like it don't do it. What pills does he want to put you on?

Meditation is probably one of the worst ideas of curing ADD. How is a person with no attention span suppose to be able to clear their mind?

thehothead
2007-06-15, 01:19 AM
I guess I'm not so much depressed as apathitic, but I'm getting the feeling that apathy is worse. At least depression would be motivating me to do something Even if something bad. seriously, we had to write a poem in class, and the ONLY subject I could think about was apathy. So I wrote a large poem about apathy.

The cause of my apathy is my feeling of purposelessness. I have no idea where, when, or how this started, but it did. I'm not entirely upset that it happened, sinse it motivated me to make one of the most relieving decisions of my life but it's causing my apathy.

Cut to now. I don't care about ANYTHING long term. I have about 8 days to turn in enough late work to get my grade from a D to a B, and I'm posting a forum. Seriously, this had me considering suicide at one point (No real chance of that, but I considered none-the-less)

SweetLikeLemons
2007-06-15, 02:01 AM
Do whatever feels right. I've been on pills for the last few years, and I think I may have become a little addicted. If you truly feel worse when you are off them, like I do, then I suggest you consider the pills, If you don't like it don't do it. What pills does he want to put you on?

Meditation is probably one of the worst ideas of curing ADD. How is a person with no attention span suppose to be able to clear their mind?

I personally have found meditation to be a pretty useful exercise for dealing with ADD. Clearing one's mind may be very difficult for someone with no attention span, just as physical exercise may be very difficult for someone who is obese. That doesn't mean that an overweight person shouldn't exercise, in fact, it is probably a very good idea for them do so.

I dunno. I find it helpful, but everyone is different. I would say it's worth looking into, though.

Narmoth
2007-06-15, 04:11 AM
I need to ask some advice from the wise on this forum thread.

As a young teenager I was prescribed a type of Methylphenidate (a commonly known one is Ritalin). As a young adult I decided that I did not want to be medicated and with the help of my local doctor, stopped taking them after 7 years.

Now, with three years off this medication, my doctor has recommended I go back on it for something entirely different to my original prescription. (I have my attention problems controlled through other non-medication methods now.)

The question: Should I find other ways of managing my mental & physical health? Or should I let them put me under the influence of this stimulant again?


The question really depends on what the new condition is. At present, methylphenidate is investigated for causing heart problems. In a study we did at the local hospital (in TromsÝ, Norway that is) we could not find a connection, but I would still be carefull with it if you have heart problems or blood pressure problems. I suggest you read about the drug yourself so you know what to ask you doctor about.
ADHD Drugs and Cardiovascular Risk
Steven E. Nissen, M.D.
On February 9, 2006, the Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) voted by a narrow margin ó eight to seven ó to recommend a "black-box" warning describing the cardiovascular risks of stimulant drugs used to treat attention deficitĖhyperactivity disorder (ADHD). This action was unexpected, largely because the FDA had not requested a review of current labeling for this class of drugs; it had merely asked for recommendations of approaches to studying the cardiovascular risks associated with these drugs. The committee, however, decided to take an independent course. As a consultant to this committee, I introduced two motions, one recommending the black-box warning and the other proposing the development of a guide for patients, which was approved by a vote of 15 to 0. The guides are handouts that are required to be provided at the time prescriptions are dispensed; they contain information, written in nontechnical language, about the potential hazards of the medication.
The drugs under review were primarily amphetamines (Adderall and other brands) and methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta, and other brands). These agents are closely related members of the class of sympathomimetic amines, the structures of several of which are shown in the diagram. These compounds exert potent stimulant effects on the cardiovascular and central nervous systems. One of the oldest such agents, methamphetamine, was originally synthesized in 1891 and first widely used during World War II in Nazi Germany to enhance the ability of Luftwaffe pilots to stay alert during extended hours of combat. Medical use of this agent is now limited, but illicit use has grown rapidly and now represents an increasing public health problem. When smoked or injected intravenously, methamphetamine ("speed") is associated with hyperthermia, rhabdomyolysis, myocardial infarction, stroke, and sudden death ó effects well known to coroners in regions of the United States where abuse is common. Beginning in the 1950s, the stereoisomer dextroamphetamine and related agents were introduced as appetite suppressants.
ADHD is a disorder commonly diagnosed in school-age boys (less commonly in girls) and is characterized by increased activity, an inability to concentrate, and poor school performance. The effectiveness of stimulants in treating ADHD has been well documented in randomized clinical trials. Amphetamines and amphetamine-like stimulants were introduced to treat ADHD in the 1950s, but the frequency of this diagnosis and the use of stimulants to treat it have accelerated enormously in recent years. The FDA advisory committee heard testimony indicating that 2.5 million children now take stimulants for ADHD, including nearly 10 percent of all 10-year-old boys in the United States.1 The committee also learned that the use of these agents is much less prevalent in European countries, where the diagnosis of ADHD is relatively uncommon. Even more strikingly, 1.5 million adults now take such stimulants on a daily basis, with 10 percent of users older than 50 years of age. The diagnosis of "adult" ADHD is a relatively recent phenomenon and has resulted in the most rapid growth in the use of such agents.1
The concern of the advisory committee reflected several considerations. The cardiovascular effects of the sympathomimetic amines have been thoroughly described in the medical literature. These agents substantially increase the heart rate and blood pressure. In a placebo-controlled trial, mixed amphetamine salts (Adderall) administered to adults increased systolic blood pressure by about 5 mm Hg; similar effects were found with methylphenidate formulations.2 Blood-pressure changes of this magnitude, particularly during long-term therapy, are known to increase morbidity and mortality. In 2005, a separate FDA advisory committee that I chaired concluded that blood-pressure changes represented such a reliable predictor of cardiovascular outcomes that class labeling would be appropriate in most cases.3 The increases in heart rate induced by sympathomimetic agents also have well-described adverse cardiovascular effects. The administration of these drugs produces persistent increases in heart rate, inducing chronic heart failure in animal models of dilated cardiomyopathy.
A review of the regulatory history of this class of drugs also helps to explain why the advisory committee took decisive action. The dietary supplement ephedra, sometimes called ma huang, contains two alkaloids, ephedrine (see diagram) and its enantiomer, pseudoephedrine. These supplements have been used by millions of Americans to assist in weight loss or to increase energy. Some athletes have advocated the use of ephedra-containing dietary supplements as performance-enhancing agents. On December 31, 2003, federal officials announced plans to ban ephedra immediately. Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson told reporters, "The time to stop using these products is now." This action followed several high-profile catastrophic outcomes linked to ephedra products, including the death of 23-year-old Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler. Published studies reported that sales of ephedra-containing supplements represented less than 1 percent of all dietary-supplement sales but that these products accounted for 64 percent of the serious adverse reactions to supplements reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.4 Unfortunately, in April 2005, a federal court in Utah struck down the federal ban on ephedra. Many companies that make these products are located in Utah.
Similar regulatory actions have been proposed for phenylpropanolamine (PPA), another closely related sympathomimetic amine (see diagram). On December 22, 2005, the FDA issued a notice of "proposed rulemaking for over-the-counter nasal decongestant and weight control products" containing PPA. The notice called for a public comment period until March 22, 2006, after which the FDA would undertake regulatory action that would probably include banning the use of the agent in over-the-counter preparations. The FDA's action followed many years of concern about the potential of PPA products to cause hemorrhagic stroke. Six years ago, a caseĖcontrol study published in the Journal reported a 16-fold increase in the risk of stroke among women taking PPA for appetite suppression.5
Briefing documents prepared for the February 9 advisory-committee meeting described cases of myocardial infarction, stroke, and sudden death in children and adults taking ADHD stimulants.1 These narratives were derived from the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System (AERS), a database containing reports of adverse events submitted by health care providers. The AERS is a voluntary reporting system that has been criticized because only 1 to 10 percent of serious adverse events are actually reported, limiting the database's usefulness for identifying emerging drug hazards. The drug-related events reviewed by the committee included 25 cases of sudden death in children or adults (see table), some with evidence on autopsy of undiagnosed congenital heart disease, such as hypertrophic obstructive cardiomyopathy. The physiology of this condition renders patients particularly vulnerable to the adverse effects of sympathomimetic drugs, because such agents increase contractility, thereby increasing the pressure gradient in the left ventricular outflow tract. Many additional cases of major adverse cardiovascular events, including myocardial infarction, stroke, and serious arrhythmias, were reviewed by the committee. However, the documentation of cases was frequently incomplete, and neither the FDA reviewers nor the committee considered the AERS data to be definitive.
Despite the difficulty of interpreting these data, the advisory committee acted preemptively to recommend strong regulatory action. The majority of the group accepted my argument that the propensity of sympathomimetic agents to raise blood pressure and heart rate, the history of serious adverse effects associated with two members of the class (ephedra and PPA), and the rapid increase in exposure, particularly among adults, warranted strong and immediate action. Although the committee recognized that there are important potential benefits of these drugs for certain highly dysfunctional children, we rejected the notion that the administration of potent sympathomimetic agents to millions of Americans is appropriate. We sought to emphasize more selective and restricted use, while increasing awareness of potential hazards. We argued that the FDA should act soon, and decisively.

Source Information
Dr. Nissen is the interim chairman of the Department of Cardiovascular Medicine at the Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, and was a consultant to the FDA's Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee for the hearings on ADHD drugs.

This article was published at www.nejm.org on March 20, 2006.

An interview with Dr. Nissen can be heard at www.nejm.org.
References
1. Food and Drug Administration. Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee Meeting, February 9 and 10, 2006: table of contents. (Accessed March 16, 2006, at http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/06/briefing/2006-4202_00_TOC.htm.)
2. Wilens TE, Hammerness PG, Biederman J, et al. Blood pressure changes associated with medication treatment of adults with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. J Clin Psychiatry 2005;66:253-259. [ISI][Medline]
3. Nissen SE, Cardiovascular and Renal Drugs Advisory Committee. Report from the Cardiovascular and Renal Drugs Advisory Committee: US Food and Drug Administration: June 15-16, 2005: Gaithersburg, Md. Circulation 2005;112:2043-2046. [Medline]
4. Kingston RL, Borron SW. The relative safety of ephedra compared with other herbal products. Ann Intern Med 2003;139:385-385. [Medline]
5. Kernan WN, Viscoli CM, Brass LM, et al. Phenylpropanolamine and the risk of hemorrhagic stroke. N Engl J Med 2000;343:1826-1832. [Free Full Text]

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-15, 07:23 AM
I guess I'm not so much depressed as apathitic, but I'm getting the feeling that apathy is worse. At least depression would be motivating me to do something Even if something bad. seriously, we had to write a poem in class, and the ONLY subject I could think about was apathy. So I wrote a large poem about apathy.

The cause of my apathy is my feeling of purposelessness. I have no idea where, when, or how this started, but it did. I'm not entirely upset that it happened, sinse it motivated me to make one of the most relieving decisions of my life but it's causing my apathy.

Cut to now. I don't care about ANYTHING long term. I have about 8 days to turn in enough late work to get my grade from a D to a B, and I'm posting a forum. Seriously, this had me considering suicide at one point (No real chance of that, but I considered none-the-less)

Believe it or not, I know someone else in a very similar situation in RL, which led me to coin the phrase;
"Apathy is the most Dangerous of Anodynes. It's addicting, but it gives you no joy. It's better to live and love and hurt than to live your life in a gray shell of apathy, feeling nothing for fear of feeling pain."

I hesitate to jump and label the two cases as identical, however; I'm still really trying to understand precisely what's motivating the apathy.

So I'll pepper you with some questions;
You say that you have no long-term ambitions...suppose someone said that having a good education is the key to getting the job you want. What's your reaction?

Is it that you feel that any endeavor is ultimately pointless, and therefore not worth doing, or that it would be waste of effort?

Also, can you expand a little on the "relieving decision" that the sense of purposelessness empowered you to make?

smellie_hippie
2007-06-15, 03:05 PM
Yiel: Some doctors prescribe medications in an effort to tap into some of their side effects. Discuss with your doctor his/her rational for starting you back on any kind of medication, and if there are any other alternative if you are concerned about starting them again.

thehothead: Finding yourself apathetic is a struggle that few people will be able to help pull you out of. If I had the "miracle cure" to making you feel motivated and you turned everything around, you wouldn't know how to get out if you started feeling that way again... except to ask me for help. Sorry for the tough love, but you should use this time for self-reflection in finding your own key to motivation.

dallasdakota: I'm sorry for your academic situation. Is there any chance that those classes you did poorly in could be caught up during the summer? That would give you the opportunity to stay with the class you enjoy and graduate with them? If that's not an option, then I can offer nothing but sympathy, and hope you do well next school year.

ocato
2007-06-15, 11:04 PM
I'm going to preface this by saying that I try very hard to never, ever complain about my life because compared to starving babies and african refugees, I live like a king. However, I've been doing fairly poorly lately and perhaps a little venting will help me feel better. Prepare for a lot of text. I kind of wish there was a way to post this anonymously. I apologize if it is frantic and disjointed.

Right after I graduated High school, my parents opted to move our family from Virginia to Indiana. All of my friends, everything I knew, it all just flushed away because my dad retired and wanted to live near his extended family. I don't know exactly why he thought this was a good idea, because frankly we rarely if ever talk to them. After that, I spent about a year working and sitting around playing world of warcraft, because heck, I had nothing else to do. I wasn't able to start college for another year because of the move, so I just wasted my life. I worked one part time job, then later I got a full time job to go with it. I was working 60 hour weeks busting my hump. My mother and sister weren't working at all and my dad had gotten a security job in a nearby bigger town (we live in a little burg with a C-rate amusement park attached to it). He works pretty hard even though he is retired, and I worked pretty hard too. I lost all touch with all of my virginia friends, and also two internet friends from Texas who were both very important to me. This move also cost me my first big relationship, even though she lived in Maryland. Pretty much I lack the social graces to meet people in real life and all of my relationships are initiated through the internet. Because I am a giant creep.

So, I sorta snap out of my little haze of work and World of Warcraft (which I used as a big time escape mechanism. I mean, I stopped talking to people I lived with, I would go from the front door to my bedroom, from my room to the fridge/bathroom and so on, I had no interest in anyone) and started talking to 'my girls' again. We'll call them C and T. C was still a good friend but we just didn't click too well. T was pretty much my absolute best friend. I mean, in everything. She had found some guy to be her boyfriend, and I did and still do despise him on a fundamental level. But she and I were pretty much madly in love with one another, at least that's how I see it in hindsight. She was torn between the two of us and he won. However, the fact of the matter is that she and I continued to be absolutely within each other's minds at all times. I mean, we thought the same, we talked about the same stuff, we liked the same stuff. We were understood each other on a level that no one had ever understood me before. Time went on and I started college, which was about 50mi away, as the bird flies. Roads? Less straight. So, 4 days a week I had to drive ~90 minutes to and from college. I kept to myself as I often do, reading my books by myself and getting straight As. I'm a smart kid and there was nothing else to focus on but school. and T. However, T was pretty much solid in her decision to stick with the new boyfriend. She also knew that C had a big crush on me, and sort of orchestrated things to the point where C and I developed a relationship. This sounds like it's somehow illegit, but honestly, I loved C and she loved me. I made arrangements and visited them both over my spring break. Unfortunately, some jealousy in T rose up when she realized that shifting my affections onto C meant shifting my attention as well, and T and I ended up having an affair while I was visiting. After that was admitted to, C was very upset but stuck by me (she's an angel) and T was forbidden by her boyfriend to speak to me ever again. C and I eventually split later for other reasons (mostly because it was a distance relationship and that doesn't always work out very well). I spun into a pretty bad way after that. I mean, I'd lost the only two people I had left in the world. Worse yet, C went off to college and I started hearing through the grapevine about her alcohol, sex, and crazy related antics that many young freshmen in college partake in. Each word was like being stabbed.

This was about a year ago. I briefly reconnected with my Virginia friends but it all fell through and I never talk to them anymore. College has really spiraled out of control. I stopped going to classes. I mean, 15% of my final grade was carved off my History grade (and I was qualified to teach that class, by the way) for lack of attendance. I just lost the will to be there. SInce then I've applied to transfer from my community college which is affiliated with IU to IU proper. When I went to IU proper to fill out some paperwork and visit the campus, I stayed with my sister who has been going there for a year, for the day. I hung out with her and her boyfriend and it became painfully aware that they are the sophisticated Bloomington collegiates and I am the yokel from upstate. This isn't the beginning of this, my entire life I have been terribly enraged by the prospect of being set aside because I wasn't good enough. Pretty much they acted like they were better than me the whole time. Worse yet, I haven't heard back from IU, which means that I might not get to go. If I don't get into IU, I really feel my life is pretty much done. I'm studying History Education but only because it's so easy, I could probably do it. I bet my C in US history 1875-1975 probably will keep me out of school. I just don't know what happens then, but it probably involves forgetting about everything that holds me back and just... I dunno.

My job is terrible. They treat me like a putz even though I work pretty hard for them. There are too many people there. They get too close to me, and I begin to feel very trapped. I keep getting interrupted by customers with really, incredibly stupid questions that are based on their lack of willingness to look around them. I just feel very anxious around people I don't know, and around large groups of strangers. I get trapped out on the floor trying to stock shelves, and I get very upset. I've always had a mean streak, and I pretty much have to go into the back and break something, punch the walls, rip stuff off the walls and go berzerk. Today I turned and a woman was literally 5 inches from my face, and I quelled the urge to scream so hard that I felt my entire sinus cavaty quiver. The sound inside my skull was nearly deafening. It takes all of my self control not to go and start fighting people. I'm getting very violent. I told my sister's boyfriend if I heard any hanky panky in her room while he was vsiting, I would come into their room in the night and cut his throat. I threaten and seriously restrain myself from serious violence on a regular basis.

Since college started back in 04 I had a stretch where I wanted to kill myself. Really, for serious kill myself. I even planned it. Infact, I set a date and everything, but I couldn't find my razorblades. I think they were discovered and hidden from me, but I can't say for sure. On more than a few occasions, I've tried to pick the lock on the plastic fireproof case my dad keeps his pistol in.

I started talking to T again, and she thinks I need therapy. Pretty much, I am obsessed with a fear of what other people think of me. I think that everyone thinks they are better than me and/or hates me. I'm paranoid about it. I am also fundamentally ashamed of absolutely everything I like. Fantasy, Sci Fi stuff, etc etc. I mean, I change the channel if I'm watching something and someone comes in. People talk about stuff I like and I walk away instead of making friends. I'm afraid everyone will think I'm a nerd and make fun of me and beat me up like in Jr. High school.

I'm always thirsty, I drink pop way too much. I'm pretty sure I need to go to the doctor (I might have diabetes) but I refuse to trouble my dad with this crap. He cares if I am sick and my teeth hurt, but he works really hard (my mom decided they were going in the antique business, so he works his job AND moves furniture and runs an antique shop, pretty much 7 days a week) and I refuse to trouble him with stupid stuff like going to the Doctor, the Dentist, or seeking some sort of Mental Professional's aide. He has his own problems and to be honest, I don't want to talk about it. He asks me from time to time if I'm okay or need anything like that and I immediately and abrupty say no. I refuse to trouble him with my problems.

I honestly think that it is a matter of time before I hurt myself or someone else in a sudden fit of just... self-hatred. I mean, that's what it all boils down to. I hate myself so much, because I wish I was better than I am. I have no friends and literally spend all of my time at work, or waiting for work to start. IU won't be a big change because I know I won't let anyone into my life because I am afraid of what they'll think of me. I am just slowly losing my mind, I feel. And if I can't get into IU... I mean, I can't go back to 90 minute drives... and if I don't go to college I'll just hate my life forever (even more than I do now) so I just wonder... at what point do I say screw it and just... stop restraining myself?

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-16, 12:18 AM
@Ocato.

Whew. That's certainly a rough ride you've laid out. I know you weren't explicitly asking for advice here, but I'd like to pick at a few things in what you've posted here.

First off, I'd like to compliment you on two things; Your courage in typing this up and posting it, and the readability of the rant. (We who read these greatly appreciate your efforts to make the text coherent and sensible. :smallsmile: )

Secondly, I suggest that you seek professional help. If things have ever gotten to the point where you've tried to pick the lock to the guncase, or started casting about for your razor blades, then your thoughts of suicide have gone far beyond the normal insincere musings that are common to just about everyone. Furthermore, if you're having serious concerns about your anger management and paranoia (which it sounds like you are), then it seems as if you ought to try and get something done about that.

As for bringing it (or your physical worries) up because you don't want to burden your parents...I'd urge you to look at it another way. It's always best to try and catch any kind of developing problem in its early stage. Even if it's trouble now, it'll be far worse trouble later when it develops into a full-blown ailment or disease. Maybe it'll be your own problem then, but I don't think it's going to make them feel any better than if you'd brought it up now.

I think to some degree you're letting self-pity and self-loathing cloud your judgment in this aspect. You've made some mistakes in the past, and maybe things are looking bleak for the immediate future, but let me ask you this; How old are you, and how old is your father (rhetorical questions)? If you think about the fact that your father's only now reaching retirement and then think about the gap between your ages, I think you'll find that there's a very large gap between them.

My point? You have a lot of time. Making mistakes is par for the course, even if they retard your career by a year or two. Where's your rush, after all? If you don't have any close friends in school whom you need to keep up with, you can take your time in your education, especially since you don't seem adverse to working for it. If you're not going towards medical school, you'd be surprised how little impact a single C grade will have. So I think you shouldn't give up hope on that particular aspect just yet.

Work issues. Not being good with crowds is one thing; having to suppress violence (and only barely succeeding!) when people are close is a problem. I'm not a psychologist, but I think it needs addressing, if you're going towards that teaching idea; Teaching takes an extraordinary amount of patience and confidence.

As far as lady/friend troubles, I can only offer you my sympathy. I know very well the trials of a long-distance relationship.




...I refuse to trouble him with my problems.

I honestly think that it is a matter of time before I hurt myself or someone else in a sudden fit of just... self-hatred. I mean, that's what it all boils down to. I hate myself so much, because I wish I was better than I am. I have no friends and literally spend all of my time at work, or waiting for work to start. IU won't be a big change because I know I won't let anyone into my life because I am afraid of what they'll think of me. I am just slowly losing my mind, I feel. And if I can't get into IU... I mean, I can't go back to 90 minute drives... and if I don't go to college I'll just hate my life forever (even more than I do now) so I just wonder... at what point do I say screw it and just... stop restraining myself?

See, I think this characterizes very well what I'm talking about; I think you're being blinded by self-pity and self-hatred to the point that you don't recognize the gross disservice you're doing not only to yourself, but also those who care about you. Consider; if your father had the choice, would he want you alive or dead? Would he want you sick, or healthy? Would he want you happy or tortured? By keeping your problems from him, you're not sparing him from them; you're just delaying the point at which things come to a head.
It's a bit like hiding the leak in the faucet until the pipe explodes and floods the house.
But it may be that you're too proud to call a plumber, as it were, but haven't mustered the effort to try and fix it yourself. And maybe you can't fix it yourself. That's why I strongly recommend that you talk to someone about it.

However, if you're bent on making a start, here's my opinion; you say that you hate yourself because you want to be better. It seems obvious, but what you need to do is work at making yourself better. Give up WoW for a while and take up some kind of craft or active hobby. Read history books on your leisure time, start learning a language, join a Gym, anything. Just make sure that all you have to show for the time you've spent at the end of a day isn't just a level 70 character, and I think you'll find a great increase in your self-esteem.

Finally, let me emphasize this; Please, get help. You're not being unselfish by letting yourself deteriorate. If anything, it's the most self-centered kind of behavior there is because of the pain you cause those who love you because you won't accept nor ask for help.
Please, get help. We don't want to lose any more playgrounders.

-TGS

Serpentine
2007-06-16, 02:15 AM
Oh man, that one (and what I've seen of previous ones...) makes me feel kinda bad for my dampner. I'll justify it by explaning that Skenardo I think said about all that needs to, except regarding the belief that everyone hates you? It's only little, I don't actually know you or anything, but I think you're one of the several posters whose writing I find I generally enjoy... That and it seems you have at least... 3 people, just in your story, who like you very much.

My little selfishness: My Canadian friend isn't talking to me at all, but he's still always on MSN. If he doesn't want to talk to me any more, I don't know why he doesn't just block me :smallfrown: To make matters worse, I found the last email he ever sent me: He'd received my parcel, and had one all ready to send back to me, he just needed my address. Which I gave him. >sigh< I just wish he'd tell me what I did wrong. I have his phone number, but if he genuinely doesn't like me any more then it'll just be awkward and seem even creepier.
I know it's not much, but it's just this constant sadness and self-doubt and paranoia that I'm doing whatever drove him away to someone else that hangs around, on top of uni stresses and D&D troubles and housemate issues and so on, and even when things are otherwise good.

zeratul
2007-06-16, 02:42 AM
Just call him. Do it cassually, and give him your adress then. That way it wont sound creepy.

Serpentine
2007-06-16, 02:47 AM
...except that he's in Canada, I'm in Australia, and that last email was sent to me a year ago :smallredface: That and I've already sent him an email saying, basically "talk to me or block me, dagnabbit!", except a lot more emotional. With absolutely no response....at least his friend Cam still talks to me?:smallconfused:

Glaivemaster
2007-06-16, 02:57 AM
I'm sure you've tried these ideas already, but I'm going to bring them up just to make sure:
1) Ask Cam if he(/she) knows what the problem is. If he doesn't;
2) Get Cam to talk to your friend, asking what the problem is or;
3) Get Cam to ask your friend to talk to you, to at least explain things

I know it's quiet upsetting when someone you considered a friend just stops talking to you, it happened to me a couple of times. Maybe it's not something you've done that stops him talking to you, maybe it's something he's done?

I'm not sure how important these parcels were to you two, but presumably they were some kind of gift? Perhaps, after receiving your parcel, he realised he didn't have anything that felt good enough to send to you and, embarrassed and feeling like a bad friend, stopped talking to you hoping you'd forget. Of course, after a year of not talking to you, it's become a habit, or the guilt has built up too much, but he won't block you because he still thinks of you as a friend.

Some parts of that paragraph were more specific or optimistic than others, but hopefully you get the idea. It doesn't have to be your fault.

Ocato: I think TGS has said everything that I'd say, so I'll just offer my support to his post

Serpentine
2007-06-16, 03:27 AM
I'm a bit wary of getting Cam too much involved because 1.a) I don't want to keep nattering on at him about Justin, 1.b) I'd like to try to build up a friendship with him apart from our mutual friend, especially seeing as he chose to keep talking to me even after I gave him the option of getting rid of me (we were only introduced cuz J & I were bored and he happened to be online at the time), 1.c) I don't want him to think I'm only still talking to him so that I can keep nattering on at him about J, and 2. I think he and another guy J introduced me to have lost contact with him a little after he moved. I may talk to him about it, like you suggested Glaive, at some point, but I should at least have a proper conversation with him about something else first. Anyway, he did say he'd punch J for me.
With the parcel, I think it had some chocolate, Tim Tams, and of course Vegemite, and not much else. Now that I think about it, I think there was a birthday present as well... but he'd already received it when he sent that email and said he'd already fixed one up for me, surely he wouldn't lie to me, and certainly not about something so trivial?
A bit of background, just cuz it feels better to write it even if noone reads it...
We met on some hotmail chat site when we started spouting Monty Python quotes at each other for some reason. This was about... in year 8 or 9, I think, so around 7 or 8 years ago.
After my first year at uni (so 3 Christmases ago) I was going to go visit him. I had my passport organised, the ticket paid for (about $2500 or something like that, $1200 inheritance, $800 of my own, and the rest from parents) and my bags packed for a holiday in the middle of a Canadian winter. A week before I was due to catch my flight, I contacted him just to check that everything was ready to go, and he said that "it'd be best if you didn't come" because of issues with his mother. Much panicking and many calls to the travel agent later, I decided to chicken out (it was my first trip overseas, I didn't have any alternative accommodation organised nor the money to pay for it, and I was pretty on edge) and pay the $800 late cancellation fee. He originally said he'd pay half what I paid for the ticket, and then felt so bad about making me cancel he said he'd pay all the fee. Then came several months of "I'll have enough money at the end of the month", but I didn't really care and I think the friendship was more or less okay. He said later that one of his reasons for pulling out was that he wouldn't have enough cash to keep me entertained. As though I expected him to cover everything!
It must've been about a year after that, an extended (couple of months-long) silence from Justin culminated in a pretty nasty (and embarassing) emotional outpouring (in which I absolved him of the debt he'd put on himself) on a particularly lonely, depressed, angry and frustrated weekend. He sheepishly apologised, citing various real life issues (moving I think was the main one), and we were back in business.
Then, a couple of months ago last year, I sent him a parcel, which, as it approximately coincided with his birthday, included a birthday present (I wish I could remember what it was... something dreadfully Australian, I'm sure). As I said, he said he had one for me all ready to send and then... nothing. Not a peep. Not so much as an "I never want to talk to you again" or "You're creepy, leave me alone". :smallfrown: As I mentioned, I sent off an email practically begging him to talk to me, tell me why he won't, and/or block me so it's all finished with once and for all. When that got no response, I said I'd try not to bother him any more, and bid him farewell with the hope that he'd choose to open contact again.
>sigh< I feel a little better now, at least...

ocato
2007-06-16, 10:34 AM
For the record, I've been out of Azeroth for a while now. But I do appreciate the advice.

I'm thinking of deleting the original post. The exposed feeling anxiety is slowly kicking in.

smellie_hippie
2007-06-16, 10:35 AM
Ocato: There are another couple of options that you can consider for getting help. Granted they do hinge on your acceptance to college at IU. (Bloomington is a great campus by the way... especially in the fall) You could seek some help through collegiate services. You briefly mentioned that your teeth hurt? You can speak witht he dental hygenists in training. You feel the need to see a counselor for your anger/depression? Talk to the students in the counseling department. Most school have a requirement for graduate students to work with some "walk ins" while being supervised.

These are just a couple of additional options so that you don't feel like everythign hinges on only making one choice. As for the advise from TGS... that would be the more direct and complete option. Talk to your folks about your health concerns. You are their son, and despite the fact that they stay busy with work, they care about you.

ocato
2007-06-16, 10:41 AM
Well, the teeth thing is an example of atrocious stupidity. I bit into something I didn't know was solid and for the last year or so I've had this sinking suspicion that my front teeth were going to fall out. They change their mind and go from feeling solid to loose to strong to weak as things change. So I don't know.

I know Bloomington is lovely. C almost decided to go there. That would've been nice. However, it's very busy, and as I mentioned. I get very anxious in crowds.

Serpentine
2007-06-16, 10:46 AM
Ugh, my teeth do that too. Probably not as bad, but still. Dreaming that one or more of them fell out every few nights for several months didn't help with that particular anxiety. I would suggest that even if it turns out to be just your imagination, it's well worth checking with a doctor just to reassure yourself.

ZombieRockStar
2007-06-16, 11:29 AM
*sighs, walks in*

This has been a really bad week for me. As a few of you know, what I've done is go out west to the touristy town of Banff, in the Rocky Mountains, to look for a summer job. I was told that a lot of places out here are looking for student workers, and they are, and that they provide accommodation for their staff, which a few of them do.

However, after a mind-numbing bus ride, Greyhound loses half my luggage and two days later has still not been able to track it down. This luggage included my tent and sleeping bag, which I needed for camping. So I stayed Thursday night at the Y, but last night they were full and I had to buy a whole new tent (which was not cheap, this being a tourist town) and go camping without a sleeping bag. It was cold and raining and not pleasant at all.

With the job search, fewer places were offering rooms for their staff than I'd hoped, and I can't take a job without a place to stay, so my options are suddenly a lot more limited than I thought. I also had a hell of a time setting up a voice mail box for them to call me, since I don't have a cell, and it's raining so I'm wet even as I type this. I'm lucky to have found internet access without paying exorbitantly, even, and I don't get unlimited time.

So basically, I'm frustrated because, while I still have quite a bit of money to live off of, I want to spend as little of it as possible because I'm supposed to be saving for a new guitar. So I've not even been eating much, trying to keep my expenses low. I feel really disoriented, jerked around by circumstance, and I feel stranded and helpless.

My thoughts are that if I can't find a job in the next couple of days, I might as well buy a bus ticket home and just find some job there. I'm also really depressed because, except for e-mail, I'm cut off from the person I miss the most and who usually helps me feel better about these things when I'm talking to her on AIM.

I'm usually good at living independently...why is it so hard this time? I guess, at the least, this'll be a learning experience for me...sorta. I don't even know.