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RakiReborn
2016-01-07, 09:29 AM
Hi GiantITP,

I have been homebrewing for a while now, to use in the future in a campain with friends i will DM in. The campain will have a LOT of homebrewing, including new classes, subclasses, metamagic, spells, etc.

This thread is about the Metamagic options for the Sorcerer class, and i'd like to get some feedback to see if it is balanced and to the liking of others :) Here they come:

When you cast a spell that deals Acid, Fire, Cold or Lightning damage, you can spend sorcery points equal to half the spellís level (rounded down, minimum 1) to change the damage type to another one of the named types.
When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can spend sorcery points equal to half the spells level (rounded down, minimum 1) to change its damage type to Force damage.
When you cast a spell, you can spend 2 sorcery points to increase the level it is cast from by one, to a maximum of what you can cast (ie. a 3rd level sorcerer can increase a 1st level spell to a 2nd level spell)
When you cast a spell which requires concentration, you can spend 2 sorcery points to gain advantage on constitution saving throws to maintain concentration on that spell.
When you cast a spell which requires an attack roll, you can spend 2 sorcery points to gain advantage on the first attack roll of the spell.
When you cast a spell that targets a creature that is concentrating on a spell that can be broken as a result of taking damage, you can spend 4 sorcery points to force the target to make a concentration check against your spellcasting DC if the spell is successful. If you apply this to a spell that makes the target take a concentration check already, it must make the concentration check with disadvantage against your spellcasting DC or the DC calculated by the damage, whichever is higher..
When you are hit by a creature, you may spend 3 sorcery points to cast a spell with a casting time of one action as a spell with a casting time of one reaction.
When you cast a spell with a duration of instantaneous, you can expend 1 sorcery point to make any visual manifestations of the spellís casting invisible. Environmental effects of the spell are still visible, such as moving or changing objects or creatures and the effects of the spell can still be felt by those it would affect, as well as be detectable through Detect Magic, True Seeing and other similar abilities.
When you cast a spell, you can expend 1 sorcery point to change the origin of the spell to any space you choose within 30ft of you. If the spell affects another creature, you must be able to see that creature.
When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can expend 2 sorcery points to daze the target on a hit. If you do so, the first attack roll after the spell has advantage against the target that was hit.
When you hit with a spell that deals damage, before you roll for damage, you can expend one or more sorcery points to deal maximum damage with one or more damage dice (1 sorcery point per two damage die)
When you cast a spell that targets a creature other than you or an area of effect, you can spend 4 sorcery points to teleport with the spell. When you cast a single target spell, you teleport to the closest spot to your original spot in melee range of that creature. If you cast a spell with an area of effect, you teleport to a spot in the area of effect. You disappear when you cast the spell, and appear after the spell is resolved.
When you cast a spell with an area of effect, you may spend 1 or more sorcery points to enlarge the area of effect. You can spend half the spells level in sorcery points (rounded up, minimum 1) per enlargement:
- Cone: The length is increased by 10ft
- Cube: The cubeís length, width and height are increased by 5ft.
- Cylinder: The cylinderís radius is increased by 5ft, or its height is increased by 10ft.
- Line: The lineís width is increased by 5ft, or its length by 15ft.
- Sphere: The sphereís radius is increased by 5ft.
When you cast a spell with a material component without a cost, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without the material component.
(good aligned characters that get this blessing from their deity only, obtainable with a quest in the campain)
When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can spend sorcery points equal to half the spells level (rounded down, minimum 1) to change its damage type to Radiant damage.
(evil aligned characters that get this blessing from their deity only, obtainable with a quest in the campain)
When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can spend sorcery points equal to half the spells level (rounded down, minimum 1) to change its damage type to Necrotic damage.
PLEASE NOTE: Some of the metamagic options may be derived or completely used from metamagic options that i found on the internet. Since i have homebrewed A LOT, i have no clue who originally posted it anywhere. If one of the metamagic options is made by you, or derived of one by you, please tell me and add the URL, so i can note it in the description of the metamagic option.

EDIT (7-1-2016): Changed the descriptions of Disruptive Spell and Invisible Spell to better worded descriptions, as formulated by 'Fast Jimmy'. Extra thanks to him for helping me!
EDIT (5-4-2016): Changed Ethereal Spell's cost from 1 SP per level to half SP per level. Changed Holy and Unholy spell's costs to scale as Transmutated and Ethereal spell instead of 3 and made it change full damage instead of half damage. Added to Disruptive spell that the concentration save is against your spellcasting DC, or the DC calculated by the damage, whichever is higher. Changed Maximized Spell to cost 1 SP for two dice instead of one. Changed Followed Spell's cost to 4 SP instead of 5. Changed Enlarged spell's cost from 3 SP to scale with spell level.

Fast Jimmy
2016-01-07, 10:07 AM
These are great options. I always loved MM from 3.5, even if it led to a lot of Shenanigans. I believe 5e's approach to it with Sorcerer points help eliminate a lot of these loop holes in the bud.

That being said, I thought I would ask - does your Homebrew give any different rules for gaining Sorcerer points?

Now, to the feedback...

Invisible spell - I see what you are aiming for with this, as 3.5 had a similar MM feat. But I think the confusing part is the discussion of "change the environment" part. Will a creature not notice a spell cast on themselves if the environement around them is undisturbed? Similarly, what counts as changing the environment? Technically speaking, Fireball doesn't describe any damage to any non-creatures or surrounding area, so would an invisible fireball be acceptable, despite the assumption that the surrounding area would probably be burnt to a crisp?

Disruptive spell - seems really good, if a little expensive at 4 points. I'm curious how you would imagine it to work with other mechanics like the Warcaster feat or the Focused Conjuration ability from the Wizard Conjuration School?

Reactive Spell - I can't pinpoint the exact way this could lead to insane cheese, but I'm really thinking turning any spell with casting time One Action to a Reaction cost can be problematic, regardless of the Sorcery Point cost. But I may be wrong.

Maximized Spell - I really like that it is maximized per damage dice. Really keeps things rooted.

Followed Spell - After seeing the nuclear Detect Object Metamagic disaster from 3.5, I'll just point out some obvious spells which may cause problems... Contact Other Plane, Hallucinatory Terrain, Locate Object. I know these are Wizard spells, but the PunPun enthusiasts love MC to break things.


Lastly, I think a good MM option you hadn't put out there would be to impose Disadvantage on target Save for a spell. It could work mechanically like the Accurate Spell Metamagic idea you proposed, but on the first Save instead of the first Attack.




Good work!

RakiReborn
2016-01-07, 11:26 AM
Thanks for the feedback! I will answer all the points in order:


These are great options. I always loved MM from 3.5, even if it led to a lot of Shenanigans. I believe 5e's approach to it with Sorcerer points help eliminate a lot of these loop holes in the bud.

That being said, I thought I would ask - does your Homebrew give any different rules for gaining Sorcerer points?

I have added one FEAT to gain metamagic options. I see your point with the Followed Spell, but apart from that i do not think there will be much problems with it. The feat gives 2 SP and one MM option. If you see any problems that occur with the options i made because of it, please tell me so :)


Now, to the feedback...

Invisible spell - I see what you are aiming for with this, as 3.5 had a similar MM feat. But I think the confusing part is the discussion of "change the environment" part. Will a creature not notice a spell cast on themselves if the environement around them is undisturbed? Similarly, what counts as changing the environment? Technically speaking, Fireball doesn't describe any damage to any non-creatures or surrounding area, so would an invisible fireball be acceptable, despite the assumption that the surrounding area would probably be burnt to a crisp?
This option is meant to be able to not give away your location when casting the spell. For instance, if you get a firebolt hurled towards your face, you probably see where it comes from. This option is meant to make the firebolt that is coming towards you invisible, so it is harder to track where it comes from (some DM's might say you dont know at all, some say you do know if it hits, but not if it misses). My wording is a bit off, because i had no idea how to describe it properly. Might i ask you to help me formulate it in a way that it does what i just explained?


Disruptive spell - seems really good, if a little expensive at 4 points. I'm curious how you would imagine it to work with other mechanics like the Warcaster feat or the Focused Conjuration ability from the Wizard Conjuration School?
The way that this should work is as following: if you use a suggestion spell on a caster that is concentrating on a spell, it normally doesn't have to make a concentration save. Using this MM option you can let him make a concentration save anyway. If you use a damaging spell, it normally has to make a concentration save, and with this MM option you let it take it with disadvantage. The high cost is because it can be quite good. And good things are nice, but should be costly, so you do not use it every time :)
Warcaster: i think you mean the AoO with a spell part. If you target someone that must concentrate on the spell cast, you get the AoO after the initial spell. It works the same way as with an action, so you can disrupt the concentration of a caster quicklier.
Focused Conjuration: Focused conjuration simply states you cannot lose concentration by gaining damage. It was not my intention to step on that ability, so i will have to change it slightly. Could you help me formulating this too? It is supposed to only let the target make a save as if it had taken damage, so the FC ability nullifies that effect too.


Reactive Spell - I can't pinpoint the exact way this could lead to insane cheese, but I'm really thinking turning any spell with casting time One Action to a Reaction cost can be problematic, regardless of the Sorcery Point cost. But I may be wrong.
If you think of something, please let me know. If i know where the problem may lie, i can change it ;)


Maximized Spell - I really like that it is maximized per damage dice. Really keeps things rooted.
Thanks, I'm actually pretty proud of this one ^^


Followed Spell - After seeing the nuclear Detect Object Metamagic disaster from 3.5, I'll just point out some obvious spells which may cause problems... Contact Other Plane, Hallucinatory Terrain, Locate Object. I know these are Wizard spells, but the PunPun enthusiasts love MC to break things.
Would it fix these problems if you have to see the point where you wish to teleport to when you are casting the spell? (this way it also doesnt work with scrying)


Lastly, I think a good MM option you hadn't put out there would be to impose Disadvantage on target Save for a spell. It could work mechanically like the Accurate Spell Metamagic idea you proposed, but on the first Save instead of the first Attack.
Edit: I cant believe i missed making that xD I had it in my head, and was convinced that i made it already :P I will add it in the original post. Thanks for pointing it out!
I suddenly remembered why i didn't make it. It is already in the PHB as Heightened Spell :P

Fast Jimmy
2016-01-07, 12:15 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I will answer all the points in order:



I have added one FEAT to gain metamagic options. I see your point with the Followed Spell, but apart from that i do not think there will be much problems with it. The feat gives 2 SP and one MM option. If you see any problems that occur with the options i made because of it, please tell me so :)

I like that Feat - similar to the PHB feat that gives limited Battlemaster Superiority die.



This option is meant to be able to not give away your location when casting the spell. For instance, if you get a firebolt hurled towards your face, you probably see where it comes from. This option is meant to make the firebolt that is coming towards you invisible, so it is harder to track where it comes from (some DM's might say you dont know at all, some say you do know if it hits, but not if it misses). My wording is a bit off, because i had no idea how to describe it properly. Might i ask you to help me formulate it in a way that it does what i just explained?

I'll give it a shot. :) BTW, I like the requirement that the duration for Invisible Spell be Instantaneous, as it avoids cheese from invisible summoning spells.

When you cast a spell with a duration of instantaneous, you can expend 1 sorcery point to make any visual manifestations of the spellís casting invisible. Environmental effects of the spell are still visible, such as moving or changing objects or creatures and the effects of the spell can still be felt by those it would affect, as well as be detectable through Detect Magic, True Seeing and other similar abilities.

I think that MIGHT help, but it is also more worry and, hence, prone to misinterpretation.


The way that this should work is as following: if you use a suggestion spell on a caster that is concentrating on a spell, it normally doesn't have to make a concentration save. Using this MM option you can let him make a concentration save anyway. If you use a damaging spell, it normally has to make a concentration save, and with this MM option you let it take it with disadvantage. The high cost is because it can be quite good. And good things are nice, but should be costly, so you do not use it every time :)
Warcaster: i think you mean the AoO with a spell part. If you target someone that must concentrate on the spell cast, you get the AoO after the initial spell. It works the same way as with an action, so you can disrupt the concentration of a caster quicklier.

I actually meant the "you have advantage on Constituion Saves you make for maintaining a Concentration spell while taking damage." If you used this MM ability on someone with Warcaster, would their Advantage and Disadvatage cancel out, just giving them one Concentration role?


Focused Conjuration: Focused conjuration simply states you cannot lose concentration by gaining damage. It was not my intention to step on that ability, so i will have to change it slightly. Could you help me formulating this too? It is supposed to only let the target make a save as if it had taken damage, so the FC ability nullifies that effect too.
Understood - I don't think the wording would need to change too much:

When you cast a spell that targets a creature that is concentrating on a spell that can be broken, you can spend 4 sorcery points to force the target to make a concentration check if the spell is successful. If you apply this to a spell that makes the target take a concentration check already, it must make the concentration check with disadvantage.


Would it fix these problems if you have to see the point where you wish to teleport to when you are casting the spell? (this way it also doesnt work with scrying)

I think that would work PERFECTLY. Although scrying may still fall victim to this - it would be within range AND the caster could see where they were going. Do you think adding a "no concentration spell" limitation would nerf it too much?



Edit: I cant believe i missed making that xD I had it in my head, and was convinced that i made it already :P I will add it in the original post. Thanks for pointing it out!
I suddenly remembered why i didn't make it. It is already in the PHB as Heightened Spell :P

Herp derp-a-derp herpalot. I'm an idiot. LOL

I (obviously) haven't played a Sorcerer yet in 5E, as I didn't realize that's what Heighten Spell did in this edition. That's a nice ability!

RakiReborn
2016-01-07, 12:26 PM
I like that Feat - similar to the PHB feat that gives limited Battlemaster Superiority die.
That was exactly my intention. Have another one that works the same way with KI, get a little and use it for the same options :P


I'll give it a shot. :) BTW, I like the requirement that the duration for Invisible Spell be Instantaneous, as it avoids cheese from invisible summoning spells.

When you cast a spell with a duration of instantaneous, you can expend 1 sorcery point to make any visual manifestations of the spellís casting invisible. Environmental effects of the spell are still visible, such as moving or changing objects or creatures and the effects of the spell can still be felt by those it would affect, as well as be detectable through Detect Magic, True Seeing and other similar abilities.

I think that MIGHT help, but it is also more worry and, hence, prone to misinterpretation.
wow, great. That cleares most of the unintended uses. If any others will come by, i will adress them at that time, but for now, this is great. May i use this text for the spell in the OP?


I actually meant the "you have advantage on Constituion Saves you make for maintaining a Concentration spell while taking damage." If you used this MM ability on someone with Warcaster, would their Advantage and Disadvatage cancel out, just giving them one Concentration role?
Ah, i get it. As normal, the disadv and adv would cancel eachother out.


Understood - I don't think the wording would need to change too much:

When you cast a spell that targets a creature that is concentrating on a spell that can be broken, you can spend 4 sorcery points to force the target to make a concentration check if the spell is successful. If you apply this to a spell that makes the target take a concentration check already, it must make the concentration check with disadvantage.
Another description as i would like it! Indeed not much change, but just the amount it needed :P May i use this in the OP too?



I think that would work PERFECTLY. Although scrying may still fall victim to this - it would be within range AND the caster could see where they were going. Do you think adding a "no concentration spell" limitation would nerf it too much?
I think the way i formulated it, you must be able to see it at the moment you cast it. With scrying you can only see the places you couldnt see otherwise after the spell resolves, so it wouldn't work.


Herp derp-a-derp herpalot. I'm an idiot. LOL

I (obviously) haven't played a Sorcerer yet in 5E, as I didn't realize that's what Heighten Spell did in this edition. That's a nice ability!
That makes two of us. And i actually play a SorcLock in a campain i am in now xD My excuse is that it doesnt fit too well with my char concept as for now, so i didn't remember it! 0:)

Fast Jimmy
2016-01-07, 01:25 PM
wow, great. That cleares most of the unintended uses. If any others will come by, i will adress them at that time, but for now, this is great. May i use this text for the spell in the OP?


Another description as i would like it! Indeed not much change, but just the amount it needed :P May i use this in the OP too?

Oh, sure, absolutely. I consider anything I put on this forum to be up for the taking.


Ah, i get it. As normal, the disadv and adv would cancel eachother out


I think the way i formulated it, you must be able to see it at the moment you cast it. With scrying you can only see the places you couldnt see otherwise after the spell resolves, so it wouldn't work.

Both of these make sense to me - sounds good.


That makes two of us. And i actually play a SorcLock in a campain i am in now xD My excuse is that it doesnt fit too well with my char concept as for now, so i didn't remember it! 0:)

I'm jealous. The only 5e warlock I have played was warlock only and we didn't get to mid-levels. I've really wanted to play a SorcLock. OR a BardLock - with a "Devil Went Down to Georgia" type of origin story, where I challenged an infernal or abyssal being to a music duel. :)


Going back to Maximize Spell, does the player get to pick the die that they maximize?

For instance, if I roll a 2d10 and get a 8 and a 1, can I choose to maximize the 1 to a 10, or does it have to follow any particular order?

RakiReborn
2016-01-07, 01:36 PM
Thanks, will edit it immediately :)


Going back to Maximize Spell, does the player get to pick the die that they maximize?

For instance, if I roll a 2d10 and get a 8 and a 1, can I choose to maximize the 1 to a 10, or does it have to follow any particular order?
You missed a bit:
When you hit with a spell that deals damage, before you roll for damage, you can expend one or more sorcery points to deal maximum damage with one or more damage dice (1 sorcery point for each damage die)

And a normal followup-question would be if you dealt multiple dice-size (2d10 and 2d8 for instance) if you could choose. My call is that you can choose (the biggest ofcouse), but that would be up to the DM, and should be discussed before choosing the MM option, if anyone would use this in their campain. Not sure if this actually happens in spells, but its worth to clarify.

RakiReborn
2016-01-08, 04:42 AM
A friend of mine pointed out some cheese with the Reactive Spell option.
As worded now, when you get hit, you can use a AOE as fireball as a reaction, and it doesn't even have to target the creature that hit you. I want to change the wording to more like the warcaster feat (but not the same trigger, so it doesn't step on the feat's toes):

When you are hit by a creature, you may spend 4 sorcery points to cast a spell with a casting time of one action as a spell with a casting time of one reaction upon being hit, and the spell must target only the triggering creature.

Would this take away all the abuses? Or does anyone know of more to use with this? Is the cost (4sp) still right?

Waffleworshiper
2016-03-11, 11:52 AM
When you cast a spell with a material component without a cost, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without the material component.
This is already covered by having an arcane focus, which is standard for sorcerers.

RakiReborn
2016-03-11, 12:02 PM
That is true in most cases, but some gritty campains have less access to foci or material components. Think of prison breaking campains and the like. For those kind of campains, this would be a nice addition.

PoeticDwarf
2016-03-11, 12:03 PM
These are great options and I love them but:
Unholy spell should just be two points, this is too expensive and the effect is pretty small
Holy spell: Same
Enlarged spell: Make this 1 per spell level, would be more fair and not making this either pretty strong or really weak. Nobody is going to use all points for a bigger arena on burning hands, but it can be good if you can get an extra enemy on spells of level 3+

Just some examples, I would look again at giving the points, although the effects are good

RakiReborn
2016-03-11, 12:09 PM
These are great options and I love them but:
Unholy spell should just be two points, this is too expensive and the effect is pretty small
Holy spell: Same
Enlarged spell: Make this 1 per spell level, would be more fair and not making this either pretty strong or really weak. Nobody is going to use all points for a bigger arena on burning hands, but it can be good if you can get an extra enemy on spells of level 3+

Just some examples, I would look again at giving the points, although the effects are good
Agree on holy and unholy, en like your idea for enlarged. Will make some edits at the end of / after the weekend

Gastronomie
2016-03-13, 03:25 AM
Well, extra options are nice, but there's only several options a Sorcerer can choose in his entire career (I honestly think it's okay to give them a bit more extra choices, but that's only if I'm the DM). So they'd have to be a bit strong to be actually used.


When you cast a spell that deals Acid, Fire, Cold or Lightning damage, you can spend sorcery points equal to half the spellís level (rounded down, minimum 1) to change the damage type to another one of the named types.I think this is enough with 1 or 2 points to be honest, I dunno.

When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can spend sorcery points equal to the spells level (minimum 1) to change its damage type to Force damage.Same with this. It's a nice effect, but right now it's too costly.

When you cast a spell, you can spend 2 sorcery points to increase the level it is cast from by one, to a maximum of what you can cast (ie. a 3rd level sorcerer can increase a 1st level spell to a 2nd level spell)Now, unlike the above (and unlike most in this list), this is pretty damn broken. Makes it possible for a level 17 or higher sorcerer to cast a Fireball at Level 9 by just spending 2 sorcery points. It's a very interesting effect and I like it, but I say give it a "up to Level 5 spell" restriction, which is exactly what they gave the warlock. I don't really understand why changing damage type would require loads of sorcerer points, when turning a Level 3 Fireball into something with the same damage as a Level 7 Delayed-Blast Fireball is just 2 SP. (Or Vitriolic Sphere, which scales considerably better.)

When you cast a spell which requires concentration, you can spend 4 sorcery points to gain advantage on constitution saving throws to maintain concentration on that spell.I think 4 is too costly. Perhaps 2? And even then I doubt people will use it, since Sorcerers already have proficiency in CON saves. Sure, you might not need to take the War Caster feat, but trading it with a Metamagic ability is...well, depends on person, I guess, but...

When you cast a spell which requires an attack roll, you can spend 3 sorcery points to gain advantage on the first attack roll of the spell.I think you're going for an attack roll version of Heightened Spell, but to be honest I don't know many Sorcerer spells that require an attack roll. It's not worth the Metamagic slot, nor the sorcery points.

When you cast a spell that targets a creature that is concentrating on a spell that can be broken, you can spend 4 sorcery points to force the target to make a concentration check if the spell is successful. If you apply this to a spell that makes the target take a concentration check already, it must make the concentration check with disadvantage. I think 4 is too much, perhaps 3 or 2?

When you are hit by a creature, you may spend 4 sorcery points to cast a spell with a casting time of one action as a spell with a casting time of one reaction upon being hit.Again, 4 is too much IMO.

When you cast a spell with a duration of instantaneous, you can expend 1 sorcery point to make any visual manifestations of the spellís casting invisible. Environmental effects of the spell are still visible, such as moving or changing objects or creatures and the effects of the spell can still be felt by those it would affect, as well as be detectable through Detect Magic, True Seeing and other similar abilities.It's nice how it uses only 1 sorcery point and it could prove useful in some campaigns. Most people wouldn't take it though, given how the number of Metamagic options you can use is very limited, but it's still a nice addition to have.

When you cast a spell, you can expend 1 sorcery point to change the origin of the spell to any space you choose within 30ft of you. If the spell affects another creature, you must be able to see that creature.I honestly think you should cut the latter part because it makes no sense and it makes it a bad option. Making this some sort of ambush spell could be very interesting, and I honestly think that wouldn't make it any "strong" either. It's what Wizards with Find Familiar can do from the start.

When you cast a spell that deals damage, you can expend 2 sorcery points to daze the target on a hit. If you do so, the first attack roll after the spell has advantage against the target that was hit.I first thought it was "Stun", then realized it was a whole new idea of "Daze". Whatever. I acutally pretty like this.

When you hit with a spell that deals damage, before you roll for damage, you can expend one or more sorcery points to deal maximum damage with one or more damage dice (1 sorcery point for each damage die)Not bad, but the already existing Empowered Spell is generally the better option here.

When you cast a spell that targets a creature other than you or an area of effect, you can spend 5 sorcery points to teleport with the spell. When you cast a single target spell, you teleport to the closest spot to your original spot in melee range of that creature. If you cast a spell with an area of effect, you teleport to a spot in the area of effect. You disappear when you cast the spell, and appear after the spell is resolved.It's a very interesting concept but 5 SP is way to omuch, and why would you, as a scrawny guy with hit dice of d6's, ever want to teleport to somewhere in melee range of an enemy? (And even if you're gonna teleport next to the barbarian you used Haste upon, chances are the barbarian is on the front line, so I can't think up many situations in which this will prove useful.) Being teleport to anywhere in the area of a fireball, or Meteor Swarm at higher levels is certianly interesting, but not enough to spend many SP upon - perhaps 2 or something. Not anything more than 3 IMO.

When you cast a spell with an area of effect, you may spend 3 or more sorcery points to enlarge the area of effect. You can spend 3 sorcery points per enlargement:
- Cone: The length is increased by 10ft
- Cube: The cubeís length, width and height are increased by 5ft.
- Cylinder: The cylinderís radius is increased by 5ft, or its height is increased by 10ft.
- Line: The lineís width is increased by 5ft, or its length by 15ft.
- Sphere: The sphereís radius is increased by 5ft.3 or more is way too much for this sort of effect, mainly since you should just friggin' walk over till the enemies are within range. More like, Distant Spell already exists.

When you cast a spell with a material component without a cost, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without the material component.Same opinions here as Invisible Spell. "Doubtful if will be actually used by many, but still a nice addition to have."

(good aligned characters that get this blessing from their deity only, obtainable with a quest in the campain)
When you cast a spell that deals damage, you may spend 3 sorcery points to change half its damage (rounded up) into radiant damage.Again, 3 is too much.

(evil aligned characters that get this blessing from their deity only, obtainable with a quest in the campain)
When you cast a spell that deals damage, you may spend 3 sorcery points to change half its damage (rounded up) into necrotic damage.Same.

Overall there are many interesting ideas, but most seemed underpowered to me with the sole exception of Overchanneled Spell, which made high-level Sorcerers basically the most broken blasters in the entire game mechanic (blastin' Level 9 fireballs and Virtiolic Spheres every turn like a total boss). I do like the concept in mind though.

RakiReborn
2016-03-14, 08:28 AM
Well, extra options are nice, but there's only several options a Sorcerer can choose in his entire career (I honestly think it's okay to give them a bit more extra choices, but that's only if I'm the DM). So they'd have to be a bit strong to be actually used.
Thanks for all the feedback! I'll go by them one by one :)

I think this is enough with 1 or 2 points to be honest, I dunno.
Up to 3rd level it is already 1 SP, and 4th and 5th will be 2 SP. This will usually be used on lower level spells for the extra damage on elemental spells, and with higher levels to dodge resistance and immunity. It gives versatility with damage types, which is pretty good with the sorcerer, since it has to have less damage spells with different damage types. Changing the cost to 1 seems to low for me, and changing it to 2 removes the usage with extra damage for dragon sorcs on earlier levels. I personally think this SP rate is fine, but i am open to change. If others think it should be 1 or 2 too, i will probably change it.

Same with this. It's a nice effect, but right now it's too costly.
Same with this xD this is actually stronger, but dodges resistance and immunity pretty much completely with force damage. I will make this half as the Transmutated, since it is less interesting for dragon sorcs with the extra damage on an element.

Now, unlike the above (and unlike most in this list), this is pretty damn broken. Makes it possible for a level 17 or higher sorcerer to cast a Fireball at Level 9 by just spending 2 sorcery points. It's a very interesting effect and I like it, but I say give it a "up to Level 5 spell" restriction, which is exactly what they gave the warlock. I don't really understand why changing damage type would require loads of sorcerer points, when turning a Level 3 Fireball into something with the same damage as a Level 7 Delayed-Blast Fireball is just 2 SP. (Or Vitriolic Sphere, which scales considerably better.)
I think you read it wrong... It costs 2 SP to put it in one slot higher. This would mean a 17th level sorc could use a 8th level slot and 2 SP to cast it as a 9th level spell, but could cast a spell with a 3rd level slot and 2 SP as a 4th level spell. This is costlier than using a higher level slot (given that you have it) in most cases, but the same with 2->3, 5->6, 8->9. It is however better than burning a slot for SP and buying a higher slot to cast spells from with your SP, as it takes the BA's out of it, and gets cheaper with higher levels. This option simply gives you the chance to nova more. I think i will make it 2 SP per level higher, so that you can indeed cast spells as a 9th level spell, but it becomes costlier (3rd -> 9th costs a whopping 12 SP). This is pure for the nova potential.

I think 4 is too costly. Perhaps 2? And even then I doubt people will use it, since Sorcerers already have proficiency in CON saves. Sure, you might not need to take the War Caster feat, but trading it with a Metamagic ability is...well, depends on person, I guess, but...
This is a nice option for the melee sorcs or MC sorcs that dont get the CON prof (paladorc for instance if it wants the heavy armor prof). I do agree that 4 is too much - will make it 2.

I think you're going for an attack roll version of Heightened Spell, but to be honest I don't know many Sorcerer spells that require an attack roll. It's not worth the Metamagic slot, nor the sorcery points.
Most (all?) cantrips, chromatic orb, Scorching Ray. And some MC's would like it. Dunno, maybe it is better with 2 SP?

I think 4 is too much, perhaps 3 or 2?
Hmmm, ment to add that it makes a concentration saving throw against your spellcasting DC. Is 4 still too much then?

Again, 4 is too much IMO.
It breaks the action economy with spellcasting, but 4 might be too much indeed. Will make it 3, as it is slightly better than quickened (costs 2 SP) imo, since it allows you to cast a second level-spell in one round.

It's nice how it uses only 1 sorcery point and it could prove useful in some campaigns. Most people wouldn't take it though, given how the number of Metamagic options you can use is very limited, but it's still a nice addition to have.
Great, keeping this as-is then ^^

I honestly think you should cut the latter part because it makes no sense and it makes it a bad option. Making this some sort of ambush spell could be very interesting, and I honestly think that wouldn't make it any "strong" either. It's what Wizards with Find Familiar can do from the start.
It is poorly worded, and unnecessary. Will remove the latter part.
Personally i really like this one. Gives you the option to extend range, getting melee spell attacks at 30ft, or put your line spell in a crazy way. Or trick people that your Half-Orc Barbarian is casting a lightning bolt xD

I first thought it was "Stun", then realized it was a whole new idea of "Daze". Whatever. I acutally pretty like this.
Great, one more to keep as-is :)

Not bad, but the already existing Empowered Spell is generally the better option here.
Hmmm... how about i make it 2 dice for 1 SP? Would it make it too strong, or about even?

It's a very interesting concept but 5 SP is way to omuch, and why would you, as a scrawny guy with hit dice of d6's, ever want to teleport to somewhere in melee range of an enemy? (And even if you're gonna teleport next to the barbarian you used Haste upon, chances are the barbarian is on the front line, so I can't think up many situations in which this will prove useful.) Being teleport to anywhere in the area of a fireball, or Meteor Swarm at higher levels is certianly interesting, but not enough to spend many SP upon - perhaps 2 or something. Not anything more than 3 IMO.
This is essentially adding a misty step with often more range into a spell. One build i would think this is really useful, is the vengeance paladorc. Cast hunters mark as a BA, and teleport with it, using your action to slice the enemy up. 5 might indeed be too much, 3 or 4 would be better (misty step is 2nd level, so 3 SP, but it adds the effect costing no extra BA, and with mostly a better range). Would 4 still be too much? if so, i am willing to make it 3 SP.

3 or more is way too much for this sort of effect, mainly since you should just friggin' walk over till the enemies are within range. More like, Distant Spell already exists.
Against a LOT of mooks, this can be quite useful i think... Will look at it some more, and change it soon.

Same opinions here as Invisible Spell. "Doubtful if will be actually used by many, but still a nice addition to have."
Another to keep as-is then :)

Again, 3 is too much.

Same.
Will make them both 2 SP. Or make them as Transmutated and Ethereal. Will look at it some more.

Thanks again for the elaborate feedback!
I will make the edits later this week, really busy atm, and no time left atm after writing this post xD

PotatoGolem
2016-03-14, 09:03 AM
I agree with Gastronomie in general that the costs are way too high for many of these. Also, from your responses, it seems like most of them are costed assuming a paladin multiclass. While it's a good idea to make sure something isn't totally broken when you multiclass, I'd really shy away from putting too many class options that are only useful with a specific multiclass. Just my 2cp

RakiReborn
2016-04-05, 07:20 AM
Finally had the time to make the changes to the metamagic options. The edits are explained at the bottom of the OP. Are they better balanced this way?

Kryx
2016-07-24, 11:56 AM
Hi Raki,

Rather late to the party, but I do like what you have here. A lot of these options are great! I will be stealing Invisible Spell, Overchannel, and and Precise Spell (You called it accurate). I have Elemental Spell (like your Transmuted) and Enlarged Spell (like yours, but different).

My opinion on what you have so far:

Elemental Spell gives a bit too much versatility. I chose to have the user pick a damage type when choosing the option and then having it cost 1. I think that's a better option
Ethereal/Holy/Unholy Spell these shouldn't exist imo. Elemental should cover the use case and force/radiant/necrotic is not resisted much at all. Most others aren't either so if necessary for flavor (not mechanical benefit) then I'd let a player choose force/radiant/necrotic on elemental.
Overchannel Spell: 2 is pretty accurate based on DMG 288 on spell points.
Protected Spell: I'd be wary about allowing this option. Concentration is already difficult to break - especially at low levels.
Disruptive Spell: Most concentration DCs until mid levels are DC 10. Increasing that to 13 at low levels or 15 at level 5 is too much imo.
Reactive Spell: This option shouldn't exist imo. Incredibly too strong. Any action economy breaking option has to be limited.
Translocated Spell: Not a fan of the fluff in terms of allowing things like Cone of Cold to start further away. It allows perfect casting without the caster putting themselves in danger. Those spells are balanced on being great at the cost of that risk. Removing that risk shouldn't be an option imo.
Dazing Spell: I would remove the daze word for clarity as that word was a condition in older editions.
Maximized Spell: On d10 spells it adds an average of 4.5 damage per 1 point. In comparison to Empowered Spell which would cost 1 point and allow a reroll of up to 3-5 dice, likely increasing the average damage by a higher amount. I like that there is only 1 damage boosting option and not the trap options of 3.X. But up to you.
Pure Spell: Incredibly overpowered for spells that have a material cost. I would move no-cost material spells into subtle spell as it could use a bit of a boost.