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braveheart
2016-08-26, 01:27 AM
I am about to start a new campaign with my playgroup and the primary premis is going to be that the players are trapped in a video game, simmilar to SAO. I've already got some ideas for how to make the game have more of a video game feel, such as increased stats, making a system for loot grinding, and more frequent levels that give less reward. I'm also differentiating between Player NPC's and Game NPC's (game NPC's care about your charisma stat, while player NPC's will require players to accruals roleplay) But I'm wondering if anyone has any other ideas for what to implement in order to adjust the feel more towards that of an MMO, without bogging my group down in too many rules and changes.

(Base system is Parhfinder)

TLDR: making a video game campaign looking for thoughts, already implemented things are above

oxybe
2016-08-26, 01:40 AM
You may want to investigate into the WoW & Diablo D&D material.

Yes, you read correctly: AD&D Diablo 2 crossover material. Made by Wizards themselves. I cannot speak of it's quality, but the material is out there. There's also the

www.wizards.com/dnd/main.asp?x=d2/diabloii,3

And as mentionned, there is also the closer to pathfinder, 3rd ed based World of Warcraft supplement:

https://www.amazon.ca/World-Warcraft-Roleplaying-Game-Baxter/dp/1588467813

Vrock_Summoner
2016-08-26, 01:40 AM
Well, for starters, I think D&D 4e would work much better for that goal than Pathfinder.

Beyond that, though... Replace certain recovery and empowering items with health drops and temporary stat boost drops, like instead of a Potion of Bull's Strength, it's a little floating aura that you walk through and it gives you the Bull's Strength boost for X number of strength-based actions before it's spent. Or instead of items that have multiple charges of healing effects, the drop gives you fast healing that lasts until you've healed a certain amount of HP.

Expand each class's abilities (maybe integrating all the archetypes into one super-class?) and give them points every level to unlock those abilities with to make it more of a skill tree-like progression.

Mutazoia
2016-08-26, 01:46 AM
Well, for starters, I think D&D 4e would work much better for that goal than Pathfinder..

With out trying to start another round of Edition Wars....4e was pretty much designed to mimic MMO's with abilities that had "cool down" times (ie. once per day, once per encounter, etc).

But anyway....

What style of video game are you trying to mimic? Are you going for the "trapped in an MMO" style, ala Sword Art Online? Or are you going for more of a "real life is an arcade game" style, ala "Scott Pilgrim vs. the World" ?

Martin Greywolf
2016-08-26, 03:14 AM
Like SAO? Well, okay, your protagonist needs to be as bland as possible, all even remotely interesting female characters must fall in love with him for no reason and literally everyone has to be dumber than a box of rocks.

Okay, now that I got that out of my system, some actual advice.

First thing you mus absolutely, positively do is determine what part of PF is just used to resolve actions of your characters and what part of it is an actual in-world game mechanic. For a lot of players, a major draw of a campaign like this is gaming the rules of in-game game. (Well, that was a sentence.) Allowing that is pretty essential for the feel of your campaign, but the players can't be allowed to take it too far.

For example, does your in-game game have turn based system? If so, can you use shenanigans to transport someone instantly over arbitrarily long distances? Can you pull a Sans and completely stall an enemy by just not taking your turn? Does your game have all the bells and whistles to make PunPun, and if so, why hasn't anyone made him yet?

Once you have that part down, you should make some exploits - small bugs/glitches that everyone uses by now and knows about, and devs can't be bothered (or don't want) to remove them. Melee-jetpack glide in No Man's Sky (makes you move faster) or move cancelling are good examples of such things.

Lastly, a simulation will always be a simulation. Things like glitches and crashes can happen, and if the players try to infinitely loop something, they'll run into a hard cap or an overflow eventually. The looks on their faces when their overboosted attack does a metric to of negative damage should be pretty priceless (do expect them to try and use it to heal themselves, tho).

goto124
2016-08-26, 08:17 AM
Like SAO? Well, okay, your protagonist needs to be as bland as possible, all even remotely interesting female characters must fall in love with him for no reason and literally everyone has to be dumber than a box of rocks.

I heard Log Horizon is much better. I don't know anything about it though, I'll leave the explanation to someone else.

GloatingSwine
2016-08-26, 08:33 AM
I heard Log Horizon is much better. I don't know anything about it though, I'll leave the explanation to someone else.

It isn't really. It's just differently bad. The main character is a different type of sue, he's the one who makes awesome plans that always work, a lot of the humour is "insert joke here" stuff, the pace is glacial and most of the interesting stuff happens in the preview of the next episode but is then glossed over in the episode itself.

None of the big "trapped in a videogame" anime have been any good, really. Even Overlord which everyone said was good was dull, there were no stakes for the protagonist ever, and even when there suddenly might have been it took literally an entire episode of exposition about the game rules to explain why there were actually stakes. It is exactly the wrong way to do an OP protagonist (in the way that One Punch Man is the right way to do it).

Cluedrew
2016-08-26, 09:51 AM
Personally the best "we are in a video game" story I have seen is the Greed Island ark of Hunter x Hunter. Which is kind of sad, it did better as an ark than stories that focused on that.

Anyways my main suggestion is never forget you are in a video game. It may sound weird but there are a lot of oddities I have seen that actually come from people trying to make it to much like real life.

Roll out ruling changes in patches. Have random restrictions that don't quite make sense narratively, but actually lead to good game balance (say enforcing wealth-by-level). Let NPCs be disinterested (or even unaware) of big things going on around them (unless they represent players). Also there should never, ever be an easy fight against similarly leveled players. Losing should be more common and have less consequences. And so on.

goto124
2016-08-26, 09:59 AM
Let NPCs be disinterested (or even unaware) of big things going on around them (unless they represent players).

I haven't figured out how to make NPCs be like video-game NPCs without making the whole game boring. Don't these roleplaying games thrive on having the in-universe characters react somewhat realistically to the world and what the PCs do?

Joe the Rat
2016-08-26, 10:35 AM
There's a delightful little manhwa called The Gamer, where the protagonist's life is a game, or more accurately, has a video game interface. Doing his chores have quest-like notifications, for example. He sees his stats, levels, allocates points, can look at some stats of other people and monsters (unless they are too far above his level), automatic radio-like communication with anyone else in his "party," looks for broken-as-hell exploits (which all of the not-living-life-as-an-rpg-character characters comment on), heals by eating, etc. The Visible Interface would certainly sell the environment. Extra-sensory abilities create notification windows ("You detect killing intent"). Whether or not the players can see one another's screens is your call.

A few specific thoughts:

Ping!Leveling is instantaneous wherever you are, whenever it happens. Whether or not that comes with hp/mana/spell slot/rice pudding refills is your call. New skill/stat allocations have to be between combats, though.
Hit points are Meat Points. losing hit points leaves a mark, or a wound, or a scorch, but nothing is serious or debilitating past the 6-second window they were injured (unless there is a status effect attached). Until you hit 0 that is, at which time you face plant. Food either heals, is subtracted as you travel, is only consumed at 8-hour-rest, or does nothing. Or you could nethack it for starvation rules and can everything for food (in which case ignore the disappearing corpse part of Money Spiders, below).
Visible Status Effects. Getting sickened/frightened/poisoned/on fire/ etc. includes a visible change - poisoned/sickened/nauseated characters have boozles (booze bubbles), mind-controlled characters change color, etc.
Hammerspace Inventory. Whether or not you have an encumbrance limit, everything the player carries is in a "backpack" or "pouch" or "inventory screen". They reach "somewhere" and grab whatever it is they need. Handy haversack is a redundant item. You do need to decide how long the retrieval process is, but equipping armor is probably a LOT faster.
Money spiders. Everything has a chance of leaving treasure. The bodies fall, go poof, and there's a pile of coins and potions and whatnot. Enemies will sometimes, but not always, drop whatever armor / weapons / etc. They carry. Dropping "magic stones" that can be used for item crafting in lieu of actual items is a possibility.
BGM for the BBEG. Use background music - a specific song or playlist for a specific environment. city music, NPC music, quest point sound effect, battle music, dungeon music, wilderness music, and of course Boss Monster music. Always stop and switch to the fight music right before you say "Roll initiative." This can also be helpful to the players, because they can get a sense of the scene mood by what's playing, or differentiate between encounter types (random, story, climax, End Disk 1, etc.) and prepare accordingly.
No Wizards. Unless you are tapping into the SSI Gold Box games, you might want to have your casters be Known Spell classes only.
There is no OOC. When you are not speaking directly to an NPC, they ignore what you are saying, unless they are a decidedly different type of monster - something else from outside, or that is somehow involved in the reality-breaking that brought them here. Let them spend 10 minutes discussing ideas, saying insulting things about the conversationalist, whatever - so long as they do not specifically address or interact with the NPC.
Game-breaking characters: You Are Not Alone...And after 10 or so levels of that, introduce a social interaction scene that, gasp!, the NPC is actually paying attention in real time, and can do decidedly un-NPC-like things like casting or attacking when the fight music hasn't started yet, or tries to invoke "Cut Scene Incompetence" to get the upper hand in a situation.

Telonius
2016-08-26, 10:43 AM
I haven't figured out how to make NPCs be like video-game NPCs without making the whole game boring. Don't these roleplaying games thrive on having the in-universe characters react somewhat realistically to the world and what the PCs do?

The players walk into town; they notice two guards standing on either side of the gate. "Welcome to Riverton!" says one of them, looking straight ahead.
"Hello there! We're travelers ... " They notice that the guards haven't moved an inch. "Er..."
"Welcome to Riverton!" he says again. Perception or sense motive will show that he's starting to sweat. Though his body has barely moved, you can see that he almost seems afraid.
As they walk through the town, they see that people are marching back and forth aimlessly, speaking a single phrase over and over. Several of the shopkeepers are wearing identical sets of clothing. All of them seem very thin, as though they haven't eaten in a while. Some of them have parched lips, barely croaking out their phrase.

Spellcraft will reveal the presence of a powerful curse.

Cluedrew
2016-08-26, 10:56 AM
I haven't figured out how to make NPCs be like video-game NPCs without making the whole game boring. Don't these roleplaying games thrive on having the in-universe characters react somewhat realistically to the world and what the PCs do?That depends on exactly what type of story you are trying to tell. Change the NPCs to fit. You could say that there is a computer cranking out dynamic dialogue, or you could wait for the voice actors to do their bits before updating the dialogue. You can fill up some of the other dialog with other players (non-player players) or you could have NPCs only react to in story events. So they might be very aware of the king's affair (celebrity gossip in the middle ages) but completely miss that do to a glitch the sky is now purple.


"You detect killing intent"Your ability to detect killing intent has leveled up.

One of my favourite scenes in that story. At least I think that is the one (the one with Dad glaring at them).

wumpus
2016-08-26, 11:26 AM
It isn't really. It's just differently bad. The main character is a different type of sue, he's the one who makes awesome plans that always work, a lot of the humour is "insert joke here" stuff, the pace is glacial and most of the interesting stuff happens in the preview of the next episode but is then glossed over in the episode itself.

None of the big "trapped in a videogame" anime have been any good, really. Even Overlord which everyone said was good was dull, there were no stakes for the protagonist ever, and even when there suddenly might have been it took literally an entire episode of exposition about the game rules to explain why there were actually stakes. It is exactly the wrong way to do an OP protagonist (in the way that One Punch Man is the right way to do it).

I suppose Erfworld is "trapped in a tabletop game", but you might look there for inspiration. As someone who remembers when "D&D on a computer" was a distant goal and things like Zork and rogue were the best available, this seems like a really odd direction to go.

The only real way to make NPCs interesting is to assume that they are "other players in a MMO", otherwise you are stuck with obviously limited dialog trees. You might make mooks (friend, enemy, shopkeeper) stereotypically limited "video game mooks" and let the more important NPCs be "real characters", this would at least give some of the feel.

The problem with this whole concept is that video games typically have those choices to deal with limitations. Lack of those limitations is likely a big reason you are still playing pen and paper. Think twice before taking too much of the faults of software into your game.

JeenLeen
2016-08-26, 12:17 PM
I'm assuming this game is "you (player) play as real life people (PC) playing in an MMO (as a PCC) and trapped there".

Advice One
Have all the stats be the PCC's stats. No it doesn't make sense, but it's easier. If you want, have two sets of mental stats and skills, but you don't level up the PC's stats and they only apply to stuff like knowledge rolls (for metagame knowledge perhaps) or to solve puzzles.
...actually, having PC stats with Knowledge (metagame) or even more broken down (bugs, monster stats, optimization, etc.) sounds cool.

But the point being the PCC's stats are what matter (at least mostly) and what are stat'ed out, since those impact your PCC in-combat. Maybe the guy playing a dumb fighter is a genius, but that doesn't let his fighter cast spells.

Advice Two
Let stuff like grinding for loot be done in downtime, much like (in a typical D&D) crafting or doing Performance/Profession rolls could be downtime. The PC is actively having their PCC do it, but the Player shouldn't have to waste time on that. Even minor, routine quests could be done during downtime. If you want to allow this to give a level-up, feel free.
This is probably best coupled with some sort of timeline that matters to the PC (and thus to the player), such as everyone will die if not freed within x days.

Some ideas for inspiration
Beyond Sword Art Online, check out the .Hack (dot-hack) anime and video game series. The first anime, I think, was very well done, and it could express how hacks or... well, whatever is going on (never finished the game so I never figured out what was really happening)... can disrupt players. Maybe everyone is trapped there as in SAO or only some folk as in .Hack.

As an aside, I was in an oWoD game, and had the players go into a base that they knew has a Marauder mage in it. They didn't know his insanity was thinking things were a video game like Final Fantasy 7. It was very disorienting for the players when they first entered combat.

"Okay, as you enter the asylum, some odd background music plays. Creepy. Nobody is around."
players walk around, and grab something to put in backpack
"As you put it there, it vanishes. You notice no discernible difference in backpack weight."
player takes it out and puts it back. Odd but okay, whatever.
"Okay, as you walk forward, all the world swirls around you, the music changes to a fast-upbeat tempo, and you find yourself in a similar but different-looking room facing two... what appear to be orderlies."
players roll initiative, and guy with highest starts to talk
"Um, wait. You start to move, but notice you can't. One orderly runs towards you, punches you twice, and jumps back to his spot. <roll Attack, Defend, Soak, etc.> You see a number 2 pop above you in red, and you take 2 damage. Suddenly, you see an option screen pop up in front of you. You grasp you can mentally control it. Your options are 'Attack, Defend, Item, or Special'. What do you do?'

At that point, they figured out what was up.

BeerMug Paladin
2016-08-26, 02:23 PM
Want to make it seem videogamey? Drop healing potions, silly-tons of them. Make it feasible for a player party to go into a huge dungeon complex and traverse the whole thing without needing to take a rest break at any point. Just chug potions like crazy.


You may want to investigate into the WoW & Diablo D&D material.

My favorite thing in the Diablo 2 book was the silly potions. Drink a mana potion to restore used spell levels! Rejuvenation restores a fixed proportion of total hit points! Full rejuvenation potions are just as good as a full rest! Those sorts of potions should drop as well (so your wizards/clerics don't need to rest).

It's been a while since I've seen the book, but those were the most amusing things I recall in them.

Kitten Champion
2016-08-26, 04:21 PM
Three things with regards to a video game-based narrative

First, unlike a D&D-esque game where you play the PC's role directly, the role the character within a MMO's universe is only indicative of what they - the real-world character who your players are actually roleplaying - picked in character creation, not something that defines them in any meaningful fashion. They could be a hard-liner atheist whose never stepped into a church all their life and yet be a cleric of some fictional in-universe god, be a junior high kid playing a grizzled sword-master with grey hair and a beard, or a Barbarian who thinks lacking wi-fi for a night is roughing it.

Something about that character and play-style attracted them to it and people have their own motives for entering the game - so the PC's game avatars should probably say something about the person who's controlling it even if its "I have no earthly idea how to play an MMO and wound up with a generic template/broken character" - but the main point is to define the Person they're ultimately roleplaying. This is one thing Dot.Hack did well, you have this veil of anonymity for every character you encounter in-game that all you get is their online persona at first, but advancing through the story reveals more and more about the Real person behind... so to speak.

Secondly, meta-game is the game. Everyone knows, or can easily find-out, what their character can do and will be able to do when they meet pre-defined experience quotas. They know what weaknesses monsters have, where to go for quests, what the in-game bugs are, and basically what's most efficient. While you can minimize what's known by making the MMO the PCs are in very recent in its launch or making the game absurdly large, that information would still quickly get around because that's how communities work online. More to the point, it's what human characters would talk about in-game. Only dedicated RPers and NPCs will take the programmers' in-setting lore seriously, which effects the level of emotional investment one could have at whatever conflict they provide as one could expect to be detached from the thought of NPCs suffering. Additionally, in-game utility functions will be available to all regardless of class, like communication via Chat function, sending screenshots, and other things which would break immersion but logically would be there anyways.

You have the option on the other hand of establishing the out-of-game-game-lore, as in the "real world" is going to have some fictional elements as well - how far in the future is it? Anything significantly different from our mundane contemporary reality you might want to point out?

Lastly, there isn't going to be an End to the game. Yes, Sword Art Online had a Tower of Druaga-esque "climb 100 levels and beat every boss and you'll be free" plot, but unless you stipulate some specific condition MMORPGs are meant to have no specific endpoint or linear achievement. So, either the campaign stems from the personal goals of the Players or it's something unnatural to its design which is being imposed on it. For instance, while slightly different in concept, Ready Player One by Ernest Cline has an Easter Egg hidden in a enormous VR space by its eccentric creator that serves as a Grail Quest worth an enormous real-world fortune if they find it. Dot.Hack has an A.I hidden in its code that's used the MMO-environment for prolonged processing power, and for reasons has turned malevolent and is creating calamities throughout the game and real world. There's a few books where MMO's are used as part of The Running Man-style gladiatorial theater imposed on inmates or where its just fun for thrill-seekers, and another where it's become the basis for economic class as a society-wide preoccupation with in-game currency replacing real-world money.

Then you have something like Only Sense Online, which has nothing like an End Goal as an MMO wouldn't or serious conflict with forces external or internal to the game and is simply driven by the protagonist's desire to play the game as its intended of which the his goals and consequences for achieving them or not are entirely rooted in the character.

Point being, Meaning has to be added into it by the players, the complexities of the setting outside the game, or some unnatural event from within. Because an MMORPG is about wasting as much of your time as possible until you grow tired of it or there's another expansion. The world will not change and nothing will be effected by you not playing it.

Honest Tiefling
2016-08-26, 04:29 PM
I heard Log Horizon is much better.

Did they seriously name it Log Horizon? Because that brings an interesting image to mind. Speaking of immature humor, how realistic is the game world? Because you should take out toilets. When is the last time you saw one of those in an MMO, eh?

On another note, I'd look at the Mythic system. It was created to make well, mythic characters, but I think that level of being beyond the ordinary NPC might help as well. But imagine a monster rampaging in a village that can't be beaten because the NPCs aren't players, so the game gives plot armor to the monsters so only a player can defeat it. Now you have Mythic Damage Reduction!

I have not played with it myself, but I do hear it has a few problems with balance so you might want to look into that.

And personally, I think throwing in some glitches would be hilarious! Characters randomly get naked due to server lag. Characters accidentally meld into each others and get stuck. People fall through the world into a yawning abyss. Monsters accidentally speak with the voice of the town baker as they are murdering innocent townsfolk. Invisible walls crush or impede characters. All the while the NPCs are smiling and acting like this is perfectly natural.

KillianHawkeye
2016-08-26, 06:04 PM
I'll just leave this here....
http://i.stack.imgur.com/uv3Wa.jpg

halfeye
2016-08-26, 07:04 PM
As someone who remembers when "D&D on a computer" was a distant goal and things like Zork and rogue were the best available, this seems like a really odd direction to go.

I remember Dungeon Master on the Atari ST, also available on the Commodore Amiga. Zork was what, five years before that, or less? it's nearly 30 years ago now. It was set in a dungeon, and there was a dragon (big red fire-breathing thing, it didn't fly).

Do/es you/the original poster actually know video games? They are typically both silly and very complicated, with the computer taking care of a lot of the complicated, if you're doing that, it will be a lot of work.

Prime32
2016-08-26, 07:24 PM
I heard Log Horizon is much better. I don't know anything about it though, I'll leave the explanation to someone else.Log Horizon (and Overlord for that matter) isn't a "trapped in a videogame" story so much... At least, they're both very different from SAO.

In a world called Theldesia, a powerful curse was used to create a race of monsters - magical constructs that come in many shapes and respawn when they die. In response, the world's greatest wizards created a second race of constructs called "Adventurers" that hunt monsters and absorb their power.

In order to provide direction to the mindless Adventurer constructs, the spell seems to have somehow reached out to another world, becoming linked with an MMO called Elder Tale. That is, ET's game world is an almost 1:1 copy of Theldesia, and its players are unknowingly creating and controlling Adventurers. ET is also not a VR game; it's basically Everquest in a world where World of Warcraft never happened.

The story begins with the players' minds being suddenly pulled into the Adventurer bodies, effectively transporting the entire playerbase of ET to Theldesia in the form of their avatars. From the perspective of the natives, it's basically an AI uprising - tools they've used for generations have become sentient, with strange knowledge and vastly different values from their own; there's hundreds of thousands of them, they're ridiculously powerful, and they can't even be permanently killed. The players are likewise confused by the natives because at first they think they're NPCs that become sentient.

Log Horizon is basically a story about how no man is an island, and people have to work together instead of trying to solve problems on their own. The Players have to build a society from scratch and figure out how to establish peaceful relations with the People of the Land. At the same time, they're investigating the different physics of the new world and how Earth knowledge can be applied to them. The fights also have a lot of emphasis on raid tactics - since the players now have to fight with their own hands and don't have a third-person camera, communication with your teammates has become more important than ever.
Overlord is about a guy who's transported to a low-level fantasy setting in the body of an epic-level D&D 3.5 lich, and forced to act like a stereotypical evil overlord... only for the act to become more and more genuine as he slowly goes mad with power and starts to forget what a mortal body was like. It ranges from black comedy when the story is told from the lich's perspective, to straight action/suspense/tragedy/horror when we see things through the eyes of the world's native inhabitants.


Log Horizon also has its own TTRPG with some interesting mechanics (such as aggro management), though most of the material for it hasn't been translated.

goto124
2016-08-26, 10:08 PM
Thanks for the info on Log Horizon!

There's a webcomic called Elf Only Inn. It's about the drama between players and the game developers in an MMO.

Chimera245
2016-08-27, 10:54 AM
This reminds me of a game I tried to run once.

I had each PC roll up two characters, one "Modern-day dude who plays that popular MMO" using d20 Modern, and one "MMO character that the first would likely create" using 4e D&D. The players would have to flip back and forth with their "real-life" and MMO characters to find the dark secret behind the company running the game, kinda .hack//-like.

Group broke up before it got very far, though...

By far, the biggest impact you can have to make the world seem game-like is just the fluff.
Describe the way monsters vanish and leave floating loot drops.
Describe the green bubbles or floating "Z"'s that come out of people's heads when they have status effects. Describe the floating names over other "PC"s heads, and how some of those names are "-=LeGoLaS=-" or "Warriorgirl_69" or "ghf7694828".
Describe the occasional "player" who creates their character in the obvious image of something else. Like the Warlock in red-and-yellow full plate named "ir0n_man".
Let the players find out that other "PC"s are being played by someone vastly different than their character, like the big-breasted bikini-wearing elf sorceress, who's actually a chubby sweaty guy in a basement, or an eleven-year-old kid. Or the paladin who's played by a total jerk, etc.
If something that shouldn't have, play it off as a bug or glitch. Or do it intentionally sometimes. Like have an AI NPC be walking in place, stuck on some obstacle, clipping into it slightly.
Don't forget to let the players have access to the kinds of tools one would have in a game, like friends lists, and instant messaging.

Pen-and-Paper RPG's are already games, just play that up this time, instead of trying to suspend disbelief as usual. The only thing I would suggest suspending the disbelief of is the turn-based initiative system. I Highly doubt any MMO would be successful if it had a turn-based system. And the P&P RPG that you're truly playing won't be successful WITHOUT it. In the game world, everything happens in real-time, and rolling initiative just represents which players hit their keys and clicked their mouse first, etc. (or whatever kind of control scheme the game has).

Vrock_Summoner
2016-08-27, 11:22 AM
... Which, actually, is another potential tip. If you go the route mentioned above about giving the MMO-playing character their own separate but mostly mental stats (for things like metagame knowledge and exploits/bugs) you should also make Initiative be attached to the person behind the screen.

Âmesang
2016-08-27, 01:48 PM
Force characters to only move in one direction and, if they die, their characters jump straight up before disappearing into the ground.

It's sure to give you game that real arcade feel!

bulbaquil
2016-08-27, 10:11 PM
By far, the biggest impact you can have to make the world seem game-like is just the fluff.
Describe the way monsters vanish and leave floating loot drops.
Describe the green bubbles or floating "Z"'s that come out of people's heads when they have status effects. Describe the floating names over other "PC"s heads, and how some of those names are "-=LeGoLaS=-" or "Warriorgirl_69" or "ghf7694828".
Describe the occasional "player" who creates their character in the obvious image of something else. Like the Warlock in red-and-yellow full plate named "ir0n_man".
Let the players find out that other "PC"s are being played by someone vastly different than their character, like the big-breasted bikini-wearing elf sorceress, who's actually a chubby sweaty guy in a basement, or an eleven-year-old kid. Or the paladin who's played by a total jerk, etc.
If something that shouldn't have, play it off as a bug or glitch. Or do it intentionally sometimes. Like have an AI NPC be walking in place, stuck on some obstacle, clipping into it slightly.
Don't forget to let the players have access to the kinds of tools one would have in a game, like friends lists, and instant messaging.

Pen-and-Paper RPG's are already games, just play that up this time, instead of trying to suspend disbelief as usual. The only thing I would suggest suspending the disbelief of is the turn-based initiative system. I Highly doubt any MMO would be successful if it had a turn-based system. And the P&P RPG that you're truly playing won't be successful WITHOUT it. In the game world, everything happens in real-time, and rolling initiative just represents which players hit their keys and clicked their mouse first, etc. (or whatever kind of control scheme the game has).

Right. If you use descriptive combat, rather than saying something like "Bob, the dire bear angrily rips its claws across your chest, raking into your skin leaving a vicious-looking scar as it deals 21 points of damage," say "Bob, the dire bear angrily rips its claws across your chest. As is usual, you feel no pain and bear no visible wounds, but Alice and Dave, you see the number 21 flash above Bob's head."

Slipperychicken
2016-08-28, 01:35 AM
I'll just leave this here....
http://i.stack.imgur.com/uv3Wa.jpg

That sounds like a great way for the GM to commit suicide-by-angry-player.

One of the lesser-known benefits of video-games is that the developer is not present for the player to pummel or berate over these kinds of shenanigans.

Vrock_Summoner
2016-08-28, 01:59 AM
That sounds like a great way for the GM to commit suicide-by-angry-player.

One of the lesser-known benefits of video-games is that the developer is not present for the player to pummel or berate over these kinds of shenanigans.
Also, the video game's equivalent of the player handbook is not nearly as durable or suited to being used for bludgeoning.

8BitNinja
2016-08-28, 03:01 AM
I'm new to this thread, so forgive me if I mention an already suggested idea.

Add a crafting and resource gathering system. Mining for Mithril to make a sword will definitely make them feel as of this was a video game. I know from firsthand experience.

CoreBrute23
2016-08-28, 05:14 AM
You might want to see if your game is more a serious drama (perma-death/a time limit to resurrect people) or a comedy (think Southpark Stick of Truth, where the enemy complains about the time turn orders take, or Order of The Stick cheesing the rules). Just the way the people around you act, either treating the rules as sacrosanct 'I can't hate you, you succeded on your diploamcy roll' or appreciating the logic of it 'we can't escape from battle-there's a magical barrier preventing us from running away' can really give a video game feel.



None of the big "trapped in a videogame" anime have been any good, really. Even Overlord which everyone said was good was dull, there were no stakes for the protagonist ever, and even when there suddenly might have been it took literally an entire episode of exposition about the game rules to explain why there were actually stakes. It is exactly the wrong way to do an OP protagonist (in the way that One Punch Man is the right way to do it).

I would suggest Grimgar and Konosuba as examples of how an anime did the 'living in a video game' well. Grimgar worked because it played the drama straight, showing how scary the world was if you had no idea how video games worked, along with permadeath.

Konosuba is the exact opposite, with world rules like Fantasy RPGs (classes, quests, monsters, etc) but everyone except the hero is almost a complete moron. And even he isn't that bright, getting in terrible amounts of trouble. The best part is, he's supposed to be the hero-but no one treats him like it. Good comedy.

I'd suggest Re-Zero, but that has less fantasy rpg video game rules, and more like Dark Souls but more traumatic. It's an excellent series though.


I haven't figured out how to make NPCs be like video-game NPCs without making the whole game boring. Don't these roleplaying games thrive on having the in-universe characters react somewhat realistically to the world and what the PCs do?

You could have the NPCs be indestructible, and see how the world goes from there. NPCs might have personalities, but they can't actually engage enemies or protect themselves from monsters, which is why they give quests to heroes. The Heroes can't hurt them, but they need each other, in a sort of symbiotic relationship.

AMFV
2016-08-28, 05:24 AM
Well the first part of the problem you have is this: Sword Art Online is NOT a Video Game, it's a Manga, it uses certain video game tropes for it's story, but it's a manga not a game, the rules fit a different narrative structure. If you're trying to do something like Sword Art Online you'd do better examining it and the tropes it uses rather than trying to make something similar to a video game which isn't even what it really is.

Kelb_Panthera
2016-08-28, 06:36 AM
I'm inclined to assume, given SAO as the basis of the idea, that respawning would be inappropriate. If not, then respawning stations would be a good start.

All enemies are loot piñatas. "How did that 2 foot rat have an entire suit of plate armor for a medium sized human inside it? Who cares, loot!"

It may be video-gamey but don't do item farming except as an off-screen, "you did it for this long and got X gold worth of crap," kind of thing. Grinding combats in PNP gets old quickly.

Most of the in-game game-world's NPC's should have only limited dialogue options while NPC "players" behave normally. (Decide if you're going to allow NPC "players" to sell basic gear or just lootable gear.)

Maybe do a sub-plot about somebody cheating (hacker, bug-exploiter, loot-scammer, etc)

That's about all I've got for now.

CoreBrute23
2016-08-28, 06:58 AM
You might want to look at 'Just a Game' a collection of essays and rules idea to do an RPG set in a video game world.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/153922/Just-a-Game--Playtest-Packet

The essays are free/PWYW however they specifically refer to Gumshoe, FATE and Apocalypse Engine systems. There's good points and advise here, but nothing specific to Pathfinder.

8BitNinja
2016-08-28, 11:30 PM
Have NPCs randomly tell the players about personal matters just because they walked up to them.

PC: "Hello Ma'am, how are you?"
Old Lady: "My son was taken prisoner by bandits and I've been cursed by a warlock."

Lapsed Pacifist
2016-08-29, 06:38 AM
Check out Summer Wars for an excellent example of the trapped inside a video game anime genre.

Braininthejar2
2016-08-29, 07:15 AM
This reminds me of one Final Fantasy game where I almost got wiped by a mimic pretending to be a save point...

Earthwalker
2016-08-29, 08:16 AM
Make it incredibly lethal for the characters and charge them 50p for each life.

Or better yet only write half the first session and then stop when your planning runs out then charge your group additional money for the add on DLC.

Make sure all the best abilities for characters are locked at the start of the game and allow our players to unlock them by giving you money.

Even tho you are playing a table top game insist that the players have a constant internet connection to keep playing.

Spend months if not years giving details about the game you are about to run with more and more fanciful game play elements. then when you start the game make sure none of the things you have promised are in the game.

CoreBrute23
2016-08-29, 09:11 AM
Make it incredibly lethal for the characters and charge them 50p for each life.

Or better yet only write half the first session and then stop when your planning runs out then charge your group additional money for the add on DLC.

Make sure all the best abilities for characters are locked at the start of the game and allow our players to unlock them by giving you money.

That is actually genius. It's like Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash-everything costs money, living space, weapons, new skills etc. And because it's a war torn region, the only jobs available to the PCs are as adventurers/killing monsters for loot to sell. They can't even progress to the nest level unless they get a certain amount of gold!

Adding in the idea that the gods (or maybe just Death) are greedy bastards, really sets an interesting tone for the game. Gold is valuable, not just because it can buy you goods, but because it can stave off death itself! But the only way to get it is through murdering monsters/others for their loot!

Wow, Death's business plan is both sickening and impressive.


Even tho you are playing a table top game insist that the players have a constant internet connection to keep playing. You clearly haven't played with modern gamers. They're always on the internet, checking their phones when it's not their turn, skimming through kindles or forums for rules lawyering tidbits.

They'd be angry if there wasn't constant internet connection.


Spend months if not years giving details about the game you are about to run with more and more fanciful game play elements. then when you start the game make sure none of the things you have promised are in the game.

That hit a little close to home mate. :smallfrown:

Vrock_Summoner
2016-08-29, 09:49 AM
That is actually genius. It's like Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash-everything costs money, living space, weapons, new skills etc. And because it's a war torn region, the only jobs available to the PCs are as adventurers/killing monsters for loot to sell. They can't even progress to the nest level unless they get a certain amount of gold!

Adding in the idea that the gods (or maybe just Death) are greedy bastards, really sets an interesting tone for the game. Gold is valuable, not just because it can buy you goods, but because it can stave off death itself! But the only way to get it is through murdering monsters/others for their loot!

Wow, Death's business plan is both sickening and impressive.
I think he was going off of the "real player is playing a fictional player who is then playing the MMO character" angle, so it's the player within the game paying physical cash to some bigwigs rather than the MMO character having to pay gold.

Or he makes his players pay for him to run their campaigns already, and he's just getting more ruthless.

CoreBrute23
2016-08-29, 12:38 PM
I think he was going off of the "real player is playing a fictional player who is then playing the MMO character" angle, so it's the player within the game paying physical cash to some bigwigs rather than the MMO character having to pay gold.

Oh. Well that's just a less fun version of the Hero.com idea, where the kids have to pay to get their super powers.


Or he makes his players pay for him to run their campaigns already, and he's just getting more ruthless.

That's just EA-play the game: The Game.

You should know that the only acceptable currency for GMs is pizza.

Âmesang
2016-08-29, 12:50 PM
Have NPCs randomly tell the players about personal matters just because they walked up to them.

PC: "Hello Ma'am, how are you?"
Old Lady: "My son was taken prisoner by bandits and I've been cursed by a warlock."
I'm suddenly reminded of 99% of the NPCs in Pokémon games who stand in place (or move around… barely), saying the same phrase over and over and over. Like, I think in X and Y there's this little girl who hangs out in front of a forest. All day. Every day. I might be playing at 3:00 AM and she'll be there, not moving, saying the same thing over and over…

…don't you have a home to go to?!

http://assets.amuniversal.com/e9ee4810deb701317193005056a9545d
EDIT: Honestly that might make for an interesting adventure module; the party comes across a village/town/city in which everyone's been enchanted to act like such mindless NPCs. Maybe throw a little bit of The Truman Show in there…

Slipperychicken
2016-08-29, 01:27 PM
You should know that the only acceptable currency for GMs is pizza.

My GM would have been happy with beer or chicken wings.

CoreBrute23
2016-08-29, 01:31 PM
My GM would have been happy with beer or chicken wings.

This guy gets it.

Beans
2016-08-29, 02:40 PM
So you want to play a game wherein, like in SAO (and... multiple other things...), the characters are regular people in "the real world" who are playing some sort of VR MMORPG and are trapped in it. If I'm reiterating other people's points, apologies, but I'm just going through my points as they come to me.

0. What feel are you going for? Do you want it to be dark and tense (i.e. SAO's "everyone tries desperately to survive in an all-too-lethal game world"), or less so?

1. What is the scale of... well, trapped-ness? Is every player of the game trapped, or are only some trapped?
• If only some people are trapped, is there something they can "get" from non-trapped players (i.e. news from the real world, some sort of assistance regarding their bodies, getting their trapped state known when otherwise it might not be known)?
•• If only some people are trapped, you could conceivably have some non-trapped players with multiple characters, which could be used for plot things.
• If everyone's trapped, unless they have some other way of contacting the real world, you may want to play up the associated anxieties. People are wondering what's going on IRL, what's happening to their bodies, if people will be able to fix the situation from outside or if the in-game people will have to do that, etc.
• Presumably the goal is to no longer be trapped in the MMO. Is it possible to somehow achieve this goal by doing things within the MMO (if so, why/how/etc)? If not, does that mean everybody's just trying to wait for an eventual rescue from out-of-MMO?
•• If the latter is the case, what's stopping everyone from just sitting around in safe zones to wait for rescue?

2. SAO, for its faults, at least plays interestingly with some things. For example, the VR device causes everyone's game avatar to suddenly become exactly like their IRL body (to the dismay of, for example, some male players whose game avatars were female). I vaguely remember something about underwear becoming the most popular crafted item. Do you intend your game to play with things this way? Are people's game avatars forced to reflect their IRL appearances, or are they allowed to be different as is the case in .hack (wherein a girl notably plays a male character for interesting and arguably pretty sad reasons)?

3. How is death handled? If you die in Canada the game, do you die for real (because the VR dealio zaps your brain into meatloaf) or do you respawn?
• If avatar death = player death, absolutely play up the fear that deserves.
• If respawning is a thing, are you going to make avatar death still undesirable? Here's some factors.
•• Trauma: Sure, you respawn, but avatar death is still not just unpleasant to the player, but genuinely mentally and emotionally harmful. This probably merits having, in your game (as distinct from just the VR MMORPG), some system gauging PC mental welfare. It also lets you retain some real horror to avatar death while not making it an actual character-ender, at least not immediately.
••• If this is a thing, consider what happens when the sanity meter hits zero (or whatever). Consider the effects on NPC-players. Are there NPC-players driven catatonic who basically sit around and do nothing? Perhaps eventually there's an antagonist who is a high-level NPC-player driven to violence and paranoia by repeated avatar-deaths? Gradually showing the effects of repeated avatar-death to your players could make its impact felt long before any of them face it firsthand.
•• Resource Loss: Dying causes you to lose stuff. What degree of loss determines if it's just aggravating or if it risks a vicious cycle---dying means you have less stuff that helps you in some way avoid dying, causing you to die more, etc.

4. I saw some people proposed making two character sheets, one for the PC-who-plays-the-MMO and one for the MMO avatar. That's probably a good idea. The idea of some things using PC stats (i.e. interacting with "real person NPCs") and some using MMO stats (i.e. interacting with "game construct NPCs" and also all the hacky-slashy fiddle-faddle) makes sense too.
• If you have two character sheets and intend to use two systems... well, how close or different are they going to be? On one hand it could be interesting for, say, the PC to be made in CofD or FATE or whatever while the MMO avatar is made in a D20 system, but I can totally also see it risking confusion and frustration, at least at first.

5. Uh, other things people have said that I agree with: fluffing things in a gamey way (visible HUD and menus, hammerspace storage, health potions, cooldowns, explicitly visible buffs and debuffs, damage numbers, loot drops, money spiders) is a good way to keep the immersion of the MMO going.

I have zero idea if any of that rambling helped at all, but I felt like saying it.

Chimera245
2016-08-30, 12:38 PM
A suggestion of acronyms for our sanity:

AINPC: A.I. NPC. An NPC withing the game world. The guy who only ever stands at the gate and says "Welcome to Corneria".

NPPC: Non-Player Player Character: A PC within the game world. The guy who says "What? That kobold can do 12 damage per attack, but he only drops six gold? What a rip-off! Let's go back and farm the goblins again instead!"

Beleriphon
2016-08-30, 01:57 PM
I think one of the classics is a highly specific attack pattern from any "boss" creature, one that if the players can figure out gives them a major advantage in the battle.

UndeadArcanist
2016-08-30, 06:15 PM
This may be the first time I've seen someone actually trying to make something feel video-gamey. Way to break the mold.

8BitNinja
2016-08-30, 11:07 PM
Three words

Arbitrary
Weapon
Restrictions

Vrock_Summoner
2016-08-30, 11:12 PM
Three words

Arbitrary
Weapon
Restrictions
It's the difference between getting a penalty for not having a weapon proficiency, and literally being unable to equip the item.

In simulationist games like many TTRPGs, you get a big ol' penalty for trying to swing a sword when you don't know what you're doing.

In video game land, your class gives your body certain properties that cause non-class weapons to be repelled from you. You can lift them up with careful enough positioning, to put them in your inventory for example, but you can't directly grab them, much less wield them.

Deophaun
2016-08-30, 11:14 PM
In the middle of your session, occasionally clear the table of all books, character sheets, minis, maps, and handouts. Yell "Crash to Desktop!"

In addition to traps, there are some squares where you just fall through the world. There is no way to detect them besides falling victim to them.

All the guards in all the towns repeat the same five lines of dialog.

Periodically throughout the campaign, make sure to "Update" the game to "Rebalance" the classes. Turn at least on PC from awesome to completely incompetent. Offer to let him make a new character.

Call SWAT on your session.

Bohandas
2016-08-31, 12:47 AM
Well, for starters, I think D&D 4e would work much better for that goal than Pathfinder.


I was about to say the same thing

Bohandas
2016-08-31, 12:54 AM
Not an mmo thing, but what if you changed the rules for jump checks to allow double jumping

EDIT:
Also non-MMO, but Enlarge Person lasts until you get hit in combat and absorbs the damage from that first hit

Leewei
2016-08-31, 11:41 AM
Video games are simulations, much like tabletop games. Unlike tabletop games, video games will have limitations and glitches due to lack of a DM running the game.

If you want a tabletop game to simulate a video game, you'll want to simulate glitches, and encourage players to game the system.

Examples:
Run an encounter where some of the edge tiles are "illusions" due to glitchy collision detection. NPCs and enemies may ignore walls or vertical jumps / drops. PCs may be able to do so, as well - but the wall looks solid enough.

NPC / boss chaining where the bad guys cannot move more than 30 tiles from their original position. Doing so causes them to teleport back, lose all status effects, regain full health, and forget about the PCs.

An enemy has a rare drop. PCs must repeat the same encounter in order to "farm" an item. After the second run, just inform them how many more times they repeat it.

Race to the rare spawn! PCs must out-maneuver NPCs in order to kill a fairly trivial encounter. NPCs may engage late and try to kill-steal.

Bohandas
2016-08-31, 02:45 PM
Video games are simulations, much like tabletop games. Unlike tabletop games, video games will have limitations and glitches due to lack of a DM running the game.

If you want a tabletop game to simulate a video game, you'll want to simulate glitches, and encourage players to game the system.

Examples:
Run an encounter where some of the edge tiles are "illusions" due to glitchy collision detection. NPCs and enemies may ignore walls or vertical jumps / drops. PCs may be able to do so, as well - but the wall looks solid enough.

NPC / boss chaining where the bad guys cannot move more than 30 tiles from their original position. Doing so causes them to teleport back, lose all status effects, regain full health, and forget about the PCs.

An enemy has a rare drop. PCs must repeat the same encounter in order to "farm" an item. After the second run, just inform them how many more times they repeat it.

Race to the rare spawn! PCs must out-maneuver NPCs in order to kill a fairly trivial encounter. NPCs may engage late and try to kill-steal.

There was a feat in Munchkin D20 that entitled you to bump the game table and then resume the game with the minis (and corresponding creatures in-game) in whatever position they landed in after the bump

James_the_Giant
2016-08-31, 05:29 PM
A couple ways to make a game feel more like a video game would be:

1. Make items and inventory disappear from the character when they are placed into that characters inventory, so that they don't actually carry these items on their person. The characters then summon those items to their characters as needed.

2. You could also have every mob that the party kills drop a physical form of XP and also other loot as the 'corpse' disappears.

3. Respawn shrines are an integral part of every video game, but maybe there should be a drawback to being respawned now that the people are trapped in the video game.

4. You could make boss fights a little more formulaic like they would be in a video game, as though the creatures are following a predetermined set of instructions and timed intervals between attacks. You could also get creative with boss creatures' "special" attacks even at lower levels.

5. Depending on the players you might want to modify whatever crafting system you have so that items do not take days/weeks to make, but the characters have to forage/harvest materials themselves. Higher level items would take special materials that have to be quested for and could only be used by crafters of a certain level.

6. A common mechanic in video game rpgs is Mob Aggro and the ability to hold said aggro through abilities. Outside of those abilities Aggro can be transferred between characters by virtue of doing more damage than the other person, or a target of Aggro using stealth in combat, etc.

These are just a few ideas.

veti
2016-08-31, 07:48 PM
Most of the scenery is immovable, and can't be interacted with in any way (except as an obstacle). Things like, e.g., "blowing it up" or "setting fire to it" are physically impossible, no matter how much magic and/or explosives you use.

There are 4 types of area: Exposition, Shopping, Hostile, Fast Travel.

In an Exposition area, the party has no control of their characters and the whole scene is basically narrated to them.
In a Shopping area, there are shopkeepers and questgivers and not much else.
In a Hostile area, you should never go more than about 1 minute (game time) without an enemy spawning somewhere. (Some encounters can be evaded rather than fought, but the majority don't give you the chance.)
In a Fast Travel area, there is no way of interacting with the area at all - it only exists on the map, the players take time to pass through it but have no memory relating to it.

Cut scenes (exposition) are unskippable.

In the event of a TPK, the party will have to replay the last 15 minutes (game time) over again. Including any unskippable cut scenes - read your script through again, word for word, no shortcuts allowed.

Bohandas
2016-08-31, 09:13 PM
In a Fast Travel area, there is no way of interacting with the area at all - it only exists on the map, the players take time to pass through it but have no memory relating to it.


What about random encounters?

Bohandas
2016-08-31, 09:14 PM
A couple ways to make a game feel more like a video game would be:

1. Make items and inventory disappear from the character when they are placed into that characters inventory, so that they don't actually carry these items on their person. The characters then summon those items to their characters as needed.

And You don't need a free hand to pick things up. Just walk over them

8BitNinja
2016-09-01, 12:09 AM
Give players the ability to walk through walls at random times. No magic, no breaking wall, all noclip.

Bohandas
2016-09-01, 08:27 AM
One night's rest at an inn heals everyone completely, even without a healer

Telonius
2016-09-01, 10:26 AM
"Okay, so we're going to try to cross the mountains there..."
"Sorry, you can't."
"All right, we'll swim across that riv-"
"Nope. You need a boat."
"Okay, we chop down a tree..."
"Doesn't work."
:smallfurious:


...


"Okay, so you've blown a hole in that rock wall over there. You see a doorway!"
"Cool! We go inside."
"You see a shopkeeper. 'Care to buy some equipment?' he says."
"Er - I'm guessing .. business has been a bit slow lately?"

TurboGhast
2016-09-01, 01:05 PM
Let some illogical results of RAW (like drowning someone to heal them) work, and fluff them as odd exploits or oversights in the game that players can take advantage of.

veti
2016-09-01, 04:26 PM
What about random encounters?

There aren't any. That would be a Hostile area. Fast Travel areas may be marked or described as "hostile", but in fact nothing ever happens there - literally, nothing ever, because in reality there's no "there" for it to happen in.

You can, however, insert a 'secret' Hostile area in the middle of a Fast Travel path, roll for encounters every time the players pass through it, and only break the fast travel if there is an encounter - no encounter means the PCs can't stop there. If they use the path a lot, they will soon notice that encounters always happen in precisely the same spot (but even realising this, they still can't do anything about it).

Another one: NPCs will regularly get stuck behind perfectly simple obstacles, which it will never occur to them to walk around. (If they're following you, however, when you turn your back they will mysteriously catch up.)

Doorhandle
2016-09-02, 07:32 PM
Have Boss Monsters. Specifically, sequential boss monsters.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/9d6b5c668a795c4015dae37077635b03/tumblr_o6dccps3fH1sngiq1o1_1280.jpg

Sauce: http://66.media.tumblr.com/9d6b5c668a795c4015dae37077635b03/tumblr_o6dccps3fH1sngiq1o1_1280.jpg


Summarizing from the Angry Dm's article; Have one creature as the first form, and when it dies, replace with with another creature (possibly the same one) of the same C.R as it's second form, and so on/so forth. It should be about the same C.R as if both creatures were fighting from the start. The Boss's advantage is that only one can be killed at a time, the player's advantage is that only one is attacking at a time.

Another way to make a video-game boss is to have it's arms, legs, head and possibly body started up as different monsters, which all are part of one really big monster.

Another typical video-game boss thing is to have either something in the environment that can be used against it, or some attack they use which can be used against it.
Like being able to bull-rush the boss into the lava, or the boss throwing bombs that can be shot back at him.

Dragonexx
2016-09-02, 08:00 PM
I sorta made a boss creature that was like that a few days ago as part of my monsters thread. When fighting tiamat, for every 200 points of damage dealt, she loses a head. http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=476599#476599

Also, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but you should add some form of glitches! Exploits the players can do to get better crafting, or glitch through walls, exploit crappy AI and so forth.

The Fury
2016-09-02, 11:06 PM
I guess this was sort of alluded to in 8BitNinja's no clip suggestion, having random glitches and bugs show up that are not game-breaking but definitely distracting. Like the shopkeep is somehow levitating a few inches above the floor and the wall of a particular building didn't load properly so you can see inside, (you can see NPCs in there too, they're not doing anything though. Their dialogue and animations don't trigger unless you go inside. Through the door. Just because you can't see the wall doesn't make it not there!)

Arbane
2016-09-02, 11:10 PM
One idea I've heard: After each encounter, the GM rolls 3d6 and sets a time for that many minutes. When it goes off, the PCs get a random encounter. Yes, even if they're shopping in the middle of town, talking to the king, or ALREADY IN A FIGHT. :smallbiggrin:

(And Log Horizon is a very entertaining series. I never got into SAO, at least partially when it had a season TWO. What kind of idiot would ever use VR gear that can be set to 'microwave your brain' TWICE?!)

oxybe
2016-09-03, 02:33 AM
One idea I've heard: After each encounter, the GM rolls 3d6 and sets a time for that many minutes. When it goes off, the PCs get a random encounter. Yes, even if they're shopping in the middle of town, talking to the king, or ALREADY IN A FIGHT. :smallbiggrin:

(And Log Horizon is a very entertaining series. I never got into SAO, at least partially when it had a season TWO. What kind of idiot would ever use VR gear that can be set to 'microwave your brain' TWICE?!)

Log Horizon also discusses an interesting point about the immortality/revival system and it's repercussions: No matter how horrible your lot in life is, you can't readily suicide or die. If the town or at least church is being controlled by people who want to see you hurt, you are double screwed.

They can hurt you in however many horrible ways they want and when you die from it, their guys waiting at the respawn can just recapture your fresh body and drag you back to them for another round.

This and how they are genuinely concerned about how their presence is affecting the people of the land is what sold me on Log Horizon. Yes they're overpowered, but for the most part it's not so much about "look at how cool and OP our characters are and how they can punch out all the problems ever and have 12 waifus" and more "yes we can punch out problems, punching is not always the best, most socially acceptable or even an on the table answer, so what do?".

Chimera245
2016-09-03, 10:12 AM
I know a lot of people didn't like SAO season 2+, but I thought it was a cool idea.

Most stories stop when they resolve the Big Problem. But the show didn't end just because people finally got out of the killer video game trap. You got to see the kind of problems that SAO Survivors had, returning to the real world. And the repurcussions that SAO had on the larger world. And the other possible applications that the technology could have, which made SAO possible in the first place.

It's kind of like when a "boy meets girl" story says "The End" and rolls credits after they tell each other they like each other and start going out. Few stories actually keep going, and let you see the issues they face together as a couple, or any problems that crop up in the relationship. After the Big Triumph, the story ends, and you gotta go find something else to watch, no matter how much potential there is for more storytelling afterward.

I'm not denying all the flaws the show had, of course, like the "I'm the main character, and I have no character traits other than an unshakable willpower and determination" trap that Kirito fell into.

But that one thing it did right. It showed us what happened after. I think it took guts on the storywriter's part to end the Sword Art Online part of a show/manga called "Sword Art Online", and let the story extend into Alfheim Online, and Gun Gale Online. And it did a good job of making it feel like they were in different games now. Things like how the menus looked, or what kinds of mechanics the players dealt with.

Sure, it had problems, but it also had its good parts, and a lot of people are overlooking them.

Braininthejar2
2016-09-03, 11:14 AM
And of course, the verbal component for any spell is the spell's name.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dxICJHd518

Bohandas
2016-09-04, 08:20 PM
Have Boss Monsters. Specifically, sequential boss monsters.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/9d6b5c668a795c4015dae37077635b03/tumblr_o6dccps3fH1sngiq1o1_1280.jpg

Sauce: http://66.media.tumblr.com/9d6b5c668a795c4015dae37077635b03/tumblr_o6dccps3fH1sngiq1o1_1280.jpg


Summarizing from the Angry Dm's article; Have one creature as the first form, and when it dies, replace with with another creature (possibly the same one) of the same C.R as it's second form, and so on/so forth. It should be about the same C.R as if both creatures were fighting from the start. The Boss's advantage is that only one can be killed at a time, the player's advantage is that only one is attacking at a time.


2e Aurak draconians actually kind of already worked like that

bulbaquil
2016-09-05, 06:47 PM
And of course, the verbal component for any spell is the spell's name.

But naturally! How could it be otherwise?

And the somatic component always involves waving your arm in a huge circle.

8BitNinja
2016-09-05, 09:09 PM
Makw sure reputation does not affect shop prices.

Bohandas
2016-09-07, 12:42 AM
Let some illogical results of RAW (like drowning someone to heal them) work

Is there a tabletop RPG where the RAW could be interpreted that way, or is that purely something from videogames?

8BitNinja
2016-09-07, 01:49 AM
Allow the clothes off an NPC's back to be pickpocketed.

Leewei
2016-09-07, 09:52 AM
Allow the clothes off an NPC's back to be pickpocketed.

I approve of this idea!

Telonius
2016-09-07, 01:16 PM
There are lots of unlocked treasure chests lying around. The PCs are the only characters capable of opening them.

If the PCs barge into the queen's bedroom, no one considers this unusual or rude. Ditto for walking into any random peasant's house and rummaging through their belongings.

Full-scale pillaging of the royal treasury will be met with a shrug.

Braininthejar2
2016-09-07, 03:53 PM
There are lots of unlocked treasure chests lying around. The PCs are the only characters capable of opening them.

If the PCs barge into the queen's bedroom, no one considers this unusual or rude. Ditto for walking into any random peasant's house and rummaging through their belongings.

Full-scale pillaging of the royal treasury will be met with a shrug.

As long as they defeat the golem guardians.

8BitNinja
2016-09-07, 09:00 PM
All chests contain 1 item or a stack of one item

Bohandas
2016-09-07, 11:57 PM
There are lots of unlocked treasure chests lying around. The PCs are the only characters capable of opening them.

If the PCs barge into the queen's bedroom, no one considers this unusual or rude. Ditto for walking into any random peasant's house and rummaging through their belongings.

And the same goes for smashing random objects

Bohandas
2016-09-08, 12:01 AM
You can carry as much weight as you want - one million bolts? no problem - but you can only carry a limited number of different types of object. So you could carry a million identical crossbow bolts, but you could not carry 30 crossbow bolts that all had different enhancements and specials

Edit:
Except for when trying to carry more than 255 of something causes all of them to disappear

8BitNinja
2016-09-09, 01:17 AM
A pearl takes up as much space as a breastplate.

CoreBrute23
2016-09-09, 01:24 AM
The skimpier the armour, the more AC it gives...wait that's actually a DnD thing.

Colour coordinated armour is more effective and unlocks special bonuses.

TurboGhast
2016-09-09, 07:14 AM
Is there a tabletop RPG where the RAW could be interpreted that way, or is that purely something from videogames?

3.5 SRD on drowning (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Environment#Drowning)

Your HP is set to 0 when you start drowning, and this can get you back up from extreme negative hp relatively easily. I'm not sure if pathfinder changed this, though.

8BitNinja
2016-09-11, 12:29 AM
Elemental Type Advantage

Knaight
2016-09-11, 03:18 PM
Elemental Type Advantage

D&D's already got this covered.

Bohandas
2016-09-11, 05:54 PM
You can put the urgent mission of immediate importance on hold indefinitely and it won't matter or affect your ability to complete it.

awa
2016-09-11, 06:06 PM
D&D's already got this covered.

yheah but a lot of video games push the elemental weakness a lot harder, like all undead being vulnerable to fire or most flying and water creatures being vulnerable to electricity. Very few d&d monsters have an elemental weakness

Knaight
2016-09-11, 11:32 PM
yheah but a lot of video games push the elemental weakness a lot harder, like all undead being vulnerable to fire or most flying and water creatures being vulnerable to electricity. Very few d&d monsters have an elemental weakness

Elemental weaknesses and resistances are routine, and D&D honestly feels more videogamey in regards to the sheer volume of types than is common in videogames with typing. It's got this covered.

Bohandas
2016-09-11, 11:57 PM
You can put the urgent mission of immediate importance on hold indefinitely and it won't matter or affect your ability to complete it.
Now that I think of it, the most severe instance of this I've encpuntered was actually in a videogame based on D&D. In Champions of Krynn you can actually rest - successfully - during the middle a chase scene at the end of the first dungeon (and in an area supposedly bustling with enemy troops to boot). The confrontations and encounters in the chase are keyed entirely to your location; you'll always catch up to or be attacked by the same minions at the same time and you'll always just miss catching the BBEG no matter what you do.

8BitNinja
2016-09-12, 06:57 AM
There is only one of a vehicle in the entire world, you get it for free, and there is an entire corporation who keeps maintenance of it.

Bohandas
2016-09-12, 08:39 AM
Or conversely ALL vehicles are useless exploding props

awa
2016-09-12, 08:14 PM
Elemental weaknesses and resistances are routine, and D&D honestly feels more videogamey in regards to the sheer volume of types than is common in videogames with typing. It's got this covered.

resistance is common, weakness is a lot more rare and almost entirely in elemental s you rarely see the final fantasy style of its a bird so it has vulnerability to lightning attacks or whatever

just using the srd
the roper, mummy and treant are the only creatures with an elemental vulnerability without a direct tie to an element

frost giant we can include becuase at least they don't have a cold based attack

so out of the srd it looks like only a fraction of monsters without a direct elemental tie have an elemental weakness.
But if i was playing a fantasy video game i would expect most water monsters merfolk and sharks and so to have an electrical vulnerability. I would expect almost all plants to be vulnerable to fire but that's just not how d&d works

8BitNinja
2016-09-13, 02:42 AM
There is a prophecy that a great evil would rise in 1000 years and it just so happens to be 999 years and 9 months from that day you come along, the people who are prophesied heroes.

But there is a few they fear...

In their tounge, they are known as Dovahkiin

DRAGONBORNS!

Feuerphoenix
2016-09-15, 07:04 AM
Tell Them how important their quest is, and they Need to hurry, But when they take your time, nothing bad happens! And the Bad guys always wait until the heros Are strong enough to have a chance!!😂😂

8BitNinja
2016-09-16, 11:55 PM
The leader of the the group terrorizing the town will die if one of the later grunts so much as farts on him.

Cluedrew
2016-09-17, 07:08 AM
You know maybe we shouldn't be focusing so much on the things that don't make sense in video games so much.

I mean... well the main, non-gimmicky discussion has died down, however there are certain elements you may want to use, and others you may not. For instance NPCs, having NPCs stick to very defined conversation paths is very video gamey. But at the same time it isn't very fun. So you may want to say that the game that we are just far enough in the future that they have these powerful "realistic actors algorithms" that makes NPCs more realistic than our modern pre-scripted ones. Maybe they still don't remember you between conversations, maybe they do (maybe only some of them do). It might not mimic the strange idioms we like to make fun of, but on the other hand those might not be the ones you want to use.

Bohandas
2016-09-18, 12:16 AM
The dungeons are randomly generated (there's a table for this in the Dragon Magazine Compendium btw)

Kelb_Panthera
2016-09-18, 02:37 AM
The dungeons are randomly generated (there's a table for this in the Dragon Magazine Compendium btw)

There's also quite a number of mobile apps, too.

8BitNinja
2016-09-18, 03:31 AM
The dungeons are randomly generated (there's a table for this in the Dragon Magazine Compendium btw)


There's also quite a number of mobile apps, too.

Could someone please give me links?

Braininthejar2
2016-09-18, 10:27 AM
The best artifact weapons can only be gained through silly side-quests (carnival optional)

Kelb_Panthera
2016-09-18, 12:33 PM
Could someone please give me links?

Just hop on the playstore, search "D&D map tools" and try a few. Only just started trying them myself. Only got a group together recently after several years of dry spell.

8BitNinja
2016-09-19, 11:25 PM
Chocobo Racing or some equivalent.

One made up card game played globally.

CoreBrute23
2016-09-20, 02:02 AM
Chocobo Racing or some equivalent.

This should be in most tabletop games anyway.


One made up card game played globally.
You'll know you've made it as an adventurer when your face or escapades end up in the card game. Then you get nerfed, and it's a whole quest to get vengeance on the creators.

Braininthejar2
2016-09-20, 12:25 PM
You'll know you've made it as an adventurer when your face or escapades end up in the card game. Then you get nerfed, and it's a whole quest to get vengeance on the creators.

http://media-seawolf.cursecdn.com/avatars/1/883/566icon.png

8BitNinja
2016-09-20, 05:12 PM
This should be in most tabletop games anyway.

How? All competitive things in TRPGs are turn based strategy because they have to be. How would you conduct Chocobo racing?

CoreBrute23
2016-09-21, 02:34 AM
I'm sure there are racing mechanics for DnD somewhere-what's the ride skill for anyway, if not for jumping on ostrich wannabes for competition? Fate can do it through contest mechanics, so I'm sure other systems can too.

Besides, even if it's just in the background, racing fantasy creatures is just such a cool idea, whether it's Unicorns, Worgs or Dragons. Someone will have tried racing them at some point.

*When I said it should be in every game, that's just a personal opinion, feel free to disregard it, if it doesn't mesh well with your own ideas.

Knaight
2016-09-21, 09:26 PM
How? All competitive things in TRPGs are turn based strategy because they have to be. How would you conduct Chocobo racing?

You can have races, chases, and other things that aren't turn based just fine. See: combat.

8BitNinja
2016-09-21, 11:33 PM
You can have races, chases, and other things that aren't turn based just fine. See: combat.

Oh, never mind. Thank you

bulbaquil
2016-09-24, 11:23 AM
You'll know you've made it as an adventurer when your face or escapades end up in the card game. Then you get nerfed, and it's a whole quest to get vengeance on the creators.

On that note, the GM should randomly take up everyone's character sheets, add and subtract a bunch of arbitrary modifiers to various stats, then hand them back and say "New patch was released."

8BitNinja
2016-09-25, 01:25 AM
If someone gets a weapon past +10, make the weapon's base damage weaker.

Nerf the crap out of the game.