Delete this please

[JBPuffin]

As I believe I've gotten all the help y'all will be providing, I'm pulling the class from here to continue testing on my own. Thanks for the support I did receive.

Calling for a delete of this thread.

[JBPuffin]

Delete thread please mods. Thank you.

[PoeticDwarf]

Seems good, I'd say unarmored defense on first level and not 4x expertise (8 skills). Just 2 times. It's way too much and there will be Arithmatists with 5 skill proficiencies

[Seerow]

I read this as "Rithmatist" at first and was really hoping to see a class built around chalk drawings that come to life. :(

[JBPuffin]

Seems good, I'd say unarmored defense on first level and not 4x expertise (8 skills). Just 2 times. It's way too much and there will be Arithmatists with 5 skill proficiencies

Oh no, my friend - you're thinking too small. By 20th level, an Arithmatist can have 10 skills easily :smallbiggrin:. I'll consider it, although 1st level is loaded as it is and I'd prefer to keep it from being an immediate dip for Wizards. Any critique on Simplification?

[PoeticDwarf]

Oh no, my friend - you're thinking too small. By 20th level, an Arithmatist can have 10 skills easily :smallbiggrin:. I'll consider it, although 1st level is loaded as it is and I'd prefer to keep it from being an immediate dip for Wizards. Any critique on Simplification?
CAN have 10 proficiencies easily, sure. But next to being too much it could just be 7 getting expertise 7 and 8. Also, swap stuff around. At second level unarmored defense is... strange.

Also, this class is very nice and has enough; but it is useless in combat. No spells -no extra attack (or 10d6 sneak attack). This class should just be good in combat by calculating thd enemy's moves. No it gets skills and that kinda stuff, nice, till you encounter an housecat

[JBPuffin]

CAN have 10 proficiencies easily, sure. But next to being too much it could just be 7 getting expertise 7 and 8. Also, swap stuff around. At second level unarmored defense is... strange.

Also, this class is very nice and has enough; but it is useless in combat. No spells -no extra attack (or 10d6 sneak attack). This class should just be good in combat by calculating thd enemy's moves. No it gets skills and that kinda stuff, nice, till you encounter an housecat

D8 hit die, adds Int mod to damage w/ ranged weapons (a.k.a. what I imagine a Wizard would use), Un. Def at 2nd b/c Wizards are just grr (seriously, THIS IS A BALANCING ISSUE, symmetry be damned). The Vedic school will fill in other combat-related stuff, although I'm not sure what yet, that'll need to be figured out, and Systemic will provide Archetype casting like Arcane Trickster et al. Eleatic will play more a more supportive role as mentioned, using buffs and possibly healing (maybe an Inspire Competence-type feature?). Every Arithmatist will have 5 skills at 1st level, some 6 if their racial feature provides it; 8 proficiencies is the minimum at 20th, by which you'll have (fixed feature somewhat) 5 skills with +12 minimum.

I considered renaming Unarmored Defense to clarify it's a different feature - which it is, in part, due to light armor usage being an option - and may do just that, as it does look strange compared to other classes but is necessary to keep a Wizard from getting +5 AC w/out so much as breaking a sweat. Frankly, that's the scariest part of this class for me - it's an almost perfect dip for Wizard b/c of the Intelligence synergy, so I'm doing my best to ensure that it doesn't blow itself out of the water in the process. Thank you for the notes, I will be working on the archetypes to provide some combat ability.

Okay, dilemma - I want Systemic to have some spellcasting, but giving to them at 4th puts it with an ASI and putting it at 1st is...weird. Should I really rejigger the skeleton, or find another way to grant spellcasting that isn't the 1/3 casting model? Leaning towards 2nd, honestly.

[PoeticDwarf]

D8 hit die, adds Int mod to damage w/ ranged weapons (a.k.a. what I imagine a Wizard would use), Un. Def at 2nd b/c Wizards are just grr (seriously, THIS IS A BALANCING ISSUE, symmetry be damned). The Vedic school will fill in other combat-related stuff, although I'm not sure what yet, that'll need to be figured out, and Systemic will provide Archetype casting like Arcane Trickster et al. Eleatic will play more a more supportive role as mentioned, using buffs and possibly healing (maybe an Inspire Competence-type feature?). Every Arithmatist will have 5 skills at 1st level, some 6 if their racial feature provides it; 8 proficiencies is the minimum at 20th, by which you'll have (fixed feature somewhat) 5 skills with +12 minimum.

I considered renaming Unarmored Defense to clarify it's a different feature - which it is, in part, due to light armor usage being an option - and may do just that, as it does look strange compared to other classes but is necessary to keep a Wizard from getting +5 AC w/out so much as breaking a sweat. Frankly, that's the scariest part of this class for me - it's an almost perfect dip for Wizard b/c of the Intelligence synergy, so I'm doing my best to ensure that it doesn't blow itself out of the water in the process. Thank you for the notes, I will be working on the archetypes to provide some combat ability.

Okay, dilemma - I want Systemic to have some spellcasting, but giving to them at 4th puts it with an ASI and putting it at 1st is...weird. Should I really rejigger the skeleton, or find another way to grant spellcasting that isn't the 1/3 casting model? Leaning towards 2nd, honestly.

They do get some in combat stuff. But that is mainly surviving (as tanky as a bard) but without any real damage. In 80% of the campaigns I wouldn't play this class because it isn't fun in combat.

[JBPuffin]

They do get some in combat stuff. But that is mainly surviving (as tanky as a bard) but without any real damage. In 80% of the campaigns I wouldn't play this class because it isn't fun in combat.

You mean reliable damage w/out a decent Dex - adding Int to damage is quite reliable damage, the larger concern is hitting with your ranged weapon. Still unsure what to do with the archetypes - I may need to screw around with the structure to do what I want to.

[PoeticDwarf]

You mean reliable damage w/out a decent Dex - adding Int to damage is quite reliable damage, the larger concern is hitting with your ranged weapon. Still unsure what to do with the archetypes - I may need to screw around with the structure to do what I want to.

Well. So you will do, even with crossbow expert. 2d6+10 damage or something? If you use a feat for this (multiclass). It just is not enough

[Flashy]

You mean reliable damage w/out a decent Dex - adding Int to damage is quite reliable damage, the larger concern is hitting with your ranged weapon. Still unsure what to do with the archetypes - I may need to screw around with the structure to do what I want to.

1d8+6 scaling up over the course of sixteen levels to 1d8+10 is not reliable damage. It is, by a pretty substantial margin, the worst damage scaling in the game. The class is going to suffer badly at levels 5 and 11, when (most) everyone else has their scaling break points. Even leaving aside the question of at will damage, this class desperately needs options in combat other than just making a single ranged attack every round into perpetuity.

What apart from firing a low damage crossbow and being an effective skillmonkey can this class actually do? You might say that apart from the low damage that's exactly describing the rogue, but the rogue has archetypes that turn it into a jack of all trades support character, a social infiltration character, and a stealth/control caster. I would encourage you to think about fleshing out the archetypes with a range of crazy debuff, control, support, or damage powers that will allow the Arithmatist to make actual decisions in combat, and contribute outside combat in ways that don't involve personally making skill checks.

[JBPuffin]

1d8+6 scaling up over the course of sixteen levels to 1d8+10 is not reliable damage. It is, by a pretty substantial margin, the worst damage scaling in the game. The class is going to suffer badly at levels 5 and 11, when (most) everyone else has their scaling break points. Even leaving aside the question of at will damage, this class desperately needs options in combat other than just making a single ranged attack every round into perpetuity.

What apart from firing a low damage crossbow and being an effective skillmonkey can this class actually do? You might say that apart from the low damage that's exactly describing the rogue, but the rogue has archetypes that turn it into a jack of all trades support character, a social infiltration character, and a stealth/control caster. I would encourage you to think about fleshing out the archetypes with a range of crazy debuff, control, support, or damage powers that will allow the Arithmatist to make actual decisions in combat, and contribute outside combat in ways that don't involve personally making skill checks.

Yes! Thank you, that's the plan exactly. The difficulty is carving out the time to sort those out at this point.

[JBPuffin]

And here we are - the first completed protoform of the Arithmatist at your disposal.