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RakiReborn
2016-01-19, 07:17 AM
Hi all!

After making the Intelligent Character Options (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?474705-Intelligent-Character-Options-PEACH) to add some Intelligence based sub-classes and feats, i wanted to do the same with Charisma. I came up with the following:

Sub-Classes
Intimidating Presence (lvl3):
Starting at 3rd level, your intimidating presence disturbs the accuracy of those trying to hit you. You can use your Charisma modifier instead of your Constitution Modifier for your Unarmored Defence. Additionally, when you rage, you have advantage on Charisma saving throws.

Improvisional Fighter (lvl3):
Also starting at 3rd level, you have learned to use anything as your weapon. You become proficient in improvised weapons.

Intimidating Striker (lvl6):
At level 6 you combine your intimidating presence with your strikes. If you hit with a weapon attack on your turn while raging, you may use a bonus action to intimidate an enemy. That enemy must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8 + Profbonus + Chamod) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn. You may use this feature an amount of times equal to half your Charisma modifier (rounded up) per rage.

Crowdís Favor (lvl10)
Starting at 10th level, you fight better when others are around you. As a bonus action on of each of your turns, you may gain 1 THP for every non-hostile creature within 60ft of you, to a maximum of your Charisma modifier, using their favor as a way to keep going. The maximum increases to twice your Charisma modifier at level 18.

Shouting Striker (lvl14):
Starting at 14th level, you have learned to empower your Intimidating Striker feature with shouts. Whenever you use your Intimidating Striker feature, you may choose one of the following effects to add to the featureís effect:

Distracting Shout: If the target fails the saving throw, the first attack roll against the target by a creature other than you has advantage if the attack is made before the start of your next turn.
Challanging Shout: If the target fails the saving throw, it has disadvantage on attacks against creatures other than you until the end of your next turn.
Disorienting Shout: If the target fails the saving throw, it cannot take reactions until the end of its next turn.
Painful Shout: If the target fails the saving throw, you deal 1d6 psychic damage to the target.
If a target is immune to being frightened, it is also immune to these effects. A target is unaffected by these options if it canít hear you.
As a commander, you use your charisma to inspire others, and guide them in combat. You never go alone, as the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Commanderís Inspiration (lvl3):
Starting at 3rd level, you have learned to inspire your allies with words of bravery and guidance. Once per short or long rest, you may spend 10 minutes inspiring an amount of allies up to your Charisma modifier. Those allies gain a Commanderís Inspiration Die, which they can use to roll and add the number on the die to one ability check, attack roll or saving throw. A creature can only have one Commanderís Inspiration Die at any given time, and the die is lost if the creature takes a short or long rest. The die starts as a d6 at level 3, and increases to a d8 at 7th level, and d10 at 15th level.

Commanderís Strike (lvl7):
Starting at 7th level, whenever you take the attack action on your turn, you can forgo one of your attacks and use your bonus action to direct one of your companions to strike. When you do so, choose one friendly creature who can see or hear you. That creature can immediately use its reaction to make one weapon attack.

Well of Stamina (lvl10):
Starting at 10th level, your words can inspire others to dig deep in their stamina, so they can fight for you longer. You can use a bonus action on your turn to let an ally who can hear you spend a number of Hit Dice up to half your Commander level (rounded down).

Commanderís Presence (lvl15):
Starting at 15th level, your presence is enough to inspire those near to you. Allies within 10ft of you gain a bonus to Int, Wis and Cha saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier.

True Leader (lvl18):
Starting at 18th level, you have become a true leader in the midst of combat. When you use your Commanderís Strike ability, you can choose to forgo two of your attacks. If you do, the creature that uses its reaction to make one weapon attack gains advantage on the attack roll. Additionally, when you use your Well of Stamina ability, the ally targeted gains twice your Charisma modifier as THP.
Magic Cards (lvl3):
As a bonus action on your turn, you can conjure magic cards in your hand that you can throw as ranged weapons for one minute. You are proficient in these weapons. The weapons deal slashing damage and are considered magic for overcoming damage restrictions. The damage die for these weapons are 1d4, and you add your dexterity and half your charisma modifier (rounded down, minimum 0) to the damage rolls. At 9th level you may add half your Charisma modifier (rounded down) to the attack rolls, up to a maximum of +1. At 17th, the maximum increases to +2. Sneak Attack is applied on these weapons. At 13th level, the damage die increases to 1d6.

Fated Gambler (lvl3):
Whenever you make a d20 roll for gambling, you gain advantage on the roll.

Cards of Fate (lvl9):
Whenever you make an attack roll as part of the attack action with your magic cards, you can choose to roll a d6. On a 1 or 2, you deal an additional 1d6 fire damage to the target and all creatures in a 5ft radius around it on a hit. On a 3 or 4, you slow your target and all creatures in a 5ft radius around it by half their movement speed on a hit. On a 5 or 6, on a hit the target must succeed on a constitution saving throw (DC is 8+prof+CHAmod) or be paralyzed until the end of its next turn. At 13th level, you may roll 2d6 and use either result.
You can use this ability an amount equal to your Charisma modifier per short rest.

Swift Hands (lvl13):
Practicing with your magic cards made you especially swift with your hands. You are proficient in Sleight of Hand checks if you werenít already.

Card Fiesta (lvl17):
You can make one weapon attack to every enemy within 30ft of you. They all hit at the same time, and you can divide your sneak attack damage dice between all the hits. You can use this ability once per long rest.

Yes, this is a Twisted Fate adaption from League of Legends
Shadow Gear (lvl3):
Also starting at 3rd level, you can use your action to weave yourself into an armor of shadows for 1 minute when not wearing armor or wielding a shield. If you do, your AC becomes 10 + your Dexterity modifier + half your Charisma modifier (rounded up). When you wield this armor, you may create a weapon made of shadows in your empty hand as a bonus action. You can choose the form that this melee weapon takes each time you create it (see chapter 5 for weapon options). This weapon deals necrotic damage and counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to non-magical attacks and damage.

One with Shadows (lvl9):
Starting at 9th level, you have learned to blend with the shadows. When wearing your Shadow Gear, you have advantage on stealth checks in dim light or darkness. Additionally, when wearing your Shadow Gear, you can invoke darkness around yourself as an action, as if you had cast the Darkness spell as a 2nd level spell. You can invoke darkness around you once per short or long rest this way.

Shadow Step (lvl13):
At 13th level, you gain the ability to step from one shadow into another. When you are in dim light or darkness, as a bonus action you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see that is also in dim light or darkness. You then have advantage on the first melee attack you make before the end of the turn.

Flesh to Shadow (lvl17):
Starting at 17th level, you have learned to merge with the shadows of your Shadow Gear. When wearing your Shadow Gear, you can use an action to try to merge with the shadows of your Shadow Gear. If you do, you are considered under the effect of the Blink spell, but instead of vanishing, you fully change into shadows, with the same effects as the spell gives. You can use this feature an amount equal to your Charisma modifier per long rest.

Feats:

+1 to CHA
If you hit with a weapon attack on your turn, you may use a bonus action to intimidate an enemy. That enemy must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8 + Proficiency bonus + Charisma modifier) or be frightened of you until the end of your next turn. You can use this feature twper short or long rest.
For the people that want this feature as a feat instead of using the new archetype
Once per short or long rest, you may spend 10 minutes inspiring an amount of allies up to your Charisma modifier. Those allies gain a Commanderís Inspiration Die, which they can use to roll and add the number on the die to one ability check, attack roll or saving throw. A creature can only have one Commanderís Inspiration Die at any given time, and the die is lost if the creature takes a short or long rest. The die starts as a d6 at level 3, and increases to a d8 at 7th level, and d10 at 15th level.

For the people that want this feature as a feat instead of using the new archetype
Prerequisite: Charisma 13 or higher, proficiency in Persuasion or Deception

You gain advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Persuasion) checks against indifferent creatures to become friendly to you after talking to that creature for at least one minute.
You gain advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Persuasion) checks against friendly creatures to take a risk for you or go the extra mile for you.
You gain advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Persuasion) checks against friendly creatures to gain information.

Prerequisite: Charisma 13 or higher, proficiency in Persuasion or Deception

You gain advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Persuasion) checks when trying to bring down the price of an item.
You always pay at least 10% less for non-magical items.
You always pay at least 10% less for downtime lifestyle expenses.


Please tell me what you think. If you have any suggestions or feedback, please let me know. If you have another idea for a Cha-feat, i might make it and add it to this post!

EDIT (19-1-2016): Changed the level in the discription of Shadow Step from the Shadow Reaver to the right level.
EDIT (22-2-2016): Limited the uses of Frightening Strike of both the Barbarian path and the feat, and added to 'Crowd's Favor' that it uses a bonus action, so it competes with the frightening strike. Fixed the mistake in Commander's Strike. Limited the attack roll bonus of the Fate Weaver's Magic Cards. Added a limit t

M Placeholder
2016-01-19, 12:00 PM
For the Shadow Reaver, when you get to 13th level, does the "attack with advantage" mean you get a sneak attack? If so, then it is pretty overpowered. Also, you put "at 6th level" in the description for a 13th level feature. I like the type overall though.

RakiReborn
2016-01-19, 01:11 PM
For the Shadow Reaver, when you get to 13th level, does the "attack with advantage" mean you get a sneak attack? If so, then it is pretty overpowered. Also, you put "at 6th level" in the description for a 13th level feature. I like the type overall though.

Thanks, i will edit it! I took the feature from the Way of the Shadow monastric tradition of the monk. I personally thought it would be good as it is, and gives a nice ninja-ish flavor. As it is, it does give sneak attack. However, so does simply hiding in shadows. I noticed with playing a monk6/rogue14 that in the moments you can get advantage from this feature, you can also reliably get advantage in other ways, like hiding (which is a bonus action for rogues too). Also, given that it only gives advantage on the first melee attack in the same turn, means you can't get out of melee without provoking an AoO. I can't really write clearly what i have in my mind, but i hope this explains my opinion a little bit.
How do others think of this? Should I remove the advantage part, give an extra restriction (apart from melee attack only), or should i leave it as it is?

JNAProductions
2016-02-08, 04:48 PM
Intimidating Striker is far too powerful to be allowed at-will. Frightened is a ridiculously powerful condition.

Crowd's Favor is also too powerful-it's basically DR Other Party Members/-, so it's like HAM usually, but works against EVERYTHING.



Commander's Strike doesn't work. You're not a Battlemaster, you're a Commander.



Magic Cards... Honestly, I'd just make them regular Finesse. Most of a Rogue's damage comes from Sneak Attack, but I do see a little room for abuse with a Paladin combo, for instance.

Cards of Fate is WAY TOO POWERFUL for how often it can be used. I'd make it Charisma Mod per Long Rest or once per Short Rest.

Swift Hands should have a clause that lets you gain proficiency in any other skill if you already have Sleight of Hand, so it doesn't become useless.

Card Fiesta is just kinda cool. Might need some clarifying, but I understand what you mean by it.



Shadow Gear-how often can you do this? It doesn't say.

One With Shadows is OP if Shadow Gear is at-will, since this is almost permanent advantage on Stealth.

Shadow Step is too much to give to a Rogue. That Advantage is useful for a Monk, but insanely useful to a Rogue, due to sneak attack. I'd tweak it.



Frightening Fighter is far too powerful to be allowed at-will, as with the Barbarian feature.

RakiReborn
2016-02-08, 07:31 PM
Intimidating Striker is far too powerful to be allowed at-will. Frightened is a ridiculously powerful condition.

Crowd's Favor is also too powerful-it's basically DR Other Party Members/-, so it's like HAM usually, but works against EVERYTHING.
Would changing it to only while raging fix these problems? Crowd's Favor is a bit like a weakened Heroism spell on yourself that way. And didnt realise that frightened is that powerful, but maybe you're right. Although you need 4 stats to make this build really powerful (STR, DEX, CON, CHA), so i thought the abilities may be a little stronger to counter the insane MADness. Please give me your opinion about that and the fix :)


Commander's Strike doesn't work. You're not a Battlemaster, you're a Commander.
Even though it is an ability from another archetype, it feels way too right to mee to exclude it just on that basis... Do you have a better suggestion? If i like it, i just might change it, or offer it as a variaty option.


Magic Cards... Honestly, I'd just make them regular Finesse. Most of a Rogue's damage comes from Sneak Attack, but I do see a little room for abuse with a Paladin combo, for instance.

Cards of Fate is WAY TOO POWERFUL for how often it can be used. I'd make it Charisma Mod per Long Rest or once per Short Rest.

Swift Hands should have a clause that lets you gain proficiency in any other skill if you already have Sleight of Hand, so it doesn't become useless.

Card Fiesta is just kinda cool. Might need some clarifying, but I understand what you mean by it.
Magic Cards is to give it some more fluff (the to-hit and damage increase is because you cant have a magic item to increase it, and it will be used in a campain with magic items available). It is made after the Twisted Fate character from League of Legends. As it is considered a ranged weapon (as the dart), you get to add your sneak attack damage on them. May i ask what combo you see with the paladin to abuse?
Cards of Fate might indeed be too strong, even though the effect is random. Ill change it to CHAmod per long rest, and maybe add rolling two d6 at 13th so you can choose as with the Wild Magic sorcerer. What is your thought about rolling 2d6 and choosing either option at 13th?
With Swift Hands, i thought that was part of RAW already? (phb 126). With Card Fiesta, thanks for the compliment ^^ What part might need some clarifying?


Shadow Gear-how often can you do this? It doesn't say.

One With Shadows is OP if Shadow Gear is at-will, since this is almost permanent advantage on Stealth.

Shadow Step is too much to give to a Rogue. That Advantage is useful for a Monk, but insanely useful to a Rogue, due to sneak attack. I'd tweak it.
Shadow Gear is at-will. It is made as a weaker version of Unarmored Defence with a weaker version of Pact of the Blade (warlock) attached to it, and it uses an action to start it.
One with Shadows is indeed quite strong. Do you have any suggestions? I want to make it a stationary benefit to stealthyness with shadows.
Shadow Step: youre the second to say that, so ill asume you are right. Again, do you have any suggestions? Restrict it to once/twice per short rest? (twice feels fine to me i think...)


Frightening Fighter is far too powerful to be allowed at-will, as with the Barbarian feature.
Would it be better with a restriction on amount of uses? Once again, any suggestions? :P

Thanks for taking your time to comment, i'm happy to gain such in-dept analysis ^^

JNAProductions
2016-02-08, 08:58 PM
Would changing it to only while raging fix these problems? Crowd's Favor is a bit like a weakened Heroism spell on yourself that way. And didnt realise that frightened is that powerful, but maybe you're right. Although you need 4 stats to make this build really powerful (STR, DEX, CON, CHA), so i thought the abilities may be a little stronger to counter the insane MADness. Please give me your opinion about that and the fix :)

No, because Rages are not a very limited resource.

Honestly, this is fine against hordes. The issue is, against single monsters, this ability can lock them down and prevent them from doing anything with some lucky rolls. I'd remove frightened entirely and make it some other, less powerful condition.


Even though it is an ability from another archetype, it feels way too right to mee to exclude it just on that basis... Do you have a better suggestion? If i like it, i just might change it, or offer it as a variaty option.

The issue is, you have no superiority dice. You cannot use this ability. As written, it's just plain broke.


Magic Cards is to give it some more fluff (the to-hit and damage increase is because you cant have a magic item to increase it, and it will be used in a campain with magic items available). It is made after the Twisted Fate character from League of Legends. As it is considered a ranged weapon (as the dart), you get to add your sneak attack damage on them. May i ask what combo you see with the paladin to abuse?
Cards of Fate might indeed be too strong, even though the effect is random. Ill change it to CHAmod per long rest, and maybe add rolling two d6 at 13th so you can choose as with the Wild Magic sorcerer. What is your thought about rolling 2d6 and choosing either option at 13th?
With Swift Hands, i thought that was part of RAW already? (phb 126). With Card Fiesta, thanks for the compliment ^^ What part might need some clarifying?

No specific combo, just the ability to add half-charisma damage is potent. Then again, rounding down, at 20 Charisma it's +2. My first glance was wrong-it's not OP, it's just a nice little damage bonus.

WAIT! Nevermind, that's only if it's Charisma mod to damage only. With bounded accuracy, even minor bonuses to attack make a huge difference. Make it damage only, and it's fine. Add it to attack, and that's too much.

Seems fine with the roll 2d6, take the one of your choice, at 13.


Shadow Gear is at-will. It is made as a weaker version of Unarmored Defence with a weaker version of Pact of the Blade (warlock) attached to it, and it uses an action to start it.
One with Shadows is indeed quite strong. Do you have any suggestions? I want to make it a stationary benefit to stealthyness with shadows.
Shadow Step: youre the second to say that, so ill asume you are right. Again, do you have any suggestions? Restrict it to once/twice per short rest? (twice feels fine to me i think...)

At-will Shadow Gear is fine.

One With Shadows... Hm... I'd make something entirely new. Perhaps you are treated as having half cover when in dim light or darkness?

Shadow Step I would remove entirely. Make something new.


Would it be better with a restriction on amount of uses? Once again, any suggestions? :P

Maybe once per short rest, to match the Fighter's Frightening Strike (or whatever it's called)?


Thanks for taking your time to comment, i'm happy to gain such in-dept analysis ^^

No problem.

RakiReborn
2016-02-09, 05:05 PM
No, because Rages are not a very limited resource.

Honestly, this is fine against hordes. The issue is, against single monsters, this ability can lock them down and prevent them from doing anything with some lucky rolls. I'd remove frightened entirely and make it some other, less powerful condition.
Rage is limited in some way. It is only 2/long rest at lvl1, and goes up to 6 at 17th. But apart from that, it is still too much. I would also like to compare it to Menacing Attack (Battlemaster), which gives the same effect, without a bonus action, with extra damage, with the DC based off a core ability instead of a secondary/tertiary ability, and you can do that 4 - 6 times per short or long rest, or you can actually choose something else that might be better for your situation. Still i admit that only while raging might be too much, but it is not that overpowered as i think you feel. I thnk that i will limit it to twice per rage - that way it starts at 6x per long rest, goes up to 12 times at 17th, and is still limited at 20th. Maybe 3 is even better, gotta think about this for a moment or two... I do wish to still get your view on this solution, as i want to have the opinion from someone who homebrews longer than me and has seen more. Even if i might not like it or use it, it is still valuable info for me :)


The issue is, you have no superiority dice. You cannot use this ability. As written, it's just plain broke.
Aaaaahhhhh that is what you mean. Removing the 'superiority dice' that i missed in editing after copying should fix it a bit. I am worried that it might be strong, but i dunno. It is strong with certain combo's (this with a rogue for example), but i dont know whether it would be too strong. What is your take? What solutions do you have? (same stuff on my side with the superiority dice noted above applies here)


No specific combo, just the ability to add half-charisma damage is potent. Then again, rounding down, at 20 Charisma it's +2. My first glance was wrong-it's not OP, it's just a nice little damage bonus.

WAIT! Nevermind, that's only if it's Charisma mod to damage only. With bounded accuracy, even minor bonuses to attack make a huge difference. Make it damage only, and it's fine. Add it to attack, and that's too much.

Seems fine with the roll 2d6, take the one of your choice, at 13.
I will take the 13th level increase. Again i refer to a former statement - you cannot increase it with magic weapons. It will be used for a campain where there will be access to magic items, so that is my reason to include it. It seems waaaayyy weak otherwise (BA to get to attack with them at all, and almost all other abilities rely on them because of fluff). I do believe it is too strong to be able to get a +2 at first level with insane rolls, so i will add a level requirement for the to-hit bonus. After doing some research i came up with this:
A +1 weapon is uncommon, and a +2 weapon is rare. Following the random tables in the DMG and avarage rolls that the DMG suggests, a party of 4 will each gain an uncommon item around 7th-8th level, and each a rare around 15th-16th or so. Following this, and the archetype increases, i will add the to-hit at 9th with a max of +1, which increases to +2 at 17th. This makes it come in later than the avarage weapon of its bonus, but that is fine by me. How do you feel about it?


At-will Shadow Gear is fine.

One With Shadows... Hm... I'd make something entirely new. Perhaps you are treated as having half cover when in dim light or darkness?

Shadow Step I would remove entirely. Make something new.
I will need to think about this for a while. Might take some time until i show some changes...


Maybe once per short rest, to match the Fighter's Frightening Strike (or whatever it's called)?
Once per short rest is too low for me, with the same thing as noted at the start of the post. I think twice per short or long rest is better, considering the Martial Adept feat only gives one superiority die (but stronger and versatility to take something more fitting to the situation). I do give a +1 to cha too, which the MA feat doesnt, so 1 per short or long rest might be good enough. Hmmm.... Is your opinion for once per rest the same after the information i gave in this post? I will leave this verdict to you, at least for the time being ;)

I will add the changes to the OP later this week. Kind of busy right now :/