Cleric Charm Domain

[Discord]

Charm Domain:

Cleric’s of this domain most often follow Sune, known also as, Lady Firehair, the Lady of Lone, the Princess of Passion. Sune Firehair is a deity of passion and the delights of the senses. Her Clerics foster the beauty of all things in the world, fine arts, the best foods, the tastiest drinks, the softest clothes; they seek out the pleasures of all things in life.

Temples dedicated to Sune are common in human lands, and they frequently server as public baths, places of relaxation, and sometimes even brothels. When cities are not large enough for a temple, on a street corner there might consist of a small shrine, with a mirror, and a shelf lined with perfumes and various cosmetics, so those without the funds to purchase these items can still make themselves feel beautiful in their day to day life.

Charm Domain Spells:

1st Charm Person, Command

3rd Enthrall, Suggestion

5th Tongues, Leomund's Tiny Hut

7th Complusion, Dominate Beast

9th Dominate Person, Modify Memory

Divine Grace: At 1st level, you gain proficiency in the Persuasion skill and the Performance skill. Additionally, while you are wearing no armor, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier. You may use a shield and still gain this benefit. This AC does not stack with features named Unarmored Defense.

Glamour: At 1st level, you learn the friends cantrip. If you cast this cantrip, the target does not realize you used magic to influence its behavior when the spell ends. This feature can be used a number of times equal to your Wisdom modifier, and you regain all uses when you finish a long rest. After using this feature on a creature, it cannot be used on the same creature again for 24 hours.

Channel Divinity: Siren’s Song: As an action, you invoke the name of your deity and proceed to sing, creatures within 30 of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails it’s saving throw, it is charmed and incapacitated by you for 1 minute or until it takes damage. Creatures that step into range of your Siren’s Song must make a Wisdom saving throw or be affected by the ability. On each of your turns up to 1 minute, you may continue the Siren’s Song with a bonus action; this Siren’s Song also requires your concentration to maintain, you main increase the duration of Siren's Song for an additional minute for each Channel Divinity expended to maintain the song

Channel Divinity: Divine Beauty At 6nd level, When you cast a domain spell or an enchantment spell, you can spend a use of your Channel Divinity feature to impose a disadvantage on the first save creatures make against that spell. If the spell is a charm spell, the target or targets don't realize they were influenced by magic when the spell ends, instead they will try to rationalize and justify their own behavior as best they can, or make up excuses when they can't. In addition you have advantage on resisting charm and persuasion saving throws.

In addition you have advantage on resisting charm and persuasion saving throws.

Potent Spellcasting Starting at 8th level, you add your charisma modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.

Charm Vulnerability: At 17th level, you can use your action to activate an aura of charm that lasts for 1 minute or until you dismiss it using another action. You emit a captivating presence in a 60-foot radius. Your enemies in range have disadvantage on saving throws against any of your spells that charm or sleep.

Edit: I would like to change the 8th level ability to something else charm related, however I was just following the tradition that PHB and SCAG has laid out with either Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike.

Change Log:

Added Flavor text to the domain, Sune is currently the best fit for the direction that I want this domain to go forward with.

Adjusted Siren’s Song that you can only maintain the Siren’s Song for a maximum of 1 minute with your channel divinity, you may renew the duration of this song with another use of Channel Divinity.

Adjusted Domain spells, removed Bestow Curse and replaced with Leomund’s Tiny Hut, also replaced Geas with Dominate Person.

Adjusted Bonus Proficiency, players may now choose two from Persuasion, Performance and Deception.

Adjusted Divine’s Beauty Channel Divinity feature to state it takes your action to use.

Adjusted Casting Stat for this Cleric Domain, changed several instances in the domain from wisdom to charisma to fit the new casting stat.

Adjusted Siren’s Song: Specified Duration, Specified it requires your concentration and bonus action to keep using turn to turn, added that you can extend your song for an additional minute for each use of Channel Divinity.

Adjusted Divine Beauty, added that you now have advantage on saving throws to resist charm and persuasion attempts.

Adjusted: Charm Vulnerability: Added a clause at the end, creatures with charm immunity make saves with advantage.

Adjusted: Unarmored Defense / Bonus Proficiency to Divine Grace: You may benefit from a shield while unarmored, and you get the persuasion and performance skills, reworded

Adjusted: Glamorous Treachery name to just Glamour, reworded

Adjusted: Divine Beauty, reworded and reworked

Adjusted: Charm Vulnerability. Does not work against immune creatures, creatures who are resistant roll normally and those without resistance roll with disadvantage.

[Markoff Chainey]

Hi there!

I like what you did there! I think the domain's name could use some rework.. and there is a small problem, because it is going to be a subdomain of trickery, so how it is different from trickery? - Not mechanically, but how do those clerics "work" and approach their problems instead of a trickery domain cleric? This is important to define because it allows to assiciate it with gods (Sharess?) and allow for better suited abilities and spells..

From what you wrote, I see 2 directions where it could go to - one music related "Siren" based and the other one more pure seduction based. In the first, the deity could be the deity of all Sirens and Medusas or something and in the other it could range from a hippie god(dess) to Slaanesh, the creator of succubi..

Your channel divinity is basically the spell hypnotic pattern without a range and the bonus to keep it up.. maybe you should mention that it is a spell effect that is also effected by the later abilities that allow you to charm better. - The ability is a good one, I think. Also the other channel divinities are much in range of what they should do.

The lvl 8 has nothing to do with a charm, but I think is needed to keep up with dpr.

I am not 100% sure of the spell list, though, and this is because I am not entirely sure what a "charm" domain is supposed to be like. There are myriads of possibilities, so I let me make 2 suggestions...

Seduction based domain
you should lose the spells dominate beast and bestow curse and maybe tongues and could add alter self or disguise self, detect thoughts, compulsion or Leomund's tiny hut..

Siren / singing based
you could work with dissonate whispers, sleep, tashas hideous laughter, dream..

In any case, I would add a quasi immunity against charm effects and persuasion attempts with the first channel divinity. (Maybe advantage on those saves.)

I am not sure if there is place for it, but a skill proficiency in either persuasion or performance would match too.

my 2 cents, sorry for the missing formatting, wrote this on my phone..

[Final Hyena]

Charm Domain Spells:
5th Tongues, Bestow Curse
Maybe replace bestow curse with hypnotic Pattern?


Unarmored Defense: Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor, and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier.
Unarmored Defense is not really great as it relies on two stats of which neither is primary. I'm thinking 10+cha+wis might be worthwhile. Although the other level 1 features are pretty good so this might be a bit much. I'm just concerned that it's almost a dead feature as is.


Channel Divinity: Divine Beauty At 6nd level, you can use your channel divinity to tap into supernatural beauty that charms and dazzles those who witness it. Creatures within 30 feet of you have disadvantage against spells you cast from the enchantment domain for ten minutes, if the spell states, “When the spell ends, the creature knows it was charmed by you” or any variation of those words, the creature is unaware it was magically charmed by you.
What action is it to use this? If it's a standard action then ok, but a bonus/no action would be kinda broken.


Potent Spellcasting
An alternative could be that those who succeed against one of your spells that give the charmed condition are treated as if targeted by sacred flame. Not certain on balance.

[PoeticDwarf]

Charm Domain:

Charm Domain Spells:

1st Charm Person, Command

3rd Enthrall, Suggestion

5th Tongues, Bestow Curse

7th Complusion, Dominate Beast

9th Geas, Modify Memory

Unarmored Defense: Beginning at 1st level, while you are wearing no armor, and not wielding a shield, your AC equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier.

Bonus Proficiency: When you choose this domain at 1st level, you gain proficiency with the persuasion and deception skills.

Glamorous Treachery: Beginning at 1st level you learn the Friends cantrip, after the use of this cantrip the target does not realize you used magic to influence its behavior but they become indifferent to you after the cantrip ends. You may only use this feature a number of times equal to your wisdom modifier (minimum 1) per a long rest.

Channel Divinity: Siren’s Song: Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to start a siren’s song. As an action, you invoke the name of your deity and proceed to sing, creatures within 30 of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails it’s saving throw, it is charmed and incapacitated by you for 1 minute or until it takes damage. You can continue to sing your siren song as a bonus action on each of your turns, new creatures who step into the range of your song must make a Wisdom saving throw.

Channel Divinity: Divine Beauty At 6nd level, you can use your channel divinity to tap into supernatural beauty that charms and dazzles those who witness it. Creatures within 30 feet of you have disadvantage against spells you cast from the enchantment domain for ten minutes, if the spell states, “When the spell ends, the creature knows it was charmed by you” or any variation of those words, the creature is unaware it was magically charmed by you.

Potent Spellcasting Starting at 8th level, you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.

Charm Vulnerability: At 17th level, creatures within 60 feet of you that are immune to charming effects can now be charmed by your abilities and spells.

What do you guys think? Too weak? Too strong? Just right?

Edit: I would like to change the 8th level ability to something else charm related, however I was just following the tradition that PHB and SCAG has laid out with either Potent Spellcasting or Divine Strike.
This is actually pretty amazing.
I'd only say because this is too mad now, that you can add charisma modifier to cantrips on level 8 and that you may change your spellcasting ability to charisma. Or something like that, maybe 10+cha+wis as suggested ?

[Discord]

Hi there!

I like what you did there! I think the domain's name could use some rework.. and there is a small problem, because it is going to be a subdomain of trickery, so how it is different from trickery? - Not mechanically, but how do those clerics "work" and approach their problems instead of a trickery domain cleric? This is important to define because it allows to assiciate it with gods (Sharess?) and allow for better suited abilities and spells..

From what you wrote, I see 2 directions where it could go to - one music related "Siren" based and the other one more pure seduction based. In the first, the deity could be the deity of all Sirens and Medusas or something and in the other it could range from a hippie god(dess) to Slaanesh, the creator of succubi..

Your channel divinity is basically the spell hypnotic pattern without a range and the bonus to keep it up.. maybe you should mention that it is a spell effect that is also effected by the later abilities that allow you to charm better. - The ability is a good one, I think. Also the other channel divinities are much in range of what they should do.

The lvl 8 has nothing to do with a charm, but I think is needed to keep up with dpr.

I am not 100% sure of the spell list, though, and this is because I am not entirely sure what a "charm" domain is supposed to be like. There are myriads of possibilities, so I let me make 2 suggestions...

Seduction based domain
you should lose the spells dominate beast and bestow curse and maybe tongues and could add alter self or disguise self, detect thoughts, compulsion or Leomund's tiny hut..

Siren / singing based
you could work with dissonate whispers, sleep, tashas hideous laughter, dream..

In any case, I would add a quasi immunity against charm effects and persuasion attempts with the first channel divinity. (Maybe advantage on those saves.)

I am not sure if there is place for it, but a skill proficiency in either persuasion or performance would match too.

my 2 cents, sorry for the missing formatting, wrote this on my phone..

You mention in your post my channel divinity is basically the spell hypnotic pattern without a range and the bonus to keep it up.

However stated in the channel divinity it has a range of 30ft, and you can keep up the singing as a bonus action on each of your turns for 1 minute.

Now the problem with changing the charm domain spells, is to keep in line with other domains from the PHB and SCAG, at those levels you need to give spells of those levels to the Cleric. Alter Self is a 2nd level spell, Disguise Self is a 1st level spell, Detect Thoughts is a 2nd level spell, Compulsion is already on the spell list, Leomond's Tiny Hut could work as a 3rd level spell and I wouldn't mind switching out Bestow Curse for Leomond's Tiny Hut, as Cleric's of this domain believe in comfort and easy living above all else.

While some of those other spells fit, they unfortunately don't fit the tradition of giving spells of that spell level to spells of a level which you can now cast. I do however like the spell Tongue's even if it is a flavor spell entirely. The ability to be able to speak to anyone who walks into the church or your client's in a brothel is pretty important.


Now, you mention a quasi immunity against charm effects and persuasion attempts with the first channel divinity. Do you suggest switching out the Siren's song in place of a channel divinity that allows you to be immune to or have advantage on those saves?

At 1st level you already get proficiency in persuasion and deception. I felt like deception fit more than performance, although I suppose I will change it to, "When you choose this domain at 1st level, you can gain proficiency with the persuasion, deception or performance skills, you may choose two." That way it gives you a bit of option on how you want to play your charm domain cleric.


Maybe replace bestow curse with hypnotic Pattern?


Unarmored Defense is not really great as it relies on two stats of which neither is primary. I'm thinking 10+cha+wis might be worthwhile. Although the other level 1 features are pretty good so this might be a bit much. I'm just concerned that it's almost a dead feature as is.


What action is it to use this? If it's a standard action then ok, but a bonus/no action would be kinda broken.


An alternative could be that those who succeed against one of your spells that give the charmed condition are treated as if targeted by sacred flame. Not certain on balance.

I have currently replaced Bestow Curse with Leomond's Tiny Hut, per a suggestion before yours, also I feel it fits the Charm Domain a bit better.

The problem with your suggestion for the unarmored defense is it goes against other Unarmored Defense features that are laid out in the PHB /. Monk's unarmored defense is 10+dex+wis, Barbarians, 10+dex+con, Dragon Blooded Sorcerer's have 13+dex, etc. The point I'm trying to make here, is that it's usually 10+dex+(other modifier). Now, what I should possibly do is make some of the features of the domain go off your charisma modifier so you have more of a reason to put points into charisma other than just for skill checks.

I edited the Channel Divinity "Divine Beauty" to require your action for this, I forgot to place it in there.

I think I will keep Potent Spellcasting as is, until I can figure something out, or I might just keep it as is to follow other Cleric Domain's laid out in the PHB / SCAG.


This is actually pretty amazing.
I'd only say because this is too mad now, that you can add charisma modifier to cantrips on level 8 and that you may change your spellcasting ability to charisma. Or something like that, maybe 10+cha+wis as suggested ?

I kind of explain this above, tell me what you think about following tradition from the PHB as far as unarmored defense go. I felt like unarmored defense fit this domain, only because Cleric's of Charm / Beauty don't clothe themselves as thickly as others should. Their body is to be admired not covered up with armors and such.

[Final Hyena]

The existing unarmed defences all have 10+dex+other. That doesn't mean a knew one has to do the same. Many of your charm clerics features go outside of what is already in the PHB. The main point is simply, is it balanced?

Anyway I also like Enders idea of just switching your casting stat to charisma, it would purely be a side grade in terms of skills and enable an unarmoured defence that would be 10+dex+cha which wouldn't go against tradition.

[Markoff Chainey]

You mention in your post my channel divinity is basically the spell hypnotic pattern without a range and the bonus to keep it up...

...the problem with changing the charm domain spells, is to keep in line with other domains ...

... immunity against charm effects and persuasion attempts with the first channel divinity. Do you suggest switching out the Siren's song in place of a channel divinity that allows you to be immune to or have advantage on those saves?

... At 1st level you already get proficiency in persuasion and deception...



Hi!

1. This was just a statement why I think it totally fits the power level. HP has a range of 120 feet and a range of effect of 30 ft. while your ability has both - range and range of effect of 30 ft.

2. The spells were just suggestions that I made if you would want to switch out others and to show you what I meant with the "direction" of the domain, because as of now, I see it as a subdomain from trickery and wonder what makes the domain really destinct from it. The spell suggestions were merely a try to point in 2 different directions, not necessarily a "you should take this".

3. Yes, I meant together with the first level. It is a bit much, but really makes sense IMO. Otherwise a swashbuckler-rogue with expertise in persuasion may play around with the cleric of seduction... would not be fitting

4. See point 2. - that were more meant as a suggestion if you would want to bring the focus more to that point... IDK, the way you defined it now is fine and allows both options.


I totally second the other posters opinions of changing the casting stat to CHA... it breaks the normal clerics, but makes totally sense for that class.

[Discord]

The existing unarmed defenses all have 10+dex+other. That doesn't mean a knew one has to do the same. Many of your charm clerics features go outside of what is already in the PHB. The main point is simply, is it balanced?

Anyway I also like Enders idea of just switching your casting stat to charisma, it would purely be a side grade in terms of skills and enable an unarmored defense that would be 10+dex+cha which wouldn't go against tradition.

Hrm, for this domain I suppose it would make sense. I suppose I will change it for now, and will see what others think of this as well.


Hi!

1. This was just a statement why I think it totally fits the power level. HP has a range of 120 feet and a range of effect of 30 ft. while your ability has both - range and range of effect of 30 ft.

2. The spells were just suggestions that I made if you would want to switch out others and to show you what I meant with the "direction" of the domain, because as of now, I see it as a subdomain from trickery and wonder what makes the domain really distinct from it. The spell suggestions were merely a try to point in 2 different directions, not necessarily a "you should take this".

3. Yes, I meant together with the first level. It is a bit much, but really makes sense IMO. Otherwise a swashbuckler-rogue with expertise in persuasion may play around with the cleric of seduction... would not be fitting

4. See point 2. - that were more meant as a suggestion if you would want to bring the focus more to that point... IDK, the way you defined it now is fine and allows both options.


I totally second the other posters opinions of changing the casting stat to CHA... it breaks the normal clerics, but makes totally sense for that class.

To make it more in line with Hypnotic Pattern, and to give the ability some more cost, should I add to the description? I mean, it's bad that I have an ability like Hypnotic Pattern as a level 2 feature, when you cannot gain such a spell till level 5. I am thinking of changing Siren's Song more along the lines of,

"Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to start a siren’s song.

As an action, you invoke the name of your deity and proceed to sing, creatures within 30 of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails it’s saving throw, it is charmed and incapacitated by you for 1 minute or until it takes damage. Creatures that step into range of your Siren’s Song must make a Wisdom saving throw or be affected by the ability. On each of your turns up to 1 minute, you may continue the Siren’s Song with a bonus action, this Siren’s Song also requires your concentration to maintain, you main increase the duration of Siren's Song for an additional minute for each Channel Divinity used to maintain the song"

This way, I give more negatives to giving the use of such a Channel Divinity. So not only does it require a use of Channel Divinity, on top of concentration, but you also must use your bonus action on each turn to maintain the song.

I think instead of giving the "Advantage to Charm and Persuasion saving throws" at level 2, I will move it to the level 6 divinity feature. That way someone couldn't just dip two levels into this and get that ability.

Oh, I hope in none of my posts I came off as rude, I love the criticism and the suggestions to the spells. I appreciate all the effort everyone has put into this and look forward to further editing this to get it balanced as possible.

[Discord]

I've been working on this domain further as you can see from the change logs.

I've replaced Geas with Dominate person, and added a clause to the end of the 17th level feature.

I am considering removing the Unarmored Feature and putting it back to your casting stat goes off Wisdom. I thought about in place of the Unarmored Feature and Bonus Proficiency to change it to this.

Glamorous Treachery: Beginning at 1st level you learn the Friends cantrip, after the use of this cantrip the target does not realize you used magic to influence its behavior. After using this ability on a creature it cannot be used on the same creature again for 24 hours. Repeated attempts of using the friend spell works as per the spell description.

Bonus Proficiency: When you choose this domain at 1st level, you can gain proficiency with the persuasion, deception or performance skills, you may choose two. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of those skills. In addition you have advantage to resisting charm or persuasion saving throws.

What if I nerfed Glamorous Treachery a bit to make it so the ability can't be cheesed? So that it only works on a creature once per a long rest, and that the creatures attitude does not change after the spell is used? Repeated attempts of using the Friends spell works as normal? It could only be used on the same creature once per a long rest or something of the sort?

[Discord]

Another Update, reworded / reworked, Divine Grace, Glamour and Divine Beauty

Edit: Reworked the 17th level feature as well as over coming immunity was to powerful.

[Markoff Chainey]

Hi!

IMO, it is very good, flavorful and balanced.

a few things for your consideration:
- Divine Grace - stacking with shield is very good and fits the cleric with high AC, otherwise it would force him to use armor. You do not need to state that it does not stack, because it would not do anyways.
- Glamour: The 2 restrictions are good (number of WIS and 1/day/creature), but I think a tad too complicated. For the sake of simplicity, I would go with the second one: "After using this feature on a creature, it cannot be used on the same creature again for 24 hours", because it is the stronger one and both would apply only in cornercases.
- Channel Divinity Siren Song: When I read it correctly, you need to use another Channel Divinity to keep on singing... hmmm... I am not sure. I would prefer to limit the duration to a maximum of maybe WIS mod. x minutes but allow to keep it going... maybe it is too strong then, but I would try it because the picture in my mind of a high-lvl-group of those clerics leavining a "charmed ghost town" in their wake is awesome :)
- Channel Divinity Divine Beauty: only a typo - you doubled the sentence "In addition you have advantage on resisting charm and persuasion saving throws."
- Charm Vulnerability: I would rename it to something starting with "Aura" (... of endless grace? / ... captivating beauty?) and let the Aura do someting visible by itself - like on a bonus action cast sleep as a lvl 1 spell with an AoE effect within the aura (not powerful at that level anymore) or cast charm on everybody within the aura as an action without expending a spell slot. Otherwise the main ability is neat but IMO a little lacking as a lvl 17 ability and not too flavorful.
- Spell list: I do not get the 7th lvl dominate Beast spell.. Freedom of Movement, Hallucinatory Terrain, Polymorph would be of the same level and more matching the domain IMO. I see dominate beast as a nature thingy and Selune not a very nature oriented god.