OOTS #460 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Netherwood]

Eeeexcellent. Miko once again demonstrates her personal patented style of insanity.

After Miko's fall, her first act when she had some alone time was to kneel and pray. I had hoped--hoped--that the shock of Falling had driven home to her that she is not the will and perception of the gods incarnate, that she can and does mess up, quite frequently, and that she must humble herself a bit if she wishes to serve the will of the gods.

I had hoped.

And the first thing she does is, "hey, lookit me, I can do stuff again! Clearly this means the gods are telling me that the first thing I thought of and want to do is, in fact, their will! Woohoo!" Erg.

This reminds me of an 8-bit theater comic. Fighter is under delusions that the random slaughter the Light Warriors do is noble so long as they act according to the will and good of the people at large; another Light Warrior (Red Mage, I believe) asked what would happen if they themselves were the representatives of the people necessary to interpret the will and needs of the people. Fighter responds that their actions would, obviously, justify themselves.

Miko's gotten to the point where she sees herself as basically the servant of the gods, the only servant of the gods, and interprets her will as theirs. Everything she does or perceives automatically justifies itself to her. That she still does this after being handed indisputable proof that the gods do not approve of her actions scares me more than anything that has happened recently in this comic. This shakes me worse than the slaughter of the Sapphire Guard and the fall of Azure City. I hope that something will knock some humility into her and the megalomania out soon, or bad things will happen wherever Miko goes. Maybe Soon will have a chance to verbally rip into her in the throne room. Whatever it is, I just hope it happens.

[psiryu]

Do you think Miko will have Roy rasied just to kill him?

[The Glitter Ninja]

Ouch. The last panel is pretty grim. You'd think someone would have strolled over and recovered the body by now (someone from the wrong side, of course). Or at least have a snappy one-liner from Xykon:

:xykon: "Clean-up in aisle 7!"

[sherlock]

Ouch, this was a necessary strip for plot development I guess, but it was not funny, rather gave me a very, very bitter taste ...
Nevertheless, you're a great story teller, Giant!

[MoelVermillion]

I nearly feel sorry for Miko, even through all this she remains as deluded as ever. Great strip Giant its good to see that Miko will remain to be an interesting (yet unloveable) character.

[Breaon]

Great strip, as always. Further reinforces the notion (perhaps fact) that Miko is just bugnuts crazy and deluded.

[Jawajoey]

I liked the comic. Further solidifying my disdain for Miko, grim humor at the end, good stuff. I can't wait to find out what Miko does next.

[Dark Wolf]

I have 2 theories.

1. Miko will run into the throne room and because she is a fallen paladin or something will throw off the spell summoning the ghost martyrs. Either that or she'll interfere and make things worse with the excuse she's supposed to be there because the gods didn't stop her.

2. Roy is going to be partially eaten by the vultures so when/if he is raised they have to use some special spell.

[kpenguin]

It seems that Soon doesn't tolerate insults to his 'stache.

[Zicmu]

Do you think Miko will have Roy rasied just to kill him?
Miko and Nale should team up then. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0396.html

[Querzis]

I said it before and I feel I will have to say it again: Miko is totally insane.

...poor Roy. Cant someone bring his body out of vulture range? V you are invisible and there is no hobgobelins left outside the city, what are you waiting for?

[Caractacus]

Ooohhh..The Giant will start a flame war with this! :smalltongue:

Is fun comic! :smallcool:


Miko's long road to redemption is just beginning, methinks... Soon (sorry!) she will realise what has happened and this will open her eyes sufficiently to allow eventual recovery...

I hope.

[Bakta]

I guess there is a reason to hit the nail on the head showing Miko's being delusional once more; yet I failed to find this one to be even mildly amusing:smallconfused:

[TheJustWiseSage]

Ouch. The last panel is pretty grim.

Don't know why but the last panel reminds me a lot of the legend of Prometheus. I guess it's because he's landed on rock and has a wound around his liver area and the birds are closing in. First Hero and all that.


Wasn't there a rumor kicking around that a OoTS member would be come disfigured?

[Dr'uun Unnh]

I kind of did a double-take when I saw panel #10.

Miko... smiling? Is this the first time?

I'm not saying that I find it bad or anything-

It's just that toothy grin is probably going to give me nightmares. :tongue:

[Eldhrin]

I don't think it was supposed to be funny, although I find Miko's continual thickheadedness somewhat amusing.

Fallen Miko vs Xykon and Redcloak is going to be interesting. Given that she was winning last time she fought Redcloak, I would say that without her Paladin abilities she might have a problem, but Redcloak's used a lot of spells and so has Xykon, so she might actually manage to be useful.

[Glorfindel]

So it will be Miko who will defeat Xykon?

[Ben7el]

Anyone else think that MAYBE, just maybe, the Twelve Gods really wanted Miko to help Soon fight Xykon, and that they really did weaken the bars.

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense.

"Hmmm, we have a high level fighter, who is in jail, who has sworn to protect a gate which can end the world, and our current defenders are not looking to good."

*Zaps prison bar*

[Fenix]

It seems that Soon doesn't tolerate insults to his 'stache.

or his mother´s :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, poor Roy :smallfrown:

[RMS Oceanic]

This comic is not as funny as previous ones, but it doesn't need to be. It pretty much sets up Miko's character for a large portion of the comic ahead. She has now interpreted her divine mission, protecting the gate aside, to be to Punish the Order of the Stick, especially Belkar and Roy. Belkar for being evil, and Roy for siding with him. She will now take everything that aids her in this "mission", such as the infinitesimal crack in the bars, as a sign that the Gods want her to do this. The fact she's heading to the throne room over tracking down the Order, however, shows she can still prioritise and respond to the greater threat. Perhaps the fact that the casters are running low on juice, combined with Miko's unturnability, will be the edge Soon needs.

And Roy's body hasn't been trampled or zombified. I wonder if something will happen to it...

[Beittil]

Lol, she will just never get it :D

ps... Like your style of just saying "New comic" and then nothing else as to why it was slightly delayed, lol.

[Jarrad]

Grim... very grim. Obviously necessary for plot development, but not very cathartic from the point of view of someone desperately waiting for the next installment!

Miko is one grade-A, dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying fruitcake...

[dogmac]

Poor Roy!!!

I hope he gets resurrected before those vultures peck out his eyes :smalleek:

Miko back to her arrogant insane self, but she should, assuming she ever gets a sword, be some use in the throne room. Maybe she could smite someone and get the Gods zapping Redcloak or something.

[Nogard]

Wow was that ever worth waiting for!

I think my stock in MIKO might be paying off soon.

[Ashbless]

So it will be Miko who will defeat Xykon?

An interesting thought, but somehow I imagine she'll be doing fine thumping the bad guys until Belkar walks into the throne room as well, compounding her delusions as to whom the OOTS are working for. :smallfurious:

ANd of course Belkar will be wondering who to attack as well, the really bad guys, or his love/hate rival. :smallbiggrin:

[Stormwolf]

Funny. I saw the whole strip as a comment on certain posters on this message board who try to read a little something extra into every panel of every comic. Oh wait a minute.... did I just do that? Damnit :smallredface:

[Atheist_Cleric]

Miko, you so crazy....


Seriously, she's nuts. Totally bonkers, lights aren't on and there's a psycho home, etc.

This comic basically just made me hate Miko all over again. Idiocy, short-sighted arrogance and self-important pronuncement, and to top it all off, insulting and denouncing someone who died trying to protect her and her stupid city. If Xykon, Redcloak or hell even Soon kill Miko in the throne room, I will be happy.

[Damaris]

Aw, the last panel. *g*


"First, I give thanks to you for removing the irritating distractions and their endless blather from this prison.
I was getting nowhere trying to meditate around them anyway."
:smallbiggrin:

I love Miko so much. I hope she doesn’t get killed right away.


@ Dr'uun Unnh: Grinning Miko is creepy :smalleek:

[Ink]

Excellent, the psychotic paladin is out! And she managed to break out of jail without any tools, that's one strong psycho. My MIKO stock should be rising soon.

[lord_khaine]

well miko is pretty resourcefull when she has to get out from somewhere, and who knows, meeting the first member of the saphire guard might actualy knock a tiny spec of sense into her head?

and who think dying in battle against xykon will be enough to convince miko she was wrong about roy working with xykon?

[dish]

[sitting on edge of seat]
So, the throne room's quickly getting rather busy, isn't it?
[/edge of seat]
(still sitting though)

[Senex]

If I had any RDCL stocks, I'd start getting rid of them right now. With his repertoire of spells almost expended, and a high-level melee specialist heading his way, things don't look good for the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle.

[Mr Teufel]

Interesting comic. Well. Hardly a comic - no humour except possibly the far-reaching depths of Miko's megalomania - but a strip that gets us from 459 to 461.

I wonder if the delay was due to Rich trying to find some way to make this necessary plot point funny? It appears he gave up.

Can't win 'em all.

[Balathustrius]

I wonder if the delay was due to Rich trying to find some way to make this necessary plot point funny? It appears he gave up.

Can't win 'em all.

Rolls eyes.

Anyway, I am very interested to see where this goes, next. Soon, Xykon, and Miko in the same room together... the mind quails at the thought. :smallamused:

[battleburn]

Not a funny comic, but certainly a good comic.
The last frame really was grim, but the irony is staggering.
Makes you wonder what kind of punishment Miko was thinking of, if that death of Roy is escaping fate.

I wonder what will happen next, I don't want to make any predictions, but a fallen Miko and Soon in the same room could be very interesting.
'nuff said.

-Battleburn

[Pvednes]

She really needs to recognize that the gods have dumped her like a sack of mouldy potatoes and get on with her life.

[Freelance Henchman]

I'm not sure if I like where this is heading. In fact, I'm worried Miko in her extraordinarily looney state might even end up helping Xykon and attack Soon or something. (And the 12 gods help her if she does, she can't be *that* deluded, can she?! :smalleek: ).

[slb]

Interesting, this strip shows us that Xykon is actually following RedCloack's tactical recommendation.

Soon is clearly losing the battle if he's continuing not to follow his own advice to go for RedCloack first. Finaly he may share some of Miko state of mind in some ways :smallamused:

[Haruspex]

She's already killed Shojo for the flimsiest of reasons and soon after that attacked his heir with no reason at all. Either she comes to her senses, joins the bad guys, or dies. Her character is the only one in the whole series who I can live without. In fact I was enjoying OOTS until her deluded face showed up again. :smallconfused: :smallmad: :smallfurious: I always thought Wisdom was a fairly high priority stat for Monks and Paladins, of which Miko was both.

[RMS Oceanic]

Hey, I just noticed that Hinjo's Junk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0418.html) still appears to be docked in the harbour. Will it play a roll for the Order to get to Girard's gate?

[Ben7el]

She's already killed Shojo for the flimsiest of reasons.

I would say that lying to the Order he leads, rigging a trial, and talking to someone who gravely insulted her, refused to follow her commands when they were her prisoners, AND is in league with someone who wants to destroy the city, kill everyone in it and take the one thing she has sworn with her life to protect and enslave the world. Also, seeing a murderer who has taunted and antagonized you from the second you met him standing around free as a bird (when he is supposed to be in jail).

Pretty good reasons, they weren’t right, but I could easily see the logic in them, also, add to the emotional damage of having the person that was probably her father figure (she was only 13 when she was taken in to the Sapphire guard) betray her and the sudden shock of losing your paladin hood, she probably was very confused and saw everyone as an enemy when Hinjo tried to talk to her.

Miko is fairly imbalanced, but If you spent 10 years of your life sent out on missions far far away from the place you love(“My city….. My beautiful blue city) with only a horse to talk to and having to follow strange orders from a seemingly senile old man. You probably wouldn’t be perfectly balanced yourself.

[SteveMB]

Does Rich get royalties on the dictionary for Miko's picture next to the word "delusional"?

[Alfryd]

I would say that lying to the Order he leads, rigging a trial, and talking to someone who gravely insulted her, refused to follow her commands when they were her prisoners... Also, seeing a murderer who has taunted and antagonized you from the second you met him standing around free as a bird (when he is supposed to be in jail).
...add to the emotional damage of having the person that was probably her father figure (she was only 13 when she was taken in to the Sapphire guard) betray her and the sudden shock of losing your paladin hood, she probably was very confused and saw everyone as an enemy when Hinjo tried to talk to her.
Those might not be good reasons for Miko doing what she did, but I certainly wish her explicit rationalisations were equally comprehensible.

I mean, part of me wants to say it could just be random overreaction for humour's sake on Miko's part, but how do you tell? For all intents and purposes it seems she randomly overreacts 24/7.

[Complex]

I must say, I like Miko. For sure, the whole good-evil-alignment rules are the most stupid concept, a game ever has come up with. And the giant is playing very well with this, just a more refined kind of humour than the (also very enjoyable) rants referring directly to some rule or another.

Evil Redcloak really caring about his hobbos
Miko being "good" per definitionem
Thog whom you can imagine as just having the wrong friends. Too dumb to be evil for sure and only really caring about ice-cream and puppies.

[Ben7el]

Those might not be good reasons for Miko doing what she did, but I certainly wish her explicit rationalisations were equally comprehensible.

Is that a compliment? If so, thank you ^-^

[pendell]

Glad to see it finally showed up.

Am I the only one who is worried about Miko's imminent collision with Hinjo, that same evil halfling, and the rest of the OOTS in the throne room? She's unpredictable enough I have no idea what's going to happen.

In any case, that seems to be the second-to-last plot point we have to get out of the way before finally RESOLVING THIS THING. I realize the Giant was probably trying to build anticipation for the throne room by the multiple strip cutaway from Xykon in the throne room, but all it did in my case was make me drum my fingers on the table and think "any time now..."

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Vampire_Boy]

Miko? Redemption? *bursts out laughing*

[Anthea]

Well, Miko somehow reminded me of the guy who prayed every day to win at the lottery. Until he heard a voice saying: "Come on, give me a chance, and buy yourself a ticket!" :D

[Haruspex]

Fair enough that she was emotional, but a sword through the torso is not the correct answer or excusable. As I said before, her Wisdom should have been at least average as a Monk/Paladin and her training, calling, whatever as a Paladin should have granted her some sort of common sense. She didn't even trust her own deity-granted abilities to reveal if Shojo or Hinjo were really evil. What does she really believe in, I wonder?

[Ridureyu]

Miko: "Obviously, whatever I want to do is your will, because I'm doing it."


You know, when ever the counselor-guy at my church runs into a Miko-type, he usually tells the deacons/elders/pastor. That kind of person is almost always the first one to try to split the church.

[YohanLeafheart]

I kind of did a double-take when I saw panel #10.

Miko... smiling? Is this the first time?

I'm not saying that I find it bad or anything-

It's just that toothy grin is probably going to give me nightmares. :tongue:

To quote Addams Familly Values, although comparing Miko to wedsneday its not fair, wedsneday is much better, "You're smiling. Please don't do that, I'm scared"

I like the comic, not on humour value, but on plot development. Miko is still insane, and the giant did a good joke about classical fantasy games where almost everything is, in fact, a sign from the Gods, see LotR for example.

[Tadpole]

Soon, come on, you're falling for it! Darn it all, I want to twist Redcloak's smarty pants head off and smash it. I'm sick of him outsmarting all the good guys. Come on Team Not Evil, let's someone show some competence!

[Ben7el]

She didn't even trust her own deity-granted abilities to reveal if Shojo or Hinjo were really evil. What does she really believe in, I wonder?

Two words

"Undetectable Alignment"

:)

Also, she shouldn't have killed Shojo, not the best action, but people tend to ignore common sense when there really really pissed.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/Ben7el/ANGRYYY.jpg

And who would call that face anything but "Insane Rage".

[pendell]

Miko: "Obviously, whatever I want to do is your will, because I'm doing it."


You know, when ever the counselor-guy at my church runs into a Miko-type, he usually tells the deacons/elders/pastor. That kind of person is almost always the first one to try to splut the church.

What does "splut" mean, pray?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ridureyu]

Two words

"Undetectable Alignment"

:)

Also, she shouldn't have killed Shojo, not the best action, but people tend to ignore common sense when there really really pissed.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b35/Ben7el/ANGRYYY.jpg

And who would call that face anything but "Insane Rage".



I call that the beautiful, innocent, pure face of sweet, sweet lovely sinless Miko.

[Damaris]

Glad to see it finally showed up.

Am I the only one who is worried about Miko's imminent collision with Hinjo, that same evil halfling, and the rest of the OOTS in the throne room? She's unpredictable enough I have no idea what's going to happen.

Ow, that's true. I'd like to believe she'll concentrate on attacking the actual villains, but being Miko... and faced with Belkar...

[kierthos]

What I want to know is... who is the hooded ghost (Deathless... whatever... hey, what the heck is a Deathless? Was this explained somewhere)? I mean, it sure looks like Miko back when she wore the hood up...

Although considering that they are stick figures, that really doesn't mean much. I mean, Redcloak made three Xykon look-alikes with just a robe as a disguise. So I guess any hooded Azure City paladin would look the same.

Still, who is it? It's driving me mad!

[Tordek]

She's delusional at this point, and if the twelve gods themselves came down and told her to stop she would accuse them of being agents of evil. She needs to die, or be near-death, to come out of this.

[Ridureyu]

What does "splut" mean, pray?

Respectfully,

Brian P.



Split. SPLIT the church. Sorry.

[kierthos]

Split. SPLIT the church. Sorry.
I like splut the church better.

"What's the sound a church makes if it lands on a colossal ooze? Splut."

[Ladorak]

I hated Miko at first but since she started this major delusion thing I'm growing to like her more and more.

And I actually thought the comic was pretty funny...

[Ridureyu]

Yeah... see, I work in a church, I'm religious, and I want to murder Miko. With a piece of BROKEN GLASS.


YARGH!


But seriously, the way she's acting is actually very typical and realistic for a lot of people.

[Haruspex]

Huh, she does look insane in that shot. It's her lack of stability and self-serving interpretation of "signs" that makes her irritating. The hobgobs follow their supreme leader, and the Azurites defend themselves accordingly. Miko? Probably not even the Twelve know what she's going on about. Why couldn't her loss of paladinhood and defeat by Roy be a sign that she ought to just sit down?

It could be just a personal thing and not an objective critical analysis of Miko. Zealots who always excuse themselves for evil deeds just bug me.

[Estelindis]

Nice comic. It's a pity that time to reflect hasn't changed Miko's point of view regarding her fall, but it's hardly surprising. The panorama of Azure City aflame was arresting (one little ship still near the docks, wonder whose it is - looks like Hinjo's junk, but I thought that was supposed to sail), Xykon's overheard insult was very funny, and for some reason I'm glad Miko is joining the fight. Maybe Soon will set her straight, or maybe she won't even listen to him. Final panel with Roy was very sobering - not even sure if it was black comedy, or just black.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Is it possible that the 12 gods DID free miko and that she is following their will?

I mean, things look bad for AC right now, and even without her paladin powers, miko is at least the equal of belkar in sheer killing abilities. She may be enought o tip the scales, especially now that all the other paladins, save hinjo, are out of the battle.

It's possible the gods did want her to escape the prison, and that she is still serving their will. maybe they intend to use her to save AC in some way, and possibly even regain her paladinhood.

She might have to finally realize that the order isn't evil and that killing shojo was wrong. If she can do those things while aiding in the defense of AC maybe she can be saved.

So maybe her belief that her gods arranged her escape from the cell isn't wrong, guys.

Also, rich did call the issue "sign, sign..."

[LiteYear]

I don't know if Miko will ever come back around. I believe she's following her own beliefs, and will interpret any minuscule details as signs that support her, and dismiss or warp any contradictory evidence.

[Glaivemaster]

Hmm, I'm beginning to wonder how intelligent Miko actually is with regards to 'signs from the gods'. The fact that she is smiling, and that she is using the obviously flimsy excuse of "the will of the Gods" to justify her actions makes me think that, since she fell, she's starting to understand how to be selfish.

I don't think Miko really believes or trusts the gods any more. She just uses them as an excuse to justify her own actions, so that she can do whatever she wants to do.

And that one line: "I understand" As far as I can tell, that's when she really turns. She's realised that she has the power to do what she wants to do not what she should do

It seems to me (and no offence intended towards people who think she is an idiot) that people aren't giving Miko the credit she deserves. Of course, she might just be intensely stupid, but I prefer to believe that she now knows exactly what she's doing

Good work, Giant

[Toper]

Eventually she's going to decide that the Twelve Gods stripped her of her paladinhood precisely because they needed her to be able to break the paladin code.

[Magus]

The only way that the last panel could have been better is if the vultures were already partaking, but that's rather more gory than this comic gets (on-panel, that is).

I thought that the Giant did a bang-up job of showing Miko's thought processes. While I am glad that she is doing the right thing, and for the right reasons, she still retains her delusions concerning the Order and herself. I cannot decide if that makes her less dangerous or more dangerous. I hope that she gets a chance to meet Soon after the fighting ends. That encounter would definitely have an effect on her, whether it pushes her further down or helps her rise again, because it could very easily do either.

[Atheist_Cleric]

She could break the paladin code anytime, it'd just mean losing her powrs then rather than before. Im more interested in this: If the immunity to the fear that she might be wrong is a class feature, as Miko and Redcloak argued about a while back, now that she's no longer a paladin, does that mean that she'll be able to feel fear now? Maybe not just fear of death, or of things that are just scary, but fear that she might be wrong?

[Jaradcel]

Does Rich get royalties on the dictionary for Miko's picture next to the word "delusional"?

Amen to that!

--

I knew it though. I KNEW IT! There was no way in the hell of the 12 God's that Miko would NOT take anything that remotely looked like a sign as anything but "Oh yes, this is the divine favor of the Gods! I must now complete my holy mission!" *groans*

It's also further proof that Intelligence is clearly Miko's dump stat. =\ High wis, high cha, lousy int, restrictive alignment = Miko on a dime. *shakes head*

It does sound like Soon's getting riled up by Xykon in the throne room though... D'oh! (Though I still find the previous strip's ending of SMITE EVIL! to be pure goodness)

As to the rumor/belief/thought/?!?!? regarding Roy and disfigurement, how's an eye pecked out by a vulture sound? Roguish eyepatched Roy for the win? Cmon... no adventurer is ever going to win a fight unless he has a few "Ahhh this scar? It came when I was fightin' da lich king Zarkon..." type stories to tell later in life!

[BenjCano]

Miko back to her arrogant insane self, but she should, assuming she ever gets a sword, be some use in the throne room. Maybe she could smite someone and get the Gods zapping Redcloak or something.

Every sword belonging to the slaughtered Sapphire Guard is lying on the ground, waiting to be picked up.

[Ladorak]

It could be just a personal thing and not an objective critical analysis of Miko. Zealots who always excuse themselves for evil deeds just bug me.

But Miko is not a zealot, she is not real, she is a commentary on zealots. I knew a guy, he's in prison 'cos God told him to impersonate a doctor, who's desent into madness mirrors Miko's quite a lot, personally I love this questioning of good and evil viewpoints.

[Ladorak]

It's also further proof that Intelligence is clearly Miko's dump stat. =\ High wis, high cha, lousy int, restrictive alignment = Miko on a dime. *shakes head*

She's a monk paladin build... Int is her only possible dump stat

[blademaster42]

I sincerely believe that Miko is going to become a paladin again. If she survives this fight. Xykon's burned a lot of spells, but she's now a "fighter-without-bonus-feats". And why does everyone say "Xykon and Redcloak"? I have yet to see any evidence that Redcloak is there. It may be where he's headed, but he isn't there yet, or we would've heard him I think.

[Alfryd]

And that one line: "I understand" As far as I can tell, that's when she really turns. She's realised that she has the power to do what she wants to do not what she should do...
I had not considered that interpretation. Perhaps I have misjudged the implications of events here.

I thought that the Giant did a bang-up job of showing Miko's thought processes.
What thought-processes? "...if they wanted me to remain, they easily have the power to stop me."
As far as I can tell, she's not even investing much effort in rationalising her actions any more.
Eventually she's going to decide that the Twelve Gods stripped her of her paladinhood precisely because they needed her to be able to break the paladin code.
It's where I'm putting my money.

She's a monk paladin build... Int is her only possible dump stat...
Her planning ability and tactical expertise would indicate a high int, as does her investment in several cross-class skills: survival, knowledge (the planes,) and gather information. The PCs and NPCs in OOTS seem blessed with atypically high point buys.

[motub]

OK, now I hate her.

I haven't, up to now.

I didn't, until that last panel.

When I realized that, if she could see what I saw (Roy's fate), she would react with glee to the sight of Roy being buzzard food, given that it is in her opinion precisely "the fate he has so richly deserved since siding with that evil halfling."

This is all because he sided with Belkar? That's why she hates him and wants him to die painfully and "uncleanly" (or whatever the word is for when your body lies alone, forgotten, and unmourned to the extent that scavengers can prey on it)?

She would (probably) do a little happy dance, and praise her Gods at the sight-- which is bad enough, but she would exhibit what I can only call "this unholy glee" not even because she "knows" he burned the city, or because she "knows" he personally is responsible for this battle in which the effin' world might be destroyed (the saving of which, btw, is not her priority, but an unfortunate emergency distraction from her priority, which is making Roy and the OotS "pay"-- presumably for making her feel bad about herself).... but because he told her off in support of Belkar in #250 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0250.html)??

Good.... gravy.

Now, I've been publically humiliated by people I was attracted to on a couple of occasions, and I do know how bad that hurts. And it does hurt, bad. Real bad. But it's a long distance (in my mentality, which I am happy to confirm is apparently sane) from wanting those persons dead (which I don't, but I could see, I suppose), even dead by my hand (if we're going to stretch, let's stretch it as far as it will reach), to wanting them not only dead, but wanting them to die a humiliating, shamefully sad death.

Xykon is neither good, nor human, so you can see how he'd want that kind of thing (and we know that he does, having used such a strategy to kill the paladins). But a human? Who's supposed to be good, and Gods-guided? Much less one who's supposed to have spent most of her life serving an oath sworn to those gods (through those who were sworn to them, then on her own account)?

Oh no. Even my acceptance of/tolerance for her insanity doesn't go that far. She disgusts me, even more than Xykon did in #448.

But I will still find it in me to be better than she is, and hope for an redemptive epiphany for her, or a clean "removal" (death) that somehow does serve good, before she does any more harm in her brokenness. And I will be grateful that all that is good and human in me still shudders at that last panel, and would, even if it was Miko herself lying there.

[NeonRonin]

Yeah, I had a feeling we'd be seeing Miko busting out eventually, and it happened without so much as a hint of personal progress or self-recrimination. I swear, every time she says something about 'destiny' or being 'special' I just wanna beat her senseless with a bamboo sword.

I apologize to the Miko fans out there, but unless something major happens to shake her out of her delusions in the VERY near future, I don't see myself ever changing my opinion of her. She's starting to sound like someone who might start up a suicide cult or something- the talk of signs, the inflated ego, the unrepentant attitude regarding her actions. (:miko: "The will of the Twelve Gods is with us... so drink the Kool-Aid, my friends.")

Good strip, and necessary for advancing the plot... even if the final panel with Roy was a tad grisly.

Now if it isn't too much trouble, maybe Redcloak could cast a Fear spell on Miko the second she runs in. No more immunity to fear, or Charisma bonus to saves- I'm not sure what her base save is, but if she flubs it and has to deal with fear for the first time in... how long?... maybe that would be the true SIGN that she needs. And, if nothing else, an angry berating from Soon would be nice.

[Moral Wiz]

I sincerely believe that Miko is going to become a paladin again. If she survives this fight. Xykon's burned a lot of spells, but she's now a "fighter-without-bonus-feats". And why does everyone say "Xykon and Redcloak"? I have yet to see any evidence that Redcloak is there. It may be where he's headed, but he isn't there yet, or we would've heard him I think.

You did read the last strip, right?


And keudos to Giant. FYI the spanish Inqusition used logic similar to miko's

"If god has put suspicion of this person into our mind, then it must be justified"


Hang on, I think I've just worked out what's going to happen next strip (assuming we're staying with the throne room.) New thread made.

[Lavidor]

OK, not that I think this will happen, but I'm posting it anyway:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x84/AmnonLavidor/BGmiko.jpg

It was surprisingly easy to make. Anyway, nice job on the comic!

[Alfryd]

I call that the beautiful, innocent, pure face of sweet, sweet lovely sinless Miko.
Ain't she just! Awww!


...the saving of which, btw, is not her priority, but an unfortunate emergency distraction from her priority...
Except the fact that she deals with the Gate-related 'distraction' first by defintion indicates that IS her priority.

Incidentally, while the fact that Roy humiliated her in no small part accounts for her actions, Belkar does deserve death, and no information available to her could account for Xykon being alive unless the Order were working with him.
Miko beat the entire Order twice over (roughly speaking,) and couldn't take out Xykon. She couldn't even come close. The fact that Xykon met the Order can only imply that they came to some peaceable arrangement, or the former would have blasted the latter into Dungeon McNuggets.
So she does have some grounds for reasonable suspicion. In which case, taking out the order would be part of her effort to protect the Gates.
(Of course, if the Order wanted to betray the city, all Roy had to do was allow Miko kill Hinjo, but obviously she ain't thinking about that.)

[Doompuppy]

If the immunity to the fear that she might be wrong is a class feature, as Miko and Redcloak argued about a while back, now that she's no longer a paladin, does that mean that she'll be able to feel fear now? Maybe not just fear of death, or of things that are just scary, but fear that she might be wrong?

I believe she now has the capacity for that, yes. Only problem is ... the thought first has to occur to her. And she is so certain that she is the Chosen One that she obviously cannot be wrong, so she probably feels no need to fear.
Or perhaps she reads these signs precisely because of this new fear, not having had it since she became a paladin, she might be unable to cope with it any other way...

[Adeptus]

Brilliant strip!

I love how Miko is an example of an irrational zealot that seemed fairly normal as long as the cituation remained such that here fanatic's responses were appropriate.

Now her madness is clear for all to see. Miko didn't suddenly snap. She was like this all along.

[SteveMB]

(Of course, if the Order wanted to betray the city, all Roy had to do was allow Miko kill Hinjo, but obviously she ain't thinking about that.)

Of course, she believes that killing Hinjo was the right thing to do, ergo, Roy obstructing her attempt to do so is more proof that Roy is on the side of evil.

[Ladorak]

When I realized that, if she could see what I saw (Roy's fate), she would react with glee to the sight of Roy being buzzard food, given that it is in her opinion precisely "the fate he has so richly deserved since siding with that evil halfling."

You know if I saw my homeland burning, monsters running up and down the streets killing my people, my friends and loved ones (Ok, Miko might not have them), if I had lost everything I have ever valued and I thought it was all One man's fault I might be a little inclined to rejoice in his death.

[theGec]

The way Miko is behaving right now reminds me qite a bit of the Fallen Paladin entry in the description of the Shadowbane Inquisitor prestige class in the Complete Adventurer. It talks about how fallen Shadowbane Inquisitors get so wrapped up in their persuit of justice in the absolute, that they loose track of any sense of goodness they once possessed. For them, defending the law supersedes any of the acts of compassion that are generally associated with the mantle of a paladin.

In Miko's case, I'd say its a tad worse. Over the years of devotion to the 12 Gods, she managed to develop a superiority complex so strong, that now, she believes that anything that goes against her judgement is act of evil. She is above the law, because she didn't create them, and, furthermore, nothing can stop her from doing as she pleases, since obviously all of her action are ordained.

Let's just hope she doesn't pull an Aribeth...

[Thanatos 51-50]

Personally, I'm a fan of the macabe humor presented in the last panel.
Miko quite rightly lost her Paladinhood, reacting emotionally, and not using her WIS, despire whether or not it his ehr dump stat, shes ignoring it for sheer desire to pay back the Order for their (mostly imagined) slight.
She doesn't eben know that belakr is in Roy's employ, meaning Belkar sided with Roy, not vice-versa.

It took me a few times through to even notice the tiny little crack in the prison bars.

Shes activly hunting for excuses to do what she wants, ignoring all evidence to the contrary.

[teratorn]

Great comic, Miko looks terribly cute in beige and she's as awesome as always.

I found the vulture thing hilarious. A giant battle and Roy didn't make a single direct kill, spent most of the time feeding the birds.

[factotum]

Frankly, Miko is beginning to irritate me more than somewhat. You'd think losing her paladin powers would act as a clue-by-four upside the head, but it hasn't changed her at all--she's still the same self-centred son of a *bleep* she's always been. At this stage, I don't think she'd believe Roy was on the side of good if the Twelve Gods appeared in person and engraved "ROY IS GOOD, YOU MORON" onto the inside of her eyelids in letters of flame.

Please, please, will somebody put Miko out of our misery?

[synnerman]

Hate...Aribeth...so...much.

I think I played Neverwinter Nights twice just to clobber her twice.

Maybe that's why I hate Miko so much. She seems absolutely incapable of reason. She a frizzy yarnball of zeal and not much else.

[johnnyriot999]

I dont thinkt he last comic was particularly funny, though it was good.

Did anyone else notice that there is still one ship left in the harbor? :smallamused:

[Adeptus]

I found the vulture thing hilarious. A giant battle and Roy didn't make a single direct kill, spent most of the time feeding the birds.

This is indeed both tragic and humorous. Roy is the only member of the Order who should be most at home in a battlefield. He's got a Master of Battle Administrations degree and everything. (V, of course, proved that (s)he is quite at home in an enviroment where area effect spells can be used to their full extent.)

Pretty shocking (and funny) to see all the rest of them proving their worth on the battlefield while Roy overreaches and spends the battle as vulture feed.

[Etiainen]

Yaaay, about time the vultures are gathering :smallamused:

[Alfryd]

Of course, she believes that killing Hinjo was the right thing to do, ergo, Roy obstructing her attempt to do so is more proof that Roy is on the side of evil.
While this seems likely, we don't have 100% confirmation that Miko *still* thinks she was entitled to hack Hinjo into tiny pieces for having the temerity to arrest her. I presume this minute sliver of hope will be crushed with vigour in due order.

...and not using her WIS...
She's able to cast CLW, indicating a wis of 11+. This mystifies me almost as much as her ostensible charisma.


Hate...Aribeth...so...much.
I think I played Neverwinter Nights twice just to clobber her twice.
Aribeth and her ludicrous steel bustier may not have had much by of convincing character depth, but she was generally civil, gracious and forbearing for the first act. It was even possible to talk her around to reason during the boss-fight, if you had enough ranks in Pursuade. Or did I miss something?

[Krytha]

A lot of people think that Miko is going to be the factor that turns things against Xykon upstairs... I think she's going to act in a way that will hand the battle to him. I have no idea how, but you heard it here first, folks! And... wherever else you heard it from first because I havent read the entire thread...

[motub]

Eventually she's going to decide that the Twelve Gods stripped her of her paladinhood precisely because they needed her to be able to break the paladin code.

It's where I'm putting my money.
And it might even be the case, given that 1) Gods work in mysterious ways; 2) Gods have an overview of the full situation that a mere mortal being cannot have (so their "plan" might require action that falls outside the paladin code); and 3) ultimately, everything serves the good orderly direction of the universe, so of course she is as well, however inefficiently. After all, she is right, that if the Gods cared to prevent her escape, they certainly could have, so if they didn't, either it was what they wanted, or it doesn't matter whether she's free or not (irrelevant, which of course she does not believe she could possibly be, but she might be, or she might just be irrelevant at the moment, and playing her part to get into position to be "dealt with"-- whatever that means-- in the normal course of playing out your fate).

But even if she is being moved into position to break the paladin code in one specific instance (which has not yet occurred), she does not have "permission" to do evil, which she is .... hell-bent... on getting a chance at.

Killing Shojo was more unlawful than evil. Unlawful acts can be redeemed by law (going to jail, and repenting in prayer). So even if she was "unleashed" by that act, it still had the possibility, even the probability, of being temporary (administrative punishment, as it were). What she's after (slaughtering the OotS, or what's left of it-- or rather, taking whatever action she feels would redeem her sense of personal honor, which is most likely much more complex and far-reaching than simple slaughter, which I doubt would satisfy her) is much more likely to be flatly evil, which would be much harder to redeem (not least because it might well break her beyond repair as far as the service of good goes).

Thank goodness she was distracted to the "little problem" with the Gate-- thank goodness she could be distracted from her "mission" to assist at the Gate.

If she is "meant" to do something which is necessary, but falls outside the (admittedly restrictive) Paladin Code, that's where she's likely meant to do it, and hopefully it will also include a redemptive "sidebar" before she can do something that there's really no going back from.

[Dausuul]

Is it possible that the 12 gods DID free miko and that she is following their will?

I mean, things look bad for AC right now, and even without her paladin powers, miko is at least the equal of belkar in sheer killing abilities. She may be enought o tip the scales, especially now that all the other paladins, save hinjo, are out of the battle.

Yeah, Miko may well tip the scales. The question is, which way?


It's possible the gods did want her to escape the prison, and that she is still serving their will. maybe they intend to use her to save AC in some way, and possibly even regain her paladinhood.

She might have to finally realize that the order isn't evil and that killing shojo was wrong. If she can do those things while aiding in the defense of AC maybe she can be saved.

I very much doubt it. I really can't see Miko being so quickly or easily redeemed. And frankly, nuts as she is, I can't imagine what might bring her to her senses.


So maybe her belief that her gods arranged her escape from the cell isn't wrong, guys.

Also, rich did call the issue "sign, sign..."

"...Everywhere a sign." I think he's pointing out that Miko can twist any happenstance into a sign from the Twelve Gods that whatever she feels like doing is what they want her to do... as Roy so aptly observed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html):

"Honey, we're out of milk."
"Clearly, that means the gods want me to kill you! Slash! Slash! Slash!"


And it might even be the case, given that 1) Gods work in mysterious ways; 2) Gods have an overview of the full situation that a mere mortal being cannot have (so their "plan" might require action that falls outside the paladin code); and 3) ultimately, everything serves the good orderly direction of the universe, so of course she is as well, however inefficiently. After all, she is right, that if the Gods cared to prevent her escape, they certainly could have, so if they didn't, either it was what they wanted, or it doesn't matter whether she's free or not...

That logic doesn't hold up at all. If the Twelve Gods are willing and able to intervene directly in mortal affairs, why on earth did they let Xykon get so far in the first place? Surely they could have just broken loose a chunk of the ceiling in the throne room and dropped it on his head right before Redcloak got there.

D&D gods are not omnipotent and they don't generally take a direct hand in matters; that's what clerics and paladins are for. Even when Thor took a hand to bail Durkon out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html), he made a pretense of going through the control weather spell to do it. And he still got in trouble for it later (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html).


Killing Shojo was more unlawful than evil. Unlawful acts can be redeemed by law (going to jail, and repenting in prayer).

They also don't cause you to lose your paladinhood unless you commit enough of them to shift your alignment. Killing Shojo was an evil act. So say the Twelve Gods.


If she is "meant" to do something which is necessary, but falls outside the (admittedly restrictive) Paladin Code, that's where she's likely meant to do it, and hopefully it will also include a redemptive "sidebar" before she can do something that there's really no going back from.

Frankly, I'll be disappointed if that happens. Story-wise, Miko has not earned a cheap and easy redemption.

[Amon Star]

Here she comes to save the Day!

Or, in :miko:'s case, screw them royally. But her heart's in the right place, she's just not very bright. Bless. :smalltongue:

Anyway, it's good to see her back in action. It's also good to see she still has some of her priorities straight.

[Alfryd]

When I realized that, if she could see what I saw (Roy's fate), she would react with glee to the sight of Roy being buzzard food... because he told her off in support of Belkar in #250??
On the other hand, while Miko might take Roy's death as his due punishment at the hands of the Gods, she might... well... call it even after that.
Ha! I kill me.
I should point that strictly speaking, it was the courtroom debacle in 285 that really sealed her festering enmity. And strictly, she was correct- Belkar's ring of jumping sealed Roy's fate:

"But mark my words: This act of defiance has sealed your fate. You will suffer a great loss for choosing Evil over Good. This I swear. Holy justice will be served, in due time."

[Adeptus]

And it might even be the case, given that 1) Gods work in mysterious ways; 2) Gods have an overview of the full situation that a mere mortal being cannot have (so their "plan" might require action that falls outside the paladin code); and 3) ultimately, everything serves the good orderly direction of the universe

Uh... polytheistic gods are a very different thing from the christian/jewish/islamic vision of a single god that sees every sparrow fall.

Polytheistic gods don't see everything and aren't infallibly wise. They are much more like very powerful mortals. Miko's worldview is like that of an extreme monotheistic zealot. The god(s) see all, and anything they allow to happen must be their will.

[berrew]

<snip>
Also, rich did call the issue "sign, sign..."
I took it as a reference to the Tesla song, "Signs". From the chorus:

" Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Blocking up the scenery
Breaking up my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign"

The implications of the song are: 1) Don't let signs run your life. 2) Anything can be read as a sign.

[TRat]

In response to all the "Miko is crazy--what can it possibly take to knock some sense into her' comments, possibly seeing the Sapphire Guard resurrected and Soon and the hooded mystery paladin might do it. To take the Christian analogy, it's a bit like seeing the Pope. Whatever he's doing must be the will of God.

So maybe in the following encounter (once she helps kick Xykon's arse--as the plot seems to dictate she will), she will see the truth of the matter.

[Fighteer]

What seems likely to me is that we are headed for a climactic confrontation in the throne room when all interested parties arrive more or less simultaneously.

Redcloak and Xykon have expended a great deal of resources fighting the battle itself as well as Soon and his retinue of Deathless. This would ordinarily make them easy prey for either the full-strength OotS or Miko. But let's imagine the situation: The OotS overcome the hobgoblin henchmen and burst into the throne room just in time to see Xykon and Redcloak about to overcome the last of Soon's minions. They are about to charge into the fray when Miko shows up and sees all of the parties together. In her delusional state, it's now confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were all working together, and so she immediately attacks the OotS again, giving Xykon and Redcloak time to finish off Soon.

[Adeptus]

And it might even be the case, given that 1) Gods work in mysterious ways; 2) Gods have an overview of the full situation that a mere mortal being cannot have (so their "plan" might require action that falls outside the paladin code); and 3) ultimately, everything serves the good orderly direction of the universe

Uh... polytheistic gods are a very different thing from the christian/jewish/islamic vision of a single god that sees every sparrow fall.

Polytheistic gods don't see everything and aren't infallibly wise. They are much more like very powerful mortals. Miko's worldview is like that of an extreme monotheistic zealot. The god(s) see all, and anything they allow to happen must be their will.

[spectheintro]

Killing Shojo was more unlawful than evil.

. . .

What? Since when is murder more unlawful than evil?

[Thormag]

As soon Soon sees a fallen paladin entering the room his reaction won't be "Great, reinforcements!". I mean, he doesn't know who Miko is, so my money is on Soon beating some Miko's fallen ass soon.

Miko might as well attack anybody in the room, from Xykon to Soon, my I think she will be very confused as soon as she enters the room (if the Order is in there first).

:miko: Wait... isn't the Order working for Xykon? ... What does it means? ... <closes her eyes> Yes clearly this means eveyone in this room is evil and must be punished

I mean, she would see Soon and the other matyrs as ghost, not deathless.

C'mon people, let's think like Miko.

[Loki_d20]

Hmmm...

A fallen and definitely insane paladin might make a great repository for the snarl, continuing her role as an enemy to both Xykon and the Order of the Stick

[Thormag]

Redcloak and Xykon have expended a great deal of resources fighting the battle itself as well as Soon and his retinue of Deathless. This would ordinarily make them easy prey for either the full-strength OotS or Miko. But let's imagine the situation: The OotS overcome the hobgoblin henchmen and burst into the throne room just in time to see Xykon and Redcloak about to overcome the last of Soon's minions. They are about to charge into the fray when Miko shows up and sees all of the parties together. In her delusional state, it's now confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were all working together, and so she immediately attacks the OotS again, giving Xykon and Redcloak time to finish off Soon.

She might as well attack anybody, including Soon :miko: He's a ghost controlled by Xykon, I must purge him!. The fact that Soon is a respected paladin, does not mean Miko will help him. Why? Because if Soon attacks Miko for some (fallen) reason, Miko will automaticaly think he is with Xykon and wants to destroy the gate EVEN if he was battling Xykon when she entered the room. In her world, everyone against her is against the gods.

[motub]

"...Everywhere a sign." I think he's pointing out that Miko can twist any happenstance into a sign from the Twelve Gods that whatever she feels like doing is what they want her to do
And of course, there lies the rub-- signs sometimes are signs, but signs only point a direction (get out of the prison, now-- the way is open); she's convinced that she knows where the signs are pointing (rather than looking to see what is available to do to serve, now that she's free), and what they mean (authorization to do what she wants, specifically vengeance against the OotS). It's the "drawing the conclusion" part that really gets her into trouble, as "drawing your own conclusions" is not really the point of being "led by the gods".

True, the Gods don't usually intervene directly, but paladins themselves are a conduit for direct intervention in mortal affairs, as both an example to ordinary people and as a tool for "special ops".

But they are supposed to be subservient to the Gods' will, and they are supposed to be empty of personal desire (greed/desire for money, fear of personal harm, pride/desire for fame to some extent, anger to some extent, and sexual desire to some extent), so that they can "hear" that will.

But Miko is far from an empty vessel, and far from subservient. And that's a problem, whether she's a paladin or just a "fighter without bonus feats", if she's trying to tread the line of Lawful (subservient to law) Good (subservient to the Gods)-- or even just Good, since she's broken the Law already, twice (murder, and resisting arrest).

She's already well-set in Chaotic, but can she stay Good? Long enough to do her "job", if the signs are in any way valid? That is really the question.

[malakim2099]

Oh, Miko... you're still a delusional psychotic twit that gives a bad name to paladins everywhere. Glad to see some things don't change.

Though I'm hoping V hightailed it out of the city to find Roy's body and keep it relatively safe (what else could he do at this point, anyway).

My thoughts on the upcoming confrontation...

Miko bursts in, sees everything... and kills O'Chul because she thinks he's about to destroy the gate. OBVIOUSLY he's controlled by the lich! And then that gives Soon the last ghost-martyr he needs to outlast or put a serious dent in Xykon and Redcloak. Either that or she destroys the gate herself as she realizes that Soon is "corrupt" because he doesn't recognize how she's the True Rep of the Gods blah blah blah.

Either way, redemption not happening. Though, now I CAN see her eventually working with the Linear Guild. Even though she rebuffed Sabine's advances (and verified Sabine's love of rough stuff, I guess!), I think she could easily go "Well, the Twelve Gods want the OOTS punished, and these people hate the OOTS, so I must work with them!"

[Lumenadducere]

Netherwood summed up my thoughts pretty well on the first page.

I really don't see how anyone can like Miko at this point. I used to like her and hope for her redemption, but she has officially become my least-favorite character with this strip.

[thestor]

"I take the fact that I am leaving prison as proof that the gods wnat me to escape", well Miko, there might even be truth to this, but have you ever wondered for a moment WHICH gods it might be? <cackles insanely in a particulary vicious and twisted hole in hell>

On another note, doesn't anyone find it disturbing that quite possibly, Soon will get MIKO'S (!) version of events so far? What we saw of him after the defeat of Snarl could bode badly for his reasoning capabilities, I wonder if he may actually fall down on Miko's level.

[motub]

. . .

What? Since when is murder more unlawful than evil?

Insofar as Shojo had admitted in Miko's hearing to criminal behavior he had engaged in (fraud and abuse of fiduciary duty, at the very least) of unknown extent, and in which he was still engaging at the moment of his "capture", he was not an innocent who was murdered (as in he was just sitting there, minding his own business, and she busted in and slaughtered him for no reason, or for some kind of personal gain).

What Miko did was "take him down with deadly force" which was of course excessive and unlawful under the circumstances. But as a confessed criminal, she did not do evil by confronting him and removing him from his position (that's her job). She broke the law by ignoring due process of law and killing him rather than arresting him, but the treatment of alleged/confessed criminals are not necessarily subject to the same rules for good and evil as treatment of the average law-abiding citizen.


They also don't cause you to lose your paladinhood unless you commit enough of them to shift your alignment. Killing Shojo was an evil act. So say the Twelve Gods.
The Lawful Axis counts as well-- it is possible that she committed a Chaotic act rather than an evil act, pushing her to Chaotic.... something (could, at a stretch, still be Chaotic Good, since she intends to do good, even if her actual acts fall short), which would also knock her out of the Paladin's required alignment .

You wouldn't want your shining example of upholding the Law to be seen to be breaking it without repercussions, would you?

[Malik]

great comic as always, i see miko is still deluded which is good.

[Tubbykiller]

I think Miko will grab the sapphire and escape while the others are fighting, the order of the stick will get out of town underground und regroup by raising roy (somehow).

[Dausuul]

True, the Gods don't usually intervene directly, but paladins themselves are a conduit for direct intervention in mortal affairs, as both an example to ordinary people and as a tool for "special ops".

...and Miko isn't a paladin any more, so she's no longer an instrument of the Twelve Gods and can't reasonably expect direct guidance.


But Miko is far from an empty vessel, and far from subservient. And that's a problem, whether she's a paladin or just a "fighter without bonus feats", if she's trying to tread the line of Lawful (subservient to law) Good (subservient to the Gods)-- or even just Good, since she's broken the Law already, twice (murder, and resisting arrest).

Alignment in D&D has nothing to do with subservience to the gods. Two characters can be subservient to the same god, yet one is Good while the other is Evil (typically with Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, or True Neutral deities). It's the actions you take and the reasons you take them that determine your alignment.


She's already well-set in Chaotic, but can she stay Good? Long enough to do her "job", if the signs are in any way valid? That is really the question.

Stay Good? Miko isn't Good any more. Good is defined by respect for life and willingness to sacrifice to help others; Evil is defined by callous disregard for life and willingness to hurt others to satisfy your own desires. While Miko has not completely abandoned the principles of Good, she's also demonstrated a willingness to commit Evil; she has little regard for life at this point, and she's quite ready to hurt anyone who makes her upset, even though she still feels the need to come up with twisted justifications for her actions. Look at what she did to Hinjo.

She only ever barely managed to adhere to the letter of Lawful Good in the first place. She's Neutral now and only wants a good hard shove to tip her into Evil.

[DrivinAllNight]

Funny. I saw the whole strip as a comment on certain posters on this message board who try to read a little something extra into every panel of every comic. Oh wait a minute.... did I just do that? Damnit :smallredface:
That wasn't in a spoiler, but I thought maybe it should be, so here's my take,
I totally agree, plus as a jab against those who went crazy over it being a little delayed. Of course, I could be wrong in this. Oh and, I saw it as a great plot development for crazy :miko:, and yes her lights are on up there, but they're on so bright they blind her to the sanity.
The 'Tick' had a great quote about sanity being a One Trick Pony, and so this must mean Miko has many many tricks. G'Day All. :smallsmile:

[SteveMB]

...and Miko isn't a paladin any more, so she's no longer an instrument of the Twelve Gods and can't reasonably expect direct guidance.

I don't think that reasonableness carries much weight in Miko's current thought processes.

[motub]

.
Alignment in D&D has nothing to do with subservience to the gods. Two characters can be subservient to the same god, yet one is Good while the other is Evil (typically with Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, or True Neutral deities). It's the actions you take and the reasons you take them that determine your alignment.
And so why are there specifically Paladins, or clerics that are dedicated to specific gods? Why are there even gods?

Obviously there must be some difference between Lawful Good Paladin Miko and Lawful Good Fighter Roy that supercedes simple alignment issues.

Those specific oaths must have some relevance, or why else do they exist?

[Aerysil]

For someone who so intently prays to the gods, she implies their will an awful lot by what's in front of her. Not good. Wonder what would have happened if she saw a pizza instead.

Only one window left! Who will break it?

Poor Roy *snif*.

And glad you're not MIA Rich, I was understandably curious and a little concerned.

[jindra34]

And so why are there specifically Paladins, or clerics that are dedicated to specific gods? Why are there even gods?

Obviously there must be some difference between Lawful Good Paladin Miko and Lawful Good Fighter Roy that supercedes simple alignment issues.

Those specific oaths must have some relevance, or why else do they exist?

Miko was more lawful than good and vise-versa for ROy.
Gods exist because DnD wants to reflect the world of mythos.

[JT]

Hey, I just noticed that Hinjo's Junk (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0418.html) still appears to be docked in the harbour.

You're right. Looks like no one wanted to climb up on Hinjo's junk.

[Loyal2NES]

Y'know, I'm just waiting for Miko to rev up some kickin' blue psi-energy blades and start mauling things.

"My life for Azure!"

[Megalomaniac2]

Wow, Miko's so far off the deep end she can't see where she jumped from. Fortunately, she's headed for the same room Soon Kim's in (Guess we know how that last window's going to be broken). If anyone can drive some sense into Miko, it'll be the founder of the Sapphire Guard.

Hopefully the 'package' discussed in the Hinjo's junk strip wasn't just a throwaway joke and will somehow give hope for the city, cause damn that thing's burning.

[Dausuul]

And so why are there specifically Paladins, or clerics that are dedicated to specific gods?

Because the gods need people to act as their instruments in the material plane, and naturally they prefer people who share their general outlook on things.

As far as paladins go, alignment is a real, tangible force in D&D, with real, concrete effects. Paladin abilities require, among other things, that the paladin not be tainted by the force that is Evil.


Why are there even gods?

Um... because there are? Why is there a New York City?


Obviously there must be some difference between Lawful Good Paladin Miko and Lawful Good Fighter Roy that supercedes simple alignment issues.

Sure. Lawful Good Paladin Miko can lay on hands, Lawful Good Roy can't, because he's a fighter and she's a paladin.

If subservience to gods were required for Good alignment, then Roy couldn't be Good at all, since I don't see him serving any deities.


Those specific oaths must have some relevance, or why else do they exist?

They establish a connection between the god and the mortal servant, and they lay out the rules the god expects the servant to follow. As I said, gods want their servants to share the same general outlook, so their rules often mandate adhering to particular alignments; but the alignment definition is the source of the gods' rules, not the other way around.

[Grey Watcher]

You know, when I first read it, I didn't notice the crack in the bars (until Miko started wailing on it), I was thinking maybe, JUST MAYBE the Gods' silence might finally be getting through to her, but nope. Miko once again demostrates that she maxed out her ranks in Jump to Conclusions.

Of course, maybe there is hope. She did, after all, correctly work out the identity of the intruder in the throne room and determine that that was a more important threat than her petty grudge against Roy. Then again, every time someone says there's hope for her, she just seems to get worse....


2. Roy is going to be partially eaten by the vultures so when/if he is raised they have to use some special spell.

I was already thinking that the cost of raising/resurrecting/whatever Roy will set the Order back enough that Haley's finally going to be forced to spill the beans about her father. Side-quest, ahoy!

[DrivinAllNight]

<snip>

....It's the actions you take and the reasons you take them that determine your alignment.

Well, she may be doing things that are bad, but according to her own VERY twisted logic, she is doing the will of her 12 gods. So her actions can be bad, just like killing the Bandit leader dad, but her intentions were for a greater good (debatably there, but at least by her standards they were).


Stay Good? Miko isn't Good any more. Good is defined by respect for life and willingness to sacrifice to help others; Evil is defined by callous disregard for life and willingness to hurt others to satisfy your own desires. While Miko has not completely abandoned the principles of Good, she's also demonstrated a willingness to commit Evil; she has little regard for life at this point, and she's quite ready to hurt anyone who makes her upset, even though she still feels the need to come up with twisted justifications for her actions. Look at what she did to Hinjo.

She believed Hinjo was in league with the OotS in an evil plot, so he deserved no special accord from her. And she may have little regard for life, but when she gets to the thrown room, she is likely to follow her current path, and that is protect the gate, even if she isn't wearing blue anymore. Why? Because she still thinks she has a duty, even if the 12 gods have taken away her special abilities. Although the stick still seems to be stuck in her:smallsmile:


She only ever barely managed to adhere to the letter of Lawful Good in the first place. She's Neutral now and only wants a good hard shove to tip her into Evil.

I completely agree on the barely Lawful good part, but I personally can't see her going totally blackguard, I can see her being lost in a spiritual and physical sense, but not Blackguard.

[jindra34]

You know, when I first read it, I didn't notice the crack in the bars (until Miko started wailing on it), I was thinking maybe, JUST MAYBE the Gods' silence might finally be getting through to her, but nope. Miko once again demostrates that she maxed out her ranks in Jump to Conclusions.


I really find that skill funny...

[wootdavid]

:smallsmile:
It's good to see Miko again, she's my favourite antagonist when she isn't cutting old people in half.

I don't know why people are saying this comic isn't funny. The last frame made me laugh quite a bit. Then again Roy's always been my least favourite of the important characters.

The irony between the last two frames was also brilliant.

Oh and I'm pretty sure if someone hit me over the head with a sheet of lead, set me on fire and stabbed me a bunch of times I'd wouldn't really like his friends either.

I can see an exchange between OOTS and Miko near or in the throne room involving Hayley or Hinjo yelling at her about Roy's sacrifice when she says he deserved it.

[teratorn]

«My city... My beautiful blue city...»

Not so blue anymore. There's orange everywhere.

[factotum]

I think Miko will grab the sapphire and escape while the others are fighting

The sapphire can't be moved, because it is just sealing the Azure City rift. If she grabs it and runs then it would have pretty much the same effect as destroying the sapphire, as O-Chul was trying to do when Xykon paralysed him.

[Frozen_Northman]

:miko: Die, Lich!

:xykon: Um... Follow the bouncing ball with Symbol of Insanity on it?

:miko: That trick won't work on me. I'm already crazy!

[Gilligan]

Oh boy this comic didn't make me like Miko any better. She's just digging that hole deeper and deeper for herself. And the last panel has definitly been one of the most powerful ones in a while. It really is a good comic.

[Adeptus]

The sapphire can't be moved, because it is just sealing the Azure City rift. If she grabs it and runs then it would have pretty much the same effect as destroying the sapphire, as O-Chul was trying to do when Xykon paralysed him.

I think it has been said (in the comic) that moving the gem would be risky. That's not the same as saying it would outright open the gate.

[Badgercloak]

Miko's delusions of being a divine instrument are going to be crushed when she goes into the throne room, cause Soon is gonna open a can divine ghost martyr wupp'n of her fallen-from-grace-self-inflatuated-fighter-without-the-bonus-feats-twisted-logic-holier-than-thou-palidan-wanna-be head!!

After that we'll see a whole new dimension of crazed delusion painted in colours that only the insane can imagine. Can you say "Blackgaurd that thinks their a good guy?"

[Dausuul]

Well, she may be doing things that are bad, but according to her own VERY twisted logic, she is doing the will of her 12 gods. So her actions can be bad, just like killing the Bandit leader dad, but her intentions were for a greater good (debatably there, but at least by her standards they were).

I see the argument "She thinks it's for a greater good" a lot in justifying why Miko is still Good. My answer is that you have to look at her real reasons for doing what she does, not the convoluted excuses she makes to herself.

As Roy rather astutely points out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html), Miko ignores all possibilities in order to arrive at a preconceived conclusion that happens to support her existing emotional state. She's not a person who's genuinely trying to do the right thing and just making horrible mistakes. She's doing whatever she damn well wants to do, and twisting the facts around in her head until she can justify doing it.

[jindra34]

Miko's delusions of being a divine instrument are going to be crushed when she goes into the throne room, cause Soon is gonna open a can divine ghost martyr wupp'n of her fallen-from-grace-self-inflatuated-fighter-without-the-bonus-feats-twisted-logic-holier-than-thou-palidan-wanna-be head!!

After that we'll see a whole new dimension of crazed delusion painted in colours that only the insane can imagine. Can you say "Blackgaurd that thinks their a good guy?"

As easily as sucubus paladin...

[darkgolem]

I am interested when the innocent, not so bright, overly prideful former paladin runs into the room to fight the brilliant, charismatic priest, and extermely charismatic lich and the room full of (to her eyes) apparent ghosts.. all members of the order who (in her eyes) betrayed her.

[Kanthalion]

It may be treading just a leetle bit close to discussion of real world religion but, I have known many Mikos in my life, especially in my time at Seminary.

[factotum]

I think it has been said (in the comic) that moving the gem would be risky. That's not the same as saying it would outright open the gate.

Well, in comic 411 Hinjo says that moving the gem would risk opening the rift (at least we assume we was going to say rift, he got cut off by Belkar) in response to Roy asking why they didn't just move the gem out of the city to lure Xykon away. If it was too dangerous that they couldn't take the chance, even WITH an army of thirty thousand hobgoblins approaching, I can't see it ending well if Miko moves it.

[teratorn]

I was already thinking that the cost of raising/resurrecting/whatever Roy will set the Order back enough that Haley's finally going to be forced to spill the beans about her father. Side-quest, ahoy!

Or things can get even worse:

The LG associates with the warlord who holds Haley's father and they convince Haley to betray the order. Then Haley would join Miko and both of them would look for redemption as the Red & Beige team.

Ok, my storytelling skills suck.

[Ebon_Drake]

:miko: Die, Lich!

:xykon: Um... Follow the bouncing ball with Symbol of Insanity on it?

:miko: That trick won't work on me. I'm already crazy!

:biggrin: That's both hilarious and true.

[Zanaril]

You know what would really be funny...


If it turns out that Miko's been right all along and the gods ARE giving her signs. You can imagine Miko being confused as to why people are suprised she was right.

I mean, it's obvious the Gods are on her side, and everyone else was insane to even consider otherwise. /sarcasm

[DrivinAllNight]

I see the argument "She thinks it's for a greater good" a lot in justifying why Miko is still Good. My answer is that you have to look at her real reasons for doing what she does, not the convoluted excuses she makes to herself.

As Roy rather astutely points out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html), Miko ignores all possibilities in order to arrive at a preconceived conclusion that happens to support her existing emotional state. She's not a person who's genuinely trying to do the right thing and just making horrible mistakes. She's doing whatever she damn well wants to do, and twisting the facts around in her head until she can justify doing it.
Even when she was a Paladin I had a hard time seeing her actions as wholly good, as in the Bandit Dad, she could have just knocked him out and left, it was his daughter who was the true bad one, and miko killed him in one swipe, she could have done something less evilly inclined.
I try to see the real reasons she does something, but I also try to see it from her side as well. After all, doesn't she genuinely want to do what's right? Even if her horrible mistake is not seeing the error of her ways.
I'm not saying she is a good person anymore, but she hasn't consciously done what she considers to be an evil act. Part of being truly evil is knowingly going against that which is good, otherwise she seems just highly misguided.
And her conclusions are based on an absolute reasoning of the information she has at the time, to her there is no gray area, only good or evil.
In short, your right, and I for some reason see things from too many angles, a curse of being an overanalyzer of things ::curses ranks in other people's perspectives::

[wartburg]

It drives me crazy the way Rich writes Miko's character. He develops an incredible sense of frustration on the part of the reader. How a silly stick figure comic can make you feel that way, I'll never know...well done rich.

[HotBlackDeisato]

I took it as a reference to the Tesla song, "Signs". From the chorus:

" Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Blocking up the scenery
Breaking up my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign"

The implications of the song are: 1) Don't let signs run your life. 2) Anything can be read as a sign.

It's not a Tesla song.

Oh, sure, Tesla covered it - but it's not a Tesla song.

/showingmyage

[nocker]

What seems likely to me is that we are headed for a climactic confrontation in the throne room when all interested parties arrive more or less simultaneously.

Redcloak and Xykon have expended a great deal of resources fighting the battle itself as well as Soon and his retinue of Deathless. This would ordinarily make them easy prey for either the full-strength OotS or Miko. But let's imagine the situation: The OotS overcome the hobgoblin henchmen and burst into the throne room just in time to see Xykon and Redcloak about to overcome the last of Soon's minions. They are about to charge into the fray when Miko shows up and sees all of the parties together. In her delusional state, it's now confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were all working together, and so she immediately attacks the OotS again, giving Xykon and Redcloak time to finish off Soon.

This is so wrong that must be right. I think that whatever happens will be much like this.

Even more fun points if Xykon can be bothered to bluff Miko into doing his job for him:

*OotS enters the throne room as Xykon and RC are finishing up the Sapphire Guard.*
*Miko enters soon after.*
Miko: By the twelve gods! I knew you were working together! But even you, Shinjo!
Xykon: Wait... what?
RC: Sir, she somehow believes we're allied to them.
Xykon: Oh. So, my, ahem, lackeys. Finish this beige nuisance while I perform my villainy here, wink wink.
Halley: Hey, you just said the words wink wink! Do you really expect that she -
Miko: OotS! Now you die! *charges*

[Freelance Henchman]

Miko once again demostrates that she maxed out her ranks in Jump to Conclusions.

Is that a Wisdom or an Intelligence check?

[Eriol]

Am I the only one that was reminded strongly of Delenn's statement when Miko said:

My beautiful blue city...
and I thought of the quote from Babylon 5: (quote from B5 Quote Database (http://www.cs.tut.fi/cgi-bin/nph-run/albert/quotefind.cgi?ie=beautiful+city))

I think of my beautiful city in flames, Lennier. The streets where I walked, the temples, the great crystal spires .. that sighed music whenever the wind touched them. I think of it, and I cry, Lennier.
Not EXACTLY the same of course, and it doesn't even need to be a factor in writing (anybody would say similar words when looking over a burning hometown/city), but considering The Giant's connection to that series (his name is from it), it was something that popped into my head immediately as a fellow fan.


But regardless, an interesting strip. I'm pretty disappointed in Miko. She has shown herself capable of evaluating things PAINFULLY logically at times, and then at other times she only sees what she wants to see. Very disappointing to me.

[jindra34]

Is that a Wisdom or an Intelligence check?
Inverse wisdom check i believe...

[wootdavid]

Is that a Wisdom or an Intelligence check?

It's a negative intelligence check. It fails if your intelligence modifier is too high.

Edit: Ninja'd muchly.

[Eriol]

Is that a Wisdom or an Intelligence check?
Charisma. The more forceful your personality, the less likely you are to be persuaded I'd say.


(CHA in D&D is force of personality, not ability to be liked by others)

[Omega]

All I have to say is: Why in all of the Nine Hells is she not dead, yet?!?

[Renegade Paladin]

Well it's slim, but I see hope for Miko yet. If she finds out that Roy died fighting Xykon while trying to save the city, it might -- note might -- be enough to turn her around.

[Lloyd]

I hope that something will knock some humility into her and the megalomania out soon

Here's to hoping that something's name is :xykon:.

[the_tick_rules]

i'm predicting miko shows up and helps fight off xykon and redcloak, and then or during the battle the OOTS shows up and who knows then.

[Freelance Henchman]

Charisma. The more forceful your personality, the less likely you are to be persuaded I'd say.


(CHA in D&D is force of personality, not ability to be liked by others)

Hm... I'm guessing Miko's charisma is massive then (from the game mechanics alone due to Divine Grace and Smite Evil and all the other stuff it influences for Paladins). Either that or Miko has been rolling natural 20s on each and every one of those checks :smallcool:

[krai]

I think many of you have missed one of the main issues: can a fallen-paladin defeat a tiny firebreathing avatar of death?
:belkar:

[Lukahatt]

Heh. The funny thing (well.... not exactly "funny", but... ) is that the discussion about "Miko is clearly good just misguided!!" against "she is evil! A clearly demonic bitch!" is quite similar to "Belkar is just Neutral, people"...

Funny would be if, after doing something very very stupid, Soon rewards her with a nice Smite Evil - a functional one.

(well, again... Unholy Blight also became the source of several discussions......)

[Curunir]

I think many of you have missed one of the main issues: can a fallen-paladin defeat a tiny firebreathing avatar of death?
:belkar:

She can do it in the city. Belkar can't do fireballs every round and he still wears the MoJ.
And if Miko and Belkar start fighting in the throne room, then they are both idiots. (so yes, they'll probably do it.)

[durrem]

Reading a Miko comic is like being forced to watch Titanic by your significant other. You know exactly what is going to happen (Miko repentant? lol) and it is painful to watch, but you have to watch it anyway...

[DreadArchon]

Funny would be if, after doing something very very stupid, Soon rewards her with a nice Smite Evil - a functional one.
That would certainly answer some things.

[berrew]

It's not a Tesla song.

Oh, sure, Tesla covered it - but it's not a Tesla song.

/showingmyage
<derail>Eh - I had no clue who did it, just googled it. When I first heard the song, I wasn't particularly interested in band names. But I see that Tesla is a newish band (I haven't listened to rock in about 10 years :p).I just assumed that that was the name of a one-hit wonder band that made it. I see that the version I know was by a different one-hit wonder band, "Five Man Electric Band" :).</derail>

[Lord Zentei]

Well it's slim, but I see hope for Miko yet. If she finds out that Roy died fighting Xykon while trying to save the city, it might -- note might -- be enough to turn her around.

First rule of storytelling: don't redeem/kill off your antagonists too quickly or you won't have a story anymore. :smallwink:

(Of course, there are other antagonists who can fill in the breach, but still...)

There are still two gates and several books to go. It ain't over 'till its over.

[Baalzebub]

Ok. Three Facts:

1. Miko has become a crazy "the gods can hear me" bitch.

2. Best Line? :xykon: Come on, you sissy, is that the best you can do? Your Ma hits harder than that - and can grow better facial hair! GNNNH!

3. Last panel was pretty grim. :smallfrown:

[Zhrec]

I want Miko to suffer, maybe humiliated by RC or Belkar. Yet the best thing would be if Soon will use his 'smite evil' and it would work %). By some reason I just hate her.


P.S. Give back Roy!!!

[fruityjanitor]

I'm not a Miko fan or anything, but I can't see why everyone is getting all angry at Miko over this strip...

The way things are looking, there are two possible outcomes of the upcoming fight:

1. Miko helps Soon keep the gate out of Xykon and Redcloak's hands

and/or

2. Miko gets killed

It seems to me like most of the Miko haters should be happy at both of these possibilities.

Of course, if the OOTS gets there before or around the same time as Miko, she could (and probably will) cause more harm than good. Hmmm.....

I'm excited to see what happens next!
*Hopes that the next strip isn't showing Roy in the afterlife or something like that*

[Frozen_Northman]

I'm not a Miko fan or anything, but I can't see why everyone is getting all angry at Miko over this strip...

For me, it's the last two panels of the strip that really get me frustrated at Miko. They dramatically highlight her arrogance and ignorance. It's the apparent attitude of, "I am delayed from pursuing righteous vengeance against Roy Greenhilt. Therefore, he clearly must have escaped his rightful punishment until another day." Subsequently contrasted with dead, forgotten, abandoned Roy.

Put another way, it is the spectacular magnitude of Miko's apparent belief that she is the center of the universe that galls me.

[happyturtle]

You know what the best part about this comic is? I have no idea what's going to happen when she reaches the throne room and comes face to face with Soon. And I can't wait to find out!

[Blood]

And, Miko is back. I'm so excited, now, because she's the most unpredictable in a comic full of unpredictable ... ness! :smallcool:

[Firenze]

Since Belkars Prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet and isn't likely going to be fulfilled in one of the next strips due to the mark, I'm guessing Miko will live another day ;)

and one more thing: Since Xykon is going to be near Giraad's Gate next, I'm not sure whats going to happen with Azure City...

[Willahad]

It's odd that there are tons and tons of dead people in the battle, but the vulters are picking on roy. he must taste good

[Stormwolf]

2. Best Line? :xykon: Come on, you sissy, is that the best you can do? Your Ma hits harder than that - and can grow better facial hair! GNNNH!

Xykon shoulda saved that line for Durkon :smallbiggrin:

[Adeptus]

Since Belkars Prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet and isn't likely going to be fulfilled in one of the next strips due to the mark, I'm guessing Miko will live another day ;)


Belkar already caused the death of Roy.

[Lusorius]

The funny thing about this for me, so funny that I finally registered, is that my boss is just like Miko. She wantonly ignores everything that doesn't support her conclusion that she decided on before ever talking to you. And when finally confronted with facts, falls back on, "Why didn't you ever tell me this before?" The answer is, I did, but you didn't listen.

I have to say though, this is an exciting (for us) turn of events for Miko. I think this is where her egoism/narcissistic traits are really showing, with the constant repetitions of "I am special" and "If I can do it, it must be the gods will that I do it".

I'm not going to speculate on what's going to happen, because most of you beat me to it, but I'm hoping the third window doesn't make it.....

[Aquillion]

I wonder what Miko is going to think when she sees O'Chul standing over the throne with his sword raised?

[Cartographer]

For me, it's the last two panels of the strip that really get me frustrated at Miko. They dramatically highlight her arrogance and ignorance. It's the apparent attitude of, "I am delayed from pursuing righteous vengeance against Roy Greenhilt. Therefore, he clearly must have escaped his rightful punishment until another day." Subsequently contrasted with dead, forgotten, abandoned Roy.

Put another way, it is the spectacular magnitude of Miko's apparent belief that she is the center of the universe that galls me.

Yeah, Miko's ignorant of Roy's fate. She's been in prison throughout the battle. The entire strip has been arranged to ensure that Miko stays badly informed about things, and comes to logical-but-wrong conclusions.

If Miko had seen Roy's actions during the battle - hell, if she'd seen Belkar's actions during the battle - then I think she'd be well on the way to forgiving them. And it's not her fault that she hasn't seen them.

[silvadel]

OK, not that I think this will happen, but I'm posting it anyway:

Actual image removed as said image is ....

It was surprisingly easy to make. Anyway, nice job on the comic!

The only way that would happen would be if she pryed the red cloak off redcloaks dead body.


-----

Oh and I want to see soons reaction to miko.

[JT]

I have no idea what's going to happen when she reaches the throne room...

I don't know either, but...
...my money is on Miko taking out the third window on her way in.

[Cartographer]

I don't know either, but...
...my money is on Miko taking out the third window on her way in.

Hell No! That window is reserved!
:haley::elan::belkar::durkon:& Hinjo are all trapped in a tower with only one exit. This exit goes to the armory that builds and services the catapults (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html). Elan recently took a level in Dashing Swordsman, a class with a memorable introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0386.html).

Do I have to draw you a picture here, or can you wait for Rich to do it?
H

[RTGoodman]

Well it's slim, but I see hope for Miko yet. If she finds out that Roy died fighting Xykon while trying to save the city, it might -- note might -- be enough to turn her around.

I don't think so. It's so obvious - Roy and the rest of the OotS only seem to be fighting for AC, but in reality they just want the Gate for themselves, and getting rid of Xykon is the only way to do it.

And now I have to stop thinking like Miko before I actually go nuts and, you know, slice an old man in half or something. Honestly, I'm not sure there's much "turning around" after that.

[jindra34]

Hell No! That window is reserved!
:haley::elan::belkar::durkon:& Hinjo are all trapped in a tower with only one exit. This exit goes to the armory that builds and services the catapults (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html). Elan recently took a level in Dashing Swordsman, a class with a memorable introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0386.html).

Do I have to draw you a picture here, or can you wait for Rich to do it?
H

i thought the window was reserved for Xykon's departure

[Ettlesby]

«My city... My beautiful blue city...»

Not so blue anymore. There's orange everywhere.

Don't forget all the red. You can't see it, but it's there.

[teratorn]

You know what the best part about this comic is? I have no idea what's going to happen when she reaches the throne room and comes face to face with Soon. And I can't wait to find out!

I just hope she doesn't die and goes to lawful good heaven. Poor Roy...

[Vargtass]

i thought the window was reserved for Xykon's departure

I hate to break this to you... he is already departed (ducks!)

[Gaelbert]

Kick down the bars to escape from jail. That's interesting.

[jindra34]

I hate to break this to you... he is already departed (ducks!)

running would be a better idea...

[Xykon_Fan]

Does anyone else find it blissfully ironic that this all fills almost exactly the (unwitting) prediction Roy made here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html)?

Miko is seeing the "gods'" will in everything.

Very well done, Rich...you rock!

[SteveMB]

The funny thing about this for me, so funny that I finally registered, is that my boss is just like Miko.
Oh, man, you have my condolences.... :smalleek:


I have to say though, this is an exciting (for us) turn of events for Miko. I think this is where her egoism/narcissistic traits are really showing, with the constant repetitions of "I am special" and "If I can do it, it must be the gods will that I do it".
Her rationalizations are getting ever more threadbare. ("...Hinjo tried to remove me from my rightful position."?? Yeah, sure, Miko; Hinjo zapped the blue out of your outfit.... :smallconfused: )

[JT]

Hell No! That window is reserved!
:haley::elan::belkar::durkon:& Hinjo are all trapped in a tower with only one exit. This exit goes to the armory that builds and services the catapults (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0455.html). Elan recently took a level in Dashing Swordsman, a class with a memorable introduction (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0386.html).
Do I have to draw you a picture here, or can you wait for Rich to do it?

Okay...

:haley::elan::belkar::durkon:& Hinjo fly through the air with the greatest of ease, while
:miko: leaps (from where, I don't know, but it's the same place she and :belkar: leapt from originally) in as well.
They simultaneously crash through the window, just before
:xykon: makes good his escape. He can even call back his thanks for getting rid of the shards of glass.

[Twilight Jack]

Reading through the thread, I didn't see anyone mention a possibility that has occurred to me. Tsukiko is still outside the tower. What is the probable likelihood of an encounter between her and Miko prior to any final throne room showdown?

Also, could Tsukiko perhaps persuade Miko that she's fighting on the sde of the good guys? After all, she was released from prison to fight for Azure City. Miko doesn't have the ability to Detect Evil anymore, and given her previous reliance on it and what we've seen of her abilities as a judge of character, it could be that Tsukiko uses Miko as her ticket into the throne room.

That's one more guest for the party.

[Chronos]

Just a reminder, everyone, Miko and the Order aren't the only ones heading for the throne room right now. Tsukiko's also on her way there. Which means even more insanity that room's due for, in the very near future.

And no, I can't even begin to guess how it'll all turn out, either.

[shaddy_24]

I have a possible prediction for the next couple comics!
The OotS gets into the throne room and see the ghost martyers being beaten by Xykon and Redcloak. Since both of them are low on spells and hp by this point, the Order (and Hinjo) decide to attack at once, Durkon probably chalenging Xykon with Thor's Might, Bull's Strength and many other buff spells to handle him. The others set out against Redcloak and the hobgoblins that he is calling into the room. A massive battle breaks out.
Enter: Miko. She walks into the room and is stunned to see the battle that is occuring. Haley is shooting at Redcloak and the hobs, Durkon and Hinjo are chasing a weakened Xykon around the room (don't forget Dukon is still 15 feet tall), Elan is fencing the hobgoblin cleric, Belkar is fireballing any goblins he can see and the ghosts are ripping up any evil things they can see (probably short of Belkar). Haley sees her and runs up, saying that Miko can help. Miko, confused, wants to know why the Order is fighting Xykon, since they were obviously on the same side. Haley rips a strip off Miko and tells her everything, getting even more angry when Miko insults Roy, calling him a minion of Xykon. Haley tells her that Roy was killed by Xykon, defending the city. What Miko does next is completely beyond by sight though. I'll let other people figure that out.


OK, now I hate her.

I haven't, up to now.

I didn't, until that last panel.

When I realized that, if she could see what I saw (Roy's fate), she would react with glee to the sight of Roy being buzzard food, given that it is in her opinion precisely "the fate he has so richly deserved since siding with that evil halfling."

This is all because he sided with Belkar? That's why she hates him and wants him to die painfully and "uncleanly" (or whatever the word is for when your body lies alone, forgotten, and unmourned to the extent that scavengers can prey on it)?

She would (probably) do a little happy dance, and praise her Gods at the sight-- which is bad enough, but she would exhibit what I can only call "this unholy glee" not even because she "knows" he burned the city, or because she "knows" he personally is responsible for this battle in which the effin' world might be destroyed (the saving of which, btw, is not her priority, but an unfortunate emergency distraction from her priority, which is making Roy and the OotS "pay"-- presumably for making her feel bad about herself).... but because he told her off in support of Belkar in #250 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0250.html)??

Good.... gravy.

Now, I've been publically humiliated by people I was attracted to on a couple of occasions, and I do know how bad that hurts. And it does hurt, bad. Real bad. But it's a long distance (in my mentality, which I am happy to confirm is apparently sane) from wanting those persons dead (which I don't, but I could see, I suppose), even dead by my hand (if we're going to stretch, let's stretch it as far as it will reach), to wanting them not only dead, but wanting them to die a humiliating, shamefully sad death.

Xykon is neither good, nor human, so you can see how he'd want that kind of thing (and we know that he does, having used such a strategy to kill the paladins). But a human? Who's supposed to be good, and Gods-guided? Much less one who's supposed to have spent most of her life serving an oath sworn to those gods (through those who were sworn to them, then on her own account)?

Oh no. Even my acceptance of/tolerance for her insanity doesn't go that far. She disgusts me, even more than Xykon did in #448.

But I will still find it in me to be better than she is, and hope for an redemptive epiphany for her, or a clean "removal" (death) that somehow does serve good, before she does any more harm in her brokenness. And I will be grateful that all that is good and human in me still shudders at that last panel, and would, even if it was Miko herself lying there.


Brilliant. Absolutally brilliant.

[Viktor]

It seems that Miko's abilities of deduction are limited to the assumption that anything she wants to do and is capable of doing is her twelve god's wish.

I would like the opportunity to point out to her that assigning such microscopic and direct involvement of her god's in every single little detail of the world was naive at best. If that perspective was justified there would most likely be no evil deed in the world and freedom of will and, in fact, the diversity of life would not even exist.

Furthermore, I might even like to suggest that she try doing something opposite, or simply something OTHER, than what she currently perceives as their wish. For example, staying in the prison cell or sparing the lives of the Order of The Stick. See if the Gods would stop her in that choice.

Yes, I would most definitely like to point her flawed reasoning out to her.

[David Argall]

So Miko meets our predictions, getting out of that jail, and doing so in a way that shows her continued insanity. Very good. So for future predictions…

She goes thru the unbroken window. This is silly, but glass shattering all over the place is just more dramatic. [Alternate theory. She uses the open window and one or several of the characters objects on the grounds that crashing thru the last window was more dramatic.]

Soon and the ghost paladins will be defeated, just before Miko arrives. [A scene where they are together for a comic or two is possible if we can get in some good Soon-Miko conversation.] Miko will be defeated about the time the party arrives and achieves some success, probably destroying the gate, after which the lich simply leaves and orders everybody else to follow him, which they do, except for a few objectors who get fireballed and converted into zombies.

Miko will continue to continue to blame everything on Roy until his body is brought in and it is pointed out he died fighting the lich.

[Netherwood]

You know what I want to see happen next? The Twelve Gods resurrect Roy and make him a Paladin and send him into the battle...

...and I want it just to see Miko's mind go splat.

[jindra34]

You know what I want to see happen next? The Twelve Gods resurrect Roy and make him a Paladin and send him into the battle...

...and I want it just to see Miko's mind go splat.

you can see what happens next for your self

[A Quiet Person]

I'm not so sure that getting to the throne room will be easy or fast for some of the characters, including Miko. The room is sealed, surrounded with Hobgoblins and has a "15d6 of whirling death" barrier too.

But that aside, the Giant sure knows how to capture, in Miko, a set of qualities that frustrate the reader and get him or her involved in the story.

As an aside, I can't shake the feeling that the battle for Azure City is going to end cataclysmically. Lots of characters will either die or be put to flight. I'm predicting lots of special effects, and possibly one huge explosion. It seems to be dramatically appropriate.

And when the smoke clears and the dust settles, one figure will be left standing on the field of battle.

:mitd: "Helloooo? Anyone there? ...Where'd everybody go?"

[jindra34]

I'm not so sure that getting to the throne room will be easy or fast for some of the characters, including Miko. The room is sealed, surrounded with Hobgoblins and has a "15d6 of whirling death" barrier too.

But that aside, the Giant sure knows how to capture, in Miko, a set of qualities that frustrate the reader and get him or her involved in the story.

As an aside, I can't shake the feeling that the battle for Azure City is going to end cataclysmically. Lots of characters will either die or be put to flight. I'm predicting lots of special effects, and possibly one huge explosion. It seems to be dramatically appropriate.

And when the smoke clears and the dust settles, one figure will be left standing on the field of battle.

:mitd: "Helloooo? Anyone there? ...Where'd everybody go?"

see next comic cause its up...

[factotum]

I'm not so sure that getting to the throne room will be easy or fast for some of the characters, including Miko. The room is sealed, surrounded with Hobgoblins and has a "15d6 of whirling death" barrier too.


Miko started from the prison, which is already inside the castle. The Blade Barrier is on the gate between the courtyard and the castle...

[Professor Tanhauser]

You know what I want to see happen next? The Twelve Gods resurrect Roy and make him a Paladin and send him into the battle...

...and I want it just to see Miko's mind go splat.

I don't think roy would want to be a paladin, and if he was to be one, who'sa god would he serve?

[carais]

Aribeth and her ludicrous steel bustier may not have had much by of convincing character depth, but she was generally civil, gracious and forbearing for the first act. It was even possible to talk her around to reason during the boss-fight, if you had enough ranks in Pursuade. Or did I miss something?

You meet Aribeth on her own, it's the fight before Maugrim (after which fight you get the last Word of Power). A high Persuade rank is not necessary, however you need a certain item which she gave you some time before. As far as I know it's either that or kill her.
/edit: She gives you that item only under certain circumstances.

A bit more on topic - that joke about Miko and the Ball of Insanity was hilarious *g*. I (haven't read 461 yet) really wonder what's going to happen. I wouldn't put it beyond Miko that even Soon himself cannot sway her in case she meets him. Well, we'll see.

[Netherwood]

I don't think roy would want to be a paladin, and if he was to be one, who'sa god would he serve?

I don't think he would either... though if he did go Paladin, it could be as a general Paladin of all the gods or something.

Like I said, I just want to see Miko's mind go splat.

[katana2665]

yep. It's official...she's a whacko!

[Estelindis]

You meet Aribeth on her own, it's the fight before Maugrim (after which fight you get the last Word of Power). A high Persuade rank is not necessary, however you need a certain item which she gave you some time before. As far as I know it's either that or kill her.
/edit: She gives you that item only under certain circumstances.
Actually, you don't need that item, as the plot that grants you said item is not available to female characters. :smallwink: However, my female character was able to persuade her using diplomacy and an appeal to her better nature. I only wish she was able to teach Nasher a lesson about justice!

Back on topic, it was great to see a second comic in one day! (It was for me, anyway.) And I, too, have a very bad feeling about this. I hope Miko doesn't end up contributing to the bad guys' side yet again, but I get the sense that my hope might be in vain.

At least we know it'll be resolved in the next 19 strips... Six weeks or so... Gah, the tension is too much!

Last panel was classic, though. :smallbiggrin:

[AkodoKoji]

Eventually she's going to decide that the Twelve Gods stripped her of her paladinhood precisely because they needed her to be able to break the paladin code.

Miko as Grey Guard=Awesome

[5tephen]

Justify justify justify justify, your unreasonable world view!

[Zeku]

I don't think it matters whether the author sides with a particular worldview, he's just telling this story, and it's a good one.

The only kinds of things we know for sure about this universe is that Belkar is definitely evil, Miko is probably well into lawful evil territory without realizing it, and that these kinds of alignments are determined by actions, not by intent.

With that having been said, Miko's only issue is her delusion that the Twelve Gods have a purpose for her. This problem of hers is no doubt seated in her need for some kind of validation. She's not helped by the fact that she does, in reality, kick a great deal of butt, speaking in terms of actual fighting.

Now, the bottom line is that we don't actually know whether the Twelve Gods have a purpose for Miko. The only thing we know is that Miko is assuming that they do, which is a fantasy.

Yes, from our human, PC perspective, Miko has clearly identifiable character flaws, at least based upon the information we currently possess. But we do not possess any knowledge concerning the Twelve Gods' motivations. In fact, the only information we have about them is the one particular act of removing her powers.

Let's not indulge in the illogical hubris of Sherlock Holmes, who believes he can arrive at truth by simply assuming that he is privy to all known possibilities. (By the way, this is Miko's error as well.)

[fractal]

Let's not indulge in the illogical hubris of Sherlock Holmes, who believes he can arrive at truth by simply assuming that he is privy to all known possibilities. (By the way, this is Miko's error as well.)
What's the alternative? To assume that everything you haven't directly witnessed (and maybe that too) is unknown and unknowable?

It's important to draw inferences, form theories, and reach conclusions. Just don't forget that your deductions haven't been proven yet, and remain open to contradicting evidence.

[DetailBear]

It's odd that there are tons and tons of dead people in the battle, but the vulters are picking on roy. he must taste good

Have you ever tasted a Hobgoblin? It's an acquired taste, even for a vulture. For the ghouls (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html), on the other hand...

Plus, he's isolated. The other dead are all over by the city wall or inside the city, where there's a lot of activity.