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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Otherworldly Patron: The Serpent Gods [PEACH]



DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 08:12 PM
Earlier today when I was reading about the Yuan-Ti, I got sidetracked and started reading about the serpent gods that the Yuan-Ti made a pact with - I found them utterly fascinating, and was sad that they got relegated to the Great Old One patron. Wanting to give them something of there own, I decided to make them their very own Otherworldly Patron: The Serpent Gods (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Byowosnr)! :smallbiggrin:

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-25, 08:18 PM
At a glance, those features look fine - I would just recommend that you make the "Avatar of the Patron" a 12th level Invocation, not a 9th level one.

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 08:20 PM
At a glance, those features look fine - I would just recommend that you make the "Avatar of the Patron" a 12th level Invocation, not a 9th level one.

Hmmmmm...point taken.

JRDS
2016-06-25, 08:43 PM
So as I understand it, using Serpent of Entropy you can create a new snake every round, right? And because Serpent of Entropy has a duration of 1 minute, you can stack them. Thus allowing you to amass, especially in later levels, a little army of snakes. Which you can control. This is too powerful.

JRDS
2016-06-25, 08:45 PM
{{Scrubbed}}

That's a little rude/rough, don't you think? Plus, this is a homebrew board. Of course we're discussing additions to the games that we play. If you don't like the idea of someone adding stuff to 5e why come here?

Wryte
2016-06-25, 08:49 PM
{scrubbed}

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 08:52 PM
So as I understand it, using Serpent of Entropy you can create a new snake every round, right? And because Serpent of Entropy has a duration of 1 minute, you can stack them. Thus allowing you to amass, especially in later levels, a little army of snakes. Which you can control. This is too powerful.

Ummmm...that's not the intent. The intent is that you're maintaining that one snake...will add concentration. Thank you for catching that.

JRDS
2016-06-25, 08:58 PM
I've just realized that, and reported the post.

JRDS
2016-06-25, 09:00 PM
Ummmm...that's not the intent. The intent is that you're maintaining that one snake...will add concentration. Thank you for catching that.

Yeah that fixes it.

Nice job, I like the homebrew. :)

Tanuki Tales
2016-06-25, 09:12 PM
Keep your chin up OP; good homebrewing takes time and practice. :smallsmile:

Wryte
2016-06-25, 09:19 PM
Why the need to write Serpent of Entropy as a separate spell? Why not just leave it up to fluff that your Eldritch Blast takes the form of a spectral snake launching itself toward the target?

Serpent Ally seems redundant with Avatar of the Patron, unless you intend this patron to be heavily focused on summoning.

Emissary of the Serpent and Venom of the Serpent Gods are very difficult to read with that image under their text.

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 09:28 PM
Why the need to write Serpent of Entropy as a separate spell? Why not just leave it up to fluff that your Eldritch Blast takes the form of a spectral snake launching itself toward the target?

Ummmmm...I don't know...I guess I just like making stuff...


Serpent Ally seems redundant with Avatar of the Patron, unless you intend this patron to be heavily focused on summoning.

Avatar of the Patron is a generic Eldritch Invocation intended for all patrons.


Emissary of the Serpent and Venom of the Serpent Gods are very difficult to read with that image under their text.

If you're not using Google Chrome it does that - the Homebrewery doesn't like browsers that aren't Chrome. Sorry :/

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 09:51 PM
I have tweaked serpent of entropy.

JRDS
2016-06-25, 10:10 PM
I have tweaked serpent of entropy.

Well the way it is currently, you're just doing 1d8 force damage. You say "As an action on your turn you may command the serpent to move within the range of the spell and make an attack." but because the spell lasts 1 round, the snake isn't lasting long enough to do anything?

Here's my suggestion. Make it concentration again, and leave it doing 1d8 force damage. Then, allow it to move, as your action, a certain range (say 60 ft for example) even outside the spell's cast range, and then make an attack. That makes it more unique.

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 10:12 PM
Well the way it is currently, you're just doing 1d8 force damage. You say "As an action on your turn you may command the serpent to move within the range of the spell and make an attack." but because the spell lasts 1 round, the snake isn't lasting long enough to do anything?

Here's my suggestion. Make it concentration again, and leave it doing 1d8 force damage. Then, allow it to move, as your action, a certain range (say 60 ft for example) even outside the spell's cast range, and then make an attack. That makes it more unique.

I dropped it to 1d8 force damage, and I'm allowing the serpent to make opportunity attacks - then vanishes at the end of the round. I don't want to make it Concentration, because then it's competing with features later... And for it to be better than them it would have to be better than a cantrip should be - and if you're concentrating on those other features, you're gonna end up casting EB, and why would you want to waste two of your cantrips to essentially do the same thing? :smalltongue:

JRDS
2016-06-25, 10:22 PM
Ah I didn't catch that line at the end of the second paragraph. My apologies.

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 10:23 PM
Ah I didn't catch that line at the end of the second paragraph. My apologies.

No worries ^_^

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 10:25 PM
Is it safe to assume that the features are balanced since no one's freaked out about any of them?

JRDS
2016-06-25, 10:28 PM
I think this is good. Might even point it out to my friend that's playing a warlock.

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 10:29 PM
I think this is good. Might even point it out to my friend that's playing a warlock.

Thank you, that's high praise ^_^

You'll have to let me know what it's like in actual play :smallsmile:

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-25, 11:02 PM
Is it safe to assume that the features are balanced since no one's freaked out about any of them?

Yup! I'm pretty sure it's okay :smallbiggrin:

DracoKnight
2016-06-25, 11:03 PM
Yup! I'm pretty sure it's okay :smallbiggrin:

Coolio ^_^

Spiriah
2016-06-26, 12:05 AM
Only issue I can see is that Serpent of Entropy could potentially do some pretty crazy opportunity attack damage - stack four serpents around one creature, and if it tries to move without disengaging, it takes four AoOs at no reaction cost to either you or the serpents. I'd potentially put some limit on that, but otherwise I like this. Cool concept!

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 12:41 AM
Only issue I can see is that Serpent of Entropy could potentially do some pretty crazy opportunity attack damage - stack four serpents around one creature, and if it tries to move without disengaging, it takes four AoOs at no reaction cost to either you or the serpents. I'd potentially put some limit on that, but otherwise I like this. Cool concept!

That's not until 17th level, though, and at that point, 4d8's not incredibly insane...unless I'm mistaken (which happens more frequently than I'd like to admit :smalltongue:)

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 12:56 AM
{{Scrubbed}}.

I've been fairly patient - going so far as to ignore you - and honestly I've been amused by how trolly you've been. Call me a dumbass again, and I will flag you.

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 12:59 AM
{{Scrubbed}}

I've reported you. I kindly request that you be polite in my threads in the future. I will not quit homebrewing, so I assume I will continue to hear from you. Please, either cease commenting, or do so politely.

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 01:12 AM
{{Scrubbed}}.

You are apparently tormented and confused individual to think that it's okay to wish rape upon someone. I have multiple close friends who were raped, and I am extremely offended by your notion that it is okay joke about people getting raped.

khadgar567
2016-06-26, 01:36 AM
You are apparently tormented and confused individual to think that it's okay to wish rape upon someone. I have multiple close friends who were raped, and I am extremely offended by your notion that it is okay joke about people getting raped.
sorry to here that dracoknight by the way don't mind the village idiot keep up good work

TundraBuccaneer
2016-06-26, 05:04 AM
Aren't you worried about the the high CR creatures of the Avatar of the Patron invocation? Especially with allot of them having spells(although that might have just been the phoenix and unicorn).

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 05:28 AM
Aren't you worried about the the high CR creatures of the Avatar of the Patron invocation? Especially with allot of them having spells(although that might have just been the phoenix and unicorn).

I'm not personally worried about it - as pact of the blade will likely have powerful magic weapons at this point, and pact of the tome has access to all of ritual casting. 12th level is in the 3rd tier of play, where PCs are likely saving whole regions or continents.

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 01:23 PM
Are there any further thoughts?

Spiriah
2016-06-26, 01:54 PM
That's not until 17th level, though, and at that point, 4d8's not incredibly insane...unless I'm mistaken (which happens more frequently than I'd like to admit :smalltongue:)
I mean, even at earlier levels, it outdamages any opportunity attack besides people with War Caster, and it's not as dependent on positioning (they don't have to leave a space adjacent to you, just the snakes). Plus, as written, the snakes can make infinite opportunity attacks if more than one enemy moves away from them. I dunno if that's a huge concern, but maybe say they can each only make one attack of opportunity per round? Not sure.

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 04:16 PM
I mean, even at earlier levels, it outdamages any opportunity attack besides people with War Caster, and it's not as dependent on positioning (they don't have to leave a space adjacent to you, just the snakes). Plus, as written, the snakes can make infinite opportunity attacks if more than one enemy moves away from them. I dunno if that's a huge concern, but maybe
say they can each only make one attack of opportunity per round? Not sure.

I will limit it to 1 for the round, giving each serpent a reaction.

Elodin
2016-06-26, 07:27 PM
As a person who enjoys playing Warlocks, I have to say that the design and flavour of this is simply awesome. :D I wish the vanilla 5e had something like this.

DracoKnight
2016-06-26, 08:47 PM
As a person who enjoys playing Warlocks, I have to say that the design and flavour of this is simply awesome. :D I wish the vanilla 5e had something like this.

From one warlock-lover to another, that's the highest praise that I could ever ask for ^_^

Final Hyena
2016-06-27, 07:27 AM
Do the serpents from Serpent of Entropy control areas? By that I mean can you move through their space?


These serpents may expend their reaction to make opportunity attacks when a creature leaves their reach.
The wording makes it sound like each serpent has a reaction which is kind of strong.

Belac93
2016-06-27, 09:04 AM
I quite like this subclass. The the critique I have is that the spots covered by the snake person are a little hard to see, it might be easier if it was on the 2nd or 3rd page.

Also, don't forget to grab your pitchfork :smalltongue:

DracoKnight
2016-06-27, 11:22 AM
Do the serpents from Serpent of Entropy control areas? By that I mean can you move through their space?


The wording makes it sound like each serpent has a reaction which is kind of strong.

It is the case that they each have a reaction, which (damage-wise) is on par with the melee cantrips.

EDIT: I'm probably going to scrap the cantrip, and turn it into an Eldritch Invocation that augments your Eldritch Blast.

DracoKnight
2016-06-27, 11:26 AM
I quite like this subclass. The the critique I have is that the spots covered by the snake person are a little hard to see, it might be easier if it was on the 2nd or 3rd page.

I'm glad you like it :smallbiggrin:

Ah, yes. That's been the complaint of people who aren't using chrome to view this. The Homebrewery isn't optimized for other browsers, so you have my apologies.


Also, don't forget to grab your pitchfork :smalltongue:

Lolz

DracoKnight
2016-06-27, 12:44 PM
Here is my proposed Eldritch Invocation that will replace the Serpent of Entropy cantrip:

Serpent of Entropy
Prerequisite: The Serpent Gods Otherworldly Patron

When you can Eldritch Blast, you may use a bonus action to transmute its energy changing the bolt into a Large serpent. When you do so the duration of Eldritch Blast becomes concentration, up to 1 minute. You may direct this serpent to move anywhere within the range of the spell, and you make a ranged spell attack against any creature you direct it to attack. Any creature that ends their turn in a space occupied by the serpent takes 1d6 force damage.

When you gain more bolts at higher levels, you may transmute transmute every bolt you generate as a bonus action, when you use this invocation.

EDIT: this remove the serpents' ability to make opportunity attacks, and instead gives them a defined size with a clause about force damage taken if a creature ends a turn on their space. It also accomplishes the refluffing of Eldritch Blast that was suggested, while maintaining the flavor I was going for when this was a cantrip.

And instead of taxing the Warlocks' very limited cantrip selection, this taps into the slightly broader resource of the Eldritch Invocations, and prevents there being an Eldritch Blast clone that got way too convoluted in preventing it from causing problems.

GandalfTheWhite
2016-06-27, 12:52 PM
Here is my proposed Eldritch Invocation that will replace the Serpent of Entropy cantrip:

Serpent of Entropy
Prerequisite: The Serpent Gods Otherworldly Patron

When you can Eldritch Blast, you may use a bonus action to transmute its energy changing the bolt into a Large serpent. When you do so the duration of Eldritch Blast becomes concentration, up to 1 minute. You may direct this serpent to move anywhere within the range of the spell, and you make a ranged spell attack against any creature you direct it to attack. Any creature that ends their turn in a space occupied by the serpent takes 1d6 force damage.

When you gain more bolts at higher levels, you may transmute transmute every bolt you generate as a bonus action, when you use this invocation.

EDIT: this remove the serpents' ability to make opportunity attacks, and instead gives them a defined size with a clause about force damage taken if a creature ends a turn on their space. It also accomplishes the refluffing of Eldritch Blast that was suggested, while maintaining the flavor I was going for when this was a cantrip.

And instead of taxing the Warlocks' very limited cantrip selection, this taps into the slightly broader resource of the Eldritch Invocations, and prevents there being an Eldritch Blast clone that got way too convoluted in preventing it from causing problems.

I feel like this is more elegant design-wise.

khadgar567
2016-06-27, 01:21 PM
Here is my proposed Eldritch Invocation that will replace the Serpent of Entropy cantrip:

Serpent of Entropy
Prerequisite: The Serpent Gods Otherworldly Patron

When you can Eldritch Blast, you may use a bonus action to transmute its energy changing the bolt into a Large serpent. When you do so the duration of Eldritch Blast becomes concentration, up to 1 minute. You may direct this serpent to move anywhere within the range of the spell, and you make a ranged spell attack against any creature you direct it to attack. Any creature that ends their turn in a space occupied by the serpent takes 1d6 force damage.

When you gain more bolts at higher levels, you may transmute every bolt you generate as a bonus action, when you use this invocation.

EDIT: this remove the serpents' ability to make opportunity attacks, and instead gives them a defined size with a clause about force damage taken if a creature ends a turn on their space. It also accomplishes the refluffing of Eldritch Blast that was suggested, while maintaining the flavor I was going for when this was a cantrip.

And instead of taxing the Warlocks' very limited cantrip selection, this taps into the slightly broader resource of the Eldritch Invocations, and prevents there being an Eldritch Blast clone that got way too convoluted in preventing it from causing problems.
here is more under stand able version

DracoKnight
2016-06-27, 02:27 PM
here is more under stand able version

Excellent ^_^

DracoKnight
2016-06-27, 04:52 PM
I'm not personally worried about it - as pact of the blade will likely have powerful magic weapons at this point, and pact of the tome has access to all of ritual casting. 12th level is in the 3rd tier of play, where PCs are likely saving whole regions or continents.

If I'm wrong, someone let me know, please :smallbiggrin:

Flashy
2016-06-27, 06:48 PM
Excellent homebrew as always. My only criticisms are complete nitpicks.


I don't really love Phantasmal Killer as a 4th level spell option? It kinda works with the whole single deadly blow concept, but I'd rather see Dominate Beast just because I think it plays really effectively with the hypnotism angle sometimes associated with venomous snakes.
Under the Expanded Spell List feature the Serpent Gods currently let you chose from an axpended spell list, rather than an expanded list.



If I'm wrong, someone let me know, please :smallbiggrin:

I don't think you're wrong. It's technically equivalent to an extra 7th level spell slot once per day (Conjure Celestial), but since all the Ladon can do is grapple one creature and bite things I doubt it's really as good as Conjure Celestial. The DMG spell creation guidelines peg Hurl Through Hell as equivalent to a 6th level spell, so this is proooobably fine.

DracoKnight
2016-06-27, 07:06 PM
Excellent homebrew as always. My only criticisms are complete nitpicks.


I don't really love Phantasmal Killer as a 4th level spell option? It kinda works with the whole single deadly blow concept, but I'd rather see Dominate Beast just because I think it plays really effectively with the hypnotism angle sometimes associated with venomous snakes.
Under the Expanded Spell List feature the Serpent Gods currently let you chose from an axpended spell list, rather than an expanded list.


I will consider that spell change :smallsmile:
And thank you for catching that typo!


I don't think you're wrong. It's technically equivalent to an extra 7th level spell slot once per day (Conjure Celestial), but since all the Ladon can do is grapple one creature and bite things I doubt it's really as good as Conjure Celestial. The DMG spell creation guidelines peg Hurl Through Hell as equivalent to a 6th level spell, so this is proooobably fine.

I was referencing the Eldritch Invocation "Avatar of the Patron."

Flashy
2016-06-27, 07:30 PM
I was referencing the Eldritch Invocation "Avatar of the Patron."

Oh, derp. Sorry.

I think the premise is fine, but I'm uncomfortable with the options that are above CR 3 (particularly the Unicorn). I'd go with a Gold Dragon Wyrmling over a Red Dragon Wyrmling for the dragon, a Green Hag over the Unicorn for Archfey, and a Yuan-Ti Malison over the Couatl for Serpent Gods.

DracoKnight
2016-06-28, 10:18 AM
Oh, derp. Sorry.

I think the premise is fine, but I'm uncomfortable with the options that are above CR 3 (particularly the Unicorn). I'd go with a Gold Dragon Wyrmling over a Red Dragon Wyrmling for the dragon, a Green Hag over the Unicorn for Archfey, and a Yuan-Ti Malison over the Couatl for Serpent Gods.

Hmmmmm....that might be a fair assessment...will have to run some numbers...

DracoKnight
2016-06-28, 12:24 PM
Looking for a minor benefit that could be granted at 1st level - something roughly equivalent to +1 HP, without granting +1 HP, since I don't want to rip off the Dragon Sorcerer...

EDIT: or is speaking to snakes enough?

EDIT: Never mind, I figured it out.

DracoKnight
2016-08-15, 07:46 PM
Getting ready to play this in a campaign, will let the forum know how the playtest goes :smallsmile: