Will Belkar get to keep his new toy?

[Tulisin]

Belkar's newly found ability to cast fireball seems like it might marginalize a lot of encounters, or at least amount to a win button. Do you think he'll be allowed to keep it? Personally I'm thinking:

1. The Eye of Fear and Flame somehow becomes useless and is relegated to a voice coming out of Belkar's bags for the rest of the comic.
-or-
2. Belkar pulls it out against a powerful opponent (Xykon?), and finds it to be utterly ineffective before the opponent destroys it.

[NeonRonin]

I'm thinking the Eye might run out of mojo.

However, once the battle is over, if that skull is still intact I sincerely doubt Hinjo will let Belkar keep it.

:hinjo: I'm sorry, but I can't allow you to keep an undead abomination as a weapon OR a pet. It may have helped turn the tide of battle, but it's still an unnatural creation, and I won't have that in my city.

:belkar: I never get to have anything nice...

[the_tick_rules]

permanetly, i doubt it.

[holywhippet]

I wonder if some high ranking cleric (possibly Durkon) will use the turn undead ability on some zombies/ghouls or even Xykon himself but affect the EoFaF as well since I think turn undead is area of effect centred on the performer.

[TheMysteriousX]

Interesting problem.

There are 2 ways of looking at it:
1) it is now a sentient magic item. Uber cool now, but 5 or 6 levels time, it'll be useless. It's damage won't change, the to hit won't change, the dc won't change. Assuming OoTS punch within their CR (I.e. not goblins) then it will be a little bit useless. Difficult to destroy.

2) it is a creature. Will take up the parties XP, and has hit dice, and ac, so relatively easy to kill. Oh, and will explode the next time :Durkon: turns undead.

So it's not as wonderful as it seems at first glance.

[Kreistor]

Hinjo won't let that thing continue long.

[Tulisin]

You're assuming:

1. Hinjo lives.
2. Azure City survives, to actually give him the backup to his authority.
3. He stays in power with ninjas on his back and his order of paladins dead.
4. The OotS stays in the area.

With the way things are going now, doesn't seem like Hinjo will have much of a say in anything.

[Professor Tanhauser]

I'm thinking the Eye might run out of mojo.

However, once the battle is over, if that skull is still intact I sincerely doubt Hinjo will let Belkar keep it.

:hinjo: I'm sorry, but I can't allow you to keep an undead abomination as a weapon OR a pet. It may have helped turn the tide of battle, but it's still an unnatural creation, and I won't have that in my city.

:belkar: I never get to have anything nice...

Suppose belkar just decides to leave AC after the battle? He doesn't have to be within a mile of roy now, and roy can't activate the MoJ so belkar can tell hinjo to go do himself and leave.

I wonder if belkar orders the eye to fireball someone in a city, would that activate the MoJ? After all, it's the eye doing the harm, belkar just gave the order.

But now that roy's dead belkar can just leave. He may not be able to stab anyone in a city until he gets the mark taken off, but he can leave as he no longer needs to be within a mile of roy.

[brian c]

Suppose belkar just decides to leave AC after the battle? He doesn't have to be within a mile of roy now, and roy can't activate the MoJ so belkar can tell hinjo to go do himself and leave.

I wonder if belkar orders the eye to fireball someone in a city, would that activate the MoJ? After all, it's the eye doing the harm, belkar just gave the order.

But now that roy's dead belkar can just leave. He may not be able to stab anyone in a city until he gets the mark taken off, but he can leave as he no longer needs to be within a mile of roy.

I'm pretty sure the fireball in the second panel of 455 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html) counts as being inside Azure City, so the answer to your question is no, the MoJ was not activated. However, it may still activate if Belkar gets too far away from Roy.

[vbushido]

Roy's dead condition does not nullify the conditions set by the Mark of Justice. Great, now I have the image of Belkar fleeing Azure City with the EoF&F in one hand and the pull cord to a small wagon with Roy's corpse in it in the other.

------
"Tell me I am NOT being pimp-slapped by a ten-year-old at Panzerblitz!" - Ralph, Dork Tower, playing against his son

[Professor Tanhauser]

Roy's dead condition does not nullify the conditions set by the Mark of Justice. Great, now I have the image of Belkar fleeing Azure City with the EoF&F in one hand and the pull cord to a small wagon with Roy's corpse in it in the other.


Roy is dead, therefore the thing on the ground is a corpse, not roy. Roy is the soul that's passed on. The MoJ called for belkar to remain within a mile of roy, now that he's dead, belkar can leave.

Rules lawyering 101

[Squark]

Magic Lesson numero uno: Magic takes things Litteraly!

[Ceres]

Personally I think it would be hilarious if after the battle, the skull just faded from view. And then, after another 200 strips or so, when everyone has forgotten about it, Belkar would use it to get the group out of some hopeless situation.

Kind of like Bender and the Head of Lucy Liu. Except the hopeless situation thingy...

[Corncracker]

I hope Belkar keeps it. Not only that, but I hope the two become good friends. The EoFaF will not just be a tool of destruction, but Mr. Bitterleafs closest friend in life.

[Tass]

Life and undeath

[Baalzebub]

I do not believe Durkon will allow that. Remember how much he hates undead? :smallsigh:

[Glome]

well at the level the OOTS is at, I don't think the skull is overpowering. It doesn't do anything that V can't do plenty of times per day, and the OOTS generally doesn't seem to have that great equipment anyway. I really don't see much that would seperate Belkar from the skull irregardless, I don't think Hinjo has much room to bargain after he already agreed to release Belkar from the MOJ. I think Belkar would prefer to stab things if given a choice anyway, it's just easier to kill low level mobs with his fireball skull though.

[Grendita]

And Belkar has got a low attention span for things not directly related to killing, so when there are no more hobgoblins left to fireball he'll just forget about it and leave it in some dustbin somewhere.

[Jaysyn]

Is the Eye of Fear & Flame even Undead in 3.5 edition? EnWorld has them down as:

EYE OF FEAR AND FLAME
Medium-Size Outsider
Hit Dice: 12d8+36 (90 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft
AC: 18 (+8 natural)
Attacks: Eye rays +13 ranged
Damage: Eye ray (see text)
Face/Reach: 5 ft by 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Eye rays
Special Qualities: Ethereal jaunt, detect law, greater command, reflect spells, telepathy, darkvision 60 ft
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +8, Will +11
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 11, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 16
Skills: Climb +13, Disguise +15, Hide +12, Intuit Direction +15, Jump +13, Listen +17, Move Silently +12, Search +14, Sense Motive +15, Spot +17
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Point Blank Shot (eye rays), Weapon Focus (eye rays)
Climate/Terrain: Any land and underground
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 9
Treasure: None (its eye gems are worth 1,500 gp each)
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 13-36 HD (Medium-size)

The eye of fear and flame is a hooded humanoid standing about 6 feet tall. The face is always invisible, with the interior of the hood being seen as an opaque black screen. The eye constant stalks the world looking for lawful and good individuals in which to command and force into service. The deeds and commands given by an eye of fear and flame are always evil in nature.

The gems lose their magical properties when they are removed or when the eye of fear and flame is killed.

Sages say a dark and evil god created the eye of fear and flame to slay good and just creatures. Scholars believe that only twenty of these creatures exist.

I guess Redcloak could have summoned it since he serves Dark Gods & all but removing it's head would probably kill it either way.

[factotum]

The Giant is clearly using the undead version because his EoFaF was chosen specifically to be a humanoid skeleton. I know this version exists, because somebody linked to a description of it once, but I honestly don't know which sourcebook it's in. I guess there was also a version that was listed as an outsider--nothing like a bit of consistency in the D&D sourcebooks, is there? :smallsmile:

[Duke of URL]

If I were Belkar's player, I would petition the DM that Belkar gets to keep it in lieu of an animal companion.

If I were the DM, I'd seriously think about granting the request because Belkar has been so damn funny.

On the serious side, though, I doubt Belkar will have much interest in his "toy" once he's able to deal lethal damage himself.

[Eriol]

I see the EoFaF kind of like a cowardly Murray (from The Curse of Monkey Island) that can shoot fireballs. Ever since that game I've had a soft spot for talking skulls, and this one, though very very different, fills some of that void. :smallbiggrin:

[Alex Kidd]

I believe Belkar will definitely keep it until the obligatory Hamlet parody. Personally I hope it's kept for a while.

[Tulisin]

Maybe the eye will be the outsider that Miko has to have friendly contact with to go evil.

[Kkreuzritter]

Considering the usefulness of the eye, and both rules of drama and the way the order's luck flows, i'd guess belkar will lose the eye right when they really, really need it

[holywhippet]

Interesting problem.

There are 2 ways of looking at it:
1) it is now a sentient magic item. Uber cool now, but 5 or 6 levels time, it'll be useless. It's damage won't change, the to hit won't change, the dc won't change. Assuming OoTS punch within their CR (I.e. not goblins) then it will be a little bit useless. Difficult to destroy.


It can cast an unlimited number of fireballs (after a short recharge for each) as though it were a level 15 magic user. In 5 or 6 levels, V will only just be casting at a higher level and certainly won't be throwing an unlimited number. There are plenty of creatures weak against fire that are still within their CR - frost giants, ice elementals. Even regular monsters still have to respect a fireball as a softening up measure.

[Kish]

Roy is dead, therefore the thing on the ground is a corpse, not roy. Roy is the soul that's passed on. The MoJ called for belkar to remain within a mile of roy, now that he's dead, belkar can leave.

Rules lawyering 101

Optimistic rules lawyering. Belkar is pretty stupid. Stupid enough to risk his health testing your extremely-Belkar-friendly interpretation? Probably.

[PMDM]

The laws of comedy state that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Therefore, Belkar will lose the skull. Eventually.

[NEO|Phyte]

I believe Belkar will definitely keep it until the obligatory Hamlet parody. Personally I hope it's kept for a while.
He's already made a Hamlet parody, just not in the actual comic.
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/3858/yikyikft0.gif
:edit: at least, I'm PRETTY sure it was Rich that did it.
:more edit: well, I found the thread where it came from (the feb 2005 thread), it WAS Rich that did it, the posts were apparently lost/baleeted/moved out of sight, but the image is still hosted at http://www.giantitp.com/Images/yikyik.gif

[Alex Kidd]

Yes but this is a talking skull, it demands one of it's own. Especially once Elan sees it

"Bardic senses tingling, must perform soliloquy with the necromantic abomination...."

[Whoracle]

[...]I wonder if belkar orders the eye to fireball someone in a city, would that activate the MoJ? After all, it's the eye doing the harm, belkar just gave the order.
[...]

Remember YikYiks Son Whatshecalled, back when Roys sister was kidnapped?
Belkar nailed a Hunter Sheet to a Tavern Door, thus he gave the Order.

So it seems we can be pretty sure that he CAN order other beings (i.e. EoF&F) to kill how he wants, even inside a City, without triggering the MoJ.

Besides, if Roy get's rezzed, wouldn't that reactivate the MoJ? So I think Belkar will try to hold on to the one Item/Being/Whatever that will enable him to kill at a whim quite desperately.