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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class E6 Class Brainstorming. Taking the Warlock/Sorcerer Idea WAY Too Far?



johnbragg
2016-02-13, 09:09 PM
I was noodling making Wizards in my next E6 campaign more Spontaneous, with 3 Spells Known per level that they can cast spontaneously. (They can spend a day with their spellbook to swap out and learn a new Spell Known, choosing one to drop).

That obviously infringes on the Sorcerer's territory. Sure, the Sorcerer is casting more spells per day, from a selection of fewer Spells Known, but it's not that different from the revised Wizard.

But what if, like it says in the Spell Points UA SRD entry, what if we made the Sorcerer even more like a Sorcerer?
What if the magically-talented-prodigy-caster knows 1 spell per level and casts it at will?

I futzed around with some spell progressions, and decided on


Level
1st
2nd


1
1



2
2



3
3



4
3
1


5
3
2


6
3
3



So what's the worst that could happen with this setup in an E6 world?

What spells would create problems if you spammed them even more than you would when you have decent access to wands?

First thought is, Cure Light Wounds. Free, unlimited, spammable healing.
All the weapons are +1 because magic weapon. Spamming sleep, ray of enfeeblement, lesser orb of X, and the like don't concern me too much.

Spamming charm person could be a problem. Spamming summon monster I (or summon nature's ally or summon undead) could be a problem.

From the second-level lists, alter self jumps out, plus the summoning spells.
EDIT: suggestion, from the Bard list

Yes, this is a massive upgrade over the 6th level sorcerer, who knows 4 1sts (6/day), 3 2nds (5/day) and 1 3rd (3/day). But I'd like to brainstorm what it would look like.

Cosi
2016-02-14, 04:22 PM
At-will powers become potentially problematic when you get something at-will that can be repeated for credit in downtime. Nobody really cares if your fireball is at-will instead of 3/day because you can only (profitably) cast it if there are enemies to kill.

You also seem to be letting them pilfer off of other lists, which is a whole different problem. In this situation the best build is something like:

1st - Druid mass snake's swiftness (double your party's damage output)
2nd - charm person (double your party)
3rd - Trapsmith haste (more attacks)
4th - Paladin lesser restoration, cure light wounds, or minor image plus Death Master animate dead (more minions!)
5th - See above, plus alter self or heroics
6th - See above

That's probably close to ideal for an adventurer, but these guys are going to be in super high demand for society. At-will goodberry revolutionizes agriculture, and various healing spells at-will drop mortality dramatically. whispering wind gives you something close to the telegraph, summoning is obviously good, and there's other stuff (like stone shape) that can be great if you access the right lists.

johnbragg
2016-02-14, 05:25 PM
At-will powers become potentially problematic when you get something at-will that can be repeated for credit in downtime. Nobody really cares if your fireball is at-will instead of 3/day because you can only (profitably) cast it if there are enemies to kill.

You also seem to be letting them pilfer off of other lists, which is a whole different problem. In this situation the best build is something like:

1st - Druid mass snake's swiftness (double your party's damage output)
2nd - charm person (double your party)
3rd - Trapsmith haste (more attacks)
4th - Paladin lesser restoration, cure light wounds, or minor image plus Death Master animate dead (more minions!)
5th - See above, plus alter self or heroics
6th - See above

That's probably close to ideal for an adventurer, but these guys are going to be in super high demand for society. At-will goodberry revolutionizes agriculture, and various healing spells at-will drop mortality dramatically. whispering wind gives you something close to the telegraph, summoning is obviously good, and there's other stuff (like stone shape) that can be great if you access the right lists.

Snake's swiftness by itself isn't world-breaking--your party's best warrior gets an extra attack at the cost of your standard action. But mass snakes' swiftness is given as a second level Druid spell, halfway to haste. If it's a legitimate second-level Druid effect, everybody gets 2 attacks as long as they clump up.

I'm not pulling the trigger on list pilfering (if I do, it means I collapse the entire arcane/divine split completely, which means I have to think again about how many spells known the heavy-lifting caster has.). It's that, if there's a special-snowflake Arcane SuperSorcerer, there could be a special-snowflake SuperFavored Soul.

I need a rule about Spell level priority. Spells are at their Cleric/Druid/Wizard lowest listed level, Others (Bard, PAladin, Ranger, domain, Beguiler, etc etc) at the listed level if it's a spell unique to the class. So Suggestion is out. (Most of the damage there can be done with spamming Charm Person anyway.)

Out-of-the-box SuperFavored Soul would be something like CLW, Something, something, Mass Snakes' Swiftness, something something.

Cosi
2016-02-14, 05:39 PM
Snake's swiftness by itself isn't world-breaking--your party's best warrior gets an extra attack at the cost of your standard action. But mass snakes' swiftness is given as a second level Druid spell, halfway to haste. If it's a legitimate second-level Druid effect, everybody gets 2 attacks as long as they clump up.

D'oh. I confused myself. You are correct that it belongs at 2nd level, where I think it is better than heroics. It gives everybody in close range a bonus attack, which is not much for your party, but rather a lot for your horde of Undead or charmed allies.


I need a rule about Spell level priority. Spells are at their Cleric/Druid/Wizard lowest listed level, Others (Bard, PAladin, Ranger, domain, Beguiler, etc etc) at the listed level if it's a spell unique to the class. So Suggestion is out. (Most of the damage there can be done with spamming Charm Person anyway.)

This is a good rule. If you're doing this, I'd probably give them one third level spell, because their high end is a little weak.


Out-of-the-box SuperFavored Soul would be something like CLW, Something, something, Mass Snakes' Swiftness, something something.

I would not ask them to trade of cure light wounds with combat options. The Cleric doesn't have to do it and neither should they. I might do:

1 - "SLA", cure light wounds, maybe Domain
2 - "SLA", something divine (maybe a Devotion feat)
3 - "SLA", lesser restoration
4 - "SLA", Domain (or something else divine)
5 - "SLA", cure 3rd level wounds
6 - "SLA", some resurrection effect (probably the SpC one that only works within rounds/level)

That's more class features than most people get from 1 - 6, but IMHO published classes are to sparse for a satisfying E6 experience.

You could make everybody go to recharge magic, but that warps things around spell knowledge pretty heavily.