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Dan_Hemmens
2007-07-04, 04:59 AM
When working out the benefits of a Gestalt level, do you compare the average benefits of a level in the class in question, or the benefits of that specific level?

To put it another way, suppose you have a "Gestalt" character, and take (for your first level) Wizard/Fighter, giving you spellcasting, full BAB, decent hit dice etc.

Now suppose for your second and subsequent levels you take Wizard/Sorcerer (I know it's not that good a combo, it's just for the sake of the example).

So now at every level after the first, you're essentially gestalting Wizard n/Sorcerer n-1.

Of those two levels, one will get +0 to its BAB at any given level, the other will get +1. Since you always pick the best, you'll always get the +1, so you wind up with a character who gets full BAB despite not actually having more than one level in a full-BAB class.

Am I missing something?

RMS Oceanic
2007-07-04, 05:02 AM
The way I work that is rather than take it on a level-by-level basis. I add up the BAB (and saves) from one side of the Gestalt, then the other, and go with the higher number. It's simpler that way, although which side is providing the save may change from level to level.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-07-04, 05:03 AM
When working out the benefits of a Gestalt level, do you compare the average benefits of a level in the class in question, or the benefits of that specific level?

The average. This applies to saves as well.

Jannex
2007-07-04, 05:12 AM
In all the gestalt games I've ever run or played, we used fractional BAB and saves. As such, rather than every other level of Wizard giving you +1 BAB, every level of Wizard gives you +.5 BAB. Same with saves; a good save is +2 1/2 at first level and +1/2 every subsequent level, and a poor save is +1/3 every level.

Rad
2007-07-04, 06:37 AM
My interpretation would be to come up with the BAB (and individual saves) from both sides of the gestalt and take the better. If any side is multiclassed you first compute that side BAB and then compare it with the other side.
For instance a Fighter 1/sorcerer 4//wizard 5 would have a BAB of +3 on the first side and of +2 on the wizard side; the final BAB for the character is +3.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-04, 06:43 AM
You could do it either way.

Simply staggering the combat progression for sorcerer/wizard with a single level of Rogue at level 1 on the sorcercer side would give +19 BAB since you take the best of what each class offers. Theoretically it penalizes the +20 BAB Fighter builds but since most players get to choose their classes it really is a moot point.

Unless one side grants +20 BAB I usually just take the best of one side and add +2 for the BAB so sorcerer/wizard would be +12 BAB instead of +10BAB or +19 BAB by simply staggering a single level or more.

SpiderBrigade
2007-07-04, 10:39 AM
This comes up so many times that it really should be in the FAQ.

The thing is, the sorceror's table shows +1 BAB at level 2. This does not mean that at level 2, he ADDS +1 to his BAB. It means that his BAB at that level IS +1. See the difference?

So when you have a fighter 1/wizard 1 on one side of a gestalt, and sorceror 2 on the other, what you do is look at each side. The sorceror HAS a BAB of +1. The wizard HAS a BAB of +0, +1 for the fighter level he took. So his BAB is also +1.

Doing it the other way is not some alternate, yet viable interpretation. It is incorrect, and if you follow the logic to the end you can see why. If, indeed, you simply take the number and add it, a fighter would have a sickening BAB when gestalted with anything. Think about it. At level 5 fighter//level 5 wizard, the fighter's table shows +5 BAB. That means you add 5 to whatever BAB he had before, right? No. No it doesn't.

Jack Mann
2007-07-04, 11:05 AM
Seriously, there's a reason why you have fractional BAB and saves on the same page as gestalt in Unearthed Arcana. The whole thing just doesn't work very well otherwise.

mikeejimbo
2007-07-04, 11:39 AM
In all the gestalt games I've ever run or played, we used fractional BAB and saves. As such, rather than every other level of Wizard giving you +1 BAB, every level of Wizard gives you +.5 BAB. Same with saves; a good save is +2 1/2 at first level and +1/2 every subsequent level, and a poor save is +1/3 every level.

In my opinion, this is the easiest way to do it anyway. Even if your group doesn't use fractional numbers, you can add them up like that and then truncate the fraction.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-04, 03:30 PM
It's your game do what you want and have fun.

In UA under Base Attack Bonus it says choose the better progression from the two classes.

That has a few interpretations but since Wizards specifically sets aside a 2/3 page House Rule section in UA regarding Fractional Base Bonuses on the next page it strongly implies staggering BAB provides the best BAB benefits to the PC unless House Ruled.

TheOOB
2007-07-04, 04:46 PM
Seriously, there's a reason why you have fractional BAB and saves on the same page as gestalt in Unearthed Arcana. The whole thing just doesn't work very well otherwise.

Really, fractional BAB and saves is the most sensible way to calculate BAB and save in any game, more so then ever in gestalt.

Starsinger
2007-07-04, 04:53 PM
No. Just like when you take a 2nd level of fighter in normal D&D your base attack bonus doesn't become 3 (+1, +2). It becomes +2

squishycube
2007-07-04, 05:30 PM
That doesn't make any sense at all...