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Rowanomicon
2007-06-19, 07:28 PM
OK, here's my thoughts on a Druid redux:
I want to make a druid class that is more of a spell caster. I envision the shady type of druid wearing a large black cloak with a hood and ample sleeve. The kind that gather scilently in the forest at the dead of night.
So, hopefully that gives you a bit of an idea, now for the crunch. Since DnD already has a druid class I'll use that as a base.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm (Druid)

I'll start at the top and deduce the HD to d6 to make it a little squishier.

Then I'm going to expand the Class Skill List to also include the Ranger Class Skills. (I believe that makes it Ranger Class Skill List + Diplomacy & Spellcraft.)

I'm also thinking I'll make Skill Points 6 + Int mod/level.

Definitely reduce BAB to 1/2HD. If the model is underpowered later I'll boost it back up.

Next I'll give the class all good saves. Just Because.

All the class special abilities seem to fit the type of druid I'm trying to create except Wild Shape. So, I take out the Wild Shape (which is a very important ability.
EDIT: Here's a list of class abilities from other (somewhat related) classes that might have a place in the new druid:
Fast movement, Uncanny dodge, Improved uncanny dodge, Trap sense, Track, Swift tracker, Evasion, Improved evasion, Camoflage, Hide in plain sight, Slippery mind

Let's see what we're left with now:

Druid Alignment:
Neutral good, lawful neutral, neutral, chaotic neutral, or neutral evil.

Hit Die:
d6.

Class Skills:

The druidís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level:
(6 + Int modifier) ◊4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level:
6 + Int modifier.

BAB:
1/2HD

Saves:
All good

Special
1 Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy
2 Woodland stride
3 Trackless step
4 Resist natureís lure
5
6
7
8
9 Venom immunity
10
11
12
13 A thousand faces
14
15 Timeless body
16
17
18
19
20

With the currect Druid spell table and list.

I've got a few option with spells. Keeping them the same would, of course, be easiest. If I do that I think I'd need to add in a couple special abilities, eh?
If not, I could make the spell casting spontaneous.

What do you guys think about this class so far power wise?

Any ideas for a good capstone ability?

Any feedback at all?

stolenchariot
2007-06-19, 07:48 PM
I don't know if it would fit your idea of the Druid, but when I use a druid as a character in my fiction, I generally have their shapeshifting limited to oen form. I think you could re-add their wildshape, but decrease its uses to maybe 1/day per 5 levels, and limit it to one animal form that is chosen at 5th level and cannot be changed. Also, why exactly does the druid have all good saves?

Rowanomicon
2007-06-19, 08:23 PM
That wild shape idea is interesting. I'll take it into consideration.

I knew someone would ask about the saves. I donno, it just seems right to me.

stolenchariot
2007-06-19, 08:29 PM
fluff wise, I see where you're coming from. Someone attuned to nature would probably be gifted with the graces of felines, and the fortitude of threes, and possibly the strength of the earth to compare to their will, but mechanic wise, it seems a little over powering. The only other thing I think of with all good saves are outsiders.

Neek
2007-06-19, 08:30 PM
I'd keep the saving throws as per Druid RAW. I like the idea of one form, or a few forms at best; the druid should be able to change the form rather than be locked, allowing some freedom, however requiring changing that form to be a bit more stiffer than anticipated.

stolenchariot
2007-06-19, 08:36 PM
Well another idea for that is that the form reflects the druid's personality and any traumatic events that would alter their outlook on life would also alter their form (DM's discresion)

Rowanomicon
2007-06-19, 08:54 PM
I really don't see all good saves as that over powering. True the only other thigns I can think of with all good saves are Outsiders and Monks.

If I put Wild shape back in as an ability it would be very limited, but I think the choice should still be left up to the player. After all, they're the one that ahs to play the character.
I'm still not 100% keen on putting Wild shape back in.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-06-19, 09:01 PM
Wasn't there a series of feats which gave the druid the ability to take on 'aspect of animal' to give them certain abilities? Perhaps this could be incorporated into your Druid instead of the standard Wild Shape.

for example, instead of just giving them Wild Shape and letting them shift into ANYTHING, why not simply give them stuff like "Aspect of the Bear, gives you an extra 5' and a natural claw attack", or "Aspect of the Ox, gain +4 Stamina until it wears off"... stuff like that. That way, you can control exactly what abilities they can gain from wildshaping, and prevent PunPunism.

Callix
2007-06-20, 02:24 AM
There's already an aspect variant here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#wildShapeVariantAspectOfN ature). This might need a little tweaking, but it allows for the fix to keep the natural feel without having polar bears spamming spells. Mostly they come with downsides (of fries :smallbiggrin: ).

Rowanomicon
2007-06-20, 08:18 PM
I could use that varient Wild Shape, but then the only changes I would have made would be trading HP and BAB for better Reflex Save, expanded Skills List, and more Skill Points. Not that that really works against what I wanted.
How's that in terms of balance?

Rowanomicon
2007-06-21, 11:14 PM
I thought of/remembered something that will help communicate the kind of flavour I'm looking for here.
Think Allanon form the Shannara series.
It's been like a decoade since I've read the books, but that's the kinda of flavour.

Matthew
2007-06-22, 08:18 PM
I see nothing wrong with giving them all Good Saves either. the Druid is a problematic Character Class; frankly, just about all Classes should have this arrangement. I have never really understood their lack of proficiency with Bows and Spears and such either.

Shape Changing has only recently become the Druid's signature thing. In prior editions they were simply a Sub Class of Priest. Shape Changing, in my opinion, should be a Spell and limited to things like Bears, Wolves and such mundane Animals.

A lot depends on exactly what you are going for with the Class. The Druid is a fairly Martial Character in D&D, mainly because of their association with Clerics. I wouldn't be adverse to reducing Hit Dice, increasing Saves and Skill Points, expanding the Weapon List and limiting Armour Proficiency to Light Armour.