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Amnoriath
2016-06-20, 07:43 AM
Human

Ability Score Increase: Select four ability scores you may increase them by 1

Age: Humans reach adulthood in their late teens and live less than a century.

Alignment: Humans tend toward no particular alignment. The best and the worst are found among them.

Size: Humans vary widely in height and build, from barely 5 feet to well over 6 feet tall. Regardless of your position in that range, your size is Medium.

Speed: Your base walking speed is 30 feet.

Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common and one extra language of your choice. Humans typically learn the languages of other peoples they deal with, including obscure dialects. They are fond of sprinkling their speech with words borrowed from other tongues: Orc curses, Elvish musical expressions, Dwarvish military phrases, and so on.

Able Learner: You gain proficiency in a skill or tool of your choice. Additionally training to be proficient in a tool or learn a language only costs half the time and resources.

Heroic Effort: When you would fail a save or on an attack roll as long as you aren't incapacitated you can reroll the die with advantage. Once this is used you must complete a long rest to use it again.

Talent: Striving effort and adaptable skills have lead to many a progeny among the human race creating a variety of combinations no other one could. You may choose one of the following abilities.

Arctic Recall: As long as you are moderately clothed you do not roll for exhaustion while in extreme cold. Additionally you can accurately recall anything you have seen or heard within the past month.

Brave: You have advantage on saves against being Frightened.

Darkvision: You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You canít discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

Dune Strider: As long as you are wearing light or no clothing you do not roll for exhaustion while in extreme heat. Additionally you can move stealthily at a normal pace.

Ocean Guide: You can hold your breath for double the amount of time(minimum 2 minutes) before needing air. Additionally you always know which way is north.

Polyglot: You may know 2 additional languages.

Stout Resilience: You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage.

War Born: You gain 2 weapon proficiencies of your choice

Amnoriath
2016-06-21, 03:34 PM
Nobody wants to comment?

This be Richard
2016-06-21, 03:43 PM
With four ability scores already raised by one, there's not a whole ton of room for additional features. Able Learner and Heroic Effort, both being very nice features that are more widely useful than many racial abilities, are probably too much good for a race that's already got four points of abilities... and maybe too much good for a race, period.

I really like the idea behind Talent. "We've mixed and matched with other races so much that almost everybody's got some kind of extra-racial artifact showing up." Might want to provide an option for people who want to play relatively pure-bred, xenophobic humans, though.

Talore
2016-06-21, 03:50 PM
It is definitely an improvement over the basic human. I like how you give them options based on physiology and racial diversity rather than just "lol humans are the most normal and adaptable of all races." It makes sense to tie things like language into human societies conducting trade with various other races.

Mr.Moron
2016-06-21, 04:22 PM
I think Able Learner is a both a bit too strong, and just a bit too out of line with generic human flavor (we change jobs & training every 8 hours?) that's some supernatural stuff right there.

I'd next Dark Vision & Stout Resilience from "Talent" options, these are just bits of physiology people don't have. I'd personally look to have things that feel a bit more personality based the way "Brave" is.

You could also stick a +1 proficiency bonus in there to kind of do what able learner does, just without the insane flexibility.

Amnoriath
2016-06-21, 10:50 PM
With four ability scores already raised by one, there's not a whole ton of room for additional features. Able Learner and Heroic Effort, both being very nice features that are more widely useful than many racial abilities, are probably too much good for a race that's already got four points of abilities... and maybe too much good for a race, period.

I really like the idea behind Talent. "We've mixed and matched with other races so much that almost everybody's got some kind of extra-racial artifact showing up." Might want to provide an option for people who want to play relatively pure-bred, xenophobic humans, though.

1. It may seem that way but do consider the Half-elf which is one of the prime reasons why I did this. They have 4 points, 3 languages, Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and 2 skill proficiencies of their choice. Able Learner while versatile is now where near on demand. Heroic Effort is strong but do consider it is one roll per day and it technically doesn't stop you from being incapacitated.
2. Well it definitely could be taken that way but primarily its more like adaptation. Things like Xenophobia is a personality characteristic so if that is their character then the player should then just choose whatever his own people have.

Amnoriath
2016-06-21, 11:10 PM
I think Able Learner is a both a bit too strong, and just a bit too out of line with generic human flavor (we change jobs & training every 8 hours?) that's some supernatural stuff right there.

I'd next Dark Vision & Stout Resilience from "Talent" options, these are just bits of physiology people don't have. I'd personally look to have things that feel a bit more personality based the way "Brave" is.

You could also stick a +1 proficiency bonus in there to kind of do what able learner does, just without the insane flexibility.
1. Well, this is D&D and I had to make a feature that captured it and that could compete with Skill Versatility. The Half-Elf kind of threw everything off. In a way 4e's standard racial skill bonuses would have worked better in helping to differentiate between races instead of "One race will have this extra proficiency while the other chooses what ever they want,", but it would need to account for Bounded Accuracy.
2. Eh, Darkvision in this edition though is less beneficial and those who would grew up in dark places probably would see better in the dark. People do have resistances against some poisons or other toxic chemicals. While it may not be "Ah-hah this is what is," it is the simple 5e equivalent that fits the .5 point ticket.
3. You mean just a +1 bonus that doesn't stack? Something like that for the time would be next to useless and wouldn't get used. I don't mean to sound harsh but I needs something in the ballpark of Skill Versatility but not that feature.

tombowings
2016-06-22, 12:21 AM
In short, I like it. It's much better than either the variant human or the normal human.

I like how there are different Talent options, but I would want there to be more, possibly. I might think about what sorts of abilities humans from different cultures and environments would have. Human that live in the tundra vs. the desert vs. the city, for example. Don't go out and call it "desert dweller" or anything, but it could be an interesting starting point.

I'm not so keen on the Able Learner ability, though. The ability to change proficiency seems out of place. It certainly isn't something every human should have. "I woke up today knowing how to use thieves' tools" isn't something I wan't from humans. It would be great, however, for a race that is a personified memory of its ancestors.

Amnoriath
2016-06-23, 12:42 AM
UPDATE: Changed Able Learner and added more Talents.

This be Richard
2016-06-23, 09:13 AM
I definitely prefer the new Able Learner, though it feels kind of like two features wrapped up under a single title. Also, it seems like the skill vs. tool choice isn't a great one since you can pick up new tool proficiencies with time (in half the usual time, in fact), but you can't do the same for skill proficiencies. I'd probably just separate it out into one feature that grants you a skill proficiency of your choice and another feature that halves learning requirements.

The new Talent options are good. I like that the adaptations seem less universally like a consequence of interbreeding with other humanoids now.

I still feel like Heroic Effort might be a touch too good. Maybe if it just gave you a reroll instead of a reroll with advantage?

Mr.Moron
2016-06-23, 09:32 AM
1. Well, this is D&D and I had to make a feature that captured it and that could compete with Skill Versatility. The Half-Elf kind of threw everything off. In a way 4e's standard racial skill bonuses would have worked better in helping to differentiate between races instead of "One race will have this extra proficiency while the other chooses what ever they want,", but it would need to account for Bounded Accuracy.
2. Eh, Darkvision in this edition though is less beneficial and those who would grew up in dark places probably would see better in the dark. People do have resistances against some poisons or other toxic chemicals. While it may not be "Ah-hah this is what is," it is the simple 5e equivalent that fits the .5 point ticket.
3. You mean just a +1 bonus that doesn't stack? Something like that for the time would be next to useless and wouldn't get used. I don't mean to sound harsh but I needs something in the ballpark of Skill Versatility but not that feature.

2) It isn't just see better in the dark it allows you to see in pitch blackness. If sealed in an underground room with no light sources whatsoever, a creature with Darkvision can still just fine as human could in low candlelight.That's just fundamentally not something not humans can do, a creature that can do that (without aid magic), is substantively not human.

3) I mean an extra proficiency:
Able Learner-as-Talent: You may choose one additional skill or tool proficiency from among those available to your starting class.

Talore
2016-06-23, 01:27 PM
Able learner is a lot better now. Considering the Half-Elf getting two skills regardless of class, I think it is okay to do the same with one proficiency for humans. Half-elf is definitely OP though, and if someone nerfs half-elves in their games, they should change this extra proficiency accordingly.

New talents are great. I'm definitely going to use this human over the core humans when I DM 5e. Any chance for environmental talents for mountainous regions and great forests/swamps?

Amnoriath
2016-06-23, 02:19 PM
2) It isn't just see better in the dark it allows you to see in pitch blackness. If sealed in an underground room with no light sources whatsoever, a creature with Darkvision can still just fine as human could in low candlelight.That's just fundamentally not something not humans can do, a creature that can do that (without aid magic), is substantively not human.

3) I mean an extra proficiency:
Able Learner-as-Talent: You may choose one additional skill or tool proficiency from among those available to your starting class.

1. And how would low candle light look in that room, especially considering it isn't in color? You see dim light automatically inflicts disadvantage so we aren't talking about just "mood lighting" or anything not in direct sun. We are talking about an area where things are considerably more dark than light. People can be acclimated to darkness, in fact I can honestly say after a good 10 minutes I could see shapes, movement..etc in pure darkness. So, to me not it isn't that far of a stretch that humans who grew up in certain areas could see like this Darkvision, especially in a fantasy scenario.
2. Hmm, than what would be its other feature then? Humans almost always had extra skills or such choices in other editions.

Amnoriath
2016-06-23, 02:27 PM
I definitely prefer the new Able Learner, though it feels kind of like two features wrapped up under a single title. Also, it seems like the skill vs. tool choice isn't a great one since you can pick up new tool proficiencies with time (in half the usual time, in fact), but you can't do the same for skill proficiencies. I'd probably just separate it out into one feature that grants you a skill proficiency of your choice and another feature that halves learning requirements.

The new Talent options are good. I like that the adaptations seem less universally like a consequence of interbreeding with other humanoids now.

I still feel like Heroic Effort might be a touch too good. Maybe if it just gave you a reroll instead of a reroll with advantage?

1. Many things do that the question to me is that does it make sense for the title used and is it balanced?
2. Well, that is the PHB's treatment and I would rather let people make a judgment call on that as I believe this feature shouldn't really change it that way.
3. Glad it cleared things up.
4. The problem is simple a re-roll isn't worth the long rest tag as it could easily be worse or do nothing. I also really didn't want a short or long rest tag on it as that would really infringe on Indomitable(even if it is lackluster). This way people have a good card to play evoking the human spirit in the game without infringing too much on others.

Mr.Moron
2016-06-23, 03:01 PM
1. And how would low candle light look in that room, especially considering it isn't in color? You see dim light automatically inflicts disadvantage so we aren't talking about just "mood lighting" or anything not in direct sun. We are talking about an area where things are considerably more dark than light. People can be acclimated to darkness, in fact I can honestly say after a good 10 minutes I could see shapes, movement..etc in pure darkness. So, to me not it isn't that far of a stretch that humans who grew up in certain areas could see like this Darkvision, especially in a fantasy scenario.
2. Hmm, than what would be its other feature then? Humans almost always had extra skills or such choices in other editions.

I seem to be articulating my point poorly. I'll try to break it down.

Humans: Cannot see at all in pitch darkness.
Dark vision: Allows you to see in Pitch darkness.

Human vision works by light in the visible spectrum entering the eyeballs, firing our receptors and sending a singal to the brain. Dark vision works in the complete absence of any light. Snuff all light in the universe and place a fist-sized object cooled to near absolute zero in front of a human and they can't see it (assuming you know, somehow they aren't dead in this frigid energy dead existence somehow where there probably isn't air). A creature with Dark Vision can see it.

You can become acclimated to low levels of light: moonlight, candlelight, a dark room with the light creeping under the rame and so forth. Humans cannot see anything in total darkness, it is physiologically impossible. No light, nothing to stimulate the receptors in the eyeballs, no vision. A creature that can do so is fundamentally not human in a way that can't really be waived as "Fantasy" since human sets our baseline expectations for interacting with the world.


If the feature was called "Magic Blood: Dark Vision" and contained a line about some humans having powers inherited from somebody getting freaky with a dragon or angel or something that'd be a lot less jarring. Though at that point you're kind of stepping on the toes of Aasimar, Teifling etc..


EDIT:

2) They don't need one. Heoric Effort, +1 to 4 and a nice "Talent" is really all they need.

Amnoriath
2016-06-24, 06:45 AM
I seem to be articulating my point poorly. I'll try to break it down.

Humans: Cannot see at all in pitch darkness.
Dark vision: Allows you to see in Pitch darkness.

Human vision works by light in the visible spectrum entering the eyeballs, firing our receptors and sending a singal to the brain. Dark vision works in the complete absence of any light. Snuff all light in the universe and place a fist-sized object cooled to near absolute zero in front of a human and they can't see it (assuming you know, somehow they aren't dead in this frigid energy dead existence somehow where there probably isn't air). A creature with Dark Vision can see it.

You can become acclimated to low levels of light: moonlight, candlelight, a dark room with the light creeping under the rame and so forth. Humans cannot see anything in total darkness, it is physiologically impossible. No light, nothing to stimulate the receptors in the eyeballs, no vision. A creature that can do so is fundamentally not human in a way that can't really be waived as "Fantasy" since human sets our baseline expectations for interacting with the world.


If the feature was called "Magic Blood: Dark Vision" and contained a line about some humans having powers inherited from somebody getting freaky with a dragon or angel or something that'd be a lot less jarring. Though at that point you're kind of stepping on the toes of Aasimar, Teifling etc..


EDIT:

2) They don't need one. Heoric Effort, +1 to 4 and a nice "Talent" is really all they need.

1. You see here is the problem with that argument is the likely hood that there is no possible light, reflection,..etc is small and 5e doesn't really have a lighting system that could account for that detail. In fact I would argue that the most common instance where no light can get in is the Darkness spell and that is specifically waved as not being subject to Darkvision.
2. Eh, they kind of do, they lack a prime stat and they would only have two abilities of 1 and lower, and no extra languages or such.

This be Richard
2016-06-24, 10:12 AM
4. The problem is simple a re-roll isn't worth the long rest tag as it could easily be worse or do nothing. I also really didn't want a short or long rest tag on it as that would really infringe on Indomitable(even if it is lackluster). This way people have a good card to play evoking the human spirit in the game without infringing too much on others.
The worst case scenario with a re-roll is that you fail a second time. The worst case with a re-roll with advantage is also that you fail a second time. The difference is that the re-roll with advantage is significantly more likely to succeed than the re-roll without it... but I think, at that point, you're getting too strong (even for a long rest cooldown)

A single, one-die re-roll is like giving advantage to the original roll, but only needing to use the feature if the initial roll isn't good enough (which is thus better than a feature that just gives advantage to the original roll). A re-roll with advantage basically means you get to roll three times to see if you can succeed, and that's huge... especially given that you still don't have to tap the feature for that security if the original roll succeeds.

Indomitable operates on a long rest and doesn't give advantage. This feature, so long as it grants advantage to the re-roll, is objectively better than Indomitable.

Mr.Moron
2016-06-24, 10:14 AM
1. You see here is the problem with that argument is the likely hood that there is no possible light, reflection,..etc is small and 5e doesn't really have a lighting system that could account for that detail. In fact I would argue that the most common instance where no light can get in is the Darkness spell and that is specifically waved as not being subject to Darkvision.

2. Eh, they kind of do, they lack a prime stat and they would only have two abilities of 1 and lower, and no extra languages or such.

I think the most common instance would be if you're in an underground dungeon and your light sources go out, or if you're in an underground dungeon and trying to sneak around & use stealth without giving away your position by lighting a torch or spell. A lot of D&D takes place underground or in sealed masonry buildings where there really is no chance of human-capable light sources when they go out.

Though it's possible our expectations are just calibrated a bit too differently on this.

Amnoriath
2016-06-24, 06:37 PM
I think the most common instance would be if you're in an underground dungeon and your light sources go out, or if you're in an underground dungeon and trying to sneak around & use stealth without giving away your position by lighting a torch or spell. A lot of D&D takes place underground or in sealed masonry buildings where there really is no chance of human-capable light sources when they go out.

Though it's possible our expectations are just calibrated a bit too differently on this.

You see though there are a lot of factors that could still let in light even in the smallest degree in many of those situations. The point is though it is still a small degree. To me not only is depth an issue but luster of any kind, other outside sources..etc. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that instances where there is a little light possibly would be read as darkness in 5e's standards and to ban the option outright for those very specific instances especially if they have a proper back story seems criminal in comparison to that "Oh, I have it because I am a magical elf," I respect your reasons especially if someone would just choose just because, but I don't see why not when it fits the category I put it in, its balanced, and the player has a good reason for their character.

Amnoriath
2016-06-24, 06:41 PM
The worst case scenario with a re-roll is that you fail a second time. The worst case with a re-roll with advantage is also that you fail a second time. The difference is that the re-roll with advantage is significantly more likely to succeed than the re-roll without it... but I think, at that point, you're getting too strong (even for a long rest cooldown)

A single, one-die re-roll is like giving advantage to the original roll, but only needing to use the feature if the initial roll isn't good enough (which is thus better than a feature that just gives advantage to the original roll). A re-roll with advantage basically means you get to roll three times to see if you can succeed, and that's huge... especially given that you still don't have to tap the feature for that security if the original roll succeeds.

Indomitable operates on a long rest and doesn't give advantage. This feature, so long as it grants advantage to the re-roll, is objectively better than Indomitable.

1. But the point of worthwhile long rest features is to definitively make a good difference in an outcome.
2. No its not, "Beginning at 9th level, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll, and you canít use this feature again until you finish a long rest." As I said mine doesn't work against being incapacitated which accounts for 2 conditions other than itself and unconscious. I made sure that even a lackluster class feature had an advantage against this.

TheOldCrow
2016-06-27, 12:16 PM
Human

Ability Score Increase: Select four ability scores you may increase them by 1

I like this. I am running a campaign with no feats and using the standard array, and the standard human quite frankly sucks. That +1 to all stats forces a human to put their ASI into their lowest stats to ever see any benefit from it, and that's at the cost of not boosting their main stats like everyone else.

Your +1 to four different stats seems more equal in point buy value to the +2/+1 that most other races get than the +1/+1 of the variant human, too.


Able Learner: You gain proficiency in a skill or tool of your choice. Additionally training to be proficient in a tool or learn a language only costs half the time and resources.

I like this for humans. A bit of flavor, but I don't think it is too powerful.


Heroic Effort: When you would fail a save or on an attack roll as long as you aren't incapacitated you can reroll the die with advantage. Once this is used you must complete a long rest to use it again.

This one I really like. It gives humans some oomph, something that can translate into stories as being particularly human-like.


Talent: Striving effort and adaptable skills have lead to many a progeny among the human race creating a variety of combinations no other one could. You may choose one of the following abilities.

Arctic Recall: As long as you are moderately clothed you do not roll for exhaustion while in extreme cold. Additionally you can accurately recall anything you have seen or heard within the past month.

Brave: You have advantage on saves against being Frightened.

Darkvision: You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You canít discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

Dune Strider: As long as you are wearing light or no clothing you do not roll for exhaustion while in extreme heat. Additionally you can move stealthily at a normal pace.

Ocean Guide: You can hold your breath for double the amount of time(minimum 2 minutes) before needing air. Additionally you always know which way is north.

Polyglot: You may know 2 additional languages.

Stout Resilience: You have advantage on saving throws against poison, and you have resistance against poison damage.

War Born: You gain 2 weapon proficiencies of your choice


I like the ones tied to environment for the flavor. Things like Stout Resilience without an environmental explanation screams dwarf, not human. Not sure I like darkvision either, except that everything in the game seems to have darkvision anyways so why not humans too? But generally I think the Talent is a good way to round out your human, and I like that there being a list to choose from.

I think I will use this human for my campaign. Though I only have two players and they have already made their non-human characters, maybe next time someone will consider the human. We tend to have short campaigns. In the mean time I can use it for class-leveled human NPCs.

Amnoriath
2016-06-28, 07:33 AM
I like this. I am running a campaign with no feats and using the standard array, and the standard human quite frankly sucks. That +1 to all stats forces a human to put their ASI into their lowest stats to ever see any benefit from it, and that's at the cost of not boosting their main stats like everyone else.

Your +1 to four different stats seems more equal in point buy value to the +2/+1 that most other races get than the +1/+1 of the variant human, too.


I like the ones tied to environment for the flavor. Things like Stout Resilience without an environmental explanation screams dwarf, not human. Not sure I like darkvision either, except that everything in the game seems to have darkvision anyways so why not humans too? But generally I think the Talent is a good way to round out your human, and I like that there being a list to choose from.

I think I will use this human for my campaign. Though I only have two players and they have already made their non-human characters, maybe next time someone will consider the human. We tend to have short campaigns. In the mean time I can use it for class-leveled human NPCs.
1. Yeah, what's worse is that in stat array there is only 2 odd numbers the variant human then makes 4 odd numbers.
2. Well I felt like I had to stretch outside of environment a little bit and I should have renamed, but over all I am glad you like it.