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Theodoxus
2007-05-26, 01:29 PM
I don't tend to do this, but the recent thread on making an archer got me thinking, especially with the Soulbow - which, while I've had Complete Psionic for quite some time, hadn't actually gotten around to reading...

So, anyway, here's what I came up with.

Race: Anthropomorphic Rat (from Savage Species) - +2 Dex, +4 Wis, -4 Str, -4 Cha, speed 15, LA+0 (pertinent parts)

Attributes (using 32 point buy) S:8, D:18, C:8, I:8, W:18, Ch:8
Modified to S:4, D:20, C:8, I:8, W:22, Ch:4

Classes: Rog 1 / Scout 2 / Soulknife 2 / Soulbow 1 / Scout 2 (4) / Rog 12 (13)

Note: I use the Fractional Base Bonuses from UA - they make the most sense when multiclassing.

Feats:
1st: Point Blank Shot
1st: Precise Shot (flawed)
1st: Vulnerable (FLAW)
3rd: Rapid Shot
4th: Weapon Focus: Mind Blade (free from Soulknife, works for Mind Arrow too)
4th: Wild Talent (free from Soulknife)
6th: Zen Archery
6th: Psionic Shot (Bonus Feat from Soulbow)
8th: Swift Ambusher (Bonus Feat from scout)
9th: Manyshot
12th: Greater manyshot
15th: Fell Shot
17th: Far Shot (10th level Rogue Special Ability: Feat)
18th: Greater Psionic Shot
20th: Improved Critical: Mind Blade (affects Mind Arrow too) 13th Level Rogue Special Ability: Feat)

Add Wisdom every 4th level and take the Quick trait from UA

At 20th, with out any additional attibute enhancing magic, you'll have:

BAB: +15/+10/+5
Ranged Attack Bonus: +24/+19/+14 (+25/+19/+15 within 30')
Damage: (within 30' using Greater manyshot) 3 arrows doing 13d6, crit: 19-20, x3.
You can also expend your psionic focus to increase one of those shots to 17d6. (unless I'm wrong and it affects all the shots in the round - the description says 'attacks' while the benefit only states 'attack'. Is there a ruling on that somewhere?)

The really nice thing, you gain the benefits of having a composite longbow, but never have to carry arrows or the bow itself (plus your mind blade isn't too shabby either, if you need to threaten)

You can also pick up an actual shortbow and be rather deadly with it as well, should you need specific material arrows (cold iron, silver, etc) or get a wicked cool bow...

But even if you don't, you can spend all your dough on items to increase your pitiful other stats instead of an uber expensive bow or two.

The other thing I like about this setup is you get to be a skill monkey (fairly well, the int hit hurts - but you could always roll your stats instead). Each level contains some useful bits and it should be a blast to play - imo.

Provided one of my DMs allows me to play the A-Rat, this could definitely be my next character.

Thoughts? Things I missed or should have taken instead?

Theo

InaVegt
2007-05-26, 01:36 PM
I saw a build a while back which was capable of shooting someone from (around) a mile away and dealing a couple of hundreds of damage in a single shot.

the_tick_rules
2007-05-26, 04:31 PM
gotta add a few levels of order of bow initate, can use your bow in melee without provoking AOO's.

Whiplord
2007-05-26, 06:03 PM
I would recommend taking a different flaw than vulnerable. Even with the high dex, it seems that with that low con you'd be in trouble if a hit connects with you.

Now, having not read the soulbow, I would suggest taking Noncombatant as your flaw, that puts a -2 on all melee attacks, but as an archer using ranged as a primary method, I think you'd be fine there.

My apologies if i made a crappy suggestion based on lack of knowledge.

Damionte
2007-06-12, 08:36 PM
You can also expend your psionic focus to increase one of those shots to 17d6. (unless I'm wrong and it affects all the shots in the round - the description says 'attacks' while the benefit only states 'attack'. Is there a ruling on that somewhere?)

Thoughts? Things I missed or should have taken instead?

Theo

I like it. It's a decent enough build. Especially if you can catch foes flat footed in the 1st round, or can make multiple hide attemps.

As for the Psionic Focus, I'm really not sure. It's not clear in the fweat or any of the other melee ones which way it works or is meant to work.

It "seems" to work as a one shot type of thing, but it doesn't actually say that it does. At the same time it seems to charge up all of your attacks for the round, but it doesn't axctually say that either.

I could honestly argue for it to go either way. I woul ddefer to your DM and to the power level of the game you're in. If it's a low power game or your group is full of Psionic-Phobe bigots like mine is. :) then go with 1 charge per round the way stunning fist works.

If it's a higher power game go with all of your attacks per round.

I don't recall seeing an errata for this but it's been a while since I looked.

MeklorIlavator
2007-06-12, 08:42 PM
Seems good, though if you are going to be within 30 feet(for sneak attack), and focusing on 1 attack per round, Order of the Bow initiate is exactly what you need (gives percison damage, useful bow ablities if you are going to be close up). Of course, I have it on good athourity that an Artificer could do it better(and a claric might come close).

Skjaldbakka
2007-06-12, 08:45 PM
but deflect arrows completely shuts down a OotBI. 100% pwned.

Damionte
2007-06-12, 08:53 PM
Yeah but only ones who really get that are monks. and Monks are such a minor threat that you really don't have to worry about them. Keep shooting everyone else and let someone else in the party worry about the monk.

Also his one attack per round is a greater manyshot. Which the Order of the Bow wouldn't get to add anything to.

so OOTB is still owned.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-06-12, 11:12 PM
Nein. Me like this:

Marksman 20 (Untapped Potential 3rd party 3.5 book, OGL baby!)
Psionic Ranged combat artist. Has PPT progression on the PsyWarrior table.
Small listing of powers, but designed to augment ranged attacks
Only Psionic base class that I have found which has a full BAB; also has good reflex and will save
HD: d6

Skills: +4INT mode/ level, x4 at level 1.
Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Psionics), Listen, Perform, Sense Motive, Use Psionic Device, Use Rope

Proficient with simple weapons, light and martial ranged weapons, light armor, and bucklers.

The class also has a Signature Style; either Crossbow, Longbow, or Thrown weapons (does not work well with [ToB] Bloodstorm Thrower, I tried). You get several funny as heck attacks and abilities with the class styles.

You also get a Deflect Arrows-type ability, and "cover fire", which is hilarious; you can impede or otherwise distract movement if a foe is approaching a party member. Also, when you become Psionically focused, you gain your WIS mod to attack rolls for a number of rounds = to your WIS modifier. Splashing a level of Monk would be interesting for this character; the only loss would be -1 from the BAB.

Race: Dust Para-Genasi
Stats, post racial mods
Strength 14
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 17
Dexterity 20
Constitution 14
Charisma 5

Feats
1st level:
Rapid Shot (Level) : 2 attacks, all attacks made have -2 penalty
Ranged Threat (Flaw [Vulnerable]) : Threaten 20' area with bow
Combat Reflexes (Flaw [Non-combatant]) : make AoO's up to your Dex mod
Point Blank Shot (Class bonus feat, already determined): +1 atk/+1dmg to foe within 30'

3rd:
Precise Shot: do not take -4 penalty to shots into melee

5th (class feat)
Psionic Meditation (focus as a move action)

6th:
Psionic Shot (expend psi focus to gain +2d6 on ranged attack) This is optional, but it kinda goes with:

8th (Class feat)
Woodland Archer

9th
Shot on the Run

12th:
True Beleiver (RP reason, he is a worshipper of Ehlonna, Odd, I know. Optimization reason, it is required for the Raptor Arrows)

14th (class bonus):
Manyshot

15th:
Improved Rapid Shot

18th
Greater Psionic Shot

I have not decided on the Epic feat yet; but the plans are that he gets there at some point.

Mr. Moogle
2007-06-12, 11:18 PM
Yeah but only ones who really get that are monks. and Monks are such a minor threat that you really don't have to worry about them. Keep shooting everyone else and let someone else in the party worry about the monk.
/outrage

BLASPHEMY

Piccamo
2007-06-12, 11:22 PM
(Untapped Potential 3rd party 3.5 book, OGL baby!)

There's a reason people don't generally use 3rd party material in DnD builds. It is not necessarily of the same framework as the rest of DnD and does not pretend to be balanced with it.


/outrage

BLASPHEMY

Yeah, like its not true :smallamused:

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-06-12, 11:23 PM
/outrage

BLASPHEMY

I 2nd the /Outrage and follow it up with a /please don't start another Monks suck/Monks Rule argument.

Monks rule. End of story. :smallbiggrin:

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-06-12, 11:28 PM
There's a reason people don't generally use 3rd party material in DnD builds. It is not necessarily of the same framework as the rest of DnD and does not pretend to be balanced with it.



Yeah, like its not true :smallamused:


Actually, it is quite well balanced. :smallsmile: It is a very well designed class. It could be optimized to be a ranged punpun, but that is not the point; we do not "win" at DnD, right? I would not be so happy with the class if it was not balanced. They are a melee combatant's best friend; when the caster / manifester does not have the proper ranged combat spells / powers.

I do admit that the feats I took are quite designed to optimize what he does, but if he gets stuck in another situation, which there always will be one if the DM is all about the storytelling, than he would have to find another way out of it. :smallwink:

The Marks(people) suck at martial face to face combat, and I took the appropriate flaw for that. I did not have to, but I did anyway. His HP are also very weak, d6 and the race gives me a -2 to the stat. :smallamused:

I've always said that most of the time it is not the design of the class that makes it "overpowered" or not balanced, it is the build. :smallsmile:

Damionte
2007-06-13, 12:16 AM
Actually, it is quite well balanced. It is a very well designed class. It could be optimized to be a ranged punpun, but that is not the point; we do not "win" at DnD, right? I would not be so happy with the class if it was not balanced. They are a melee combatant's best friend; when the caster / manifester does not have the proper ranged combat spells / powers.

unfortunately most of us probably can't use it, so it's not much good for the thread. I'm sure it's a nice class though.

I have an archer build sitting around here someplace I'll see if I can find it.

brian c
2007-06-13, 12:42 AM
but deflect arrows completely shuts down a OotBI. 100% pwned.

Except Deflect Arrows is only 1/round, and OotBI can shoot more than one arrow per round, right?

Quietus
2007-06-13, 01:29 AM
Except Deflect Arrows is only 1/round, and OotBI can shoot more than one arrow per round, right?

They're capable of doing so, but they only get their precision damage if they use a standard action to do it. Which means one attack per round.

Callix
2007-06-13, 04:00 AM
They're capable of doing so, but they only get their precision damage if they use a standard action to do it. Which means one attack per round.
Not with a Greater Manyshot build. Greater Manyshot allows a standard action to do up to 4 shots with precision damage. OotBI does precision damage. Still, if any of these builds get into melee, they're screwed anyway. Why bother burning levels of sneak attack dice for the chance to die marginally slower when absolutely screwed. Also, please note my PrC for solving 30ft range issues (sorry about stepping on 3rd party toes with names)

ZeroNumerous
2007-06-13, 07:32 AM
Actually, Soulbows can fire their mind arrow in melee without worrying about a thing.

And the best archer ever? Warmage.