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JNAProductions
2015-11-10, 04:37 PM
Welcome, 'brewers, one and all to the very first 5E Base Class contest!

The rules are simple-you must create a base class from level 1-20 and include at least two subclasses. After approximately 20 days, voting will start on December 1st. The winner will receive just about the only thing I can offer-a brand new subclass designed by me personally, and the adoration of the internet. (Adoration of the internet not guaranteed.)

So start 'brewing and have fun!

Shaman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458327-Shaman-Base-Class-for-5th-Edition) |

Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458541-Spellsword(WIP))

Summoner (http://blarmb.com/files/Summoner1stDraft.pdf) |

Arcane Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?456801-Arcane-Blade-Original-Class-%28WIP%29&p=20047799#post20047799)

Vampire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?460960-New-5e-Class-Vampire) |

Strategist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?461189-The-Strategist&p=20097729#post20097729) ||||

Professional (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?463216-The-Professional-A-mundane-support-class-for-5e&p=20113659#post20113659) |||

Runecaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?462931-Runecaster-PEACH)

Emissary (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?465610-5e-The-Emissary-P-E-A-C-H&p=20131788#post20131788)

Devoted Operator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?464945-Devoted-Operator-class-W-I-P) |

Hexblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?467003-Hexblade-Class-Battle-Misfortune-and-Shadow-Archetypes&p=20140099#post20140099)

Xallace
2015-11-10, 05:17 PM
Is there a theme, or just anything we want to do?

JNAProductions
2015-11-10, 05:17 PM
For the first one? Go hog wild, do anything!

djreynolds
2015-11-11, 06:53 AM
Are these classes coming off more like archetypes, or psychic stuff?

Its really tough to come up with something original, that doesn't come off a multiclass

applepi2054
2015-11-11, 10:35 AM
I'm in, I'll make something once I get some inspiration for a class.

Turtlemancer
2015-11-11, 01:47 PM
I will just call dibs on shaman right here.

MrStabby
2015-11-11, 04:33 PM
So we just post it here?

What is expected? Is it just mechanics or do you want fluff and descriptions added as well?

Are we allowed to remake classes and prestige classes from previous editions that haven't been done yet?

JNAProductions
2015-11-11, 04:34 PM
So we just post it here?

Yes

What is expected? Is it just mechanics or do you want fluff and descriptions added as well?

Mechanics are the bare minimum. Fluff will help in the voting, but isn't needed.

Are we allowed to remake classes and prestige classes from previous editions that haven't been done yet?


Yes, you are.

MrStabby
2015-11-11, 04:43 PM
Hmm. I am thinking Pale Master, Fire Knight of Kossuth, Arcane Botanist or maybe an Eldritch Hunter.

DersitePhantom
2015-11-11, 05:11 PM
Does the class we submit have to have been made specifically for this contest, or can it be something we've made previously?

Is each person limited to only a single entry, or can we submit multiple different classes?

Whatever the answers to these questions, I'm in. I've been thinking about making a spellcaster class that spontaneously creates new spells and this is just the push I need to get it done.

JNAProductions
2015-11-11, 05:12 PM
Does the class we submit have to have been made specifically for this contest, or can it be something we've made previously?

New Content only please

Is each person limited to only a single entry, or can we submit multiple different classes?

I suppose you can have multiple entries.

Whatever the answers to these questions, I'm in. I've been thinking about making a spellcaster class that spontaneously creates new spells and this is just the push I need to get it done.

Thanks! Glad I could lend a hand.

DracoKnight
2015-11-11, 05:22 PM
JNA, one of my first homebrews was the Dragon Knight . . . It was never properly balanced, so could I use that? If I were to work out the kinks and rework it?

JNAProductions
2015-11-11, 05:24 PM
Was it ever finished?

If not, that's fine.

If it was, then I'll have to say no. New content.

DracoKnight
2015-11-11, 05:31 PM
Was it ever finished?

If not, that's fine.

If it was, then I'll have to say no. New content.

I had levels 1-20 planned out, but it was way too OP, and never properly balanced. I would be bringing new content into it, as basically what I did was poach class features I liked :P

JNAProductions
2015-11-11, 05:34 PM
Alright. I'll allow it.

Turtlemancer
2015-11-11, 07:07 PM
Ok, should I do an unarmed feature (Like Monks, and Barbarians) for the whole shaman class. Or just the Dragon Shaman Archetype.

I am doing a Spirit Shaman, Dragon Shaman, and a Storm Shaman. One for each of the two Shaman types from 3.5, + one based on the Stormlord Prestige class that worked will with Spirit Shamans.

The Dragon Shaman had scales that might explain such a feature but I could argue it is a sort of Spiritual protection granted by the Shamans Totem.

Also odds are Charisma will be the Shamans Spell Ability, either that or wisdom. Would it be acceptable to make use of this spell casting ability as the classes AC Ability for its unarmed trait, or should I use a a different attribute?

Ivellius
2015-11-12, 12:30 AM
I have a Hexblade class that's heavily based on the Paladin chassis that I just posted to Reddit today. (Haven't looked at anyone else's Hexblade attempts, but I'm sure it's been done.)
A) Would that count as new enough (and / or does it matter if it's posted elsewhere)?
B) I assume we need to only post when we have it in a completely finished state? Can we "call" things and polish them up for submission, or how does that work?

Turtlemancer
2015-11-12, 12:32 AM
This is a link to my Shamans Thread if I must re-post I will re-post.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458327-Shaman-Base-Class-for-5th-Edition

Zeuel
2015-11-12, 04:39 AM
I submitted a class to Tribality just before Halloween. I can post a link here if that still qualifies for the contest.

http://tribality.com/2015/10/30/dd-5e-vampire-class-and-custom-backgrounds/

JNAProductions
2015-11-12, 01:07 PM
Please post the class here on Giant in the Playground.

ruy343
2015-11-12, 01:47 PM
I'm happy to participate. I've been meaning to try my hand at homebrewing for some time now...

Now that my graduate school applications are done, I'll actually have some time!

Will you be combining all of the entries into one post (perhaps the first one?) for us to vote upon? I hope that I don't have to scroll through everything to find everyone's entries...

Turtlemancer
2015-11-12, 03:06 PM
I updated my thread some. If you could get to my questions it would be much appreciated. Otherwise ill make some of my own judgment calls.

Zman
2015-11-12, 03:35 PM
I'll toss in a Spellsword Gish-in-a-Can class if I have the time.

Turtlemancer
2015-11-12, 05:15 PM
Ok I am playing with a new feature rather than having auras on the Dragon Shaman. I might add a whole new feature to the Shaman. My only issue is it seems a bit Gamy and I need feedback.
Hows everyone think this mechanic would work for a shaman.

Totems
When a Shaman begins there career they carve a special Totem out of magical wood. This Totem will take the form of there Spirit Guide, and stand around 3ft tall. A as of yet undetermined number of times in-between Long Rests the Shaman may Plant the totem in the ground and it will emit an aura, this aura will have a number of different possible effects for a yet to be determined number of turns.. The Shaman my only produce one of the Aura's he knows at any given time in this way.

Totemic Auras
Each Shaman will-be able to have a total of 4-5 different auras they can produce in this way. There will be 4 core auras attached to the base class, and at least 1 to the Archetypes. I have yet to decide weather or not at max level the shaman will be able to use all 4 core Auras, but it is likely they will only have access to 3 of the four by level 20. Currently I plan to make each of teh Core Auras based n the four seasons. And am Playing with the Spirit Totem Aura.

Mechanics
The Auras will be produced by a stationary totem. So they will be initially 30ft they will not likely increase in range beyond that. I am playing with the idea that the Shaman my carry a totem, but not be able to Attack while doing so.

Totems and Spirit Guide Totems may indeed require concentration, and spirit guide may just counter that. I have yet to decide.

AvatarVecna
2015-11-12, 05:46 PM
I'll toss in a Spellsword Gish-in-a-Can class if I have the time.

Dang it, now I'm gonna feel like a copy-cat! Back to the drawing board...

Mr.Moron
2015-11-12, 07:08 PM
I'll enter this with a Summoner class. Details to come over the weekend.

EDIT: Or sooner than that.


Please post the class here on Giant in the Playground.

I can't stand the forums table tools at all. Can I link through to a PDF?

upogsi
2015-11-13, 04:17 PM
Would it be a good idea to make a compendium PDF with all the (consenting) entries?

Zman
2015-11-13, 06:58 PM
Dang it, now I'm gonna feel like a copy-cat! Back to the drawing board...

Go for it, we'll have a battle of the Gishes!

djreynolds
2015-11-14, 02:35 AM
The Pack Master
I love the picture of that guy in the old Deities and Demigods in Celtic Myths section, he had antlers.

So it got me thinking to create a character that preferred not to attack, and instead used others, normally unwillingly to perform their duties. So help me out with this one.

You receive the wizard starting package for skills, weapon, and armor proficiency. Wisdom and intelligence are your proficiency saves.

You are a caster but you get an additional attack at 5, and maybe 11. But these attacks are for you or your cohorts. You must maintain a special concentration on your cohorts and if you cast a concentration spell, you now have disadvantage on constitution checks.

If you decide to attack, you must break the concentration on your cohorts. This comes with a penalty, the cohort will cease its actions and attack you, a party member, or stand still. But you are still tied to these cohorts and any damage they receive, you receive in psychic damage as well. Constitution saves versus your spell DC for half damage. You also lose this special concentration if you fail your constitution save when you take damage.

You start off with a cohort that is equal to letís say 1/4th CR your character level, and as you increase in level so does the cohort(s). So at second you have 1/2 CR your character level and at 4th you could have a cohort 1 CR. At 20th level you would have a cohort would have 5CR. You can break this up in any manner you wish. At first level you could have 2 1/8th CR cohorts. At 20th level you could break up these cohorts into 1 4th CR AND 4 1/4TH CR cohorts.

You get access to spells, I was leaning towards not attack spells only, just buff spells. When you cast say shield on yourself, you cast it on cohorts 30 ft. If healing is cast upon you, your cohorts are also healed the same amount. I think spell choices will depend on your alignment as well as your casting stat.

When attacking you choose to have your cohorts attack, or help along the same lines of the beastmaster. You can have attack, cohorts 1/4th of your class level. So at first level, if both of your cohorts are 1/8th they can both attack or help, or one attack and one help. So at 7th level when you get 2 attacks, they can also use your bonus action to help.

If you lose concentration you may try to re-establish this by beating your constitution versus your DC save with disadvantage. If your cohorts die you must replenish them, it takes 24 hours to do so.

Needless to say, war caster is a necessary feat to get.

Now what you can get for cohorts will be up to your alignment and spell group selection. Like an evil cleric/ necromancer type caster could get humanoid undead, while an evil druid would get undead animal.

WIP, what do you think? This comes off more like a prestige class, but we could have an archetype for caster/alignment

Turtlemancer
2015-11-14, 01:48 PM
I have made a few minor fixes. In addition after having seen just how tanky the Cleric can be I am making the shaman a full caster with d8 Hit die. I am thinking I will want to shoot for slightly less powerful than the cleric however... As this class has decant offence and some cleric domains make the class almost unkillable.

I am also playing with a new core class feature If you wouldn't mind giving me your feedback on the Idea.

They are Totems that give Powerful Short lasting Auras basically. As I keep overshooting the power on each of my auras I make I figure it might be a good Idea. The Shaman will likely be able to create Place a totem a number of times equal to their wisdom bonus, or proficiency bonus, or Half their Proficiency bonus. Similarly I am looking into making the totems effect last either as long as Their wisdom bonus + there Charisma bonus (Unable to exceed twice there Proficiency score) (this would make for a maximum of 4 rounds at level 1, and a maximum of 12 rounds at 20 or, Just as long as their Proficiency bonus, half the possible rounds. I am also considering making the power of the Shaman's totems scale with Charisma bonus, But they may scale with Proficiency as-well. That is if their bonuses aren't streamlined. Furthermore 1 totem at a time.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-11-14, 02:04 PM
Wooooo! 5e contest!

I had a class in the works to accompany my Advanced Crafting supplement - I was going to call it the Journeyman (though I may come up with a better name). Yet to be seen: whether or not it will work with the basic rules, whether or not I can finish it before December, whether or not it will be any good.

I'll enter if I can, but if not I will definitely vote!

JNAProductions
2015-11-15, 12:37 AM
I'll enter this with a Summoner class. Details to come over the weekend.

EDIT: Or sooner than that.



I can't stand the forums table tools at all. Can I link through to a PDF?

Yes.

Also, please post links on this thread here on this thread so I can compile 'em all in the first post.

Turtlemancer
2015-11-15, 12:46 AM
Wooooo! 5e contest!

I had a class in the works to accompany my Advanced Crafting supplement - I was going to call it the Journeyman (though I may come up with a better name). Yet to be seen: whether or not it will work with the basic rules, whether or not I can finish it before December, whether or not it will be any good.

I'll enter if I can, but if not I will definitely vote!

If its a Class based on crafting or trade skills call it Artisan. As this means someone who has honed their craft into an art.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-11-15, 06:32 AM
If its a Class based on crafting or trade skills call it Artisan. As this means someone who has honed their craft into an art.

The reason I didn't use Artisan for the class name is because I already used it for a feat. And I'm kind of sick of seeing it, on account of the fact that it comes up about once per paragraph in the rules write-up. Plus I thought Journeyman captured some of the 'adventurer' aspect that a class has to have.

There are so few good synonyms for it. Artisan, craftsperson, tradesperson and maker are about all I have to draw on.

Looking a bit closer though, I don't think this one will be compatible with the basic rules, so I won't enter it into the contest.

Turtlemancer
2015-11-15, 06:44 AM
That's a shame.

Zman
2015-11-15, 10:35 AM
Here is my WIP Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?458541-Spellsword(WIP))

Mr.Moron
2015-11-15, 08:17 PM
Here is what I'm willing to call a loose first draft of the Summoner (http://blarmb.com/files/Summoner1stDraft.pdf). If anyone wants to comment.

My Aims:

A primary caster that has abilities focused 2nd a niche rather than strictly enhancing their spells. Think Druid but with summoning rather the shape shifting. Their spell list should be versatile taken across the entire class but very narrow and constrained for any one summoner. Additionally I want them to have flashy connections to special creatures if at all possible, rather simply always pulling out Generic Wolf X.

What's firm:


The Imprint/Manifestation system as general framework. I do want the Summoner to be able call up from a list of creatures they've collected.I want them to be able to choose from weaker monsters I can use all the time and stronger monsters that can only be used sometimes.
Avatars as concept (special powers that build out your spell list). I took the concept of other classes getting class spell lists enhanced by class features and ran with it to the extreme and liked what I got.



What's not firm:


Any of the numbers: This has had only the most cursory balance pass at all, if you can call it that even. The CR thresholds for Manifestations, ranges and damage values on "Summon Avatar" all of it.
The spell lists on Avatars: Right now I just threw things that sounded right without considering how they interact with each other or the Archetypes. For instance I still need to do a pass and make sure most Avatars have at least one ritual spell, so the 2nd level feature of Myth Reading is actually useful.
The Archetype Bonuses: These we're mostly spit ballled and some I like more than others.
"Summon Avatar": I like this but the balance is going to be touchy. These are to be a more powerful than the spells you'd ordinarily have access to, but at the same time take a ton of time to execute and telegraph themselves to enemies.
Spell Knowledge: This is always a feature that's fun to play around with and I think the version here is watered down enough to be OK. You can't for example snipe half-caster spells from them before they can learn them. This is a power boost for the class though and I'd not be opposed to removing it to further limit their spells known.

Specific Items


Summoners don't get access to any direct defensive spells beyond Mage Armor, such as Shield or Stoneskin without using a Spell Knowledge slot. I'm considering going in and removing escape spells (like expeditious retreat) or indirect protection (wall of stone, wall of fire). I want them to feel vulnerable, more so than other casters. If d4 hit dice were still a "Thing" I'd probably be giving them one. I'm not opposed to taking away Mage Armor so that if you want any protection at all you've got to spend the feature on it.
I'd like them to encourage Team Play. Spell Mimicry is useful for buffs and Spell Synchronization can help an ally offensively. Their Summon Avatar abilities are very strong for a class feature not tied to spell slots, but are relatively easy to avoid. The idea here is the summoner might lay down a powerful effect while a teammate follows up with a grapple, dashing around to block an exit, or maybe something like a black tentacles spell.
One balance knob to turn would be to make manifestations retain damage between summoning with them "Resting" when the summoner does, this would make things a bit wordier and more complicated though so it might be better to tamp down on the CR values they can summon if it's a bit much as it is now.
I'm considering adding a "However unlike a Sorcerer you can't replace spells you already know" or a "you can only replace spells with other spells of the same level, rather than of any level you can cast" clause to their spells known.
I just realized that "Master Summoner" and "Unchained Manifestation" (the capstone), are on the table but not implemented yet. Feel free to ignore them.

Turtlemancer
2015-11-16, 11:49 PM
Here is what I'm willing to call a loose first draft of the Summoner (http://blarmb.com/files/Summoner1stDraft.pdf). If anyone wants to comment.

My Aims:

A primary caster that has abilities focused 2nd a niche rather than strictly enhancing their spells. Think Druid but with summoning rather the shape shifting. Their spell list should be versatile taken across the entire class but very narrow and constrained for any one summoner. Additionally I want them to have flashy connections to special creatures if at all possible, rather simply always pulling out Generic Wolf X.

What's firm:


The Imprint/Manifestation system as general framework. I do want the Summoner to be able call up from a list of creatures they've collected.I want them to be able to choose from weaker monsters I can use all the time and stronger monsters that can only be used sometimes.
Avatars as concept (special powers that build out your spell list). I took the concept of other classes getting class spell lists enhanced by class features and ran with it to the extreme and liked what I got.



What's not firm:


Any of the numbers: This has had only the most cursory balance pass at all, if you can call it that even. The CR thresholds for Manifestations, ranges and damage values on "Summon Avatar" all of it.
The spell lists on Avatars: Right now I just threw things that sounded right without considering how they interact with each other or the Archetypes. For instance I still need to do a pass and make sure most Avatars have at least one ritual spell, so the 2nd level feature of Myth Reading is actually useful.
The Archetype Bonuses: These we're mostly spit ballled and some I like more than others.
"Summon Avatar": I like this but the balance is going to be touchy. These are to be a more powerful than the spells you'd ordinarily have access to, but at the same time take a ton of time to execute and telegraph themselves to enemies.
Spell Knowledge: This is always a feature that's fun to play around with and I think the version here is watered down enough to be OK. You can't for example snipe half-caster spells from them before they can learn them. This is a power boost for the class though and I'd not be opposed to removing it to further limit their spells known.

Specific Items


Summoners don't get access to any direct defensive spells beyond Mage Armor, such as Shield or Stoneskin without using a Spell Knowledge slot. I'm considering going in and removing escape spells (like expeditious retreat) or indirect protection (wall of stone, wall of fire). I want them to feel vulnerable, more so than other casters. If d4 hit dice were still a "Thing" I'd probably be giving them one. I'm not opposed to taking away Mage Armor so that if you want any protection at all you've got to spend the feature on it.
I'd like them to encourage Team Play. Spell Mimicry is useful for buffs and Spell Synchronization can help an ally offensively. Their Summon Avatar abilities are very strong for a class feature not tied to spell slots, but are relatively easy to avoid. The idea here is the summoner might lay down a powerful effect while a teammate follows up with a grapple, dashing around to block an exit, or maybe something like a black tentacles spell.
One balance knob to turn would be to make manifestations retain damage between summoning with them "Resting" when the summoner does, this would make things a bit wordier and more complicated though so it might be better to tamp down on the CR values they can summon if it's a bit much as it is now.
I'm considering adding a "However unlike a Sorcerer you can't replace spells you already know" or a "you can only replace spells with other spells of the same level, rather than of any level you can cast" clause to their spells known.
I just realized that "Master Summoner" and "Unchained Manifestation" (the capstone), are on the table but not implemented yet. Feel free to ignore them.


After looking over you summoner stuff, here is what I have for you.

drop the +2 from the summoner spell avatars save dc. Their doesn't seem to be any reason for it beyond just making the Already vary powerful Avatars more powerful.

Spell Knowledge
This is a vary squicky feature its always best not to do something like this. Any Spell list is vary broad and is easily exploited. Also it looks vary lazy. And not really a cool Feature flavorful or meaningful feature. Just vary gamey and kind-of soulless.

Ritual Casting
Probably should be a class feature, If you want this to be linked to Myth Reading make it a bonus of some kind.

Imprinted Communication
Like Ritual Casting. This seems like to much of a core feature. Does help explain what an imprinted creature is though.

Arcane Insight
The first part is cool but I am unsure about the second. Also not a lot of Flavor.

Studied Imprint
This seems like the way you should get imprints in the first place, if anything its the other way that should be an archetype feature.. Also you should add a Knowable Imprints section on your table and limit the number of knowable imprints to some amount I would say 6-7 at ma level. Or heres an Idea.

Imprint Points
Summoners can only know so many Imprints at any given time, The amount of Imprints they can have and how powerful they can be is determined by how many imprint points the Summoner has. A Imprint costs a number of points equal to 4 times a creatures CR. If you drop an imprint or lose it in any other way you get the Imprint Points back.

Weave Watching
Actually Spell Knowledge would work well with this. Still Dont like the Feature but here it would be "Acceptable", Actually this deserves to be its own class. I really think it Might work better as its own class, then again it would have little room for Archetypes so its cool as is,

Spell Mimicry
Awesome Idea! Make it an Arcana check just to be awesome, but specify that you cant learn a spell of a level you cannot cast and it still costs a Spell slot.

Cantrip Investment
Fine, but just use the Summoners level. Like a Familiar. Actually might not need to be a separate feature look up familiars and if they can still do this, make it part of Manifestation in the first place.

Spell Echoes
To quote someone else when they saw the original spirit guide ported into 5e, No, just no.

Summoning Matrix
eh, I'm not sure the whole locked unlocked thing is really worth having other than for this feature, otherwise its fine I guess if a bit redundant.

Essence Sculpting
A bit confusing honestly

Spell Conduit
Cannot figure this one out for the life of me.

Worldly Manifestation
One question Why? Seems more like an ult.

Spell Synchronization
Kind-of a neat idea. Doesn't fit the archetype est of it. But a cool idea non the less.

Hybrid Imprint
Seems more like an unrealized Archetype then a feature. Also needs to be regulated some and maybe to have a way to grant passives.

Will start digging into your Avatars a bit later

The Following is Pure Opinion.

I am not exactly fond of how you get imprints, feels way to gamy. To tell you the truth initially I was not fond of the idea of imprinting and manifesting but then the fluff started sinking in as I read Myth Reading, and it grew on me, Might want to add a bit more fluff to the idea.

I can see what your Going for with the idea of Avatars, a lot like the Big powerful summons from Final Fantasy which is cool. But I don't think the Summoners spell list should be tangled with this. Even when a class gets one of those spell lists its usually on-top of a core spell list, and i closely tied with the classes archetypes.

Speaking of Archetypes, I feel your archetypes are a bit too high concept. Lots of big fancy words that will mean little to the people actually reading them, they also change the flavor of the class way to little. A Archetype needs to feel like a really flavorful change. Think of your Core Class as Cake, and Each Archetype is a Different kind of Cake. One might be Caret Cake, One Chocolate, Another still might be Strawberry. Right know it feels more like each of them is just a different layer of the cake. You should also leave room for more archetypes with more flavors. Also simplify the fluff.

Mr.Moron
2015-11-17, 11:46 AM
After looking over you summoner stuff, here is what I have for you.
<A Large Post>

Thanks for the input!

One big take away here is a lot of confusion on the fluff, which is fair because right now it basically has none save for half paragraph blurbs in the Archetypes.

I'll make sure the next revision fleshes this out, and fills in the enterity of the first-page introduction most classes have. That should do a lot to contextualize their abilties. Just to clarify for now, on the most important point:

Imprint/Manifest:

An "Imprint" is an understanding of a creature both a physical level and in terms of how it's presence is tied into the world on a metaphysical level. You can think of them sort of like spell slots, that store the magical instructions for constructing a creature rather than magic instructions for creating a spell effect. Weaker creatures have simpler patterns, and don't require the spell slot be spent ("Locked") to create, kind of like a Cantrip. The level of creature simple enough to do this with grows along with your power similar to how a Cantrip grows in power over a class level.

From a Gameplay perspective the Lock/Unlock system has a few intents:

To make more powerful creatures a limited resource. Unlocking imprints is actually kind of hard since you don't get your proficiency bonus on them and you only get 1 attempt per long rest, save for high-level Weave Watchers. This means each imprint you have with a CR greater than 1/4 your character level is actually a less than once per day resource. This gives an incentive to spend them judiciously.
To tie the class feature into actual game play. One of the core disagreements you find over the default summoning spells is Player Chooses vs DM Chooses issue. The "Player Chooses" side wants the control to summon what they want to summon and so they can use summoning as means to call up appropriate tools for the situation. The "DM Chooses" side wants to avoid any old oddball random thing turning up that nobody in the setting should have ever heard of so cohesion isn't lost just for power-play cherry picking. This allows the player to choose, but only from a list of things the DM has already introduced to the game. By requiring they defeat the creatures, it also means the player & group get to "Earn" access to the summons.
To make the framework open-ended and compatible. The only thing it cares about is CRs. There aren't any new scores to calculate, no specific lists that won't work with something setting-specific or the DMs customer monster. It doesn't explicitly limit you by creature types, but allows the GM to do so ("No summoning humans, it's creepy") if they feel the need.


Hopefully that should also put some of your questions like those about Worldly Manifestation, Summoning Matrix into context. I'll consider the points on Spell Knowledge & Summon Avatar as those were already points I was wary on. However, I'm doing a bit of a rework on their casting abilities. Specifically I struggled during this whole thing about not really wanting it to be a full, full caster but it certainly isn't a half caster. Rather than force the issue I'm just going to give the class new spell progression. While introducing a new class template is beyond the scope of what I originally wanted it isn't something hard to make fit cleanly into the 5e engine and trimming 8th & 9th level spell slots while slowing progression will give a lot of power/balance room to let Avatars and Manifestations breathe easy.


EDIT: I also like your idea of having an "Imprints Known" and I think I can adjust the framework a bit to fit something like this in now that there will space on the chart. I dislike the idea of a complicated spell-points like system for casting and I'm probably going to stick with Locked/Unlocked as that's a less fiddly system tot rack.

GanonBoar
2015-11-17, 11:56 AM
Ok, I'm up for this.
Can we make a separate thread and then link to it?
Also, I never finished my Arcane Blade class, so can pick it up again and finish it for this contest?

Turtlemancer
2015-11-17, 07:38 PM
Ok, I'm up for this.
Can we make a separate thread and then link to it?
Also, I never finished my Arcane Blade class, so can pick it up again and finish it for this contest?

That's what two of the current three are doing so yeah.

Not sure about the unfinished class thing. But I am pretty sure its perfectly fine.

Mr.Moron
2015-11-17, 08:13 PM
I've updated the Summoner (http://blarmb.com/files/Summoner1stDraft.pdf). I'll wait on more feedback before making revisions to the table abilities or archetypes, but this does have some important changes.
NOTE: This is the same URL as before, the file has just been updated. You may need to refresh to see the new version.


First the class now uses a unique casting progression. While this is obvious unconventional I think it gives the class some more power to allocate to the summoning abilties without getting into that "Half Caster, Add Some Fighting Abilities" trap. I'll add this to the PDF at some point but you can can count it's levels as 3/4th your caster level for multi-classing purposes.

Second the first page with the fluff has been filled out, which hopefully defines the class a bit more. The phrasing here is super clumsy and needs an editing pass or two, but should be sufficient to at least give a picture of what a Summoner "Is" from an universe perspective and how they relate to Avatars/Manifestations.

Third, I condensed "Imprint/Manifest" into one ability called "Summoning" that only deals in manifestations. The core mechanics are the same but overall this should make the language more efficient and make what's going on a bit more clear from a flavor standpoint, I think. I implemented a some definitions about "Major" and "Minor" manifestations and put in a "Manifestations Known" limit as suggested but for now, only on major manifestations. In addition the RAW is now written in a way that no longer requires CRs be exposed to the player before they've obtained the manifestations.

DracoKnight
2015-11-18, 12:10 AM
Do we post the class to this thread for balancing as well, or just after it's balanced?

JNAProductions
2015-11-18, 12:17 AM
Please just post a link for your 'brew in this thread-balancing should be done in its own thread.

I don't want this thread to get too cluttered.

DracoKnight
2015-11-18, 12:18 AM
Please just post a link for your 'brew in this thread-balancing should be done in its own thread.

I don't want this thread to get too cluttered.

That's what I thought, I just wanted to clarify :D

Also, I didn't have time to clean up the Dragon Knight, so I'm bringing a 5e Original Sword Mage - it's not based on a Sword Mage from any previous edition.

EDIT:
Here is my entry for the contest :D

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?460434-5e-Sword-Mage-(PEACH)&p=20089286#post20089286

Flashy
2015-11-18, 02:15 AM
Wooooo! 5e contest!

I had a class in the works to accompany my Advanced Crafting supplement - I was going to call it the Journeyman (though I may come up with a better name). Yet to be seen: whether or not it will work with the basic rules, whether or not I can finish it before December, whether or not it will be any good.

I'll enter if I can, but if not I will definitely vote!

Honestly I quite like calling it Journeyman. Call the capstone "A Master At Last!" or something.

Mr.Moron
2015-11-18, 08:42 AM
Please just post a link for your 'brew in this thread-balancing should be done in its own thread.

I don't want this thread to get too cluttered.

Understood. I've created at thread for mine here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?460607-Summoner)

Ivellius
2015-11-18, 11:45 AM
Does a Google link suffice, or would you like to have a GitP thread for it?

Here's my Hexblade (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byxku3D-MjK3cHRvZUFoeWlKUlE/view?usp=sharing), at any rate. It's basically an arcane Paladin with a few changes--one day I might want to differentiate it a bit more, but I'm fairly happy with it as it is.

GanonBoar
2015-11-18, 12:05 PM
Here's my Arcane Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?456801-Arcane-Blade-Original-Class-%28WIP%29&p=20047799#post20047799). I plan to add a third archetype in the near futur, but it has the minimum of 2.

Zeuel
2015-11-19, 10:10 AM
Here is my Vampire class for 5e: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?460960-New-5e-Class-Vampire

If anyone knows to mess with the formatting for the original post(especially with tables) then I definitely wouldn't mind the help.

ruy343
2015-11-20, 12:46 AM
I wanted to put that Intelligence score to use in a new (non-spellcasting) way. And I'm proud to say, that it's turning out quite all right!

See this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?461189-The-Strategist&p=20097729#post20097729) for my Strategist class!

Leo-Kat
2015-11-21, 02:17 AM
Heya, =^.^= This is my submission to to the contest. I hope you like it this is my first homebrew class.

giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?461681-Elementalist-Homebrew-Class-D-amp-D-5e&p=20101907#post20101907

MoleMage
2015-11-21, 04:09 PM
Wanted another short-rest caster. Coming in with the Runecaster soon(tm)! WIP visible here: Runecaster (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uDylG3Hz6s__YxK5pkm1jwmG8a3LxggndLcifkiPXVM/pub)

Feedback welcomed.


EDIT: Giantitp thread here! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?462931-Runecaster(WIP)-PEACH)

Hipster Dixit
2015-11-24, 06:12 AM
Nice contest! It's a pity I already posted my dread champion... I'll surely apply the next time.

What parameters are taken into account when judging the class, and which are the most important? Balance, uniqueness, amount of content?

Flashy
2015-11-24, 06:28 AM
I'm submitting the Professional (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?463216-The-Professional-A-mundane-support-class-for-5e&p=20113659#post20113659), which is an all mundane support class. It seemed like an at least slightly vacant niche, and it was a really fun one to try to fill.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-11-24, 07:04 AM
What parameters are taken into account when judging the class, and which are the most important? Balance, uniqueness, amount of content?

Is it not a free vote, like a general election?

I was planning to go mainly by balance and uniqueness/coherence of theme, but if there are rules on how to vote, I guess I'll follow them.

JNAProductions
2015-11-24, 10:09 AM
It's just a vote. So pander to the playground! Pander away! :P

But in all seriousness, it really will just be a general vote. I will not be the sole arbiter.

ruy343
2015-11-24, 10:58 AM
Are we going to resolve this via a Google form survey? If so, we could ask about those individual parameters, and then tally up scores based on the individual results...

Ninja_Prawn
2015-11-24, 11:17 AM
Are we going to resolve this via a Google form survey? If so, we could ask about those individual parameters, and then tally up scores based on the individual results...

It's JNAP's contest, and I support the previously-stated position. To me, the word "contest" implies a certain lack of science anyway.

ruy343
2015-11-24, 11:36 AM
It's JNAP's contest, and I support the previously-stated position. To me, the word "contest" implies a certain lack of science anyway.

But... But... Science!

Feel free to handle it however you choose :smallbiggrin:

MoleMage
2015-11-24, 11:49 AM
Runecaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?462931-Runecaster-PEACH)

Now with 100% less WIP!

Reposting because I'm not sure JNAP saw it originally and/or counted my original GoogleDoc post of it.

JNAProductions
2015-11-24, 08:01 PM
I was just gonna manually tally results. If you have a better option, that'd be great.

Turtlemancer
2015-11-25, 02:21 PM
My shaman post has kind-of gone dead so if anyone has any free time I would love it if I could get some fresh eyes on the page.

Mr.Moron
2015-11-28, 01:38 PM
The Summoner (http://blarmb.com/files/Summoner1stDraft.pdf) ( http://blarmb.com/files/Summoner1stDraft.pdf ) has been updated and at this point can be considered complete, but unedited. That is all class features are implemented, the spell and avatar lists are completed and have been checked for compatibility with archetype features.

If you've been following it you may need a hard refresh to catch the changes, depending on your browser. The biggest changes involve some language clarifications, some spell switches and a minor rework of how manifestations have been gained - including more detailed rules for starting manifestations. There are also 3 new avatars, two defensive one utility.

The discussion thread is Here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?460607-Summoner .

Editing checks (spelling, grammar) are especially welcomed as well as any wording that remains ambiguous.


EDIT: Ugh. There are few lines that read "Bonus Manifestation" please ignore these, they're text I forgot to remove from when I was fiddlng with a system where Avatars granted Manifestations as a means of selection. Also the 3rd level spell selection for The Seer of Ages is a copy/paste error. Will correct.

ShamasTheBard
2015-11-28, 08:54 PM
I am going to enter my home brew class, The Emissary.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?465610-5e-The-Emissary-P-E-A-C-H&p=20131788#post20131788

Ivellius
2015-11-30, 12:05 AM
My Hexblade (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byxku3D-MjK3cHRvZUFoeWlKUlE/view?pli=1) was never counted, either. Does it need a separate post on the forum here?

JNAProductions
2015-11-30, 12:08 AM
Make a thread for the HExblade, please.

sorryjzargo
2015-11-30, 12:33 AM
I probably won't be finished in time for the deadline, but My class is the devoted operator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?464945-Devoted-Operator-class-W-I-P). I'm trying to go for a slightly anime/mecha feel without abandoning the high fantasy setting. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! I just finished it, but I'm planning on adding a third subclass in the near future.

Mr.Moron
2015-11-30, 09:26 PM
Put in what's likely to be the last update on the Summoner (http://blarmb.com/files/Summoner1stDraft.pdf). Probably still rough around the edges editing wise, but one only has so much time for these things.

Ivellius
2015-11-30, 11:42 PM
Hexblade thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?467003-Hexblade-Class-Battle-Misfortune-and-Shadow-Archetypes&p=20140099#post20140099). Had to get it in for the deadline.

Flashy
2015-12-01, 03:06 PM
Voting begins today, yes?

Should we send a PM to JNA with our vote, or is there another plan?

JNAProductions
2015-12-01, 07:23 PM
Yes.

Please just post your vote here on the thread.

ShamasTheBard
2015-12-01, 08:24 PM
Well I vote for The Emissary obviously. :tongue: I don't know if creators can vote in this contest though.

JNAProductions
2015-12-01, 08:25 PM
Creators can vote, but only for other classes.

Ivellius
2015-12-01, 08:28 PM
Any sort of guidelines on how to vote? Just pick our favorite and we get to justify the choice? I think I've been through everyone's and left comments for most / all of them.

JNAProductions
2015-12-01, 08:42 PM
Just say: "I vote for [Class]". No justification needed.

Mr.Moron
2015-12-01, 08:46 PM
Any sort of guidelines on how to vote? Just pick our favorite and we get to justify the choice? I think I've been through everyone's and left comments for most / all of them.

You missed mine (The Summoner) I think! Not that I'm begging for votes, I just like feedback.

EDIT: Feedback Thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?460607-Summoner


Just say: "I vote for [Class]". No justification needed.

I think comments on why classes were chosen would be useful for the creators though, or if there was a runner up etc.. -

Flashy
2015-12-02, 01:43 AM
Well since we're doing it in thread I'll kick the voting off with a vote for the Summoner.


It's largely balanced, deeply flavorful, and does a remarkable job of mixing old mechanics with new. Having the character's spell list be determined by the chosen avatars rather than individually selected is probably one of my all time favorite homebrew design choices. It was just the class that reached out to me as something I would really want to play.

ShamasTheBard
2015-12-02, 01:45 AM
Lots of really good choices here, but I have to vote for the Shaman just because of sheer presentation.

cooldes
2015-12-02, 05:38 AM
Voting for Devoted Operator Class.

Amazing idea, and best of all, Very easy to make and no new mechanics to understand(unless you count the rage-ish thing as new). minimal Bookkeeping(which i like in a 5e class) and most importantly looks very fun to play.

only thing i'd change is set lvl 20 to unlimited uses like barbarian and druid.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-12-02, 05:53 AM
There are some very good classes here and choosing just one is a tough call.

I'm going to vote for The Professional, because it's unique, it looks like it would be super fun to play and the balance is good.

JNA, can we get a table in the OP to show the current vote tally please?

Arkhios
2015-12-02, 06:48 AM
The decision was a hard one, but The Professional gets my vote, because it falls into a niche which haven't been explored in 5th edition before.

sorryjzargo
2015-12-02, 02:11 PM
Voting for Devoted Operator Class.

Amazing idea, and best of all, Very easy to make and no new mechanics to understand(unless you count the rage-ish thing as new). minimal Bookkeeping(which i like in a 5e class) and most importantly looks very fun to play.

only thing i'd change is set lvl 20 to unlimited uses like barbarian and druid.

Thanks so much! Just having one vote means a whole lot to me!

For my vote, I vote for Vampire. I love the idea of that being a class, rather than a template, even though I have a few issues with the implementation.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-12-02, 02:15 PM
For my vote, I vote for Vampire. I love the idea of that being a class, rather than a template, even though I have a few issues with the implementation.

I like the vampire too. It's so hard to judge the balance though, because it's so complex. If it doesn't win, it definitely deserves and 'honourable mention'.

Ivellius
2015-12-04, 12:31 PM
Also a really tough decision, but I'm going to go with the Strategist for my vote.

Ninja_Prawn
2015-12-04, 01:28 PM
How is it that there are fewer votes than entries? Should it not be a condition of entry, that a brewer has to vote? Otherwise the ones who don't cast any vote (which would have to be for one of their rivals) are gaining an advantage.

Ivellius
2015-12-04, 01:44 PM
How is it that there are fewer votes than entries? Should it not be a condition of entry, that a brewer has to vote? Otherwise the ones who don't cast any vote (which would have to be for one of their rivals) are gaining an advantage.

Well, Zman who submitted the Spellsword early last month not only stopped working on it but got mad when I pointed it out. Perhaps a few of the other creators have similarly abandoned this.

I thought it only right as a content creator that I go through and give feedback on all of the entries, though. *shrugs*

Mr.Moron
2015-12-04, 04:14 PM
How is it that there are fewer votes than entries? Should it not be a condition of entry, that a brewer has to vote? Otherwise the ones who don't cast any vote (which would have to be for one of their rivals) are gaining an advantage.

I'm not particularly enamored with any of the other classes, not gaming the system just the way it is =/. If I gotta vote I'd vote for The Professional because I think it's well-designed and very functional.

MoleMage
2015-12-04, 05:44 PM
My vote is for the Strategist, as I always am happy to see this niche created and I feel like it had a good balance.

ruy343
2015-12-04, 05:55 PM
Sorry, life has caught up with me a bit, and I do intend to vote and offer suggestions to other classes. When is the due date for votes?

JNAProductions
2015-12-04, 06:54 PM
Imma say the tenth.

ruy343
2015-12-04, 06:57 PM
The 10th. I can do the 10th.

Steampunkette
2015-12-05, 05:56 AM
I'm going to throw my vote to the Strategist. Even though I think the name should've been Commander.

Intelligence as an important stat for a martial character? Yes, please!

ShamasTheBard
2015-12-05, 01:35 PM
Well, Zman who submitted the Spellsword early last month not only stopped working on it but got mad when I pointed it out. Perhaps a few of the other creators have similarly abandoned this.

I thought it only right as a content creator that I go through and give feedback on all of the entries, though. *shrugs*

So far I have definitely appreciated yours and Mr. Morons feedback.

Turtlemancer
2015-12-08, 10:53 PM
Despite not wanting too (I am Petty and dont want to give the leading competitor another leg up) I will have to cast my vote onto the strategist its the best presented, most well thought out, and most intuitive class out of the bunch. I just cant bring myself to vote for anyone else, besides maybe the summoner.

I simply believe the first and most important part of the process in making a class is KIS (I leave off the stupid part) people need to be able to pick up the class and read what it does and say hey this is what this class does. I know I am a bit guilty here which is why I try to keep my explanations as simplistic as possible, which leads me to the second part presentation.

Presentation is almost as important as mechanics as if you present an feature with a wordy complex way even Orc Smash Car can look like thermodynamic, or worse like the scribbles of a madman. Its important to break up and section everything off so it reads well. (Yes I know I failed here a bit myself) I think we could all learn a bit from Ruy343 on this one.

Finally its important to follow through with an idea there where a couple of ideas here I was really pulling for but that didn't really pan out in time. Kind of like My original shaman Archetype. (My other two where based on classes from previous editions though the Spirit shaman saw a lot of changes).

JNAProductions
2015-12-08, 10:55 PM
Two days till voting ends.

Turtlemancer
2015-12-09, 04:18 PM
I would like to thank everyone who gave me feedback throughout the competition, and JNA for starting this competition for without it I may never have began building my dream class in the shaman.

Finally, I will likely continue to work on my Shaman even after the competition is finished so I would love any support I might get from you.

If JNA doesn't plan on making another competition, I will and the theme will likely be Paradox or Contrast. With Good & Evil and Light & Dark and Law & Chaos, out of the running. (Ain't I a stinker?)

JNAProductions
2015-12-09, 06:13 PM
I'll be making more contests, don't you worry.

sorryjzargo
2015-12-09, 11:08 PM
I have a player playtesting my class in the game I DM, so I'm definitely going to keep working on the devoted operator after the contest

Ninja_Prawn
2015-12-10, 07:01 AM
I'll be making more contests, don't you worry.

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of demand on these fora for 5e contests. This can't be the last one.

You know, we should create some official 'prize' images for people to put in their sign or whatever. That would be cool.

JNAProductions
2015-12-10, 12:40 PM
And the winner is... THE STRATEGIST!

Congrats Ruy-sometime within the following week, I'll whip up a new subclass for you!

ruy343
2015-12-10, 02:47 PM
I sincerely apologize; I should not win the contest because I still haven't offered feedback/votes. I had planned to do so tonight.

I feel honored to have won the contest, and frankly a bit surprised; it's my first homebrew! However, because I have not done my part post-production, I hereby defer my victory to the designer of the Professional, as they were likely far more active in voting/feedback to other participants.

JNAProductions
2015-12-10, 02:56 PM
Okay, then the winner is... THE PROFESSIONAL!

JNAProductions
2015-12-10, 09:59 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?471755-Base-Class-Contest-II-Light-and-Dark-5E&p=20180242#post20180242

Base class contest II.

Turtlemancer
2016-01-01, 06:13 PM
So whene are we gonna see that archetype?

JNAProductions
2016-01-01, 09:20 PM
It's on the Professional thread.