View Full Version : Dming Question

2007-06-04, 09:05 AM
Hi there, Im going to write an adventure, and then either myself or my current dm will run it. Im havent really wrote a higher powered adventure. So my question is What kind of monsters and traps do you use for a level 10 adventure

2007-06-04, 12:04 PM
All Bs:

a Beholder, a Behir, and a Blue dragon.

No, seriously.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-06-05, 02:58 AM
A Beholder will slaughter a level 10 party if it's played right. Hell, even if it's played WRONG.

2007-06-05, 03:32 AM
Beholder is the Batman of monsters.

It'd certainly help if you told us the composition of your party.

Galdor Miriel
2007-06-05, 07:10 AM

Have at least one death trap, at level ten they should be willing to take those risks. A room that fills with Acid if the monster pulls the lever or a rigged ceiling or some such.

Great challenges include effect traps or areas. PCs walk into dungeon, pcs smell funny smell, pcs make fort save, oh dear, wizard nauseated and cannot cast. Thats what I call democratising.

Good traps that just knock off a few hp and make them cautious. Flames, waves of cold etc.

Personally I love illlusionary traps. See if you can make them waste 5 rounds bypassing a trap that isn't while the baddies get into position. You have to give them a clue though for story.

Monsters: Just use the challenge ratings appropriately and think about your parties strength.

If they have really high pluses to hit, they might annihilate a supposedly high challenge group of orcs. t depends on the party.

Enjoy, and make sure you dm it. You cannot play your own adventures...

2007-06-05, 09:05 AM
Im not sure on what the party will play but from experiance here is their most likely choice of play. A barbarian who issnt realy up-to-date on the rules he just likes to hit stuff. A ninja or rouge played by a fairly good rule knowing guy. A Sword and Sheild fighter that know some of the rules but doesnt try and optimize his character (probally by far the most fun to play with) and for the forth member varies but is wanting to play a sorcerer in the current adventure. He knows the most rules out of the group except me. The only problem, is that he likes to optimize the hell out of anything he plays well most of the time he dosnt like our dm's current procedures right now, so maby thats why *shrugs*. I had an idea to somehow get them dragged into the middle of a war by the major powers of the area but ill take any thing given to me

By the way i liked the trap ideas

2007-06-05, 09:13 AM
What will be the purpose of the adventure?

Heavy on the traps but avoid deathtraps (no rogues in party), and several monsters using those traps to keep adventurers down. I always try to send more lower CR creatures than a single larger CR creature because one lucky hit and the encounter is over.

Beholders are death to the party you mention if they have no ranged weapons.

2007-06-05, 09:22 AM
Originally I wanted to get dragged into the middle of a war bertween the to powers probally to go and get rid of the other. But Im open to suggestions.

Is their any way to get them to stop being so mele dependant. Ussually the tactic is

Fighter runs up and hit the orc
Barbarian runs up and hits the orc
Ninja runs up and stabs one in the face instant kill pwnage!!!!!
Dm over the arguments of pissed of players) You cant do that roll for damage.

and so on

2007-06-05, 09:40 AM
Uhm.....melee characters are melee dependant.

2007-06-05, 09:45 AM
Okkay is thier any way to change their tactic to more than just attack.... or at least to get them more creative.

2007-06-05, 09:50 AM
You know their limitations. Work around it. Make the dungeon floor move, or enemies fly.

2007-06-05, 11:50 PM
You teach them new techniques by having enemies use them, i.e. bull rush, disarm, trip, grapple, cover and concealment, etc.

2007-06-05, 11:59 PM
Or by killing them.

2007-06-06, 12:13 AM
They didn't make a balanced party. You can challenge them just by throwing in a little bit of everything.

Toss them things that would have been easy had they had a cleric or arcane caster around. Challenges maybe that require ranged weapons, or just stuff they can't actually fight.

Not all of the time though. Just on occasion. You don't want to bully them into playing other things if all 3 of them are into the melee thing. You want them to feel heroic and to have fun doing what they want to do. Every once in a while though shake it up with challenges they can't get through simply with thier sword.

Like flying archers or something.

2007-06-06, 12:18 AM
Like flying archers or something.

Pshh. Everyone knows how to defeat this; you just throw the sword at the archers.

2007-06-06, 01:28 AM
The holy grail of DMing isn't DM fiat, although that can be a handy trick. Players are stupid. Knowledge is power, and they only know what you tell them. You control the DC for knowledge skills. You control the answers for divination spells. Everything your players know about their game, they learn from you. This is even true for players who have the MM sitting open in front of them. You can make even mundane enemies a surprise by simply not telling them what it is. Instead of saying, "You see a troll," describe it. Change the description. Instead of green skin, make it bruise-blue. Make it grotesquely obese. Give it a full head of hair and goat horns. Now you've got a swamp troll. Same stats, same abilities as the troll in the MM (which is now a "forest troll"), only they can't identify it from the MM, and so they don't immediately break out the fire. If they don't think to try to roll those knowledge skills to see if they have any information about the creature, that's their fault. Six of those swamp trolls can even harry a high level party. It won't be a lethal encounter, but it'll be one hell of a recurring nuisance. Especially if they regenerate and show up during another encounter, or start attacking while they're trying to rest.

The DM has the advantage here. You know their attack bonus, damage range, AC, saves, spells, magic items, etc. You know what their enemies' stats are. You control what they encounter, and what magic items they fight. Go after their weaknesses (everybody has them, even the fapfap trio). Make them work smarter and harder.

The red herring is your friend. Give them the clues they need, and give them information that looks like it's correct but just leads them down the wrong path. Figuring out what's true and what's false is part of their challenge. If they're not paying attention, or if they draw the wrong conclusion, that's their problem. You can really work over a party of four (complete with fully buffed CoDzilla) using a lower CR than their average party level if you pull a Kansas City Shuffle and catch them with their pants down.

The best way to promote tactics among the players is to take the kiddie gloves off. Get more lethal. Use ability score damage and negative levels. Either one will turn spellcasters into sitting ducks. The beauty is there are spells to protect them from it, if they're smart enough to prepare them. Of course, you can't prepare every spell. Something's gotta give.

For building an adventure, you'll want to use a range of monster CRs. Have a lot of stuff with a CR several points below the party level to use as cannon fodder. Have a few more monsters that are "on the level" with them. Mix and match your encounters. Have them cut through a quick fight or two with a whole mess of peons, then let them go toe to toe with something that's tough enough to put up a fight. The level-appropriate encounter is a lot more exciting if some of your resources are already spent.

For a twist, you might consider having a really tough monster that they're supposed to avoid fighting. Make them think twice about getting into fights, because Beatdown Bob might hear the ruckus and show up to introduce himself.

Don't overuse traps unless you're either planning it on being trap-intensive, or they're a rogue focused group. Without either a cleric to patch folks up or a trap-jockey rogue, your traps should primarily serve to soften up the character or slow them down. That being said, this certainly doesn't mean you should spare them. The group not having a rogue is their own fault. They should still have to deal with the occasional trap, but the death traps should be kept to a minimum. If you must use a death trap without a rogue to find and remove it, the trap should be presented in such a way that they can outsmart it. For example, a death laser that sucks out their souls shoots from the door on the far side of the room, but can be deflected with a mirror. At the same, if the party is higher level, you can generally cut loose with some of the more basic stuff like arrow traps. There's a whole big section on traps in the DMG. Notice that even some of the CR1 traps can be a serious nuisance.

You'll also need a plot to tie it all together. Be merciless with your players, but give them the clues to put the puzzle together as well. You do owe it to them to give them a fighting chance.

2007-06-06, 09:06 AM
Ok just got the most likly party line up. A Fighter/Paladin of Freedom (not sure on that can anybody give me a link.) A Barbarian/Animal Lord (Bear), a Ninja/Ranger, and a Sorcerer/Elemental Savent. I dont have my books right now so i dont know if thier are any prequists problems.

2007-06-06, 09:37 AM
A Fighter/Paladin of Freedom (not sure on that can anybody give me a link.)
Certainly. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny)