View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Living Legend-Base Class

2016-02-16, 11:06 PM
Moved to the Dungeon Master's Guild, at least temporarily. Still have a copy saved on Google Docs, so don't worry, it won't be lost to the ether.

And Living Legend is now a Pay What You Want title! Enjoy the free PDF here: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/175186/Living-Legend-Base-Class-For-5E

2016-02-17, 01:01 AM
Alright, let's address this one step at a time:

Hit Points

d10 is a good base for a LEGENDARY FIGURE, regardless of what they end up doing, but it seems to land them solidly in the "beatstick" category of combatants, at least traditionally.


The saves appropriate for a LEGENDARY FIGURE are very debatable, but I suppose Wisdom and Charisma make their minds a vault that cannot be entered, which is pretty appropriate for the genre such beings generally are a part of (where their willpower and force of personality are a large part of what makes them so hard to keep down). Maybe it's just me, but it feels like History should be on their Skill Proficiency list as an option...but then, that's easy enough to get from a background, and it's not necessarily something I could see a lot of LEGENDARY FIGURES having easy access to, so it's a minor complaint.

Starting Equipment

Looks pretty solid all-around, gives a nice variety to choose from within certain limits.


First thing: while it's obvious from the table that this kicks in at 1st level, making sure the level number makes it into the description is helpful. Minor typo, but I'll be mentioning those, since they help clean up the 'brew to be a bit more presentable. Second thing, also obvious: The Third Path remains undefined, so it cannot be addressed currently. Third thing: while called "Character", this is really tied more to reputation than it is to alignment; I don't have a problem with this, partially because the current LEGENDARY FIGURE this class reminds me of is OTHAR TRYGGVASSEN, GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER!!!! and he's a perfect example of a Hero who's actually pretty villainous.

Legendary Deeds

I like that the number of deeds you get scales by squaring your level, but there's something that make this ability hard to judge as-is: when are they regained, after a long rest, a short rest, when you level up, what? An argument could be made for either, although it feels to me like it was meant to recharge on a long rest. It's possible I just missed it or something, and for that I apologize, but with how many things are based off of deeds, it makes it hard to judge whether they're appropriate for how often they can come up.

I Am A Hero/I Am A Villain

Purely social benefit, no mechanical effect. I'm not really sure what mechanical effect would be appropriate either; most likely, this would be something best played by ear, be it advantage/disadvantage on Charisma checks for those that react well/poorly to your reputation, or something else.

Write This Down

I like this ability a lot; it gives the player a useful ability that becomes even more useful if they're particularly creative with it...and the 1/short rest limit means that particularly creative players won't be able to abuse it to high heaven either. Nice.

Fighting Style

It feels a bit weird giving them access to any Fighting Style, since only fighters can currently do that, but I guess it's not really overpowered, especially for a 2nd lvl ability.

My Story Will Be Told

The first part is a useful defensive ability; the second is a hilarious social benefit that your character is unlikely to personally take advantage of (outside the obvious set-up for "the rumors you've heard of my death were...greatly exaggerated"). I like this ability, although the defensive benefit almost feels a bit weak for a lvl 3 ability; this is when most classes get a serious boost in their abilities, and you just get some more deeds and the ability to maybe not die once a day against something that wasn't likely to result in your death anyway. Maybe I'm underestimating it, though.

Second Deed

"Deeds of Kindness" seems to change deeds into HP at a 1:1 ratio; that seems...strange to me, as does the limit per-use, rather than a more total limit (other than deed total). However, the thing I like about this one is that, unlike most methods of healing, you can choose the exact number of points you're healing, and so there's no potential of falling short of what you wanted, or wasting extra healing that wasn't needed (issues that come up with most die-based healing methods). Note: this gets a lot stronger if the intention was that Deeds recharge on a short rest, rendering my issues with this much less valid.

"Deeds of Valor" seems kinda weird to me; advantage on saves vs fear for 1 minute? I guess the duration is useful if you fail your initial save against Frightful Presence, but beyond that it seems odd.

"Deeds of Might" seems weird as well, particularly in comparison to the previous "Deeds of Valor": that one gave advantage on particular saves for a minute, while this gives advantage on particularly ability checks for a round...and yet, despite my gut saying that advantage on ability checks is generally weaker than saves, and the duration being shorter, it costs more. It's alright, I guess, since Str checks are often abused for grappling and tripping combos (which this class can't pull off anyway, having only the one attack to work with), but Con checks? I've yet to see anybody make a Con check (saves sure, but those are different). That means that advantage on Str checks is what makes this ability particularly powerful in comparison to the other deeds.

"Deeds of Arcana" is what really makes me scratch my head at Deeds of Might. For starters, you don't have to choose the spell you're mimicing when you select this Deed at level-up, you select it when you use the deed, making it far more versatile than the other deeds. But then, versatility isn't everything, how's it compare on power? Well, it lets you replicate "Cure Wounds (2nd)" for 10 points; that gives you 2d8 points of healing as opposed to the 10 points you'd get from 'Deeds of Kindness"; 10 points is more than the average of 2d8 (but only barely) and it's more dependable, but it's still pretty close. Of course, if "Deeds of Arcana" is used to replicate "Prayer of Healing", it goes way ahead, but that's not as combat-useful as "Deeds of Kindness", so I'll let that slide. Now comparing "Arcana" to "Valor", we see that the "Calm Emotions" spell can be replicated; to be clear, where Valor let you spend 3 points to give a person advantage on saves vs fear for a minute, Arcana lets you make every humanoid withing 20 ft stop being frightened for a minute, forget about making saves. Sure, it's the equivalent of 3 people getting advantage on the saves, but that still seems like a significant upgrade. Now let's compare Arcana to Might: the Enlarge use of "Enlarge/Reduce" grants you reach, +1d4 damage with weapons, advantage on Str saves, and advantage on Str checks, all for a minute. Certainly a useful spell, but even if it was just the advantage on Str checks (which is basically all Might gives you), it costs just twice as much and yet lasts 10 times as long.

And beyond just replicating/outdoing the other three deeds in direct competition, you can access any other 0th, 1st, or 2nd lvl spell with this. Sure, it's the most expensive of the deeds, but that doesn't fix the others being weak by direct comparison. My suggestion would be to increase the power of the other three to be worth taking even though this one gives you a lot of versatility...either that or take this one down a couple notches, so that it doesn't let you act as if you chose "D, All Of The Above", the way it does now. The sole thing even vaguely balancing this out is the Concentration rules, but having comparable power and superior versatility more than makes up for that potential flaw in this particular deed.

Noble Sacrifice

I like this ability: it's mechanically interesting, gives you a way to actually tank blows for your allies, and can give you some interesting tactical options if you have multiple heroes in the same party:

*dragon uses four attacks on the War Cleric*

*all four of the War Clerics "Hero" allies tank a shot for her, giving her about 100 extra HP (or temp HP) to work with*

Sure, that's probably not ideal strategically, but it's hilarious to me.

You Die, Not Me

This feels incredibly appropriate, and allows a charismatic villain to surround themselves with minions without having to worry about incoming AoEs.

Third Deed

As discussed more in-depth above, this is pointless if your second deed was Arcana; I guess it can't totally replicate Kindness, so that would be my choice, but I'd rather the four be put in better balance, so that this choice isn't "I guess I'll take the one that's outshined the least".

I Am Known

This ability is nice for both heroes and villains, and helps establish this class as a serious large-battle-influence, which most 1st party classes have trouble filling to quite this degree (they can fill it on a smaller scale often, but 120' aura? That's impressive).

Inspiring Aura

Other than clarifying that this only lets allies remain in the fight if they would be dying (rather than dying or dead), this feels solid to me. If it was also meant to apply to allies that would've died, it becomes a lot more questionable.

Aura of Menace

I love this ability. Cutting off access to healing is a great way to get your enemies to realize how serious a fight they're in for, and it serves as a minor form of BFC.

Fourth Deed

Since Valor and Might don't exactly thrill me, I see no reason not to take one of the new deeds as my fourth. Let's see how useful they are...I'll address Ferocity first: this seems to me like a fairly useful ability, since you only get one attack per round anyway. So what you're looking at in a round is moving twice your speed, making two attack rolls, and dealing normal damage if either attack roll hits, and that's what you do for a full minute. That seems pretty nice...except you can do even better by using "Greater Arcana" to replicate "Haste": Haste doubles your speed and gives you an extra action you can use to attack. Even ignoring the other effects of Haste (+2 AC, advantage on Dex saves, able to use the extra action for other things), that means that by using Haste, what you're looking at in a round is moving twice your speed, making two attack rolls, and dealing normal damage if either attack roll hits (or double normal damage if both hit), which makes it objectively better than Ferocity (once again, with the sole exception that this would be subject to the Concentration rules); the rider at the end of Haste barely ever comes up in actual combat, since few fights lasts more than 10 rounds. Oh yeah, and Haste can be cast on somebody other than yourself.

And once again, that's ignoring that the magic Deed can be used for a lot of things other than making Ferocity look terrible by comparison. Unlike before, though, these two deeds cost exactly the same.

Fifth Deed

...how do I choose? I can have wannabe!Haste, wannabe!Calm Emotions, or super-wannabe!Enlarge. I guess the one that's least irrelevant is Valor at this point, since it's possible that only one person will need the advantage vs fear saves, and so it won't be worth spending 10 points replicating Calm Emotions to affect just one person. As before, make the deeds more in line with each other, particularly the ones that are available at the same level together.

Villain's Bane/Hero's Bane

Pretty simple and straightforward, but also effective. This feels right, and the "or unrepentant {blank}" part leaves it open to interpretation in situations where the others wouldn't apply but it feels like it should work.

I Am Legend

This feels awesome: this lets your Hero/Villain begin to really have a major impact on multiple massive battles with ease...allowing them to seriously affect the outcome of wars, if done right. Actually, I'd love to see the finished product here alongside some high-level mages in a war game of some kind.

A True Hero/A True Villain

A slight upgrade to all previous abilities gained from the sub-class. It ups the power of each individual option, but not so much that it feels overpowered. This feels right, and it's awesome.

Sixth Deed

Finally, a deed that can't be replicated via the magic deed available at the same level! I mean, sure, it's Foresight at 1/480th the duration, but who cares? Foresight's awesome! Foresight for 4 minutes/day is debatably awesomer than "4 spells level 8 spells per day"...although now that I think on it, nobody can do that, and you can snipe spells from any list. Maybe this magic one should be limited to "you can only mimic 5th, 6th, 7th, or 8th level spells once per day using this ability", to keep people from getting 4 8th lvl spells a day when nobody else in the game can do that. Also, maybe the Foresight duration could be longer? I dunno, I'm not sure how long to make it, but 1/480th of its normal duration seems weird to me.

My Story

Alright, so here's the capstone: a no-save domination effect that bypasses most immunities, but can only be used on typical NPCs (and even then, has limited uses per day). This feels appropriately powerful, while not going too powerful, but I feel it could get a bit more versatile without being overdone. Perhaps Cha+Proficiency could be the limit? Also, can you control multiple people at once with the single bonus action, or are you limited to one Story Slave at a time?

2016-02-17, 01:07 AM
Few minor things-Deeds recharge on a long rest. (I forgot to include that.)

This class actually does gain extra attack-I just didn't list it for the same reason I didn't list ASIs-it's bleeding obvious.

And if you have suggestions on how to power up the various deeds or ideas for more, that would be fantastic-I feel that's the weak part of the class at the moment.

And the Third Path will be worked on, just not right now. Bed time.

2016-02-17, 01:35 AM
This sounds pretty cool. First, legendary deed needs a max (for examole two times level in this class). Second, when you can cast a spell. Make it only sorcerer or bard list (maybe wizard idk) but now it's a little too big and it's called ARCANE

About the system. I have the feeling that with points as a monk it would be easier and work better. I'm not too sure about that.

I think the class is allright. The poster before me gave more feedback and I agree with it.

After bit changing on this the class sounds awesome.

2016-02-17, 02:35 AM
This sounds pretty cool. First, legendary deed needs a max (for examole two times level in this class). Second, when you can cast a spell. Make it only sorcerer or bard list (maybe wizard idk) but now it's a little too big and it's called ARCANE

About the system. I have the feeling that with points as a monk it would be easier and work better. I'm not too sure about that.

I think the class is allright. The poster before me gave more feedback and I agree with it.

After bit changing on this the class sounds awesome.

Legendary Deeds is currently limited to spending a maximum of (proficiency bonus) points in a particular round on that damage-boosting Deed.

Few minor things-Deeds recharge on a long rest. (I forgot to include that.)

This class actually does gain extra attack-I just didn't list it for the same reason I didn't list ASIs-it's bleeding obvious.

And if you have suggestions on how to power up the various deeds or ideas for more, that would be fantastic-I feel that's the weak part of the class at the moment.

And the Third Path will be worked on, just not right now. Bed time.

Long rest is about what I expected.

ASIs are automatic for all classes, and are only different in Core for Rogue and Fighter; they're generally assumed. Most classes don't get Extra Attack, so it's worth mentioning (although I will say this class definitely felt like it should have extra attack).

My first idea for fixing the deeds is to have them all be spell replicators, but have them fit a theme (and have different costs for each level of spell). As an example, you could set the cost for replicating a spell in a slot of level X at appropriate levels, likely using some kind of power function as was used for determining total Deeds/day; furthermore, each Deed grants access to a few particular spells (Kindness could give Spare The Dying, Cure Wounds, and Lesser Restoration, while Valor could grant Resistance, Bless, and Aid). Next deed level up gives you a 3rd and 4th lvl spell to work with (also within some kind of theme, but not necessarily the same theme as the others), and next deed level up gives you a 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th lvl spell to work with. That idea could be pretty balanced across the board, and would allow for more control over what could and couldn't be combined/replicated...and therefore allowing other deeds to be more unique effects. But then the non-casting deeds would still need a boost, as they do now.

My second idea for fixing deeds is bringing those other deeds up to par with spells power-wise while doing stuff spells can't really do. The direction I think this should be taken in is making them bigger AoEs like the inspiration ability (the 120' aura one), except maybe scaled back to 60' aura or something like that. Sure, Calm Emotions may affect every ally within 20' and make them immune to fear, but what if Deeds of Valor let you throw out an aura that, for one minute, gave everybody within 60' advantage on saves vs fear? By changing it from individual targets to a large AoE that has a weaker effect, you've done something that's on par with getting three spells to use via a spell point system. Maybe each deed could give an expensive aura option in addition to a few usable spells or something. Valor could give everybody within 60' the aforementioned advantage on saves vs fear, Kindness could give every healing effect used within 60' by allies on allies extra healing equal to your Cha mod, Might could be half proficiency to all non-proficient physical ability checks.

The final result: your Hero/Villain has some useful spells they can throw around, for a price, and their auras are useful for dungeon delving parties...but that's not where their strength lies. Your Hero/Villain's true strength is in their ability to inspire massive armies to follow their lead, through sheer reputation and force of personality. Most heroes make themselves into demigods; you make yourself a charismatic warrior who can turn an army of nobodies into a band of badasses. With the right Deed auras and spells, you could make builds that emulate Eragon, Robin Hood, Aragorn, and many other powerfully inspiring heroes; you could make builds that emulate Kuvira, King Sombra, Ganondorf, Visser Three, and many other terrifyingly awesome villains.

2016-02-17, 02:51 AM
Final point worth mentioning: does the class have a name? The title implies it to be "My Deeds Are Legend", but that seems like a mouthful.

2016-02-17, 10:47 AM
Yeah, I'm really not sure what to name it. I've got class in 10 minutes, so I can't work on it now, but once that's over I'll take your words into account and try to improve the deeds.

2016-02-17, 01:27 PM
Minor modifications to early deeds. Need more high level deeds-any suggestions?

Edit: Completed the Third Path. Not sure I'm happy with it. Suggestions welcome.

2016-02-17, 03:05 PM
First, I like the direction the deeds are going in; here's a few ideas of mine for higher level (and other lower level) deeds:

5th lvl Deeds

Deeds of Shadow: Ghost Sound, Disguise Self, Pass Without Trace

11th lvl Deeds

Deeds of Mobility: Haste, Freedom of Movement

Deeds of Witchcraft: Bestow Curse, Blight

18th lvl Deeds

Deeds of Destruction: Cloudkill, Disintegrate, Fire Storm, Earthquake

...more deed ideas will come later, probably.

The Third Path

I Am-One who walks the Third Path has an undeniable presence. At level 1, people take notice of you-they don't know what it is about you, but you are truly present in a way many are not.

Death Is Not The End-Beginning at level 6, your death is not the end of your story. You may always choose to come back, be it as a ghost, revenant, other creature, be reincarnated, or something similar. In addition, you are now able to use My Story Will Be Told Charisma modifier times per long rest.

Aura of Being-At 10th level, one who walks the Third Path radiates an aura in 10'. Within this aura, allies are invigorated and enemies are made less. Allies who benefit from healing regain extra hit points equal to the spell level times your Charisma modifier (for non-spell healing, such as the Healer feat or potions, find the closest equivalent spell for spell level) and enemies take extra damage equal to your Charisma modifier every time they take damage.

Bane-Starting at 14th level, one who walks the Third Path may choose something to be the bane of. This must be a relatively narrow concept, such as dragons, the Harkonnen nation, or people who truly upset the world's balance. Against anyone who is your bane, your attacks deal an extra 1d8 points of damage.

I Truly Am-At 17th level, one who walks the Third Path is more truly there than ever before. Their aura extends to 30', their bane improves to 2d6, and they are now able to use My Story Will Be Told Charisma modifier times per short rest.

This sub-class seems focused on making yourself a presence without a reputation, which isn't quite what the other classes are going for. Your story is not the path of the hero or the villain, but rather you are a man in the middle. But you have a reputation as such a person, rather than simply a presence from your being, and this should reflect that a bit more IMO. Unfortunately, I'm not really sure how to reflect that; the best I can think of is changing the aura to more of an Aura of Mystery, suppressing/disrupting/weakening divinations targeted at things within the aura, or giving disadvantage on saves vs charmed- or frightened-causing effects, but that still doesn't quite feel right. I'm not sure...

2016-02-17, 04:10 PM
I really great class. I feel like it is more story than mechanics focused, which I like.

The third path is a really cool subclass. I feel like it is about freedom. And most of all, being the last one standing. Even when you are dust, your enemies still fear you.

"I am not defined by my labels. I am not defined by my birthright, my deals, my rage, or the evil and good inside me. I am defined by my actions. I am free to do as I want, and let the rest of the world see me however they please."
"I am free."

2016-02-17, 05:08 PM
New deeds added, as suggested by AvatarVecna.

And thank you, Belac.

2016-02-17, 06:00 PM
Firstly, as previously mentioned, Deeds Of Ferocity is outclassed by Haste...now even more than before, since Haste costs less to use. As a suggestion, perhaps the current DoF could be replaced with one that instead grants Crusader's Mantle and Fire Shield could be useful?

Also, a few other deeds:

Deeds of Fortitude: Dispel Magic (3rd), Death Ward (4th); I'm not too fond of the name, but it's what I could think of for this defensive deed.

Deeds of Foresight: Legend Lore (5th), Find the Path (6th), ? (7th), Mind Blank (8th). Legend Lore, Find The Path, and Mind Blank could each be switched out for another spell easily: Scrying, True Seeing, and Telepathy, respectively. Also, I just couldn't think of what might fit the vague mental theme for the lvl 7 spell, and the name bugs me. There's something of an idea here, but it's not really complete yet.

Deeds of Trickery: Dream (5th), Mass Suggestion (6th), Project Image (7th), Glibness (8th). Dream could be replaced with Mislead, although I prefer Dream for personal reasons; it seems more fun.

Deeds of Comedy: Vicious Mockery (0th), Tasha's Hideous Laughter (1st), Silence (2nd). Silence only really fits with either mime comedy or some forms of slapstick, and it's the first thing I thought of (and the only thing that seemed to have a really obvious way to work). Still, feel free to replace that one if you wish, as it fits the theme the least of the three.

2016-02-17, 06:12 PM
Probably enough deeds for now.

I think this class is done! Please feel free to continue critiquing it, as I'm sure it can be better, but I feel good with it as it stands for now.

2016-02-18, 10:38 PM
Renamed to "Living Legend".

2016-02-19, 01:58 AM
Renamed to "Living Legend".

Seems fitting, think this is finished too. Don't see big issues any more.

2016-03-02, 06:28 PM
Living Legend is now available free (as a Pay What You Want title) over here: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/175186/Living-Legend-Base-Class-For-5E.