Giant's Paladin blues Miko quote [spoilers]

[theKOT]

I already had the Linear Guild and Xykon, and was soon to introduce Miko as an antagonist who would be around on and off for the rest of the OOTS storyline.
There, now there is no more ambiguity. That's word for word.

This kinda bums me out. I liked this sendoff and the elimination of at least one recurring villain. Maybe there will be some creative way of dealing with this, but I hope the Giant changed his mind.

[dish]

That's very interesting. Thank you. (I don't yet have a copy of the book.)

I feel that dramatically it would be hard to bring her back after such an awesome death. But why would Soon spend three panels explaining redemption in such detail if there was no possible chance that Miko could work towards it in the future?

[Oxymoron]

The Giant killed Miko to shut us up! Remeber how much flaming Roy got for being "mean" to Elan before he died? And when he died everyone (except some haters) felt sorry for him even though he would most likely come back.

Miko "needed" to die, at least temporarily (maybe permanent?) so that people could reflect more over her character and maybe not hate her so much. (I`m not saying it will actually work).

[Emperor Ing]

:smallbiggrin: It didnt! :smallbiggrin:

Im rejoicing the world over man!

[rosebud]

Miko "needed" to die, at least temporarily (maybe permanent?) so that people could reflect more over her character and maybe not hate her so much.No.... Miko needed to become aware, something she only did too late.

What I don't understand is why the gods gave her no enlightenment. She asked for it, prayed for it, yet had no guidance, no correction until it was too late. That's why some hated her -- she was merely a parody of a character by that point and merely a tool of The Plot. When she became a character again and people could empathize with her, she had no time left.

[Senex]

Since Miko was destined to be around until the end of the OotS storyline, and she's dead now, this can only mean that the storyline is about to end soon. :smallbiggrin:

[Post]

Or the Giant Changed his mind?

[Snake-Aes]

No.... Miko needed to become aware, something she only did too late.

What I don't understand is why the gods gave her no enlightenment. She asked for it, prayed for it, yet had no guidance, no correction until it was too late. That's why some hated her -- she was merely a parody of a character by that point and merely a tool of The Plot. When she became a character again and people could empathize with her, she had no time left.

Maybe they did. She wasn't exactly paying attention to the right signs, was she? She does know what she has to do, and her last words make me feel she'd embrace atonement and paladinhood just to see windstriker again if it was needed.

[TreeHugger42]

The LASFS has a saying: Death Will Not Release You! Same thing applies here, obviously. Miko is dead but not gone! I think she has her own path to follow before she interacts with the OOTS again. I'm looking forward to that.

I suspect she has not gotten an answer to her prayers for enlightenment because that's not what she wanted -- she wanted to be told she was right. One might hope that being killed might change her perspective, but no; she shows no reaction to Soon telling her she has seriously screwed up once again, and that she showed no signs that she is open to change. It would be interesting to see a Miko that was truly changed, but then again, maybe not. Would she be as interesting and important a character if she did repent and change her ways? We may yet see. She may be back in a different form.

Too bad her current form got blown in half. She was freakin' hot! Yeah, I know, stick figure; but she has a lot of personality!

[slayerx]

Ya, i guess there is possibility in Miko coming back for whatever reason...
and thinking about it, there's something i like about what Soon said before she died... "Perhaps with more time you could have found redemption... or perhaps not... redemption isn't for everybody"... something like that...
Meaning if Miko does comeback, we have no foreshadowing as to whether or not she will find redemption or just continue into a downward spiral... some might think that dying would change her, but the last part of the quote makes you wonder how long that will last.


Or the Giant Changed his mind?
ya, that's not impossible... depends on how far ahead the giant has planned the story... if it's loose, then it would probably be easy for him to write out a character... though if it is very well planned, the he would have some trouble changing his mind, especially if Miko had an important role to play


She may be back in a different form.
She will become a ghost with "unfinished buisiness" and she will possess Mr.Scruffy... though maybe Belkar would be funnier =P

[pendell]

This is D&D ... Miko could still be resurrected or true resurrected.

Or she could continue around as a ghost a la eugene.

Or she could come back as an undead.

Or *giggle* A druid could cast reincarnate. Perhaps she would be back as a Dire Hamster?

*Laughs uncontrollably*

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[NeonRonin]

I shudder to think of a (resurrected) Roy wandering the countryside with TWO obsessive ghosts bugging him, depriving him from sleep.

Oh, wait, when he was alive he wasn't sleeping much anyway. :smalltongue:

[Firestar27]

What I think the Giant meant was that although she is dead, she will still be able to interact. Maybe talk to Roy in the Celestial Realm. They both were (debatably) Lawful Good, and therefore, go to the same plane. Soon seemed to confirm that that she would go to the Celestial Realm and we know that Roy is LG and that's where he would go. Maybe she will see that Roy isn't evil by seeing that he went to the Celestial Realm. Or maybe she guessed this would happen. I don't think that she thought that Roy was evil by alignment, rather, he just defended Belkar who is evil, and that makes it ok to attack Roy to get to Belkar. That depends whether she still blames Roy for what happened to Azure City or not.

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

This is D&D ... Miko could still be resurrected or true resurrected. While I'm not going to refute any of your other possibilities, the problem with those spells is that even the crappiest of them all, Raise Dead, requires 5,000 gp worth of diamonds to be cast (not to mention it's disqualified anyway unless whoever has it cast also knows a decent surgeon), with the ones you named costing at least double. Who is there that would actually shell out that kind of money to res Miko? As far as we know Windstriker was pretty much her only friend in the world by the time she died. The only person I can think of that could conceivably have any motivation at all to resurrect her is Belkar of all people, but even then only so he could have the pleasure of killing her himself, and I'm not sure he'd be willing to cough up that much no matter how good it would feel.

[Elliot Kane]

The LASFS has a saying: Death Will Not Release You! Same thing applies here, obviously. Miko is dead but not gone! I think she has her own path to follow before she interacts with the OOTS again. I'm looking forward to that.

I suspect she has not gotten an answer to her prayers for enlightenment because that's not what she wanted -- she wanted to be told she was right. One might hope that being killed might change her perspective, but no; she shows no reaction to Soon telling her she has seriously screwed up once again, and that she showed no signs that she is open to change. It would be interesting to see a Miko that was truly changed, but then again, maybe not. Would she be as interesting and important a character if she did repent and change her ways? We may yet see. She may be back in a different form.

I think you may be right, Tree Hugger. I certainly hope so. I like Miko. She's one of the more interesting characters in the story, to me.

[VanBuren]

While I'm not going to refute any of your other possibilities, the problem with those spells is that even the crappiest of them all, Raise Dead, requires 5,000 gp worth of diamonds to be cast (not to mention it's disqualified anyway unless whoever has it cast also knows a decent surgeon), with the ones you named costing at least double. Who is there that would actually shell out that kind of money to res Miko? As far as we know Windstriker was pretty much her only friend in the world by the time she died. The only person I can think of that could conceivably have any motivation at all to resurrect her is Belkar of all people, but even then only so he could have the pleasure of killing her himself, and I'm not sure he'd be willing to cough up that much no matter how good it would feel.

Well, assuming that Roy and Miko are both LG, then they'd end up in the same place. Since Miko seems to have come to grips with her faults--a little, anyway--and since there would be no alternative explanation for Roy's presence, I imagine the two might at least start to patch up their relationship.

What I'm getting at, is that maybe Roy would be sympathetic enough to try and Resurrect her when he returns to life just so she can have her shot at redemption?

[rosebud]

Who is there that would actually shell out that kind of money to res Miko?Hinjo. Only two people know what happened in the throne room. That's probably worth a small payment for a lord to discover.

[Mawhrin Skel]

Perhaps Miko could be animated as an intelligent undead (e.g. by Tsukiko). This would allow her to continue an important plot role without cheapening her death.


Hinjo. Only two people know what happened in the throne room. That's probably worth a small payment for a lord to discover.
Have a cleric cast Speak With Dead?

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Hinjo. Only two people know what happened in the throne room. That's probably worth a small payment for a lord to discover.

Thats what Speak with Dead is for. He can get all the info he wants from her without shelling out.

[EvilElitest]

No.... Miko needed to become aware, something she only did too late.

What I don't understand is why the gods gave her no enlightenment. She asked for it, prayed for it, yet had no guidance, no correction until it was too late. That's why some hated her -- she was merely a parody of a character by that point and merely a tool of The Plot. When she became a character again and people could empathize with her, she had no time left.

The Gods didn't give her englightment because she had strayed, she has to realize her own errors to be redeemed.
from,
EE

[Aquillion]

What I don't understand is why the gods gave her no enlightenment. She asked for it, prayed for it, yet had no guidance, no correction until it was too late. That's why some hated her -- she was merely a parody of a character by that point and merely a tool of The Plot. When she became a character again and people could empathize with her, she had no time left.This was sort of answered by the way they reacted to Thor helping Durkon... They don't seem to like interference in the human world much. They took away Miko's paladinhood, yes, but that was practically required (by RAW, no less). Beyond essential things like that, I don't think they interfere much one way or the other... they probably have a hands-off philosophy.

Now, if she'd had Thor for a god, he'd have set her straight right quick, probably with a few light hammer-blows to the head until she came to her senses. :smallbiggrin:


Hinjo. Only two people know what happened in the throne room. That's probably worth a small payment for a lord to discover.But at the moment, Hinjo doesn't know she knows, and the only way he'd find out is if he already talked to O-Chul.

[Renegade Paladin]

Thats what Speak with Dead is for. He can get all the info he wants from her without shelling out.
Not quite. Speak with dead is an imprecise spell at best. You tend to get monosyllabic answers and - this is the important part - those answers are less and less complete and accurate in proportion to how much of the body is intact. They'd get cryptic answers at the very most.

[Ladorak]

'Parhaps if you had more time... but then again, parhaps not.'

Sound to me like there was a plan for Miko that got cut short due to the forums... Which annoys me a bit but nevermind.

[Gez]

Hinjo. Only two people know what happened in the throne room. That's probably worth a small payment for a lord to discover.

"Small payment" is a strange concept for the lord of a city that has been invaded, pillaged, and torched; especially when the building that, presumably, hosted the treasure room has been "explodiatated" by the destruction of a dimensional seal.

Azure City is ruined. That word has a financial meaning too. Guess why. :smallwink:

[asland32]

There's always the option of her returning as a Death Knight or other some such "unrequieted" undead.

:smallyuk:

[heroe_de_leyenda]

Maybe they did. She wasn't exactly paying attention to the right signs, was she? She does know what she has to do, and her last words make me feel she'd embrace atonement and paladinhood just to see windstriker again if it was needed.

She had lost conection to the 12 gods because of her sins. That's why her prayer didn't work. It takes you to be humble and accept you're wrong to reconciliate with divinity. She was wrong since she stored all that hatred and lust for vengance against the OOTS, that's why she misunderstood the things that happed, blinded by the desire to justify her hate.

[Aquillion]

There's always the option of her returning as a Death Knight or other some such "unrequieted" undead.

:smallyuk:Her death doesn't really support that, though. She didn't seem very unrequited to me.

[Renegade Paladin]

Her death doesn't really support that, though. She didn't seem very unrequited to me.
un·re·quit·ed
Pronunciation: "&n-ri-'kwI-t&d
Function: adjective
: not requited : not reciprocated or returned in kind <unrequited love> (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=unrequited)

Tell me again, how can a person be unrequited? At least know what the word means before you use it.

[jmucchiello]

Sound to me like there was a plan for Miko that got cut short due to the forums... Which annoys me a bit but nevermind.
I wouldn't blame the forums too much. Rich states in No Cures that originally the plan for Miko was for her to be a very flirtatious kind of character. As he developed her further that idea had to fall by the wayside. So even if he planned more for her later, he may have decided that there wasn't enough payoff in keeping her around.

[Aquillion]

un·re·quit·ed
Pronunciation: "&n-ri-'kwI-t&d
Function: adjective
: not requited : not reciprocated or returned in kind <unrequited love> (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=unrequited)

Tell me again, how can a person be unrequited? At least know what the word means before you use it."Unrequited dead" is a special usage of the word to refer to a class of undead who continue past death as a result of unrequited desires. Hence, to say that someone is "not very unrequited" in that context is an informal way to say that they are far from being an unrequited dead.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!

[Grey Watcher]

I'm going to chip in and agree that the Giant's probably changed his mind. As I see it, Miko's lived out her usefulness, plot-wise, character-wise, and meta-story commentary-wise.

Plot-wise: Miko was attached to the Sapphire Guard. With the gate destroyed and only O-Chul and Hinjo surviving, Miko only had two plot ways to go: Seeking redemption, which would require a major shift in her character, since she's already rejected it two or three times, or seeking vengeance (in her mind "justice") against Roy, Belkar, and the Order of the Stick. The former is very plot intensive, because it goes against her basic nature. While it would make for better storytelling, it's not germaine to the Order, the Gates, Xykon, or... well, anything. Sure Miko might have had an amazing redemption story, but this is The Order of the Stick, not Zealot: The Life and Times of Miko Miyazaki (whee literature references!). As for going the road of vengance, we've already got someone who's raison d'etre is overblown plots for petty revenge against a protagonist: Nale. A vengeful Miko doesn't serve any purpose that Nale isn't already serving, and she's got the handicap of being less creative, intelligent, subtle, and deceptive. Nale can hatch complicated plots and schemes to keep his subsequent appearences fresh. Miko would just charge out of the woodwork periodically with swords drawn and need to be beaten back. She'd essentially be a recurring random encounter. Not much fun, is it?

Character-wise: Miko pursuing the revenge plot would've involved no growth or development. She'd just go on, with blinders on spouting "Justice!" when she means revenge. As for a redemptive story for Miko, see above.

Meta-story: Miko was intended as a satire of a zealot, and a particular archetype of player character. She did it so beautifully that she earned a lot of the anger we feel towards such people in general. Really, what more could she add to that? Like encounters with the real thing, she would only grow tiresome without some new tricks. If she were redeemed, she would really need some new focus, since she wouldn't be the zealot we all came to love or hate. It'd require the author, the other characters, herself, and all of us readers to reevaluate her and... well, that brings me back to the redemption discussion in part I.

So, there's my 2 cp.

[Randalf]

Hinjo. Only two people know what happened in the throne room. That's probably worth a small payment for a lord to discover.

Don't see it happening. Why should Hinjo resurrect Miko rather then any of the other Paladins who died in the throne room? If O-Chul is basically in one piece there have to be a few more bodies lying around outside of the frame. Much as I like Miko, if I was Hinjo and I only had enough money for one or two resurrections I'd spend them on some of the loyal Sapphire Guardsmen who died protecting the gate, not the fallen regicide who escaped from her cell after killing my uncle.

[InfernusTribble]

Pretty sure she's dead, dead myself

Look at it this way - if Roy gets the ressurect it would cheapen his death; but not if another major character buys the farm on a permanent level

On the other hand the giant is such a superb and original storyteller that I wouldn't call this one either way even if I was set next to his personal muse, while she was explaining plot points to me with diagrams and the future script and cartoons in her hands

[pendell]

While I'm not going to refute any of your other possibilities, the problem with those spells is that even the crappiest of them all, Raise Dead, requires 5,000 gp worth of diamonds to be cast (not to mention it's disqualified anyway unless whoever has it cast also knows a decent surgeon), with the ones you named costing at least double. Who is there that would actually shell out that kind of money to res Miko? As far as we know Windstriker was pretty much her only friend in the world by the time she died. The only person I can think of that could conceivably have any motivation at all to resurrect her is Belkar of all people, but even then only so he could have the pleasure of killing her himself, and I'm not sure he'd be willing to cough up that much no matter how good it would feel.


Here's another thought.

Assuming that someone kicked in the diamonds ... it still requires that a soul be willing to return, and would Miko want to?

No, if she's in lawful good paradise and happy there.

Yes, if she wants to regain her paladinhood and can only do it in life. A second chance.

THAT has potential ... done right.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[factotum]

There is a possibility here that Miko could be seen as a hero for destroying the gate. We know it wasn't necessary, but the only person who can tell anyone what happened in the throne room is O-Chul. He was facing away from Soon and Xykon and therefore couldn't see that Soon had the lich on the ropes and was readying for a coup de grace--he might have heard Soon telling Miko not to destroy the gate, but he wouldn't know WHY Soon said that.

Given that, there may well be enough doubt to go for the resurrect, since Miko is unquestionably the most powerful member of the Guard even without her Paladin powers (she royally kicked Hinjo's butt, and he's supposed to be the second most powerful). Someone that powerful could be useful.