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will.h
2007-06-18, 01:47 PM
Whats a good class/prestige class combo for a polearm specialist?

Draz74
2007-06-18, 02:42 PM
Warblade? Or Fighter 2 / Warblade X.

The Great Skenardo
2007-06-18, 02:46 PM
A good feat to take is Spinning Halberd from CW. It basically enables you make an extra attack at a -5 to hit each round you make a Full Attack.

A halberd doesn't have reach, though, which might have been your intent with polearms.

Black Hand
2007-06-18, 03:47 PM
Ah! I have a dragon mag at home that gives details on polearms as well as some interesting feats. I'll find out what drag # it is along with the list of feats there.

From what I read there, a good mix class-wise would be a monk-fighter mix...in fact a cool idea would be taking 2 lvls in fighter, Psychic Warrior (for that cool up the walls feat), then the rest in monk.

From what I remember of the feats would be:

-Short haft: Hit enemies that are close to you (usually you can't) at -2 to hit.

-Spinning defence: +1 dodge bonus to Ac on full defensive move, as well as allowed to do deflect arrows unlimited during the move.

-Long reach: For one attack get 5' added onto your reach (Awl pike excluded)

-Pole vault: Can't remmeber details, but the name says it all.

-There was also a balancing type feat too.
-And another monk-type feat that allows the chosen weapon to be part of your monk weapons in regards to flurry of blows.

Matthew
2007-06-18, 11:22 PM
I'm going to say Fighter or Barbarian as a Base Class...

Seffbasilisk
2007-06-18, 11:47 PM
I'd say a dip into Lion-Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion, maybe go with the Whirling frenzy variant for another attack, dip fighter for a level or two for feats, and then pure warblade.

Damionte
2007-06-18, 11:57 PM
What theme do you want? All of the classes above can make a good pole arm specialists. What kind of theme, both char wise, as well as in combat do you want?

will.h
2007-06-19, 12:39 AM
Right, that might help. Im real new here guys so be patient with me.

First off I want him low magic...but at the same time I want to keep him fairly versatile, I don't really care if he's just super bad ass because Im more in it for the roleplaying anyways, hes actually got pretty high charisma so if you can utilize that, that would be nice. He's only got a 12 in CON and hes not gonna be the partys main fighter, I just want him to be able to deal out some damage when necassary. Any help is appriciated!

Oh and I've only got a core book, so while names like swordsage and warblade sound awesome, I don't really know what they are, not that I'm against it just a little explination would be nice :smallbiggrin:

skywalker
2007-06-19, 01:32 AM
Names like Swordsage and Warblade are from Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords, which is almost exclusively highly regarded. What do you know about Tome of Battle? Basically, the Warblade is a fighter with attitude, the ability to do rather unique things compared to the standard fighter, and not be reduced to "I attack, again" which is a standard complaint made by fighters, that casters have many more options, and are also vastly more powerful than fighters. You should see if any of your friends or DM has Tome of Battle, if not, try looking at a used book store, because it is an incredible book.

Lion-totem Barbarian is rapidly becoming well-known because in exchange for fast movement, the character gains the ability to make a full attack at the end of a charge, instead of just one attack.

Also, I pose the question to all you rules-lawyers and real-world experts, why the hell doesn't a halberd have reach?!

Leon
2007-06-19, 01:37 AM
-Short haft: Hit enemies that are close to you (usually you can't) at -2 to hit.


no -2, Swift Action to lose Reach

Amiria
2007-06-19, 01:41 AM
Also, I pose the question to all you rules-lawyers and real-world experts, why the hell doesn't a halberd have reach?!

Hmm, because it would then be too good to be a martial weapon ?

If you want a halberd with reach, then take the Dwarven Warpike from RoS, because that's what it is. The best polarm in D&D, well worth the feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

skywalker
2007-06-19, 01:47 AM
Hmm, because it would then be too good to be a martial weapon ?

If you want a halberd with reach, then take the Dwarven Warpike from RoS, because that's what it is. The best polarm in D&D, well worth the feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency.


So long as it is just a pure balance question, I totally understand. It just seemed a glaring inaccuracy, that a halberd wouldn't be a reach weapon.

But no, I dig it, I'm not particularly interested in pole-arms at the moment, although I will keep that in mind if I ever do get interested. Honestly, though, I think my DM would rule that it's silly to say a halberd doesn't have reach, simply for balance purposes, so I doubt it would matter.

Pestlepup
2007-06-19, 04:23 AM
If you're going more for flavor, you've got a lot of interesting options. Depending on your group's gaming style and campaign flavor, of course. Some DMs are more accommodating to the fluffy characters than others. (I have, for example, an exalted peacemongering pacifistic-ascetic paladin with high charisma and wisdom, along with low strength [9 to be precise], that I wouldn't even dream of playing with in a standard hack-and-slash campaign.)

But I'd recommend Fighter as a base class. The thing I've always loved about 3rd ed Fighters is the massive amount of feats that just keep piling on each other. (Getting a feat at almost every level is like having christmas come around twice a year.)

Next, consider your character concept. A halberd or somesuch could go well with a spanish-style soldier for instance (Think breastplate and colorful clothes, perhaps a friendly and open personality, but with an edge of authority. Good team-player.) that doesn't so much specialize in the weapon itself, but rather combat in general. Of course, Weapon Focus/Specialization don't need to be left out. It just might be fun to have some nice tactical feats, perhaps an Improved Trip or the like, Daunting Presence (I think it was...) to take advantage of your charisma and so on. I'll look up more feats for you when I get the chance. Your specific choice of weapon will of course influence the overall feel of the character, so once you've got that part figured out, let us know.

As for skywalker's reach question, the reason could be that it doesn't have it. At least not a longer reach than, say, a bastard sword. Now, I've only trained with a poleaxe (Or so it's called. Resembles something that I'd probably claim to be Bec-de-corbin.), so I might be off with this, but the long handle doesn't actually grant that big a reach (at least in D&D terms) because the precise handling of the weapon requires a rather wide grip. A bastard sword's generally about 4' long with 3' for the blade, and while a halberd is clearly longer, most of it's length is "not in use". That's not to say it's useless, since the haft is as equally a weapon as the blade, but most of the reach is "lost" in the handling. I'd assume that a halberd would have a longer reach than my poleaxe, but it still would only just about equal or slightly exceed that of a bastard sword. Of course, it's possible to make sudden thrusts (if it has a spear tip) that use most of the haft's length, but standard fighting by holding on the other end of the polearm would not only look incredibly silly, but be incredibly ineffective as well. Pole weapons are versatile and deceptively fast, but not that well known.

Droodle
2007-06-19, 05:40 AM
-Short haft: Hit enemies that are close to you (usually you can't) at -2 to hit.
no -2, Swift Action to lose ReachWhich reminds me, Shorten Grip (from DR331) is a much better feat than Short Haft. Instead of using a swift action to forfeit your reach for a full round, Shorten Reach allows you to attack adjacent foes at a -2 penalty without forfeiting your reach. If you are looking to play a versatile reach fighter who can make attacks of opportunity, whirlwinds, and full attacks against everyone in range, instead of spending a feat on the Spiked Chain (and having everyone ask if you'd like a little wine with your cheese), just take Shorten Grip and use a Guisarme or whatever else floats your boat.

Pestlepup
2007-06-19, 06:17 AM
So long as it is just a pure balance question, I totally understand. It just seemed a glaring inaccuracy, that a halberd wouldn't be a reach weapon.

Just popped into my mind, that almost all pole weapons with long reach are spear-variants of sorts, since having a slashing blade at the end of a very long haft makes it slow and harder to handle. As the haft lengthens, the required range of motion to strike grows proportionally, making the weapon effectively slower. Most likely it will also require more strength, since to take advantage of the reach, you can't hold the weapon as close to its center of gravity as one might like. Either that, or the haft becomes so long that it seriously limits the angle of strikes, making it a bit too easy to defend against. Now thrusting, on the other hand, is relatively fast and reliable even with longer weapons, and doesn't require as much vertical range of motion as slashing weapons.

Of course, then it breaks down to D&D's idea of reach. But if dagger has the same effective range as a greatsword, halberd should be within those same limits. Think of it as a way to simulate a halberd's effective range, rather than its maximum possible range (for thrusts, that is).

Droodle
2007-06-19, 06:22 AM
@Pestlepup: The reason may even be simpler than that. Most (martial) Pole weapons have 2 out of 3 attributes....Set, Reach, or Trip. Since the Halberd gets Set and Trip, it doesn't get reach. It isn't a good reason (and may not even be the right reason), but it is a reason.

Callix
2007-06-19, 06:26 AM
Droodle, this also explains the spiked chain. It gets all 3, and is thus exotic. It's just the ability to also attack adjacent enemies that makes it Utterly, Utterly Broken. Aside from that, it seems like a good rule of thumb and mechanical explanation. The real-world stuff helps too.

Pestlepup
2007-06-19, 06:43 AM
You may be right Droodle. After some checking, not even some those polearms that are listed as having reach should actually have it. Rules dictate that glaive can be used to strike enemies 10' away, which is rather silly when the entire length of the weapon, blade included, is around 7' or 8'. That would give an effective range of, say, 6½' tops. Techically speaking it would reach over a single combat grid square, but so would a greatsword. Go figure. Then again, a bastard sword should weigh around 2-4 pounds and be primarily a two-handed weapon. At six pounds it would be way too heavy to be used effectively.

But D&D is not about accurate combat simulation. Nor it should be. Accuracy tends to bog down combat, and I have an appreciation for fluency. Even if it means putting up with silly situations from time to time.

Kurald Galain
2007-06-19, 07:05 AM
It strikes me that NO character in NO roleplaying game whatsoever ever used anything even remotely resembling a spiked chain, until D&D 3E, at which point they became rather popular.

Matthew
2007-06-19, 07:11 AM
Well, actually, Pole Arms could vary in length from 4'+. Mechanically, the Halberd doesn't have Reach because it would be rather good, but bear in mind also that the Spear doesn't have Reach either. Take a look at the (mainly unrealistic) weapon illustrations in the PHB and you'll soon notice that weapons with Reach are twice as long as the Spear. Comparatively speaking, the illustrations give the impression that weapons with Reach are 12' long, but that's hardly definitive.

A Halberd is basically a Great Axe with a spike at the top, but there's nothing stopping you creating a 'Long Halberd', if you want one with Reach.

AtomicKitKat
2007-06-19, 07:24 AM
I remember them using chains in River City Ransom(old NES game), and it's an old favourite of gangs. It's not hard to imagine them wrapping some bicycle spokes or glass in the ends, which would be a more realistic "spiked chain" than the monstrosity in the PHB that threatens to gouge your own hands the moment you even touch it, never mind wielding.

Pestlepup
2007-06-19, 07:25 AM
Matthew: True, polearms vary in size quite a bit, but they do have effective maximum lengths. That is, a point after which the length of the weapon becomes more of a detriment than benefit. You are correct, though, in that the PHB doesn't exactly portray the weapons in an overly realistic manner.

And I'll give a medal to anyone who can decipher a way of fighting with Dire Flail without bludgeoning oneself to death. (Well, there's one, but it'll only kill from laughter.)

AtomicKitKat
2007-06-19, 08:06 AM
And I'll give a medal to anyone who can decipher a way of fighting with Dire Flail without bludgeoning oneself to death. (Well, there's one, but it'll only kill from laughter.)

Sling the middle over your shoulders like a harness, and swing your shoulders back and forth. :smalltongue:

Spiryt
2007-06-19, 08:11 AM
Sling the middle over your shoulders like a harness, and swing your shoulders back and forth. :smalltongue:

Better sling it in the middle over your shoulder and start turning around as fast as you can.

will.h
2007-06-19, 04:07 PM
Alright I'll fill you guys in a little bit more on my character and concept,

In the setting he's from a country very similar to the Roman Empire...however its pretty flexible, so things like weapons and armor dont have to match exactly the romans, In the setting he's only 14 right now (all the characters are starting off between 12-15) We don't even have any class levels yet (just aristocrat, expert, or warrior) I chose expert just because I want him to be versatile, while our DM wants us to have some sort of idea where there character will end up, he doesnt want us to attached to one idea or another.

His stats are
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 14

I picture his fighting style like Achilles and Hector on the movie troy or with a little mixture of (if you've ever played) dynasty warriors. So while he trains for a "roman" type army I dont want him hidden behind a shield just stabbing people, cause how much fun is that? Also I picture his attitude much Like Octavian from the HBO series ROME if you have seen that you'll know what I mean (first season Octavian) I know its complicated but I really appriciate all the help you guys have givin so far. Also I dont have any weapons resources really so I just know the Simple, Martial, and Exotic weapons from the SRD. So if you could give some stats with any weapons found elsewhere.

So really this is what Im looking for:
Applicable classes
Feats (explanations included if not on SRD)
Weapons (same)
Armor (Same)

Initially he's not going to be a great fighter, I don't exactly know where I'm going with him but the DM is giving us some additional ability points at level 2 and 6.

Really appriciate all the help guys, if I'm asking too much just let me know!!!

skywalker
2007-06-19, 04:11 PM
I'm also of the opinion that it's just a balance question, if a glaive has reach, if a freakin' ranseur has reach, then a halberd should also have reach, at least on the piercing damage. If you're going to set the damn thing against a charge, realistically, it has to have reach to be set against a charge. I'm not particularly interested in using one, I was jw.

sleeping fishy
2007-06-19, 04:12 PM
Droodle, this also explains the spiked chain. It gets all 3, and is thus exotic. It's just the ability to also attack adjacent enemies that makes it Utterly, Utterly Broken. Aside from that, it seems like a good rule of thumb and mechanical explanation. The real-world stuff helps too.

wtf?? the spiked chain isnt broken! who cares if you can attack close enemies? just wear armor spikes... or TAKE 5' STEPS!! the spiked chains pretty good, but armor spikes+reach weapon does the same, and doesnt waste a feat... spiked chain is just one of the few exotic wpns worth a feat! (cmon, bastard sword... 1d10 vs. longsword 1d8? YEAH i am blowin a feat on that WOOOOOOOO...)

Kurobara
2007-06-19, 07:18 PM
If you had a little more DEX I'd say an AoO build with Crusader (Tome of Battle) with the Combat Reflexes feat and the Thicket of Blades stance. (Also slap some spikes on your armor so you threates the squares immediately next to you. No need to really do much to them except have them.) It might still be worth it anyway, especially if you get some Gloves of Dexterity. Possibly with 2-4 levels of Paladin too, to get CHA to more saves than just Will and some other goodies, but that's not vital, especially with only a +2 CHA. (Four levels will get you Turn Undead, though, which is nice for divine feats.) I've been playing a Bard/Crusader with a glaive lately, and it's been working pretty well (except for last session, when I couldn't roll for crap).

If you do go along that path, other good feats are Stand Still and Defensive Rebuke, and I think Rolibar's Gambit and Karmic Strike are common AoO feats too. I don't have my books handy right now, though, so the only source I can give you is that Stand Still is in the XPH and SRD.

Actually... I can't check on the prereqs for Ruby Knight Vindicator from ToB, but it's a pretty good PrC for Cleric/Crusader, could probably work with Paladin if the prereqs aren't too bad.

sleeping fishy
2007-06-19, 08:08 PM
oh yeah, i wanted to say that secrets of sarlona has a feat called "Pole Master"... not like anyone will ever take that, because, ummm, yeah, come on, it makes you a POLE MASTER...

....
2007-06-19, 08:19 PM
Droodle, this also explains the spiked chain. It gets all 3, and is thus exotic. It's just the ability to also attack adjacent enemies that makes it Utterly, Utterly Broken. Aside from that, it seems like a good rule of thumb and mechanical explanation. The real-world stuff helps too.

Err... not to nitpick but...uh...

Since when can you set a chain against a charge?

Matthew
2007-06-19, 11:48 PM
Well, the standard answer is you want to go the Power Attack, Cleave, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper route by Level 6. Choose a Pole Arm (it doesn't really matter which, a Long Spear or Spear would probably do), take Power Attack and Cleave, Improved Bull Rush (unfortunately required for Shock Trooper) and at Fighter 6 take Leap Attack and Shock Trooper.

Human Fighter
Level 1: [Feat], [Bonus Feat],
Level 2: [Bonus Feat]
Level 3: [Feat]
Level 4: [Bonus Feat]
Level 5: Dead Level
Level 6: Leap Attack, Shock Trooper,

You have two Feats to spare and by Level 6 have a devestating Leaping Charge that does something like (1D8 + Strength Bonus x 1.5 + 18 Damage) for a -10 AC penalty and +2 AB Bonus via Charge and Shock Trooper. Still, you should be able to take out two fairly strong critters this way...

See about swapping Intelligence with Charisma, you could do with the extra Skill Points.

Leon
2007-06-20, 12:34 AM
Err... not to nitpick but...uh...

Since when can you set a chain against a charge?

when you find a way to make it ridged