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RakiReborn
2016-02-05, 06:40 AM
Hi GiantITP,

After making the variants for the Dragonborn race (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?477047-Dragonborn-Variants-WIP-PEACH), i thought the options for Tiefling variants from SCAG were a little low. So, as a homebrewer, ofcourse i had to make a bigger list for the Tieflings :P It is still a WIP, and a lot probably needs some balancing. The options are a little weaker than the Dragonborn options, as the Tiefling has the Darkvision already in the racial traits.

The options are all based on the SCAG options, UA arcana options or fiend creatures in the MM.

Tiefling Variants
You may trade your Hellish Resistance or Infernal Legacy with one of the following options. You cannot take two resistances or two legacy options at the same time.
You have bat-like, or dark or red bird-like wings sprouting from your shoulder blades. You have a flying speed of 30 feet. This increases to your walking speed at 11th level if you have a higher walking speed. Any clothes or armor must be specifically made for you to accomodate your wings, which doubles the price of the clothes or armor.
Magical darkness doesnít impede your Darkvision
You gain resistance to Cold damage.
You gain resistance to Necrotic damage
While in dim light or darkness, you can take the Hide action as a bonus action.
You can use an action to polymorph into a beast form that resembles a bat (speed 10ft. fly 40ft.), a centipede (40ft., climb 40ft.), or a toad (40ft., swim 40ft.) for one hour. Your mental abilities (Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma) are the same as in your normal form, but your physical abilities (Strength, Dexterity and Constitution) are the same as the beast form you change into. Any equipment you are wearing or carrying isn't transformed You revert to your true form if the duration ends, you are reduced to 0 HP in beast form, or if you use an action to change back to your normal form. While in beast form, you can understand your normal languages, but you cannot speak. You can use this feature once per long rest.
When you roll a saving throw against a spell or magical effect, you may reroll the die and take the higher result. You canít use this feature again until you finished a short or long rest.
As an action, you call upon your fiendish blessing, making it harder to hit you. For one minute, you add half your Charisma modifier (rounded up) to your AC. You can use this feature once per long rest.
You gain proficiency in the Persuasion and Deception skills.
One humanoid you can see within 30 feet of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (DC 8 + proficiency bonus + Charisma modifier) or be magically charmed by you for 1 day, and does so with advantage in you or creatures that are friendly to you are fighting it. If the creature suffers any harm or receives a suicidal request, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on a success. If the target successfully saves against the effect, or if the effect on it ends, the target is immune to this feature for the next 24 hours.
Your hit point maximum increases by 1, and it increases by 1 every time you gain a level.
You know the Chill Touch cantrip. Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the False Life spell once per day as a 2nd-level spell. Once you reach 5th level, you can also cast the Ray of Enfeeblement spell once per day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Your Yugoloth heritage grants you claws, which you can use to attack. You can use either strength or dexterity for the attack and damage rolls, and they deal 1d4 + ability modifier slashing damage on a hit. Once per short or long rest, you can call upon your fiendish heritage for one turn, drenching your claws in poison. If you do, the first target that you hit with a claw attack must succeed on a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + your constitution modifier) or be poisoned until the end of your next turn.
Your Yugoloth heritage grants you the ability to teleport. As an action, you may teleport to a spot you can see within 60ft of you. You can use this feature once per short or long rest.

Please tell me your thoughts/opinions/ideas. If you have any ideas that are not on the list yet, please tell me so i might add them!

EDIT 5-2-2016: Added the sentence to Wings about armor.
EDIT 22-2-2016: Changed Fiendish Blessing from full cha and unarmored only to half cha and no restrictions. Added Fiendish Claws and Fiendish Teleport

Gastronomie
2016-02-05, 07:11 AM
This seems like a pretty badass idea, loving it. Might later use in actual gameplay, thanks~

Most seem balanced, but I personally think you should add the Aaroka's "No medium/heavy armor" clause to the "Winged" variant. Same with Dragonborn, probably.
Then maybe, you could make the LV11 buff "making medium armor ok" or something like that.

RakiReborn
2016-02-05, 08:51 AM
This seems like a pretty badass idea, loving it. Might later use in actual gameplay, thanks~

Most seem balanced, but I personally think you should add the Aaroka's "No medium/heavy armor" clause to the "Winged" variant. Same with Dragonborn, probably.
Then maybe, you could make the LV11 buff "making medium armor ok" or something like that.

The aarakocra have a flying speed of 50 instead of 30. I think the 30 balances it out enough (-20ft, but no armor restrictions). What i will add is that any armor or clothes must be specially made to accomodate the wings, costing twice as much as the regular armor.

Gastronomie
2016-02-05, 09:42 AM
The aaroka have their 50 feet flight ability with armor restrictions, a really bad claw attack, and that's it for their additional traits. Apart from how they have 25 feet normal movement and a really short lifespan (though lifespan hardly matters in most campaigns). And even then, some people argue they're overpowered.

On the contrary, Tieflings already have some good abilities. And costing more money is hardly a drawback.

This is your thread so I won't mind if you don't change, but just saying that should I ever allow players to use this idea, at least I would give it armor restrictions.
Apart from how, if a friend came over to me and said he's using this homebrew material, I'd probably argue it's possibly unfair and that it could have other players grumbling about power balance between characters.

Maybe you could make it 40 feet flight with medium/heavy armor restrictions (medium lifted away at level 11), I dunno, it's all up to you.

RakiReborn
2016-02-05, 11:18 AM
Replying from my mobile, so sorry for any typos, and its possible i missed something in your post since i cant quote-reply or hold it next to the typing...

First, thanks for all your thoughts, i like it when someone takes the time to have a discussion.

I based the wings feature from the variant option in the SCAG. There, it just gives fly without restrictions. I added the possibility to fly longer distances for those with movement increases, since i dont want to limit them if they take this option (even though i dont see monks or barbarian play this race very quickly). Thanks to your comment, i see the problem with armor. I think the extra money is a well enough restriction, especially if you want to wear heavier armor. Heavy already costs quite a bit, especially at low levels. With the restriction, you have to postpone it for a bit, since you need more money (aka time) to be able to get and use it. This restricts it a bit at lower levels, where the problem of fly speed is the largest imo.

I think this is all i had right now, but again, i am typing this from my mobile, so i cant type and look at your post the same time...

M Placeholder
2016-02-05, 01:06 PM
Are there any opitions for tieflings descended from Yugoloths on that list?

RakiReborn
2016-02-05, 01:52 PM
These are the general options for tieflings from whatever fiend has meddled in their bloodline, witch some more specific options (like the charm). I dont really know of any specific traits yugoloths have, but i might be able to make something if you give me some information about them :)
One thing pretty much all fiends i found had, was the magic resistance trait, and i made a version of that. At least its something for now ;p

Alerad
2016-02-05, 07:59 PM
I like your ideas, I did something similar for our sessions. Right now the tiefling options are scattered, it's good to organize them better.

Shapechanger might be strong for first level (and even later). One of the options in SCAG gave Alter Self at level 5 I think, which is still mechanically weaker than shapechange.

Abyssal Fortitude. I did the same changes, making it 1hp/level. I don't know why in was 1/2 hp/level in the books, but it looks better this way.

Is Fiendish blessing intented to work with barbarian or monk's unarmored defence?
If so, it becomes strong it seems (AC = 10 + 2 + Dex + Con + Cha ~ easily 20 at first level).

The rest of the abilities look good to me.

RakiReborn
2016-02-06, 07:27 AM
Thanks for the compliment :)
Again on mobile, so sorry if i make any mistakes...

Shapechange isnt that strong imo. Maybe i need to add concentration, and make it clear that you cant attack or cast spells in the beast form. It is only ment for scouting etc. It is essentially a weaker version of the shapechange of the imp (i think...). Alter self gives the option to breathe in water, which this doesnt. And with AS you can change your general appearance in humanoid form, which you cant with this one. Lastly, the shapechange is the only thing it gets, instead of AS and a spell and cantrip with the spellcasting feature. If these arent the points that you mean, could you explain what exactly makes it so strong?

The fiendish blessing is supposed to work with unarmored def and armor, but its only for 1minute a day. So essentially one combat a day. So it can be high, but i personally think it is not too strong. Also, where did you get the +2 from..? If it is too strong in your opinion, could you give a solution, that still makes it feel like the FB of fiends in the monster manual?

M Placeholder
2016-02-06, 07:56 AM
One of the major features of all Yugoloths is their ability to teleport 60ft at will to a place that they can see. Maybe teleport once every long or short rest?

Gastronomie
2016-02-06, 09:17 AM
Well that would be pretty similar to the Eladrin with Misty Step. But since the original Yugoloth can't teleport unless he uses up his valuable action, the Tiefling version would presumably also use up an action, and if so, it's probably balanced enough as an extra ability.

RakiReborn
2016-02-06, 09:38 AM
So something like this (better formulated and fluffed):
Yugoloth teleport: as an action, you may teleport to a spot you can see within 60ft of you. You can use this feature once per short or long rest.

M Placeholder
2016-02-06, 09:47 AM
So something like this (better formulated and fluffed):
Yugoloth teleport: as an action, you may teleport to a spot you can see within 60ft of you. You can use this feature once per short or long rest.

Thats pretty good. Looking at the abilties of the yugoloths, the poison claws of the Arcanaloth and the gaze of the Ultraloth could be made into additional features for tieflings.

RakiReborn
2016-02-06, 10:01 AM
How about this for the claw suggestion (again better formulated and fluffed):

Claws: you have claws that deal 1d4 damage, works as monk unarmored strike at its base, once per short or long rest con save (cha or dex powered dc?), on fail poisoned until end of your next turn.

The gaze i will have to look into when i have access to my MM and have some extra time again after the weekend... hope the claws are written clear enough to understand it :p

Alerad
2016-02-17, 08:08 AM
Shapechange isnt that strong imo. Maybe i need to add concentration, and make it clear that you cant attack or cast spells in the beast form. It is only ment for scouting etc. It is essentially a weaker version of the shapechange of the imp (i think...). Alter self gives the option to breathe in water, which this doesnt. And with AS you can change your general appearance in humanoid form, which you cant with this one. Lastly, the shapechange is the only thing it gets, instead of AS and a spell and cantrip with the spellcasting feature. If these arent the points that you mean, could you explain what exactly makes it so strong?

I'm sorry, I misread it as a more powerful version and didn't realize the shapes are limited to only three. In which case it's probably fine as it is.



The fiendish blessing is supposed to work with unarmored def and armor, but its only for 1minute a day. So essentially one combat a day. So it can be high, but i personally think it is not too strong. Also, where did you get the +2 from..? If it is too strong in your opinion, could you give a solution, that still makes it feel like the FB of fiends in the monster manual?

The +2 comes from shield (the barbarian allows it).
Currently there is barbarian unarmored defence, monk and mage armor. Maybe it's ok as it will require 3 ability scores, so it can't be maxed easily (or at all). I'm just mindful of stacking bonuses in general as they can blow your AC very fast when combined with other skills.

I was thinking you can make it a kind of Unarmored Defence, AC = 10 + Dex + Cha when not wearing armor. This way it doesn't stack and it can be always active. But it's not the same as the Cambion or the fiends. Also, their bonus also applies when they are wearing armor as well.

RakiReborn
2016-02-17, 06:46 PM
I'm sorry, I misread it as a more powerful version and didn't realize the shapes are limited to only three. In which case it's probably fine as it is.
NP, glad it seems fine as it is :)


The +2 comes from shield (the barbarian allows it).
Currently there is barbarian unarmored defence, monk and mage armor. Maybe it's ok as it will require 3 ability scores, so it can't be maxed easily (or at all). I'm just mindful of stacking bonuses in general as they can blow your AC very fast when combined with other skills.

I was thinking you can make it a kind of Unarmored Defence, AC = 10 + Dex + Cha when not wearing armor. This way it doesn't stack and it can be always active. But it's not the same as the Cambion or the fiends. Also, their bonus also applies when they are wearing armor as well.
How about this: You can choose to get a base AC of 10 + CHAmod + DEXmod when unarmored, or add half CHAmod (rounded down) to your AC. This way you get the following options:
Unarmored: max 20 (22 with shield)
Barbarian: Max 22 (24 with shield), but needs 3 stats (almost) full apart from the attack stat.
Monk: Max 22, but needs three stats at (almost) full
Light armor: max 19, (21 with shield)
Medium armor: max 19 (20 with feat, 21 with shield, 22 with both)
Heavy armor: max 20 (22 with shield)
Does that seem better? It also still fits the fiends ability, just less powerful. I am also wary of granting AC bonusses, but this does not seem too strong this way. At least better than before :P

Alerad
2016-02-18, 06:22 PM
How about this: You can choose to get a base AC of 10 + CHAmod + DEXmod when unarmored, or add half CHAmod (rounded down) to your AC.

Better choose either of them I think.

If it works with all armors, here is a guideline:
Armored fighting style adds +1 AC. (Not really comparable with Charisma in this case)
Shield of Faith adds +2 for 1 minute and requires concentration. (Comparable to Cha/2)
Shield adds +5 for 1 turn and requires a reaction (Comparable to Charisma).
Elaborate Parry adds +2-6 for 1 hit and requires a reaction.
Bladesong makes everything look weak in comparison, but comes with a lot of restrictions.


If it requires a reaction, it'll be potentially weaker than Shield.
If it is limited to +Cha/2 for 1 minute, it is potentially weaker than Shield of Faith as you can only target yourself.
However it can be combined with Shield of Faith since it is a different spell/ability.


In this regard maybe your original idea is better, you can just add concentration to it, or don't add concentration and reduce it to Cha/2. I don't know which is the best way around it since only playtesting it can show.

RakiReborn
2016-02-19, 05:30 AM
Better choose either of them I think.

If it works with all armors, here is a guideline:
Armored fighting style adds +1 AC. (Not really comparable with Charisma in this case)
Shield of Faith adds +2 for 1 minute and requires concentration. (Comparable to Cha/2)
Shield adds +5 for 1 turn and requires a reaction (Comparable to Charisma).
Elaborate Parry adds +2-6 for 1 hit and requires a reaction.
Bladesong makes everything look weak in comparison, but comes with a lot of restrictions.

If it requires a reaction, it'll be potentially weaker than Shield.
If it is limited to +Cha/2 for 1 minute, it is potentially weaker than Shield of Faith as you can only target yourself.
However it can be combined with Shield of Faith since it is a different spell/ability.

In this regard maybe your original idea is better, you can just add concentration to it, or don't add concentration and reduce it to Cha/2. I don't know which is the best way around it since only playtesting it can show.
Ill make it Cha/2 (rounded up) without concentration i think. This way it is slightly stronger than SoF, which is just a lvl1 spell. And no concentration. I think that way, it is quite balanced against the other things like spellcasting. Does that seems good to you?

M Placeholder
2016-02-20, 05:41 AM
How about this for the claw suggestion (again better formulated and fluffed):

Claws: you have claws that deal 1d4 damage, works as monk unarmored strike at its base, once per short or long rest con save (cha or dex powered dc?), on fail poisoned until end of your next turn.

The gaze i will have to look into when i have access to my MM and have some extra time again after the weekend... hope the claws are written clear enough to understand it :p

The claws are clear. As far as making venom, constitution would be the score I would attribute it to - the higher the constitution of the tiefling, the stronger the venom/poison would be. I would make the save 8+your proficiency bonus+your constitution modifier, and if the target fails the save, it falls poisoned. On each of its subsequent turns, it can make constitution checks, ending the poisoned condition on a successful turn.

RakiReborn
2016-02-20, 07:16 AM
I get why you suggest to base it off CON, but as far as i know, all racial features are based off the primary or secondary stat of the race (or only primary, phb not near me). Since tiefling has cha and int increases, i think cha is the best. It feels like the 'fiendish' part, and imo that fits enough - the better the fiendish part, the better the fiendish poison.
Ill think about it some more throughout the weekend, and add it after the weekend when i have some more time.

JBPuffin
2016-02-20, 08:18 AM
I get why you suggest to base it off CON, but as far as i know, all racial features are based off the primary or secondary stat of the race (or only primary, phb not near me). Since tiefling has cha and int increases, i think cha is the best. It feels like the 'fiendish' part, and imo that fits enough - the better the fiendish part, the better the fiendish poison.
Ill think about it some more throughout the weekend, and add it after the weekend when i have some more time.

Dragonborn's dragon breath is Constitution-based, which is neither primary or secondary for them (more like tertiary for everyone :P).

RakiReborn
2016-02-20, 09:43 AM
That... is true..... i am completely mistaken - thought they gained con from race xD although the race favors melee, so con is usually higher with them. This feature makes melee a possibility for the tiefling, but the race still favors casters imo. Ill think about it some more and see what if feel more comfortable with ;)

Alerad
2016-02-20, 09:50 AM
Ill make it Cha/2 (rounded up) without concentration i think. This way it is slightly stronger than SoF, which is just a lvl1 spell. And no concentration. I think that way, it is quite balanced against the other things like spellcasting. Does that seems good to you?

I think it's ok. Comparing it to SoF:
+ It can potentially add +1 more AC. (Only after level 4+ with standard pointbuy)
+ It doesn't require concentration.
- It requires an action rather than a reaction.
- It only targets self

Comparing it to other Tiefling features:
- It only provides one ability (rather than cantrip + 1st level + 2nd level spell like Infernal Legacy)

Actually it seems weaker, but provided that it can still be combined with other AC buffs, I think it's fine.

Edit: Also the Cambion in the MM has some half or breast plate, so not limiting it to unarmored makes it closer to the original.

RakiReborn
2016-02-22, 07:06 AM
Made the change to Fiendish Blessing in the OP.
Added the Fiendish Claws and Fiendish Teleport (yugoloth abilities) to the OP. Cant find the Ultraloth anywhere to make the Gaze ability. Does anyone know where to find it, so i can make it into a feature?