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Melas
2007-05-27, 09:30 PM
I’ve only played D&D a few times, but I want to try my hand at DMing once the school year starts up again. I’m thinking of doing a low magic Robin Hood campaign based loosely on the recent BBC series where the title of Robin Hood is passed on (ala the Dread Pirate Roberts). The campaign will be set in a world that is geologically identical to ours, and has far fewer races and varieties of monsters than a standard D&D campaign (most of the evil NPC’s will be human). My players are mostly experienced D&Ders, but there is a large group of them (about 8).

So my questions:
1. What modules are conducive to this type of campaign?
(I’m not going to use all modules, but some of the early adventures will be.)

2. What advice can you give me about running this type of campaign?

3. I’m making a new character class for the campaign, called the Yeoman based largely on the Ranger, which I will post below. I took away the rangers spells, animal companion, and Wild empathy, as well as limiting it to the ranged combat style option, but gave it some kick a$$ abilities with the bow and an enhanced survival skill. Is this class terribly unbalanced?

Melas
2007-05-27, 09:33 PM
Here's the Yeoman (all four pages of it):
Yeoman


Hit dice: d8

Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) Int, Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex)
Skill points: 6 + Int modifier.

BAB and saves as ranger

1st Vitals shot 1d6, Track, Self Sufficient
2nd Skilled Bow
3rd Endurance
4th Eagle Eye, one with the bow +1
5th Vitals shot 2d6
6th Bow Adept
7th Woodland Stride
8th Swift Tracker, One with the bow +2
9th Evasion
10th Vitals shot 3d6
11th Bow Mastery

12th True Shot
13th Camouflage
14th One with the bow +3
15th Vitals Shot 4d6
16th Survivalist
17th Hide in plain sight
18th Sure Shot
19th One with the bow +4
20th Vitals Shot 5d6


The Yeoman is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor

Level 1
Self sufficient and Track feats

Level 1 and improvement every 5 levels
Vitals shot (Ex): The Yeoman is especially proficient at taking his time and picking his shots to deal massive amounts of damage. The Yeoman may make a full round attack at his highest base attack bonus to deal extra damage by striking vital areas of an opponent in much the same way a rouge does with a sneak attack. Such an attack must be made with a bow and must be made against a target within 1 range increment of the weapon. See the chart below for how much extra damage.
Should the Yeoman score a critical hit with a Vitals shot the extra damage is not multiplied.
This attack may be used in combination with the rapid or manyshot feats, but the bonus only applies to the first attack.
A Yeoman can use this ability only against living creatures with discernible anatomies—undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to a Vitals Shot. The Yeoman must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and his attack must be able to reach such a spot. A Yeoman cannot use this ability against a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach. These benefits apply only when the Yeoman wears light or no armor. The character loses all benefits of this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Level 2
Skilled Bow (Ex): The Yeoman is treated as having the Rapid Shot feat when using a bow, even if the character does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. These benefits apply only when the Yeoman wears light or no armor. The character loses all benefits of this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Level 3
A Yeoman gains the Endurance bonus feat.

Level 4
Eagle eye: +3 enhancement bonus to spot

Levels 4, 8, 14, 19
One with the bow (Ex): A Yeoman knows their bow like they know their own arm, and the familiarity shows in their accuracy. If a Yeoman is “Familiar” (a quality described below) with a bow they gain a bonus to his attack roll of +1 on all attacks made with that bow. This Bonus increases to +2 at 8th level, +3 at 14th level, and +4 at 19th level. This bonus does not grant the Yeoman extra attacks.

In order for a bow to be Familiar to a Yeoman, the character must have crafted the bow themselves. Any failure in the bow (such as from poor maintenance) or change in the bows performance (such as when an enhancement bonus is added) causes the Yeoman to lose this familiarity, although in the latter case it may be regained. If the bow is of masterwork quality or better the bow may be enhanced by the Yeoman another character through magical means, but the Yeoman must be present when such enhancement is given to be able to regain familiarity. Also after the enhancement the Yeoman must practice with the bow for 1 hour per thousand gold pieces of the cost to create the enchantment (minimum 1 hour), upon completion of which the character is once again “familiar” with the bow.

Temporary enhancements, such as the cleric spell Magic Weapon temporarily disrupt the Yeoman’s familiarity with the weapon, just like a permanent enhancement (calculate the cost of the enhancement as though it were permanent).

Level 6
Bow Adept (Ex): The Yeoman is treated as having the Manyshot feat, even if the character does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. These benefits apply only when the Yeoman wears light or no armor. The character loses all benefits this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Level 7
Woodland Stride (Ex): A Yeoman may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect the character.

Level 8
Swift Tracker (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a Yeoman can move at normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. A Yeoman takes only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.

Level 11
Bow Master (Ex): The Yeoman is treated as having the Improved Precise Shot feat, even if the character does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat. These benefits apply only when the Yeoman wears light or no armor. The character loses all benefits this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor.

Level 12
True shot (Ex): This ability allows a Yeoman, through extraordinary skill, to make a single full round attack double the range increment of a bow. This ability may not be used in conjunction with any other full round attack, such as a rapid/manyshot or a Vitals shot.

Level 13
Camouflage (Ex): A Yeoman of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Level 16
Survivalist (Ex): the Yeoman becomes so certain in the use of Survival that the character can use it reliably even under adverse conditions. When making a skill check with Survival, the ranger may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent the character from doing so.

Level 17
Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in any sort of natural terrain, a Yeoman of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Level 18
Sure shot (Ex): Once per day and one additional time per day per wisdom modifier, a Yeoman may combine his True Shot and Vitals Shot abilities for incredible effect. This allows him to use a bow to make a vitals shot attack within any range up to double the weapon’s range increment at no penalty, and also use a Rapid or Manyshot attack on the same turn. Such an attack takes a full round, and the extra damage only applies to a single target and only once per Sure Shot.

Bassetking
2007-05-27, 09:42 PM
1) Well, Melas... There's this... Keep. And, It's on the Borderlands...:smallbiggrin:

2)An eight-man campaign? Phew. Better you than me. Do know you'll have to over-adjust your CR on encounters. Start at 1.5 Party ECL and scale up from there. Groups of monsters will be your friends, don't look towards a single BBEG; your players will strip him like a cow in a river of XP-addled piranah.

Script your events on a timer. If they're picking off a cart, give them a, say, ten round window in which the cart will be in the area in which they can rob it. If they manage to stop the cart, they put a, say, three round delay on the eventual ceasation of the event.

The timer will serve two purposes.

1a) Keeps down combat time during your session. With eight players, you'll be looking at a potential of >9 initiatives per combat, in addition to >9 actions per round, with a possible >9 AoO. Anything that keeps a capstone on the total overall time spent will keep your session from devolving into four-hour dice-rolling sessions.

2a) Makes certain that, while there are eight players, the actions of each, within the compressed scope of the encounter, will still have value and bearing on the outcome.

3) BaB progression? Saves? Bonus feats? Skill points? Until you post the built class, I'm afraid I'll be unable to assist on that class concept.

EDIT: Or you can post it while I'm writing this :smallwink:

3) Suprisingly, startlingly balanced from a first-read, The only question I might raise is "Why a d8 Hit die?" and even that's a minimal question. Well built, with reasoned negatives to acompany the benefits. Nicely Done.

Melas
2007-05-27, 10:08 PM
1) Well, Melas... There's this... Keep. And, It's on the Borderlands...:smallbiggrin:

2)An eight-man campaign? Phew. Better you than me. Do know you'll have to over-adjust your CR on encounters. Start at 1.5 Party ECL and scale up from there. Groups of monsters will be your friends, don't look towards a single BBEG; your players will strip him like a cow in a river of XP-addled piranah.

Script your events on a timer. If they're picking off a cart, give them a, say, ten round window in which the cart will be in the area in which they can rob it. If they manage to stop the cart, they put a, say, three round delay on the eventual ceasation of the event.

The timer will serve two purposes.

1a) Keeps down combat time during your session. With eight players, you'll be looking at a potential of >9 initiatives per combat, in addition to >9 actions per round, with a possible >9 AoO. Anything that keeps a capstone on the total overall time spent will keep your session from devolving into four-hour dice-rolling sessions.

2a) Makes certain that, while there are eight players, the actions of each, within the compressed scope of the encounter, will still have value and bearing on the outcome.

3) BaB progression? Saves? Bonus feats? Skill points? Until you post the built class, I'm afraid I'll be unable to assist on that class concept.

EDIT: Or you can post it while I'm writing this :smallwink:

3) Suprisingly, startlingly balanced from a first-read, The only question I might raise is "Why a d8 Hit die?" and even that's a minimal question. Well built, with reasoned negatives to acompany the benefits. Nicely Done.

1) Is there a verson of Keep on the Borderlands for 3.5e rules? Any others?
(I should also specify that I am going to be using 3.5e rules, and so would apreciate campaigns from that edition)

2) I exagerate, but only a little. The eight people I'm thinking of can't make it to games every week, and sometimes when they can make it they only show up for the latter half of a game. So it will be more like 6 people most of the time (unless I allow more to join our little group). I curently game in a group of about ten for a d&d campaign, and a group of about 12 in a hero system campaign. We often either get large amounts of character death in our battles, or completly destroy the enemy.

3) I'm iffy on the HD too, but I was thinking of it as kind of a Rouge/Ranger Build, niether of which have lots of HP.

Hazkali
2007-05-28, 03:45 AM
1) Is there a verson of Keep on the Borderlands for 3.5e rules? Any others?
(I should also specify that I am going to be using 3.5e rules, and so would apreciate campaigns from that edition)


I don't think Bassetking was actually reffering to a campaign called "Keep on the Borderlands"!!!! :smalltongue: I think he was referring to how you should make your own world!

You don't need an established campaign module to run a DnD campaign- design your own world, with the prerequisite features. For a Robin Hood style campaign, you'll need some or all of the following:


Plucky band of anarchists: The PCs, I presume.
The Nasty Despot, with minions
The Rightful King, away for some reason
A town (or two or three) of oppressed peasants
The Despot's Castle
A Wilderness or Borderlands where the PCs can hide
The Princess, who is the love interest for one (or more) of the PCs


Once you recreate these, design some nefarious plots for you Nasty Despot. If your players haven't seen many of the TV programmes, "borrow" ideas from there. Alternatively see if you can catch any of the old, old Robin Hood series on ITV3, or read some RH themed books.

Dervag
2007-05-28, 05:03 AM
How experienced are the DMs managing those large gaming groups you're in? If they've been DMing for years, you might want to try to prune the size of your group to a more manageable level (though if two or three of your players don't come to each session, then you should be OK). Keeping track of eight people is likely to be too much for you.

Ask your current DM for advice on managing the details of combat. One of the biggest shifts you'll experience is that of going from dealing with one character to dealing with many. Even though the players will handle decision-making for their characters and even though most of your NPCs (like the monsters in combat and the oppressed peasants) will be one-dimensional, it's a big jump to make. Any tricks you can pick up or invent to reduce the size of the jump will help you.

Try to have an organized approach to record-keeping that allows you to keep track of which orc (or highwayman, or sheriff's deputy) each of your characters is fighting. Take lots of notes, both before and during the session, so that you never forget what happened and what is happening. It can be very embarassing for everyone when the DM can't remember who's fighting who or what happened last session.

Melas
2007-05-28, 11:09 AM
I don't think Bassetking was actually reffering to a campaign called "Keep on the Borderlands"!!!! :smalltongue: I think he was referring to how you should make your own world!

You don't need an established campaign module to run a DnD campaign- design your own world, with the prerequisite features.

I know and I'm planning on it, but I want to run the first one or two adventures largely out of moduals so that I can get the hang of DMing. Any modual I used would be retooled. I'm also planning on the first couple of adventures not dircetly involving RH, but only setting the stage for his appearance (once the PC's get famous enough).

Oh and here how I plan on fullfilling said list:

Plucky band of anarchists: Robin Hood and gang form the BBC(NPC's), which the PC's join.
The Nasty Despot, with minions: Actually several layers of nasty despots: 2 Sheriffs, a High Sheriff, Guy of Gisbon, Bishop of Nottingham, and Prince John
The Rightful King, away for some reason: Crusades
A town (or two or three) of oppressed peasants: Check (locksy, Bonchurch, + others)
The Despot's Castle:Check
A Wilderness or Borderlands where the PCs can hide: Check
The Princess, who is the love interest for one (or more) of the PCs: Uncheck, I'll have to think about this since maid marion is taken.


Oh, and thanks for the advice Dervag.

Starsinger
2007-05-28, 11:16 AM
So the players don't get to be Robin Hood? They just get to be Merry Men? That's sad, at least to me, but that's because one of the guys who DMs for me ran a Star Wars game which boiled down to, "You're following Han Solo and Luke Skywalker around, but you never actually interact with them."

And how low magic are we talking? Spell-less Bards? The only magic item being the one or so magic weapons the PCs find? If it's "No magic" you may wish to consider looking into Iron Heroes.

Person_Man
2007-05-28, 11:49 AM
How to be a DM, in 7 easy steps:

1) Have your players make characters.

2) Stat out your main characters, NPCs and monsters.

3) Figure out each character's and NPC's motivation: What they intend to do, and how they intend to do it (a basic plot).

4) Buy a supplement with a city, maps, and/or some sample encounters in it. The Forgotten Realms supplements are great for this. I'm also a huge fan of Heroes of Battle and Stormwrack. The Traps and Trickery supplements are good for Skill challenges.

5) Introduce your players to one of the main characters, getting them involved with the plot, and allowing them to make choices about how things are going to go as soon as possible.

6) Put them through the encounters, changing the fluff to suit their plot choices.

7) Have a final encounter with the Big Bad Evil Guy (BBEG).

I find that this method works much better then modules, because my players have a habit of ignoring any pre-written plot lines, and doing there own things. The point of D&D is for them to have developing their characters, not for me to force them through my story, and so I just go with the flow and change things, coming up with new challenges to suit the situation. But if you're a totally new DM, a module isn't such a bad idea for a first time.

Melas
2007-05-28, 03:24 PM
So the players don't get to be Robin Hood? They just get to be Merry Men?

And how low magic are we talking?


Not at first. Like I said, Robin Hood is not so much a person as it is a title (passed on ala Dread Pirate Roberts).
I'm thinking low magic as in VERY few arcane Spellcasters that arn't PC's (they tend to get burned at the stake), and very few magic items. I'm trying to make vow of poverty (thinking of turing it into a vow of charity and makeing it less powerful) more attractive, and I'm also thinking of offering the defense bonus in Unearthed Arcana as a feat. (I'm trying to predispose my players into giving gold to the poor.)

Ceres
2007-05-28, 04:35 PM
Well what other can I say than "welcome to the club" :)

As you have been playing in other campaigns a while you won't have to face the problem of finding out everything yourself (like I had to :P), and I'm sure you know quite a few tricks already from watching your DMs with the impressive amount of players. If you haven't already, I would ask these for any help they could give you, as they know you and the other players personally, a benefit we on the forums don't have.

As a personal tip, one of the things that has helped me a lot is a bunch of pre-written stuff for the generic encounters you don't have the time to think about. Make a list of names for random NPCs, and a list of small encounters to add flavour to nondescript areas. Also, always keep a generic dungeon and a couple of rough drafts for adventures when the players decide to not follow the main storyline.

Also, get a good overview of the campaign setting, including what is happening in other countries and towns, informing the players through rumours. This will make the campaign seem alive. Also, letting actions players do in one adventure affect players in later adventures is a good way to add continuity, instead of making the campaign feel like a series of separate adventures.

Good luck DMing, and have fun :)

Matthew
2007-06-06, 11:14 AM
This sounds like an interesting campaign (even if I did hate the recent BBC Robin Hood incarnation). There are a bunch of maps available for download on the Wizards Website. You should consider posting up your Base Class in the Home Brew Forum. How are things developing with the campaign?

By the by, Keep on the Borderlands is a classic Adventure Module, I think that's what BassetKing was referring to. Whilst I don't think it has been updated for 3.x, I think Kenzerco did a D20 parody version (could have been Hack Master, though, now I think about it).

TheAlmightyOne
2007-06-06, 01:03 PM
I'm a DM in one group I do. I often find it best not to base my campaigns on TV series, films or books that I know my players know about. It makes the whle campaign much more predictable so my method is make stuff up as we go along and if they start complaining throw a pile of gold in th corner. With the guys I play with the wizard would probably run in first and get killed by the suprise monsters I put in there. Also if you want comedic effect continuosly change the house rules to annoy one guy and benefit everyone else. I can get away with it cos theres 8 other people in my campaign and only 2 of them know the rules.

Melas
2007-06-07, 04:20 PM
This sounds like an interesting campaign (even if I did hate the recent BBC Robin Hood incarnation). There are a bunch of maps available for download on the Wizards Website. You should consider posting up your Base Class in the Home Brew Forum. How are things developing with the campaign?
1. I liked most of the serries, but parts of it did grate on me too. My campaign will be avoiding those parts.

2. I know about the map-a-week maps if thats what you're refering to. The only problem is that the are so many of them that seperating the wheat from the chafe is dificult.

3. Will do.

4. I won't be starting it for another month or so, I still need to get all the BBEGs, Robin, and the Merry Men stated out, a panthion set up (I'm not using the standard gods, I want to drive up interest in playing clerics since none of the group likes to play healers), and some more of the early plots better solidified.