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View Full Version : Wishes: How Cruel Are You?



quinron
2016-04-01, 11:20 PM
Whether it be D&D's game-breaking spell, a genie's lamp, a boon from the gods, or what have you, making a wish is one of the iconic moments in a fantasy RPG. But decades of Sorcerer's Apprentice-type screwings over due to poor wording have turned players into contract lawyers and have taught GMs to take advantage of every loophole to indulge their vindictive streak.

How cruel are you when your players make a wish? What circumstances can change that?

For example, in my D&D game, demons, devils, and evil genies granting wishes are going to exploit boor loopholes far more often than an angel, a good genie, or a self-cast Wish spell.

NichG
2016-04-01, 11:46 PM
I tell my players that I'm far more likely to outright grant a simple, honestly stated Wish than something written up in a page of legalese. If the circumstances are such that the Wish should come from a hostile source, generally the way I run it is not that the hostile source tries to pervert the intention of the Wish, but rather that the act of granting the Wish also grants a completely independent Wish to the hostile source itself. I also don't run Wishes as generally being omnipotent sources of power that can do anything, but rather things that will do as best they can to satisfy the intent of the wisher given the constraints on the power.

Essentially, I want players to be thinking 'whats the coolest reasonable thing to use this on?' rather than 'how can we protect ourselves from being screwed over?' or 'how can I figure out the perfect wording that will break the game?'. The first thing encourages simplicity and clarity, making it easier for me to actually understand what the player wants and will be satisfied with. Because of the second thing, if the wish is one that should have negative consequences because of its nature, the player accepts those consequences whatever they might be when they make the choice to pursue the wish and their job is just to figure out how to get as much of a positive thing as they can given that the negative side is out of their control. Because of the third thing, there's no need for me to keep wish-twisting in reserve as a balancing method to prevent obviously game-breaking wishes such as 'I wish for infinite wishes', etc.

Tiktakkat
2016-04-01, 11:52 PM
It depends on what they wish for.
If they try and break my game, they will regret it.
If they want something some other 9th level spell can provide, they can get away with it.

The source of the wish will affect things as well, but usually less than what it is they are wishing for.

As for players who can out-contract me, I have not met one yet.

Kelb_Panthera
2016-04-02, 12:00 AM
How cruel am I?

Depends on whether you're trying to game the system.

quinron
2016-04-02, 12:07 AM
...there's no need for me to keep wish-twisting in reserve as a balancing method to prevent obviously game-breaking wishes such as 'I wish for infinite wishes', etc.

I've come to enjoy the time-stuttering variant for the "infinite wishes" problem: once you finish saying, "I wish I had infinite wishes," time skips back to you beginning that sentence again; repeat ad infinitum. Locked in a time loop because you got greedy.

Slipperychicken
2016-04-02, 12:31 AM
As a player, I've seen so many shenanigans, it makes me want to go for "I wish that you shall never hereafter grant any wishes to anyone ever". Just to spare future would-be wishers (and anyone else that might be harmed by their wishes) from the genie's chicanery and word-twisting. Failing that, just waste the wishes so I don't feel tempted to use them.


I've come to enjoy the time-stuttering variant for the "infinite wishes" problem: once you finish saying, "I wish I had infinite wishes," time skips back to you beginning that sentence again; repeat ad infinitum. Locked in a time loop because you got greedy.

Even Aladdin's genie had rules, notably including "you can't wish for more wishes". A sensible GM could implement a similar set of rules.

BWR
2016-04-02, 01:55 AM
How cruel am I?

Depends on whether you're trying to game the system.

This.

If it furthers the story and doesn't resolve everything wrong in one go, I'm pretty lenient. Tippy-like stuff will simply fail if I'm feeling nice or more likely blow up spectacularly in your face.

goto124
2016-04-02, 03:42 AM
Or make the Wish-maker be a powerful and sufficiently sensible person.

"I wish for infinite wishes"? Frying pan to the head.

nedz
2016-04-02, 05:15 AM
I liked the AD&D 2E variant whereby the wish was granted by the local 'power'. If you make the wish whilst standing in your local friendly temple then you will probably get what you wanted, irrespective of what you actually said; in an enemy temple you are currently sacking: not so much.

I also apply the principle of least action: what's the least amount of power required to satisfy the wish ?

"I wish for infinite wishes"? Frying pan to the head.
Principle of least action: you get Prestidigitation at will.

"I wish for a +5 Holy Avenger"
Principle of least action: this is just a teleport and guess who has a Paladin after them now, for theft.

I also treat the word 'and' as a delimiter in overly complex wishes. "I wish Fred was Raised and Healed" is probably fine; but much more than this risks it being treated as two wishes. You can just have the Wish giver interject with the word "Granted" at the appropriate point to accomplish this.

noob
2016-04-02, 06:09 AM
Principle of least action: you get Prestidigitation at will.
This is much better than unlimited wishes.



"I wish for a +5 Holy Avenger"
Principle of least action: this is just a teleport and guess who has a Paladin after them now, for theft.
Logically it should teleport the wisher to the paladin since the wisher is willing since he made the wish(while the paladin is not willing to have his sword disappear and so he have his will to try to counter the teleport and teleporting something against the will of somebody is much much much harder than teleporting someone who is willing)
or if the wisher is not willing to be teleported by his wish because he did not intended to there should we a comparison of the will saves and the one with the lower will save is teleported.

RazorChain
2016-04-02, 10:13 AM
I am very cruel....I never dole out wishes

Quertus
2016-04-02, 10:21 AM
How cruel am I?

Depends on whether you're trying to game the system.

I do something similar, I think.

When the system says that X wishes are safe, well, those are safe. Otherwise, expect at least something unexpected to occur.

I am most cruel with wishes that use OOC information.

My next level of cruelty occurs when you go crazy with the power of the wish.

When you wish for something awesome but reasonable, I'm a minor rules lawyer, but not overly cruel.

When you wish for something well below wish's pay grade, it's generally safe, although there may be unexpected hiccups.

When you wish for something you could have had anyway, kudos.

For example, back in 2e, I had a player's character wish for something the player could have given him to begin with: namely, the character had always wanted to be an elven wizard. Well, changing race required a system shock roll (kinda mean of me, but felt odd not to include it). Because he wished to be "....a wizard, and every thing that went with it", I was left to figure out what went with being a wizard. I decided a spellbook (which had a fairly generous selection of spells) and training. Queue angry archmage showing up, under a compulsion to teach the character about magic. First thing he taught him was about the danger of wishes, and how they can have unintended consequences!

Slipperychicken
2016-04-02, 10:43 AM
For example, back in 2e, I had a player's character wish for something the player could have given him to begin with: namely, the character had always wanted to be an elven wizard.

I dunno. Personally, I like when an RPG character is for some reason not quite proud of or satisfied with his own identity, and instead wishes or aspires to change. I imagine that being particularly prevalent in the case of muggles wishing they were magic; after all, those damned wizards have everything easy, but us honest muggles have to do everything the hard way. Same goes for someone born ugly wishing he was more attractive, or to have been born a member of a less-stigmatized race. I could totally see an acne-scarred dwarf fighter lamenting her romantic prospects and sometimes quietly wishing she was a beautiful human sorceress instead.

OldTrees1
2016-04-02, 10:49 AM
OOC problems dealt with OOC: Nobody uses wish to try to break the game at my table. Any attempt merely rewinds time to before wish was cast and we continue from there.


In game the cruelty of the wishes depends on 5 things:
1) The mental ability of the player phrasing the wish as demonstrated in the phrasing
2) The mental ability of the PC of the player phrasing the wish as it would modify the phrasing
3) The character granting the wish as demonstrated by motives
4) The mental ability of the character granting the wish as it would examine the phrasing
5) My mental ability to think of a result that is reasonable for the above


In other words: I want you to treat the wish as dangerous if mishandled but I want you to succeed.
You may mess up and a genie might find some way to harm you with your wish or you may repeat Roy's 2 gates mistake(asking which of 2 when there are 3 remaining). Or it might go off without a problem.

Belac93
2016-04-02, 10:56 AM
If my players wished for infinite wishes, I would give them infinite wishes. Then, I would twist around every single wish they made.

"I wish Ted could be raised and healed?" Congratulations, you are now fighting a full health vampire.
"I wish this monster would die?" Sure, why not? The monster dies, and then reanimates.
"I wish for 100'000'000 gp?" Of course! But it appears on top of you.

If a player wished for most of these things with their 1 wish, I'd be fine with that. Ted it alive again, the monster is dead, and you have 100'000'000 gp. (although it might be stolen from a dragons hoard for the last one.)

goto124
2016-04-02, 11:03 AM
"I wish this monster would die?" Sure, why not? The monster dies, and then reanimates.

The next day, in the worst possible situation for a(nother) monster to enter:

"HOW DID THIS MONSTER APPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE?"
"DIDN'T WE KILL IT YESTERDAY? WITH A WISH!"
"STOP WISHING YOUR STUFF, ALEX!"

Toilet Cobra
2016-04-02, 11:11 AM
Not very. Typically I just tell someone why their wish won't work, rather than letting it go through with weird consequences. I have a pretty good group though, so it's never really been that difficult to get them to understand "I can have anything a 9th-level spell could do for me".

Mr.Moron
2016-04-02, 11:36 AM
It would depend entirely on the entity granting the wish. That said I'm more likely to introduce a wish-granter as bonus than a trap. However if was doing the "wish as trap" I think i'd try to telegraph to the player ahead of time that it's a super terrible idea, while making the idea seem as appealing as possible for the character.

Darth Ultron
2016-04-02, 12:34 PM
I'm very cruel.

I go by the simple motto of ''you can't get anything for free''. This is something every intelligent, wise being should know. And they will never make a wish.

I don't go by the ''rules lawyer'' interpretation of a wish, no matter how hard a player does. The wish will have a bad, cruel outcome no matter what.

A player that makes too many wishes will likely end up with a dead character.

Kami2awa
2016-04-02, 12:58 PM
In most of the fantasy worlds I've gamed in, GMs simply rule that Wish does not exist.

Final Hyena
2016-04-02, 01:00 PM
I change how a wish works based on its source, so if it comes from the chaotic god then it's always gunna **** you over, if it comes from the motherly god then it is best used to help others or you'll get a good lesson etc etc. Beyond that I tend to try and complete the affect as easily as possible.

Lord Torath
2016-04-03, 08:16 PM
Okay, so how would you react to this wish?

"I wish to be able to see as clearly in the dark as I currently see in the light". From a human with normal vision.

Kelb_Panthera
2016-04-03, 08:20 PM
Okay, so how would you react to this wish?

"I wish to be able to see as clearly in the dark as I currently see in the light". From a human with normal vision.

Partial fulfillment. They get dark vision out to 30 feet.

OldTrees1
2016-04-03, 09:51 PM
Okay, so how would you react to this wish?

"I wish to be able to see as clearly in the dark as I currently see in the light". From a human with normal vision.

What are the motives of the wish granter?
Benevolent: You can now see in the dark, even magical darkness, as far as you would be able to see if it were not dark. (Ignore lighting conditions when rolling spot checks)
Neutral: Darkvision range = current sight range(probably indoors so radius of the room or length of the hall). Probably Darkvision 30ft or 60ft. (Here the word "currently" backfired)
Malicious: You can never see in the dark. Thus your vision in the dark(0ft) will always be as clear as currently in the light. (Here the word "currently" protected the wisher)

Slipperychicken
2016-04-03, 10:50 PM
Okay, so how would you react to this wish?

"I wish to be able to see as clearly in the dark as I currently see in the light". From a human with normal vision.

You could give it to him as a limited use power. Say he gets 3-6 hours of unlimited-range darkvision per day. It's hardly game-breaking.

Templarkommando
2016-04-03, 11:12 PM
I have personally shied away from implementing wishes in my campaign world. Technically they exist, but I've avoided the topic for a multitude of reasons. The following webcomic is a good illustration of why:

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/06/28

I want to echo the calls for certain rules surrounding wishes. In fact, in the 3.5 PHB, there's a whole slew of rules that go with the 9th level wish spell. I'd be sure and enforce these as concepts:

1.) Protect the campaign world. - A wish that brings an end to everything, or even the engine for adventure should be avoided.

2.) Something that trivializes gameplay - No weapons that kill all enemies simply if the player thinks it so... things that completely break game mechanics. These are bad things.

Tiktakkat
2016-04-03, 11:14 PM
Okay, so how would you react to this wish?

"I wish to be able to see as clearly in the dark as I currently see in the light". From a human with normal vision.

Good Player (brings the munchies) - darkvision 120 ft. and low-light vision
Ordinary Player - darkvision or low-light vision, but in an item that can be stolen or spell-like ability of limited duration
Poor Player (finishes the munchies) - darkvision spell cast on him once, right then
Annoying Player (backwashed the soda) - unlimited darkvision plus light blindness (he sees in the dark as he currently sees in the light, he also sees in the light as he currently sees in the dark)
Really Annoying Player (tries to rules weasel me on a constant basis, dogears my books, touches my dice, annoys my cat, or similar offenses) - where is the wish made? 10'x10' room? gets darkvision 10', since that is as he "currently", sees in the light OR turned into an orc or similar monster with darkvision OR effect deferred until he dies and becomes a petitioner, gaining darkvision (he wished "to be able", presumed future tense, so at some point he will be able, just not anytime it will be of use) OR he will be able to see clearly in "The Dark", a specific location he is unlikely to ever reach, as he would see in "The Light", another specific location where it is so bright he would be blinded, OR several other gratuitously abusive options, as that phrasing is egregiously open-ended and you really shouldn't touch my dice

icefractal
2016-04-04, 01:39 AM
I'm very cruel.

I go by the simple motto of ''you can't get anything for free''. This is something every intelligent, wise being should know. And they will never make a wish.I don't think that a spell which only the greatest mages can cast, plus a hefty sacrifice of life force counts as "getting something for free", but hey.

More importantly, this seems kind of pointless. You might as well just get rid of Wish in this case - why would anyone even learn it if it exists solely as a source of problems?

Or is this a case of "Mislead the players, then laugh at them for believing anything you said?"

NichG
2016-04-04, 01:52 AM
Okay, so how would you react to this wish?

"I wish to be able to see as clearly in the dark as I currently see in the light". From a human with normal vision.

Weak (repeatable) source: Permanency + Darkvision, CL17

Strong (one-off) source: wisher's vision is replaced with density-sense, basically like a ring of x-ray vision but without the downside. Functions as blindsight within 120ft, as normal sight but with material composition replacing native color sense and not caring about light level out to the usual range. The character becomes unable to perceive light directly, but gains immunity to visual illusions.

It Sat Rap
2016-04-04, 02:28 AM
Hmmm, I have been a GM for over 4 years, but I have never granted a player a wish so far. :smalltongue:

Anyway, here is my solution:

-A wish granted by a friendly creature is granted without any loopholes.
-A wish granted by a hostile creature is granted with loopholes and never turns out good.
-A wish granted by a neutral creature or a magic item depends on luck. The GM rolls a D20 to determine if the wish is granted with cruel loopholes, with little loopholes, or without loopholes.

Example: "I wish for a chocolate cake!"

Roll result 20: You get a delicious chocolate cake, and who eats it gets the benefits of a Heroes Feast spell.

Roll result 13-19: You get a delicious chocolate cake.

Roll result 8-12: You get a mundane chocolate cake.

Roll result 2-7: You get a mundane chocolate cake filled with raisins.

Roll result 1: You get a rotten chocolate cake in your face.

goto124
2016-04-04, 02:34 AM
Roll result 2-7: You get a mundane chocolate cake filled with raisins.

Roll result 1: You get a rotten chocolate cake in your face.

I think you got this backwards :smalltongue:

Also, a suggestion:

Roll result 1: You get a chocolate cake golem. Roll Initiative.

DontEatRawHagis
2016-04-04, 05:41 AM
During a fight with a couple of Fire Giants One player drank a shrinking potion instead of the Enlarging potion he thought he bought.

Then he took his Luck Blade and said "I wish I was a giant."

Then he found himself turned into a frost giant. He should have just said "I wish I was big."

Douche
2016-04-04, 06:53 AM
One time I wished for a piece of candy and my DM summoned 500,000 imps that wanted to kill me.

SirBellias
2016-04-04, 06:55 AM
If I ever granted a wish, I'd probably let them have whatever it was they wanted, provided they understand that if the plot dies/gets negated/finished then we'd probably start a new campaign in the aftermath of the wish. Then again, no one in my games have ever gotten past level six except once, because the games never last long enough...

Spartakus
2016-04-04, 07:27 AM
Not very cruel. I've learned that one gets the most fun out of wishes, if you limit your players time to think about them. So If they want something special the wording usually has room for a few flaws.
My players once pressed a devil into granting them four wishes. At the end they wished for a teleport from the tavern into their home in the same town (granted). An information about the villain (granted but turned out to be useless). 25,000 go (devil killed the next rich guy and dropped the body next to the group for looting) and for the devil to return to hell(granted, because anything else would have derailed the campaign)

Quertus
2016-04-04, 07:33 AM
Okay, so how would you react to this wish?

"I wish to be able to see as clearly in the dark as I currently see in the light". From a human with normal vision.

Meh. Not an unreasonable wish, and sounds IC. I'd probably go with some variant of this:


Weak (repeatable) source: Permanency + Darkvision, CL17

But what variant would depend on the source. I may choose to have the wish do anything from...

just replicating a widened Darkvision spell (without Permanency)... but this does not actually fulfill the terms of the wish

Replicate a (custom?) see in darkness spell with no range limit.

Replicate the above spell, but with Permanency (caster level varies by source).

"Sculpt Self" the above affect.

Gate in some random being who is compelled to do one of the above.

Magic item appears which grants user something like what they wished for. (outcome mostly dependant on whether there is a GP limit on wish per 3.0 rules)

Earl the Ever Burning Torch appears!

Bury wishers in a pile of Potions of Darkvision. Or perhaps a pile of potions, some of which are Darkvision.

Polymorph the wisher into something with unlimited range darkvision / natural ability to see in darkness (a demon, perhaps?)

PaO + PaO --> new form from above.

Wisher contracts "lycanthropy" to form (existing or custom) with desired ability.

Wisher grows second set of eyes... somewhere. New eyes can see in dark / have infravision / have ultravision / can perceive neutrino emissions / whatever. Side effects may include headaches (human visual cortex requires lots of processing power; doubling its workload is just asking for problems), disorientation (small penalties - look at all the pretty colors), confusion (what do all the pretty colors mean?), new super powers (gaze attack, being able to see odors, counting as a <race the new eyes belong to>, etc) and/or needing to moon your opponents to use your new eyes.

Whatever fits the source & I think the group will have fun with.

Segev
2016-04-04, 10:19 AM
In one game I ran, the party wound up using a ritual in a set of instruction books in a tower to summon an efreeti. It was specifically supposed to be used in case of an emergency, but the wizard responsible died before he could enact it. The efreeti was irritated at being summoned, but he mostly just wanted to grant the three wishes so he could go home, because frankly, messing around with you mortals is not worth his time.

The longer they took to come up with their wishes, the more likely he was to pervert them out of spite. He was actually relatively reasonable in telling them what the limits of his wish-granting power was, if they tried something too big. Because, again, them wasting time on guessing games meant he was stuck THERE longer, listening to them prattle.



In a fictional story I have never really managed to write out, the one genie in it is deliberately created by a powerful sorcerer. The genie was a street rat he grabbed off the street to forcibly convert and bind enormous power into. The bindings compel the genie to grant the wishes of his master, and use the boy's mind to filter and interpret the will of the master. Thus, he is compelled to grant them as he thinks his master means the wish to be granted. He can't deliberately twist it to screw over his master. At best, he can twist it a little bit to get something he wants out of it, if it won't interfere with what he thinks his master wanted. Otherwise, it's up to him how it gets granted, as long as the end result is what he thinks his master would want.

The fact that he is absolutely compelled to grant a wish if he believes one has been made means, however, that a wish worded particularly poorly can still backfire, if the genie honestly thinks that the "twisted" result is what his master must have meant. Note that this doesn't mean he's forced to be a "literal genie" (despite literally being a genie); if he understands the sarcasm to be sarcasm, he can (and in fact is compelled to) grant it, again, as he understands it to be meant.

If he woke up after hundreds of years to a modern-day American master who wished for "a million bucks," and he didn't know any better, he really would conjure up one million male deer. But if he had learned the slang - or even after it was explained to him - he would arrange for his master to get one million US dollars. He could do this by conjuring it out of thin air (and arranging, magically, for all the bills he created to be officially legitimate according to all records), by giving his master a lottery ticket that wins exactly that much, by causing his master to get a job which pays that much as a signing bonus, by getting his master a bonus from work worth that much, etc. etc.

But he couldn't steal it from a bank in a way that would make his master implicated in the theft, nor even (if he thought it would displease his master) cause the theft to happen at all. Because again: he's compelled to grant it as he understands is master wants it granted.

mikeejimbo
2016-04-04, 11:37 AM
I gave my players a wish-granting faerie the other day with a fairly limited but well-defined powerset: Invisibility, Insubstantiality, TK 12, Illusion, and possession of $6000.

The player who made use of it has a magic ring that lets him command spirits, so he got a couple more uses out of the faerie, but the spirit has a lot of leeway in the granting and thinks this guy is a lot of fun.

mujadaddy
2016-04-04, 12:11 PM
I wouldn't describe my adjudication of Wishes as cruel; let's use the word capricious instead.

My Efreeti are much more powerful than any Monster Manual entry; other than a few natural abilities related to their fiery nature, my Efreeti utilize WISH-based magic to interact with the world. That is, an Efreet has the option to utilize the game-bending power of "9th-level magic" for their own benefit. At will.

In practice, the Efreeti merely utilize Limited Wish for most of their effects. But when called, bound or in dire need, the full world-breaking Wish can be made.

An Efreet which roamed outside the Plane of Fire altering reality at will would be tracked down and imprisoned by other Wish-bearing Outsiders. They know this, and that mere use of a full Wish is like a metaphysical car alarm to those higher beings sensitive to magickal energies. That is, there is no such thing as a SECRET Wish.

So go ahead and Wish for the moon and stars, for time to run backward, the dead to rise or even for unlimited wishes.

Go ahead. See how far that gets you.

icefractal
2016-04-04, 01:30 PM
Okay, so how would you react to this wish?

"I wish to be able to see as clearly in the dark as I currently see in the light". From a human with normal vision.I was thinking about this, and realized there's an obvious source for this ability - all Devils have it. So what the Wish does is simple - it replaces your eyes with a pair grabbed from some Devil.

Benevolent or neutral source: The devil is some random Imp, it's unlikely to ever find out what happened or be much of a threat if it does. The only downside is your eyes look freaky and may have a residual evil aura.

Hostile source: It's a powerful devil, and it knows where its eyes went.

DontEatRawHagis
2016-04-04, 01:41 PM
I was thinking about this, and realized there's an obvious source for this ability - all Devils have it. So what the Wish does is simple - it replaces your eyes with a pair grabbed from some Devil.

Benevolent or neutral source: The devil is some random Imp, it's unlikely to ever find out what happened or be much of a threat if it does. The only downside is your eyes look freaky and may have a residual evil aura.

Hostile source: It's a powerful devil, and it knows where its eyes went.

Ah I too have seen that episode of Futurama. :smallwink:

Best part is one of the other players fighting/dealing with a Devil only to discover it has human eyes. Putting two and two together would be hilarious. Having said other player be charged with recovering the eyes, priceless.

Hunter Noventa
2016-04-04, 02:42 PM
We don't get many wishes at all in our campaigns, and we usually save them for when something goes really wrong. I think the most unusual effect we've ever asked for was using a Wish from a Luck Blade we were carrying around to undo the planar effects of traveling through Elysium that were turning half of our party into petitioners so they'd leave when we got to where we needed to go.

It wasn't twisted at all, but then our DM isn't a jerk like that.

Knaight
2016-04-05, 03:28 AM
I tend not to run the sorts of games where this comes up. With that said, it's a hugely circumstantial thing that depends mostly on the source of the wishes, and their relationship with the PCs. Take the example of the genie in a bottle - were I to run that, I'd probably go with a more traditional depiction of djinn (where them being in a bottle is a very big deal), where the creature granting the wish is almost certainly hostile to some extent (possibly just due to being in a bad mood from being stuck in a bottle). They would likely try to subvert wishes, and thus wishes from them probably wouldn't be very reliable. If, on the other hand, one attempted to extract a wish from them at the end of a process involving exacting revenge on whoever got them in the bottle and getting them out of the bottle, they would probably go for granting the wish in a very beneficial way.

If the source of the wish isn't another being, the fallback option for how to pick interpretations comes down to the setting and genre. This could involve either a setting-as-characters approach, where the setting has areas that are anthropomorphised enough to act like characters, such as in a game heavy on mythic elements, or involve looking more at genre and tone. If the campaign is some sort of depressing thing with themes about the futility of resisting change, adapting to a decaying world, or similar, the wish is probably not going to go well. If the idea of hubris as the beginning of downfall is a big one in the campaign, invoking a wish is also liable to end poorly. On the other hand, if it's a more optimistic game with themes involving people rising up to become better than they were, and the wish is in line with that, it's pretty likely that a generous interpretation will be used.

Quertus
2016-04-05, 11:34 AM
On an almost completely unrelated note...


So, first time I ever ran an extended campaign :smalleek: (as opposed to a one-shot or simple dungeon crawl). Very sandbox style (the phrase we coined back in the day to describe my style was, "Here's a world - Go!"). :smallcool:

Party consists of several players; for one, it is his first time playing a P&P RPG. He's run his character up... maybe 8 levels or so?... by this point. So a bit of gaming experience under his belt, but all in this one campaign.

Party is, among other things, involved in a "war" between archmages.

Party is... clearing out one of the "enemy" archmage's strongholds. :smallamused:

Party splits up. :smallconfused:

Least experienced player... winds up in (unlabeled) room of "things the archmage considered too dangerous to deal with". :smalleek:

Player is given description of the 4 items in the 4 corners of the room, and the 5th item in the middle of the room. Player starts asking questions (we've trained him well - so proud :smallbiggrin: ).

Player becomes fascinated by one item in particular - the perfectly black sphere, floating in the middle of the room. :smalleek:

You can see the horror on the rest of the players' faces. They all know exactly what it is. I struggle to maintain a calm demeanor as the player asks his questions, and I ask him to explain in detail any actions he takes. Passing his hand over and under the sphere, walking around it, arms raised up, trying to figure out what makes it float. Peering at it intently to try to see light reflected, texture, anything. Sniffing near it for odor. You get the idea. Everyone is on the edge of their seat during this lengthy examination of the item.

Finally, he decides that he doesn't understand it. So it deserves further investigation. He's going to take it with him. :smalleek:

In as calm a voice as I can manage, I ask him exactly how he plans to take it with him.

He thinks for a moment, then unclasps his cloak, and throws it over the sphere. He says the then grabs the 4 corners of the cloak, and hauls the sphere along behind him.

I explain that the sphere acts like an illusion would - the cloak simply passes through the sphere. However, as the cloak floats to the ground, there is a perfectly round hole in it, exactly the same size as the sphere.

Huh.

Player decides he needs to go get everybody else to look at the sphere. A collective sigh of relief fills the room. :smallsmile:

... but first, gotta loot the lamp that was in one of the corners.

Well, OK, that can't go poorly. :smallamused:

Of course he ends up rubbing the lamp. And thereby releases the Djinni.

In a theatrical voice, The Djinni begins saying, "You have released me from..."

And the character runs away.

Well, the Djinni wasn't expecting that. :smallconfused:

So, the Djinni looks around. He sees the Sphere of Annihilation floating there. Yoink! :smallbiggrin: He commands the sphere to follow him (floating halfway between its outstretched hand and the floor), and goes in search of his new "master".

Character finds the rest of the party, explains that, sorry, he let some sort of giant monster/daemon out of its prison...

... and, just then, the Djinni turns the corner, and it sees, not just the one character, but the party. And the party sees it. And the Sphere of Annihilation.

Now, I'm not gonna claim metagaming or anything here. Party has a long and glorious history of negotiation. Know how Charisma is normally the dump stat in D&D? Yeah, no. In this party, the lowest Charisma was a 15 (!). :smallcool: This was team, "we talk to everything, and make it our friend unless it's a goblin - those we kill on sight".

But, point is, neither side wants a conflict. Djinni doesn't want to try to maintain control of the Sphere against multiple foes; party doesn't want to face Djinni or the Sphere. So they talk.

After a bit of back and forth, the Djinni explains that, technically, it is indebted to them for releasing it, and required to provide them with wishes. Something which is powerful, but dangerous. And... something it has some control over the outcome of. IIRC, they negotiated it to one wish per member, and either more powerful or safer wishes (I forget which).

So, it's only tangentially related, as I don't actually remember the wishes involved, or how cruel I was - only that I gave the party the option between "weak and safe" or "powerful and cruel".

Kinda like how 3e does it. :smallwink:

Lvl 2 Expert
2016-04-05, 11:49 AM
For example, in my D&D game, demons, devils, and evil genies granting wishes are going to exploit boor loopholes far more often than an angel, a good genie, or a self-cast Wish spell.

I think that's a good summary of how I'd handle it. You can have fun with a literal or jackass genie. If a level 2 character stumbles across an old lamp with a nutty barely literate spirit inside and finds out he now has the power to create world then there should be alarm bells ringing in his head. If he goes ahead anyway I get to have fun. But if the party earned that same wish by freeing the king if the fair folk from his semi-eternal tree prison after five levels of fighting every evil forest creature in three different manuals then that king probably intends to really give them their wish. In those situations it's the spirit of the wish that counts, not the letter. Judges have to consider the spirit of the law when sentencing people, think about what the law was actually supposed to do rather than how it literally works. Wish granting entities should do the same.


During a fight with a couple of Fire Giants One player drank a shrinking potion instead of the Enlarging potion he thought he bought.

Then he took his Luck Blade and said "I wish I was a giant."

Then he found himself turned into a frost giant. He should have just said "I wish I was big."

Are you kidding me? You know how many racial hit die that adds to your build? Best wish ever. :smallbiggrin:

DigoDragon
2016-04-05, 12:28 PM
I've come to enjoy the time-stuttering variant for the "infinite wishes" problem: once you finish saying, "I wish I had infinite wishes," time skips back to you beginning that sentence again; repeat ad infinitum. Locked in a time loop because you got greedy.

That is the level of cruelty akin to when Batman trapped a time traveler in an infinite loop of getting nagged by his wife. XD


I've been fairly lucky that on those rare occasions players who managed to acquire a wish didn't try to abuse it. Most of the time they save it for resurrection (or to prevent a major party wipe). I remember one time a PC asked for something like a million gold pieces. He got it, but the calculated weight of it meant he only walked away with something like 8,500 coins after the building collapsed under twelve and half tons of cash and then rolled down the side of the hill into the river.

He... probably could have picked a better spot to make the wish.