You are the Boss- Game Concept help

[Burden King]

I was hoping to run a game, in whichever system would fit, where the players would play the major bosses of a hero or a group of heroes story. They'ed be free to either be powerful individually, use minions, or some combination as they see fit. The Game would, i imagine, either be played from their beginning to becoming the big bosses they were destined to be, or it would start with them as the bosses with them dealing the heroes, or dealing with multiple sets of heroes that grow more powerful as victories mount up.

My issue is that I'm unsdure how to handle such a game. Being relatively new with DMing, I'm trying to get some experience opinions on what sort of system to bring in, how to handle a party of bosses to allow everyone to have fun, weather to make them the big bads of the setting, or the bosses under the big bad, what they should be limited to, and other such things. I can create a setting for this pretty easily, but I need to know these things in order to make a setting that fits such a game.

So yeah, any and all ideas and help would be appreciated.

TL;DR, Run a game where party are all bosses, how do?

[Douche]

So basically they will be sitting in their dungeon waiting for adventurers to show up and fight them. Then they'll have to go out to the Minions Union to hire out a bunch of new goblins & slimes & such to repopulate their dungeon each time it gets cleared.

Alternatively, they could be proactive villains and just show up every time the heroes clear out the ancient temple and disarm all the traps, then disable the heroes long enough to grab the ancient artifact themselves and leave the heroes for dead as they leave, cackling as they collapse the entrances behind them... But then months later the heroes did in fact escape and return, much more powerful and fresh off an inspiring montage to defeat the dastardly villains.

[Raimun]

That's a very cool idea. I have no experience about this type of game but this does raise a few thoughts:

- I guess it would be better to start at higher level than lower.

- Is every one of them a separate "boss fight"? As in, they have lairs far apart and fight the party alone (but with minions, perhaps). In a party of five, that requires splitting the party to five pieces. That's never an ideal situation in a roleplaying game, from a meta perspective. GM has to stretch his focus on each one of them separately and the players have to all wait, doing nothing while the GM and one player resolve one of the boss' business.. and they all have to do that four times until it's their turn. However...

- Five bosses who are tight as an adventuring party? Those are always the lamest bosses and/or merely elite goons. That said...

- You really need a way for all of them to interact with each other regularly but still be able to split up to conduct whatever nefarious plans that are to be kept hidden from the other bosses. Yes, it is a conundrum.

- Perhaps you should look up the Pathfinder's Ultimate Campaign-book and its kingdom building rules?

- And The Last Days of FOXHOUND (http://www.doctorshrugs.com/foxhound/comic.php?id=1)? It's this webcomic about the life and times of the bosses from the original Metal Gear Solid, set before the game. :smallcool:

[JeenLeen]

I think one of the biggest issues is that, if the PCs (being the bosses) are intelligent, the heroes shouldn't really be able to be heroes. A consistent thing in a lot of games is that the big bads ignore the main characters until they become a threat, since they are just a pest beforehand. PCs, unless they want to be, would know to eliminate the heroes early on.

A work-around is to have the bosses need the PCs, up to a given point. Perhaps these heroes (for one reason or another) are the only ones who can unlock a certain McGuffin the PCs need to dominate the world. It's bad if the PCs get it, and maybe it would be the key to defeating the long-term plans of the bosses in the end, but if the bosses have it it would be a great win. Or if you want to go evil, maybe it's something that could permanently seal the evil god the PCs serve or be used to free him. Only true heroes can unseal the McGuffin.
I was in one game where the villains were watching us from the start, but not killing us because we were agents of prophecy. It gave a good reason why they didn't kill us off early.

---

For gameplay, I think it would be hard. Most of the stuff bosses do is boring. Unless your players and you like the management aspect, I'd recommend having the PC part be a small cult or band dedicated to a goal, and thus they act as an adventuring party. Maybe manage minions from afar, or you're the advance of the evil empire invasion as well as the evil empire's leaders, something like that.

Eh, not much to add on gameplay aspect, but I hope the first section of this post might help give an in-character reason not to just kill the heroes.

EDITING IN NEW IDEA


- You really need a way for all of them to interact with each other regularly but still be able to split up to conduct whatever nefarious plans that are to be kept hidden from the other bosses. Yes, it is a conundrum.

Look up Another Gaming Comic (no longer updating) and check out the evil campaigns in it. In it, there was downtime between sessions where the players would talk with the DM and do intra-party conflict stuff or their own nefarious plans. You could have a similar time between games (or during a break for long games) where the players can do their 'behind the scenes' stuff that would be boring to take up game time.

Also, talk to the players about PVP (from killing to just mind control or blackmail) to make sure everyone is okay with the same stuff. You may be evil, but you can be friends.

[Slipperychicken]

At least at first, I'd imagine having the players set out as independent monsters to raid good guys and take their stuff. That could really help with world-building, getting to see the surface first-hand and understand the context in which their dungeon exists. They'd want to time their raids properly, to avoid drawing too much attention (i.e. increasingly heavily-armed caravans and professional dungeoneers). They might start with a tiny lair, but expanding into a proper dungeon would likely be more of a mid-game objective.


Since you're a new DM, I'd suggest running more standard games first, try to follow the formulas before learning how and why to break them. That will help give you the experience to run something more off-the-wall. And better yet, you'll be able to make parodies of your players' old PCs (and some of your old NPCs) and throw them the "bosses".

Knowing the heroes' stories, and the kinds of hilarious screw-ups they make in dungeons, will help you make them deeper characters and play them a lot better. The players or their minions would hear the heroes' banter, which could reflect conditions for humanity, and funny things that happened before. Sometimes the players might hunker down for a fight, only for the heroes to end up accidentally killing themselves on the first pit trap, or remembering another urgent quest that they had forgotten.

[Burden King]

That's a very cool idea. I have no experience about this type of game but this does raise a few thoughts:

- I guess it would be better to start at higher level than lower.

- Is every one of them a separate "boss fight"? As in, they have lairs far apart and fight the party alone (but with minions, perhaps). In a party of five, that requires splitting the party to five pieces. That's never an ideal situation in a roleplaying game, from a meta perspective. GM has to stretch his focus on each one of them separately and the players have to all wait, doing nothing while the GM and one player resolve one of the boss' business.. and they all have to do that four times until it's their turn. However...

- Five bosses who are tight as an adventuring party? Those are always the lamest bosses and/or merely elite goons. That said...

- You really need a way for all of them to interact with each other regularly but still be able to split up to conduct whatever nefarious plans that are to be kept hidden from the other bosses. Yes, it is a conundrum.

- Perhaps you should look up the Pathfinder's Ultimate Campaign-book and its kingdom building rules?

- And The Last Days of FOXHOUND (http://www.doctorshrugs.com/foxhound/comic.php?id=1)? It's this webcomic about the life and times of the bosses from the original Metal Gear Solid, set before the game. :smallcool:

- Higher level sounds best honestly, to get that Boss feeling started sooner rather then later.

- Well I was gonna run it on a forum, so them separating wouldn't be that bad, at least as bad as it would be on skype or in person.

-Pathfinder could work, but it may be to limiting in some terms, since not all bosses are just high level humans or elves.


I think one of the biggest issues is that, if the PCs (being the bosses) are intelligent, the heroes shouldn't really be able to be heroes. A consistent thing in a lot of games is that the big bads ignore the main characters until they become a threat, since they are just a pest beforehand. PCs, unless they want to be, would know to eliminate the heroes early on.

A work-around is to have the bosses need the PCs, up to a given point. Perhaps these heroes (for one reason or another) are the only ones who can unlock a certain McGuffin the PCs need to dominate the world. It's bad if the PCs get it, and maybe it would be the key to defeating the long-term plans of the bosses in the end, but if the bosses have it it would be a great win. Or if you want to go evil, maybe it's something that could permanently seal the evil god the PCs serve or be used to free him. Only true heroes can unseal the McGuffin.
I was in one game where the villains were watching us from the start, but not killing us because we were agents of prophecy. It gave a good reason why they didn't kill us off early.

---

For gameplay, I think it would be hard. Most of the stuff bosses do is boring. Unless your players and you like the management aspect, I'd recommend having the PC part be a small cult or band dedicated to a goal, and thus they act as an adventuring party. Maybe manage minions from afar, or you're the advance of the evil empire invasion as well as the evil empire's leaders, something like that.

Eh, not much to add on gameplay aspect, but I hope the first section of this post might help give an in-character reason not to just kill the heroes.

EDITING IN NEW IDEA

Look up Another Gaming Comic (no longer updating) and check out the evil campaigns in it. In it, there was downtime between sessions where the players would talk with the DM and do intra-party conflict stuff or their own nefarious plans. You could have a similar time between games (or during a break for long games) where the players can do their 'behind the scenes' stuff that would be boring to take up game time.

Also, talk to the players about PVP (from killing to just mind control or blackmail) to make sure everyone is okay with the same stuff. You may be evil, but you can be friends.

Thanks man, all your ideas are actually very awesome, especially the reasoning for keeping the heroes alive as well as keeping the bosses together. Maybe a hero of certain strength is required for Villains plans, and thus they have to not only avoid killing the heroes to early, but also weeding out the ones unworthy of the prophesy. Sorta build their own hero to face them in the end, or heroes in a mor elikely case. Make their own bed so to speak.

As for a way to keep them together, making them align with one over being, someone that commands them or they owe loyalty to, would also be a rather effective means. Weather this be a god or something would be setting dependent.


At least at first, I'd imagine having the players set out as independent monsters to raid good guys and take their stuff. That could really help with world-building, getting to see the surface first-hand and understand the context in which their dungeon exists. They'd want to time their raids properly, to avoid drawing too much attention (i.e. increasingly heavily-armed caravans and professional dungeoneers). They might start with a tiny lair, but expanding into a proper dungeon would likely be more of a mid-game objective.


Since you're a new DM, I'd suggest running more standard games first, try to follow the formulas before learning how and why to break them. That will help give you the experience to run something more off-the-wall. And better yet, you'll be able to make parodies of your players' old PCs (and some of your old NPCs) and throw them the "bosses".

Knowing the heroes' stories, and the kinds of hilarious screw-ups they make in dungeons, will help you make them deeper characters and play them a lot better. The players or their minions would hear the heroes' banter, which could reflect conditions for humanity, and funny things that happened before. Sometimes the players might hunker down for a fight, only for the heroes to end up accidentally killing themselves on the first pit trap, or remembering another urgent quest that they had forgotten.

The idea of referencing some of my players earlier character would be amazing, and likely would be hilarious for them to witness XD As for new dm, I mean relativly new. I've been dming for around a year, I'm just not gonna so i'm experienced like others are XD.

[ImNotTrevor]

I am not sure if it is what you're looking for per se, but there is a game called Blades in the Dark that may be the perfect system for this.

Otherwise, I'm actually working on a system with a similar sort of inspiration, but it is still in its infancy so I can't exactly Recommend it yet.

[Burden King]

I am not sure if it is what you're looking for per se, but there is a game called Blades in the Dark that may be the perfect system for this.

Otherwise, I'm actually working on a system with a similar sort of inspiration, but it is still in its infancy so I can't exactly Recommend it yet.

Could you provide me a link to this system? Also, maybe a link so I could see what you have so far on yours?

[Gastronomie]

Though it's not a TRPG but an anime, Code Geass could give inspirations on an interesting adventure where the PCs are the bosses of the game.

In Code Geass, the main character (not necessarily a protagonist) Lelouch is a genius high schooler with the ability to mind-control anyone with simple words and a badass glittering of his eye. There are several rules for this ability (you can mind-control a particular someone only once, it doesn't work on the blind etc.) but otherwise it's a boss character's ability, and indeed he uses this ability to start an all-out rebellion on the world empire of Britannia, which is basically America in terms of power, except it's an evil empire (well, that's if you don't consider actual America to be an evil empire in some ways).

Or Death Note. Main character can kill anybody, given he knows his face and name - and his ultimate rival is a man whose name no one knows. Said rival also has control over all police in the entire world and is going to try to arrest main character at any cost.


If your characters are gonna be bosses, give them even stronger antagonists. Make it a game of god v.s. god and it'll turn out badass if you DM it right. People generally love it when there's a worthy, interesting opponent.

[Burden King]

Though it's not a TRPG but an anime, Code Geass could give inspirations on an interesting adventure where the PCs are the bosses of the game.

In Code Geass, the main character (not necessarily a protagonist) Lelouch is a genius high schooler with the ability to mind-control anyone with simple words and a badass glittering of his eye. There are several rules for this ability (you can mind-control a particular someone only once, it doesn't work on the blind etc.) but otherwise it's a boss character's ability, and indeed he uses this ability to start an all-out rebellion on the world empire of Britannia, which is basically America in terms of power, except it's an evil empire (well, that's if you don't consider actual America to be an evil empire in some ways).

Or Death Note. Main character can kill anybody, given he knows his face and name - and his ultimate rival is a man whose name no one knows. Said rival also has control over all police in the entire world and is going to try to arrest main character at any cost.


If your characters are gonna be bosses, give them even stronger antagonists. Make it a game of god v.s. god and it'll turn out badass if you DM it right. People generally love it when there's a worthy, interesting opponent.

I really love code geass, so using that as an inspiration sound slike a good idea to me XD As for worth adversary, I was thinkin that the player sown actions would make a hero worthy of them, sort alike them weeding out heroes they don't care for or are to weak to get the best hero for the job

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I think I might do it as a sort of normal campaign with kind of reverse boss battles. Yes, that's a very clear sentence.

The characters know they need to be in their dungeon for the next adventuring party a month from now. They have until then to prepare. They could spend their time ordering kobold construction contractors around as they dig new tunnels, they could go out on a quest to get the ultimate sword, or a powerful charm or trap. The difference from a normal campaign is that normally you can choose when you go in, but you usually can't control where and how the fight will happen and you can only bring what you can carry. In this campaign the players can't control the when, but the where and how are usually their choice, and they can stack up on gadgets and henchmen.

The problem is turning it into a good story. Maybe the actual end boss they work for turns out to secretly be good or something. They end up fleeing from the dungeon when he comes for them at night and they have to find new places to set up shop and prepare for an assault, or face their opponents in a fair fight on even terrain and most likely lose. The logistics of keeping all their gear with them and intact in such a scenario are kind of interesting in themselves.

[Winter_Wolf]

Apparently I completely misinterpreted the OP, because I thought the players would be like the equivalent of the police precinct chief telling npc "heroes" what to do. Because I read "boss" and thought "employer" for some reason. Although I think that could be kind of a cool high level retired adventurers game with a lot of sociopolitical stuff. Generals leading armies and assigning elite troops to do heroic stuff that helps sway the tides of fortune and whatnot.