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View Full Version : the Spidaren [MitPII] (Now with a ridiculously complicated Airship!)



Poppatomus
2007-06-28, 09:26 AM
Yet another. Could use help statting out the air ship, as well as figuring out a block for "Spidaren as characters" as usual, any and all feedback appreciated.



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The Spidaren
"I'm not sure sir. One moment I thought I saw something flying above me and the next the guards were dead and The prisoners had gone." - Mizzark the violent, Grand Captain of the Shadow guard, shortly before his execution

"You can't really call yourself an adventurer til you've seen a halfling rogue arguing with a nearly naked, Seven foot tall Spider-***-pirate. Nose to, um, face, screaming at the top of his tiny lungs about exactly why it would, in fact, be unreasonable to donate all the jewels they just found to the poor benighted villagers. It has the unique ability to both make you laugh and give you nightmares all at the same time. - Neelious, Hammer of Sol "



Size/Type:Medium Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice:4d8 +4 (22 hp)
Initiative:+5
Speed:20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class:19 (+4 natural, +5 Dex), touch 15, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple:+4/+7
Attack: +13 melee (Fists of Spidaren, 1d10+5; 17-20/x2)
Full Attack: +13/+11 melee (Fists of Spidaren, 1d10+5; 17-20/x2)
Special Attacks: Drop-strike, Gossamer Obstacle
Special Qualities: Gossamer Armor, Fists of the Spidaren, Sublime Dexterity, Spirdaren bond, Skitter, Darkvision (60ft), Tremor Sense (30ft)
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +9, Will +6
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Skills: Climb +7, intidimate +1, Spot +4, Listen +6, Move Silently +7, Use Rope +7
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting, combat expertise, oversized two weapon fighting.
Environment: Any; Usually Outdoors
Organization: Raid (3-8), Flight (8-16), Fleet (80-740), Crusade (5-15 fleets)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Chaotic Good
Advancement: 4-20 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: +5

Description

Before you stands what seems a creature of nightmare. Seven feet tall and sheathed in lustrous black chiten, the humanoid figure would be striking even without the two enormous spiked clubs that writhe in its hands. Spiderlike in its movements, it turns and stares into you with eight dark red eyes, each without pupils, each unblinking.

Spidaren are tall, thin creatures equal parts arachnid and humanoid. Though possessing the traditional four appendeges and general aportionment of a humanoid, the Spiradren form is covered in a dark, almost metallic, exoskeleton. The creatures' faces are flat and spiderlike, complete with a small round mouth, slits in the place of a nose and eight haunting red eyes arranged in two verticle rows of four each. Though the creatures mandibles are removed just after birth, permitting the Spidaren to speak common with little difficulty, just below the Spidaren's neck is a web spinning organ still capable of limited functioning.

Spidaren movements are somewhat disconcerting to other humanoids, being insect like in their suddenness and precision. This carries over to conversation and habits. Spidaren tend to be precise in speaking, almost to the point of being terse, and frequently come across as either intense or angry in spite of their usually gregarious nature. In part this is a result of the effort it takes for a Spidaren to speak a language clearly, but it also stems from their natural preference for maximizing activity and minimizing blather.

Compounding their strangeness Spidaren also rarely wear clothing, other than functional items like belts or cold weather gear, and have little respect for the personal space or possession of others. A Spidaren will unthinkingly snatch interesting objects right from another's hands and their prefered range for conversation is intimate, to say the least. This is not an indication that Spidaren are disrespectful or destructive. Rahter, this behavior is an expression of a childish naivete towards the idea of privacy or possesion. Combined with their appearence, these features make Spidaren an especially alien creature from the perspective of most other humanoid races.

Background [free spirited, good hearted, Strange]

The Spidaren originated in the arcane experimentations of a powerful Elven wizard whose opposition to the Drow had become all-consuming. His life-goal was to bring into being a creature that could infiltrate Drow strongholds and drive them to annihilation or redemption. Their arachnid nature was chosen not only for its inherent benefits, but also to spite the Drow-goddess and those that worship her. At the cost of his own life, and his sanity, the Wizard to created the Spidaren.

The Spidaren are a race of Spiderlike humanoids that have been birthed to serve as near perfect warriors. They find nothing more enjoyable than the thrust and parry of combat and spend their entire lives activly seeking it out. Though originally created to oppose the drow, the Spidaren are not as consumed by this crusade as was their creator, and today serve as a more general force for good. The Drow are not quite as forgiving, however, and will usually attempt to kill Spidaren on sight.

The essence that forged the Spideran was drawn from captured Dryders that had resisted Lolth's will. As an after effect, the Spidaren are fiercly independent, going out of their way to confront the tyranny and oppression in all its forms. Their inherently freedom loving nature also leads them to view the possession of property as something less than a right. Almost piratical by nature, Spidaren take a very robin hood-esque view towards the possession of goods and treasure.

Spidaren Society [Adventures and an army in waiting]

All Spidaren are members of the Spidaren "Nation," with each adult Spidaren man and woman subject to being called upon to fight in the cause of good at any time. However, despite this overarching committment, individual loyalty is usually only to the immediate group with which they travel, called a flight; a group that is often as much family as friend. A spidaren will usually spend his whole life with his flight, manning the group's airship serving as a combatant.

Rarely a spidaren will seperate from a flight and adventure on their own. Due to their strangeness they often have difficulty integrating into other humanoid societies. Still, if treated well, a spidaren can become fully-functioning member of a non-spidaren group or society, though she may have trouble accomodating injustice or following laws to the letter. Similarly, the Spidaren are usually happy to travel with anyone of good alignment that's also useful in a fight, though most creatures find the life-style and travel accomodations of the Spidaren disconcerting.

At all levels, Spidaren society is egalitarian, lacking hierarchy or rank. The title "Captain" is often bestowed on a member of the ship by virtue of superior experience, martial prowess or wisdom, but it implies no obligation that other spidaren must follow the "captain's" commands. A spidaren that lays claim to that title is usually the most respected and esteemed member of a flight, which leads to their suggestions being followed more often than not, even if they are not strictly "orders."

On occasions of great threat to the Spidaren people, or to the world as a whole, the Spidaren nation may hold a council and commit the enitrety of the nation to a crusade. During a council all Spidaren are called to attend a general meeting. Though any can speak, usually the captains hold the floor as representatives of their respective flights. In order for a council to be officially called 5 different airships must meet and agree to serve as the foundation for the meeting. These conclaves are usually held out over open sea, far from observation or interference.

If a crusade is called most able spidaren will volunteer, eager for the chance to fight alongside their fellows. This is the only instance in Spidaren society were a sense of obligation holds, though there is no penalty for those that do not participate for whatever readon. Woe be the force that is the target of such a campaign. The Spidaren have been known to assemble as many as ten fleets within a matter of weeks, descending by the thousands upon evil empires and armies. None, not even the Spidaren, know the true extent of their landless empire, but it is clearly formidable.


Special Qualities:

Fists of the Spidaren(Ex) [special racial weapons]
Shortly after birth, the Spidaren's Mandibles are removed and placed in a special compartment on the ship to mature seperatly from the creature. By the time the Spidaren reaches adulthood the mandibles are ready to be used as weapons, having grown as long as 4 ft. and sprouted razor sharp bristles over the whole of their length.

In the hands of a Spidaren warrior, the Fists of the Spidaren are formidable weapons, and are treated as Keen +2 Bastard Swords that do both piercing and bludgeoning, rather than slashing, damage. The weapons also gain the benefits of weapon Finesse when wielded by a Spidaren. In the hands of a non-Spidaren the weapon is considered a mundane greatclub that does both piercing and bludgeoning damage. Further, if not held by a spidaren, the Fist will rot away to uselessness within 2d6 weeks. Fists are particularly resilient, having a hardness of 3 and gaining a bonus +10 to a roll to resist being sundered or shattered.

Additionally, Spidarens are able to control the fists as though a part of their own body. Spidarens gain a +4 bonus to all disarm checks made with the Fists. Spidarens may also make grapple checks as though unarmed when holdings these weapons, and gain a +2 bonus (max +4) to all grapple checks for each successful attack made with a fist that round. Grapple checks made while wielding the fists do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Gossamer Armor (Ex) [activatable AC/protection from crit strikes]
As a full round action the Spidaren may extrude special webbing to further enhance their natural armor and seal gaps in their exoskeletons. The Spidaren gains an additional +4 bonus to Natural armor and reduces the chance they will be critically struck by 50%. The Spidaren may choose to gain only an extra +1 to AC and instead increased their protection against critical strikes to 100%

This ability takes 3 additional rounds after the first to fully function. On the round of activation and the round that follows the Spidaren only gains the protection against critical hits, and the armor itself is vulnerable to fire damage as a web spell (any fire damage taken ends the effect). On the second round after activation the fire vulnerability remains but the armor bonus applies, and on the third round the fire vulnerability is removed.

The ability lasts for one hour. During that time the Spidaren takes a -1 to all dexterity based skill checks and attack rolls as well as having their movment speed reduced by 5ft. This ability can only be used in light or no armor.

Sublime Dexterity (Ex) [limited penalties for two weapon fighting]
The Spidaren is almost supernaturally dextrous. When wearing light or no armor and fighting with two weapons, a Spidaren adds its full Strength modifier to the damage of its off-hand weapon, and gains a +2 racial bonus on attack rolls with its main hand weapon.

As a result of this agility the Spidaren also gains combat expertise and Oversized Two Weapon fighting as bonus feats.



Spidaren Bond (Su) [limited racial telepathy]
Spidaren share a weak form of telepathy. By concentrating (DC10, swift action) Spidaren may communicate simple emotions and messages (Danger, Help, etc...) to any other spidaren within 1000ft. Additionally, if any Spidaren within 60ft. of another is not considered flat-footed none in range are, and if any Spidaren within the same range is not considered flanked, none are.

As a result of this ability, all spidaren are immediatly aware if a council or a crusade has been called.

Skitter (Ex)
Spidaren have masterful control over their spider like anatomy. Spidaren are always considered to be moving silently and gain a +10 racial bonus to all move silently, use rope and climb checks. They may also take ten with any of those abilities, even when not otherwise allowed. Additionally, Spidaren may make a special move silently check, against and opponents listen score, to avoid detection by tremor sense. This ability only functions in light or no armor.

Special Attacks:

Drop-strike(Ex) [pounce after a fall]
A Spidaren that falls 30 ft or more in a single round may end the round by making a full attack action against any creature in a square it threatens. These attacks gain a bonus as though the Spidaren had charged.

Descent by Climbing or from a rope also enables the use of this ability, so long as the entire movement takes place in one round.

Gossamer Obstacle (Sl)[in-built tanglefoot bag]
Another remnant of its more primative form, the Spidaren is able to project sticky strands at an opponent, having the effects of a tanglefoot bag. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#tanglefootBag) This ability can only be used once per day.

Combat

Spidaren in combat are highly group oriented. Though enthusiastic fighters they are careful and relativly conservative in terms of tactics due to the value they place on the lives of their companions. Usually they will use their gossamer obstacle ability to impede spell casters or ranged attackers while focusing on melee combatants. Spidaren never kill more opponents then they need to, and are willing to grant quarter to all but the most vile and untrustworthy of creatures.

Though usually spoiling for a fight, when on a mission with a purpose, rescuing prisoners or gathering supplies for instance, the Spidaren will often take advantage of the reaction to their ship (see below) to slip in and out without detection, but with loot in hand.

The Spidaren Airship (Now a construct, with manuevers. "my name will be famous in restaurants.")

Here's an attempt to stat the airship out as a construct. In this case I'm going with actually making it a construct, though it might end up just having the stats of one (the construction bit is a total guess, would love any help available on that.):

Size/Type: Colossal Construct
Hit Dice:64d10 + 80 (400 hp) Hull; 20d10 (150 hp) Sails.
Initiative:0
Speed:fly 100 ft. perfect (20 squares; see text)
Armor Class: 10 (+8 natural, -8 size), touch 2, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +30/-
Attack: -
Full Attack: -
Space/Reach: 75ft. by 20ft./0
Special Attacks: Ram
Special Qualities: Xenoaura, Extrude, Pilotable, Hardened Core, Magical Immunity, Construct traits, disconcerting interior.
Saves: Fort +19, Ref +19, Will +19
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 40
Environment: Outdoors
Organization: Solitary, Fleet (10-40), Crusade (5-15 fleets)
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: neutral

Description

[I]A glissenting gossamer cloud floats purposefully towards you on the breeze. Great sheets of translucent webbing flap lazily about a purplish oblong core on which tiny black shapes flit about. The intricate dance of the sails is almost hypnotic.

The spidaren airship is the center of Spidaren life, serving as both refuge and transport. Built of ichor and webbing, the ship does not so much sail through the air as ooze through it. From the exterior it looks like a shifting cloud of veils, with its seemingly haphazerdly placed sails whipping in every direction. Unlike most vessels, the Spidaren airship is infact a massive construct, granting it access to several special abilities as well as allowing it to remain airborne even in adverse conditions.

Special Attacks:

Ram (Ex):
Though lacking any inbuilt weapons, when threatened the ship may make a single slam attack per round against a target of large size or larger. The ship may do this of its own accord, but if so it attacks at a -30 penalty. two successful use rope checks can be made by creatures on board the airship to force the ship to attack (DC 25), in which case the penalty is reduced to -15. For each additional successful piloting check (see below) made, the attack roll gains a bonus +5.

If successful, this attack deals 15d10 bludgeoning damage to the victim and 5d10 bludgeoning damage to the airship. After a successful attack, any creature with a prepared action may make a DC 20 dexterity check to attempt to leap off the airship and unto the victim. In a manuever called a "lenchari" the ship may attempt to barrell roll as it strikes the target[see below]. If the barrell roll check is successful, the Leap DC is reduced to 5 and both the damage taken by the airship and the damage taken by the target is reduced by 5d6.

Special Qualities:

Xenoaura (Ex): It is really, really strangelooking.

Any creature within 400 yards that sees the Spidaren Airship must make a DC 18 will save or be fascinated for 10 rounds. Making this save leaves the creature immune for one day. Spidaren are immune to this effect, as is any creature that has successfully made this save 4 times in a row, or 8 times non-consecutivly. If there is more then one spidaren airship within range creatures do not make multiple checks. Instead, the DC is increased by one for every additional ship.


Extrude (Ex): [drop strands to allow egress and ingress]
As a free action the airship may extend or retract strands of non-adhesive webbing from a height of up to 800 ft. down to the ground. These strands require a DC 20 use rope check or a DC 25 climb check to scale for any non-spidarens. Spidarens may climb these ropes as though moving over unobstructed ground and do not require a check, even if carrying a heavy load (though that may effect their speed). Additionally, a spidaren may safely descend these ropes at 5 times their normal speed as a move equivalent action.

The strands retract and extrend at a rate of 200 ft. per round. The DC for holding on to the strands while being retracted is the same as for scaling the strand normally. Any creature that successfully holds on to the strand to the point of retraction finds itself inside the Spidaren ship. The strands use the airship's strength score if necessary (if they are caught on something for example). A character on board the ship may make a DC 15 use rope check to extrude or retract the strands.


Pilotable(Ex): [effective Movement requires the coordination of the crew]
Running the airship requires manipulating a complex pully-like systems of strands. Maintaining speed requires five successful DC 15 use rope checks every round, as many as 15 creatures may attempt to make checks to reach this number. These checks are a full round action. If less then 5 make the save then speed is reduced by 20 ft for each failure, to a minimum of 5 ft, that minimum is in the last direction the ship moved. For ever additional success the ship gains an additional 10 ft of movement (max 500 ft.). Non-Spidaren take a -5 penalty on these rolls. A person may also make a profession (sailing) check in place of use rope, also at a -5 penalty. These penalties cease to apply if a creature has been onboard more than one year.

Creatures may also, at their individual discretion, attempt to make more difficult checks to either increase the speed or decrease the chance of failure. Every five points added to the DC counts as 1/2 of an additional successful attempt. (So the ship could conievably be manned by two Spidaren rolling DC 30 checks, equivalent to 2.5 successes each.) In the case of disagreement as to direction among those making the checks, the direction with the higher number of successes takes precedence, while other roles count as failures.

The manuverability of the ship also depends on these rolls, with their average determining the ship's manueverability on a given turn according to the following chart:

{table]Average|Manueverability
35+| Perfect Maneuverability
30| Good Maneuverability
25| Average Maneuverability
20| Poor Maneuverability; Cannot ascend in the absence of strong winds
15| Clumsy Maneuverability; Cannot Ascend
Less than 15| The airship travels five feet in the direction it last traveled and desends five feet
Less then 10|the airship descends 20 ft. and does not move.
[/table]

All rolls, whether successes or failures count towards this chart.

If desired, the crew may make checks specifically to determine manueverability. The DC's are as listed above + 5. For this to be done, one Manueverability check must be made for every two piloting checks that are made in a given round. In this case, the piloting checks no longer count towards determining manueverability and the crew must accept the roll of the manueverability check, even if it would be worse than the average of the piloting roles. The piloting checks gain +3 bonuses when this is done.

Manuverability checks may also be made to acheive particular feats of arial acrobatics. The ship can Hover, as the feat, with two successful DC 10 checks on any round where it moves less then five feet. It may turn during this round, but requires an additional DC 15 manuverability check for every 90 degrees of the turn.

The Ship can make a barrell roll with a DC 30 manueverability check on any turn where it also moves at least 20 ft. Two checks made at the same difficulty allow it to perform a roller coster like loop de loop, which also provides a +10 circumstance bonus to the ship's AC on that round.

Two manuevers available to the Spidaren airship result from it's unique construction. The first is called a 'Triaxx' and requires three DC 30 manueverability checks. By specially manipulating the sails, the ship can shudder as it travels, wobbling 10 ft in either direction as it travels. This movement increases the airships AC by +10 and allows it to ignore the negative effects of strong winds on its movement. Additionally, due to the close manipulating of the sails, no effect can specifically target this vulnerable part of the ship on a turn where a Traxx manuever is successfully attempted.

The second is called an 'Anxe'. The DC on this manuever is 50 and also requires a successful barrell roll. An Anxe takes advantage of the ship's natural bouyancy. The ship temporarily defalates and drops 200 ft straight down, before reversing direction and ascending 300 ft. in a single round.

This ascent and descent is independent of its other move in the round, and can take place during a move action. Any medium or smaller creature in a square through which the ship passes during this manuever is immediatly forced to a random edge of the space occupied by the airship. Any large or larger creature or object may make a DC 30 Ref save to avoid this effect . If they fail this save, in addition to being displaced, the creature takes 10d6 bludgeoning damage that bypasses hardness. The Nadir of this manuever is the only time that the Airship may pass below the 50 ft threshold, allowing it to get as low as 20 ft.

Even without successes the ship can usually stay aloft, as long as it is above 50 ft. This owes to the presence of large, specially contructed airbladders built into the ships design itself, making it almost lighter than air. Maintaining these bladders takes most of the "attention" of the construct itself.

If the airship dips below 50 ft. or the sails are destroyed it loses the ability to stay aloft. Relaunching the ship requires hurricane force winds and a full crew of 10, at least one of which must be a spidaren. The base DC for this check is 25. Though its materials are otherwise treated to be equivalent to wood, the ship's sails are unadulterated webbing and are thus vulnerable to fire. If the sails are destroyed, the ship immediatly plummets towards the ground.






Hardened Core(Ex) [extra toughness for the core, and limited on the spot repair]
The hull of the airship has the consistancy of metal and is similarly resistant to the elements, gaining a hardness of 20. The sails do not gain the benefit of this ability, and are vulnerable to fire.

Because it is made of webbing, the spidaren may sacrafice a useage of Gossamer obstacle to repair the ship for a number of HP equal to a use rope check made by the Spidaren. If applied to the sails the HP increase is only 1/4 of this check, round down. This ability requires 2 full rounds to use. Even when applied to the core, the HP do not gain the benefit of hardness until one day has passed.

Disconcerting Interior (Ex): [it's full of spiders and made of webs]
The Hull has the same general characteristics and space as a keelboat. Within the Hull are usually 1d10 small and 1d4 medium monstrous spiders, in addition to innumerable normal spiders of various types, all of which the Spidaren treat as pets. Any non-spidaren creature within the ship is nauseated as though within a swarm. If the spidaren consider the creature to be hostile, it must make a DC 14 Fort save every round or take 2 points of damage from the bites of the mundane spiders. The presence of these creatures also enables the ship to repair itself, healing 5 points of damage every round.

There is a 5% chance that a hull will contain 1d4 spidaren egg sacs, Each of which belong to a paricular member (or pair of members) of the crew. These egg sacs take 10 months to hatch, have a hardness of 2 and 20 hp.

Movement within the hull requires constant climb or escape artist checks at DC 15 to avoid immobilization. Creatures with 19 or more dexterity do not need to make these checks. As a result of the constant reverberations of the strands that make up the ship, any creature with tremorsense within the structure knows the exact location and relative size/weight of all other creatures within the airship as though their tremorsense ranged covered the entire ship.

Vulnerability to Wind (Ex): [it is an airship, after all.]

The Airship is treated as a medium-size creature against wind-effects. It gets a -10 on it's saves against wind-effects as well. Crew members may make DC 25 manueverability checks in order to provide a +3 bonus on this save.


Immunity to Magic (Ex):
A Spidaren Airship is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

Any fire spells slow the airship (as the slow spell) for 1d6 rounds, with no saving throw, as well as increase the difficulty of all piloting checks made during that round by 1 per damage dice. Sonic and force spells have the opposite effect acting as a haste spell for 1d6 rounds and decreasing the DC of all checks by 1. The sails are affected normally by magical and non-magical fire.

A web spell cast on the construct provides 5 temporary HP per caster level. These HP last for 1 minute per caster level. If applied to the sails this only provides 2 HP per casterlevel.

Construction

A Spidaren airship is shaped from masses of webbing milked from monstrous and mundane spiders. The total amount of webbing used weights at least 10,000 pounds, and must be relativly fresh (no more then 1d10 days since it was first spun). Assembling the body requires an intimate familiarity with Spidaren Airships as well as a DC 20 craft (weaving) or a DC 40 use rope check.

CL 14th; Craft Construct, antimagic field, geas/quest, animate rope, Animate Object, Web, caster must be at least 14th level; Price -- gp; Cost -- gp + 5,400 XP.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-06-28, 10:34 AM
If it has an Intelligence Score, it should have feats. In this case, at least 2. Sublime Dexterity could be split up into several bonus feats.

Poppatomus
2007-06-28, 10:35 AM
I'm a bit confused on that crunch wise. Some of the Types explicitly say feats are granted, others don't. What's the general rule?

Lord Iames Osari
2007-06-28, 10:41 AM
I think you're still working with 3.0. In 3.5, all creature types get feats, at the same rate that PCs do, unless they lack an intelligence score.

Poppatomus
2007-06-28, 10:47 AM
Ah. I am working mostly from d20srd.com, and trying to piece things together as I go. Thanks kindly for the pointers.

Bisected8
2007-06-28, 11:01 AM
I'm not sure if I understood the poison ability, but isn't being able to deal an extra 2d10 non-lethal damage (or better) per blow a bit overpowered?

Poppatomus
2007-06-28, 11:04 AM
hmm.... Might well be. I'll drop it. Actually, i think I am going to drop that ability. I think the combat abilities it already gets from wielding the weapons are enough, the Poison seems superfluous at this point.

Poppatomus
2007-06-28, 07:21 PM
Made the changes and altered the backstory a bit.

Poppatomus
2007-06-28, 10:18 PM
shameless.

Poppatomus
2007-06-29, 10:43 AM
mid-day....

Bisected8
2007-06-29, 11:39 AM
I hearby vote;

MitP: Yes

Poppatomus
2007-06-29, 04:15 PM
Thanks Bisect, any other thoughts/improvements/critiques?

Bump for the dinner show.

Poppatomus
2007-06-29, 11:33 PM
Just when you thought it couldn't get any more complex:

The Spidaren: now with even more exposition!

SydneyLosstarot
2007-06-30, 03:55 AM
Liked this one.


MitP: Yes

Anxe
2007-06-30, 06:51 AM
Damn, that is a well thought out monster/race. It's as good as the Drow. Full on Mitp: Yes

Poppatomus
2007-06-30, 08:49 AM
Thanks for the votes, and thank you for the positive words Anxe (to be honest, it was driving me crazy yesterday that you seemed to have evaluated every monster but mine. The self-doubt you caused was palpable.)

Anxe
2007-06-30, 09:06 AM
Sorry. You know how people have to sleep when they get tired. I still only got 4 hours. Damn birds woke me up.

Poppatomus
2007-06-30, 03:11 PM
more slight adjustments bump. Still looking for a way to stat out the airship and advice on "Spidaren as characters"

Inyssius Tor
2007-06-30, 03:42 PM
I can't help you there, but I can vote:

MitP Vote: Yes!

Poppatomus
2007-06-30, 03:43 PM
Well, thank you regardless.

Poppatomus
2007-06-30, 10:12 PM
Late night bump

Poppatomus
2007-07-01, 06:34 AM
Alarm-went-off-sunday-morning-when-it-wasn't-even-supposed-to-be-on-bump.

Poppatomus
2007-07-01, 07:08 PM
Now with hastily written previews!

Bitzeralisis
2007-07-01, 07:30 PM
Ahh! Two quadruple posts and a double post! You shouldn't do that, you know? :smallmad:

Anyways... MitP Vote: Yes :smallsmile:

Can't believe a CR 6 monster has so many abilities. Please. It's CR 6. Really. :smallannoyed:

Of course, I like complexity. Only reason I voted yes. :smalltongue:

note that i am making excessive use of smilies in this post.

Poppatomus
2007-07-01, 08:17 PM
Ahh! Two quadruple posts and a double post! You shouldn't do that, you know? :smallmad:

Anyways... MitP Vote: Yes :smallsmile:

Can't believe a CR 6 monster has so many abilities. Please. It's CR 6. Really. :smallannoyed:

Of course, I like complexity. Only reason I voted yes. :smalltongue:

note that i am making excessive use of smilies in this post.

Complexity. It's what I do. :smallbiggrin:

Well complexity and bumping this thread (as you've noted). I know it's a bit...impolitic, but I really like these guys.

Thanks for the vote and feedback. Truth be told though, I am a bit worried about the CR. They do have a lot of abilities (and an airship), even if most of them are background or flavor, rather than "he looks at you. you die," type powers. Still, do you think a higher CR would be appropriate? if so, what?

EDIT: (was gonna do this as a seperate bump post but figured that was pushing it)Running it through VT's ringer i get between 5.5 and 6.5 as the CR, depending on how I count certain abilities.

deadfalcon
2007-07-02, 05:53 AM
I like it, but does the critical protection also apply to sneak attack ans sudden strike?

Mitp vote: yes

Poppatomus
2007-07-02, 06:13 AM
I could not decide. It seems to fit fluff wise, but that might be too overpowered a mechanic for this CR. What do you think would be appropriate?

Triaxx
2007-07-02, 07:11 AM
While it may only be a CR 6 monster, in groups, those numbers start to add up. Even a small raid is CR 18 total.

The airship definitely needs it's HP split, into 400 for the structure, and 150 for the sails, since completely destroying the sails, neutralizes the whole ship. It could almost do with being statted out as a construct, rather than a vehicle, given it's range of abilities. I'm assuming it's similar in idea to a a flying spider web?

Poppatomus
2007-07-02, 09:57 AM
While it may only be a CR 6 monster, in groups, those numbers start to add up. Even a small raid is CR 18 total.

The airship definitely needs it's HP split, into 400 for the structure, and 150 for the sails, since completely destroying the sails, neutralizes the whole ship. It could almost do with being statted out as a construct, rather than a vehicle, given it's range of abilities. I'm assuming it's similar in idea to a a flying spider web?

Effectivly yes. The inside is meant to have the general appearance and consistency of an egg sac, while the outer webbing is, well, just that. Maybe I will run it as a construct, especially since I can't seem to find a source on statting out a vehicle. Thanks for the advice.

I don't mind the CR being high in groups, that's kind of the intent actually, but I'd like the individual CR to be accurate just in case someone wants to try to run it as a character.

Poppatomus
2007-07-02, 12:51 PM
Here's an attempt to stat the airship out as a construct. In this case I'm going with actually making it a construct, though it might end up just having the stats of one (the construction bit is a total guess, would love any help available on that.):

Size/Type: Colossal Construct
Hit Dice:64d10 + 80 (400 hp) Hull; 20d10 (150 hp) Sails.
Initiative:0
Speed:fly 100 ft. perfect (20 squares; see text)
Armor Class: 10 (+8 natural, -8 size), touch 2, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +30/-
Attack: -
Full Attack: -
Space/Reach: 75ft. by 20ft./0
Special Attacks: Ram
Special Qualities: Xenoaura, Extrude, Pilotable, Hardened Core, Magical Immunity, Construct traits, disconcerting interior.
Saves: Fort +19, Ref +19, Will +19
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 40
Environment: Outdoors
Organization: Solitary, Fleet (10-40), Crusade (5-15 fleets)
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: neutral

Description

A glissenting gossamer cloud floats purposefully towards you on the breeze. Great sheets of translucent webbing flap lazily about a purplish oblong core on which tiny black shapes flit about. The intricate dance of the sails is almost hypnotic.

The spidaren airship is the center of Spidaren life, serving as both refuge and transport. Built of ichor and webbing, the ship does not so much sail through the air as ooze through it. From the exterior it looks like a shifting cloud of veils, with its seemingly haphazerdly placed sails whipping in every direction. Unlike most vessels, the Spidaren airship is infact a massive construct, granting it access to several special abilities as well as allowing it to remain airborne even in adverse conditions.

Special Attacks:

Ram (Ex):
Though lacking any inbuilt weapons, when threatened the ship may make a single slam attack per round against a target of large size or larger. The ship may do this of its own accord, but if so it attacks at a -30 penalty. two successful use rope checks can be made by creatures on board the airship to force the ship to attack (DC 25), in which case the penalty is reduced to -15. For each additional successful piloting check (see below) made, the attack roll gains a bonus +5.

If successful, this attack deals 15d10 bludgeoning damage to the victim and 5d10 bludgeoning damage to the airship. After a successful attack, any creature with a prepared action may make a DC 20 dexterity check to attempt to leap off the airship and unto the victim. In a manuever called a "lenchari" the ship may attempt to barrell roll as it strikes the target[see below]. If the barrell roll check is successful, the Leap DC is reduced to 5 and both the damage taken by the airship and the damage taken by the target is reduced by 5d6.

Special Qualities:

Xenoaura (Ex): It is really, really strangelooking.

Any creature within 400 yards that sees the Spidaren Airship must make a DC 18 will save or be fascinated for 10 rounds. Making this save leaves the creature immune for one day. Spidaren are immune to this effect, as is any creature that has successfully made this save 4 times in a row, or 8 times non-consecutivly. If there is more then one spidaren airship within range creatures do not make multiple checks. Instead, the DC is increased by one for every additional ship.


Extrude (Ex): [drop strands to allow egress and ingress]
As a free action the airship may extend or retract strands of non-adhesive webbing from a height of up to 800 ft. down to the ground. These strands require a DC 20 use rope check or a DC 25 climb check to scale for any non-spidarens. Spidarens may climb these ropes as though moving over unobstructed ground and do not require a check, even if carrying a heavy load (though that may effect their speed). Additionally, a spidaren may safely descend these ropes at 5 times their normal speed as a move equivalent action.

The strands retract and extrend at a rate of 200 ft. per round. The DC for holding on to the strands while being retracted is the same as for scaling the strand normally. Any creature that successfully holds on to the strand to the point of retraction finds itself inside the Spidaren ship. The strands use the airship's strength score if necessary (if they are caught on something for example). A character on board the ship may make a DC 15 use rope check to extrude or retract the strands.


Pilotable(Ex): [effective Movement requires the coordination of the crew]
Running the airship requires manipulating a complex pully-like systems of strands. Maintaining speed requires five successful DC 15 use rope checks every round, as many as 15 creatures may attempt to make checks to reach this number. These checks are a full round action. If less then 5 make the save then speed is reduced by 20 ft for each failure, to a minimum of 5 ft, that minimum is in the last direction the ship moved. For ever additional success the ship gains an additional 10 ft of movement (max 500 ft.). Non-Spidaren take a -5 penalty on these rolls. A person may also make a profession (sailing) check in place of use rope, also at a -5 penalty. These penalties cease to apply if a creature has been onboard more than one year.

Creatures may also, at their individual discretion, attempt to make more difficult checks to either increase the speed or decrease the chance of failure. Every five points added to the DC counts as 1/2 of an additional successful attempt. (So the ship could conievably be manned by two Spidaren rolling DC 30 checks, equivalent to 2.5 successes each.) In the case of disagreement as to direction among those making the checks, the direction with the higher number of successes takes precedence, while other roles count as failures.

The manuverability of the ship also depends on these rolls, with their average determining the ship's manueverability on a given turn according to the following chart:

{table]Average|Manueverability
35+| Perfect Maneuverability
30| Good Maneuverability
25| Average Maneuverability
20| Poor Maneuverability; Cannot ascend in the absence of strong winds
15| Clumsy Maneuverability; Cannot Ascend
Less than 15| The airship travels five feet in the direction it last traveled and desends five feet
Less then 10|the airship descends 20 ft. and does not move.
[/table]

All rolls, whether successes or failures count towards this chart.

If desired, the crew may make checks specifically to determine manueverability. The DC's are as listed above + 5. For this to be done, one Manueverability check must be made for every two piloting checks that are made in a given round. In this case, the piloting checks no longer count towards determining manueverability and the crew must accept the roll of the manueverability check, even if it would be worse than the average of the piloting roles. The piloting checks gain +3 bonuses when this is done.

Manuverability checks may also be made to acheive particular feats of arial acrobatics. The ship can Hover, as the feat, with two successful DC 10 checks on any round where it moves less then five feet. It may turn during this round, but requires an additional DC 15 manuverability check for every 90 degrees of the turn.

The Ship can make a barrell roll with a DC 30 manueverability check on any turn where it also moves at least 20 ft. Two checks made at the same difficulty allow it to perform a roller coster like loop de loop, which also provides a +10 circumstance bonus to the ship's AC on that round.

Two manuevers available to the Spidaren airship result from it's unique construction. The first is called a 'Triaxx' and requires three DC 30 manueverability checks. By specially manipulating the sails, the ship can shudder as it travels, wobbling 10 ft in either direction as it travels. This movement increases the airships AC by +10 and allows it to ignore the negative effects of strong winds on its movement. Additionally, due to the close manipulating of the sails, no effect can specifically target this vulnerable part of the ship on a turn where a Traxx manuever is successfully attempted.

The second is called an 'Anxe'. The DC on this manuever is 50 and also requires a successful barrell roll. An Anxe takes advantage of the ship's natural bouyancy. The ship temporarily defalates and drops 200 ft straight down, before reversing direction and ascending 300 ft. in a single round.

This ascent and descent is independent of its other move in the round, and can take place during a move action. Any medium or smaller creature in a square through which the ship passes during this manuever is immediatly forced to a random edge of the space occupied by the airship. Any large or larger creature or object may make a DC 30 Ref save to avoid this effect . If they fail this save, in addition to being displaced, the creature takes 10d6 bludgeoning damage that bypasses hardness. The Nadir of this manuever is the only time that the Airship may pass below the 50 ft threshold, allowing it to get as low as 20 ft.

Even without successes the ship can usually stay aloft, as long as it is above 50 ft. This owes to the presence of large, specially contructed airbladders built into the ships design itself, making it almost lighter than air. Maintaining these bladders takes most of the "attention" of the construct itself.

If the airship dips below 50 ft. or the sails are destroyed it loses the ability to stay aloft. Relaunching the ship requires hurricane force winds and a full crew of 10, at least one of which must be a spidaren. The base DC for this check is 25. Though its materials are otherwise treated to be equivalent to wood, the ship's sails are unadulterated webbing and are thus vulnerable to fire. If the sails are destroyed, the ship immediatly plummets towards the ground.






Hardened Core(Ex) [extra toughness for the core, and limited on the spot repair]
The hull of the airship has the consistancy of metal and is similarly resistant to the elements, gaining a hardness of 20. The sails do not gain the benefit of this ability, and are vulnerable to fire.

Because it is made of webbing, the spidaren may sacrafice a useage of Gossamer obstacle to repair the ship for a number of HP equal to a use rope check made by the Spidaren. If applied to the sails the HP increase is only 1/4 of this check, round down. This ability requires 2 full rounds to use. Even when applied to the core, the HP do not gain the benefit of hardness until one day has passed.

Disconcerting Interior (Ex): [it's full of spiders and made of webs]
The Hull has the same general characteristics and space as a keelboat. Within the Hull are usually 1d10 small and 1d4 medium monstrous spiders, in addition to innumerable normal spiders of various types, all of which the Spidaren treat as pets. Any non-spidaren creature within the ship is nauseated as though within a swarm. If the spidaren consider the creature to be hostile, it must make a DC 14 Fort save every round or take 2 points of damage from the bites of the mundane spiders. The presence of these creatures also enables the ship to repair itself, healing 5 points of damage every round.

There is a 5% chance that a hull will contain 1d4 spidaren egg sacs, Each of which belong to a paricular member (or pair of members) of the crew. These egg sacs take 10 months to hatch, have a hardness of 2 and 20 hp.

Movement within the hull requires constant climb or escape artist checks at DC 15 to avoid immobilization. Creatures with 19 or more dexterity do not need to make these checks. As a result of the constant reverberations of the strands that make up the ship, any creature with tremorsense within the structure knows the exact location and relative size/weight of all other creatures within the airship as though their tremorsense ranged covered the entire ship.

Vulnerability to Wind (Ex): [it is an airship, after all.]

The Airship is treated as a medium-size creature against wind-effects. It gets a -10 on it's saves against wind-effects as well. Crew members may make DC 25 manueverability checks in order to provide a +3 bonus on this save.


Immunity to Magic (Ex):
A Spidaren Airship is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

Any fire spells slow the airship (as the slow spell) for 1d6 rounds, with no saving throw, as well as increase the difficulty of all piloting checks made during that round by 1 per damage dice. Sonic and force spells have the opposite effect acting as a haste spell for 1d6 rounds and decreasing the DC of all checks by 1. The sails are affected normally by magical and non-magical fire.

A web spell cast on the construct provides 5 temporary HP per caster level. These HP last for 1 minute per caster level. If applied to the sails this only provides 2 HP per casterlevel.

Construction

A Spidaren airship is shaped from masses of webbing milked from monstrous and mundane spiders. The total amount of webbing used weights at least 10,000 pounds, and must be relativly fresh (no more then 1d10 days since it was first spun). Assembling the body requires an intimate familiarity with Spidaren Airships as well as a DC 20 craft (weaving) or a DC 40 use rope check.

CL 14th; Craft Construct, antimagic field, geas/quest, animate rope, Animate Object, Web, caster must be at least 14th level; Price -- gp; Cost -- gp + 5,400 XP.

Anxe
2007-07-02, 08:40 PM
Perfect flying ability? No way! Not unless what's keeping it afloat is completely magical. If it's a balloon then it should be treated as a smaller creature (Large or Huge I think) for wind and have Good maneuverability. If it's like a plane then wind doesn't affect it any special way, but it would have Clumsy for movement.

An even cooler idea is that the pilot check each turn decides what the maneuverability is for that turn.

Poppatomus
2007-07-02, 09:03 PM
Perfect flying ability? No way! Not unless what's keeping it afloat is completely magical. If it's a balloon then it should be treated as a smaller creature (Large or Huge I think) for wind and have Good maneuverability. If it's like a plane then wind doesn't affect it any special way, but it would have Clumsy for movement.

An even cooler idea is that the pilot check each turn decides what the maneuverability is for that turn.

THe last paragraph is what I'd like ideally, but I am not familiar enough with the flight system to work it out. Any ideas?

Anxe
2007-07-03, 12:20 AM
Every round have the pilot roll a Pilot (Airship) check or whatever skill it is. Then refer to this "Table."
Less than 5: The airship begins to plummet this turn. It falls 150 ft. the first round it falls and 300 ft. every subsequent round if control is not reestablished.
Less than 15: The airship continues doing the last maneuver that was done last turn or falls.
15: Clumsy Maneuverability
20: Poor Maneuverability
25: Average Maneuverability
30: Good Maneuverability
35: Perfect Maneuverability

I'd add some DCs for cool tricks like Barrel rolls and loop-de-loops, but I'm tired. The rules for aerial combat are on page 20 of the DMG if you want to make your own during the night.

Poppatomus
2007-07-03, 12:24 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. Suffering the same problem myself at the moment, i'll have the check the DMG tomorrow.

Triaxx
2007-07-03, 06:26 AM
Given the lighter than air nature of the ship, and it's bladders I'd say to allow it to stand still on a check of less than 15. And it should only descend at half speed on a 5 or less.

Poppatomus
2007-07-03, 10:24 AM
Every round have the pilot roll a Pilot (Airship) check or whatever skill it is. Then refer to this "Table."
Less than 5: The airship begins to plummet this turn. It falls 150 ft. the first round it falls and 300 ft. every subsequent round if control is not reestablished.
Less than 15: The airship continues doing the last maneuver that was done last turn or falls.
15: Clumsy Maneuverability
20: Poor Maneuverability
25: Average Maneuverability
30: Good Maneuverability
35: Perfect Maneuverability

I'd add some DCs for cool tricks like Barrel rolls and loop-de-loops, but I'm tired. The rules for aerial combat are on page 20 of the DMG if you want to make your own during the night.


Thanks Anxe and Triaxx. What do y'all think of this:

"The manuverability of the ship also depends on these rolls, with their average determining the ship's manueverability on a given turn according to the following chart:

{table]Average|Manueverability
35+| Perfect Maneuverability
30| Good Maneuverability
25| Average Maneuverability
20| Poor Maneuverability; Cannot ascend in the absence of strong winds
15| Clumsy Maneuverability; Cannot Ascend
Less than 15| The airship travels five feet in the direction it last traveled and desends five feet
Less then 10|the airship descends 20 ft. and does not move.
[/table]

All rolls, whether successes or failures count towards this chart.

If desired, the crew may make checks specifically to determine manueverability. The DC's are as listed above + 5. For this to be done, one Manueverability check must be made for every two piloting checks that are made in a given round. In this case, the piloting checks no longer count towards determining manueverability and the crew must accept the roll of the manueverability check, even if it would be worse than the average of the piloting roles. The piloting checks gain +3 bonuses when this is done.

Manuverability checks may also be made to acheive particular feats of arial acrobatics. The ship can Hover, as the feat, with two successful DC 10 checks on any round where it moves less then five feet. It may turn during this round, but requires an additional DC 15 manuverability check for every 90 degrees of the turn.

The Ship can make a barrell roll with a DC 30 manueverability check on any turn where it also moves at least 20 ft. Two checks made at the same difficulty allow it to perform a roller coster like loop de loop, which also provides a +10 circumstance bonus to the ship's AC on that round.

Two manuevers available to the Spidaren airship result from it's unique construction. The first is called a 'Triaxx' and requires three DC 30 manueverability checks. By specially manipulating the sails, the ship can shudder as it travels, wobbling 10 ft in either direction as it travels. This movement increases the airships AC by +10 and allows it to ignore the negative effects of strong winds on its movement. Additionally, due to the close manipulating of the sails, no effect can specifically target this vulnerable part of the ship on a turn where a Traxx manuever is successfully attempted.

The second is called an 'Anxe'. The DC on this manuever is 50 and also requires a successful barrell roll. An Anxe takes advantage of the ship's natural bouyancy. The ship temporarily defalates and drops 200 ft straight down, before reversing direction and ascending 300 ft. in a single round.

This ascent and descent is independent of its other move in the round, and can take place during a move action. Any medium or smaller creature in a square through which the ship passes during this manuever is immediatly forced to a random edge of the space occupied by the airship. Any large or larger creature or object may make a DC 30 Ref save to avoid this effect . If they fail this save, in addition to being displaced, the creature takes 10d6 bludgeoning damage that bypasses hardness. The Nadir of this manuever is the only time that the Airship may pass below the 50 ft threshold, allowing it to get as low as 20 ft."



good? bad? too complex? (also, side note, currently six of seven yes votes on the Spidaren as a race, and votes are still appreciated. [no voted to, at least it removes them from the precipice.])

Anxe
2007-07-03, 11:39 AM
And a DC 30 check to do a barrel roll or a loop-de-loop!

Poppatomus
2007-07-03, 11:43 AM
Of course. How could I be so Lax. Added. What do you think of it now?

SydneyLosstarot
2007-07-03, 04:18 PM
how about giving it the ability to fly upside-down?

something like an assault maneuver:

it approaches the enemy, turns upside-down, the crew shoot with all they have in store from the deck(they're spiders after all, so no trouble clinging to it), and then the ship turns back, protecting everyone from return fire.

could also drop more people with this)

Anxe
2007-07-03, 04:38 PM
Awesome. Now we can rest at ease.

Triaxx
2007-07-03, 06:28 PM
Perfect, I'd hate to have to fight one of those. I love it.

MitP:Yes

Poppatomus
2007-07-04, 12:44 PM
Thank you Tri.

Question related to the airship. Since the airship is a construct, it is immune to anything that requires a fort save (like the one for wind) but is affected by Fort-save requiring events that impact objects (like Wind). What does it roll in that case, and should I put something into the air ships description dealing with that specfically?

Anxe
2007-07-04, 01:06 PM
Vulnerability to Wind (Ex): The Airship is treated as a medium-size creature against wind-effects. It gets a -10 on it's saves against wind-effects as well.

There we go.

Poppatomus
2007-07-04, 01:15 PM
Vulnerability to Wind (Ex): The Airship is treated as a medium-size creature against wind-effects. It gets a -10 on it's saves against wind-effects as well.

There we go.

Which is along the lines of what I was thinking (was going to allow manueverability checks at DC 20+5 for every catagory above strong to give a bonus to the roll). My question though is, as a construct, what does it roll against the save? Does it roll at all? Does it sub in its strength score?

Anxe
2007-07-04, 02:33 PM
It rolls a Fortitude save? What else would it be?

Triaxx
2007-07-04, 03:44 PM
It would just roll a Fort save, even if the rules would normally say it's immune. It's part of the specific nature of the airship.

Matthew
2007-07-06, 09:45 PM
Too many Skill Points, I think, and you haven't factored in the Skitter Racial Adjustments.

Climb 4(7)
Intimidate 2(1)
Spot 2(4)
Listen 4(6)
Sneak 2(7)
Use Rope 2(7)

Poppatomus
2007-07-06, 11:44 PM
Nuts. i thought I did skill points right as well (save for the racial adjustments, which I did not realize were supposed to be included in the stat block) I was under the impression it was (2 x 4) + 8 = 16.

I think I made a mistake not in the ranks, but in which skills are Dex and which skills are strength. I will make the necessary corrections shortly. Thanks again.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-07-12, 11:40 AM
Sublime Dexterity (Ex) [limited penalties for two weapon fighting]
The Spidaren is almost supernaturally dextrous. When wearing light or no armor, the Spidaren gains the benefits of combat expertise as a bonus feat. Medium weapons held in the off hand are considered light weapons for the purposes of dual wielding and the Spidaren never takes a penalty to its main hand attacks for wielding a medium or small weapon in its off-hand. If the Spidaren only wields Fists of the Spidaren, it takes no penalties for wielding two weapons.

Ok, here's what I mean about breaking this into feats. The whole "medium weapon" thing is 3.0 vintage anyway, they're one-handed weapons now, and you can use the Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Oversized_Two-weapon_Fighting,CAd) feat for that. So, give these guys Combat Expertise and Oversized TWF as bonus feats.

Here're my suggestions for a revised set of abilities:


Replace the non-existent feat "Combat Finesse" with Weapon Finesse, which you clearly meant to put.
Replace Imp Init with TWF.
Add Combat Expertise and Oversized TWF as bonus feats.
Reword the Sublime Dexterity to read thusly:
Sublime Dexterity (Ex): When fighting with two weapons, a Spidaren adds its full Strength modifier to the damage of its off-hand weapon, and gains a +2 racial bonus on attack rolls with its main hand weapon.
That changes the Attack and Full Attack entries:
Attack: +13 melee (Fists of Spidaren, 1d10+5; 17-20/x2)
Full Attack: +13/+11 melee (Fists of Spidaren, 1d10+5; 17-20/x2)

Poppatomus
2007-07-12, 11:48 AM
Ok, here's what I mean about breaking this into feats. The whole "medium weapon" thing is 3.0 vintage anyway, they're one-handed weapons now, and you can use the Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Oversized_Two-weapon_Fighting,CAd) feat for that. So, give these guys Combat Expertise and Oversized TWF as bonus feats.

This ability is confusingly worded, too. Right after the thing with the light weapons, you say "the Spidaren never takes a penalty to its main hand attacks for wielding a medium or small weapon in its off-hand". If that's the case, then why bother going through the whole thing with "Medium weapons count as light" in the first place? It would much simpler to say, "Spidaren take no penalties when fighting with two weapons".

So, here's my suggestion for a revised set of abilities:


Replace the non-existent feat "Combat Finesse" with Weapon Finesse, which you clearly meant to put.
Replace Imp Init with TWF.
Add Combat Expertise and Oversized TWF as bonus feats.
Reword the Sublime Dexterity to read thusly:
Sublime Dexterity (Ex): When fighting with two weapons, a Spidaren adds its full Strength modifier to the damage of its off-hand weapon, and gains a +2 racial bonus on attack rolls with its main hand weapon.
That changes the Attack and Full Attack entries:
Attack: +13 melee (Fists of Spidaren, 1d10+5; 17-20/x2)
Full Attack: +13/+11 melee (Fists of Spidaren, 1d10+5; 17-20/x2)


Thanks for the feedback. Changes made. that combat finesse bit is particularly embarassing, thanks for catching that.

Poppatomus
2007-07-12, 11:50 AM
Also, as a side note, don't worry about the air ship. I wanted to stat it out, but it strikes me as way to complex and way to flawed to actually be usable. I think that its probably enough, in terms of the monsters themselves being useable, for the airship to be mentioned, and then let individual DMs implement it as they see fit.

Triaxx
2007-07-12, 04:56 PM
Nah, I like it. It's only over powered if you're not fighting it with something equally ridiculously complicated.

I'm thinking for airships we need a new size category, something like ginourmous.

Poppatomus
2007-07-12, 05:19 PM
Nah, I like it. It's only over powered if you're not fighting it with something equally ridiculously complicated.

I'm thinking for airships we need a new size category, something like ginourmous.

I'll vote for the new size catagory.

As for the first bit, I'm not sure the air ship stands on its own as a monster, and I feel it would be unfair for it to get voted in along with the Spidaren just by virtue of the fact that it is in their entry, especially since some of the votes were made before it was even really fleshed out, let alone finalized. I think its best to leave it up to Lord and the other higher ups whether they want to include it in the MitP final product or not, since it isn;t necessary to the Spidaren for that particular airship to be in the game.

Triaxx
2007-07-13, 05:32 AM
I don't really think it has been. It's like creating Gnomes, and giving an example of their mechanical prowess. You don't do it until you're finished with the race. After that it's just fluff. I mean, this would be great for another transport method, dropping Spidaren Troops behind the lines, or evacuating a city in the event of an attack.

I'm certain the Spidaren are getting in on their own merits. I wouldn't worry about it.

DragonTounge
2007-07-16, 12:45 PM
Cool. MitP Vote: Yes!!!

elliott20
2007-07-16, 01:13 PM
I kept on seeing the title as "spiderman" for some reason.

Poppatomus
2007-07-16, 03:33 PM
I kept on seeing the title as "spiderman" for some reason.

Well, ren is Chinese for "man" ( really gender neutral like "person", but usually translated as man into english). Perhaps that is the reason?

elliott20
2007-07-16, 03:53 PM
I wasn't really think about that but hey... how about that? :smallsmile:

I think my head just went dyslexic for a second. but hehe... spider-ren... that just sounds so wierd.

Matthew
2007-07-29, 08:44 AM
You know, I forgot to vote for this. Good job it qualified anyway, but just to compound that:

MitP: Yes

Anyway, I just realised that I think that these would be great in a Spelljammer Campaign Setting. Given the relative lack of support for Spelljammer, it would be pretty cool to create a segment of fluff relating to that possibility.

Also, on a more editorial note, I would recommend you remove the word 'crusade' from the text. Although in common usage the word is fine (as witnessed by the 'Crusader' in Tome of Battle), it is in my opinion too precise a word to use in such a general sense. Holy War or a Race Specific word would be more suitable. Just a thought.

Triaxx
2007-07-29, 11:58 AM
The word is fine, after all, a certain lawyer who shall not be named is on a crusade against video games.

Matthew
2007-07-29, 12:47 PM
Sure, and the word can be used to have that meaning, as noted above, but in that sense it is really a metaphor, because that person is not actually on a Crusade; he is making a determined and organised effort to change something and is describing it as a 'Crusade'. It is not, in actual fact, a Crusade, though common usage (and dictionary definition) will allow for that meaning.

So, I wouldn't be inclined to use the word. Just my opinion, of course.

Cryopyre
2007-07-29, 05:13 PM
MiTP Vote: Yes


Or does it still matter, oh hell, still. This is a cool guy you've got there.