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deathbymanga
2015-12-31, 11:04 PM
Hmm, I was swimming through Pathfinder's archives and came across the Fetchling race, a race of people born in or converted by the Shadowfell and considering in my setting the Shadow is a very powerful force that's slowly absorbing the material plane, having a race of people to represent this realm is a very good idea. However, a lot of the powers the Fetchling has I'm not sure are balanced enough to work with 5e.

Let's deconstruct what they have:
Stats: +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom
This already poses a problem since we only have 2 positive stats and they are even. Do we make it a +2 Dex +1 Cha, a +2 Cha +1 Dex, or +2 X +1Dex/Cha
Type: Outsider(Native)
I feel this can best be swapped with the Feyness of an Elf or a Warforged's Inorganic Body where they don't need to worry about sustinance as much and sleep less often than other races
Size: Medium
No problem
Speed: 30
Again, no problem so far
Languages: Common
Maybe add some native Shadow Language also or something

Shadow Blending: Attacks against a fetchling in dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This ability does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance.
I think this might work like a Dwarf's Stonecutting or a Gnome's Artificer's Lore, where the race might have Expertise when making a Stealth check, but only when in Dim or Darker Lighting
Shadow Resistance: Fetchlings have cold resistance 5 and electricity resistance 5.
This is a big problem since Resistance plays a much bigger role than it did before. You typically either have it or you don't. Heck, Dragonborn just have Resistance and a Breath Weapon really when you think about it. Either Cold or Lightning Resistance would be a powerful thing. I'd be more likely to throw them Cold Resistance, but still, a big power.

Skilled: Fetchlings have a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (planes) and Stealth checks.
Again, like with resistance, having skills is a very tough thing to balance. It doesn't help that Knowledge(Planes) doesn't even exist in 5e anymore (last I checked), so I feel this isn't even worth considering.

Spell-Like Abilities: A fetchling can use disguise self once per day as a spell-like ability. He can assume the form of any humanoid creature. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice. When a fetchling reaches 9th level in any combination of classes, he gains shadow walk (self only) as a spell-like ability usable once per day as a spell-like ability. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice. When a fetchling reaches 13th level in any combination of classes, he gains plane shift (self only, to the Shadow Plane or the Material Plane only) usable once per day as a spell-like ability. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice.
Disguise Self, Shadow Walk, and Plane Shift. Shadow Walk is pretty much reserved to Shadow Monks and Shadow Sorcerers. It could be replaced with Misty Step, but I'm reserved on doing that since I've got Eladrin in this setting already. Disguise Self may be a 1st level spell, So I have less issues with this, but it might be best to give this as a Racial Archetype. And a lesser Plane Shift? I get that these are higher level spell-like abilities, but I don't think giving Plane Shift as a Racial power works at all really.

Darkvision: 60ft color
I don't see any problems here
Low-Light Vision: Twice as Far as humans
In 5e I think Low-Light is just double Darkvision right?

And then there's the Ever Popular in Pathfinder, Alternate Racial Traits
Emissary: Roll Twice for Bluff and Diplomacy checks. Replaces Shadow Blending
So, Advantage on Persuasion and Deception checks, Might be balanced to give to Advantages in exchange for a situation Expertise, thoughts?
Gloom Shimmer: Replace Shadow Walk with Displacement
I think this might be the better option anyway and could replace Shadow Walk and Plane Shift. Displacement could be replaced with Blink, but send the person to the Shadowfell instead of the Etherial Plane. Would just need a Cantrip and you effective have a Cantrip/1st/3rd spell power that a lot of races get.
Shadow Agent: +2 Bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy. Replaces Skilled
Like I said before with Skilled
Shadow Magic: +1 bonus on the DC of any Illusion(Shadow) spell cast. Replaces Skilled.
Interesting idea, might work. not sure.
Subtle Manipulator: Replaces Disguise Self with Memory Lapse
Could instead be used to give the race the Friend Cantrip?
World Walker: Replaces a +2 on Knowledge(Planes) with a +1 in Knowledge(Nature) and Knowledge(Local)
at least these are skills that exist in 5e, but the bonus is even less.

So, What I'm thinking of is this
Stats: +1 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 30ft
Outsider: [something, i don't know]
Shadowspirit: Whenever you make a Dexterity(Stealth) check to hide in an area Dimly Lit or Darker, you are considered proficient in the Stealth skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.

[type 1]
+2 Charisma
Subtle Manipulators: You have Advantage on Deception and Persuasion check
Cold Hearted: a Fetchling's heart and soul are naturally at a lower temperature than normal, giving them Resistance to all Cold Damage.

[type 2]
+2 Dexterity
Shadow Magic: You know the Friend cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Disguise Self spell once per day. When you reach 5th level, you can also cast the Blink spell once per day but with the target plane being the Shadowfell, instead of the Etherial Plane. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.


This feels a bit empty though, so what might make this a better race to play as

thoroughlyS
2016-01-02, 05:11 PM
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom
This already poses a problem since we only have 2 positive stats and they are even. Do we make it a +2 Dex +1 Cha, a +2 Cha +1 Dex, or +2 X +1Dex/Cha
I would recommend +1 Dex +1 Cha, then the sub-types each bump one.

Type: Outsider(Native)
I feel this can best be swapped with the Feyness of an Elf or a Warforged's Inorganic Body where they don't need to worry about sustinance as much and sleep less often than other races
Tieflings in 3.5/Pathfinder were also Native Outsiders, and don't receive any bonuses for it. Perhaps this can be represented by the racial spells a la Infernal Legacy.

Shadow Blending: Attacks against a fetchling in dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This ability does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance.
I think this might work like a Dwarf's Stonecutting or a Gnome's Artificer's Lore, where the race might have Expertise when making a Stealth check, but only when in Dim or Darker Lighting
Perhaps -staying more in line with the original ability- you could make people act like Fetchlings are heavily obscured in dim light.
Shadow Blending:While you are in an area of dim light, creatures attacking you effectively suffer the blinded condition.
This is pretty powerful, so I could understand toning it down to advantage on stealth checks and attack rolls while in an area of dim light.

Shadow Resistance: Fetchlings have cold resistance 5 and electricity resistance 5.
This is a big problem since Resistance plays a much bigger role than it did before. You typically either have it or you don't. Heck, Dragonborn just have Resistance and a Breath Weapon really when you think about it. Either Cold or Lightning Resistance would be a powerful thing. I'd be more likely to throw them Cold Resistance, but still, a big power.
Perhaps instead you give them a similar ability to the Gnome's Gnome Cunning.
Shadow Resistance: You have advantage on all saving throws against effects that deal cold or lightning damage.

Skilled: Fetchlings have a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (planes) and Stealth checks.
Again, like with resistance, having skills is a very tough thing to balance. It doesn't help that Knowledge(Planes) doesn't even exist in 5e anymore (last I checked), so I feel this isn't even worth considering.
The stealth bonus is covered, so maybe just:
Ancestral Knowledge: Whenever you make an Intelligence(Arcana) or (History) check related to the planes, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.

Spell-Like Abilities: A fetchling can use disguise self once per day as a spell-like ability. He can assume the form of any humanoid creature. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice. When a fetchling reaches 9th level in any combination of classes, he gains shadow walk (self only) as a spell-like ability usable once per day as a spell-like ability. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice. When a fetchling reaches 13th level in any combination of classes, he gains plane shift (self only, to the Shadow Plane or the Material Plane only) usable once per day as a spell-like ability. A fetchling's caster level is equal to his total Hit Dice.
Disguise Self, Shadow Walk, and Plane Shift. Shadow Walk is pretty much reserved to Shadow Monks and Shadow Sorcerers. It could be replaced with Misty Step, but I'm reserved on doing that since I've got Eladrin in this setting already. Disguise Self may be a 1st level spell, So I have less issues with this, but it might be best to give this as a Racial Archetype. And a lesser Plane Shift? I get that these are higher level spell-like abilities, but I don't think giving Plane Shift as a Racial power works at all really.
I agree wholeheartedly with your judgments, I an not sure what can be done about spells. All I know is that the core races give a cantrip at 1st level, a first level at 3rd, and a second level at 5th.

Darkvision: 60ft color
I don't see any problems here
Low-Light Vision: Twice as Far as humans
In 5e I think Low-Light is just double Darkvision right?
Both of these are rolled in to D&D NEXT Darkvision, yes.

Emissary: Roll Twice for Bluff and Diplomacy checks. Replaces Shadow Blending
So, Advantage on Persuasion and Deception checks, Might be balanced to give to Advantages in exchange for a situation Expertise, thoughts?
Replaces their main racial ability with something useful, but boring. I would just get rid of it.

Gloom Shimmer: Replace Shadow Walk with Displacement
I think this might be the better option anyway and could replace Shadow Walk and Plane Shift. Displacement could be replaced with Blink, but send the person to the Shadowfell instead of the Etherial Plane. Would just need a Cantrip and you effective have a Cantrip/1st/3rd spell power that a lot of races get.
Blink is nothing like Displacement, so that doesn't make sense to replace it with. But I'm not sure how you should handle the spells anyway.

Shadow Agent: +2 Bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy. Replaces Skilled
Like I said before with Skilled
Maybe just proficiency with either Charisma(Persuasion) or (Deception). Player's choice.

Shadow Magic: +1 bonus on the DC of any Illusion(Shadow) spell cast. Replaces Skilled.
Interesting idea, might work. not sure.
Numeric bonuses are almost entirely absent from D&D NEXT. Maybe just lose this.

Subtle Manipulator: Replaces Disguise Self with Memory Lapse
Could instead be used to give the race the Friend Cantrip?
Friends has a serious drawback, so if anything, it's Charm Person. But I don't know about spells.

World Walker: Replaces a +2 on Knowledge(Planes) with a +1 in Knowledge(Nature) and Knowledge(Local)
at least these are skills that exist in 5e, but the bonus is even less.
Just make Ancestral Knowledge work on Intelligence(History) and (Nature) for local events and wilderness.

Ability Score Increase:+1 Dex +1 Cha.
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Darkvision: Your ancestral ties to the Plane of Shadow grant superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Shadow Blending:While you are in an area of dim light, creatures attacking you effectively suffer the blinded condition.
Shadow Resistance: You have advantage on all saving throws against effects that deal cold or lightning damage.

DARKBORNE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:+1 Dex.
Ancestral Knowledge: Whenever you make an Intelligence(Arcana) or (History) check related to the planes, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.
Muddled Form: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Disguise Self spell once per day. Charisma is you spellcasting ability for this spell.

SOCIAL SHADE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:+1 Cha.
Shadow Agent: You gain advantage with either Charisma(Deception) or (Persuasion).
Shadow Walk: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Misty Step spell once per day. Charisma is you spellcasting ability for this spell.

Possibly replace Shadow Agent with
World Walker: Whenever you make an Intelligence(History) or (Nature) check related to local events, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.

Ninja_Prawn
2016-01-02, 05:35 PM
Ability Score Increase:+1 Dex +1 Cha.
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Darkvision: Your ancestral ties to the Plane of Shadow grant superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Shadow Blending:While you are in an area of dim light, creatures attacking you effectively suffer the blinded condition.
Shadow Resistance: You have advantage on all saving throws against effects that deal cold or lightning damage.

DARKBORNE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:[/B]+1 Dex.
Ancestral Knowledge: Whenever you make an Intelligence(Arcana) or (History) check related to the planes, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.
Muddled Form: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Disguise Self spell once per day. Charisma is you spellcasting ability for this spell.

SOCIAL SHADE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:[/B]+1 Cha.
Emissary: You gain advantage with either Charisma(Deception) or (Persuasion).
Shadow Walk: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Misty Step spell once per day. Charisma is you spellcasting ability for this spell.

Possibly replace Emissary with
World Walker: Whenever you make an Intelligence(History) or (Nature) check related to local events, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.

Points analysis time!


Jsketchy's Fetchling
2 ASI
0.5 Darkvision
1 Shadow Blending
0.5 Shadow Resistance
SUBTOTAL: 4

Darkborne
1 ASI
0.5 Ancestral Knowledge
0.5 Muddled Form
TOTAL: 6

Social Shade
1 ASI
0.5 Emissary / World Walker
1 Shadow Walk
TOTAL: 6.5


Well... that's pretty much spot on. 6-6.5 is the score for the PHB human/variant human.

Note on innate spellcasting:
I would remove the level restriction from the spellcasting. Kind of like the DMG Eladrin. For my own races, I assign points as follows:

Cantrip: 0.5
Once/day 1st-level spell from level 1: 0.5
Once/day 2nd-level spell from level 1: 1
1/3/5 casting (as per PHB tiefling): 1.5
1/3/5 casting with 2no cantrips and 2no 1st-level spells (as per my pixie): 2.5

thoroughlyS
2016-01-02, 05:56 PM
Jsketchy's Fetchling
2 ASI
0.5 Darkvision
1 Shadow Blending
0.5 Shadow Resistance
SUBTOTAL: 4

Darkborne
1 ASI
0.5 Ancestral Knowledge
0.5 Muddled Form
TOTAL: 6

Social Shade
1 ASI
0.5 Shadow Agent / World Walker
1 Shadow Walk
TOTAL: 6.5
I forgot Misty Step was a 2nd level spell. Perhaps make it only usable in shadow to lower it's value to about 1st level? Otherwise they should have to wait until 5th level to get it.

Ninja_Prawn
2016-01-02, 06:10 PM
I forgot Misty Step was a 2nd level spell. Perhaps make it only usable in shadow to lower it's value to about 1st level? Otherwise they should have to wait until 5th level to get it.

I really don't have a problem with once/day Misty Step, even at level 1. WotC obviously think it's ok, because they gave it to the eladrin. It's okay for there to be a slight difference between the subraces, too - Disguise Self is a perfectly respectable spell in its own right and I'm sure people would pick it even though Misty Step is on offer.

deathbymanga
2016-01-04, 03:36 AM
Ability Score Increase:+1 Dex +1 Cha.
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Darkvision: Your ancestral ties to the Plane of Shadow grant superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Shadow Blending:While you are in an area of dim light, creatures attacking you effectively suffer the blinded condition.
Shadow Resistance: You have advantage on all saving throws against effects that deal cold or lightning damage.

DARKBORNE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:[/B]+1 Dex.
Ancestral Knowledge: Whenever you make an Intelligence(Arcana) or (History) check related to the planes, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.
Muddled Form: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Disguise Self spell once per day. Charisma is you spellcasting ability for this spell.

SOCIAL SHADE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:[/B]+1 Cha.
Shadow Agent: You gain advantage with either Charisma(Deception) or (Persuasion).
Shadow Walk: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Misty Step spell once per day. Charisma is you spellcasting ability for this spell.

Possibly replace Shadow Agent with
World Walker: Whenever you make an Intelligence(History) or (Nature) check related to local events, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.


I feel like Shadow Walk should stay with the Ancestral Knowledge since it's related to the being more connected to the shadowfell.

fairly certain neither disguise self nor misty step require an attack roll nor a save against (perhaps disguise maybe but still) so why include the casting stat?

I do like the way you split the ability bonuses though

thoroughlyS
2016-01-04, 08:34 PM
I feel like Shadow Walk should stay with the Ancestral Knowledge since it's related to the being more connected to the shadowfell.
I'll be honest. I gave the Social Shade use of Misty Step, because giving them Disguise Self would've pigeonholed them into skillmonkey/face SO hard. I feel like this balances things out for them a little more. Plus, both subraces are equally tied to the Shadowfell, it is just expressed in different ways.

fairly certain neither disguise self nor misty step require an attack roll nor a save against (perhaps disguise maybe but still) so why include the casting stat?
Force of habit (and Disguise Self does have a save). All the core races list a casting stat for their racial spells.

I do like the way you split the ability bonuses though
Thanks, I've used that trick for a few races that are normally good at 1 or 2 things only.

thoroughlyS
2016-01-04, 09:13 PM
Gloom Shimmer: Replace Shadow Walk with Displacement
I think this might be the better option anyway and could replace Shadow Walk and Plane Shift. Displacement could be replaced with Blink, but send the person to the Shadowfell instead of the Etherial Plane. Would just need a Cantrip and you effective have a Cantrip/1st/3rd spell power that a lot of races get.
When I saw this, I remembered that in 3.5/Pathfinder there was a spell that functioned similarly (I believed them to be identical) to displacement, but I couldn't think of the name. I recently re-discovered the blur spell.


Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
Emulating the natural ability of the displacer beast (see the Monster Manual), the subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. However, unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. True seeing reveals its true location. Material Component: A small strip of leather made from displacer beast hide, twisted into a loop.

Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2,Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The subjectís outline appears blurred, shifting and wavering. This distortion grants the subject concealment (20% miss chance). A see invisibility spell does not counteract the blur effect, but a true seeing spell does. Opponents that cannot see the subject ignore the spellís effect (though fighting an unseen opponent carries penalties of its own; see page 151).
Perhaps this might be useful?

CHANGES IN RED
Ability Score Increase:+1 Dex +1 Cha.
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Darkvision: Your ancestral ties to the Plane of Shadow grant superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Shadow Blending:While you are in an area of dim light, you may treat creatures attacking you as suffering the blinded condition.
Shadow Resistance: You have advantage on all saving throws against effects that deal cold or lightning damage.

DARKBORNE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:[/B]+1 Dex.
Ancestral Knowledge: Whenever you make an Intelligence(Arcana) or (History) check related to the planes, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.
Shadow Walk: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the disguise self spell once per day.Once you reach 5th level, you can cast the misty step spell once per day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

SOCIAL SHADE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:[/B]+1 Cha.
Shadow Agent: You gain advantage with either Charisma(Deception) or (Persuasion).
Gloom Shimmer: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the disguise self spell once per day.Once you reach 5th level, you can cast the blur spell once per day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

This way the Darkborne Fetchling is the one with Misty Step. This does cause the issue with Social Shade Fetchlings getting Disguise Self. Does this make the race too powerful?

deathbymanga
2016-01-04, 11:04 PM
When I saw this, I remembered that in 3.5/Pathfinder there was a spell that functioned similarly (I believed them to be identical) to displacement, but I couldn't think of the name. I recently re-discovered the blur spell.



Perhaps this might be useful?

CHANGES IN RED
Ability Score Increase:+1 Dex +1 Cha.
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Darkvision: Your ancestral ties to the Plane of Shadow grant superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Shadow Blending:While you are in an area of dim light, you may treat creatures attacking you as suffering the blinded condition.
Shadow Resistance: You have advantage on all saving throws against effects that deal cold or lightning damage.

DARKBORNE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:[/B]+1 Dex.
Ancestral Knowledge: Whenever you make an Intelligence(Arcana) or (History) check related to the planes, you add twice your proficiency bonus, instead of any proficiency bonus you normally apply.
Shadow Walk: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the disguise self spell once per day.Once you reach 5th level, you can cast the misty step spell once per day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

SOCIAL SHADE FETCHLING
Ability Score Increase:[/B]+1 Cha.
Shadow Agent: You gain advantage with either Charisma(Deception) or (Persuasion).
Gloom Shimmer: Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the disguise self spell once per day.Once you reach 5th level, you can cast the blur spell once per day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.

This way the Darkborne Fetchling is the one with Misty Step. This does cause the issue with Social Shade Fetchlings getting Disguise Self. Does this make the race too powerful?

I feel the blinded condition might be a bit too powerful any day of the weak unless we make it a once a day thing and even then, makes more sense as a third racial power.

Plus if both halves get disguise self, then it might be better to put it under the complete race and not the archetypes.

both races get an illusionary disguise, can hide in dim light, and have advantage against cold and lightning damage.

Maybe give the race a Frostbite esque cantrip that does Necrotic damage? Or just give the Frostbite? though an offensive cantrip in addition to everything they have might again be too much.

I prefer Blur over Misty Step myself, though i feel if we're to give both sides spells, it might be better to give each a separate spell list instead of giving each 1 unique spell and 1 related spell.

I'm not really sure still

deathbymanga
2016-01-04, 11:12 PM
actually, upon revisiting my PHB, I realize that blinded isn't THAT bad a thing to have. And it only really serves to give the victim disadvantage, not that extreme (and you advantage if you have a parry power or some other reaction). I'd be ok with keeping it as it is

thoroughlyS
2016-01-05, 09:25 PM
Maybe give the race a Frostbite esque cantrip that does Necrotic damage? Or just give the Frostbite? though an offensive cantrip in addition to everything they have might again be too much.

I prefer Blur over Misty Step myself, though i feel if we're to give both sides spells, it might be better to give each a separate spell list instead of giving each 1 unique spell and 1 related spell.
Maybe just ditch disguise self? They would each still have a racial spell, and now they are on even standing as far as power goes.

deathbymanga
2016-01-06, 12:09 AM
Maybe just ditch disguise self? They would each still have a racial spell, and now they are on even standing as far as power goes.

sure, hmm, is that enough or do you think it's needing anything else?

thoroughlyS
2016-01-06, 12:17 AM
According to Ninja_Prawn, they'd be balanced against the core races. I think they're good.