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JusticeZero
2016-01-25, 12:29 AM
Scratching my head at all the forms that SW games have taken over time. Can anybody explain the pros and cons of the various systems? I wasn't planning to mix Force and Non-Force classes, so a lot of diversity within those would be a plus. I've run D6, D20, i've looked over Saga, and I don't mind learning a new system. I'm not familiar with FFG or FATE.

Mark Hall
2016-01-25, 01:01 PM
Unfortuantely, you have familiarity with the ones I know best.

D6 has a lot going for it, though I feel it needs some tweaking to make it more playable. Force Users will be powerful, but if you're all force users, or no one is, that's less of an issue. I like the option to reduce hand to hand damage and damage resistance that I outline here (http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2014/11/d6-and-blaster-proof-wookie.html), increasing the value of armor and reducing the blaster-proof wookie problem.

D20 was largely "D&D in Space", with the optional HP/VP system and VP powering your force powers. Not fantastic, with some weird bits (like all the jedi able to essentially heal to perfect with a bit of force use, if they team up), but not great or truly horrible.

Saga was sort of a 3.75 system, incorporating some features that would be better known in 4e. Classes were notably somewhat adaptable due to talent trees, and I eventually got rid of them altogether (http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2013/07/classless-saga-and-other-alterations.html). Force powers used a per-encounter system, and there was a built in "wellness" option in the Condition Track... you COULD get whittled down to 1 HP and be fine, but a big hit might knock you down the condition track, indicating that you were more badly wounded than you thought.

I don't know the FFG system.

GrayDeath
2016-01-25, 01:26 PM
It depends on the Feel you want (and how much of new System Info your players, and even moreso YOU, can stomach).

The D20 Versionw as arguably the worst, simply D&D in space with mostly the usual Caster/Noncaster Problem (meaning early on Jedi, that were actually supposed to be full Jedi, had a chance of less than 1 in 4 to accomplish one of the "movie Move".
Saga was better, but a classic leveling System simply does not really fit SW that well.

The FFG Games are, imo (only oneshot and read) too gimmicky and unnecessary complicated ina reas, but cature the feel well.

D6 has holes/problems usual for "old School Free Systems" (of which it was the first iirc) but captures the mood very well. AND is practially free.

Mark Hall
2016-01-25, 04:17 PM
Saga was better, but a classic leveling System simply does not really fit SW that well.


Have you seen my Levelless Saga rules?

Zombimode
2016-01-25, 04:40 PM
The FFG Games are, imo (only oneshot and read) too gimmicky and unnecessary complicated ina reas, but cature the feel well.

Completely disagree on that on. For me Edge of the Empire is a prefect fit for Star Wars.
But I think a lot of comes from what do you expect from a Star Wars RPG and what "kind" of Star Wars you like the most.

If you think that the Thrawn Trilogy is the best thing that happened to the franchise since Empire Strikes Back then Edge of the Empire is definitely worth a look as it captures this kind of Star Wars feeling pretty good.
If you are, on the other hand, more of a Old Republic guy, with force users running around everywhere, then maybe there are better systems for that.

In any case, I can't wrap my head around how a D20 derivative can possibly work for a Star Wars game, though admittedly my only exposure was through KotOR. I liked the game, but the D&Desque game system was atrocious and completely unfitting for the setting. And this comes from someone who really likes D&D 3.5 (for fantasy).

Mark Hall
2016-01-25, 07:41 PM
I thought the implementation of d20 Star Wars in KOTOR was adequate... not fantastic, and KOTOR 2 did some things better, but adequate.

Rakaydos
2016-01-25, 10:18 PM
Im a big fan of the FFG system.

The funny dice weight the game toward momets like the classic, "that should hold yhem off!""find the controls!""uh, I think I just blasted them", where difficult success is usually accompanied by... complications, and failures often have unanticipated benifits. "Fail Foward" is practically Han Solos player's motto.

For a force user campaign, get the black core book. 6 carears that start with Force Rating 1, each with 3 specialties in the core book, with more specializations in carear-focused splatbooks. 0 xp characters are ANH luke and Old Ben (if built on nothing but what we see in ANH) so if you want more flashy force use, start with "knight level", which is closer to phantom menace and Rebels power level, and tell them to go for Force Rating 2.

Ninjadeadbeard
2016-01-25, 11:07 PM
Just my two cents: I've found that Star Wars rpgs are at their best when they take a "Mutants and Masterminds" approach to mechanics. In that, the mechanics are all basically the same, with wildly different fluff. I run a quasi-monthly SW game using the DnD 5E rules, and for the most part be it some gear, a class ability, or a spell, if you can fluff it, you can have it. Case in point, the Ranger loved using entangle and jump in battle. We agreed these spells were really just limited-use gear. He was a bounty hunter, see, and his jet-boots and net-gun weren't bottomless. He even agreed that if he were ever captured he'd roleplay having his equipment taken away, even though you normally can't just deny a spellcaster his spells that way.

Other than that, I've always liked the d20 and Saga editions. Though I'd also kill for an official full 5e-style SW game.

CharonsHelper
2016-01-25, 11:23 PM
I thought the implementation of d20 Star Wars in KOTOR was adequate... not fantastic, and KOTOR 2 did some things better, but adequate.

The mechanics for KOTOR 2 were a bit better (mainly by making ranged combatants viable vs lightsabers) but the storyline was meh, and the pacing was rather poor.


In any case, I can't wrap my head around how a D20 derivative can possibly work for a Star Wars game, though admittedly my only exposure was through KotOR. I liked the game, but the D&Desque game system was atrocious and completely unfitting for the setting. And this comes from someone who really likes D&D 3.5 (for fantasy).

So long as you started Saga at level 4-6 it felt right. The main thing that doesn't mesh with Star Wars is the extreme zero-to-hero of d20, but Saga inherently had less, especially if you skipped the first few levels. (The game pretty much assumed that you would start there, especially after the first few splats. I think they even mentioned that Jedi classed characters couldn't take their test to become Jedi Knights until at least 7.)

Revised d20 wasn't too bad, but the Jedi > Everyone Else was pretty blatant; in some ways it was worse than caster/martial in 3.x D&D because they were doing more of the same stuff and the Jedi weren't squishy for the first few levels.

Edit: grammar only

JusticeZero
2016-01-27, 03:00 AM
How well did the FATE adaptation turn out as far as actual play is concerned? I have no experience with actually playing it, and aspects of it look outwardly like they might be useful, but I don't understand them.

Lord Raziere
2016-01-27, 03:57 AM
Its less a question of whether Fate can do it, and more of a question of HOW you want Fate to do it, because there is more than one way for Fate to do Star Wars. its a system that changes with each person that uses it, to be honest.

JusticeZero
2016-01-27, 08:57 AM
Except for the fact that I've only seen one core setting plug-in and lack the knowledge or desire to deviate much from rules as presented, and also that systems always have outcomes and assumptions baked in. Free-form even bakes in a lot of assumptions and has certain results.

Beleriphon
2016-01-27, 01:03 PM
Except for the fact that I've only seen one core setting plug-in and lack the knowledge or desire to deviate much from rules as presented, and also that systems always have outcomes and assumptions baked in. Free-form even bakes in a lot of assumptions and has certain results.

FATE Core would work, but its a very narrative system. That means to a degree the rules work the same way the movies work, in so far as they tell a story the way Star Wars tells a story, rather than simulating the universe Star Wars occupies. You'd need a few plug-ins for Force powers, I'd personally steal from the Dresden Files RPG magic system as a base line (that system is actually pretty complicated, bit it lets you simulate dang near anything).

For example Luke Skywalker by Return of the Jedi would probably have a high aspect of Last of the Jedi Knights, Han Solo might be a Fast Talking Smuggler, Princess Leia could be Alderaanian Princess of House Organa. By the Force Awakens we'd have something like Jedi Master in Exile, Fast Talking Smuggler, and Famous General of the Resistance.

So in essence that High Aspect is essentially the biggest descriptor of the character, and as an over view covers what the character should be able to do. The aspects provide permission for your character to do things. If you have rules for Force power a character might be required to have something about being able to use the Force in their high aspect (Jedi Knight, Knight of Ren, Force Sensitive Salvager, etc.).

GrayDeath
2016-01-29, 04:12 PM
Have you seen my Levelless Saga rules?

Nope, I havent.
But since I only played it for a while and we here use either D6 (if someone else GM`s) or a Homebrew (if I do it) it wont help much, even if its REALLY good.

Still, thanks. I might give it a look for pure curiousity though, where can I do that?


@ Zombiemode: You have not read what I wrote as well as I would like.
I said I only had a oneshot experience and it seemed to "Gimmicky" (what with all the special dice and such) to me. I Did in no way say its bad, actually in the line you quoted you can reread that.
AND that wasnt with Edge of Empire (we were playing rebels and I had some reading time with the book), which I did not mention.

I personally liked the Thrawn Trilogy very much and would have loved an Imperial Game therein btw. ;)

Mark Hall
2016-02-01, 06:25 PM
Nope, I havent.
But since I only played it for a while and we here use either D6 (if someone else GM`s) or a Homebrew (if I do it) it wont help much, even if its REALLY good.

Still, thanks. I might give it a look for pure curiousity though, where can I do that?


Arrrgh, forgot to link in the post. Here. (http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/2015/06/h1-levelless-star-wars-saga.html)