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TOAOMT
2007-05-31, 12:14 AM
Alright, I had an entire rewrite of the monk class ready and as I put it on here my keyboard messed up and I ended up losing it all so I'm just starting with the outline, the whole class will come later.

One thing is that Flurry would always grant an extra attack, and that decisive strike could be used as a full attack. The Monk would have his choice as to which he took.

Also he would get an ability at some point that let him use his Wisdom mod as DR/-.

To comepensate for mobility he would get really nice jumpy abilities. Wouldn't let him fly but it would allow him to snatch something out of the air.

Also he would get the ability to add his wisdom to the impact of his punch.

Those are some notable things. It's less an edit and more a complete and total rewrite, I really don't care for the way the monk is done now.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-31, 12:57 AM
1) Pick up the Tome of Battle, Book of Nine Swords

2) Read the Swordsage

3) Replace Monk with Swordsage

4) Profit. No ??? needed.

TOAOMT
2007-05-31, 01:28 AM
Your idea intrigues me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

BDO
2007-05-31, 11:05 AM
Could you please elaborate if those are additions or replacements, and if, what was replaced?

Khoran
2007-05-31, 11:11 AM
1) Pick up the Tome of Battle, Book of Nine Swords

2) Read the Swordsage

3) Replace Monk with Swordsage

4) Profit. No ??? needed.

Not everyone wants to use BoNS. Some guys in my group don't like playing them. They recognize they're not overpowered, they just don't like playing them. Eliminating the ability to play a monk is not a good thing.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-31, 02:14 PM
Not everyone wants to use BoNS. Some guys in my group don't like playing them. They recognize they're not overpowered, they just don't like playing them. Eliminating the ability to play a monk is not a good thing.

I disagree. A Swordsage has nearly the exact same flavor as a monk. Heck, you can even do an unarmed Swordsage (using the four styles which have favored weapon: Unarmed), and have 99% of everything a monk should be, without the suckage.

Indon
2007-05-31, 02:43 PM
I disagree. A Swordsage has nearly the exact same flavor as a monk. Heck, you can even do an unarmed Swordsage (using the four styles which have favored weapon: Unarmed), and have 99% of everything a monk should be, without the suckage.

You fail to understand that 'class flavor with vaguely similar mechanics' is by no means equivalent to 'class' for many, if not the vast majority of people who play this game.

Edit: But to be constructive:

-Remove multiclassing limitations. If you're concerned about monk dippers, let monks multiclass after level 5 (you could say they've mastered their discipline such that they can explore other paths simultaneously).
-Increase to a full BAB.
-Give 2 more skill points per level.

Telonius
2007-05-31, 02:57 PM
I've been toying around with possible fixes for the Monk for awhile now. Here's a few suggestions that I keep coming back to.

- HD improves to d8.
- Remove the alignment restrictions. Multiclassing restrictions stay as they are.
- If a monk has two hands free, they count as a two-handed weapon for purposes of disarming.
- At 4th level, a monk can enchant his fists as though they were weapons after by using a meditation ritual that focuses the monk's ki. This ritual costs the same in time and XP as the Craft Magic Arms/Armor feat, and uses incense costing the equivalent in gold. Total cost bonus can't exceed his monk level/2. The enchantment bonus applies to all unarmed strikes (headbutts, kicks, etc). The monk need not have access to any required spells for this ritual.
The monk can use a similar ritual to focus his ki defensively, granting bonuses to Armor without penalty to Flurry of Blows. Special: the costs in time, gold, and XP cannot be reduced by any means. No one can help the Monk by granting time, gold, XP, or other expertise.
- Replace 12th-level ability Abundant Step with Air Walk for 2x Monk level rounds per day. (Not necessarily consecutively).

Catch
2007-05-31, 03:05 PM
- HD improves to d8.


The monk's hit die is already a d8.

Also, add another tally mark next to "Use a Swordsage." Melee just can't effectively compete without ToB.

Telonius
2007-05-31, 03:10 PM
Whoops, typo there, meant d10.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-05-31, 04:43 PM
You fail to understand that 'class flavor with vaguely similar mechanics' is by no means equivalent to 'class' for many, if not the vast majority of people who play this game.

Edit: But to be constructive:

-Remove multiclassing limitations. If you're concerned about monk dippers, let monks multiclass after level 5 (you could say they've mastered their discipline such that they can explore other paths simultaneously).
-Increase to a full BAB.
-Give 2 more skill points per level.

Yes, you're right, I don't understand. Just like Miko calls herself a Samurai even though she has absolutely no levels in any samurai class, she's a monk/paladin. Anyone can call themselves anything. Roll up a Swordsage, go unarmed, and call yourself a monk. Who's gonna care if it isn't the SRD monk class? Anything you come up with isn't going to be either.

Indon
2007-05-31, 05:13 PM
Yes, you're right, I don't understand. Just like Miko calls herself a Samurai even though she has absolutely no levels in any samurai class, she's a monk/paladin. Anyone can call themselves anything. Roll up a Swordsage, go unarmed, and call yourself a monk. Who's gonna care if it isn't the SRD monk class? Anything you come up with isn't going to be either.

OOTS is a strip that parodies the idiosyncrasies of D&D. Miko's class selection is a joke. Because it is counterintuitive.

Alleine
2007-05-31, 05:34 PM
I'm getting really tired of all the people drooling over swordsages and touting their 'superior' powers over the monk. Its just annoying since it happens in any thread with monks.

MeklorIlavator
2007-05-31, 05:38 PM
OOTS is a strip that parodies the idiosyncrasies of D&D. Miko's class selection is a joke. Because it is counterintuitive.


Actually, if I read the argument, it is a parody of the need for occupation=Class. A samaria is simply someone of a Fedeul Japanese society who, in return for his armed services, is given a small holding. Nothing in the Samuria Class itself makes you an inherantly better Samurai than one who takes fighter of even Miko's build, and then calls themselves samurai.



I'm getting really tired of all the people drooling over swordsages and touting their 'superior' powers over the monk. Its just annoying since it happens in any thread with monks.

Well, when a someone wants a solution to a problem, it is generally percived as most helpful to give the simplest answer. In the case of making monks better, the swordsage is the simplest answer, and can even fit the flavor better in some cases(can do judo-eque things with setting sun, monks can't).

Nostri
2007-05-31, 11:21 PM
Here's the best reason that I can think of to offer advise to the OP beyond "just play a swordsage". Well actually there's two reasons I can think of.

1. He asked for help on a write-up to fix monks. He didn't ask if there were any classes out there that were better then monks but for help making his version of the monk better. That in and of itself negates most of the posts.
2. The other reason is that not everyone has ToB or wants to use it. Not everyone can afford to shell out $30-$40 each time WotC decides they came up with another great idea, sorry.

@TOAOMT: I think I'm not entirely sure what you posted. It looks like you started to post the changes you were going to make (in fact I'm pretty sure you said that) but everything that you added monks can do already except for the air jumpy thing. Explain more and I'll try to help where I can.