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de-trick
2007-05-27, 04:43 PM
In most of the forums all the theards turn into a debate about a class being underpowered or overpowered and I'm for one sick of it. I believe all classes are equal in most ways or very easy to change to get what you want. For starters the fighter know is always said to be underpowered and its not compared to a wizard its a case of the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. the wizard get all these sweet spells but the fighter can survive in the front lines of battle.
If your a fighter if you want spells there is still a couple of options for you
1)Get a magic item that allows you a spell
2)multi class into a arcane/divine spellcasting class
3)prestige into a class that can cast spellcasting
very easy
also if your a fighter your job is not to cast spells (thats the spellcaster job) your job is to kill the monsters and be in the front line

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-27, 04:48 PM
In most of the forums all the theards turn into a debate about a class being underpowered or overpowered and I'm for one sick of it. I believe all classes are equal in most ways or very easy to change to get what you want. For starters the fighter know is always said to be underpowered and its not compared to a wizard its a case of the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. the wizard get all these sweet spells but the fighter can survive in the front lines of battle.
If your a fighter if you want spells there is still a couple of options for you
1)Get a magic item that allows you a spell
2)multi class into a arcane/divine spellcasting class
3)prestige into a class that can cast spellcasting
very easy
also if your a fighter your job is not to cast spells (thats the spellcaster job) your job is to kill the monsters and be in the front line

Scrubbed..

Jimp
2007-05-27, 04:54 PM
Shot down by sarcasm. Harsh.

Core Rebuttal to wizards being unable to survive at the front lines: Polymorph.
That is if you just want the wizard to survive. The wizard could also disable everyone at the front lines with one of his many area of effect spells.

Belteshazzar
2007-05-27, 05:06 PM
In DnD combat (in my experience anyway) there is no 'Frontline', this ain't trench warfare. If you are in a combat encounter against anything with a basic understanding of strategy it will go for the real killers in combat the 'magic users'. In a perfect world the combat happens on a 2d plain and no one can come up behind you (no not even Goombas) but but the closest DnD comes to this is combat in a 5 by ? hallway in some dungeon. But in the real world unless the caster to fighter ratio in the party is at least 8 to 1 in a party the caster is not hiding behind some meatshield wall.

It is not simply a question of playing different roles (meatsheild vs heavy artillery) but the fact that except for the knight there is no mechanical way for a fighter type to attract a high level monsters attention (and play his role). I don't want to be forced to incorporate 'agro' mechanics like some MMORPG to be an effective fighter. However without one a fighter is unable to draw attacks from a monster because the monster knows he can finish off the fighter later as long as he kills the cleric and wizard because straight damage has become unimportant by this point.

de-trick
2007-05-27, 05:24 PM
In DnD combat (in my experience anyway) there is no 'Frontline', this ain't trench warfare. If you are in a combat encounter against anything with a basic understanding of strategy it will go for the real killers in combat the 'magic users'. In a perfect world the combat happens on a 2d plain and no one can come up behind you (no not even Goombas) but but the closest DnD comes to this is combat in a 5 by ? hallway in some dungeon. But in the real world unless the caster to fighter ratio in the party is at least 8 to 1 in a party the caster is not hiding behind some meatshield wall.

but party order usually goes
rouge fighter other melee people = front line
spellcasters divine and arcane together in back = last line

Gralamin
2007-05-27, 05:27 PM
but party order usually goes rouge fighter other melee people and spellcasters divine and arcane together

Thats a stupid order. What if something comes from behind?
In a four person group, I generally have it as: Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Cleric/Druid.
If we do not have a strong divine character, It will be Fighter, Wizard, Divine, Rogue.

de-trick
2007-05-27, 05:39 PM
that works too as long as the arcane caster has some kind of protection

the_tick_rules
2007-05-27, 11:58 PM
that's what's makes a melee/caster team better than casters alone. the melee keep the baddies away so the wizards have a screen.

Fourth Tempter
2007-05-28, 12:29 AM
At higher levels, Tick, that's not an issue. Besides, a meleeing caster (druid, cleric, or "gish") makes for a better meleer than a meleer.

Fizban
2007-05-28, 12:32 AM
I feel I should point out the irony that we have now progressed through the cycle from threads on "poweredness" to threads complaining about threads on "poweredness". Soon we shall progress to the phase of threads where everyone agrees that it doesn't matter as long as everyone has fun.

I think this is the second cycle I've been through since joining the boards. I see no end to them in the future.

(My point, in case anyone missed it, is that there will always be poweredness threads, and threads complaining about poweredness threads, and posts complaining about threads complaining about poweredness threads, and so on. It is a fact of gaming forums and indeed if we could find a way to harness the energy produced by it, we could, dare I say it....RULE THE WORLD!!!1)

TheOOB
2007-05-28, 12:44 AM
A class that has an every growing laundry list of abilities that can change every day will almost always be better then a class that is limited to what few abilities they gain each level(if any).

Quellian-dyrae
2007-05-28, 01:41 AM
A class that has an every growing laundry list of abilities that can change every day will almost always be better then a class that is limited to what few abilities they gain each level(if any).

Not to mention, a class that can kill monsters, bypass obstacles, learn what to do next, augment its allies' abilities to kill monsters, defend its allies, summon things to kill monsters for it, rework the terrain to its benefit, scout, prevent its team from being snuck up on, and compel the monsters to kill each other will always be better than a class that can just kill monsters.