What would you play with this rule?

[Spacehamster]

Let's say you are going to play a 4-5 person adventure with 2 players only and instead of DM pc's you are allowed to advance in two classes at the same time. You gain max hp each level so for example a 20 barbarian / 20 monk with 24 CON would get 12 + 7 each level up. And your spell slots progress at your best casting class's speed so a 20/20 half caster would still be a half caster.

So what would you play and why? And no MC xcpt the two classes you progress in. :)

I would probably do 20 Champion 20 Barbarian half Orc, not for optimization but for fun. :)

[Gastronomie]

Paladin / Sorcerer. Spam Quickened Spell like a boss.

Wizard (Necromancy) / Warlock (Fiend, Orcus or something). Use your recharging Warlock spell slots to fuel Animate Dead and create your own army of the dead.

[Axorfett12]

Oathbreaker Paladin / Undying Warlock. You will wade through armies of corpses like a macabre absolute. You will be the spectre of death that claims the lives of men. Revel in your power. None shall ever taste its equal.

[Cybren]

Champion/thief so I never have to worry about tracking multiple class resources

[RickAllison]

Moon Druid/Long Death Monk. Be the ultimate in unkillable as you can endlessly switch out your beast forms while negating the effectiveness of spells like Disintegrate which might sidestep the HP of the base form by electing not to go to zero HP.

Wizard/Warlock. Combine the short rest slots of the warlock with the massive versatility of the wizard. Rapidly build cities with Wall of Stone and assemble vast quantities of manufactured goods with Fabricate.

Artificer/Cleric. Use Infuse Scrolls with your cleric spells to generate no-cost revive spells. Become the best damn doctor in the world.

[Kane0]

I'd be a Feyknight (Ancients Paladin + Fey Warlock) for sure. Potent short rest casting plus invocations on a string half casting warrior base makes a formiddable all round caster/warrior. Cha as a high stat also means you could second in as party face with speech skills, and the flavor comes giftwrapped.

If you really want a power trip dip two levels into fighter/rogue at some point to net yourself second wind, action surge, cunning action and expertise. Leaves you with a brutal alpha strike (two high slot smites + action surge for another two, cunning action to charge in or bonus action hex for yet more damage).

[Spacehamster]

The lord of death Oathbreaker/Necromancer: Strong melee attacks and very strong minions + can control two stronger undeads. :)

[hymer]

Land druid//lore bard for my own amusement - access to all the spells I want. This is assuming I get spell slots from both classes.
Lore bard//ancients paladin for maximizing my party. Buffmaster, skill monkey, and mighty smiter when things look grim.

[Spacehamster]

Land druid//lore bard for my own amusement - access to all the spells I want. This is assuming I get spell slots from both classes.
Lore bard//ancients paladin for maximizing my party. Buffmaster, skill monkey, and mighty smiter when things look grim.

You get slots as a full caster not as two full casters but you get the spells known of two full caster so a wiz/sorc would get 2 wiz spells and 1 sorc per level up.

[hymer]

You get slots as a full caster not as two full casters but you get the spells known of two full caster so a wiz/sorc would get 2 wiz spells and 1 sorc per level up.

Okay. Well in that case the druid would probably be a moon druid/ancients paladin, with charisma as the highest stat closely followed by wisdom.

[Blue Lantern]

Bard/Sorcerer, you see how the sorcerer spell lists is so limited because of the possible metamagic abuse? forget that, add in all the bard perks.

[djreynolds]

You will wade through armies of corpses like a macabre absolute. You will be the spectre of death that claims the lives of men. Revel in your power. None shall ever taste its equal.

^^^^ This is why^^^^

Delusions of grandeur

[Cybren]

All your fancy spell combos will be proven useless in the face of my champion/thief that can add both its str AND dex mod to a running long jump

[TheTeaMustFlow]

All your fancy spell combos will be proven useless in the face of my champion/thief that can add both its str AND dex mod to a running long jump

NOO! Not the str and dex mod! We are DOOOOMED! DOOMED I TELLS YA!

...Though actually, Action Surge + Thief's Reflexes, plus Extra and Sneak attack and all those other goodies, is going to make for a very nasty nova. You could get in, what, 18 attacks on the first round?

Bladelock-Fighter could also be fairly nasty. Look at all those Lifedrinker'd/Hex'd attacks.

[Rhedyn]

Half-Elf Spy Red Dragon Sorcerer / Great Old One Tome Warlock

Get slots from both because they work completely differently and thus have to stack. Use the same casting stat for both spell list.

I would forgo eldritch blast and have the Warlock half support the sorcerer half. Dragon sorcerer does more than enough damage by itself.


Another contender is Moondruid/Assassin. Imagine an Earth Elemental just punching you from the ground for massive damage (all natural attacks are finessable)

[Spacehamster]

Oathbreaker / fiend blade lock
Imagine the nova, cast banishing smite, burn lvl 4 spell slot on normal smite + 1d8 from paladin lvl 11 and use hurl through hell and -5/+10 from GWM would be 2d6 + 6d8 + 15d10 + 25 in one attack! :O

[JellyPooga]

Rogue/Barbarian - Grapple-tastic, super tough, massive crits. Also, it's Conan :smallcool:

[Waffle_Iron]

This party will be two of these monsters?
Here's what I would do.

PC1 is a barbarian/rogue. Go wolf totem for the free friend boost, the ranger-like tracking, and the action economy ruining free trip. For the rogue, go thief. Having the versitility of the fast hands ability, and the mobility are wonderful for keeping enemies off guard. One of the problems with MCing barbarian is missing out on the high level abilities, and the problem with single class rogues are the dead levels between 14-16. You avoid both. You can rage for reduced damage, uncanny for reduced damage, have advantage when you want it, and grant advantage to your ally. It's unconventional, but I'd go with a rapier or scimitar and an open hand for grappling.

PC2, I'd go Land Druid/ Shadow Monk. One of the major problems with MCing a full faster with other non-casters is the loss of high level and plentiful low level spell slots. One of the issues with MCing monk is that you really need ki to make it work. This type of gestalt avoids both issues. Land Druid to maximize the casting potential, and shadow monk because with the rogue as the other party member, the two of you can now pull all kinds of shenanigans. You can skip encounters that you don't want to face, move around brilliantly, and with your barbarian wolf totem buddy, you can use stunning fist to lock down anything you can't out cast.

[TheFlyingCleric]

Wizard or Sorcerer is a good pick because:
- level 17 of either gets you Wish
- Wish gets you free Simulacrum
- Simulacrum gets you an extra PC, who has the same benefits you do (except spell slot regeneration)

That's a very significant boost to action economy; something that having two classes will not match.


For classes I would do a Rogue (thief) / Wizard (any)
You get both spellcasting and the ability to sneak around and hit things very hard in the back. Cunning action lets you move around while casting spells with your action. Expertise lets you be good at one skillset (sneakiness and investigation), while your buddy takes a different skillset.
Good Feats are Defensive Duelist (saves casting shield), Healer (in combo with Thief's improved cunning action), and resilient (CON).

In regards to feats:
- Do you get all the ASI's from both classes? (and from that, feats?)
- Do you get the hit dice from both classes? (important for both healer feat and short rests in general)

[Naanomi]

Since the spells lots would stack, warlock/caster would probably be the 'best'

But full HP wants barbarian, which doesn't play well with most casters. Maybe Totem Barb/Moon Druid for angry elemental action?

[Spacehamster]

Wizard or Sorcerer is a good pick because:
- level 17 of either gets you Wish
- Wish gets you free Simulacrum
- Simulacrum gets you an extra PC, who has the same benefits you do (except spell slot regeneration)

That's a very significant boost to action economy; something that having two classes will not match.


For classes I would do a Rogue (thief) / Wizard (any)
You get both spellcasting and the ability to sneak around and hit things very hard in the back. Cunning action lets you move around while casting spells with your action. Expertise lets you be good at one skillset (sneakiness and investigation), while your buddy takes a different skillset.
Good Feats are Defensive Duelist (saves casting shield), Healer (in combo with Thief's improved cunning action), and resilient (CON).

In regards to feats:
- Do you get all the ASI's from both classes? (and from that, feats?)
- Do you get the hit dice from both classes? (important for both healer feat and short rests in general)

Only five feats, but classes that grant extra feats would ofc get theirs so a rogue/fighter would end up with 8, get HD from your highest HD class

[Naanomi]

Thief (mastermind)/Bard (Lore) would make a great skill-monkey and unbeatable party face

[smcmike]

The S&B party:

Sorcerer/Paladin
And
Barbarian/Druid.

I think you want full casting for both characters. You also want both characters to be tanks, since you won't reliably be able to keep anyone out of melee. Also, both characters have some healing built in, since if one drops, the other needs to be able to get him up.

You can replace the Sorcerer with Warlock or Bard, though Sorc seems best for nova blasting. You want Devotion as an oath, because charm effects could ruin a two-player party's day.

You can replace Druid with Cleric or Bard. Personally I like the idea of an unkillable shape-shifting angry bear, but a bardbarian sounds fun too, and could help fill out your skills and also out-grapple anything.

[tieren]

Moon druid/ Oath of the ancients Paladin, just for the capstone awesomeness. I'm pretty sure you could have your own nature clerics at that point.

[JellyPooga]

Berserker Barbarian/Totem Barbarian - You can never have enough Barbarian :smallbiggrin:

[Naanomi]

How are skill slots handled? Take the best? Use existing multiclass rules (i.e. Bard/rogue... Four proficiencies or five?)

[Spacehamster]

How are skill slots handled? Take the best? Use existing multiclass rules (i.e. Bard/rogue... Four proficiencies or five?)

Both classes skills and saves.

[Naanomi]

Both classes skills and saves.
Both class' skills? So my rogue/bard would end up with 12, 14 if a half elf! A generic party member would have at least 6... Still could be a little tight for a 2 person party if no one intentionally seeks skills.

With that in mind my party would be:
Theif/bard
Druid/barbarian

I think they have all the bases covered

[smcmike]

Both class' skills? So my rogue/bard would end up with 12, 14 if a half elf! A generic party member would have at least 6... Still could be a little tight for a 2 person party if no one intentionally seeks skills.

With that in mind my party would be:
Theif/bard
Druid/barbarian

I think they have all the bases covered

On the other hand, both classes' saves mean rogue/bard is suboptimal: only one good save (before level 15)!

[Steampunkette]

Bard of Swords/Bladelock of Old.

Party Healer (always have at least 1 cure wounds per short rest from level 1 onward)
Damage Dealer (I like Swords!)
Party Buffer (Sing, Sing, Sing and make the party badass!)
Do Stuffer (Skills. Skills for days!)

Reading minds, kicking ass, taking names, teleporting around the battlefield.

Might even have time to chew bubblegum!

[Arkhios]

Vhuman, Ancients Paladin / Lore Bard. Dual Wielder for fun.

[Axorfett12]

^^^^ This is why^^^^

Delusions of grandeur

Well at this point you have full spell slots from both classes, the dreaded Animate Dead with warlock slots, buffing those undead because oathbreaker, and insane damage. You are also incredibly hard to kill with your healing and life sucking energies.

Let's also not forget that this is an Oathbreaker/Warlock. If anyone would have delusions of grandeur, it would be this guy.

To contribute to the discussion, I think a Bladesinger / Eldritch Knight combo would be interesting. Very high AC and full casting.

[Spacehamster]

Oathbreaker / assassin
In the end full smite on 2 attacks + banishing smite with a rapier you would end up 28d8 + 10d10 + 20d6 + 20 * 2 from assassin level 17 feature when you surprise somebody.

[Hudsonian]

My question is, do you level up in both classes every time you level or is you're level progression to 40 and you are getting ALL the EXP and start at level 2? (1/1).

I would do either a Champion Beserker for the insane amount of lasting capability/Crit hounding (Half Orc)

Or Champion Wizard. (The Champion can handle some MADness with his extra ASI's).

I really like the Champion as a base for another class because it has low resource management and high flexibility to meld with other classes. Give any other class full martial proficiency.

As a note, remember that Druids cannot wear metal... so that limits your multiclassing for AC.

Also, if your DM allows anything "Sage Advice" says, then go singing life cleric of lore and pick up Goodberry with your secrets, because "Disciple of Life" and "Blessed Healer" apply to each of the 10 good berries. So a 1st level casting of good berry heals others for a total of 40 HP and yourself for 30HP. At level 2 the result is 50/40 for a total of 90 hp. Comparing that to Heal (6th level) for an instantaneous 70HP to someone else. (And as a bard, you still get to wear armor.)

[Spacehamster]

My question is, do you level up in both classes every time you level or is you're level progression to 40 and you are getting ALL the EXP and start at level 2? (1/1).

I would do either a Champion Beserker for the insane amount of lasting capability/Crit hounding (Half Orc)

Or Champion Wizard. (The Champion can handle some MADness with his extra ASI's).

I really like the Champion as a base for another class because it has low resource management and high flexibility to meld with other classes. Give any other class full martial proficiency.

As a note, remember that Druids cannot wear metal... so that limits your multiclassing for AC.

Also, if your DM allows anything "Sage Advice" says, then go singing life cleric of lore and pick up Goodberry with your secrets, because "Disciple of Life" and "Blessed Healer" apply to each of the 10 good berries. So a 1st level casting of good berry heals others for a total of 40 HP and yourself for 30HP. At level 2 the result is 50/40 for a total of 90 hp. Comparing that to Heal (6th level) for an instantaneous 70HP to someone else. (And as a bard, you still get to wear armor.)

Progression is same as a normal PC just that egen you hit level 2 you turn level 2 in both classes. :)

[Naanomi]

Monk/Fighter? Pretty simple but boy that is a lot of attacks

[Spacehamster]

Moon Druid / Champion fighter and pick beasts with no multi attack and attack 4 times with powerful beast attacks. :)

[MaxWilson]

Let's say you are going to play a 4-5 person adventure with 2 players only and instead of DM pc's you are allowed to advance in two classes at the same time. You gain max hp each level so for example a 20 barbarian / 20 monk with 24 CON would get 12 + 7 each level up. And your spell slots progress at your best casting class's speed so a 20/20 half caster would still be a half caster.

So what would you play and why? And no MC xcpt the two classes you progress in. :)

I would probably do 20 Champion 20 Barbarian half Orc, not for optimization but for fun. :)

Moon Druid/Warlock.

Because I think that would be fun, though not "optimal".

[Theodoxus]

Other than max HPs, this is the game I'm currently running.

My players are: Necromancer//Oathbreaker; Shadow Monk//Assassin; Bearbarian//Hunter; Arcane Cleric//Lorebard and Ancient Paladin 6/Warlock 1//Wild Sorc

It's been a pretty interesting game so far. If you're up for the challenge, I recommend giving it a try.

[Mith]

Progression is same as a normal PC just that egen you hit level 2 you turn level 2 in both classes. :)

So the characters gain their abilities at half the cost of a four person party of the same classes? So 300 XP (go from level 1 to 2 for 1 PC) effectively levels 2 classes simultaneously?

[MaxWilson]

So the characters gain their abilities at half the cost of a four person party of the same classes? So 300 XP (go from level 1 to 2 for 1 PC) effectively levels 2 classes simultaneously?

It's a delicious hook, isn't it? Now just tie a string to it...

[uraniumrooster]

How do ASI/Feats work? Since they're class features, would the characters get two at level 4?

[Southpaw]

Eldritch Knight/Abj. Wizard. It may not have a super combo attached to it but it has no weaknesses and an answer for every problem.

[Spacehamster]

How do ASI/Feats work? Since they're class features, would the characters get two at level 4?

said that in an earlier comment, nope you get 5 feats/ASI´s in total xcpt extra feats thats a part of your class such as fighter lvl 6 and lvl 14 bonus feat and rogue 10.

[Ouranos]

Gestalt characters, that takes me back lol. I know 3.5 had this as a variant rule built into it, look it up if you're interested.

Anywho, I'd probably either go Paladin/Sorcerer for the sake of serious blasting power combined with strong defense, or Paladin/Cleric for crazy Divine prowess. Spell slots galore for either way for Smites, and cantrips for fighting at range when needed. Strong combos either way.

Pair it with a powerful skillmonkey combo like Monk/Rogue Rogue/Bard and the only thing you'll be short on is number of attacks per round.

[Sigreid]

I'd mix a totally non-magical martial with a caster for the full spectrum beat down experience. Champion Fighter/Wizard comes to mind. As does Monk/Druid.

[Mith]

Personally, I would go Barbarian/Monk if I have the rolls for it, but that's because I like the unarmoured defense. Correct me if I am wrong (I DM the games, and haven't gone over the classes recently), but the Monk gets Dex+Wis to AC, with Barb getting Con+Dex to AC, right? So if I have good roles, I can get a good AC without wearing armour. Plus grappling would be a lot of fun. Just an overall fun concept to play with.

I am aware that this isn't really cheese, but I personally rather play simpler classes.

[Spacehamster]

Personally, I would go Barbarian/Monk if I have the rolls for it, but that's because I like the unarmoured defense. Correct me if I am wrong (I DM the games, and haven't gone over the classes recently), but the Monk gets Dex+Wis to AC, with Barb getting Con+Dex to AC, right? So if I have good roles, I can get a good AC without wearing armour. Plus grappling would be a lot of fun. Just an overall fun concept to play with.

I am aware that this isn't really cheese, but I personally rather play simpler classes.

You choose either DEX + WIS or DEX + CON when you mc barb monk, they sadly don't stack.

[RickAllison]

You choose either DEX + WIS or DEX + CON when you mc barb monk, they sadly don't stack.

Well, technically by RAW you only get whichever came first. But yes, you would get either-or.

[Gtdead]

I'd keep it simple.
I'd pick my favorite caster and add Fighter or Paladin gestalt.

If I wanted to optimize to fill all the roles, I'd go for Paladin/Lore Bard.

It's good at
Tanking
Nova
Skill Monkery
Utility Casting
Control

I also like Bladesinger/Rogue.

[Mith]

You choose either DEX + WIS or DEX + CON when you mc barb monk, they sadly don't stack.

Damn. I would think they would stack because it becomes an ASI tax to keep your stats as high as possible (Str, Dex, Con, and Wis). You probably wouldn't ever take feats if they were an option.

[Gurifu]

Power-wise, Wizard 18/Fighter 2 is a good base chassis for "winning" 5e. This just lets us pick it up two levels faster.

Add Rogue 2 (cunning action), and do whatever you want with the rest of the levels. Taking fighter all the way to 20 wouldn't hurt, but I'd personally go Cleric 17 and get access to most of the spells in the game, then wizard 19 for one last ASI or Rogue 3 for a rogue archetype.

[Drackolus]

Undying light warlock/lore bard. SAD, a second spellcasting table, flawless action economy, insane spell knowledge... And while being very supporty! Definitely go tome: at-will magic is awesome.

[SharkForce]

Bard/Sorcerer, you see how the sorcerer spell lists is so limited because of the possible metamagic abuse? forget that, add in all the bard perks.

nah, you go warlock/sorcerer so you get stacking spell slots as well as increasing the available spells known. obviously not quite as much as a bard, but that's a huge boost in caster power.

(bard/warlock as the second character could work as well... if further multiclassing were possible, 3 sorcerer/17 warlock on one side would really be the ideal, but that isn't the rules presented to us).

anyways, i feel like you could probably do some fairly interesting things with moon druid/fighter. moon druid gives you access to some high damage attacks that are normally only usable once per melee. fighter levels let you use those attacks much more often :)

(depending on how the DM rules the synergy, moon druid/monk could work better i suppose).

[hymer]

Bard/Sorcerer, you see how the sorcerer spell lists is so limited because of the possible metamagic abuse? forget that, add in all the bard perks.

Have any combination of spell and metamagic in mind particularly?

[RickAllison]

nah, you go warlock/sorcerer so you get stacking spell slots as well as increasing the available spells known. obviously not quite as much as a bard, but that's a huge boost in caster power.

(bard/warlock as the second character could work as well... if further multiclassing were possible, 3 sorcerer/17 warlock on one side would really be the ideal, but that isn't the rules presented to us).

anyways, i feel like you could probably do some fairly interesting things with moon druid/fighter. moon druid gives you access to some high damage attacks that are normally only usable once per melee. fighter levels let you use those attacks much more often :)

(depending on how the DM rules the synergy, moon druid/monk could work better i suppose).

Hello, mammoth. Yes, I will take a Gore for 4d8+7 followed by 7 Stomp attacks at 4d10+7. Take Champion as your archetype so the odds of getting criticals to get a 27.75% chance of doing 8d10+7 on those for a whopping 51 average damage. That's a great way to disrupt a caster's concentration...

[Dimers]

A couple I'd consider ... life cleric / necromancer, for a Vampiric Touch that heals you faster than you can be hurt :smallsmile: An archfey warlock / Trickery favored soul sorc would be a flabbergastingly magical face, making the masses swoon all day every day. A swashbarian with high Dex and Con could walk around naked and take less damage from sword cuts than most plate armor wearers, not to mention dealing more damage. Warlock / barbarian actually works fine in terms of casting, because neither Armor of Agathys nor Fire Shield needs concentration.

The build I would most favor, though, for a game with two players? Purple Dragon Knight fighter / lore bard. It can get lots of nonmagical (as well as magical, obviously) healing and temp-hp sources, and would be great for turning minions into more serious and lasting threats. You could hire hirelings or bind outsiders or animate dead, then rev them up with the PDK/bard's various class abilities. Also functions as a face and a significant combat threat itself.

[RickAllison]

Another point for the fighter/Druid (and that also works for bard and wizard): Shapechange. Combine Champion's extended criticals with the Balor. Make one attack from in the air with his whip to deal good damage while also rendering him prone (due to fall damage), then make seven attacks that have a 27.75% chance to deal 18d8+8 damage (89 damage). Ultimate spellbreaker as no one can roll that high.

[Temperjoke]

Lore Bard and Thief Rogue.

All the skills.

[Arkhios]

Arcane Trickster/Eldritch Knight might be very interesting combination too.
Not to mention 8 x ASI.

[Spacehamster]

Champion / spelless hunter ranger would be pretty cool too

[SharkForce]

another good combination would be rogue/monk.

shadow monk with assassin rogue has always been a popular multiclass. it only gets better with gestalt.

personally though, i say forget about assassin... go arcane trickster. a ninja that can use enchantment and illusion spells sounds *way* more useful to me, personally.

(alternately, warlock is another popular show monk multiclass that could also work quite well)

[Daishain]

Necromancer Wizard/Oathbreaker Paladin. Create, buff, and command my own private army while still having enough personal power to be a nasty force to reckon with. To heck with only having one ally. Going to be rather MAD though, will have to avoid relying on feats

If able to coordinate with my partner, probably go Oathbreaker/Undying warlock & Necromancer/Death Cleric just because

[Naanomi]

Undying Light Tomelock/Gold Dragon Sorcerer
-charisma to fire damage twice
-a million spells lots
-Tomelock gives all rituals; versitile for small party

[Spacehamster]

Necromancer Wizard/Oathbreaker Paladin. Create, buff, and command my own private army while still having enough personal power to be a nasty force to reckon with. To heck with only having one ally. Going to be rather MAD though, will have to avoid relying on feats

Solution to the MAD of the build, mostly take no attack / no save spells from wizard and don´t increase INT above 13 or 14 since the undead bonus of necromancer is linked to
their proficiency bonus and not their INT. :)

[Rhynear]

Paladin/Warlock so that you could smite everything all day every day, and you could even use fire shield so that any time anything hits you it takes more damage than it does.