Crazy EVIL cult

[Airo Valeth]

Hello everyone

I've been on this forum for a while, but rarely post anything here. As I enjoy reading words of wisdom from you guys, yet I'm too young and dumb to offer any.
Anyway, nice to meet you all.:smalltongue:

My question here today is : Why would people like to join in some crazy/evil/alien cult that the sole purpose of the cult is to destroy the world/kill all human/No coffee during break time?

Well today as I was trying to create some cults that worship ancient evil deities , something like a Cthulhu cult. I was like:" So this cult is for people to worship a Giant Winged Octopus-head Man, who's going to swallow their soul once he's awake from his dead-like slumber... Wait... Why would I worship someone's going to kill me? Why should I help it awake anyway?"

There are some evil deity exist, like the Spider Queen, who will grant you power and prestige if you make her happy. There's sure a reason to join this kind of cult. But a God who'd crush you into pieces so tiny that not even bacteria can see if you make him happy? Why would you join?

Maybe I'm just thinking too much while I'm creating stuff, but I want my cults to be somewhat believable, not just "EVIL EVIL KILL KILL KILL YEAH COOL".

Please enlighten me O Monsters in the Playground:smallwink:
Thanks in Advance

[rollfrenzy]

First of all, nobody is too young to offer advice or intelligent discussion. in fact it's often nice for the fresh perspective.

As for your question, there are a couple reasons.

1. They think that the coming of EVIL is inevitable and they hope to gain either some power when the bad stuff hits the fan or at least a quick death.

2. They are genuinely crazy.

3. They don't really think it will work, and are just messing around and got in too deep.

4. They are being brainwashed by someon into being a sacrifice.

[Morty]

When I was planning a (non-D&D) session with such cult involved, that was indeed Cthulhu-inspired, I used something like that: the cult members were citizens of small, once prosperous but now completely impoverished village. The villagers were so desperate that a captain of city guard convinced them that god they were worshipping before is lie and priests' trick, and he can show them new gods, who will take care of them. Those "gods" were in fact centuries-old powerful dwellers of the seas, and they slowly consumed villagers' souls. Players were supposed to clean up this mess.
Conclusion: cultists don't have to know they're worshipping evil, destructive gods. They may be tricked to belive that diety they're worshipping is benevolent and will grant them prosperity.

[Starsinger]

Two of the most common reasons for worshiping people like Vecna or Cthulu are Insanity and Power. Insanity doesn't really need much more than that. You're crazy, and devoted to your tentacle faced soul-eater. Power, on the other hand, is easy to understand, but not as simple a fix as insanity.

Evil worship is a stock source of power in fantasy. Look at the Dark Side of the Force. Sith are strong and dangerous because they're evil. Take Faustus, he sold his soul for power. Evil is notorious for giving power to people at the cost of their souls, the blood of a thousand babies, kicking puppies, that sort of thing.

[Dairun Cates]

All of the above, and...

5. Some cultists embrace darkness and nonexistence as a higher state of being. Nothingness is their heaven. *See #3*

6. They hate society more than they like living.

7. Ego at being the person that destroyed the world, and you can never top it because the world will be dead.

8. They're really corrupt officials trying to gain power in an organization and secretly hope they never reach their goal so they can continue to control their minions.

EDIT: Oh, and Teenage rebellion. Can't forget that.

[SpiderBrigade]

EDIT: Wow, 500 ninjas were here.

Well, you may have noticed that the more Chtulhu-esque cults tend to have a lot of insane members. They did a little too much research into forbidden lore, and it snapped their mind in two. Now they think summoning Big C. is a really great idea.

There's also the notion that the Ancient Elder Evil™ resurfacing is inevitable anyway, and if you help him along he might eat you first in a quick and permanent way, rather than corrupting your mind and body over a period of years in unutterable agony.

The third point, especially for the Cthulhu cult as presented in the story, is that the people doing the worshiping aren't thinking about it that hard. You will notice that in the original tale the cults are all degenerate tribal groups or in some way "primitive" (Yeah H.P. Lovecraft was a huge racist) rather than learned men making a rational decision to bring him into the world.

A better example might be the cult of Dagon from The Shadow over Innsmouth. Those guys are getting a lot in return - fish, gold, power, etc. And all they have to do is interbreed with grotesque fish people.

[DomarSaul]

IRL, cults (as sociology thinks of them) tend to share certain characteristics. They are generally headed by charismatic leader with a forceful personality. The cult leader inspires confidence and trust in their flock, granting them a sense of security and belonging. Cult recuiters tend to target people who already feel isolated and lost.

In the 70's, college students away from home for the first time were often invited to dinners, which lead to weekend seminars, which lead to week-long retreats. A large number of the attendees would be plants already in the cult, who showed extreme enthusiasm and positive attitudes to everything presented by the leaders, and surround any guests with a warm, welcoming environment.

Once nominal membership is established through a gradual series of increasing commitments, a group will work to limit their member's attachments and connections to the outside, as this can conflict with loyalty to the group. Ideally, ties are cut until cult membership is the only thing a member has left.

When a person has already invested themself so far, and is in an environment where dissent and questioning are met with punishment or ridicule, they have a strong motivation to believe in the group leader, to convince themself that they have made the right choice. Bit by bit, a person's basic world-view can be dramatically altered; the cost of resistance is too high for them to balk at any particular little step.

So, that could explain how the followers join the cult. The leader, meanwhile, tends to be motivation by an egomaniacal pursuit of power and glory... or, in Call of Cthulhu, the nightmarish visions and dread promises of the Old Ones.

[Xuincherguixe]

You can also go in the "Cult of Thuggee" direction. I don't know how accurate this is but you don't need to be accurate in D&D anyways :P

But, the people in the cult worshipped Kali, goddess of death. The possessions on the person they take after killing them are seen as the Goddess Kali rewarding them. In the end this is really just a more physical/tangible form of power, but it might be refreshing to see a cult that's based around a concept like that rather then the cliche human sacrifice for better spells thing.

A better question than why do people join evil cults, is why does anyone choose to be evil in D&D? Not a lot of reward for it.


Still, your best bet is probably with a being that rewards people for their assistance to evil. It should be general enough that even non spell casters could benefit. Money works well for many reasons (not least of that it assigns a value to human life). Non spell casters could still get 'magic' I suppose, but many cultists probably are not the sort of people that are likely to appreciate magics strengths.

Or, to go in another direction maybe the evil thing can offer some very specific rewards. Good food, beautiful women (or men, or whatever the tastes may be) that sort of thing. However it could be that there is a not typical cultist that doesn't care for such passable, tangible things. Even the ability to manipulate nature may amount to not much. It could be that the Cultist wants to just be appreciated. Maybe they want to be an artist but they have no creativity.

A dark god that smashes writers block.



But yeah, in my game demon worship boils down to power worship. You don't give sacrifices to Zbyghs-GyunadrjfIWouldLikeToBuyAVowel (Shock! Spell check offers no suggestions!) because you think he's all together great guy and you figure he shouldn't have to go hungry, and he only eats human souls for some reason. You throw those still beating hearts into that volcano because he's going to give you something. Like tell you how to make iron weapons. Or inflict indescribable horrors upon your enemies.

Some would make offerings out of fear, but that boils down to 'power' too. The thing holds power over you. The power worship isn't just about you getting stronger (though that may well be all it amounts to for many), but those above you as well.


Hope that all helps.

[Dhavaer]

They could simply have been lied to. The cultists of Tharizdun are told that when their god is freed they will be rewarded with everything society has denied them.

[Jannex]

A variant on Dairun Cates's #5:

They believe that existence is corrupt/evil/suffering/hell, and that by ending the world, they will be doing everyone a favor.

I actually had a concept for an Abyssal Exalted once that went along similar lines; I took the idea of "desire is suffering" and warped and twisted it until I got this:

1. To desire is to suffer.
2. To exist is to desire.
3. The end of existence is the end of suffering.
4. Oblivion is peace.

Her highest Virtue was actually Compassion. It was a truly twisted concept, and I've never gotten to play her yet. Fun stuff, though. *shudder*

[Kizara]

A variant on Dairun Cates's #5:

They believe that existence is corrupt/evil/suffering/hell, and that by ending the world, they will be doing everyone a favor.

I actually had a concept for an Abyssal Exalted once that went along similar lines; I took the idea of "desire is suffering" and warped and twisted it until I got this:

1. To desire is to suffer.
2. To exist is to desire.
3. The end of existence is the end of suffering.
4. Oblivion is peace.

Her highest Virtue was actually Compassion. It was a truly twisted concept, and I've never gotten to play her yet. Fun stuff, though. *shudder*

That is brilliant, and also reminds me of my most twisted ideas.
Make sure you find a group both mature enough to handle and appreciate it, or you will find it unsatisfying.

[Tor the Fallen]

If you look at Lovecraft's stories, there was a lot of overt racism involved with Cthulhu worship.

That aside, the most attractive nature of Dark and Evil powers is their rewards in the here and now. Wealth, power, babes, knowledge. All it costs is your soul, your sanity, some blood (not yours!).

Why did Faustus sell his soul?
Cause the good doctor wanted it all.

[Abbott]

Yes, power, fear and trickery. It is strangely alluring to hear that YOU are chosen, that YOU have a place in the world, that YOU are one of the rare few that stand exalted above the grey mass of everyone else. Then, eventually, you can get people to agree with anything.

As for those cults who grants rewards and boons, that's simple. Sometimes desire trumps morals and there ya go. Once you're in, it's probably hard to get out as well so you might as well enjoy the ride.

However, as for gods who simply promise destruction, well, for starters, there's always it's inevitable and at least I'll be granted a swift death scenario. However, as most have already said, sometimes people want to "purify" the world or simply hate it so much they don't care if they die as long as everyone else does. One of these is desperation but the other two are clearly madness, which can explain alot.

[Tallis]

The cultists could be sacrificing virgins to appease a god that terrifies them. Maybe they think it could cross over any time it wants and they're holding it off by doing this.
As has been mentioned by a few people, they might actually believe thjat the world deserves to be destroyed.
A fallen paladin who blames the world for his fall and seeks to destroy it to eliminate the evil inherent in the world could make a greta cult leader.

[Dairun Cates]

A variant on Dairun Cates's #5:

They believe that existence is corrupt/evil/suffering/hell, and that by ending the world, they will be doing everyone a favor.

I actually had a concept for an Abyssal Exalted once that went along similar lines; I took the idea of "desire is suffering" and warped and twisted it until I got this:

1. To desire is to suffer.
2. To exist is to desire.
3. The end of existence is the end of suffering.
4. Oblivion is peace.

Her highest Virtue was actually Compassion. It was a truly twisted concept, and I've never gotten to play her yet. Fun stuff, though. *shudder*

Ooooh. I made a good enough point to get a foot-note. Yay me.

[Duke Malagigi]

The idea that "the universe is corrupt and irredeemable" is the same concept behind the Dicefreaks' interpretation of Apollyon, so I'd say that could work as a basis for a particularly self-righteous Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil cult.

[Illiterate Scribe]

I would recommend having a look at Stanley Milgram's most famous experiment.

[mikeejimbo]

Cthulhu drives you MAD! MAD I SAY!

[Murderous Hobo]

I think that the best way to make an evil cult is to let them be right or at least make their position and actions seem understandable, add a certain amount of moral ambiguity so people will doubt if they are doing the right thing.

Example:

A world has been created by several "A gods" and to make this possible they have sacreficed their body and being to this world, only to life on as echo's of their former selves, not powerless but not quite like gods either.
Another group of "B gods" chose not to take part in this creation, for obvious reasons they did not want to lose their body and being to a world that they could take from anyway. We'll call these gods Demons because they were obviously selfish.

Most people worship the gods of their world as they have ancestral myths going back and detailing their "A gods" and their selfless sacrifice. The mystics can also still observe patterns of the "A gods" in the world and see how these are strengthened through worship.

Now one of the Demons talks to a Mystic and tells him that what the Mystic has always thought of as gods, are not truly gods but just the after images of the dead "A gods".
The Mystic realizes that the Demon is speaking the truth and that what he had always thought of as Demons are no different from his "A gods", except that his "A gods" are dead.

He spreads his discovery and gains many followers. This of course causes him and his followers to be prosecuted by the established powers, they do not want any sort of Demon worship as the Demons are capricious gods who's whims are unstable.
Soon there is an exodus and the Mystic and his followers leave for another place. Under the tutelage of these Demons he and his followers grow strong and well adapted to the nomadic life. The Demons teach the Mystic the skills to be ruthless against others for the good of his own people.

Now clearly, despite their limited existence the "A gods" are good and often Lawful as they are selfless and constantly provide the amount of order needed to maintain existence.
The Demons are Evil and Chaotic as they are selfish and have no inhibitions with regards to doing what must be done.

This makes the Mystic and his followers evil cultist without being unlikeable himself. He merely stood up for the truth and was forced to fight for his life.

Morally, the Mystic and his cultist are also completely right, their morals are backed up by the only living "B gods" in existence, theologically speaking the only authority on what actually is the right thing.
Quite unlike the followers of the "A gods", who as mortal being have decided to make up morality with arbitrary idea's based on what they remember their gods to be.
Ofcourse the followers of the "A god" reason that if the world is made out of gods, then those gods are the only ones who should have a say of what happens in their plane.


Okay, that got way out of control for a first post. :smalleek:

[Green Bean]

This (http://www.hellblazer.com/media/chick-cthulu.html) seems like a pretty good reason to me.

My more serious answer is that most of the people in the cult would be misguided. In most cults, there will be one or two people who legitimately want the world to end. The rest may not know the magnitude of what they're doing, or have the foolish notion that they can bargain with whatever forces they are dealing with. The ones who actually want to destroy the world might not even be the ones in charge; crazed nihilists are generally easy to lead.

[puppyavenger]

mind if I yoink that?

[Green Bean]

mind if I yoink that?

Well, it's not actually my work, so I can't answer that.

*looks at own previous post*

Whoops, I seem to be implying that I made it. I'd better edit it.

[Jannex]

Another option that just occured to me is that the cultists could be led to believe (either accurately or by deception on the part of the evil god they're worshipping) that, after the old, corrupt world has been destroyed, the faithful cultists will be preserved, and set up as gods/rulers/rockstars in the new world that will follow. A fun twist, I think.

[Dairun Cates]

Another option that just occured to me is that the cultists could be led to believe (either accurately or by deception on the part of the evil god they're worshipping) that, after the old, corrupt world has been destroyed, the faithful cultists will be preserved, and set up as gods/rulers/rockstars in the new world that will follow. A fun twist, I think.

So... You just described metal fans?

[Haikiah]

"If I summon this elder god, he'll be sooooo happy with me, I'm sure he'll give me everything I want!"
"Hello Elder G---- OH GOD! MY FACE! ARGH! ARGH!"




Evil Cultists generally are the first to die from that which they summon.
Never make assumptions. They make an ass out of u and your mptions.

[Xuincherguixe]

So... You just described metal fans?

Hey! I resemble that remark!

[Fhaolan]

Another option that just occured to me is that the cultists could be led to believe (either accurately or by deception on the part of the evil god they're worshipping) that, after the old, corrupt world has been destroyed, the faithful cultists will be preserved, and set up as gods/rulers/rockstars in the new world that will follow. A fun twist, I think.

I've run into this one before in some cultists I met in RL. (Yes, I meet actual cultists on occasion. I have the weirdest life sometimes.) The cultists don't necessarily beleive that the world-destorying evil will destroy the world in total. It will 'remake the world in it's own image', and will, out of some form of gratitude, place the cultists as the rulers of this new world.

This appears to be based in the idea that most people just can't comprehend something that would destroy all existance for no apparant reason. Since there's no apparant reason, the Evil God must not be after the complete destruction of everything. It will just destroy the bits that 'need' destroying, and replace it with something better.

[blackout]

"Hey, let's summon and worship a monster-god!"
"OK! If we do, we'll get lots of cool stuff!"
"YAY, we summoned him-HOLY CRAP! HOLY ****! HE'S EATING MY EYEBALLS! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! HOW IS IT DISSOLVING MY SKELETON WITH IT'S EYEBALLS!?"
"I CAN'T RUN! I'M SO SCARED I CAN'T MOVE!"

Remember kids: Don't listen to cultists. Their just completely nutso.

[CASTLEMIKE]

In a DMG demographic based world of magic comprised of 90% commoners generally with 1 or 2 levels earning around 1 silver piece a day and about 1 Adept per 200 people. I like the power or reward mechanic based on the Fiend Folio Fiend of Blasphemy and Fiend of Corruption PRCs favoring Demi-Powers over other powers as they would seem to gain the most benefit according to Dieties and Demigods and worshipper base of a few hundred to a few thousand.

Taking a Blood Oath will grant the cultist an in game mechanic like Psychic Reformation and convert 1 - 4 NPC levels (commonly Commoner) to Adept with a useful low level Domain like Commerce (+10 to weekly Profession income check) to the NPC along with a one step alignment change and the choice of a single extra known level one spell (Magecraft for crafters) or Charm Person for pursuing romantic pursuits. (Getting two or more Adept levels gets the being a useful freebie familiar like a Raven for spying, talking and the appraise bonus or a Hawk for scouting and hunting). I like this because the cultist has to pray to the being granting the spells for one hour a day (Part of the old belief has power and helps sustain the Demi-Power).

The Fiend of Blasmephy PRC can grant a Wish usually for a Soul Bargain but since it has to pay for the experience that seems pretty pricey so I'd change it to a Pyschic Reformation for 1 - 4 NPC levels to Adept or PC levels and a Limited Wish for various purposes.

Raising a dead Loved One (Child, Grandchild, Spouse or Sibling) with a Limited Wish Reincarnation variant in own original race closely resembling former persona and majority of old memories.

A permanent charm person on other being to facilitate a love type marraige.

At 1 silver piece a day obtaining 1,500 GP for your soul might be considered a excellent bargain at the time for someone of limited means since it would normally take 4 decades or so to earn that amount before daily living expenses which wouldn't leave a lot for saving.

Healing a terrible permanent wound like a missing arm or leg for a warrior or craftsman.

[SpiderBrigade]

I've run into this one before in some cultists I met in RL. (Yes, I meet actual cultists on occasion. I have the weirdest life sometimes.) The cultists don't necessarily beleive that the world-destorying evil will destroy the world in total. It will 'remake the world in it's own image', and will, out of some form of gratitude, place the cultists as the rulers of this new world.Wait, so not only have you met some cultists, you've met some who believe in and worship "world-destroying evil?" I want to know more!

[Attilargh]

Tips for the Evil Henchman (http://www.sff.net/paradise/overlord.html#aux_bad). The cultist section begins from tip number 97.

[Fhaolan]

Wait, so not only have you met some cultists, you've met some who believe in and worship "world-destroying evil?" I want to know more!

Yep. I've met at least two different groups of cultists that fall into that category. They, of course, didn't believe it was evil. They truely believed that the entity would destroy the universe, and create a paradise specifically for them because they went through the effort of worshiping this entity. One of the groups mentioned something about unbelievers being their slaves for all eternity. I can't really say more on this forum without breaking the rules, unfortunately.

[Airo Valeth]

Thanks guys for the really useful insights.
Now I have ideas to create my evil cult, in fact, more than one evil cults!


Wow... Seriously... Real world world-destroying cults?that's eyes-opening...

[blackout]

:smalleek: Oooh boy.

[MegasquidMan]

Heh! Apparently, I wasn't the only one who believed that Gods who intended to destroy the universe didn't actually welcome complete oblivion. It reminds me of the comic skit someone did with Tharizdun...

"CONGRATULATIONS! YOU HAVE DESTROYED EXISTANCE!!... Now what?"

I makes MORE sense to destory what needs to be destoryed, or, rather unmake something, and remake it in a more ideal form.

I KNEW it! And now my thoughts are backed up even, moreso.

[bosssmiley]

My question here today is : Why would people like to join in some crazy/evil/alien cult that the sole purpose of the cult is to destroy the world/kill all human/No coffee during break time?

Well today as I was trying to create some cults that worship ancient evil deities , something like a Cthulhu cult. I was like:" So this cult is for people to worship a Giant Winged Octopus-head Man, who's going to swallow their soul once he's awake from his dead-like slumber... Wait... Why would I worship someone's going to kill me? Why should I help it awake anyway?"

"Worshippers of Great Cthulhu will be stepped on and eaten last."
- Cthulhu for President website

:smallwink:


There are some evil deity exist, like the Spider Queen, who will grant you power and prestige if you make her happy. There's sure a reason to join this kind of cult. But a God who'd crush you into pieces so tiny that not even bacteria can see if you make him happy? Why would you join?

Maybe I'm just thinking too much while I'm creating stuff, but I want my cults to be somewhat believable, not just "EVIL EVIL KILL KILL KILL YEAH COOL".

Why convert to insane cultistism?

Revenge against the world
In over your inept human head
Sheer nihilism (like the Doomguard in "Planescape")
Chicks dig the robe/the tentacles/bad boys with wavey-bladed knifes
Insane belief that the world will be better, or perhaps even belongs, under the cloven heel/squamous fin/rugose tentacle of the Elder Evils
A ~really~ bad hangover
*meh*

[jamroar]

Heh! Apparently, I wasn't the only one who believed that Gods who intended to destroy the universe didn't actually welcome complete oblivion. It reminds me of the comic skit someone did with Tharizdun...

"CONGRATULATIONS! YOU HAVE DESTROYED EXISTANCE!!... Now what?"


Tharizdun: "FINALLY! I can't believe the amount of !@#$ a multiverse destroying incarnation of entropy has to go through in order to get a decent aeons' rest in peace and quiet!"

[MegasquidMan]

Maybe, But I remember that in the beginning, he liked to take lifeforms, and change them as he preferred, which was one of the main reasons the other Gods just HAD to stop him becuase they felt he was too powerful, and he most certainly was powerful. Infact, the whole destroying existance shpeal was becuase if he couldn't do what he wanted, then nobody would.

Oh well, D&D makes it important to take what the player/DM makes sense to fit in their Universe.