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WarrentheHero
2015-12-12, 02:00 AM
The Inquisitor
This can be considered an entry for the Base Class Contest II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?471755-Base-Class-Contest-II-Light-and-Dark-5E)

Most people of the world are familiar with clerics; the healers and preachers who spread the word of the Gods. And of course, paladins, who uphold virtuous principles and protect the meek. The Inquisitor, while undoubtedly devoted to their god, is neither of these. Inquisitors are holy hunters; they seek to strike out into the world and unleash the wrath of their god upon those who defy them. Inquisitors are those that even devout Paladins and Clerics would consider "overzealous." An Inquisitor would reply that others are simply not zealous enough in their faith. Each Inquisitor has different goals, largely based on their god and their god's desires. An Inquisitor of Pelor, for example, may relentlessly seek out and destroy undead, while and Inquisitor of Silvanus may hunt those who would harm or destroy nature. No matter which god they follow, all Inquisitors have divine purpose.

The Inquisitor Table


Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
1
2
3
4
5
6
7


1
+2
Judgement, Spellcasting
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


2
+2
Divine Hunter, Inquisitor's Talent
2
3
-
-
-
-
-
-


3
+2
Inquisitor's Mantle
2
3
2
-
-
-
-
-


4
+2
Ability Score Improvement
3
4
2
-
-
-
-
-


5
+3
Extra Judgement
3
4
3
-
-
-
-
-


6
+3
-
3
4
3
2
-
-
-
-


7
+2
Inquisitor's Mantle Feature
3
4
3
2
-
-
-
-


8
+3
Ability Score Improvement, Divine Flare
3
4
3
2
-
-
-
-


9
+4
-
3
4
3
3
1
-
-
-


10
+4
Extra Judgement, Improved Judgment
4
4
3
3
1
-
-
-


11
+4
Inquisitor's Mantle Feature
4
4
3
3
1
-
-
-


12
+4
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
2
2
1
-
-


13
+5
-
4
4
3
3
2
1
-
-


14
+5
-
4
4
3
3
2
1
-
-


15
+5
Inquisitor's Mantle Feature
4
4
3
3
2
2
1
-


16
+5
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
3
2
2
1
-


17
+6
Slayer
4
4
3
3
2
2
1
-


18
+6
-
4
4
3
3
2
2
1
1


19
+6
Ability Score Improvement
4
4
3
3
2
2
1
1


20
+6
Wrathful Avenger
4
4
3
3
2
2
1
1



Class Features
As an Inquisitor, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per Inquisitor level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per Inquisitor level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, one-handed martial weapons, heavy crossbow
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Intelligence, Wisdom
Skills: Choose two skills from History, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, Religion

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

(a) a martial weapon or (b)two simple weapons
(a) a shield or (b) a light crossbow
(a) a priest's pack or (b) an dungeoneer's pack
Leather armor
a holy symbol


Judgment
Once per long rest, you can invoke the holy vengeance of your god as a bonus action to levy divine judgement upon your foes. When you use this feature, which lasts for one minute choose one of the following:

Blazing: Your magic swells with the strength of your god. Whenever a creature is dealt damage by one of your spells, it takes an additional 1 point of damage of that spellís type.
Celerity: Empowered with righteous vigor, your movement speed increases by 10 feet.
Consecration: Your body is your temple, and that of your godís. You gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Destruction: Your weapons glow with holy fervor. Your weapon attacks gain +1d4 on damage rolls
Fury: Your godís wrath shows through your holy symbol. Your spell attacks gain +1 on attack rolls, and your Spell Save DC increases by 1 while this Judgement is active.
Justice: Your god has decided that your weapons shall strike true, and you gain +1 on weapon attack rolls.
Purity: Like an unwavering beacon, your body holds the warmth of devotion to your god. You gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws.
Smiting: There is no dissuading an Inquisitor with a purpose. Your weapons count as magical for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction
Wayfinding: Your ranged weapon attacks and ranged spell attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover..

Spellcasting
As a conduit for divine power, you can cast Inquisitor spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the Inquisitor spell list.
Cantrips
At 1st level, you know three cantrips o f your choice from the Inquisitor spell list. You learn additional Inquisitor cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Inquisitor table.
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Inquisitor table show s how many spell slots you have to cast your spells o f 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spellís level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. You prepare the list of Inquisitor spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the Inquisitor spell list. W hen you do so, choose a number of Inquisitor spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + your Inquisitor level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
For example, if you are a 3rd-level Inquisitor, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Wisdom of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination. If you prepare the 1st-level spell cure wounds, you can cast it using a 1st-level or 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesnít remove it from your list of prepared spells.
Spellcasting Ability
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your Inquisitor spells. The power of your spells comes from your devotion to your deity. You use your Wisdom whenever an Inquisitor spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a Inquisitor spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

Ritual Casting
You can cast a Inquisitor spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and you have the spell prepared.
Spellcasting Focus
You can use a holy symbol (found in chapter 5) as a spellcasting focus for your Inquisitor spells.
Multiclassing
If you multiclass with this class, multiply your levels in this class (or any 3/4 cast progression class) by .75, rounded down, minimum 1.

Divine Hunter
Your profession calls for precise knowledge of your foes. Beginning at 2nd level, you may spend a minute studying a foe in an attempt to glean divine insight about a non-humanoid foe of your choice. To do so, make an Insight check against a DC equal to 10 + the creatureís CR rating (rounded up). If you succeed, you learn one of the following aspects about that creature:
-Current hitpoints
-Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score
-Whether it is able to cast spells
Once you successfully use this feature, you cannot use it again until completing a short rest.

Inquisitorís Talent
You are highly trained in getting, or scaring, the information you seek out of others. At 2nd level, choose Insight or Intimidation. You gain proficiency in that skill if you are not already proficient with it, and your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make using that skill.

Inquisitorís Mantle
At 3rd level, you choose a Mantle to take up for your god. You can choose to adopt one of two Mantles: The Mantle of the Crusader, or the Mantle of the Darkhunter. These are detailed at the end of the class section.

Ability Score Increase

Extra Judgement
At 5th Level, you can more completely channel your Godís will. You may use Judgement an additional time per long rest.

Divine Flare
Beginning at 8th Level, you can use an action to channel your godís might through your Holy Symbol into a powerful, destructive blast. Each creature in a cone 20 feet wide and 30 feet long must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or become blinded for one minute. An effected creature may make another Constitution saving throw at the end of each of their turns to end this effect. In addition, on a failed save, creatures take 6d8 radiant or necrotic damage (chosen when you gain this feature), or half as much on a successful one.
Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you complete a long rest.

Extra Judgement
At 10th Level, your connection with your god deepens, allowing you an additional use of Judgement per long rest, to a maximum of 3.

Greater Judgement
At 10th Level, the options and strength of many of your Judgements increases greatly.

Blazing: Instead of taking one additional damage from your spells, enemies now suffer additional damage equal to your Wisdom modifier.
Celerity: Your bonus movement speed while using this feature increases to 15 feet
Destruction: Instead of gaining a d4 bonus on weapon damage rolls, you may add a d6 to your weapon damage rolls.
Fury: Your bonus to spell attacks and spell save DC increases to 2 instead of 1.
Justice: Instead of gaining a +1 bonus on weapon attack rolls, you add your Wisdom modifier.
Penance: Enemies whose speed is reduced cannot take reactions until the beginning of their next turn.
Pursuit: The bonus damage against your Prey increases to 2d6.
Smiting: In addition to its existing effect, this Judgement causes enemies struck by your weapon while this Judgement is active to take an additional d6 radiant or necrotic (chosen when you gain the Greater Judgement class feature) damage whenever they suffer that type of damage for the next d4 rounds. This effect is not cumulative.

Slayer
At 17th level, choose Lawful, Good, Chaotic, or Evil. You have advantage on weapon attack rolls against creatures with that alignment.

Wrathful Avenger
At 20th level, you become the pinnacle of divine wrath, and may use Judgement up to 4 times per long rest.
Additionally, once per long rest, at your option, whenever any Judgement effect is active, you gain the following benefits:
-A fly speed equal to half of your movement speed.
-You may use your object interaction to begin to or stop emanating bright light in a 10-foot radius and dim light for an additional 10 feet.
-Your weapon attacks deal 2d8 radiant or necrotic damage (chosen when you gain this feature).
-You add your Wisdom modifier to weapon attack rolls.


Inquisitor's Mantles
The way of the Inquisitor is tough and requires determination. This determination often molds them into one of two distinct paths. Those that gather others to their cause and lead these allies to battle take up the Mantle of the Crusader. Those Inquisitors who tread a darker path use the shadows to stalk their foes

Mantle of the Crusader
Those who take the Mantle of the Crusader are typically those whose zealous devotion is so abundant that it spills unto those around them. They channel their god's might in undeniable ways and rally commoners to assist them in a singular, divine task.

Blessed Strike
When you gain this feature at 3rd level, you learn to channel some of the more brutish Paladinís ability to spontaneously obliterate foes. Whenever you hit with a weapon attack but before dealing damage, you may expend a number of spell slots whose combined spell levels are less than or equal to your Wisdom modifier(minimum 1). For each spell slot expended this way, your attack deals an additional d10 radiant or necrotic damage (chosen when you gain this feature).

Crusaderís Judgement
When you take up this Mantle at 3rd level, you gain the following Judgement option:
Penance: Whenever you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or have its speed reduced to 0 until the end of their next turn. A creature whose speed is reduced this way cannot be effected again by the same Judgement. However, using another usage of Judgement may effect the creature normally.

Crusaderís Cause
At 7th level, you gain proficiency in the Persuasion skill and may use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier on Persuasion checks.
You may attempt a DC 15 Persuasion (per person) check to convince an amount of people up to you Inquisitor level to take up arms. These people become inspired by your cause and will attempt to fulfill a singular purpose that must be related to your god or to ending an immediate threat to the people. These people are treated as Skilled Hirelings.

Zealous Inspiration
Once you reach 11th level, as a bonus action on your turn, you can fill your allies with zealous passion to accomplish the goal at hand. All allies within 20 feet of you gain temporary hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier plus twice your Inquisitor Level. Once you use this feature, you must complete a long rest before you may use it again.

Crusaderís Authority
At 15th level, your holy fervor has reached truly astounding levels, and you can even share it with your allies. A number of times per long rest equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), whenever an ally that you can see within 30 feet of you hits with a weapon attack, you may use your reaction to use Blessed Strike on that attack.



Mantle of the Darkunter
Those few Inquisitors who take this Mantle tend to be lone wolves, preferring to stalk their prey in the dead of night. They move seamlessly in shadows, remaining hidden while they study their target, only attacking when the time is right.

Hunt From Shadows
At 3rd Level, you gain proficiency in Stealth.
A number of times per short rest equal to your Wisdom modifier, whenever you hit a creature against whom you have advantage, you may choose to deal an additional 1d8 radiant or necrotic damage (chosen when you gain this feature).

Darkhunterís Judgement
When you take up this Mantle at 3rd level, you gain the following Judgement option:
Pursuit: Whenever you hit with a weapon attack, you may choose to mark that creature as your Prey. You may only have one Prey at a time. Your Prey loses this status when the Judgement ends. Your speed is increased by 5 feet while moving towards your Prey, and your weapon attacks against it deal an additional 1d4 dmage of the type (radiant or necrotic) chosen in Hunt From Shadows.

Darkhunterís Index
As an Inquisitor who focuses on the dark and the monstrous, you have learned to keep track of your enemiesí weaknesses. After successfully using Divine Hunter to learn the same information about 3 different creatures, you gain the ability to automatically learn knowledge about any given member of that species. As a bonus action on your turn, you may automatically learn the given piece of information about a creature of that species that you can see. For example, after successfully learning the Intelligence score of three separate Ettins, a Darkhunter may use use a bonus action to determine the Intelligence score of any Ettin.
Additionally, you may add the following options to the list of things you can discern while using Divine Hunter:
-Fastest movement speed
-One special sense
-One resistance

Cloak of Shadows
By 11th Level, you have learned to become one with the shadows. When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible. You remain invisible until you make an attack, cast a spell, or are in an area of bright light.
Additionally, if you do not have darkvision, you gain the ability to see in nonmagical darkness with a range of 30í. You cannot discern colors this way; everything is in shades of grey.

Ceaseless Hunter
By 15th level, when you hit your Prey with a weapon attack, you deal Hunt From Shadow's bonus damage, even if you did not have advantage on the attack roll. Additionally, when you hit a creature with a weapon attack while invisible, you deal 2d8 additional damage of the type specified by your Hunt From Shadows. This damage is cumulative with Hunt From Shadows.





Inquisitor Spell List
Cantrips
Frostbite
Light
Mending
Produce Flame
Resistance
Sacred Flame
Thaumaturgy

1st Level
Bane
Command
Detect Evil and Good
Detect Magic (Ritual)
Divine Favor
Guiding Bolt
Healing Word
Inflict Wounds
Protection from Good and Evil
Searing Smite
Thunderous Smite
Wrathful Smite

2nd Level
Blindness/Deafness
Branding Smite
Continual Flame
Darkness
Detect Thoughts
Gentle Repose (Ritual)
Hold Person
Invisibility
See Invisibility
Silence (Ritual)
Zone of Truth


3rd Level
Aura of Vitality
Beacon of Hope
Clairvoyance
Crusader's Mantle
Daylight
Dispel Magic
Fear
Glyph of Warding
Magic Circle
Speak With Dead


4th Level
Arcane Eye
Banishment
Confusion
Divination
Freedom of Movement
Locate Creature


5th Level
Dispel Evil and Good
Flame Strike
Hallow
Legend Lore
Planar Binding
Hold Monster


6th Level
Blade Barrier
Heroes' Feast
Planar Ally
Circle of Death
Eyebite
Sunbeam
True Seeing


7th Level
Conjure Celestial (Demon/Fiend also)
Divine Word
Mordenkainen's Sword
Plane Shift
Resurrection
Symbol


EDIT LOG
12-12-15: Cleared up a few typos
12-15-15: Added link to Base Class Contest II
12-15-15: Added a note to Spellcasting regarding multiclass. Tweaked the Destruction Judgement to allow for better level scaling. Thanks to Mr.Moron for these suggestions
12-25-15: Cleared up a few more typos
12-31-15: Added ASIs to levels 16 and 19, as should have been there. Inquisitor's Talent now works like Expertise. Added repeat saving throws for Divine Flare's blind. Added Greater Pursuit, reworded Greater Smiting. Removed damage bonus from Slayer, reduced damage from Wrathful Avenger. Refined some parts of Mantle of the Darkhunter.
1-7-16: Clarified that Judgement is a bonus action, which was previously unmarked.

Mr.Moron
2015-12-12, 02:26 AM
Dead Levels: 13th, 14th, 19th.

Destruction judgement is weak-sauce. +1 damage rolls isn't comparable to the other benefits, which are all quite good. Given it's a long use ability and you don't get extra attack this should be a bigger bonus.

Arkhios
2015-12-12, 04:58 AM
Maybe it's just narrow-mindedness from my part, but I'm not particularly a big fan of 3/4 spellcasting, mainly because that's not "a thing" within PHB and therefore not in line with the core design. Thus, I would lower the Inquisitor to 1/2 spellcasting, grant them extra attack and possibly even fighting style with in line to Paladin's choices, but perhaps replace Protection style with Archery style.

EDIT: 3/4 spellcasting progress will also cause a little too much of complications with multiclassing. It's not impossible to lay out, it's just unneccessary work.

Mr.Moron
2015-12-12, 05:07 AM
Maybe it's just narrow-mindedness from my part, but I'm not particularly a big fan of 3/4 spellcasting, mainly because that's not "a thing" within PHB and therefore not in line with the core design. Thus, I would lower the Inquisitor to 1/2 spellcasting, grant them extra attack and possibly even fighting style with in line to Paladin's choices, but perhaps replace Protection style with Archery style.

EDIT: 3/4 spellcasting progress will also cause a little too much of complications with multiclassing. It's not impossible to lay out, it's just unneccessary work.

What multi-classing complications specifically? I've used this sort of design before and couldn't find any in the passes I did on the matter. This claim is kind of vague but it sounds like you're aware of multiple relevant complications so sharing them would be pretty useful for anyone doing this sort of design.

Arkhios
2015-12-12, 05:12 AM
Every second or every third level is easy to add up with 1-to-1 progression, but having to calculate every fourth level out is a tad too complicated. Simplicity isn't always a bad thing :)

Mr.Moron
2015-12-12, 05:35 AM
Every second or every third level is easy to add up with 1-to-1 progression, but having to calculate every fourth level out is a tad too complicated. Simplicity isn't always a bad thing :)

I'm not really sure what this means? If you're going by counting levels with 1/2 you skip every other level, if it's 1/3rd you skip two levels between counts, if it's 3/4ths you skip every 4th level. If you're multiplying it's 0.5,0.33 and 0.75 respectively. I'm not really sure where the extra complexity is coming from? It's exact same operation as you'd use with an other fractional levels, just with a different number. There isn't anything additional to calculate.

Simplicity isn't a bad thing but the calculations don't have any added layers complexity to them.

EDIT: Which isn't to say "Added complexity during multi-classing" isn't/wouldn't be a valid criticism. I'm just not quite seeing a solid basis for the claim you're trying to make here.

WarrentheHero
2015-12-12, 09:06 AM
Dead Levels: 13th, 14th, 19th.

Destruction judgement is weak-sauce. +1 damage rolls isn't comparable to the other benefits, which are all quite good. Given it's a long use ability and you don't get extra attack this should be a bigger bonus.

What do you recommend? A bump to +2?

Mr.Moron
2015-12-12, 09:13 AM
What do you recommend? A bump to +2?

My gut says "Your proficiency bonus".

+1 AC scales in terms of raw damage numbers because monsters get more powerful and more attacks that might miss because of it.
+1 to saves scales in value as spells get more powerful.
+1 to DCs scales as your spells get more powerful.
+1 to attack rolls scales with whatever benefits/items you get that add to your attack damage or rider effects.

and so on. A damage benefit should scale as well.

On second pass, Blazing could probably use a re-work as well.

WarrentheHero
2015-12-12, 10:55 AM
My gut says "Your proficiency bonus".

+1 AC scales in terms of raw damage numbers because monsters get more powerful and more attacks that might miss because of it.
+1 to saves scales in value as spells get more powerful.
+1 to DCs scales as your spells get more powerful.
+1 to attack rolls scales with whatever benefits/items you get that add to your attack damage or rider effects.

and so on. A damage benefit should scale as well.

On second pass, Blazing could probably use a re-work as well.

Well, I had similar thoughts with regard to scaling, which is why I included the upgrades in the Greater Judgment 10th level feature. Unless you think that's a bad move and they should scale inherently and not get an upgrade halfway through.

Mr.Moron
2015-12-12, 11:14 AM
Well, I had similar thoughts with regard to scaling, which is why I included the upgrades in the Greater Judgment 10th level feature. Unless you think that's a bad move and they should scale inherently and not get an upgrade halfway through.

No grater is judgement is fine, for the judgement I think are there. +2 AC/Attack/DCs are very powerful but on a class with only 7th level spells, no extra attack and only watered down version of smite they're fine. It's just the damage bonuses provided are really weak and not in line with the other effects. I think making those two judgement more powerful would be good for the class as a whole.

WarrentheHero
2015-12-12, 11:23 AM
EDIT: 3/4 spellcasting progress will also cause a little too much of complications with multiclassing. It's not impossible to lay out, it's just unnecessary work.

This is my first class posted, but I have a few on paper, and I always design them, for 5e anyway, with the idea that multiclassing is a possibility, but not with multiclassing in mind. I feel like every class should be unto itself, excluding multiclass. From a design perspective, anyway. After all, if a class is balanced, then it won't make a character ridiculously OP if they multi.

That said, I can totally understand where you're coming from, though I would follow the same precedent set in the PHB: Add levels of full casters, add half-level of half-casters (Paladins, Rangers), one-third of third-casters (EK and AT), and three-fourths of three-fourths casters (Inquisitor), all rounded down. So if you have 4 levels of Inquisitor, you add 3 levels to your caster level.

Now that I'm typing it, I do see a problem. Even an EK or AT's spell levels become relevant sooner than an Inquisitor's. If we round up, they're all fine and good for the first several levels, but it breaks down.
1st-------.75 of a level------add 1 level
2nd------1.5 of a level------add 2 levels
3rd-------2.25 of a level----add 3 levels
4th-------3 of a level--------add 3 levels
5th-------3.75 of a level-----add 4 levels

And it gets really weird. Mathematically it still works, but it's weird.

But if we drop them to half-caster, we have to add in Extra Attack and take away cantrips. I don't mind extra attack, but I don't like the idea of losing cantrips.

Rounding up, it works, even if it feels wonky at first.

WarrentheHero
2015-12-12, 11:30 AM
No grater is judgement is fine, for the judgement I think are there. +2 AC/Attack/DCs are very powerful but on a class with only 7th level spells, no extra attack and only watered down version of smite they're fine. It's just the damage bonuses provided are really weak and not in line with the other effects. I think making those two judgement more powerful would be good for the class as a whole.

What do you think of one of the following?
-At 1st level, you add d4 damage, and at 10th, you add Prof mod? at 10th level your Prof mod is +4, so you're capping out the 1st-level version and scaling from there
-At 1st level, add half Prof mod, rounded down. At 10th, add full Prof mod.

I sort of agree that it needs to be increased, but I worry that adding Prof mod makes the scaling well enough that it makes any Greater version unnecessary.

Of the two options I just prevented, I prefer the first one.

Mr.Moron
2015-12-12, 11:37 AM
This is my first class posted, but I have a few on paper, and I always design them, for 5e anyway, with the idea that multiclassing is a possibility, but not with multiclassing in mind. I feel like every class should be unto itself, excluding multiclass. From a design perspective, anyway. After all, if a class is balanced, then it won't make a character ridiculously OP if they multi.

That said, I can totally understand where you're coming from, though I would follow the same precedent set in the PHB: Add levels of full casters, add half-level of half-casters (Paladins, Rangers), one-third of third-casters (EK and AT), and three-fourths of three-fourths casters (Inquisitor), all rounded down. So if you have 4 levels of Inquisitor, you add 3 levels to your caster level.

Now that I'm typing it, I do see a problem. Even an EK or AT's spell levels become relevant sooner than an Inquisitor's. If we round up, they're all fine and good for the first several levels, but it breaks down.
1st-------.75 of a level------add 1 level
2nd------1.5 of a level------add 2 levels
3rd-------2.25 of a level----add 3 levels
4th-------3 of a level--------add 3 levels
5th-------3.75 of a level-----add 4 levels


You're overthinking it. Just follow the normal procedure. Multiply by .75, round down. The only exception you need to make in this case is minimum 1.

1 Levels = 1 Level
2 Levels = 1 Level
3 Levels = 2 Levels
4 Levels = 3 Levels
5 Levels = 3 Levels
6 Levels = 4 Levels
7 Levels = 5 Levels
8 Levels = 6 Levels
9 Levels = 6 Levels
10 Levels = 7 Levels
11 Levels = 8 Levels
12 Levels = 8 Levels

I think you really need to stick with the 3/4ths spell progression if only because without it and then gaining extra attack this really starts to feel like it doesn't diverge enough from paladin. It casts divine spells like a paladin, has a smite-like ability, selects from a menu of thematic/belief driven abilities. Without it this is going to need major rework to feel like it's different enough from the paladin to exist in a space other than "Why isn't this just a new Oath?"



What do you think of one of the following?
-At 1st level, you add d4 damage, and at 10th, you add Prof mod? at 10th level your Prof mod is +4, so you're capping out the 1st-level version and scaling from there
-At 1st level, add half Prof mod, rounded down. At 10th, add full Prof mod.

I sort of agree that it needs to be increased, but I worry that adding Prof mod makes the scaling well enough that it makes any Greater version unnecessary.

Of the two options I just prevented, I prefer the first one.


I would say maybe +d4, +d6 at 10th. You really seem to be wanting to err on the conservative side to avoid being "Overpowered". Maybe it's just personal taste but I'd rather have something be a bit on the strong side than the weak side. If folks are CharOPing to bust the game open they're gonna be able to do it. Better something someone go through, pick options at random and get a solid character out of. Even if you run the risk of introducing some multi-book cherry picked "Build" that trivializes encounters. I mean we already have those anyway.

Another thought:

Maybe Divine Flare should be a use for Channel Divinity and they should have Channel Divinity as a class feature, same as paladins/clerics. It really feels like one in all but name, and so should probably have the name.

WarrentheHero
2015-12-12, 11:59 AM
You're overthinking it. Just follow the normal procedure. Multiply by .75, round down. The only exception you need to make in this case is minimum 1.

I think you really need to stick with the 3/4ths spell progression if only because without it and then gaining extra attack this really starts to feel like it doesn't diverge enough from paladin. It casts divine spells like a paladin, has a smite-like ability, selects from a menu of thematic/belief driven abilities. Without it this is going to need major rework to feel like it's different enough from the paladin to exist in a space other than "Why isn't this just a new Oath?"
I suppose you're right. I tend to overthink things. One way I'm hoping to be clearly divergent from Paladin, besides the casting, is to get across the 'striker' feel. I know 5e doesn't have "roles", but I like the way that 4e summed up different roles with "defender" and "controller" and "striker" and what have you.



I would say maybe +d4, +d6 at 10th. You really seem to be wanting to err on the conservative side to avoid being "Overpowered". Maybe it's just personal taste but I'd rather have something be a bit on the strong side than the weak side. If folks are CharOPing to bust the game open they're gonna be able to do it. Better something someone go through, pick options at random and get a solid character out of. Even if you run the risk of introducing some multi-book cherry picked "Build" that trivializes encounters. I mean we already have those anyway.
True enough. Some of my classes in the past have been on the OP side so I'm trying to limit that potential. I can make an edit to reflect this, I think it'll work.



Maybe Divine Flare should be a use for Channel Divinity and they should have Channel Divinity as a class feature, same as paladins/clerics. It really feels like one in all but name, and so should probably have the name.
I could do that, but since Channel Divinity is typically a low-level feature, I'd have to add that in at low level, and with options since Channel Divinity always comes with at least two when introduced. I have no inherent problem with this, but it adds extra layers of complication to the class.
Alternatively, we could keep everything the same and call it "Channel Divinity: Divine Flare." It wouldn't change anything mechanically, unless you multiclass.
Alternatively alternatively, we could make it Channel Divinity, separate it into its two core parts, blind and damage, and make each of those options at an 8th level Channel Divinity, which is admittedly late compared to other CDs.


I'd also just like to thank you real quick for helping me work on this. Real bro-tier stuff.

Eldritch Memes
2015-12-13, 03:49 AM
Interesting concept! I have felt that there was a need for a divine rogue - style pc class. A few questions though: in your weapon proficiencies you specify one handed martial weapons. Does an inquisitor who wields a versatile weapon lose proficiency when they twohand it? Also, not sure whether it was intentional or not, but the crusader's smite ability lacks the double dice against fiends/undead that the paladin's smite has. Love the three quarters casting too, would love to see another class with it.

WarrentheHero
2015-12-15, 05:14 PM
Interesting concept! I have felt that there was a need for a divine rogue - style pc class.
Thanks, mate


A few questions though: in your weapon proficiencies you specify one handed martial weapons. Does an inquisitor who wields a versatile weapon lose proficiency when they twohand it?
This is actually something I hadn't thought through all the way. Thinking on it now, since it would only be three weapons, each doing no more than d10 when two-handed, I don't see why they wouldn't be proficient with Versatile weapons, even in two-hand form. It increases average damage and lowers defense, so their striker archetype still feels intact. Also, it lets you pretend you're a Hunter from Bloodborne, which has a little bit of the flavor I was trying to go with, especially on Darkhunter.


Also, not sure whether it was intentional or not, but the crusader's smite ability lacks the double dice against fiends/undead that the paladin's smite has. Love the three quarters casting too, would love to see another class with it.
This was intentional. An important aspect about the Inquisitor is that they don't have a set enemy they're 'supposed' to fight. An Inquisitor fights whoever and whatever their god tells them to, with righteous authority. If that happens to be a fiend or an undead, that's great. But if, for example, a god tells their Inquisitor "You hunt orcs", the orc-hunter would feel disenfranchised because they don't get that extra nova.
Additionally, the Crusader's ability is only supposed to be a facsimile of the Paladin's Smite. It has less damage-per-spell-level, but greater burst potential. It also isn't focused, meaning the Paladin can out-nova a Crusader, situationally.

Eldritch Memes
2015-12-16, 07:21 PM
I see your point on the blessed strike ability. Another thing I noticed is that a few spells are repeated on your list, such as sacred flame and resistance.

WarrentheHero
2015-12-24, 12:54 PM
Friendly bump.

I'm also looking for feedback specifically on the Darkhunter. I'm worried that the conditions I put on some of the abilities may be too restrictive, so that you can only do the stuff you want to do some of the time, maybe.

Ivellius
2015-12-31, 11:38 AM
Add me to the list of someone who just doesn't really like 3/4 casting. Not saying it's imbalanced but I'm not a fan (note how you gain 5th-level spells along with an ASI at 12th level). 2/3 casting isn't any better as an option, either.


*Dead levels at 13, 14, 16, and 19 (should be an ASI here) are not good, as are features gained along with ASIs.

Class Features:

*Divine Hunter is cool.

*Inquisitor's Talent should really just be proficiency or expertise if you already have proficiency.

*Divine Flare looks *strong.* Damage comparable to a Fireball with a 1-minute Blind rider effect (should probably switch the order of how it's described, by the way)? Don't care if it is only once; I'll take that.

*Greater Judgments (and Judgments in general, which provide a nice scaling unique "thing" for Inquisitors) is a good concept, but I think all of the judgments should improve. Might have too many options on them, and I could easily see them all sorted by class archetype (only get certain ones based on Mantle choice).

Under that, Greater Smiting does not make sense to me. It refreshes whenever it triggers? Isn't it stronger than the Greater Destruction? I can't really figure out what it's supposed to do.

*Slayer is pretty strong, too, and a big jump in effectiveness against certain targets as well as a pretty good always-on ability. It comes really late, though. I'd consider adding the first part as part of the capstone and buffing up weapon damage earlier if you think it needs it.

*For Wrathful Avenger, I'd just have it increase the Slayer damage dice (either in size or number) rather than adding yet another die size to roll when active.

Mantle Features:

*The Mantle features generally look okay, though I think it's unfortunate that it's basically "like a Paladin" or "like a Rogue" options. I like the idea of an inspirational Mantle, though I'm not sure it screams "Crusader" as a term. Darkhunters should probably have to use the same type of damage for their Hunt and Judgment options (I likely would've just made both necrotic, though). Ceaseless Hunter is a bit wordy, and neither of the capstones feel like "really cool new thing you can do." That may be fine, but they're basically extensions of 3rd-level features.

*And the spell list is basically "Cleric + Paladin," which is kind of meh. Not sure if it's avoidable for what you created, though.

WarrentheHero
2015-12-31, 04:04 PM
Add me to the list of someone who just doesn't really like 3/4 casting. Not saying it's imbalanced but I'm not a fan (note how you gain 5th-level spells along with an ASI at 12th level). 2/3 casting isn't any better as an option, either.
Let me just start by saying thanks for the feedback! These are all valid criticisms and I'd like to address them each in turn.
I think 3/4 casting captures the hybrid space that Inquisitor lives in fairly well. Not a full caster, but has more tools to get the job done than a half-caster like a Paladin. I do agree that it is wonky, unusual, and as far as I can tell unprecedented, but that's what Homebrew is for, yeah? As for the concern of gaining 5th-level spells at the same time as an ASI, that is immediately before two dead levels. So you do get a large power spike, but then you have a few levels to cool off. That, at least, is how I view it.


*Dead levels at 13, 14, 16, and 19 (should be an ASI here) are not good, as are features gained along with ASIs.
You're right, 16 and 19 should have ASIs. I must have forgotten them off of the table, my bad. As for 13 and 14, I understand the peril of having two consecutive dead levels, but this deficit works in tandem with the above-mentioned level 12 power spike. I do have my eye on that though, and I'm about to move into playtesting with a group and we'll see how it all turns out.


*Divine Hunter is cool.
Glad you like it.


*Inquisitor's Talent should really just be proficiency or expertise if you already have proficiency.
Good point. I'll make the change.


*Divine Flare looks *strong.* Damage comparable to a Fireball with a 1-minute Blind rider effect (should probably switch the order of how it's described, by the way)? Don't care if it is only once; I'll take that.
I can understand the concern for this, but I look at at like this: a 5th-level Wizard has access to an 8d6-spell twice a day. This is damage has the same max but a higher min damage-wise, and can do it twice per day. a 7th-level Wizard can do this with 9d6 damage. Both versions are in a larger area at a tremendously larger range, and works around corners. And all of this before an Inquisitor of a comparable level gets Divine Flare, which is once per day in every case. That said, to keep with the precedent of similar effects, it should offer a repeat save each turn. That was on oversight on my part.


*Greater Judgments (and Judgments in general, which provide a nice scaling unique "thing" for Inquisitors) is a good concept, but I think all of the judgments should improve. Might have too many options on them, and I could easily see them all sorted by class archetype (only get certain ones based on Mantle choice).
I'm glad you like the concept. The problem with making all of the Judgements improve is that it can balance issues. For example, Consecration offers a +1 to AC. As Mr.Moron pointed out, that "scales in terms of raw damage numbers because monsters get more powerful and more attacks that might miss because of it." Some of these shouldn't improve for simple scale reasons. The Judgements are supposed to offer versatility, but it shouldn' be a choice between playing a tank vs playing a blaster, etc. It should be how you want to lean towards those roles, if that makes sense.
As for sorting them by Mantles, each Mantle does offer a unique Judgement. Which, in retrospect, means Pursuit (Darkhunter's Judgement) should improve, since Penance gets an improvement.


Under that, Greater Smiting does not make sense to me. It refreshes whenever it triggers? Isn't it stronger than the Greater Destruction? I can't really figure out what it's supposed to do.
I'll look to ways it can be worded better. The idea is that when you hit with a weapon while that Judgement is active, you apply a debuff for 1d4 turns. Whenever they take radiant damage in that time, they suffer an additional 1d6 radiant damage. For consistency, I might consider adding in a necrotic option like other features. As for the refreshing, it's supposed to make it worthwhile to keep hitting the opponent. So if you hit them while the Judgement is active and they're already debuffed, they stay debuffed. For example, if you hit them and you roll a 3, they're debuffed for 3 turns. Then on your next turn (when they're down to 2 turns), if you hit them again, you roll again, and so keep up the duration. Some people might have already seen it this way, but I wanted to add in the extra clarification to make it easier to understand. I might have made it more confusing, though. I think it can survive with that being dropped off the description.


*Slayer is pretty strong, too, and a big jump in effectiveness against certain targets as well as a pretty good always-on ability. It comes really late, though. I'd consider adding the first part as part of the capstone and buffing up weapon damage earlier if you think it needs it.

*For Wrathful Avenger, I'd just have it increase the Slayer damage dice (either in size or number) rather than adding yet another die size to roll when active.
I can see this, but I feel don't want to take away any features. The problem I see with having the 20th level ability simply buff Slayer is that have of Slayer is completely situational. Granted, if you're in a 'good' campaign, most things you fight will be Evil (and vice-versa), so it's not cripplingly situational. And I must say, I like the idea of the capstone playing off of the low-level ability. In fact, many classes do this already. I can consider dropping the damage off of Slayer altogether. This reduces the total amount of dice you're using, makes Slayer more focused in what it does, and makes Wrathful Avenger more unique.


*The Mantle features generally look okay, though I think it's unfortunate that it's basically "like a Paladin" or "like a Rogue" options.
I see Inquisitor as sort of the Rogue-Bard of the divine classes. It has a lot of versatility, and can fulfill the striker role fairly well. The idea of "like a Paladin" or "like a Rogue" I think is putting it too narrow, though the class features admittedly lend themselves to that. The Mantle of the Crusader isn't supposed to emulate the Paladin so much as it is supposed to emulate the idea of an Inquisitor as part of an Inquisition, a larger group of religious warriors. In this way, the Inquisitor is a leader (think of Dragon Age: Inquisition, for example). Likewise, the Mantle of the Darkhunter isn't supposed to be a Rogue-copy so much as it is an embodiment of the hunter-characters in fiction. Think of Marvel's Blade, or Vayne from League of Legends. It's not the divine rogue, it's the guy (or gal) who stalks in the shadows to put down evil (or good, or whatever, depending on your character).


Darkhunters should probably have to use the same type of damage for their Hunt and Judgment options (I likely would've just made both necrotic, though). Ceaseless Hunter is a bit wordy
I agree about the damage options. Perhaps it was I who was overzealous with the "Radiant or Divine every option" thing. As for Ceaseless Hunter, I agree about the wordiness. I think I can refine it and take out some of the restrictions so it all makes more sense.


neither of the capstones feel like "really cool new thing you can do." That may be fine, but they're basically extensions of 3rd-level features.
I personally like the idea of capstones that go back and reference earlier abilities. It adds a sense of synergy and wholeness for me. Not everyone might see it that way, but I do.


*And the spell list is basically "Cleric + Paladin," which is kind of meh. Not sure if it's avoidable for what you created, though.
I can understand that complaint. When I made the spell lists, I wasn't looking at just the Paladin or Cleric spells. I was looking for spells that fit the theme that I could see an Inquisitor likely using in the course of their career. Given the idea of complete zealotry, most of them ended up being Cleric or Paladin spells, because those are the divine spells.

Ivellius
2016-01-01, 01:29 PM
Wanted to respond to these in detail considering how much you typed.


Let me just start by saying thanks for the feedback! These are all valid criticisms and I'd like to address them each in turn.

I think 3/4 casting captures the hybrid space that Inquisitor lives in fairly well. Not a full caster, but has more tools to get the job done than a half-caster like a Paladin. I do agree that it is wonky, unusual, and as far as I can tell unprecedented, but that's what Homebrew is for, yeah? As for the concern of gaining 5th-level spells at the same time as an ASI, that is immediately before two dead levels. So you do get a large power spike, but then you have a few levels to cool off. That, at least, is how I view it.

Homebrew can definitely be a tool for exploring these kind of things, but I'm just not convinced this a place that needs exploration. I think multi-classing Paladin / Cleric, for example, would get very close to what this class is trying to do and has much of the same flavor / spell list. Judgments probably need to be the thing explored and focused if this warrants further work, as they're the primary unique thing besides the 3/4 casting.

Gaining stuff at the same time as ASIs also makes for good breakpoints for multi-classing (which is admittedly optional, but if you're using homebrew you'll probably be fine using an official variant) and will likely cause a character to be stronger than other characters of a comparable level. I'd be more convinced of the logic of dead levels *before* getting a big boost, but either way I'd stay away from it.


I can understand the concern for this, but I look at at like this: a 5th-level Wizard has access to an 8d6-spell twice a day. This is damage has the same max but a higher min damage-wise, and can do it twice per day. a 7th-level Wizard can do this with 9d6 damage. Both versions are in a larger area at a tremendously larger range, and works around corners. And all of this before an Inquisitor of a comparable level gets Divine Flare, which is once per day in every case. That said, to keep with the precedent of similar effects, it should offer a repeat save each turn. That was on oversight on my part.

Yeah, but the Blind rider makes it quite a bit better, which isn't really considered in this part of the analysis. It's not *just* the damage, obviously. Not sure exactly what the best comparison is, but maybe something like Hypnotic Pattern crossed with Fireball (as an approximation) is what makes it so strong.


Judgments

Still would feel much better for all judgments to improve or scale (also, be consistent with "judgment" v. "judgement" spelling); an extra +1 AC for Consecration at 10th level isn't going to break the game. I understand that each mantle has one unique judgment, but it would make sense for more of them to be unique to the different mantles. The Smiting improvement is going to be better than the Destruction judgment in basically any situation as you have it, which was my primary point, but the wording is a bit wonky.


I can see this, but I feel don't want to take away any features. The problem I see with having the 20th level ability simply buff Slayer is that have of Slayer is completely situational. Granted, if you're in a 'good' campaign, most things you fight will be Evil (and vice-versa), so it's not cripplingly situational. And I must say, I like the idea of the capstone playing off of the low-level ability. In fact, many classes do this already. I can consider dropping the damage off of Slayer altogether. This reduces the total amount of dice you're using, makes Slayer more focused in what it does, and makes Wrathful Avenger more unique.

Slayer is partially situational, but basing it on alignment means it's going to have a lot of application--more so than even a single form of damage resistance, I'd say. I think it could do well with having the features spread out more was my point--the class probably needs more damage to regular attacks anyway.


I see Inquisitor as sort of the Rogue-Bard of the divine classes. It has a lot of versatility, and can fulfill the striker role fairly well. The idea of "like a Paladin" or "like a Rogue" I think is putting it too narrow, though the class features admittedly lend themselves to that. The Mantle of the Crusader isn't supposed to emulate the Paladin so much as it is supposed to emulate the idea of an Inquisitor as part of an Inquisition, a larger group of religious warriors. In this way, the Inquisitor is a leader (think of Dragon Age: Inquisition, for example). Likewise, the Mantle of the Darkhunter isn't supposed to be a Rogue-copy so much as it is an embodiment of the hunter-characters in fiction. Think of Marvel's Blade, or Vayne from League of Legends. It's not the divine rogue, it's the guy (or gal) who stalks in the shadows to put down evil (or good, or whatever, depending on your character).

Obviously the labels sell the Mantles a bit short, but "I get something like Paladin's Smite and inspirational stuff" and "I get something like Sneak Attack and sneaky stuff" mean that the feel is pretty similar. Going back to what I had said earlier about multi-classing, a Paladin / Light Cleric is going to be close to a Crusader Inquisitor, while a Paladin / Trickery Cleric is going to feel close to the Darkhunter Inquisitor. The mechanics are going to be a bit different, sure, but that could be taken care of with a homebrewed subclass option for one class or the other.


I personally like the idea of capstones that go back and reference earlier abilities. It adds a sense of synergy and wholeness for me. Not everyone might see it that way, but I do.

It's fine to have class or subclass capstones connect with earlier abilities, but I just didn't think the subclass capstones were exciting enough. Transmuter Wizard is a good example: it uses the philosopher's stone you create at an earlier level but to do some really awesome things you couldn't do before. It's a vague comment and doesn't offer a lot of advice for changing it, but that's my reaction to what you currently have.