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simonb530
2016-03-07, 09:11 PM
Edited 3/22/16

In my opinion, the ranger base class should represent a person who can thrive in wild by understanding the terrain and the creatures that inhabit it through experience (i.e. no spells). So, this is my attempt at creating that base class. Below are the major changes from the PHB version

Skills – I gave the option to take athletics or acrobatics. I don’t understand why that wasn’t there to begin with when you are kind of pushed into a dex build.

Favored Enemy(F.A.) now has some combat abilities. I didn’t build the class to be solely dependent on F.A, but just add that little extra to show you are familiar with that creature. The improvements to F.A. are scaled to prevent dipping.

6th level - F.A. have disadvantages on detecting and tracking you

13th level – Foe Hunter (moved from lv 20 and merged with F.A.)

15th level – Archetype improvement

Fighting Style – I moved this to 1st level and moved Natural Terrain to 2nd. It is really boring playing a 1st level Ranger with just F.A. and Nat. Explorer. Those abilities don’t do anything at 1st level even with my improvements. That is why I moved the fighting style to 1st level.

Hunter’s Instincts – 2nd level is just Rogue’s Expertise but only for Ranger Class skills.

Natural Explorer– I call it Favored Terrain. I merged the vanish ability into favored terrain and add an additional pick.

Ranger Archetypes – With a spell less ranger, new archetypes are necessary. I have 3 rough archetypes: Hunter, Beastmaster, and Spirit Invoker. You gain features at 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 18th.

The hunter archetype is supposed to represent the Strider ranger type. The basic mechanic for this class is Focus Points similar to ki, superior dice, or Grit (Matt Mercer’s Gunslinger).

The beastmaster archetype is very similar to the current version but with some major improvements: bonus action to command beast, ability to gain varying CR beast, Training/improving your beast. This may be a bit complicated especially “improving” the beast, but I think this is better than the proficiency bonus to show the effects of different training.

The spirit invoker archetype is the magical archetype which has gained a deeper understanding of nature and formed a link with a spirit. With this archetype, you get a spirit companion. The spirit companion is used to sort a replace the conjuring animals and woodland creatures. I also changed the spellcasting to be prepare instead of knowing and add cantrips. I also modified/add spells so the ranger doesn’t have to use range weapons.

Evasion - add at 9th level

Hide in Plain Sight – modified to work until you took damage, move or attacked. If you took damage, you need to reapply it taking 1 min. If you moved or attacked, you needed to take an action to fix it.

Removed Primeval Awareness

Ability score Improvement, Extra Attack, Land’s Stride, Feral Senses – Stayed the same

Capstone ability – I originally had Free Movement, but I like my adaptability better for Theme anyways. I am still working on the ability, but basically it would allow the Ranger to study a creature or terrain and temporarily add them to its Favored list.

Well that is about the gist of what I have changed. I would appreciate any input on balance, theme, mechanics, wording, etc.

If you are using Chrome you can view it here: http://www.naturalcrit.com/homebrew/share/Vk6VWGvng

Otherwise here is a pdf: https://goo.gl/y01uhU



Change Log

Ranger Revised - V6 - 3/23/16

- Changed how beast is controlled to: As an bonus action, you can verbally command your beast to use the Attack action. It continues to attack that target on its own in subsequent turns without any additional action. Once the target is dead, you may design another target to your beast as a bonus action.

- Beast companions are proficient in one saving throw. CR<=4 +2 P.B. or CR>=5 +3 P.B. (MM pg 8)

- Add saving throw and skill traits to exceptional training

- Added the additional effect to BeastMaster's Mind Sync: you and your beast have advantage on saving throws against being charmed and frightened.

TheTeaMustFlow
2016-03-08, 06:34 AM
The address doesn't work for me.

simonb530
2016-03-08, 03:46 PM
Theteamustflow, please try it again. You need to copy the address into the web browser. The page displays the best using chrome

SouthpawSoldier
2016-03-08, 04:39 PM
There's LOT to go over; almost too much. At fist skim, I notice Hunter's Endurance is incomplete: "Starting at 15th level, the max number of Focus points increases by –" and Killing Blow is the only time you mention Firearms. If a class mechanic depends on another piece of homebrew, I would suggest either adding info abut Firearms, or make Killing Blow work other ways.

simonb530
2016-03-08, 05:15 PM
SouthpawSolider,

I know there is alot of information to look and really appreciate you looking at. The Focus mechanic I pulled from Matt Mercer's Fighter Archetype - Gunslinger (I linked all source at the end of the document). I combine that with a few of the Maneuvers from the fighter's Battle Master Archetype and a few Ranger specific ones. All of the Deeds should work for the ranger with any weapon (melee or ranged).

I'm wanting to make sure it is balanced and does overshadow other classes. In that regard I'm not sure what abilities to give at 15th and 18th. At the 15th I was thinking increase the max number of Focus points. At 18th level, give a similar ability as Relentless.

Thanks again for your input.

Ninjadeadbeard
2016-03-09, 08:22 PM
Aaaaaaand nope. Link still doesn't work. Just a blank page turns up.

simonb530
2016-03-09, 09:33 PM
Ninjadeadbeard,

I don't know why people are having a hard time with that link. It works fine for me. Anyways, I saved the file as a pdf and the link above or here goo.gl/LxOKaI will take you to it

Ninjadeadbeard
2016-03-10, 02:42 AM
Ninjadeadbeard,

I don't know why people are having a hard time with that link. It works fine for me. Anyways, I saved the file as a pdf and the link above or here goo.gl/LxOKaI will take you to it

Okay, the new link works. My thoughts:

1) I really like how you've made the main chassis. It works well, and the extra combat bonuses are a nice addition. Favored Enemy/Terrain is much better than originally, which is good. Hunter's Instinct needs some editing. You could just change it to Expertise as the Rogue and it would work just as well. Or at least add some kind of clarification on the limits of this bonus so no one thinks they can get double expertise combining this with Rogue levels or making them wonder what happens if they don't have the skill proficiencies. Another fix for Hide in Plain Sight I like to use is that your camouflage only needs re-setting if you take damage while wearing it. It's like an impromptu gilly suit: it should keep working so long as there's no blood splatter on it.

2) Hunter is awesome. Just awesome. Wounding Strike is a bit too complicated for my taste, but the rest are fine. 15th and 18th level abilities are fine as they are since the lower level ones are so good. Alternatively, you still start at Wisdom Mod number of Focus Points, but your max can be twice that.

3) Beastmaster needs a lot of work. The Ranger's Companion feature is too limiting, as is the anti-proficiency bonus. Honestly everything about this feature is too complicated, and just terrible. Drop the Passive Animal Handling check and the Action-to-Command thing. As is, the first feature cripples this archetype. Exceptional Training is a great idea, but some of its abilities need work. Hunting Tactics is less than useless since everyone will just pick Pack Tactics, which is great. Shared Enemy/Terrain is similarly useless as the benefits already apply to yourself, and so are already a bonus to your Animal Companion. Does the 13th level Enemy apply your Wisdom or your companion's to their attacks/damage against favored enemy? This needs clarification as it could be a great ability if fleshed out. Beast Barding, IMO, has little advantage compared to what you lose using up your precious Exceptional Training abilities on it, and I'm not sure if Animal Companions have a lot of natural abilities...and those aren't a defined game term, so you'll need to fix that. Evasion is fantastic, btw.

4) Spellweaver looks promising. Cantrips and prepared casting make me happy. Not sure about the name though. Definitely remove Increased Concentration and burn it with napalm. This one ability, regardless of anything else, makes Ranger a mandatory 7-level dip for every caster in the game. Bar none.

Overall: I actually really, really like this. A lot. BM and Spellweaver need a lot of work, but the basics are here, and the chassis and Hunter archetype are pretty good thus far. Can't wait to see more!

simonb530
2016-03-11, 12:14 AM
Ninjadeadbeard,

I really appreciate you taking the time to read through it. I like most of your suggestions and made the changes. You can view the new version here goo.gl/d9esLO

I will summarize the changes I made, here as well

Hunter's Instinct - Is expertise but only with ranger class skills. I added the same wording from expertise, but forgot to add a note "This doesn't stack with rogue expertise". I also like the name of the ability better than expertise.

Add your fix for the hide in plain sight ability

After rereading again, I agree that wounding strike is a little complicated and honestly I think underpowered. I think I fixed that by removing DC saving throws. The player already has to spend a point then hit to get the effect, otherwise it is spend a point, try to hit, hope target fails save. This also simplified the "Deeds" ability (I need to come up with a better name), which now none of them have DC.

Beastmaster - I like the adjusted proficiency bonus mechanic (kinda pulled it from 3.5 druids effective level), this just allows a simple way of having a higher CR companion without overpowering it compared to a lower CR. I personally like having one companion from the beginning to end, but I know other people would like to have a saber-tooth tiger or dire wolf. So having the adjusted proficiency bonus allows them to be comparable without going too complex (or at least it seems that way to me). I added an example in the back comparing a wolf and dire wolf companion for lv 10 Ranger.

I also agree with you on the animal handling requirement. The reason I put it in was that I didn't want people to just take 3lv of ranger and be able to control the animal companion with a bonus action. I have simpified it down to that if the ranger has an animal handling score of 6 or more they can control the animal companion as a bonus action. If you like this, I'm thinking of giving the "Advanced Tactic" (terrible name as well) to the ranger as well if they have an animal handling score of 9 or higher, which isn't hard for this ranger +3 wisdom +6 proficiency bonus (due to hunter's instincts on animal handling)

Exceptional Training -
Barding - I know some abilities are probably weaker than others, but I like to have choices when playing. If I want to have the highest attacking companion then the barding probably isn't for me, but if I want a tanky companions adding the barding could be a good choice.

Hunter Tactics - Is meant to give range characters advantage, while pack tactics is for melee users. The pack tactics is more benfical for both companion and PC but require both of them to be in the mix. Hunter tactics gives advantage to one, which only requires the animal companion to be in the mix.

The DC bonus was to improve abilities like the wolf's knocking an enemy prone with a hit if the target fails a strength DC. I don't know if there are a lot of animal attacks/abilities that have DC, but it just gives another choice to the player.

Spellweaver (I don't like that name either) I flushed out a little more. Along with the spellcasting ability the archetype also gets a spirit familiar (just to give the class something truly unique, which I found from wizards UA3. This also allow for great lore that the spirit animal is the reason why rangers can use nature magic). These gives the caster an ability to invoke their spirit animal and later to actually summon them. To balance out the summoning ability I removed the conjure animal & fey from the rangers spell list. This might be a bit extreme but I like it.

FYI - removed it but the increased concentration was going to be a lv 20 ability, or it was going to lv 7or 15: The ranger can maintain hunter's mark and another concentration spell from the ranger spell list.


Again Thanks for you input

Ninjadeadbeard
2016-03-11, 03:15 AM
Before I start, I just wanna say this is the single best Ranger fix I have seen for 5e. Please keep up the good work!


Hunter's Instinct - Is expertise but only with ranger class skills. I added the same wording from expertise, but forgot to add a note "This doesn't stack with rogue expertise". I also like the name of the ability better than expertise.

I think regardless of what you call it, since Hunter's Instinct and Expertise have the same effect (double proficiency), I don't believe it would stack. If you still would like to add the note, go ahead.


After rereading again, I agree that wounding strike is a little complicated and honestly I think underpowered. I think I fixed that by removing DC saving throws. The player already has to spend a point then hit to get the effect, otherwise it is spend a point, try to hit, hope target fails save. This also simplified the "Deeds" ability (I need to come up with a better name), which now none of them have DC.


Looking over Wounding Strike, I am struck (huehuehue) by how the ability requires you to expend a resource before it hits. Seems off of 5E's usual thing, what with Smite being triggered on a successful hit. Not a bad thing, just something to realize.


Beastmaster - I like the adjusted proficiency bonus mechanic (kinda pulled it from 3.5 druids effective level), this just allows a simple way of having a higher CR companion without overpowering it compared to a lower CR. I personally like having one companion from the beginning to end, but I know other people would like to have a saber-tooth tiger or dire wolf. So having the adjusted proficiency bonus allows them to be comparable without going too complex (or at least it seems that way to me). I added an example in the back comparing a wolf and dire wolf companion for lv 10 Ranger.

I also agree with you on the animal handling requirement. The reason I put it in was that I didn't want people to just take 3lv of ranger and be able to control the animal companion with a bonus action. I have simpified it down to that if the ranger has an animal handling score of 6 or more they can control the animal companion as a bonus action. If you like this, I'm thinking of giving the "Advanced Tactic" (terrible name as well) to the ranger as well if they have an animal handling score of 9 or higher, which isn't hard for this ranger +3 wisdom +6 proficiency bonus (due to hunter's instincts on animal handling)

Hmmm...I see what you're going for, but I still would strongly urge you not to have a "Skill Tax" on this ability. As a compromise, why not let the Ranger command the Companion with a Bonus Action (disengage, dash, dodge, etc), but keep their Attack command to a Standard Action? Advanced Tactics could then be rebuilt into a different ability, perhaps? I would also reiterate that Pack Tactics and Hunter Tactics are still redundant abilities. Perhaps there is a way to differentiate them? Even just giving a stated range to Hunter Tactics would be enough, I think.

As for the proficiency penalty...I still don't like it, but you could modify it slightly to work. Allow the higher CR creatures at any level, but with the steeper Proficiency penalty. Or even force them then to make a Handle Animal check to maintain control of a beast obviously beyond their abilities. As they reach the level thresholds these penalties end for certain CRs, representing a growth in the Ranger's oneness with their animal companions.

Does that sound like a good idea?


Exceptional Training -
Barding - I know some abilities are probably weaker than others, but I like to have choices when playing. If I want to have the highest attacking companion then the barding probably isn't for me, but if I want a tanky companions adding the barding could be a good choice.

With the expanded Barding options at the end of the pdf, this looks like a much better option. Most people's main complaint about the standard BM is that the companion died too often. Maybe throw in a few more barding options (chainmail!!!!) and it would be a very nice option.


Spellweaver (I don't like that name either) I flushed out a little more. Along with the spellcasting ability the archetype also gets a spirit familiar (just to give the class something truly unique, which I found from wizards UA3. This also allow for great lore that the spirit animal is the reason why rangers can use nature magic). These gives the caster an ability to invoke their spirit animal and later to actually summon them. To balance out the summoning ability I removed the conjure animal & fey from the rangers spell list. This might be a bit extreme but I like it.

FYI - removed it but the increased concentration was going to be a lv 20 ability, or it was going to lv 7or 15: The ranger can maintain hunter's mark and another concentration spell from the ranger spell list.

I truly love what's going on with this archetype. Really. The summoning removal is fine, though it probably wouldn't be unbalanced in any way to keep them, if you're inclined. The only issue I have is with the 15th and 18th level abilities. Dual Spirit Companions could work as: Select an ability granted by Invoke Spirit you don't already have. You may use either ability as a Bonus Action on your turn.

As for Increased Concentration...well. The 18th level feature could be replaced with something that removes concentration for a select few Ranger spells, if not just Hunter's Mark. Alternatively, it could just allow a second Spirit Materialization (select animal when you get this feature).

Also, you could go with a name like Warden, or perhaps Shaman. Just a suggestion.


Again Thanks for you input

No problem! This is looking amazing!

simonb530
2016-03-11, 09:00 PM
Ninjadeadbeard,

Thanks again for the input. New version goo.gl/D58Iwu

I added the following for hunter's instincts
Hunter's Instincts (Expertise)
Note: This features functions like the Rogue's Expertise feature, therefore you will not get an additional bonus choosing the skill twice from Rogue's Expertise and Hunter's Instincts.

I understand what you are saying about wounding strike, but I kinda look at that as more of a spell. Yes, the ranger spends a point and not sure if its effect is going to happen unless he hits, but focus points return after a short rest and its possible for him to regain them in combat. With that said, I kinda doubt anyone would choose that deed over another since its effect isn't set. So I have a few solutions:

The ranger must have 2 focus points, if the attack hits then he spends one for the effect.

Ranger spends one focus point then attacks if the attack misses, he rolls a d20 less than 10 nothing happens greater than 10 he regains that spent point

Give the wounding strike feature at lv 15 for free, but limit it to only applying to favored enemies. (I already did this version. Because this allows me to add an addition feature for each archetype that builds off favored terrain or enemies.

Which do you like? Also, the reason I don't want to do the if you hit spend a point. I think that is kinda backwards in reality. I hit them then I decide where I actually hit.

For the beastmaster, I went ahead and removed the "Skill Tax" and left the same bonus action feature. It really wouldn't do what I wanted anyway.

Beast Companion: I liked the simplicity of modifying the proficiency bonus over others methods I have see, but I do like customizing my creature so this my be a bit more complicated. I also added a few features I got from another ranger homebrew (I think they overpowered their beast so I didn't take everything from them. Please let me know if you like the change

Hunter's Tactics/Pack Tactics: I changed the wording around. See if that makes more sense.

I added a lv 15 feature: Favored enemy & Terrain. I just gave the shared terrain beast companion feature.

I expanded to included medium barding. I'm not sure with using medium barding if I should limit Dex and Natural armor or just Dex. To me it makes sense to only limit Dex, but I don't know if a beast companion could get a really high ac.

Currently I have the spellweaver archetype named as Spirit Invoker, but I do like Shaman so might change it later.

I sorta changed spirit companion around a bit in that you have to perform a ritual to a form a pact with a spirit companion. You can have as many spirit pacts as you want, but still only have one spirit companion at a time. You choose your spirit companion that you have a pact with at the same time you prepare you spells. This then ties into the Dual spirit companion. I liked your idea of choosing another companion, but they had to already formed a pact with another spirit companion. I will add addition spirit companions (tiger, lion, rat, etc) later.

At the 15th level, I add the feature of increased concentration if they are in their favored terrain. When I was thinking of this feature and how it could be abused, that is was the main reason for dropping Conjure Animals and Fey.


For the Spirit Invoker, I was also thinking about giving skill proficiencies dependent on the spirit companion, but I don't want to give too much to a class/archetype.

Also do you think the add features for favored terrain and enemies in each archetype is too much.

Thanks again for you input.

Ninjadeadbeard
2016-03-12, 03:29 AM
I understand what you are saying about wounding strike, but I kinda look at that as more of a spell. Yes, the ranger spends a point and not sure if its effect is going to happen unless he hits, but focus points return after a short rest and its possible for him to regain them in combat. With that said, I kinda doubt anyone would choose that deed over another since its effect isn't set. So I have a few solutions:

*snip*

Give the wounding strike feature at lv 15 for free, but limit it to only applying to favored enemies. (I already did this version. Because this allows me to add an addition feature for each archetype that builds off favored terrain or enemies.

This is probably the best option. Everything else about Wounding Strike is fine.


For the beastmaster, I went ahead and removed the "Skill Tax" and left the same bonus action feature. It really wouldn't do what I wanted anyway.

Beast Companion: I liked the simplicity of modifying the proficiency bonus over others methods I have see, but I do like customizing my creature so this my be a bit more complicated. I also added a few features I got from another ranger homebrew (I think they overpowered their beast so I didn't take everything from them. Please let me know if you like the change

While I like the idea, Animal Companion still needs editing. Let me give it a pass:

Ranger Companion
Everything up to Beast Companions is fine.
Beast Companions: As you increase in level, you may either choose to increase your companion's potency, or designate a new beast as your primary companion. The CR limit of any potential Beasts increases to 2 at 5th level, CR3 at 9th level, CR5 at 13th level, and CR6 at 17th level.

At every level where you would normally increase the CR of your Beast Companion, you may instead Improve your current one. Each instance of Improvement has the following effects:


+4 to a single Ability Score or +2 to Two separate ability scores. The Companion's maximum ability score is still 30.
+1 Hit Die.
+1 Natural Armor Bonus to AC.

At level 7, your Companion may be a Large or smaller sized creature.

Would also recommend not having Growth Hormone increase Hit Die. Everything else in Beastmaster seems fine.


I expanded to included medium barding. I'm not sure with using medium barding if I should limit Dex and Natural armor or just Dex. To me it makes sense to only limit Dex, but I don't know if a beast companion could get a really high ac.


My research leads me to conclude Animal AC is garbage, and could use a boost.


Currently I have the spellweaver archetype named as Spirit Invoker, but I do like Shaman so might change it later.

So far liking the Invoker. If you prefer Shaman, that's good too. Invoker is a good name though, so don't feel pressured. I still say Double Concentration, even with a Favored Terrain Limitation, should be an 18th level ability, but it is high enough to make it ridiculously difficult to abuse like with other classes. You should also specify that Dual Spirit Companions gives you the use of multiple animals, but that you still only Invoke one at a time with your Bonus Action. The 18th level ability needs something more. Perhaps if you are reduced to 0 or fewer Hit points or killed, your spirit may choose to sacrifice itself to cast Reincarnate on you? You'd lose the Spirit for a week, but then you'd have it back again.

Just a thought. The rest seems very cool, and I eagerly await the next version. This is absolutely gonna be the new standard Ranger at my table, I can tell you that much. Thank you for putting in so much effort on this!

simonb530
2016-03-15, 05:50 PM
Ninjadeadbeard,

Thanks for rewording the beast companion section. I know my wording is somewhat clunky and probably a little robotic.

I have replaced the beast companion section with what you had written and added the following:

If you choose a beast below CR 1, you can use additional Improvements to make the beast companion comparable to CR 1 beast. This option is available to allow for more beast choices. For example:
- If you choose a beast with a CR of 1/4, your beast gains 2 improvement instance at 3rd level.
- If you choose a beast with a CR of 1/2, your beast gains 1 improvement instance at 3rd level.

I think growth hormone is fine, this feature can't be used if your beast is already large. This allows the player to choose a medium or small beast, but still be able to do the same damage as a larger one. I had mention in the section before that the player could just increase the size of the beast for free but I meant to remove that line after placing growth hormone as an exceptional training feature.

What is the reason behind wanting to removing the feature?

Made several adjustments to the Spirit Invoker.

Spirit Companion - It is done yet, but I'm thinking to expand out the possible choices. I have listed several of them already, but I need to figure out how to balance them out (they have varying CR) with using the Spirit Materialization. I want to improve this feature to truly replace conjure animals and woodland beings on the spell list.

Spirit Materialization - I spirit materialization now scales with level instead of creating a new feature.

I left the favored terrain improvement at 15th. I understand that could be placed higher, but I want to keep the symmetry between the archetypes were they get an improvement on favored terrain/enemy.

I really liked the idea of the spirit sacrificing itself to save the player. So, I made that the level 18th ability.

Spirit Invoker Spell List
I am planning on pulling more spells from the druids spell list. I want to replace most of the enhanced ranged attack spells with something that works for both melee and ranged.

Thanks again for taking the time to look through it.

New link goo.gl/1Nikw7 This will direct you to a folder in my google drive that will contain the pdf. Now I wont have to make new links everytime.

SouthpawSoldier
2016-03-15, 06:08 PM
New link goo.gl/1Nikw7 This will direct you to a folder in my google drive that will contain the pdf. Now I wont have to make new links every time.

Is there a way of knowing which is the most recent? Maybe a revision log?

simonb530
2016-03-15, 06:57 PM
SouthpawSolider,

I just noted the current version by adding Current if front of the file name. Otherwise, my habit is noting versions by adding V# to the end of the file name. So, the current/latest version is V5.

SouthpawSoldier
2016-03-15, 08:54 PM
You may find this useful: http://www.naturalcrit.com/homebrew/

Tool to make your homebrew look very spiffy, indeed.

simonb530
2016-03-15, 10:27 PM
Southpawsolider,

I am using naturalcrit to make the file. It's just that if you view it in anything other than chrome it won't display right. So I just converted it a pdf.

naturalcrit.com/homebrew/share/Vk6VWGvng

simonb530
2016-03-19, 08:05 AM
I have made some changes to the spirit invoker:

Changed the mechanic on spirit companions

Add additional Spirits companion options

Changed the mechanic on Spirit Materialization

Add a Spell List

Latest Version: goo.gl/WvIf0R

Kellendros95
2016-03-20, 05:46 AM
I really like it, may be I will use it in my campaign.

simonb530
2016-03-20, 09:00 PM
Great, when you do please let me know how it plays.