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View Full Version : OOTS #361 - The Discussion Thread



The Giant
2006-10-17, 03:03 AM
New comic is up. Sorry again for the slight delay, which turned out to be more like 3 hours.

chionophile
2006-10-17, 03:05 AM
aww, man, he impaled the chief's head on his sword. that's just mean.

Hmm... There's no way that Roy is going to fall for this, is there? I mean, Elan looks drunk not evil, while Nale has that sh*t-eating grin on his face. I guess that's why Nale took care of the only person with any real power who would listen to Roy.

JepDeiod
2006-10-17, 03:08 AM
hahahahhahahaha

Thog lift with knees, not back.

That was so funny.

Thank you for the awesome comic (s) Rich.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2006-10-17, 03:08 AM
Oldest evil trick in the book?
And he's making it work!?

Nale truely is an evil mastermind...

tmacdevitt
2006-10-17, 03:09 AM
Thank you Giant! i knew staying up late would be worth it!

For the first time ever I figured out Haley's speech!

Holy crap its Nale

Stop listening to yourself for once and look where I'm shooting.

yeah I know others translated it too, but I was happy that I could do it.

Adeptus
2006-10-17, 03:09 AM
Heh :D

Nale's plan is just as silly and convoluted as one could have expected. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this will develop.

Also, I hope somebody translates Haley soon!

InaVegt
2006-10-17, 03:09 AM
Genius Rich, just Genius

Briarthorn
2006-10-17, 03:10 AM
Egad, the fiend!

Great strip, I'm on the edge of my seat!

Grim Greyscale
2006-10-17, 03:11 AM
As much as this was totally expected, still amazing the effort Nale went to. A pentagram and everything!

BlueHelmet
2006-10-17, 03:12 AM
very nice. this definitely was worth the wait.

FuziSlipers
2006-10-17, 03:13 AM
Ack... double ack!!!

Poooor Elan. He looks soooo out of it!

Xedwin
2006-10-17, 03:13 AM
Cooooool ;D

But is that beard on Elan sticked on backwards?

Damastes
2006-10-17, 03:13 AM
Sorry old friend... :(
It is so sadly.

Nale was always ma favorite charcter. Go Nale!!!

I haven't checked forum for a long time but I'm sure I wasn't alone with thought that he will change with Elan.

One more time.

GO NALE!!!!

Lurk
2006-10-17, 03:13 AM
Holy stars when it rains it pours.

Wow...

Just, wow. This should be fun to watch them sort out!

ravage
2006-10-17, 03:13 AM
nice! so that's why nale killed so many people...

Silverblaze
2006-10-17, 03:14 AM
Thog never made tenderfoot *snicker* Great Comic, Mr. B ;D Good thing Thog isn't bright enough to realise when he is being used ;)

Martok
2006-10-17, 03:14 AM
Oh my. Well no one can accuse Nale of not being thorough.....

Oh yeah: "Thog helped!" Heh. :P

Leo_Forestclaw
2006-10-17, 03:14 AM
Nice! I mean in a "we knew he was gonna do that" sort of way, but I'm really keen on seeing how this is going to play out.

And no worries about the late post, Rich - I'm just happy you're back on the 3 x a week cycle!

Bring on more double strips!! ;-)

Destro_Yersul
2006-10-17, 03:16 AM
The plot thickens...

I can't wait to see how this turns out.

CockroachTeaParty
2006-10-17, 03:16 AM
Oh geez! Elan is dooooomed!

Viktor
2006-10-17, 03:19 AM
Interesting... will his evil masterplan succeed?
Let's stay tuned...

TheDRaconicLord
2006-10-17, 03:21 AM
Ya know...for me the best part of all this comic is how the "Rookie" sudenly became a Comando.

"He killed the chief! Get your crossbows out! Ventilate him!!"

Wow, what an evolution. (Oh and Thog rocks ;D)

rwald
2006-10-17, 03:21 AM
The last panel made me think of five words: "Sense Motive check of DOOM!" Because if the new guy doesn't figure it out (and we can assume that the rest of the police won't), doom is what will ensue.

Illsbane
2006-10-17, 03:23 AM
Okay, be honest, people: who didn't see this coming a mile away? ^^; And go, go, rookie! You're doing great up to this point ...

TreesOfDeath
2006-10-17, 03:23 AM
Http://www.itsatrap.net

Bloodred
2006-10-17, 03:23 AM
mElovEthoG

But, other then Thog the rest of the comic was weak really. But, I am eager to see how it will all pan out just the same.

Good comic Rich.

Heads_or_Tails
2006-10-17, 03:24 AM
Well, despite everyone seeing something like this coming, the way this is turning out is VERY pleasing.

The new guy does NOT look happy.

Smoke_Rulz
2006-10-17, 03:24 AM
.... Oh wow, this one is NUTS. Of course I must wonder how good Nale will be able to impersonate his own brother. Surely Roy and V will be able to see through him. :o

Plactus
2006-10-17, 03:25 AM
Haley:
"Holy crap! It's Nale!"
"Stop listening to yourself speak for once and LOOK where I'm SHOOTING!"

Chancelikely
2006-10-17, 03:26 AM
Dun dun DUHNNNN!!!!!!

Lydia
2006-10-17, 03:27 AM
I liked it too.

Hayley (who hasn't spoken properly for over 100 strips now >:( ) says:

'Holy crap! It's Nale!'

and then:

'Stop listening to yourself speak for once and LOOK where I'm SHOOTING!'

Edit: Simu posted! Curse this metal body, I wasn't fast enough!

MoneyMike
2006-10-17, 03:28 AM
Good translating, I did it the old fashion way a few minutes ago thinking I would be the first and realized I had to register :(

Rift_Wolf
2006-10-17, 03:29 AM
Good comic (I thought Nale was planning something a little more elaborate than that, however, but then I watch very convoluted programs like Farscape).
One thing bothers me though; what's written in blood on the wall? It looks like DIE PISS. Not sure if a words being cut off or not...

Lydia
2006-10-17, 03:30 AM
I think its DIE PIGS!, where pigs is slang for police.

AggieDan
2006-10-17, 03:30 AM
Ack! I had Haley's text translated as well, but I forgot my password and had to have it resent to me.

Drat.

Tenderfoot? Damn, talk about taking me back.

MoneyMike
2006-10-17, 03:31 AM
It's "DIE PIGS."

At least, that's what I thought.

BlueHelmet
2006-10-17, 03:32 AM
It's "DIE PIGS."

At least, that's what I thought.

yep, that's what I read in it as well.

Matuse
2006-10-17, 03:33 AM
It is indeed "DIE PIGS", which is very Charles Mansonish of Nale.

"Thog lift with legs. Not back."...Thog rules.

Rift_Wolf
2006-10-17, 03:34 AM
yep, that's what I read in it as well.

Reading it again, yes, that makes more sense than what I first saw. I must be used to looking for profanity.

swampsheep
2006-10-17, 03:36 AM
Besides the obvious explanation that he is an evil mastermind, and hence makes complex and evil plans, I'm not sure I quite grasp the purpose of this plan. If he just wanted Elan dead, he could have killed him - no problem. So there must be some other reason.

I can only think of two. One of the reasons is that Nale wants to be part of the OoTS. However, that can't last long because, as pointed out be other people, he probably can't "play the part" as Elan.

The other reason is that high-level adventurers too easily can be resurrected, so in order to make sure they stay dead they have to be criminals and dead - in that case, no Lawful authority will resurrect them. Perhaps the police does something to the body to ensure their permanent dead.

Dhavaer
2006-10-17, 03:36 AM
I thought of DIE PIGS when I first saw it, but when I looked closer it seemed to be DIE PIES.

Lloyd
2006-10-17, 03:38 AM
Ooh... very nice, Giant. I saw it coming, but it was so artfully done on Nale's part... But... I think

*SPOILER*
Haley is SO going to see right through this. I mean, she's so completely in love with Elan, right? So hopefully she'd be able to tell the real deal from the imposter, wouldn't she? The only problem is how she'll communicate it to the group... and how she'll explain just how she knows...
*END SPOILER*

But, I do know one thing as the absolute, 100% honest to goodness truth: The next few strips are going to be very, very interesting.

kierthos
2006-10-17, 03:40 AM
You know this is going to end with Haley getting her normal speech back, because there is no way that she's going to NOT see through Nale's plan.

Mind you, a simple detect evil would handle all of this. Too bad the OOTS doesn't really have good trust issues with paladins these days.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2006-10-17, 03:48 AM
Nale must die.

Man, if I ever have a LBEG in my campaign, I'm going to model him after Nale. The OotS is going to have SWEET VENGEANCE as soon as everybody figures out what happens.

SPOILER! Oh! Haley can't tell anybody that it's Nale when she figures it out!

rellyjean
2006-10-17, 03:52 AM
*headdesk*

I did the cryptogram and ran to the What Haley Said thread all excited like LOOKIE! I"M GONNA BE FIRST! WOW! ... I didn't even think to check here. Idiot? Yes.

With that said: AWESOME. STRIP. So very, very worth the wait.

The artwork of that last panel rocks. The candles, the skeleton throne, and something about the way the dead bodies are hanging - it's just a great layout. GO RICH!

Also fabulous: the chief's-head-shish-ka-bob, Nale's putdown of Julia, the rookie's bitter "I have," and the insane lengths that Nale went to for this. AND the fact that Thog has not figured out that Nale is totally screwing him over.

And as a new member of me love thog I of course have to squee about thog helping. ;)

5tephen
2006-10-17, 03:53 AM
Cool!

OmegaDonut
2006-10-17, 03:58 AM
Where did the chief's body go?

Ronald_saveloy
2006-10-17, 04:01 AM
I guess, that Thog knows the movie "The Gamers":

Lift with the knees, Rogar, not with the back!

(Or at least Thogs player knows the film!)

Krytha
2006-10-17, 04:24 AM
Good lawd! Well, Nale seems to have a plan, but won't Roy notice that Nale is not pissing him off 24/7?

Eldhrin
2006-10-17, 04:38 AM
thog lift with knees not back

I love it! What a dastardly plan. Let all know Nale's fiendishness.

Lord_Kimboat
2006-10-17, 04:42 AM
I offer my apologies to all those that I told Nale's evil plan was not to swap identities with Elan. My bad and you gp bets are in the mail.

However, I think that Nale has missed that Thog can be a very weak link in this. Remember how he told the OotS about the scroll Nale was carrying. I think this plan could backfire in a similar way (granted probably in a few frames so we can have some fun with Nale trying to portray Elan). Any of you betters care to double or nothing?

battleburn
2006-10-17, 04:43 AM
I like how Thog is supporting Elan, so he wont fall.

JD
2006-10-17, 04:44 AM
Well, it came from a mile away, but still...

I honestly thought it said Diet Pepsi on the walls :-[

Couldn't make sense of it either

"SNEAK ATTACK!"

Max_Sinister
2006-10-17, 04:47 AM
Damn! That was evil.

(Not the comic of course, which is great.)

It should be obvious who's the evil one... but who'll check details at such a shocking scene?

Spoiler:
I wonder whether rookie becomes new chief.

melekashiro
2006-10-17, 05:05 AM
With the low sense motivation of the group, only Haley is able to se throw Nale's bluff and performance.

Aidan305
2006-10-17, 05:09 AM
...

Wow.


I knew we'd eventually see Nale posing as Elan but...

...That is just disturbing.

Made all the more so by Thog not realising he's being set up.

"Thog helped"

Ronald_saveloy
2006-10-17, 05:47 AM
@melekashiro

Nice memorial picture!

Karkadinn
2006-10-17, 05:49 AM
Sigh, far too predictable. And what about a simple Detect Evil, eh?
Personally I hope the orc eventually realizes Nale screwed him over and kills the irritating bugger. As a villain Nale's just about outlived his interesting...ness.

Delgarde
2006-10-17, 05:49 AM
However, I think that Nale has missed that Thog can be a very weak link in this.

Probably... we all remember what happened last time someone put Thog under a Zone of Truth spell, for example.

TMTree
2006-10-17, 05:50 AM
Eek! That last panel's the stuff of nightmares (for stick figures, anyway). Loved Thog's "ooo! head-on-a-stick!". Poor Thog, though...

Nale's really indulged his melodramatic streak here- maybe everybody will be too shocked to notice the disguise?

Albion
2006-10-17, 05:54 AM
I like how Thog is supporting Elan, so he wont fall.

No he isn't! He's proudly holding up those skulls he's so finely wrapped up for all to see.

I must say Thog looks funny when his fangs suddenly don't show. "oooo, head-on-a-stick!"

Fale
2006-10-17, 06:11 AM
Another great comic.

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out already, but there's a very minor mistake. The second in command(?) right leg isn't fully connected in two panels.

Retales
2006-10-17, 06:20 AM
thog lift with knees, not back. :D


Hah! I'm sure I know what reveals Nale. It's the green whatever he wears (Elan has an orange one). Nale seems to keep it on the left shoulder and hanging on the right side. And Elan the other way around.

Now look at the last picture...

Antina
2006-10-17, 06:30 AM
Whats with this "sorry old friend to let you go" Thing - is Nale talking about his goatie, or THOG?!

Ethdred
2006-10-17, 06:44 AM
Whats with this "sorry old friend to let you go" Thing - is Nale talking about his goatie, or THOG?!

I think that's the joke - you're supposed to think it's Thog (and maybe it is...)

Disappointed that we made it to page 3 before anyone made the Manson connection. That's what happens when you let bards loose...

Halrin
2006-10-17, 06:55 AM
Great comic, I loved it and can't wait for this to eb sorted out.

Minor things I noticed, the rookie says 'the bastard that killed the chief are inside'

instead of 'is inside' - minor thing and I'm not trying to be picky, I'd just rather mention it before it becomes a book.

Nightstallion
2006-10-17, 06:57 AM
Hah! I'm sure I know what reveals Nale. It's the green whatever he wears (Elan has an orange one). Nale seems to keep it on the left shoulder and hanging on the right side. And Elan the other way around.

Now look at the last picture...

Erm... Yes, so what? Elan is wearing Nale's band, and Nale is wearing Elan's band -- everything fits.

Let me also state that I really hate, hate, HATE mistaken identity stories. I'd prefer it if they'd never been invented, and if this turns out to be a real mistaken identity plotline, I just hope it's over sooner rather than later.

Grunjon
2006-10-17, 07:00 AM
Whats with this "sorry old friend to let you go" Thing - is Nale talking about his goatie, or THOG?!

Nale is MOST CERTAINLY talking to his goatie.

As a man who's had a beard for 20 years, but has shaved it off for brief periods of time (measured iin a single-digit number of weeks or less, each) maybe about a half dozen times during those two decades, I can say that it is not hard to become so attached to the thing, and identify it so much as part of yourself, that cutting it off is like saying goodbye to a friend.

And if you need another way for the good guys to identify that Nale is Nale, the remaining stubble on his chin where the goatie was should be good evidence. Not to mention that it will be pretty obvious that Elan's face hair was glued on, as the glue will dry with a coating that should be obvious to anyone who looks at it, or touches it.

On the other hand, who would dare to touch Nale's beard? :)


Good comic, Giant. A bit sickening, and yeah, many of us saw it coming. But not exactly THAT way, and it was all good. And funny.


"Thog helped!"


By the way, I haven't kept up with ALL the thread postings for the comics, but has anyone considered that the red-haired guy in CPPD is supposed to be David Caruso to Chief's Dennis Franz? :o



One last thing: "The bastard that killed the Chief are inside." Errrrr....

Corvus
2006-10-17, 07:02 AM
Erm... Yes, so what? Elan is wearing Nale's band, and Nale is wearing Elan's band -- everything fits.

Let me also state that I really hate, hate, HATE mistaken identity stories. I'd prefer it if they'd never been invented, and if this turns out to be a real mistaken identity plotline, I just hope it's over sooner rather than later.


Look at the direction tehy are being worn though...

Miklus
2006-10-17, 07:03 AM
Like SwampSheep said, Nales plan must be to have Elan executed by the law. They will probably make sure executed criminals cannot be resurrected.

And Nale is a satanist! Well...it shouldent be a surprise given the company he keeps (Sabrine). He was probably into worshipping evil before Sabrine showed, and Sabrine was sent because of it.

And there is no way Nale can impersonate Elan. ::)

Edtharan
2006-10-17, 07:05 AM
Erm... Yes, so what? Elan is wearing Nale's band, and Nale is wearing Elan's band -- everything fits.
Nale wears the sash over the left shoulder and Elan wears the sash over the right shoulder (left and right handed probably).

Rift_Wolf
2006-10-17, 07:11 AM
Two things

1) Even taking into account Nale's (As yet unexplained) hatred for Elan, does 15 massacres on innocent people, then killing the Chief of Police seem like a LAWFUL evil action? It seems more chaotic than anything else.

2) How do you switch off reply notification? I've been receiving roughly five messages an hour and it's clogging up my e-mail!

Blood
2006-10-17, 07:12 AM
I really didn't expect Nale to stoop that low...

Sonic_Moronic
2006-10-17, 07:21 AM
O_o

OOO, violent, lol.

I knew they Nale and Elan will change sides, its always like that in comics or Tv series. The bad guy pretends to be the good guy...

Cythraul
2006-10-17, 07:21 AM
Even taking into account Nale's (As yet unexplained) hatred for Elan
It has been explained - he hates Elan because Elan refused to join with him, and chose his friends instead.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0061.html

Edit: What has the rookie seen before that has been so horrific? Is it the previous crime scene some strips back, or something else?

carabaldo
2006-10-17, 07:35 AM
Two things

1) Even taking into account Nale's (As yet unexplained) hatred for Elan, does 15 massacres on innocent people, then killing the Chief of Police seem like a LAWFUL evil action? It seems more chaotic than anything else.

2) How do you switch off reply notification? I've been receiving roughly five messages an hour and it's clogging up my e-mail!


1) as pointed before... lawfulness isn't about not killing. It's how you do it. :)

2) look above: home help members search profile... notifications

Solmage
2006-10-17, 07:39 AM
Well, I'm glad that my prediction was accurate. Still, I'd have loved to have been surprised :-/ Ok, I'll force myself again to not think ahead :)

Awesome comic.

CynicalIllusionist
2006-10-17, 07:47 AM
Has anyone noticed Nale's chin? In every scene after he cuts off his beard there's a patch of lighter flesh where it used to be. I dunno, but if you had, like, EYES, and you looked, id be kind of suspicious that the "victim", who coincidentally looks exactly like the criminal, had a "there-was-just-a-beard-here-but-its-been-recently-shaved" spot on his chin, and was grinning, despite the fact that he was tied up in a sacrificial pentagram with two people with weapons standing over him. I mean the police force has shown that they are largely idiots, and ok, maybe the rookie could be excused for reasons of rage over the chiefs death, but if Julia or the OOTS dont notice? I'td be dissapointing.

Plus I hope Nale took all of Elans stuff, not just the cape...he has his instrument, his puppets, and his boots of elvenkind....if they turned up on the apparent criminal, that'd just be silly.

Gnarf
2006-10-17, 07:48 AM
Ok, I did lke the comic. Here are a couple of spoiler thoughts:

Haley will get back her voice just in time to save Elan from being killed by the cops.

The rookie will turn out to be one of two things. 1) That guy from CSI(?) that knows EVERYTHING and will solve the crime for everyone to see in some obscure way, or 2) he will turn out to be undercover for some outside agency that is/has been tracking Nale and Co. for a while.

Another alternative (although I think it would be an error, is for Elan to die, causing Haley to get her voice back. And then for the sister to take his place. Must say I hope that does not happen :)

Sir_Norbert
2006-10-17, 07:52 AM
nice! so that's why nale killed so many people...
Thank God, I hope you're right. When I first saw the last panel I thought Nale had taken the skulls out of the heads of the people that were hanging upside-down, and that *really* made me feel queasy. :-/

EthanAlshire
2006-10-17, 08:10 AM
"Thog never made tenderfoot."

Great comic, as usual.

Panzar_NSidious
2006-10-17, 08:12 AM
*Spoiler*
Has anyone considered that Nale only has to impersonate Elan long enough for the rest of the OotS to engage Thog and a defenseless Elan. I know a couple of the more chaotic members of my D&D group would see “Elan” tied up in the pentagram and cut down “Nale” before he can finish what ever ritual he has started. An elaborate plot by Nale to have the OotS kill Elan seems right on the mark.

Zargon
2006-10-17, 08:15 AM
The rookie sure seems more than he seems.
And where did Sabina go?

Deuce
2006-10-17, 08:17 AM
Good to see Nale getting in touch with his inner Belkar. The little guy is going to be so impressed when he sees this room.

Antina
2006-10-17, 08:17 AM
Not beeing native speaker either ;-)
But wouldn´t it be "bastardS" with an "s"?

Deuce
2006-10-17, 08:23 AM
Adding to the depth of the set-up, think back to Roy and Sabine's conversation about having a desecrated alter in the next room. Roy's going to be expecting a scene like this . . .

Vargtass
2006-10-17, 08:31 AM
Adding to the depth of the set-up, think back to Roy and Sabine's conversation about having a desecrated alter in the next room. Roy's going to be expecting a scene like this . . .

... and Elan's heart would give 12 month of evil bliss, I suppose ;D!

Caelestion
2006-10-17, 08:48 AM
Outstanding. The fighter/rogue/sorcerer does it again :)

Heloisa
2006-10-17, 08:51 AM
OMG!!! :o

So good and so bad at the same time!
Kudos on The Gamers joke!

Elcaz
2006-10-17, 09:05 AM
Though I saw this coming, I never imagined it in such style. I'm glad the Giant took this route because, c'mon, it's going to be an interesting ride. Nale posing as Elan? The possibilities are endless!

Serina_Spellbinder
2006-10-17, 09:11 AM
Besides the obvious explanation that he is an evil mastermind, and hence makes complex and evil plans, I'm not sure I quite grasp the purpose of this plan. If he just wanted Elan dead, he could have killed him - no problem. So there must be some other reason.

I can only think of two. One of the reasons is that Nale wants to be part of the OoTS. However, that can't last long because, as pointed out be other people, he probably can't "play the part" as Elan.

The other reason is that high-level adventurers too easily can be resurrected, so in order to make sure they stay dead they have to be criminals and dead - in that case, no Lawful authority will resurrect them. Perhaps the police does something to the body to ensure their permanent dead.

The thing is, Nale is such an evil bastard that he'd get the most satisfaction out of seeing Elan imprisoned and executed the crimes he committed while he gets away scot free.

SteveMB
2006-10-17, 09:12 AM
Ok, I did lke the comic. Here are a couple of spoiler thoughts:

Another alternative (although I think it would be an error, is for Elan to die, causing Haley to get her voice back. And then for the sister to take his place. Must say I hope that does not happen :)


Well, the oracle did say that Elan would have a happy ending -- while these prophecies are often misleading in one way or other (e.g. because the questioner is too clever by half, perhaps...), I don't see how that could happen without it being flat-out wrong, which would just be cheating.

Orzel
2006-10-17, 09:22 AM
I was wondering when Rich would do the "Twin stwitch".

I doubt Nale can pull off stupid long enough for Elan to be punished. 1 missed chance for naked dancing and blammo!

Nice comic.

Abthek
2006-10-17, 09:27 AM
Did anyone else notice that the Nale's sash is on Elan... the WRONG way?

RoxyFerret
2006-10-17, 09:27 AM
I doubt that the sash thing has anything to do with either Nale or Elan being right or left handed. Rather, I think it's due to the sash being placed on Elan by Nale instead of him donning it himself.

Try doing a necktie for someone else, or buttoning up someone else's shirt, and you'll see what I mean.

I think that Nale's undoing will be a little more shady.

~ Roxy

Natsilani
2006-10-17, 09:33 AM
Very nicely executed by Nale. And poor chief :'( again.

Reply to spoiler from Lloyd:

*SPOILER*
Haley won't figure it out. She'll realize she just likes Elan for his looks, and will quit having a crush on him. Maybe even will regain her speech at that point too, in a moment of self-realization.
*end spoiler*

By the way, I think the rookie's fast becoming my fav npc.

"Thog helped!" lol!

Can't wait for the next step in Nale's plan. Something tells me it's gonna be priceless ;D



And Nale is a satanist! Well...it shouldent be a surprise given the company he keeps (Sabrine). He was probably into worshipping evil before Sabrine showed, and Sabrine was sent because of it.

Devil-worshipper or demon-worshipper, not satanist, actually. Satanists don't have anything to do with evil. In fact, the core principle of a satanist: 'worship' self. Live your life for yourself.


Has anyone noticed Nale's chin? In every scene after he cuts off his beard there's a patch of lighter flesh where it used to be. I dunno, but if you had, like, EYES, and you looked, id be kind of suspicious that the "victim", who coincidentally looks exactly like the criminal, had a "there-was-just-a-beard-here-but-its-been-recently-shaved" spot on his chin, and was grinning, despite the fact that he was tied up in a sacrificial pentagram with two people with weapons standing over him. I mean the police force has shown that they are largely idiots, and ok, maybe the rookie could be excused for reasons of rage over the chiefs death, but if Julia or the OOTS dont notice? I'td be dissapointing.

Plus I hope Nale took all of Elans stuff, not just the cape...he has his instrument, his puppets, and his boots of elvenkind....if they turned up on the apparent criminal, that'd just be silly.
That's just the author giving his readers a hint. They are painted on top of the 4th wall (yay wallpaper). And, they are meant to show off the character's inner thoughts without having to explain them in words. Plus, it's funnier, for later opportunities of hindsight jokes.


Good to see Nale getting in touch with his inner Belkar. The little guy is going to be so impressed when he sees this room.
Hehe ;D
Although Belkar would go straight for the carnage. He does not have the foresight, patience and attention span to pull sth like that off. Nor does he have Nale's wisdom score.



... and Elan's heart would give 12 month of evil bliss, I suppose ;D!

I highly doubt Elan's a virgin, actually... Pff, pretty boys.

Dawnstrider_Moogle
2006-10-17, 09:33 AM
Why is Roy ignoring the sound of shouting, crossbow firing, etc. to interrogate the druid? ???

Movoza
2006-10-17, 09:33 AM
comic well done, and yes I didnt see it comming untill I started reading the last one..

"I've never seen anything so horrific!"
"I have."

Rayek
2006-10-17, 09:54 AM
“I’m happy to see you are still firmly rooted in your own personal universe, Julia.”

I loved that line almost as much as Thog’s line about lifting. Too bad Thog isn’t bright enough to realize what Nale has set him up for.

Has anyone else noticed how the bottle of Sovereign Glue looks like the Elmer's Glue we all used as kids in gradeschool?

Vargtass
2006-10-17, 09:55 AM
Why is Roy ignoring the sound of shouting, crossbow firing, etc. to interrogate the druid? ???

Because the sounds are from lowly NPCs and a PC that cannot be understood. Still, he will regret his ignorance...

Kaeri
2006-10-17, 10:07 AM
Looks like the chief finally got his crosses in hin eyes... wonder if OOTS are going to arrive before the CPPD decide to avenge their chief. Elan doesn't look in a state to defand himself from anything so even a couple of low NPC's might be able to get some damage in.(tho not enough to kill him I doubt - dont think he's taken that much damage already)

Frozen_Northman
2006-10-17, 10:15 AM
I'm secure in the knowledge that somehow, it will all work out in the end. Remember - Elan asked the Oracle whether the story would have a happy ending. The answer was yes - for him, at least.

This gives Elan a powerful feat: Script Immunity to anything that would ultimately prevent him from having a Happy Ending. He may be uncomfortable along the way, but he'll pull through.

Hyrael
2006-10-17, 10:18 AM
Erm... Yes, so what? Elan is wearing Nale's band, and Nale is wearing Elan's band -- everything fits.

Let me also state that I really hate, hate, HATE mistaken identity stories. I'd prefer it if they'd never been invented, and if this turns out to be a real mistaken identity plotline, I just hope it's over sooner rather than later.
I guess you've either seen too many operas, or would hate seeing an opera even more than a normal person would. I see where you're coming from, however.

I'm willing to give the giant a chance with this plotline. we're talking about a man who can take the same joke, like landing on a flumph, or something bad happening to a flumph, and use it in excess of four times, and still get a genuine LOL.

OmegaDonut
2006-10-17, 10:18 AM
... and Elan's heart would give 12 month of evil bliss, I suppose ;D!


The pretty boys get all the girls... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0159.html)

Dark_Stalion
2006-10-17, 10:35 AM
I know it's probably beens aid gods knows how many times, but HOW CUTE IS THOG???!!!!

All together now...

1

2

3

Awwwwwwww.


On another note the stubble is more so we can Identify Nale rather than the other Oots Characters, NPC or PC. I suspect that only Haly will realy be able to notice the diference and she will be unable to tell anyone cos of her "impediment".

Sanctu
2006-10-17, 10:58 AM
Why is Roy ignoring the sound of shouting, crossbow firing, etc. to interrogate the druid? ???

It's a part of his character. It's the same reason he went on _at length_ with his complex question to the oracle. It's the reason he himself didn't see through the whole "trial" thing in Azure City. He may be arguably more intelligent than Vaarsuvius (the Squidy Thing did go for Roy's brain, after all, over Vaarsuvius's), but his ego is also huge, and he's not always bright about everything.

It's all very much in character for him, I think.

CabbageTheif
2006-10-17, 11:02 AM
i called it.

i know that i am not the only one on this board who saw it comming, but in my d&d group, i called it.

they didnt beleive me: "no, its just a web comic." "no, rich would have that much depth." "no, get the gluestick out of your mouth." but i was so thinking this was going to happen and i so called it and BO-YA to my party members on this site.

rich, you are awsome. like, a million hotdogs.

warmachine
2006-10-17, 11:05 AM
Isn't there a gaping hole in Nale's plan in that Thog is too stupid to not tell everything? Thog may be stupid enough make an incriminating pose but he'll realise diverting the blame to Nale may the only way to escape being killed by the combined might of the OotS and he'll blurt out that Elan is not Nale when Elan is attacked.

zibeck
2006-10-17, 11:06 AM
Thog is the bomb!

Nerd-o-rama
2006-10-17, 11:13 AM
Okay, Thog is great, first of all.

"Ooh, head on a stick!"
"Thog helped!"

Nale's lines were also great, even if everything he does is a cliché.

Something tells me if the cops don't kill him, it'll be up to Haley to tell everyone the difference - there's enough clues here for someone with a enough spot, sense motive, attention paid to Elan, and common sense - four traits that only Haley has - to get the picture easily. I know people have already guessed it, but hey, everyone guessed Nale's plan too.

Also, I see a backstory in the rookie's future.

omegarob
2006-10-17, 11:20 AM
Did antone elce notice that the dead people hanging from the roof are
a elf
a halfling
a dwarf
a human female with red hair
and 2 male humans one with darker complection then the other?

Just something odd i thought i should point out

Alfryd
2006-10-17, 11:22 AM
New comic is up. Sorry again for the slight delay, which turned out to be more like 3 hours.

Well, this should be most amusing.

Besides the obvious explanation that he is an evil mastermind, and hence makes complex and evil plans, I'm not sure I quite grasp the purpose of this plan. If he just wanted Elan dead, he could have killed him - no problem. So there must be some other reason.
Oh, he wants to slaughter the rest of the group first and then let Elan know it was all his fault.
Was that a spoiler?
Yeah, I guess it was.
Actually, Nale doing significantly greater damage to the group than Elan does on a regular basis would be a masterstroke of ingenuity in and of itself. If nought else, Nale has a strong instinct for self-preservation and would know the benefits of keeping useful team-mates about when battling hordes of ravenous monsters.

Perhaps the police does something to the body to ensure their permanent dead.
Like burn them?


thog lift with knees, not back.
It's important.


And there is no way Nale can impersonate Elan.
It's easy. All he has to do is play himself, then subtract reason and accountability.


This gives Elan a powerful feat: Script Immunity to anything that would ultimately prevent him from having a Happy Ending. He may be uncomfortable along the way, but he'll pull through.
I think that was evident from the very beginning.

Xenon
2006-10-17, 11:23 AM
thats a lot of counts of murder.... how do you apply the death penalty in a world with raise dead? lets find out!

yay thog!

SteveMB
2006-10-17, 11:24 AM
Isn't there a gaping hole in Nale's plan in that Thog is too stupid to not tell everything? Thog may be stupid enough make an incriminating pose but he'll realise diverting the blame to Nale may the only way to escape being killed by the combined might of the OotS and he'll blurt out that Elan is not Nale when Elan is attacked.
It's not even a matter of Thog blabbing to save his own skin -- it's a matter of him blabbing because he's just too dumb to know better (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0070.html).

POSSIBLE SPOILER
One "ha ha glue too strong for you to pull of Nale's beard" or some such could give the game away.

Heloisa
2006-10-17, 11:30 AM
Did antone elce notice that the dead people hanging from the roof are
a elf
a halfling
a dwarf
a human female with red hair
and 2 male humans one with darker complection then the other?

Just something odd i thought i should point out

I didn't notice that! ???

Thanks for pointing that out!

battleburn
2006-10-17, 11:36 AM
Did antone elce notice that the dead people hanging from the roof are
a elf
a halfling
a dwarf
a human female with red hair
and 2 male humans one with darker complection then the other?

Just something odd i thought i should point out

That's just the people within the frame, in the background you see that there are a lot more shadows of people hanging from the ceeling.
Ergo, those are not the only ones.

I definitely think Thog is holding Elan steady on that pile of skulls.

Faramir
2006-10-17, 11:40 AM
Did antone elce notice that the dead people hanging from the roof are
a elf
a halfling
a dwarf
a human female with red hair
and 2 male humans one with darker complection then the other?

Just something odd i thought i should point out


Oooh, good catch!

While I agree with the people who said Nale could never impersonate Elan for any length of time, I'd like to point out that I'm sure Nale *thinks* he could.

Oh, and me love Thog too.

okpokalypse
2006-10-17, 12:01 PM
A Detect Evil solves the dilemna - provided the cops don't go all Rodney King on Elan (as Nale) and kill him.

Rich may also pull out the "dash of universal solvent" to get rid of the goatee. Although, I do think in the end it will be Thog that gives the plot away... Too much potential for comedy there :).

Doug_Lampert
2006-10-17, 12:18 PM
A Detect Evil solves the dilemna - provided the cops don't go all Rodney King on Elan (as Nale) and kill him.
Yeh, Nale could NEVER manage to get an Undetectable Alignment spell cast, heck it's Bard level 1 or Cleric level 2! Really hard spell for someone with spellcraft and UMD as class skills and a presumed 18 Cha.

But wait! It gets better! Detect evil gives at MOST the location and power of auras, and a Protection from Good Spell (or any other spell with the evil descriptor) GIVES the target an EVIL aura. At caster level 4 (aka Pompey or Nale) it gives a moderate aura, just like an Evil character of level 11 to 25 has.

Hence if Nale wants it to a Detect Evil Pings on Elan and not on Nale.

DougL

Solara
2006-10-17, 12:49 PM
Wow. That was...horrific.

And ingenious. Nale has won my grudging respect, but poor Elan!

It was weird seeing things from the point of view of the NPCs, too. Stupid adventurers never paying attention! :evil: (Except for Haley...)

All in all I'd have to say this was one of the best comics in a long time, but then again I'm a sucker for plot.

Brat
2006-10-17, 01:04 PM
OOOOh Love the Manson family reference.

Heloisa
2006-10-17, 01:38 PM
OOOOh Love the Manson family reference.

Which was...?

Sorry, I'm not american so I didn't get this reference. Care to explain, please?

Nekkira
2006-10-17, 02:09 PM
Two comments:
1) That is one darn sharp sword that it can pierce easily through the top of his head like that.

2) I love 'Thog helped'...reminds me of the shake and Bake commercials when I was little.

Nekkira
2006-10-17, 02:09 PM
Oh and I am American and don't see a Manson family reference either?

Imhotep
2006-10-17, 02:23 PM
Nale's plan is vile, but overcomplicated. He deserves a death simply for not doing things the easy way.

Sure, the police cannot tell the difference, but everyone in the Order most definetely will - no one would ever belief such a blatant ruse.

The only problem lies in them not climbing up fast enough, but hey, the Oracle did promise Elan a happy ending.

Also, I await Thog's demise with much anticipation. Yes, he's stupid and likes puppies, but I will never forgive him for killing the Sylph. Besides, Nale set him up too, and unlike Elan, he won't get out of that easily.

Sir_Norbert
2006-10-17, 03:17 PM
Spoiler:

Nale referred to Haley as Elan's girlfriend. Maybe *this* will be how he finally realises she like him? Oh, the irony!

The Extinguisher
2006-10-17, 03:35 PM
Well that was predictable. But funny :)

I would wonder, wouldn't anyone notice the patch of beard, from the fact that he shaved it with a dagger?

The_Kobold_Hero
2006-10-17, 03:46 PM
The death of Chief is sad, but I love how the rookie turned all badass! ;D

rellyjean
2006-10-17, 03:51 PM
What has the rookie seen before that has been so horrific? Is it the previous crime scene some strips back, or something else?
In #339 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html) he sees one of the massacre scenes and loses his lunch.


The pretty boys get all the girls... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0159.html)
Ah, but as he says later, they were just smooching. I'm sticking with 12 months on this one. ;)


he'll realise diverting the blame to Nale may the only way to escape being killed
Actually, I think he won't, but he'll blurt out something stupid like "Ha ha ha! That's right, kill not-Nale! He's really Nale, honest!" and Nale will go *HEADDESK*.

Although I'm really hoping that !SPOILER! it's Haley that saves the day, either by recovering her speech or giving Elan a smooch or SOMEthing suitably dramatic ... c'mon, Haley! !SPOILER!


Oh, and me love Thog too.
yay! faramir love thog! faramir should come join thread (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=comics;action=display;num=1134052499 ).


Nale's plan is vile, but overcomplicated.
Well, of course! He is a supervillain. They can never just break into the hero's house and kill him in his sleep; it's got to be a convoluted, showy plan that goes to insane lengths to accomplish a comparatively smaller goal. To quote Dr. Evil: "I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death." :)

GymGeekAus
2006-10-17, 04:15 PM
Did antone elce notice that the dead people hanging from the roof are
a elf
a halfling
a dwarf
a human female with red hair
and 2 male humans one with darker complection then the other?

Just something odd i thought i should point out Actually, the guy hanging with the pointed ear could be a half-elf. We cannot see the other side of his head!

His? Hmmm. I guess the gender is not specified yet either.....

Wolfram
2006-10-17, 04:21 PM
I'm disappointed. I thought Nale had a clever plan. Instead he is acting in a HETLER SKELTER manner! ;D

theKOT
2006-10-17, 04:31 PM
Well, it was alright. Incredibly predictable and unfunny, but it moved the plot along well. Also, it raises a decent amount of tension over the upcoming strips, so that's a plus, but it still wasn't that enjoyable. 4/10


On a spoiler note.....

What kind of ignoramous would buy Nale's ruse? I mean, you can still see the spot from him cutting off his goattee, you can tell that it is simply attached to Elan, and why would the sacrificial victim look cocky while the sacrificer looks dazed? Only an idiot would buy this baloney.

Wolfram
2006-10-17, 04:38 PM
Sorry, I'm not american so I didn't get this reference. Care to explain, please?

Charles Manson led a cult during the 60s in the LA area. The cult perpetrated severeal grisly killings. One of their trademarks was writing 'Die Pigs' and other such invective on the walls of the crime scenes. The story was retold in a book, 'Helter Skelter' which was made into a well recieved TV movie of the same title.

Imhotep
2006-10-17, 04:44 PM
And not only is the ruse hard to believe, but even if they do not understand it and kill Elan, how will he get away from a building swarming with police once they do figure it out?

Heloisa
2006-10-17, 04:49 PM
Thank you Wolfram. :)
I knew that Manson was a serial killer and all but never read anything about him or the cult nor have I seen the movie.

Anyway, excuse my lousy english and typos. :-/

Felinoid
2006-10-17, 04:57 PM
Some good chuckles, and moved the plot along nicely. A bit bland for rereading, I think, but quite good the first time through. Though it was rather disturbing to see what looked like two Nales in the last strip. :-X The real Nale just plain doesn't look like Elan because of his expression, and Elan does look surprisingly like Nale overall.

Good to see the rookie taking charge; I think he'll make a good chief when they need to choose a replacement. (Which could lead to a bit of tension and controversy within the department as he's promoted over more senior members, but that sounds like a spinoff and something we're not likely to see in the scope of this strip.)

I doubt anyone will see through the ruse, because they don't have the insight we have. They won't be looking for any of these inconsistencies because they have no reason to be suspicious, unlike we do as the readers (unless Rich pulls a "Hey, look at that panel!" 4th wall breakage). Haley may or may not, but at the very least if she does, it won't do any good until it's far too late, because that's generally how these things work.

Then again, the Giant likes breaking stereotypes and expectations, so you never know. And of course Thog definitely has the capability of royally screwing this up. And again I am forced to note how eerily similar to predictions this plot has been, and how the biggest questions get answered in the next strip. (In this case, the 'vorpal' effect.)

Tussy the Druid
2006-10-17, 05:18 PM
Sadly, i'm probably the only one who didn't see it coming. Probably cause if i think about what will happen next, then it will ruin the suprise. Anyway, good comic. me love thog too.

Cifer
2006-10-17, 05:19 PM
And not only is the ruse hard to believe, but even if they do not understand it and kill Elan, how will he get away from a building swarming with police once they do figure it out?
That would be either fighting it out as long as the OotS isn't there (he killed the chief, who was probably the highest level of all of them poor lowclassed NPCs, in a single sneak) or just retreating expeditiously.

Pantler
2006-10-17, 05:22 PM
After reading it for the third time, I remembered that my mouth was wide open.
Maybe I'm lousy at guessing what will happen next...
But I found this strip totally wicked ;D

Hyrael
2006-10-17, 05:31 PM
And not only is the ruse hard to believe, but even if they do not understand it and kill Elan, how will he get away from a building swarming with police once they do figure it out?
Hey, this plan worked for Hannibal Lector. and he didnt have the benefit of the twin thing

Baldknight
2006-10-17, 05:33 PM
Wow!

Now that is one of the most impressive pieces of cunning plannery I've seen. Things are getting interesting now.

Regneva
2006-10-17, 05:43 PM
Hi all.

Been stalking giantitp since strip 90 or so. Loving every bit of it. Go Rich!

For this particular strip I felt the urge to register to the forums and point something out:

Does anybody remember julia pointing out how nale would look cuter if he shaved his beard off?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html

I thought this made Nale angry because it would make him look a lot like Elan ;D

Now, coming to think about it,
Julia is the only one with a distinct eye for fashion sense (And yes she is quite an idiot about everything else). I think she would be the one to get attention to detail on the sash mirroring and/or the goatee at some point. Currently, Haley is out of the question (I think)

Also remember that she is the one already in the room, among several other NPC's, neither of them knowing either Elan or Nale. I think she was brought to this scene for some plot point, for the exact reason OOTS is currently away. For what? We don't know yet.

She hasn't seen Elan at any point, but she will be confused by seeing two "Nale"s, one without a goatee

Shea Landford
2006-10-17, 05:51 PM
Roflmao! Hilarious.

Has anyone else noticed that Thog never uses capital letters?

Kakashi
2006-10-17, 06:29 PM
Yeouch that sucks. i figured Nale would frame Elan, but that is just evil. I sure hope that the cops figure it all out (which i know they won't with their low spot checks and the like.), but that's just wrong.

Ikelberg
2006-10-17, 06:33 PM
One of the best plot strips of all time... by far.

J_Muller
2006-10-17, 06:41 PM
Nale seems to have realized the attachement Haley has to Elan, as he calls her his "girlfriend". I second what someone said about hating mistaken identity plotlines. Next to 'alternate universe' plotlines (*every "Sliders" episode ever*) and body-switching, they are the most overused gimmicks ever.

My prediction:
Nale wants to make them confuse Elan with him. The only person who would spot it is Haley, and Nale knows about the cryptogram thing. I think he underestimates her, however. I predict that Haley will shake off the curse to save Elan, and point out the switch, causing Nale to be defeated and run out of town.
End Prediction

Noneoyabizzness
2006-10-17, 06:51 PM
finally a practical use for soverign glue

Itdano
2006-10-17, 07:06 PM
That was incredibly diabolical. One might even go so far as to suggest that Nale just might be evil.

the_tick_rules
2006-10-17, 07:34 PM
So it was a frameup. Too bad though I predict the parent trap game won't hold for very long. Besides the more obvious detect evil and discern lies, no way Nale can act as stupid as elan is.

Tach13
2006-10-17, 07:37 PM
Thog rocks, I know I'm not the first to say it, but it needs to be said more. The line about "Thog nevermade Tenderfoot" was fantastic. Guess Half Orcs think Boy (Orc?) Scouts isn't cool.

NovaNightmare
2006-10-17, 07:38 PM
Yay! Plot hook or Fork? ;D


Oh! one way or another I think Thog is quite safe. (Barbarians can be nearly indistructable- Personal experiance)

Solara
2006-10-17, 07:56 PM
Okay, just had time to read through the thread, and like most everyone else I doubt Nale could successfully infiltrate the OotS for two seconds with this thing. However, I don't think that's the point of the plan anyway.

I always just assumed it had something to do with getting the OotS to kill Elan in the ensuing chaos (that I'm sure Thog will happily contribute to.) Given the state Elan's it might be difficult for him to open his mouth and say something Elan-ish enough to save him, and even if the OotS do realize what's going on, there's still the cops to contend with. They're probably the failsafe. (Sure, not as cool as being able to jump up and tell Roy, 'Neener neener! You just murdered your teammate!' but they'd do in a pinch.

Then if Thog is still alive he can help Nale escape, blissfully unaware of how expendable he's considered.

...at first I actually thought Nale was talking to Thog and about to set him up for a fall when he was all 'so long old friend', it took me a minute to click that he was cutting off the goatee.

Notaelf
2006-10-17, 08:08 PM
Thog never made tenderfoot *snicker* Great Comic, Mr. B Good thing Thog isn't bright enough to realise when he is being used

One day Thog will realize and... oh my oh my... that will be a strip worth staying up for...


<3 OOTS

Notaelf

Solara
2006-10-17, 08:16 PM
Also, on the sad day that OotS finally ends, Rich should totally start a new comic about NPC police officers in a generic D&D city. ;)

xyzchyx
2006-10-17, 08:38 PM
Roflmao! Hilarious.

Has anyone else noticed that Thog never uses capital letters?
Yes. Chalk it up to Thog being illiterate.

Holy_Knight
2006-10-17, 08:44 PM
*SPOILER*
Haley won't figure it out. She'll realize she just likes Elan for his looks, and will quit having a crush on him. Maybe even will regain her speech at that point too, in a moment of self-realization.
*end spoiler*

*Spoiler* No way. Haley clearly loves Elan for who he is now, even if it began as just a physical thing. If this does lead to her getting her speech back to normal, I imagine it will happen either in the process of saving Elan, or in figuring it out a moment too late (how sad would that be?) *Spoiler*




I highly doubt Elan's a virgin, actually... Pff, pretty boys.
I disagree--he is very popular with the girls, but he's also very naive and innocent. It's entirely possible that he's never actually gone that far with anyone, and we've never really seen him show any interest in doing so in the comic itself. The closest he came was with Samantha, and that was just because he thought it was his bardic duty.

All that being said, I am pretty worried for Elan here. I hate identity-switch cases, not in the sense of disliking them as a plot device like some people have said, but because it's such a horrible thing to happen to a good person.

Kesnit
2006-10-17, 08:44 PM
I just thought of this and didn't see anyone mention it.

Both Elan and Nale have arrow wounds in their arms. The officers can easy explain Elan's - they think Haley shot him after he killed the Chief. But how is Nale going to explain his?

Nightfall
2006-10-17, 08:46 PM
Given the state Elan's in it might be difficult for him to open his mouth and say something Elan-ish enough to save him

Unless Haley sees with her heart and not her eyes... :)

Fossaman
2006-10-17, 08:50 PM
Awesome comic! It took me a while to figure out what was going on. I loved the elmers-esque label on the glue bottle.

Spit_Dog
2006-10-17, 09:02 PM
Someone stuck Sipowicz's head on a sword...how bad a comic can it be?

charik
2006-10-17, 09:03 PM
OK, so I'm the second person to mention how Nale refers to Haley as Elan's girlfriend. Since there was never anything to indicate this while the two groups were together, the only explanation is that he makes the connection Nale:Sabine::Elan:Haley.

fractal
2006-10-17, 09:05 PM
I just thought of this and didn't see anyone mention it.

Both Elan and Nale have arrow wounds in their arms. The officers can easy explain Elan's - they think Haley shot him after he killed the Chief. But how is Nale going to explain his?
No, that's why Nale quaffed a healing potion. His wound is now healed.

epalmer
2006-10-17, 09:24 PM
I think its DIE PIGS!, where pigs is slang for police.

Gee, I thought it said "Die Please!".

KeiranHalcyon
2006-10-17, 09:46 PM
Plus I hope Nale took all of Elans stuff, not just the cape...he has his instrument, his puppets, and his boots of elvenkind....if they turned up on the apparent criminal, that'd just be silly.
Actually, it would be expected. What sane abductor would leave his prisoner with all his stuff? Remember that Nale's trying to make Elan look like the bad guy, so Elan should have all of Elan's stuff (or at least have it piled off to the side) to complete that illusion.

Then again, Nale doesn't exactly seem sane. It also appears (to me at least) that Elan's banjo got left behind ten strips ago, with who-knows-what-else of Elan's stuff.

Tobimaro
2006-10-17, 10:00 PM
So it was a frameup. Too bad though I predict the parent trap game won't hold for very long. Besides the more obvious detect evil and discern lies, no way Nale can act as stupid as elan is.

But he can outsmart himself when the time is right. Remember how much trouble he had with the Sending spell scrolls.

I just hope that someone who actually knows Nale gets up there to investigate. Like Haley or Roy.

J_Muller
2006-10-17, 10:06 PM
Actually, I just thought of another possiblity.
Nale will find it hard to imitate Elan, so perhaps a chain of events will lead to him saying, "if this isn't stupid enough, nothing is" and coming up with the naked=invisible thing, at which point Haley spots the difference in their, eh, "under-the-hood" CHA, and points it out somehow. If she doesn't regain speech, it would be hilarious seeing her attempts to communicate to the others.

RiderofStorms
2006-10-17, 10:21 PM
Awesome Comic! Poor ELAN! I hope he gets out alright....Roy and V can see through it...proboly haley to...But will they be able to stop the gaurds in time? I can't wait till the next one!
One thing though i'm curious about...When the gaurds all walk into the room, they exclaim they've never seen worse, except for the "Rookie" who says he has seen worse..((GO! ROOKIE BTW!!!))

captainswift
2006-10-17, 10:37 PM
Great holy bajinga!

I only just now read it, and that's all I can think to say on the subject.

Nazzo, the 102nd
2006-10-17, 10:46 PM
The real Nale just plain doesn't look like Elan because of his expression, and Elan does look surprisingly like Nale overall.

I agree with the first, but not with the second. When I first looked at the last panel, I totally saw an oozy Elan standing up and Nale tied up on the floor. I dunno, I just see through, and can't see one as the other.

Have you guys ever had a pair of identical twins as friends for a long time? I did, and I say that, in the long run, they are totally different. Totally. :D

We are with Elan for a long time now, we just know how to distinguish between them. It's obvious. That's why I think all OotS will see through. But the cops don't...

Nashua
2006-10-17, 10:47 PM
Hi Riderofstorms, I was curious about that too. What does the Rookie mean when he says he's seen worse? Is he just talking about the mass murders he saw on his first day on the job, the first time we meet the Chief? If so, I don't remember any pentagrams or piles of skulls in that comic.
On another note, where do the rocket skates come in?
Me and Thog love rocket skates!

Nazzo, the 102nd
2006-10-17, 10:51 PM
What does the Rookie mean when he says he's seen worse? Is he just talking about the mass murders he saw on his first day on the job, the first time we meet the Chief?

Yes, I'm afraid so.



On another note, where do the rocket skates come in?
Me and Thog love rocket skates!

The rocket skates were already used to kidnap Julia on 257.

DraxtonSmitz
2006-10-17, 10:57 PM
Bah... You beat me to it. I was browsing trying to find the comic number and got distracted re-reading other episodes.

Nazzo, the 102nd
2006-10-17, 11:06 PM
Bah... You beat me to it. I was browsing trying to find the comic number and got distracted re-reading other episodes.

Heh. I would probably got distracted too, if it wasn't for the luck of finding the right comic on the first click. :D

Dabble
2006-10-17, 11:06 PM
looking forward to seeing what happens next!

Also looking forward to Ubercon!

Interesting that the acting chief actually is acting not like a normal NPC.

fractal
2006-10-17, 11:12 PM
Regarding Thog, you really have to wonder if just 5 police officers have any chance of capturing him. They'd better not do anything that causes him to forget whatever orders to cooperate Nale has given him.

CynicalIllusionist
2006-10-17, 11:50 PM
There's one flaw in the "nale acting like Elan by doing stupid stuff" theory. If you think about it, when has Nale ever seen Elan do his prime material? He wasnt there for the naked invisibility. He wasnt there for Banjo. Pretty much the only stupid things Elan has done in front of Nale are some dumb questions, and not being able to see the similarity between their origin stories. While these things are stupid, they are just regular Elan stupid, rather than over-the-top crazy optimist stupid.

So basically, Nale can only think his brother is just a regular idiot, rather than a...well, an Elan. And that just might be what ruins him

Esclados
2006-10-18, 12:31 AM
I just hope the town raises the Chief. I mean, he was pretty high-level; I think it's a worthy investment.

baerdith
2006-10-18, 03:04 AM
Both Elan and Nale have arrow wounds in their arms. The officers can easy explain Elan's - they think Haley shot him after he killed the Chief. But how is Nale going to explain his?

Well, Nale did say he was going to drink a healing potion.....

battleburn
2006-10-18, 03:54 AM
I agree with the first, but not with the second. When I first looked at the last panel, I totally saw an oozy Elan standing up and Nale tied up on the floor. I dunno, I just see through, and can't see one as the other.

Have you guys ever had a pair of identical twins as friends for a long time? I did, and I say that, in the long run, they are totally different. Totally. :D

We are with Elan for a long time now, we just know how to distinguish between them. It's obvious. That's why I think all OotS will see through. But the cops don't...

If you know just one half of twins, then it still is really hard to distinguish them. Last year there was this thing on the TV about twins. And they tested if friends of the one twin could see through if the other twin had dinner with them. They couldn't most of the times.
When you know both of them, well then you can just see the difference no matter what clothes they are wearing. OotS doesn't know Nale well enough, so they haven't been able to spot the differences between the two.

Caractacus
2006-10-18, 04:00 AM
Spoiler theory:

Just wondering - is it possible that the red-headed cop is actually Sabine? I haven't checked to see if they appear together, but it would certainly help Nale's plan go through...

battleburn
2006-10-18, 04:02 AM
Just wondering - is it possible that the red-headed cop is actually Sabine? I haven't checked to see if they appear together, but it would certainly help Nale's plan go through...

This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0356.html) is where you see Sabine. It's in the last frame. Sabine has red eyes and whistles to let Pompey let know it is him

Lexx
2006-10-18, 04:09 AM
I've never complained about a OotS strip yet, but I just HAVE to say that the idea of glueing a cut off goatee onto someone's face and having it fool police is just.... No, I can't accept it, sorry.

bexie
2006-10-18, 04:14 AM
wow...

just, wow....

that was very evil-geniusey.

WOW.

Caractacus
2006-10-18, 04:31 AM
Hi battleburn,

More on spoiler theory:

Yeah, I know about the red eyes and so forth, but if you look carefully in the frame before, the same cop does NOT have red eyes. Sabine can hide her appearance completely - remember the weaponsmith who talked to Roy? It is entirely possible.

I just hope that the new guy, who seems to be sensisble and will otherwise be the one that has to be persuaded to save Elan, has not been killed and replaced by Sabine.

I am actually assuming that it's not the case, because the cop says he has seen this bad before - at the mass murder scene with the chief. Mind you, Sabine has seen worse too...

Sebastian
2006-10-18, 04:51 AM
I just thought of this and didn't see anyone mention it.

Both Elan and Nale have arrow wounds in their arms. The officers can easy explain Elan's - they think Haley shot him after he killed the Chief. But how is Nale going to explain his?
He just drank an healing potion, the wound is gone (the hole in the sleeve is gone, too ;) )

Personally I think it would be hilarious is nale's plot blow up in his face even before it can start. There is a little detail, already mentioned in this thread (well, two detail, but I assume the stubble is just to evident to count) that could make the rookie discover everything with just a look if his spot skill is as high as it seems, and that would be great for Nale to go with all this convoluted plan only to give himself up, tied up and weaponless to the CCPD. (and with Thog that probably was ordered to not defend him, that is, Elan, I mean... oh, well, you know.

Spoiler
the sash(?) on Elan is on his right shoulder, but when Nale killed the chief it was on his left shoulder and the rookie saw it. (and I think it is too important to be just a "blunder" of Rich

Sebastian
2006-10-18, 04:56 AM
Gee, I thought it said "Die Please!".

Oh, mine, that would be the epitome of lawful-evilness. ;D

Moechi_Vill
2006-10-18, 06:41 AM
There's an error in [first person ---------> are] somewhere in the comic, don't quite remember where.

carais
2006-10-18, 07:14 AM
Seems I cannot resist - the rookie, forgetting for a moment he's a rookie (and coming from an elder cow-orker things like these can stick for tens of years...) wouldn't by chance be promoted to, say, captain after the chief's death? Plus the red hair... Plus he's then head of the police (one could say the watch)...

Vargtass
2006-10-18, 07:43 AM
I've never complained about a OotS strip yet, but I just HAVE to say that the idea of glueing a cut off goatee onto someone's face and having it fool police is just.... No, I can't accept it, sorry.



I have not gone through the rules-mongering on this, but it should translate to a DC 30 Disguise check or something... while rare, not completely outside the realm of possibility.

JMFD
2006-10-18, 07:44 AM
Also remember one thing that happened a while back if it comes to Elan being arrested:

Elan is owed a favour by Lord Shojo

Om
2006-10-18, 07:50 AM
Seems I cannot resist - the rookie, forgetting for a moment he's a rookie (and coming from an elder cow-orker things like these can stick for tens of years...) wouldn't by chance be promoted to, say, captain after the chief's death? Plus the red hair... Plus he's then head of the police (one could say the watch)...
I wonder if he has a birth mark in the shape of a crown… :)

There was a thread on this last week and I personally believe that its just a standard Hollywood archetype rather than a deliberate riff of a more oddly shaped world.

Retales
2006-10-18, 08:10 AM
I just hope nothing... fatal happens to Thog. I want to see him in the future again.

oh, little ice cream friends! thog delay boredom-driven rampage only for you!

Doug_Lampert
2006-10-18, 10:06 AM
I just hope the town raises the Chief. I mean, he was pretty high-level; I think it's a worthy investment.Level 6 NPC class, NPC gear is by CR, so he should have about 4,800gp in Gear. At this point the damage is plainly too bad for a raise, so we need a resurect costing 10,000gp for components and 910gp for the spell.

If he's worth 10,910gp to bring back then he would have been worth more than 4,800gp to equip so you'd be less likely to NEED to bring him back.

Level 6+ NPC's are a trivial minority of the populace and are the best of the best, but they are also still WAY too poor to pay for resurection magic. Resurections are EXPENSIVE by the standards of everyone but the PCs who live in a very special world where money falls out of trees and hits them on the head (read Haley in OtOoPCs, where she discusses the fact that a bunch of adventurers could sit in a bar drinking for a month and someone would come and dump a level appropriate treasure in their laps).

SteveMB
2006-10-18, 10:14 AM
Also remember one thing that happened a while back if it comes to Elan being arrested:

Elan is owed a favour by Lord Shojo
Yes, but if he can't prove that he's Elan, that doesn't do him any good (if he can, he's home free anyway)

carabaldo
2006-10-18, 11:06 AM
I've never complained about a OotS strip yet, but I just HAVE to say that the idea of glueing a cut off goatee onto someone's face and having it fool police is just.... No, I can't accept it, sorry.



Realism in a stick figures comic. What else shall we be asking for?
Fireball thermodinamics? ;)

Nazzo, the 102nd
2006-10-18, 11:18 AM
I've never complained about a OotS strip yet, but I just HAVE to say that the idea of glueing a cut off goatee onto someone's face and having it fool police is just.... No, I can't accept it, sorry.



This reminds me of a Beavis and Butt Head episode... :D

SteveMB
2006-10-18, 11:31 AM
I've never complained about a OotS strip yet, but I just HAVE to say that the idea of glueing a cut off goatee onto someone's face and having it fool police is just.... No, I can't accept it, sorry.
That depends on how long the disguise has to hold. If the plan is for draw CPPD and/or OotS into charging in in a rage and turning "Nale" into a pincushion while the real Nale takes his leave, it doesn't have to withstand close scrutiny.

Nutmegger
2006-10-18, 11:49 AM
As I see it, there are really two separate issues.
1. Will this fool OotS? No, clearly not. Roy, Haley, Durkon, V will all see through this in a minute, and Roy, with his Masters in Battle Administration may make some snarky comment about the lameness of the plot. But I'm not sure it matters much because...
2. Will this fool the local police? More likely, yes. They have no history with Nale and Elan. All they know is they are looking for a guy with a goatee, and they have one. With the Chief dead, the rest of them are likely to haul Elan in and keep him a good long time. Which may have been the whole point of the plot anyway. As shown by Julia being set free.

Hototo
2006-10-18, 12:49 PM
Wow, so yeah, I'm not entirely sure what is still going to happen because of all of this, other than that the OOtS will be tied up for quite a while. But don't forget that Zykon is still coming, and this should keep our heros in the city... either that or Elan will be left alone, and some kind of crazy peril will befall him.

Solara
2006-10-18, 01:28 PM
Also remember one thing that happened a while back if it comes to Elan being arrested:

Elan is owed a favour by Lord Shojo


Hmm. Interesting. I wonder if Nale has that card Roy gave him now, along with the rest of Elan's stuff?

Sir_Norbert
2006-10-18, 01:38 PM
Did anyone else notice the foreshadowing in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0356.html)?

CHIEF: At least until the mayor puts my head on a pike....

Freelance Henchman
2006-10-18, 02:34 PM
Wow, this is sort of the strip where I really realize OOTS is definitely not a kiddie's comic. This one had a real slasher flic vibe to it with chief's head on Nale's sword.

I hope the boys in the precinct have a collection to get the chief raised.

silvadel
2006-10-18, 02:54 PM
Belkar could have crafted a much better disturbing mental image from that scene.

Freelance Henchman
2006-10-18, 02:55 PM
Belkar could have crafted a much better disturbing mental image from that scene.


It's not a contest! (lol)

Goofy
2006-10-18, 03:09 PM
Don't forget that visually, to the reader, it has to be obvious which is which because the Giant isn't trying to fool us.

Things that are obvious to us in the audience might not be obvious to the characters. ("Don't answer the phone." "Obviously the killer's upstairs." etc.)

the_tick_rules
2006-10-18, 03:22 PM
Yeah he's probably hoping the cops will kill Elan before OOTS arrives. They'll probably notice and I just remembered you get bonuses for noticing disguises the more familar you are with the person they're trying to pose as. Even Haley probably won't get the maximium bonus( +10 for being intimately familar I believe) but they'll get the next category probably. Come to think of it he has streaked in front of them all several times, that could be intimately acquainted, in a gross way but intimate none the less.

nougat
2006-10-18, 03:33 PM
I think Nale outlines his general plan and his reasoning in the last few panels of this comic:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0258.html

Greely
2006-10-18, 06:04 PM
Hmm. Interesting. I wonder if Nale has that card Roy gave him now, along with the rest of Elan's stuff?


In strip 298 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0298.html) we see all the party members receiving their gifts. In that strip Elan doesn't have his gift certificate any more, but he now has a lollipop. I can totally see Elan asking for whatever trivial thing he most wants at the time, which could easily have been a lollipop at that exact moment.

Finwe
2006-10-18, 06:14 PM
Yeah he's probably hoping the cops will kill Elan before OOTS arrives. They'll probably notice and I just remembered you get bonuses for noticing disguises the more familar you are with the person they're trying to pose as. Even Haley probably won't get the maximium bonus( +8 for being intimately familar I believe) but they'll get the next category probably. Come to think of it he has streaked in front of them all several times, that could be intimately acquainted, in a gross way but intimate none the less.


But they're identical twins. So unless one of them has a mole or something, it still wouldn't solve much.

KaroLunel
2006-10-18, 07:20 PM
Maybe it'll be one those things where they ask each one a question that only Elan could know the answer to, like "What's the best way to get invisibilty?"

the_tick_rules
2006-10-18, 07:48 PM
or what's 1+1. Whoever gets it right is nale hehe.

baerdith
2006-10-18, 07:57 PM
Level 6 NPC class, NPC gear is by CR, so he should have about 4,800gp in Gear. At this point the damage is plainly too bad for a raise, so we need a resurect costing 10,000gp for components and 910gp for the spell.

If he's worth 10,910gp to bring back then he would have been worth more than 4,800gp to equip so you'd be less likely to NEED to bring him back.

Level 6+ NPC's are a trivial minority of the populace and are the best of the best, but they are also still WAY too poor to pay for resurection magic. Resurections are EXPENSIVE by the standards of everyone but the PCs who live in a very special world where money falls out of trees and hits them on the head (read Haley in OtOoPCs, where she discusses the fact that a bunch of adventurers could sit in a bar drinking for a month and someone would come and dump a level appropriate treasure in their laps).

One thing though, The Chief wasn't JUST a 6th level NPC, he was a ranking member of the community. Most towns and cities only have a 7th-10th level Leader/King.

The Chief is a political figure and so his value would be greater than an average 6th level NPC. He's been there for 32 years, he's got to have made himself fairly important.

Finwe
2006-10-18, 10:08 PM
Shouldn't
"the bastard that killed the chief are inside"
be
"the bastard that killed the chief is inside?"

Rpgfish
2006-10-18, 10:13 PM
^_^ I wonder what the rookie saw that could be worse than Thog's and Nale's effort to arrange the ugliest room in the city? I'm just glad that Belkar isn't in there, mutilating the mess in front of the cops.

My guess is that the rookie will save Elan and be killed by Nale, then Nale will get away. Or that Elan will be taken to prison and we'll spend a few comic readings on the difficulty of sorting it out. If there was ever a time to use the Booty Talisman (Comic 320), it would be then. Although I hope that the trial doesn't take as long as it did for Roy.

Eva_of_Sirrion
2006-10-18, 10:39 PM
Or maybe someone will simply notice that "Nale's" baldric has moved to his right shoulder. ;D

Aerysil1
2006-10-18, 11:24 PM
Or maybe someone will simply notice that "Nale's" baldric has moved to his right shoulder. ;D

Good catch. Hopefully we find out in... about 30 minutes.

Erloas
2006-10-18, 11:25 PM
Shouldn't
"the bastard that killed the chief are inside"
be
"the bastard that killed the chief is inside?"

That would be the case in a grammatically prefect world, but just like real life, the people in OOTS probably aren't either. Maybe it is to show that while the rookie isn't completely incompetant like the rest of the police, he still might not be formally educated.

As for Elan, he might become un-dazed and defend himself against the police. But given the fact that he uses rapiers, and while he might technically be proficient with Nales sword there is a good chance he won't actually know that. It probably wouldn't take long in combat for the police to realize the person they are fighting clearly isn't the one that decapitaded the chief in a single blow just minutes before.

taraxia
2006-10-18, 11:30 PM
He just drank an healing potion, the wound is gone (the hole in the sleeve is gone, too ;) )

The hole was in the sleeve of the shirt that Nale has now put on Elan, which he's also reinserted the arrow through.

RiderofStorms
2006-10-18, 11:40 PM
The hole was in the sleeve of the shirt that Nale has now put on Elan, which he's also reinserted the arrow through.

Lol, also the Giant already established the fact that healing potions fix cloths...somehow ^^
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html

Lexx
2006-10-20, 12:55 AM
Julia definitely got the brains in thr Greenhilt family, and she's been around nale for a couple weeks and she wants to see his ass flattened, so bet on her screwing up his plan somehow. Hr being free at this point was one factor nale hadn't counted on, and he's offended her enough for her to want him burned.

This might also prove her worth/maturity to brother roy, and put him in her debt.

Om
2006-10-20, 07:26 AM
Shouldn't
"the bastard that killed the chief are inside"
be
"the bastard that killed the chief is inside?"
I suspect that there's an "s" missing. Thog is also present remember.

"The bastards that killed the chief are inside"