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View Full Version : DM Help Dungeon Mastery and rules for designing dungeons



Yora
2016-07-29, 09:30 AM
I am working on a campaign setting that has several lost ancient civilizations which have left behind a great number of abandoned ruins. I very much like the idea of Dungeon Mastery (http://goblinpunch.blogspot.de/2016/06/dungeon-mastery.html) and giving the players lots of hints that allows them to figure out patterns where traps and hidden secrets would be likely to be found. Once they start to see these patterns they can use this knowledge to their advantage with a real sense of accomplishment.

I want to take this a step further and allow the players to make use of this knowledge in other ruins of that civilization as well. And in good old Metroid fashion they might even decide to return to a ruin they've been to before because they remember spots where they could use a new trick they discovered.

To make this work dungeons have to have consistent rules of how they are designed and special features that commonly appear in them. And that's my question here: What kind of aspects of a dungeon do you think should be covered in a list of instructions how a dungeon of a specific culture is designed?

I think the most obvious item would be the types and placement of traps, secret doors, and treasure stashes.

Another good one that came to my mind is air shafts and water supply. If you have a consistent pattern of where such shafts are found and what dangers and obstacles they can hold, they could be used as really useful shortcuts and escape routes.

Surpriser
2016-07-29, 10:43 AM
A few ideas:

- Labels: Directions, shortcuts, traps, keys... might be written somewhere in plain sight for the convenience of the original inhabitants, but their meaning is lost in modern times. So once the players figure out what a certain rune/symbol/rock formation/coloured light/... actually means, they can use that knowledge whenever they encounter them again.
Example: Our modern symbol for "Biohazard" would be completely uncomprehensible for aliens exploring our facilities - until the first time they got their faces melted of by opening the wrong door without protection.
Figure out which kinds of warnings and instructions the ancient civilization would need, and use them whenever appropriate.

- Standard modules: In our world, there are only a few common ways to open a door (push/pull the handle or bar or slide it to the side). The same could be true in your dungeons. Air shafts always have the same kind of cover and are placed at the same height, common traps with similar characteristics and signs are used in multiple places,...

- Religion/Tradition: E.g. burial chambers turn clockwise and contain always exactly four rooms (look up the tomb of Nefertiti). Treasure rooms always have a shrine for the local deity in front of the door,...

- Functionality: Alchemical labs always contain an independent access for air/water/waste disposal..., a master key opens locks in multiple similar locations, ...

More specific things would need knowledge about the civilization you are talking about, in particular technology level and biology of the inhabitants.

Secret doors are one of the things that should not allow that kind of knowledge to apply - after all, they are meant to be difficult to find and thus would defy any standards and rules.

Yora
2016-07-29, 11:38 AM
"Strange. No old Indian guarding the treasure? That's unusual..."

Great ideas with the lables, I had not though about that. One challenge in an RPG is that you always have a kind of Chekhov's Gun going on with these. If you point out to players that there is a special symbol with a specific look among all the other decoration in the dungeon, it's a clear giveaway that it means something that the players can figure out. And any time there's another of the symbols you have to tell them and can't have it sit around quietly in the background.
But I don't think that has to be too much of a real problem. It should probably be quite effective to have the symbol not directly next to the thing it indicates. Having a deadly radiation symbol on a door and immediately give the PCs radiation damage when they open the door would make it too easy. Instead, for example, put the symbol on walls and doors in advance of the actual danger. Say make three doors with the symbol and only once all three doors are open do the PCs get harm. And then also put a fourth symbol in the room with the danger. This way it might take two or three such encounters before the players piece together what the one thing was that they encountered in all places that had that sign. Say they find two toxic glowing rods and then another glowing rod that isn't toxic and a toxic rod that doesn't glow. They might have figured out that glowing seems to be toxic, but actually it's a special symbol that indicates toxicity.
But that's probably already a pretty advanced example.

How difficult a smbol is to figure out should probably depend primarily on how often the party might encounter it. If you create a symbol for a one-shot adventure it should be quite easy. For a published campaign setting you could make some really tough ones. Another important factor is how important it will be that the players figure it out. If it's a puzzle to progress in a dungeon it should be quite easy. If it's more difficult then it should be okay if the players never figure it out.

With secret doors and trap I think there should be some patterns, but perhaps very general ones. It's not fun when player's have to check every 10 feet square with a skill check to be able to find them at all. Instead there should be some clues to help players get a hunch in what areas it's more worthwhile to make a check than in others.
Throne rooms might have hidden escape tunnels. But a secret door wouldn't open into a wide corridor where someone might accidently come around a corner at any moment.

OldTrees1
2016-07-29, 12:11 PM
What kind of aspects of a dungeon do you think should be covered in a list of instructions how a dungeon of a specific culture is designed?

It all boils down to Purpose & Aesthetics.

Purpose:
What is the relationship dynamic the culture ascribes between Dungeon Architect & Dungeon Explorer? Torturer-Victim? Vault-Lockpick? Mentor-Student? Law Enforcement-Thug? Lovers dancing? ...
What personality does the culture ascribe to the Dungeon Explorer? Sneaky thief? Greedy mercenary? Traveling Scholar? Potential hero? Naïve Neighbor? ...

Questions like this should help shape the idea of how the culture expects a dungeon incursion to play out. This likewise informs us about some of their preconceptions, their layout, & where/how they place obstacles.


Aesthetics:
"A secret door in a Dwarven city leads to a curved passage of smooth masonry that steadily widens while it curves to the right and down."
Did something sound off/abnormal? Different cultures will have different opinions on what is architecturally pleasing. Some will prefer 1:1 ratios with smooth straight passages and well defined turns. Others might prefer non constant ratios, rough passages, curved passages, or subtle turns. Are alcoves required or a faux pas?

Lacco
2016-08-10, 07:13 AM
Regarding the labels: when you wrote about them, the "railway crossing" sign came to my mind. In my country, the railway level crossings on main roads are usually heightened marked by three signposts - the first one, the farthest has one strip across the board, the second two, the third three, a symbol of train above, and is almost immediately in front of the crossing.

So for dangerous areas, you could use this easily. A corridor with a rune for "spider" with a line under it? "Beware of the spider nest down this corridor". The same rune with two lines? "Beware of the spider nest nearby". A door with the same rune & crossed two lines? "Spider nest".

Also, when Surpriser wrote "labels", Eye of the Beholder I, second level came up on mi mind. "You don't know what this rune is supposed to mean" vs. "This rune means "travel""... It signified passable illusion walls.

I really like this idea, so I'll try to think of something to add later. My first idea was to put a "button" into a wall. You push it, it clicks, nothing happens/trap activates. After some time, you get to another button (or you find a map of that area), with "pull, don't push" scribbled underneath the button. If you "pull" the button out of the wall, you find a real secret door mechanism.

Another "secret door within secret door" - you can find the first one easily (e.g. by pushing the loose brick) but if you push loose bricks in specific time/sequence, it opens up something more...

Also, if the dungeons had their architects, maybe they put their plans/ideas on papyrus? Maybe some of these were famous for some specific parts (e.g. "this must be the fabled ball-and-disc trap from Irxanius the Mad!)...?