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kjones
2007-06-26, 09:48 PM
The other night, when my friends and I were playing this game with 3 levels + Xykon's lair, we reached the Lair level. First, we ran into Redcloak in one direction, and he kicked our collective asses, since he was supported by about 10 goblins, giving him +20/+20. In the other direction, we found Xykon. Because he was supported by all the goblins under Redcloak, because we played a Goblin Necromancer, an Orc Summoner, and a Demon Roach King, along with about four Demon Roaches, along with a crapload of other goblins, undead, and fiends, we got the battle size up to 93. We only defeated Xykon by playing "I Forgot They Could Do That!" on his "assist" ability, making him a "mere" 19/19.

So, is this some kind of a record or something? We literally used up the rest of the battle deck playing monsters. If we hadn't had that particular "Screw This!" card, he would have been literally unbeatable... we counted up the maximum possible bonus, with assistance, Screw This! cards, etc., and it still wasn't enough to even have a chance. Is this supposed to be able to happen? Did we find a "bug"?

donkyhotay
2007-06-27, 02:19 AM
That's technically cheating. If you read the FAQ's it clarifies that battlesize only changes when monsters appear. Once the battlesize is set it doesn't change. So while you can play "I forgot they can do that" while the battlesize is being set to prevent it from becoming too large you can't play that card to remove monsters already placed. Yes battle-sizes can get really high depending on whether you play the rules as stated in the rulebook or use the modified as mentioned in the FAQ. The original rules it's possible to get 60+ battle sizes however the modified rules states that a character can only give support to one other unit. Personally I prefer playing that characters can recieve all the support they want EXCEPT when it comes to horde and then each supporting unit can only provide horde support to one unit with horde.

Joran
2007-06-27, 11:59 AM
So while you can play "I forgot they can do that" while the battlesize is being set to prevent it from becoming too large you can't play that card to remove monsters already placed.

The way I read it, he used the "I forgot they can do that" on the "Assist" ability, not the Horde ability. That is legal and makes Xykon beatable.

nerulean
2007-06-27, 01:36 PM
Except that you can't play Screw This cards on Xykon anyway, IIRC.

Arcade
2007-06-27, 02:17 PM
There's nothing saying you can't use Screw This cards on Xykon and it's a generally accepted strategy to use "I Forgot They Could Do That" to reduce his assist strength.

kjones
2007-06-27, 10:40 PM
The way I read it, he used the "I forgot they can do that" on the "Assist" ability, not the Horde ability. That is legal and makes Xykon beatable.

That's exactly what we did, and you certainly can use Screw This! cards on Xykon, unless the Symbol of Pain is still active... you just can't play anything that would remove Xykon from the game, or move him, or do anything other than fight him...

Still, missing the point. Battle size 93? Possible within rules? Record size?

Gralamin
2007-06-28, 01:14 AM
Keep this in mind (From the FAQ)

Q) How can battle sizes get so big sometimes?
A) We are changing this rule a bit to prevent battle sizes from getting extraordinarily large. With the new rule, any given Monster can only provide support for one monster at a time--the closest-to-the-top monster played into the room that it can Support. So if you have:

STARTING BATTLE SIZE 2
Player 1 plays a Forgettable Goblin.
Player 2 plays Goblin Necromancer. Forgettable Goblin now supports Goblin Necromancer. (Battle Size = 3)
Player 3 plays Redcloak. The Forgettable Goblin does NOT support Redcloak, but the Goblin Necromancer does (because it cannot support itself). Redcloak further supports the Goblin Necromancer. (Battle Size = 5)
Player 4 plays Demon Roach. Demon Roach supports Goblin Necromancer, not Redcloak, because Goblin Necromancer is closer to the top of the stack. (Battle Size = 6)
Player 5 plays Kobold King. Demon Roach does not support Kobold King, because it is already supporting the Goblin Necromancer.
Player 6 plays Kobold Roadkill. Kobold Roadkill supports Kobold King, because there is nothing stopping it from doing so. (Battle Size = 7)
Player 1 plays Ugly Ogre, and battle is set.

Under the old system, this would have been Battle Size 10 by the time it got the end of the sequence above (because the Forgettable Goblin would have supported both goblin hordes, and the Demon Roach would have supported all three hordes), and would have needed 3 more cards before it was set.

donkyhotay
2007-07-03, 03:03 PM
This is specified in the FAQ but battle-size is determined only when the monster is being played. Once it has been played that is it, so once xykons battle-stack is placed you can not use "I forgot they can do that" in order to reduce the stack. You can only use that card to prevent it from becoming big in the first place. As quoted from the FAQ:
"The Leader ablility says that the Battle Size is +1, meaning that the room gets one more monster played in it than would normally be played. 'If I Forgot They Could Do That' (IFTCDT) is played as the monster card was put into play, then that monster is no longer considered a Leader. IFTCDT cannot negate and ability for a monster after another monster has been played or after after all of the monsters have been played to a battle and the dice rolled."