Taking a feat late?

[Forks]

Can you wait until later levels to actually take a feat? Its a question thats arising mainly due to BAB not synching up with BAB requirements for some feats.

[X15lm204]

Yes. Any numerical prerequisites in feats, PrCs, etc are only minimums.

[Forks]

Thanks!

I was pretty sure thats how it worked, just wanted some confirmation. And after 2 failed searches and the 5 min wait for each...posting was just an easier option. :smallsmile:

[Alleine]

Be more specific please. Do you mean pushing back the time you take a feat until the next time you can, or simply not taking your feat at say, first level until you meet the pre-reqs which means taking your first level feat at a higher level..

For the former, absolutely. The latter however, doesn't seem right.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

I'm pretty sure that you can't wait until level four to take your level 3 feat. Taking a specific feat with your 6th level feat instead of your 3rd level feat is of course okay, unless the feat says elsewise.

[Ryuuk]

If you mean taking feats at latter levels, then your opening a can of worms from an optimization standpoint. If the guys at the Wizards Optimization Board aren't doing it then I doubt it's allowed.

[Arbitrarity]

No, he means if you have a feat that requires +4 BAB, and you get a feat at 3 BAB, and 6 BAB, can you take the +4 BAB feat at level 6.

Basically, are prerequisites exact, or >=

[Efstrofos]

No, he means if you have a feat that requires +4 BAB, and you get a feat at 3 BAB, and 6 BAB, can you take the +4 BAB feat at level 6.

Basically, are prerequisites exact, or >=

Nah, I'm his neighbor and we were discussing it earlier. Specifically what he wants to do is hold his level 6 feat until level 7 to take Elusive Target. His build is Monk 2/Fighter 4, so he wouldn't meet the BAB pre-req until level 7.

[brian c]

Nah, I'm his neighbor and we were discussing it earlier. Specifically what he wants to do is hold his level 6 feat until level 7 to take Elusive Target. His build is Monk 2/Fighter 4, so he wouldn't meet the BAB pre-req until level 7.

Yeah, that's what's not allowed. As Ryuuk said, that would be very unbalancing from a game perspective if you were allowed to do that. WHen you get a feat at level 6, you have to choose a feat then. DM may choose to let you retrain, but even then I think it's supposed to be something that you would have been qualified for at the time.

As always, consult your DM. If the DM is okay with it, he/she overrides whatever the books say.

[Efstrofos]

Yeah, that's what's not allowed. As Ryuuk said, that would be very unbalancing from a game perspective if you were allowed to do that. WHen you get a feat at level 6, you have to choose a feat then. DM may choose to let you retrain, but even then I think it's supposed to be something that you would have been qualified for at the time.

As always, consult your DM. If the DM is okay with it, he/she overrides whatever the books say.

Thats actually what we originally thought. However, I don't see it anywhere in the PHB where it says the feat has to be used right away. I agree though, saving feats would be horribly unbalancing.

edit: Just to be clear. I agree that I don't think its meant to be allowed.

[Amphimir Míriel]

Probably not RAW, but I would allow it... The rationale behind it being that you can choose the feat (let's say Weapon Finesse for a Bard at 1st Level), but since you are not meeting the prerequisites you cannot use that feat until you do.

[X15lm204]

Sorry, I missunderstood the question the first time around.
I can see how a very loose interpretation of the RAW might allow you to do this, but I would caution against implementing it; while this particular use may not be game-breaking, it would be very easy to create builds that would be with such a precedent. Best to stick with the RAI and choose a feat immediately when it is granted.

[Miles Invictus]

Mind you, you have to survive a few levels without any feat at all, to gain the benefits of taking a feat late. If it's fine to reward the Wizard for his early-game suffering, I don't see why other classes shouldn't get the same sort of deal.

[The_Werebear]

The only problem with the above is when the game starts at higher levels, and the character has a bunch of feats that can only be attained at those levels while everyone else has a bunch of weaker, lower level ones.

[Efstrofos]

Found the answer to this in a the Official FAQ

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv05182007.zip

On page 12 under the question

"Can a crusader delay learning a new stance to a later level?..."

It clearly states

"As a general rule, you can't ever delay gaining any feature that comes from reaching a new level, whether that's a feat, skills points, class feature, or anything else..."

Hope that helps anyone else who was borderline on the issue.

[Fixer]

While the "Can I elect to select my feat until a higher level?" question has been answered, I have a houserule you might want to consider.

A character may select any feat, regardless of requirements that are not class-based (such as caster level, or fighter level). They may not, however, gain any benefits of a feat unless they meet its requirements, either through natural ability or magical bonuses.

Thus, in your case, you could select the feat at 6th level but it'd be useless until you bring your BAB up to the necessary amount.


The other option is to use the retraining rules in PHB II.

[Keld Denar]

I'm pretty sure (at work w/ no books) that it says in the PHB under advancing in levels. There is a very specific order at which a character levels up.
1 Character gains enough xp to reach next level
2 Character chooses a class to gain that level in
3 Character adds all appropriate bonus' for that class (BAB, spells, hp, etc)
4 Character adds feats if appropriate level (1, 3, 6, etc)
5 Character adds skill ranks
6 ....
7 Profit

Or at least the 1st 5 points. You can't stop at any point in that process.

I'm 100% sure you get your class before your feats and skill points though. It is stated in the FAQ that you can't for example, level to 6, get your 6th level feat needed to qualify for a PClass, take 1st level of PClass as 6th level.

[brian c]

I'm pretty sure (at work w/ no books) that it says in the PHB under advancing in levels. There is a very specific order at which a character levels up.
1 Character gains enough xp to reach next level
2 Character chooses a class to gain that level in
3 Character adds all appropriate bonus' for that class (BAB, spells, hp, etc)
4 Character adds feats if appropriate level (1, 3, 6, etc)
5 Character adds skill ranks
6 ....
7 Profit

Or at least the 1st 5 points. You can't stop at any point in that process.

I'm 100% sure you get your class before your feats and skill points though. It is stated in the FAQ that you can't for example, level to 6, get your 6th level feat needed to qualify for a PClass, take 1st level of PClass as 6th level.

That's correct- same thing goes with any PrC prereq, you can't get the prereq at the same level you take the class. Also, I believe that ability boosts (levels 4,8,12,16,20) come before feats, so for example if you raise your strength to 13 at level 4, you can use your fighter bonus feat at that level to select power attack.

[Lapak]

The other option is to use the retraining rules in PHB II.Actually, the retraining rules specifically disallow assembling your feats in a way that could not have been done as you leveled up normally, unless I'm mistaken. You could drop your level 6 feat if you want, but you have to replace it with something else you could have qualified for at sixth level.

[Fixer]

4 Character adds feats if appropriate level (1, 3, 6, etc)
5 Character adds skill ranks

Why would you have to select feats before selecting skill ranks from the class you have already chosen?

I still like our houserule on feats. We only allow retraining under extreme circumstances so it has never been abused.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Also, I believe that ability boosts (levels 4,8,12,16,20) come before feats....
That's the way it was in 3.0. The order was changed for 3.5. Now you even get ability increases before skill points, allowing you to make the best of increased Intelligence!


Why would you have to select feats before selecting skill ranks from the class you have already chose
Lussmanj's order is incorrect. You do get skill points before you get feats.

See page 58 of the PHB for the correct order. (The steps for levelling up are not OGC, so I cannot provide the full list on account of board rules.)

[Sutremaine]

And after 2 failed searches and the 5 min wait for each...posting was just an easier option. :smallsmile:
You can seach the boards via Google. ( blah blah blah site:http://www.giantitp.com )