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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next The Smooth Operator (WIP) Balancing Help Please



RATHSQUATCH
2016-08-15, 06:51 AM
Hello Everyone,

I'm working on a roguish archetype that sort of represents the standard rogue that is just simply "too cool" not to like. I haven't work out all the flavor yet, but here are the abilities I'm looking at. Any feedback and suggestions are welcome. Thank you.

THE SMOOTH OPERATOR
There are those people in life that are simply just too cool to not like. Regardless of their outlook in general, their sly and roguish demeanor is infectious.

BANTER
At 3rd level when you select this archetype, you become a master at perplexing those around you with stunning words of wit and sarcasm, often making them doubt themselves in combat. Your AC is equal to 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Charisma modifier so long as you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield and either unarmed or wielding a light weapon.

TONGUE LASHING
At 9th level, your tongue almost becomes a second weapon. By spitting out wit and sarcasm toward an opponent, you can draw extra attention to yourself and potentially perplex your opponent. The target of this feature must be able to hear and understand your words. You gain access to the compelled duel spell, but can use it at will.
At 13th level, if the target fails their Wisdom saving throw against compelled duel, the target can only use an Attack action or cast a spell if the action targets you.
At 17th level, in addition the effects above, when the target fails their Wisdom saving throw against your Tongue Lashing, they are unable to make reactions until the end of your next turn.

WINNING SMILE
At 13th level, even when you encounter those who you may have wronged in the past, they find it nearly impossible to stay mad at you. When using the Persuasion skill in a combat situation, you do not suffer a disadvantage.

COMPELLING WIT
At 17th level, you have a way with words and can captivate those around you. When you speak for 1 minute to at least six creatures who can see and hear you and are not currently hostile, up to six of the target creatures must make Wisdom saving throws with a DC of 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma bonus. You can implant a suggestion of your choice in the mind of each creature that fails this saving throw that lasts for up to 8 hours Creatures that can’t be charmed are immune to this effect.
The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself or do some other obviously harmful act ends the effect.

Each creature pursues the course of action you described to the best of its ability. The suggested course of action can continue for the entire duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the effect ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do. You can also specify conditions that will trigger a special activity during the duration. For example, you might suggest that a noble give their coin purse to the first homeless person they meet. If the condition isn’t met before the effect expires, the activity isn’t performed.

If you or any of your companions damage the target, the effect ends automatically.

You can use this feature once, then require a long rest before it can be used again.

EDIT: Tried to reword features based on feedback. Replaced charmed condition with taking away a reaction instead. Also reworded the level 13 ability for Tongue Lashing.

Lalliman
2016-08-15, 10:38 AM
Tongue Lashing:
- It doesn't say how to calculate the save DC. Obviously it's Cha-based, but you should state it anyways.
- The level 13 improvement is unclearly worded. It seems to imply that the creature will move towards you immediately when it fails the saving throw, which is outside of its turn, and then resumes functioning as if under the normal constraints of Compelled Duel. What I assume you mean is something like "Targets affected by your Tongue Lashing must do everything they can to move towards you and melee attack you."
- Wording aside, the level 13 improvement (as I interpreted it) might be problematic. It seems odd that you could anger a wizard to the point where he wants to melee attack you, and doing so would be extremely effective for an at-will power. On top of that, using Reckless Attack as a wizard is a death sentence. You should probably just replace this improvement with "the target does everything it can to attack you".
- The level 17 improvement is just weird. They're compelled to attack you and charmed at the same time?

Compelling Wit: It technically doesn't say that passing the saving throw lets you ignore the effect. Also, I didn't know parking garages existed in D&D :P

RATHSQUATCH
2016-08-15, 12:14 PM
Tongue Lashing:
- It doesn't say how to calculate the save DC. Obviously it's Cha-based, but you should state it anyways.
- The level 13 improvement is unclearly worded. It seems to imply that the creature will move towards you immediately when it fails the saving throw, which is outside of its turn, and then resumes functioning as if under the normal constraints of Compelled Duel. What I assume you mean is something like "Targets affected by your Tongue Lashing must do everything they can to move towards you and melee attack you."
- Wording aside, the level 13 improvement (as I interpreted it) might be problematic. It seems odd that you could anger a wizard to the point where he wants to melee attack you, and doing so would be extremely effective for an at-will power. On top of that, using Reckless Attack as a wizard is a death sentence. You should probably just replace this improvement with "the target does everything it can to attack you".
- The level 17 improvement is just weird. They're compelled to attack you and charmed at the same time?

Compelling Wit: It technically doesn't say that passing the saving throw lets you ignore the effect. Also, I didn't know parking garages existed in D&D :P

Thanks for the feedback. Wording wise it will need a lot of work, so thanks. I'll continue to refine that. From a balance perspective, is it too over/under powered once I adjust wording? Also, I wanted to use Stunned instead of Charmed, but being stunned is such a drastic setback I don't know if it'd be appropriate.

Lalliman
2016-08-15, 01:40 PM
Everything aside from Tongue Lashing already looked fine balance-wise. With the changes, Tongue Lashing (which, I gotta say, sounds like a sexual act of some sort) looks fine too. You could probably afford to change the level 17 improvement to "targets can't take reactions as long as they're affected", which would be slightly less to keep track of. I honestly have no idea what is and isn't balanced at such a high level though.

Nice job finding a way to make a martial with spell-like crowd control, by the way.

RATHSQUATCH
2016-08-15, 01:55 PM
Everything aside from Tongue Lashing already looked fine balance-wise. With the changes, Tongue Lashing (which, I gotta say, sounds like a sexual act of some sort) looks fine too. You could probably afford to change the level 17 improvement to "targets can't take reactions as long as they're affected", which would be slightly less to keep track of. I honestly have no idea what is and isn't balanced at such a high level though.

Nice job finding a way to make a martial with spell-like crowd control, by the way.

Thanks and the sexual innuendo was kind of on purpose...a tongue and cheek kind of thing. Haha. I'll look at wording again, but thanks a lot!