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Generic PC
2007-06-11, 05:47 PM
ok, so my Dm killed my character... a wizard, with an AMF, then rolled a 100 on his d% to reincarnate me. The AMF was a Rod of Wonder effect apparently, though we never found said rod... So, flipping through the MM, he tells me to choose a page at random. I came up with a dragon page, so i chose another one, and ended up a Janni. now, it has an LA of +5, but gets 6 outsider levels. so, do i actually get an extra level, of Outsider, or do i lose 6 levels of Wizard, or do i lose 11 levels of wizard? also, any ideas for how i could use Janni to my benefit, as my DM says i can change my class levels now too. i have stats of: Str 18 Dex 26 Con 16 Int 22 Wis 14 Cha 20. Now, if this thread is in the wrong place, move it... i couldnt decide if i should put my query in the char builder thread, and a forum search revealed alot of threads, most about LA of this race, or that race, etc. So, using my as of yet, unplaced Skill points, can i get a relativly optimized class (or PrC i suppose...) so that i am effective when caught in another AMF? Arcane Spellcasting would be liked, and i am level 13.
-Confused about LA

Shoyliguad
2007-06-11, 05:51 PM
In order to have the full abilities of a creature with a la you have to take the la and the class levels. Theres alot about it in savage speices. If your dm is reincarnating you, you would have the la and your wizard class levels but you would have to check ss for your abilities I guess. Hmmm never heard of that happening before...

Generic PC
2007-06-11, 06:07 PM
Nor have i, which is why i asked the question, being relativly new as a player, same as my DM, and everyone in our party. luckily, no one has discovered the WotC CO boards yet.

Damionte
2007-06-11, 06:13 PM
I'd have just had you roll again.

Amiria
2007-06-11, 06:15 PM
You lose a level from Reincarnation. You get all those Outsider HD and the LA in addition to your wizard levels. You won't level up anytime soon since you have to wait for your party to catch up (you are now 11 (no, 10 levels since you lost one as you died) levels ahead of your party.

Not good, a caster doesn't want to have LA and racial hit dice. You should better talk again with your DM to take one of the more standard options for Reincarnation.

Generic PC
2007-06-11, 06:32 PM
So i am now level... 22? great... not. I basically gather Exp, or probably Crafting...till everyone else catches up? maybe ill just reroll...

Skjaldbakka
2007-06-11, 06:42 PM
How can you reincarnate as an outsider. This shoudln't be possible, and you should re-roll. Unless your DM is using an alternate cosmology, outsiders lack the dichotomy of body and soul that most other creatures have. Basically- Outsiders form their body from their soul, other creatures have a soul that enters a body.

EDIt- in short, their aren't outsiders waiting for souls

Fhaolan
2007-06-11, 06:51 PM
Flipping randomly through the MM for a Reincarnate spell is not recommended, for exactly this reason. :)

In the case of a creature with HD and LA, I would recommend racial levels, as per Savage Species (a few other books had similar stuff in them). That way you can 'grow' into the new race and not suddenly jump a huge number of levels ahead of the rest of the party.

Generic PC
2007-06-11, 07:05 PM
So, got any ideas for Classes i could take? The DM just emailed me and said that i still gain levels, he just took away all my levels in wizard. I am now a level 7 something. any ideas what that something could be? for reference, a Jann's favored class is Rogue.

DreadArchon
2007-06-11, 07:23 PM
So, got any ideas for Classes i could take? The DM just emailed me and said that i still gain levels, he just took away all my levels in wizard. I am now a level 7 something. any ideas what that something could be? for reference, a Jann's favored class is Rogue.
What, he didn't let you stay Epic? :smallbiggrin: Anyway, you should be level 11 now, not 7.

...Huh. Actually, looking at it, Janni aren't that bad. With 11 levels before gaining your classes, and with those stats, I'd say that you should try for something that gets most of its nice abilities up front. Something that can use all those stats would be nice, too.

Whether your DM lets you reassign your abilities at all factors in, but either way, your choices will probably be similar. (If I did something this crazy as a DM... No, wait. Let me rephrase: When my players pull these sorts of things on me, I let them rebuild from the ground up in regards to stats, feats, etc., but you'll have to check with your DM here.)

Hmmm, I'm thinking that a Paladin of Freedom, going for a sort of knight errant thingy could be fun. You wouldn't have to worry much about stats other than Str because you get them as bonuses, you're not losing much in regards to spellcasting, and you benefit from every stat. You'll also have downright crazy saves.

Actually, Monk would be a good choice too, for similar reasons. The biggest problem I see with Monk is the lower BAB (Paladin's full BAB helps to compensate for missing five levels), but your excellent Str might mitigate that some.

Me, I'd probably end up doing a Monk/Paladin, if you can handle the multiclass issues. If not, probably just Monk.

Justyn
2007-06-11, 08:07 PM
Reincarnate does not say weither of not it gives racial Hit Dice (In other words: it's the DM's choice), and it DOES say clear as day that you ratain all class features; so just ask if you can gain only the level adjustment, no racial hit dice, making you up to a level 13 Jann Wizard with an ECL of 18.

Matthew
2007-06-11, 08:58 PM
So, was your Wizard annoying the DM or something?

Shoyliguad
2007-06-11, 09:07 PM
If it was annoying, you usually don't make him more powerful... anyway this is one of those things that the rules are very grey since most people don't care to get their fingers dirty in it for just this reason and just say "umm yeah, the rod resurects you, you are now a living being in your old body and lets keep the adventure going"

Generic PC
2007-06-11, 09:32 PM
No. The BBEG had a Contingency that if he died, a AMF would be centered around his body. Most of us were pretty wounded, and then, turns out the BBEG was load bearing. yup, the cave started falling on us. everyone cept the Dwarven Deepwarden(... go figure) got out, but a Stalactite landed on me 3 feet away from the cave entrance, apparently. so, i pulled myself off, with help, and got hit by another. Knocking me unconcious (-8) i was then carried to the entrance, and since the Cleric was out of spells and i wasnt stabilized, i died. go figure that out of 5 people, the DM rolled my character got hit twice.

Anyway, where is Paladin of Freedom? i am actually CG, so i cant be a monk. though PoF seems like it would be CG. i think Druid would be nice, for Wildshape... Maybe Druid 5, PrC 1?

EDIT: Also, i am a level 6 something, because 6 levels of Outsider, and 1 level loss.

Prustan
2007-06-11, 09:53 PM
Can't be a Druid either - they have be Neutral in at least one regard.

Generic PC
2007-06-11, 10:51 PM
yes, i suppose not... but i could just grab the intelligent amulet we found which makes you immediately CN... Also, looking at my Party, we need a good Arcanist (Sorc? Wiz->Loremaster), or something like a Ranger, cause our DM loves the survival skill...

Matthew
2007-06-11, 11:10 PM
No. The BBEG had a Contingency that if he died, a AMF would be centered around his body. Most of us were pretty wounded, and then, turns out the BBEG was load bearing. yup, the cave started falling on us. everyone cept the Dwarven Deepwarden(... go figure) got out, but a Stalactite landed on me 3 feet away from the cave entrance, apparently. so, i pulled myself off, with help, and got hit by another. Knocking me unconcious (-8) i was then carried to the entrance, and since the Cleric was out of spells and i wasnt stabilized, i died. go figure that out of 5 people, the DM rolled my character got hit twice.
Bummer. Why didn't the Cleric make a Heal Check?

Callix
2007-06-12, 02:49 AM
I don't think reincarnate can do anything extraplanar. The Reincarnate description actually says "DM's Choice" on a 100, so blame them. The way I read the description, you don't get racial hit die, just physical ability modifiers. Not even sure if you get su/sp abilities. Basically, you took the risk of turning into a kobold. You got a jann (by whatever means). Why should you be penalised for it?

DreadArchon
2007-06-12, 10:16 AM
After looking again, I agree with everyone else. No racial hit dice, probably no weird abilities, retain Wizard levels. Not sure what to do about the ECL, but that's your DM's problem.

Stephen_E
2007-06-12, 05:52 PM
OK. I agree with everyone else how your DM should handle this, but if he maintains you lose most of your Wizard levels, and if you want to continue playing an Arcanist, I'd go Monk, Enlightened Fist (Comp Arcane) and take the feat Ascetic mage (comp Advent). You switch to been a Sorceror, rather than a Wizard, but get to use your Charisma, rather than Wis for all Monk class abilities, multiclass freely between Monk/Wiz, Count Sorceror levs for AC improvement, and as a free action may sacrifice a spell to add the spells level to your dam and att for 1 round.

The Monk means build means you get to use your high Str/Dex/Con to full advantage, and gets a good class skill set to choose from (as does Enlightened Fist). Enlightened Fist gets to deliver a touch spell with their standard unarmed attack, as a free action. i.e. They cast a touch range spell as a free action and hit somone, with both the touch spell, and the unarmed strike (Chill Touch been one of the very effective low level spells for this).

The Bizzarre thing is that the way your GM is handling this is that you've gone back to character Gen, but with your Race fixed as Janni, and using your old stats!?

Stephen

Generic PC
2007-06-12, 06:54 PM
As well as my old Languages. Which included nearly every language in the PHB...
however, i cannot be a Monk, because i am CG. maybe i should work on becoming straight LN... just so i can do this... I really want a Spellcasting Class, but that basically leaves me with Sorc/Wiz, as my Wis isnt high enough, comparatively. So, desicions between Variants or something? Maybe state the books so i can find them and give conclusive proof they exist?

Rasumichin
2007-06-13, 02:10 AM
Anyway, where is Paladin of Freedom?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny

Bagera
2007-06-13, 10:54 AM
Maybe you could run an Artificer.

OzymandiasVolt
2007-06-13, 11:41 AM
Your DM messed up. He let you take an invalid race which was chosen by chance, and he disregarded an important rule when he took away your Wizard levels.

LotharBot
2007-06-13, 12:28 PM
Your DM should handle this by picking a more appropriate race for you. Any of the races on the reincarnate list, or any of the races in the DMG section on monster races (with a low LA), could be acceptable.

Having you lose your class levels and replace them with an entirely different type of character is a mistake. Reincarnate is supposed to let you retain your character, not make you roll up a new (and exotic) one.

Person_Man
2007-06-13, 12:35 PM
Anywho, this is an obvious but easily correctable screwup. Here's a list (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=697653) of non LA races. Copy and paste it into Excel, number it, and roll again in front of your DM. Problem solved.

Kurobara
2007-06-13, 01:38 PM
Actually, there's two problems even without the ECL issue with reincarnating into what you did:

1) The spell can't be used on outsiders, so it would make sense that it also can't turn you into one. This is more a matter of RAI than RAW though, but for what it's worth, I'm drawing the conclusion from:

Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be reincarnated.

2) More importantly, reincarnate can't change your creature type. Humanoids can only reincarnate into humanoids. While the table entry for a roll of 100 does say "DM's choice", the actual spell text implies that even that must still be of the same type:

For a humanoid creature, the new incarnation is determined using the following table. For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created.

Both quotes are from the SRD entry for the reincarnate spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm).

Stephen_E
2007-06-13, 09:35 PM
While Janni are Elementals and Outsiders, it should be noted that they're elementals that naturally reside on "earth" and can't actually survive for extended periods on the elemental planes. There is also a fair bit of rulings that indicate that Outsiders that naturally reside on a world can be brought back to life by all the spells that don't normally work on Outsiders.

In short the Janni IS a valid choice of race, AND can probably be Reincarnated, Raised or Russurected.

If you go back to earlier version of the Reincarnate spell I think it's fairly clear that you CAN be Reincarnated into a type different than your birthtype. The RAI of the changed table would seem to have a lot more to do with playability rather than specific restrictions. Having your Sorceror Reincarnated as a Hawk tended to mean back to Char Gen.

Losing Wizard levels gained, aside from the level lost for been Reincarnated, and been able to rechoose class levels IS clearly against the rules of the Reincarnate spell, but so long as you're doing both it is actually balanced. The GM is simply sending you back to Char Gen with a pre-chosen monster race, and the same Stats as your previous PC.

Stephen

Kurobara
2007-06-13, 09:46 PM
While Janni are Elementals and Outsiders, it should be noted that they're elementals that naturally reside on "earth" and can't actually survive for extended periods on the elemental planes. There is also a fair bit of rulings that indicate that Outsiders that naturally reside on a world can be brought back to life by all the spells that don't normally work on Outsiders.

In short the Janni IS a valid choice of race, AND can probably be Reincarnated, Raised or Russurected.

*headdesk* OK, forgetting about Outsider (Native) was a brainfart on my part. That and not really being familiar with the Janni specifically.

I still maintain that the RAI for at least the 3.5 Reincarnate is same-type only, though. But we can agree to disagree, I suppose?

Generic PC
2007-06-13, 10:17 PM
So, i still dont know what to do with my levels. Paladin of Freedom is apparently overpowered, according to my DM, and my alignment is CG, so i cant be monk. that basically takes every idea for a class out of this thread, and i am wracked by indecision. Please note that even if i dont go wizard, i have a 13 level wizards spell book, which is going to complete waste. note it is a BBB.

kpenguin
2007-06-13, 11:11 PM
Your DM should have just stuck with the dragon and ran with it. That would be so much more interesting. Especially since dragons don't have a specified LA.

Generic PC
2007-06-13, 11:37 PM
Actually, it didnt occur to me that i had picked a Dragon, as i didnt see the page. he told me afterwards, and i see no reason to suspect he was lying, especially with the fact someone was standing behind, and affirmed it for me.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-06-14, 01:16 AM
You get it all but getting up to that next level +5 LA will be expensive experience wise.

DreadArchon
2007-06-14, 01:56 AM
Paladins are overpowered? Whoa. That's... Wow. :smalleek:

Also, Wizard spellbooks are crazy expensive if sold.