Scent on level 1

[Ichneumon]

Hello,

I am a DM and have just bought ToB. I looked at a few things and I think the system is not to unbalancing, only I noticed something strange:

The stance Hunter's Sence, grants you scent as an ability and like most stances it is unlimited. How can scent on level 1 be balanced?

[brian c]

Hello,

I am a DM and have just bought ToB. I looked at a few things and I think the system is not to unbalancing, only I noticed something strange:

The stance Hunter's Sence, grants you scent as an ability and like most stances it is unlimited. How can scent on level 1 be balanced?

Well, you have to select that stance and be using it. You can stay in the stance for as long as you like, but you can't use any other stance (many of which would be more useful). Really, Scent is a nice ability but it's nothing gamebreaking.

[PlatinumJester]

Nice new pic by the way.
Anyway, scent is balanced because it is essentialy detect object but for people. Not to bad since some things don't have a scent.

[Douglas]

How can scent on level 1 be balanced?
A better question is "how would scent on level 1 be unbalancing?" As far as I can tell, it is far from a gamebreaking ability at any level.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I smell CHEESE!


.. no wait, that was just the scent of the week old half-chewed corpse I have not thrown out yet. :smalltongue:

[Jasdoif]

A better question is "how would scent on level 1 be unbalancing?" As far as I can tell, it is far from a gamebreaking ability at any level.Indeed. For most scents, you can tell that something is there, somewhere, within 60 feet, if it's upwind. You can spend a move action to figure out its general direction. If it's five feet away, you can tell its exact position.

Meanwhile the dwarf commoner with darkvision sees the creature's exact location from 60 feet away, regardless of wind conditions.


I can see scent being useful given the proper combination of circumstances, but unbalancing? That's a stretch.


I smell CHEESE!


.. no wait, that was just the scent of the week old half-chewed corpse I have not thrown out yet. :smalltongue:...the corpse smells like cheese? :smallconfused: Did you eat it with some of that cheese popcorn, by any chance? Or was it some sort of dairy golem?

[Person_Man]

I'm a huge fan of the Scent ability. And I have no problem with PC's having it at early levels. It just leads to more interesting roleplaying.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I can see scent being useful given the proper combination of circumstances, but unbalancing? That's a stretch.

It can be great to counter hidden or invisible surprises, but it only gives you a late warning at best.

It is good for tracking.

It isn't any more unbalancing than a dwarf having darkvision at 1st level and it is not exactly free.




...the corpse smells like cheese? :smallconfused: Did you eat it with some of that cheese popcorn, by any chance? Or was it some sort of dairy golem?


Stuffed with cheddar my friend.
Dairy Golems are only for breakfast. :smallwink:

[Fax Celestis]

Scent has been available as early as level 2 prior to this. Look at Dromites. They have scent--and a variety of other features--and only carry an LA +1 (arguably due to their psi-like abilities).

[Inyssius Tor]

Look at the shifter*, while you're at it. They can do that before they even get levels.



* Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 19-20

[Fax Celestis]

Look at the shifter*, while you're at it. They can do that before they even get levels.



* Eberron Campaign Setting, p. 19-20

Good point!

[Neek]

To balance the feature out, I've always allows Scent to be a skill, and those that possess the ability possess the skill as a class skill. Seems to balance it out, if there ever was an imbalance.

[Callix]

Scent isn't really that good. If players start to annoy people with scent, drop scent bombs. A bit of peppermint oil in the market square (Angua anyone?), or any running water, will break the trail. The ability to know invisible creatures are there is nice, but you can't pinpoint them until you take a move action while standing next to them. This gives an invisible attacker plenty of time to hit someone before they know what hit them.

[Aximili]

Scent isn't really that good. If players start to annoy people with scent, drop scent bombs. A bit of peppermint oil in the market square (Angua anyone?), or any running water, will break the trail. The ability to know invisible creatures are there is nice, but you can't pinpoint them until you take a move action while standing next to them. This gives an invisible attacker plenty of time to hit someone before they know what hit them.

I might be wrong, but don't you automaticaly know where they are if you are next to them?

[Callix]

The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source.

A bit ambiguous, but it seems you are right. Note that this does not negate the invisibility, instead telling you the precise square. All attacks have a 50% miis chance, and you still treat the attacker as invisible (+2 attack, no Dex bonus).

[TheOOB]

Scent isn't any better then darkvision, it's just that the PHB races have a crappy sense of smell. It's a useful ability to be sure, but then again so is +2d6 sneak attack which can also be gained through a stance at low levels.

[Fax Celestis]

I might be wrong, but don't you automaticaly know where they are if you are next to them?

Knowing what square they're in isn't the same thing. It means you know which square the invisible creature is in, not where he is. You still suffer miss chance, lose Dex to AC against them, etc.

[NullAshton]

Scent isn't really that good. If players start to annoy people with scent, drop scent bombs. A bit of peppermint oil in the market square (Angua anyone?), or any running water, will break the trail. The ability to know invisible creatures are there is nice, but you can't pinpoint them until you take a move action while standing next to them. This gives an invisible attacker plenty of time to hit someone before they know what hit them.

Actually, both of those are a myth. Water, even running water, actually makes it EASIER to track a scent trail, as Mythbusters has proven. The water makes the scent stronger. In addition, cinnamon rubbed all over a person won't throw off a trail either, even tossing cinnamon all over part of the trail. The cinnamon did throw the bloodhound off for a little while because of the strong scent, but not for long.

[Yuki Akuma]

Actually, both of those are a myth. Water, even running water, actually makes it EASIER to track a scent trail, as Mythbusters has proven. The water makes the scent stronger. In addition, cinnamon rubbed all over a person won't throw off a trail either, even tossing cinnamon all over part of the trail. The cinnamon did throw the bloodhound off for a little while because of the strong scent, but not for long.

He said peppermint oil. Which is stronger.

But, uh, yeah, really. Anything with a keen nose (and the ability to track using scent alone) would be able to pick up the trail again. You'd get maybe a minute's head start...

[Aximili]

Knowing what square they're in isn't the same thing. It means you know which square the invisible creature is in, not where he is. You still suffer miss chance, lose Dex to AC against them, etc.

Of course, no argument there. It only hit me as odd that he said you needed a move action to pinpoint a creature 5 feet from you using scent.

[Jasdoif]

Of course, no argument there. It only hit me as odd that he said you needed a move action to pinpoint a creature 5 feet from you using scent.Well....
The creature detects another creature’s presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If it moves within 5 feet of the scent’s source, the creature can pinpoint that source.Given the order of sentences...it could indeed mean that you need to take a move action even if the source is within 5 feet, but that you can pinpoint it when doing so if it is within 5 feet.

[Matthew]

Actually, both of those are a myth. Water, even running water, actually makes it EASIER to track a scent trail, as Mythbusters has proven. The water makes the scent stronger. In addition, cinnamon rubbed all over a person won't throw off a trail either, even tossing cinnamon all over part of the trail. The cinnamon did throw the bloodhound off for a little while because of the strong scent, but not for long.
Really, I would have thought it depended which direction you went? [i.e. up or down river] Did they do it both ways?