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View Full Version : DM Help I really need your help (changing system)



Kalmageddon
2016-03-31, 06:47 AM
I've been running d20, D&D, Pathfinder and that sort of things for 14 years straight and it's finally gotten to the point where I can't stand the flaws anymore. So I would really like to change system and I need help figuring out something that won't make me and my players feel like we traded a problem for another.

What compelled us to consider changing system altogether is mainly how time consuming D&D and similar systems are. Too many dice rolls, too much time wasted saying what my players have to roll compared to just playing the game. The fact that in order to build your character like you want you have to go trough massive amounts of feats, classes and archetypes also doesn't help.
The nail in the coffin for me is the magic system. We are running Eberron, so as you can imagine magic is a pretty big component of this campaign. And deciding which magical items should be equipped by what NPC, or just keeping track of all the spells and what each and every one of them do is far too much for me. Sessions take upwards of 8 hours to prepare just to stat out NPCs and treasure and I don't have that kind of time anymore.

So here's the essential traits for whatever system we might switch to:
- Fast. Possibily without a combat system made of fixed rounds and turns.
- Related to the previous points, as little dice rolling as possibile. Not diceless, because my players like rolling dice, but not something that requires you to roll more than 2 times a turn or equivalent time unit.
- Equipment porn-friendly. It's Eberron so magical items should feel powerful, unique and different. A system where various items and weapons only give some kind of flat bonus is not acceptable. Some kind of well thought out crafting system is also a must have, as the creation of magical items is also important. Note that I'm talking about magical items, but it could just as well be a sci-fi system. High tech gadgets should be relatively easy to convert into magical items, especially given that Eberron treats magic like technology.
- Similarly, a magic system needs to be in place. In order to avoid having to micromanage all the various spells, something with only broad magical disciplines but no detailed effects would be preferable, kinda like Force powers. Unlike force powers, they must not be massively OP. A character should still be able to focus on magic as his specialty but it shouldn't outshine everything else or become a pain in the ass for me to properly challenge.
- This is probably due to my personal preference, but a system without levels or where level progression isn't that important would also be welcome. I want my players to move up in challenges and power, sure, but not to the extent where something as mundane as getting shot with a gun can be ignored. I would like there to always be tension whenever violence is involved.
- Also very important for me, no overly undefined rules that needs constant GM intervention to work. This includes almost all narrative heavy systems where what the characters can or can't do is usually up to the GM as there is no clearly defined way for things to work. I'm ok with simple, I'm not ok with having to do the work that the game designers didn't feel like doing.
- Finally, a detailed character creation that must include both varied mechanical aspects (albeit simple ones) and background elements. Something like in Rogue Trader, where each trait you pick during character creation also gives input on where you come from, how you lived your life and what kind of menaces you faced would be ideal.

Finally, a little P.S. in order to make things clear:
Why is FATE my absolute last resort.
I do not like FATE. Every time I've tried the system we got stuck in character creation. Aspects were never good enough for them to work properly, Stunts all felt the same and everyone complained that there was nothing stopping each character in performing every role at once. Also, there is so little pre-made stuff that the rules might as well not be there. It's like IKEA for rpgs, only without the instructions and you have to carve the various pieces of furniture out of wooden logs by yourself.
I know that, had I not clarified this, most of the recommendations for this thread would have been FATE, because apparently in FATE you can do anything. Ok, you can, I can't. I just can't seem to use it properly and at this point me and most of the people I've played with have given up.
If no valid alternatives are presented, FATE is already there as an option, but only as a last resort, because I would have to spend a lot of time setting things up so that they might work for Eberron. So please do not recommend FATE. You can, however, recommend a supplement for FATE where the developers have actually put some work into it and therefore already has a bunch of pre-made Aspects and well detailed rules and the GM doesn't need to fill in the blanks. But if you do, provide a non-FATE alternative as well.

Thank you for reading this far, I hope you can help.

Lorsa
2016-03-31, 07:55 AM
These are always tough questions to answer.

How much of the Ars Magica system fits your bill? It's certainly built around a large but very flexible magic system.

obryn
2016-03-31, 08:41 AM
Nah, no worries, it sounds like Fate Core would be a completely wrong game for what you're looking for.

I'm most tempted to suggest Savage Worlds. It seems to tick most of those boxes. Not all of them - but most.

If you're looking for a lighter D&D-like, you could mod 13th Age into Eberron pretty easily.

Kalmageddon
2016-03-31, 10:18 AM
Nah, no worries, it sounds like Fate Core would be a completely wrong game for what you're looking for.

I'm most tempted to suggest Savage Worlds. It seems to tick most of those boxes. Not all of them - but most.

If you're looking for a lighter D&D-like, you could mod 13th Age into Eberron pretty easily.

I have the core book for Savage Worlds, though I never checked it out properly. Which boxes does it ticks, exactly? Some are more important than others.

obryn
2016-03-31, 10:35 AM
I have the core book for Savage Worlds, though I never checked it out properly. Which boxes does it ticks, exactly? Some are more important than others.



So here's the essential traits for whatever system we might switch to:
- Fast. Possibily without a combat system made of fixed rounds and turns.
- Related to the previous points, as little dice rolling as possibile. Not diceless, because my players like rolling dice, but not something that requires you to roll more than 2 times a turn or equivalent time unit.
It's fast, yeah, and much faster than D&D, but there are multiple dice rolls and fixed rounds/turns. Not much math, though - you're rolling dice and looking for the highest number.

- Equipment porn-friendly. It's Eberron so magical items should feel powerful, unique and different. A system where various items and weapons only give some kind of flat bonus is not acceptable. Some kind of well thought out crafting system is also a must have, as the creation of magical items is also important. Note that I'm talking about magical items, but it could just as well be a sci-fi system. High tech gadgets should be relatively easy to convert into magical items, especially given that Eberron treats magic like technology.
Should be adaptable. It's structured pretty traditionally. "Weird Science" is a thing.

- Similarly, a magic system needs to be in place. In order to avoid having to micromanage all the various spells, something with only broad magical disciplines but no detailed effects would be preferable, kinda like Force powers. Unlike force powers, they must not be massively OP. A character should still be able to focus on magic as his specialty but it shouldn't outshine everything else or become a pain in the ass for me to properly challenge.
There's a magic system and three good ways into it - Magic, Psionic, and Weird Science. The latter is great for Eberron.

- This is probably due to my personal preference, but a system without levels or where level progression isn't that important would also be welcome. I want my players to move up in challenges and power, sure, but not to the extent where something as mundane as getting shot with a gun can be ignored. I would like there to always be tension whenever violence is involved.
You're good here.

- Also very important for me, no overly undefined rules that needs constant GM intervention to work. This includes almost all narrative heavy systems where what the characters can or can't do is usually up to the GM as there is no clearly defined way for things to work. I'm ok with simple, I'm not ok with having to do the work that the game designers didn't feel like doing.
It's much lighter than D&D, but it's rules-medium rather than rules-light.

- Finally, a detailed character creation that must include both varied mechanical aspects (albeit simple ones) and background elements. Something like in Rogue Trader, where each trait you pick during character creation also gives input on where you come from, how you lived your life and what kind of menaces you faced would be ideal.
There's skills, traits, and attributes. Advantages and disadvantages. Working out - say - Dragonmarks shouldn't be particularly challenging.
Additionally, Savage Worlds is a very "Pulp" oriented system, which is completely in sync with Eberron's style. There's good rules for chase scenes and a focus on action/adventure.

Finally, you're not going off on your own.

Keith Baker's blog: http://keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-1018-converting-eberron/
Some Google Doc I can't look at from here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sE2Xa9aWOlHXfB3ZX14gdJLvxm3Lzs2qJfaJozlx1vQ


Give it a shot. Most people I know find the D&D->SW transition really easy. As I said, it's very much a traditional-style RPG rather than a story-oriented one like *World or Fate Core.

Thinker
2016-03-31, 11:02 AM
Dungeon World might be calling your name. You can see the full rule-set for free here: http://www.dungeonworldsrd.com/ or http://book.dwgazetteer.com/

Let's go through your requirements and see which boxes it ticks.



So here's the essential traits for whatever system we might switch to:
- Fast. Possibily without a combat system made of fixed rounds and turns.

Combat is fast and doesn't take place in rounds or turns. It happens more like this:

GM: You enter the dark temple hall. Shadows dance in the corners, a pungent smell of incense fills your nostrils. The orc guards see you and scream. Two archers draw down on you while two brutes wielding great axes move to protect the priest trying to summon Orlgath.
Gregor: I want to finish this quickly. I charge through the hall straight at the orc brutes, slashing through them with my halberd.
GM: Huh. That sounds like you're ignoring the archers and rushing straight for the other guards. Roll defy danger +Con since you're not really trying to dodge them, but just trying to push through.
Gregor: 7. So, what happens?
GM: Arrows whizzing by, you avoid the bulk of the attack. Sinathel is standing directly behind you though, do you want to take the arrows or let them fly by to hit Sinathel?
Gregor: Well, I am going to be fighting the other two...I'll let Sinathel take the damage.
GM: Sinathel, Gregor left you out to dry. You can try to Defy Danger on your own though, but tell me how you plan to do it.
Sinathel: Alright. Can I use shapeshifting instead? I'd be much better at that.
GM: How would that work?
Sinathel: I want to stop, drop and roll and while I'm rolling I want to shape shift into a wolf.
GM: Nice. Roll Defy Danger +Wis for the shape shifting bit.
Sinathel: 10!
GM: Good roll. Your wolf form lets you bite, pounce on an enemy, and sniff out something interesting. You rolled a 10 so you can use wolf moves 3 times before you change back.
Sinathel: OK. I want to pounce on one of the archers.
GM: Great. You rush at the archer and leap into the air, but before we find out what happens there, let's see what's going on with Gregor...

The primary thing about Dungeon World is that playing it is playing out a conversation. Things happen as a reaction to the player's actions and they're the only ones making rolls (except for damage). If a player misses (or partially misses), the GM gets to make a move, which typically costs the player something.



- Related to the previous points, as little dice rolling as possibile. Not diceless, because my players like rolling dice, but not something that requires you to roll more than 2 times a turn or equivalent time unit.
Players roll 2d6 to perform their moves. A 10+ is a success and the player typically has no bad things happen. A 7-9 is a partial success in that the player gets to have what she wanted happen, but there's a cost or choice to be made. A 6 or lower is a failure and really bad stuff tends to happen. There is a list of basic moves that everyone can do (like Hack & Slash) and then there are class-based moves (like the druid's shapeshifting ability). Damage is rolled like in D&D - d4, d6, d8, etc.



- Equipment porn-friendly. It's Eberron so magical items should feel powerful, unique and different. A system where various items and weapons only give some kind of flat bonus is not acceptable. Some kind of well thought out crafting system is also a must have, as the creation of magical items is also important. Note that I'm talking about magical items, but it could just as well be a sci-fi system. High tech gadgets should be relatively easy to convert into magical items, especially given that Eberron treats magic like technology.
There are magic items and it's easy to create more. If you need help, there's a public Google+ group that has people making and reviewing magic items.



- Similarly, a magic system needs to be in place. In order to avoid having to micromanage all the various spells, something with only broad magical disciplines but no detailed effects would be preferable, kinda like Force powers. Unlike force powers, they must not be massively OP. A character should still be able to focus on magic as his specialty but it shouldn't outshine everything else or become a pain in the ass for me to properly challenge.
There's a magic system that is only accessible by specific classes. The spells are specific and are inspired by classic DnD spells. They don't tend to become overpowered like DnD's spells, however. There's also rituals, accessible by wizards, which allow them to create new effects from scratch. Spells also aren't entirely reliable - you roll for casting them just like everything else.



- This is probably due to my personal preference, but a system without levels or where level progression isn't that important would also be welcome. I want my players to move up in challenges and power, sure, but not to the extent where something as mundane as getting shot with a gun can be ignored. I would like there to always be tension whenever violence is involved.
Dungeon World is a class/level system, but the differences in level aren't so stark as in DnD. You don't gain base attack bonus at each level. Instead, for any action you roll 2d6 plus a relevant attribute. You don't improve at that as you level up unless you improve an attribute in some way. Instead, levels offer new options for the characters. The wizard can add a new spell. The barbarian can add a new move inspired by famous barbarians (Smash! lets the barbarian destroy an object being carried by an enemy when she rolls a 12+ to use the hack & slash move). Also, every class has moves that are usable when outside of combat.



- Also very important for me, no overly undefined rules that needs constant GM intervention to work. This includes almost all narrative heavy systems where what the characters can or can't do is usually up to the GM as there is no clearly defined way for things to work. I'm ok with simple, I'm not ok with having to do the work that the game designers didn't feel like doing.
While the GM needs to be involved in the process, I wouldn't say it takes GM intervention to work. The player says what her character is doing and the GM figures out what move that fits with. The players' actions are restricted by what moves their characters know.



- Finally, a detailed character creation that must include both varied mechanical aspects (albeit simple ones) and background elements. Something like in Rogue Trader, where each trait you pick during character creation also gives input on where you come from, how you lived your life and what kind of menaces you faced would be ideal.
Creating new characters is not all that varied. Level 1 bards start off pretty much the same as every other level 1 bard. There are differences based on race - an elven bard gains a different move at level 1 from a human bard. However, there is background customization. Every character is intended to relate to the others in the party in some way through Bonds, for example the cleric bonds:

Fill in the name of one of your companions in at least one:

_______________ has insulted my deity; I do not trust them.

_______________ is a good and faithful person; I trust them implicitly.

_______________ is in constant danger, I will keep them safe.

I am working on converting _______________ to my faith.


It might not be a perfect fit, but it seems a far better fit than DnD is for what you're looking for.

Edit: There's also online resources for Dungeon World Eberron: https://plus.google.com/communities/114553231642072295501, http://keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-1018-converting-eberron/, https://eberron-dungeonworld-edition.obsidianportal.com/

2D8HP
2016-03-31, 12:14 PM
Chaosium's "Basic Role-playing" system used in Call of Cthullu/Elric! /Magic World/Runequest is pretty easy/good.

Airk
2016-03-31, 12:28 PM
Yeah, I vote for Dungeon World:


Fast, flexible combat - there's no initiative and no 'rounds', combat just flows from person to person as appropriate.
Low levels of dice rolling - pretty much everything is resolved with a single 2d6 roll and sometimes a damage roll. Very complex and successful actions may require two subsequent 2d6 rolls.
"Equipment porn" friendly - it's a little weak here, but it's easy to come up with interesting magical items. But they need to be meaningfully different - you're not going to get the equivalent of Long Sword +2 vs Bastard Sword +1 vs Broadsword +1, +2 vs humanoids here. Gear generally does not add directly to your rolls.
Magic System - The default 'magic system' is D&D-like spells for a couple of classes along with "ritual" moves that allow more complex/powerful/unique effects. It's nothing special, but if you've been using a D&D magic system for a while, it'll be fine.
Level Progression - the difference between a very levelled character and a level 1 character in terms of raw power is small. The higher level character will have some more options, and better raw stats, but the two characters can absolutely stand shoulder to shoulder and both contribute to the game.
No "excessive GM involvement" - all the rules have clear triggers for when you use them. Otherwise, you just roleplay. There should very seldom be any question of when to invoke a rule or how a rule works.
Character creation isn't very mechanically detailed; You pick a class, some options for that class, and assign your stats. You also need to assign Bonds with the other classes, and the GM may ask you all kinds of world defining questions. You can literally have a DW character good to go in 10 minutes with no previous knowledge of the game. I think you will find that games that have intricate character creation are going to suffer from the problems you are trying to avoid in D&D. Actually, I'm a little confused to find you listing this here when one of your complaints was the amount of fiddling required to make a D&D character.



It does not suffer from any of the "toolkit" or "genreless" issues that you run into with Fate - things are clearly defined, and the Fighter does stuff very differently from the Wizard. You will probably want to do some additional "tooling" for setting specific elements like Dragonmarks (I suggest writing up moves for each of them) but it shouldn't be particularly onerous.

obryn
2016-03-31, 12:30 PM
I have a great deal of love for Dungeon World, but it looked from the list like the OP was looking for a crunchier game experience. If his issue with rules-light games is that they leave most of the heavy lifting for the GM, DW will fall pretty flat.

I'm also not completely sold on its viability for a long-term campaign, but YMMV.

Kalmageddon
2016-03-31, 12:43 PM
I have a great deal of love for Dungeon World, but it looked from the list like the OP was looking for a crunchier game experience. If his issue with rules-light games is that they leave most of the heavy lifting for the GM, DW will fall pretty flat.

I'm also not completely sold on its viability for a long-term campaign, but YMMV.

Yup, agreed.
Sorry if I shoot down your idea guys, but DW is my personal nightmare as a GM. I do not have the kind of group that can handle combat as a "conversation" with no clear order, or where most of the challenges are ass-pulls from the GM. It's a system that would feel both unfair to my players and too much work for me. Improvisation and keeping things interesting no matter the situations are a must for DW and I'm much more of a planner than I am an improviser.
And beside, I seem to remember that magical items are pretty flat in DW, as well as fairly rare. In Eberron, everyone should have magical equipment out of the wazoo and should be able to readly buy it at the nearest Dragonmark enclave.

I have a feeling that rather than a fantasy system, converting a sci-fi one would be better. They tend to be more gritty, which I like, and they have no problem with tons of gadgets and gizmos that I could freely distribute between my players and the various NPCs. It's just an impression, though.

Airk
2016-03-31, 02:04 PM
Yup, agreed.
Sorry if I shoot down your idea guys, but DW is my personal nightmare as a GM. I do not have the kind of group that can handle combat as a "conversation" with no clear order, or where most of the challenges are ass-pulls from the GM. It's a system that would feel both unfair to my players and too much work for me. Improvisation and keeping things interesting no matter the situations are a must for DW and I'm much more of a planner than I am an improviser.
And beside, I seem to remember that magical items are pretty flat in DW, as well as fairly rare. In Eberron, everyone should have magical equipment out of the wazoo and should be able to readly buy it at the nearest Dragonmark enclave.

I have a feeling that rather than a fantasy system, converting a sci-fi one would be better. They tend to be more gritty, which I like, and they have no problem with tons of gadgets and gizmos that I could freely distribute between my players and the various NPCs. It's just an impression, though.

I have no problem with you rejecting the suggestion, but you might want to refine what you are looking for if that's the case, because it reads as a better fit than pretty much any other system I know (and I'm kinda convinced that you are shooting yourself in the foot with complex chargen.).

I don't really think the magic item stuff is a serious concern - my brain files that under "Setting crap that you'll need to deal with regardless of what system you choose" because the ONLY game system that is gonna provide you with a horsecart full of Eberron Magic Items is the system you are trying to LEAVE. :)

I don't really share your impression of sci-fi systems necessary either. Many of them are strangely BAD at providing the players with cool toys because they feel like stuff needs to "make sense" whereas magic items can do WTFEver, because after all, it's magic!

That said, if you're unprepared to support the style of play that DW wants, then that's a perfectly good reason not to play the game!

You might want to check out Shadow of the Demon Lord and/or Symbaroum, both of which are relatively modern fantasy games and might cover some bases for you here, but I haven't read either of them yet, so take this suggestion as what it is - a "maybe you should look at" suggestion rather than a "This is a good fit" suggestion.

JoeJ
2016-03-31, 03:08 PM
You should consider Mutants & Masterminds. It has no levels, classes or feat chains; build your character however you want (within the point budget set by the GM). For a fantasy setting, you can require that all powers have the Magic descriptor. The powers themselves are fairly broad, and the ability to do Power Stunts makes them very flexible. There is also a separate mechanic for magical rituals. Skills are also very broad, and not setting dependent (for example, there's a "Vehicles" skill instead of "Airplanes" or "Chariots").

Combat usually requires only two rolls per turn: you roll to hit and your opponent rolls to resist the (fixed by the attack type) damage. Failed resistance rolls inflict status effects, so there are no hit points to keep track of.

The rules cover creation of any kind of gear, magical or mundane, and differentiate between devices (items that are integral to the character concept) and equipment (stuff that you can buy). The GM decides what counts as equipment in any particular setting.

Kane0
2016-03-31, 03:26 PM
I can probably already guess your response, but have you had a look at 5e D&D? The endless piles of feats, spells and other splatbook content has been knocked down a half dozen notches and the rules/chargen has had a generous helping of simplification and speeding up too.

JoeJ
2016-03-31, 03:47 PM
Also, I forgot to mention earlier that Rogue Genius Games (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/6101/Rogue-Genius-Games?filters=0_0_1400_0_0) has already converted most of the standard D&D monsters for M&M, and has guides to creating characters based on a couple of the standard classes.

Eisenheim
2016-03-31, 04:19 PM
You're gonna have to pick some of those criteria to prioritize, because they work directly against each other.

Fast, low dice rolling means you don't get equipment porn, complex magic system and detailed character creation.

It sounds like you want a rules light rules heavy rpg.

Kalmageddon
2016-04-01, 05:21 AM
You're gonna have to pick some of those criteria to prioritize, because they work directly against each other.

Fast, low dice rolling means you don't get equipment porn, complex magic system and detailed character creation.

It sounds like you want a rules light rules heavy rpg.

I don't agree at all.
Fast combat can still have equipment be varied and interesting, there is no correlation between the two.
And I don't want a complex magic system, I would actually like a fairly straightfoward one. But again, this has nothing to do with detailed character creation.

By the way, with "detailed character creation" I don't mean having to stat out every single solitary aspect of your character, but rather having a system that takes the player by hand and allows him to make a character not by just picking a race and a class but also by having meaningful events and background elements tied in with character creation. So if my players only have a very broad and undefined idea of how to rolelpaly their characters (which is absolutely the case) they can flash it out a little bit more.
I used Rogue Trader as an example because it does just that. At the end of character creation you have a coherent origin story for your character, with plenty of details up to you and your GM to customize it more.

LuisDantas
2016-04-01, 07:22 AM
I must make it clear that I have no actual experience with the system whatsoever, but since there is a BoH of Hackmaster running currently and I hear good things about it (and there is a free sample of the rules available as well) you might want to take a look at it.

ImNotTrevor
2016-04-01, 08:13 AM
I will go double for this system probably either not existing yet, or being insanely difficult to find.

And as it happens, a lot of these criteria really do clash badly. Not necessarily, sure. But the odds of having a system that does all this elegantly? One in a billion. (No system is perfect.)

Here's why:
Low Rolls means you don't roll very often, or the GM doesn't roll at all, etc. Or at least, a very simplified rolling system.

Now, fewer rolls means fewer things that the system has you roll for. So having magic items be plentiful AND impactful is unlikely. Why?
Because there is just less stuff to impact.

Lets say you have a system that has somehow compressed everything down to one of 5 kinds of roll.

Magic items can only have an effect on 5 things, or introduce new things to roll for (negating the Low Rolls you had before and introducing more rolling.)

You can handle this by having the magic items be more narrative than anything else, which bumps the number of magic items to Infinity because handy things can be magic items and you have low rolls still... but they might feel a lot less impactful.

So as it happens, while it is theoretically possible to have all three, it would be a pretty hefty design challenge, and an even heftier challenge to hunt down. (Unless it became very popular.)

Also, Dungeon World is far from Rules Light. It just has rules focused on Narrative rather than Math. For instance, most rolls in D&D have a binary result. (Success or Failure.)
Dungeon World rolls at face value have trinary results. But the rules actually create more outcomes than that. I believe for Apocalypse World (the mother system for DW) I calculated there to be upwards of 30 possible outcomes from a single roll of the "Read a Situation" move, all of which were supported within the rules structure of the game as narrative events (even if not with numbers attached.) So yeah, Powered by the Apocalypse games are NOT rules light unless you define a normal amount of rules to be the 600+ pages of rules D&D sits you down with. Apocalypse world is about 200 pages long and Dungeon World is the same length. Those games have a LOT of rules. Just not the same kinds that D&D has.

Yora
2016-04-01, 08:39 AM
I very much recommend taking a look at Basic Fantasy (http://basicfantasy.org/). It's basically B/X D&D with the math cleaned up to make sense to sane people.

It should be very familiar to players of 3rd edition but infinitely more simple and that simplicity means that classes and levels don't mean nearly as much as in 3rd edition or AD&D. Aside from using the standard D&D spellcasting system, which for an Eberon campaign would be a plus, I think it's the neatest RPG system I've ever seen.

Fri
2016-04-01, 10:03 AM
I'm seconding the recommendation for Savage World.

I'm not going to point the checklists one by one, but basically Savage World is played just as DnD (that is, you have skills, you roll dice, you add modifiers or penalties, etc) but much more simplified, and made so that it's easy to make things up, for example making up monster on the go, or making up equipments on the go and so on.

Aleolus
2016-04-01, 10:30 AM
If I might make a suggestion: Take a look at the CODA system. It would involve a fair amount of homebrew conversion if you wanted to use Eberronic characters, due to the fact that the system is built within the Lord of the Rings universe, and its not a perfect fit, but I think its worth a look. Its fairly fast (though combat is a bit clunky), character creation is pretty detailed (though it involves a lot of flipping back and forth in the book) and a magic system that is one of my favorite ways to implement magic