Redo to Casting on Defensive?

[Quietus]

An idea came to me tonight while pondering the overpoweredness of casters, and WHY they're overpowered - part of it, in my experience, is because even while threatened, they can cast on the defensive and get their spells off anyway. While I do think this is a good mechanic, I started wondering, what can be done to make it so that even high-level characters might have a chance of failing?

So, I came up with this : a change to the DC of the check. Currently, it stands at 15+spell level, so beyond level ten you almost never fail a check again. What would the long-term repercussions be of changing it to

15+spell level+BAB of whatever you're fighting

Using the highest BAB if multiple creatures are threatening you. I'm going on the premise that most things of your CR have BAB of approximately your level or lower. This means that generally, rather than the concentration skill rising twice as fast as the DC, the chance of failure will remain more or less stable, because you'll also be picking up things like magical enhancements. It also means that the more physically threatening a creature is, the more likely it is that you'll have a hard time concentrating to cast on defensive; I do like that idea.

What do you guys think?

[Psionic Dog]

I'm not sure I like adding a penalty at all levels, including low ones. A L2 Kobold warrior would make a big problem for a L1 caster. Perhapse 12 + Spell Level + BAB would be better with this varrient.

But seriously, how many casters are goint to max out concentration anyway? With only 2+ int for most primary casters, only wizards have the skills to spend.

[DracoDei]

Do sorcerers have THAT much better to do with the skill points?
And I agree that 15 is too high to start with if you use this variation...
Perhaps even more realistic in the vein you are exploring would be:
(some constant from 20 to 25) + Spell Level + BAB highest threatening enemy - caster's AC

[Quietus]

I'm not sure I like adding a penalty at all levels, including low ones. A L2 Kobold warrior would make a big problem for a L1 caster. Perhapse 12 + Spell Level + BAB would be better with this varrient.

But seriously, how many casters are goint to max out concentration anyway? With only 2+ int for most primary casters, only wizards have the skills to spend.

A L2 kobold warrior would be 17+1, or max 18. I can see how that'd be a slight problem, but most casters have around +6 anyway (4 ranks, 2 con). That's assuming they didn't pick up Skill Focus or Combat Casting. I can see that argument. I was considering 10, but perhaps 12 is a better option. That'd make your average fight at level 1 a DC 14 check, and your average at level 20 a DC 32+spell level check - it DOES make it far more difficult to cast those higher level spells. And near-impossible for those without magical enhancement to cast defensively in front of a dragon, which is something to consider, I suppose.

The 12 does balance more nicely... I don't know why I was stuck on either 10 or 15 base.

[Khoran]

10+Spell Level would be good. For a wizard against a fighter (or anyone else with a full bab), the wizard would need to roll a 16 to be able to cast a 9th level spell and an 11 for a Rogue or something else with medium BAB. The DC would obviously need to be against the highest BAB threatening you.

Also, what would be nice would be a feat in there that makes it so that you have a bonus to casting interuption. Like, +2 on your DC.

[Poppatomus]

To me though, part of the difference between balance and just nerf is raising up others rather than just getting rid of the strong. That may be appropriate here, but here's an alternate suggestion. I first posted this in vorpals sun based spells thread.


Oooh!! Shiny
Req: Dex +13

When in broad daylight, or within the area of any similarly strong lighting effect, you may use your items to reflect some of this light to disrupt your opponents. As a standard action you can disrupt an enemy, forcing one target within 30 ft to make a concentration check against 10+ your character level or be distracted. This power can only be used if you are wearing metal armor or wielding a metal weapon.

one could, if they were more game mechanically inclined then myself, easily add a way to add this to a while threatened caster check, or perhaps force them to make two seperate checks.

I am not saying this is the only way to do this, but might it not be preferreable , as khoran suggested as well, to give more power to the weaker classes, rather than the more indirect route of making the check tougher for the strong class?

[Quietus]

10+Spell Level would be good. For a wizard against a fighter (or anyone else with a full bab), the wizard would need to roll a 16 to be able to cast a 9th level spell and an 11 for a Rogue or something else with medium BAB. The DC would obviously need to be against the highest BAB threatening you.

Also, what would be nice would be a feat in there that makes it so that you have a bonus to casting interuption. Like, +2 on your DC.

Level 20, DC 39 for a 9th level spell (using ten base against a 20 BAB opponent). 23 ranks, assume would have to roll a 16... then con and feats come into play. .... I've been assuming a 20 con (with items, of course), but not all spellcasters are optimized like that, I suppose. That'd be 28, they'd have to roll an 11... or 8 with a feat. I do like that.

How was I working my math before? :scratchchin:

[Helgraf]

10+Opponent BAB+Spell Level.

Or, if you want to make defensive casting harder when you're mobbed (as it probably should be)..

10+BAB of highest opponent+1 per additional opponent threatening+ Spell Level.