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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Songs of the Bards: Expanded Bardic Music Options



Zaydos
2016-09-05, 07:13 PM
So I like music (whatever child me would have said). It helps me think, it urges me to create. It serves as muse and one could even say it inspires. I like bards, though I must say I'm not a fan of how they're so often mages first and musicians second. Where is this going? I want more options to focus on being a musician, a bard :elan: and not just a fighter/sorcerer/rogue :nale:

So I have decided to call upon the powers of darkness (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCuL-K39eQ) to inspire me to create (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHfE682mm3c) songs of power (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n63UbX5kzAc). So feel free to join me in my little bard call (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvajtyyAN-s) as we see what muse (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9D71pQaTnc) if any decides to give us answer.

This opening post will be kept to serve as an index if other people decide to join in, and so if I decide to add things later I don't need to have reserved n posts to keep it where you can find things, just link stuff to the OP. So come and bring me your musical creations :xykon:

And I will start us off with 9 14 feats in the post below.

BrewCreatorDescription
Bardic Music Feats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21173406&postcount=2)Zaydos14 or so feats dealing with bardic music
Dirge of the Many Faced Knife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21204575&postcount=7)ObliviMancerBardic Music feat for assassination.
Aria of True Flight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21260908&postcount=11)ObliviMancerBardic Music feat to inspire flight and archery.
The Reaper's Tune (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21261072&postcount=12)ZaydosBardic Music feat to make the dead dance.
Bardic Orchestra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21272636&postcount=16)RemetagrossPlay multiple bardic performances at once on as many instruments as you can lay hands on
Focused Musicologist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21272687&postcount=17)RemetagrossDelay spellcasting for 6 additional bardic songs and 12 additional daily uses.

Zaydos
2016-09-05, 07:14 PM
Ballad of the Dragon Slayer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djDCJM8DsWA)
Your song weakens those greatest of monsters, sealing the strength of dragons and bringing them low for the blades of men.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music, Perform 9 ranks.
Benefit: You gain the Ballad of the Dragon Slayer bardic music ability. Initiating a Ballad of the Dragon Slayer is a full-round action (costing 1 bardic music performance for the day). Any dragon or dragonblood within 30 ft of you that can hear this song must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Cha modifier) or be unable to use any breath weapon they possess for as long as they can hear this song and for 5 rounds thereafter. Dragons which fail their save suffer additional penalties taking a penalty to attack rolls and AC equal to the bonus from your Inspire Courage (or what it would be if you have for some reason traded it away) for the duration. This is a mind-affecting effect. You may only perform a Ballad of the Dragon Slayer for a number of minutes equal to your bard level.

Charming Song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSpuVsLnl1k)
You have learned to sing songs which entrap the mind and seduce the will of humanoids, making them see you as their fondest of friends.
[b]Prerequisites: Bardic Music, Perform 12 ranks.
Benefit: You learn to perform a Charming Song as a form of Bardic Music. This song affects the minds of humanoid creatures that can hear it. Any humanoid creature within 60 ft of the bard when the bard begins this song that can hear this song must make a Will save (DC 10 + bard level + Cha modifier). If they fail they suffer a -4 penalty to attack rolls and saving throw DCs of their abilities against the bard and, unless they have been attacked or threatened by the bard or their allies within the last hour, has their disposition towards the bard immediately improves by one step (to a maximum of friendly) for 1 hour. If a humanoid creature that was within 60 ft of the bard when the bard began this song and failed their Will save hears the bard sing it for 3 consecutive rounds they are charmed as if by the spell Charm Person for 1 hour/bard level. It requires a standard action each round to maintain this song. This song is a mind-affecting effect.
Special: The bardic music performance granted by this feat is a spell-like ability the equivalent of a 5th level Enchantment (charm) effect.
Special: A bard with Knowledge (nature) 12 ranks, and the ability to speak Sylvan may choose to gain this song in place of Inspire Greatness at 9th level.

Draconium's Song of Hoard Warding (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdOahSHDpUc)
You have learned the ancient draconic songs of hoard warding those songs of the dragons that they used in the primal world to protect their hoards from the proto-humanoids that would eventually become elves.
[b]Prerequisites: Perform 6 ranks, and either Bardic Music or being a True Dragon.
Benefit: You gain two new uses of bardic music. In the first you may perform while pacing around an area of up to one 5-ft square per rank in Perform you possess in a ritual that takes 10 minutes and one use of your bardic music ability. Once you have finished for the next 4 hours per bard level if any object within the area is removed from the area you are instantly mentally alerted to this fact (as if with an alarm spell) as long as you are on the same plane.

In the second you may perform to an object for 1 full round and cause it to animate and follow you for as long as you sing. This costs one use of your bardic music ability and the object may be no larger than medium plus one size category per 4 bard levels. This object does not fight, it simply moves to remain as close to you as possible and takes no other actions. The object will follow you as long as you continue to sing and remain on the same plane taking the most direct route. If it runs into an impassable region it will attempt to detour around it to get to you. You must be adjacent to an object when you begin this song, or it must be within the warded area of this feat's first use. A locked door animated by this ability will not unlock itself to get to you, and the object may not be merely a portion of a larger intact object.
Special: A true dragon with this feat may use its abilities 1/day per age category and uses their character level plus any bard levels in place of their bard level for its effects.
Special: A 3rd level dragonblood bard may choose to gain the ability to perform these songs instead of Inspire Competence.[/QUOTE]


Harmonizing Familiar [General]
Your familiar is able to provide harmonization or even back up 'vocals' for your bardic music.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music, ability to summon a familiar, Perform (song) 6 ranks.
Benefit: Your familiar may sing with you when you perform Bardic Music increasing your effective bard level for that song by 3 at the cost of an additional daily use of bardic music.

In addition your familiar may perform bardic music, using its natural calls and sounds to 'sing', in your stead. If it does so it still costs you a use of bardic music but it does not cost you an action and you may perform actions while your familiar sings, including your own bardic music performance. Your familiar may only perform bardic music abilities as if it had 6 less levels of bard than you do, so it may only use those which are available to a bard 6 levels lower and the effects are likewise reduced. Your familiar takes a -5 penalty to any Perform check made as part of the bardic music performance because although it may have the technical skill to perform the song the song's power is only an echo of what it would be for a true bard of such skill.

illyahr's Song of Skill
You have learned a song which you sing to yourself to perform tasks of daring and success.
[B]Prerequisites: Bardic Music, Perform 3 ranks.
Benefit: Select an ability score other than Charisma. You can expend one daily use of your bardic music ability as a swift action to perform a Song of Skill. For as long as you perform this song of skill, and for 1 minute afterwards, you gain a +3 bonus to all skill checks based on that ability score. This is considered a bardic music performance and follows the normal rules for them.

If you use Inspire Competence on a creature they gain a +3 competence bonus to all skill checks based upon the chosen ability score, this stacks with the +2 competence bonus from Inspire Competence if the inspired skill is based upon the chosen ability score.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, each time you must choose a different ability score, but you do not have to choose which ability score to boost when you use the Song of Skill it instead boosts all skills associated with all chosen ability scores.

Luring Song: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t8-_pI1-9Q) [Bardic Music]
You have learned to sing as the sirens do, luring foes to you or their deaths.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks, Perform 8 ranks, ability to speak Aquan or Sylvan.
Benefit: You learn to perform a Luring Song which lures their foes towards you, pulling them closer with nothing but the sound of your voice as a form of Bardic Music. When you begin this song you must choose a single creature that can hear them and they have line of sight to, that creature must make a Will save (DC 10 + bard level + Cha modifier) or be compelled to approach you. The creature must move towards you with a double move action each round by the most direct route possible, this is not necessarily a straight line if another route is obviously quicker (for example they will walk around the 5-ft pit). They are allowed to use tumble and/or withdraw actions to mitigate attacks of opportunity, but this effect may pull a creature through dangerous and damaging terrain such as walls of fire. At the end of their turn each round the target may make another Will save to end this effect, and if a creature moves adjacent to you, or as close as physically possible they are freed from the effect. Otherwise the effect lasts as long as you continue to sing (a standard action each round). This is a mind-affecting effect.
Special: This feats granted song is a Spell-like ability equivalent of a 3rd level Enchantment (compulsion) spell.

Planeswalker's Song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfEjKBPZNYU) [Bardic Music]
Your song thins the walls of reality and makes one world bleed into another, transporting those creatures nearby from your world to one far distant.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, Knowledge (the Planes) 15 ranks, Perform 15 ranks.
Benefit: You gain the Planeswalker's Song bardic music ability. When you take this feat or gain this ability select 2 planes plus 1 plane per 5 ranks of Knowledge (the Planes) you possess, you know how to perform a Planeswalker's Song for those planes and only those planes, if your ranks in Knowledge (the Planes) increases after getting this ability to a number divisible by 5 you learn another plane; different prime material worlds are learned as individual planes. Performing a planeswalker's song costs 3 daily uses of your bardic music ability and requires 5 rounds to initiate and 5 more rounds to finish during which time you may take no other actions. When you begin a Planeswalker's Song select a plane (other than the one you are on) and a location on its first layer (or on it if it does not have layers). After 5 rounds you and all creatures within 30 ft vanish from the plane you are on and appear in the Astral Plane at a random location. After another 5 rounds you all appear 5d% miles away from your intended location in your relative positions and with the benefits of an [i]Avoid Planar Effects[/url] (SpC, PlH, MoP) for 1 round per bard level. If you are interrupted during your performance of this song on the Astral Plane if it is on the first round of performance on the Astral Plane you are all adrift in the Astral Plane until you find a way to leave (such as this song again), if it is on the 2nd or later round you all appear at a random location on the intended plane scattered in random directions within 1d% miles of a central point.
Special: A planetouched bard gains knowledge of an additional plane with this ability and may choose to learn how to perform a Planeswalker's Song instead of a Song of Freedom at 12th level.

[B]Psalm of the Valiant Remnant (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMN6CuB6R1c)
Your song can bolster friend and ally to provide them with a measure of that grace that your devotion has provided you.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, Divine Grace, Perform 6 ranks.
Benefit: You gain the Psalm of the Valiant Remnant bardic music ability. Initiating a Psalm of the Valiant Remnant is a swift action (costing 1 bardic music performance for the day). Allies (excluding yourself) which can hear you gain a morale bonus to saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier for as long as they can hear your performance and 5 rounds thereafter. You may perform a Psalm of the Valiant Remnant for 1 round per rank of (your highest ranked) Perform skill.

Ravenwatch Chant (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC6OKIYXBxQ) [Bardic Music]
You are able to perform the Ravenwatch Chant of the Spearpeak Dwarves, a chant to keep the spirits of death themselves at bay.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, and either Perform (song or oratory) 12 ranks and Heal 6 ranks or Perform (song or oratory) 9 ranks and Dwarf.
Benefit: You gain the Ravenwatch Chant bardic music ability. Initiating a Ravenwatch Chant is a standard action (costing 1 bardic music performance for the day) and continuing it is a move action each round. While you chant a Ravenwatch Chant and for 3 rounds creatures within 5 ft per 2 ranks in Perform (song or oratory) you possess cannot die. If they would die they are reduced to -10 hp, or whatever hp they'd have been reduced to by the attack, alive and unconscious instead, lose any fast healing they possess, and remain unconscious until they have at least 1 hp once more even if normally able to remain conscious at negative hit points. This does not stop bodily destruction, and if a body is destroyed (for example a Disintegrate or Destruction spell is used) mere cure spells will not work although a Regenerate spell will allow the regrowth of the body, it merely keeps the soul attached and creatures nearby 'alive'. If the creature does not have a body that can survive when this song's effect wears off, or you (or their body) moves out of range, they die immediately. Creatures which do not die but are destroyed (constructs and undead) are not protected by this chant. You may only perform a Ravenwatch Chant for a number of rounds equal to your ranks in Perform.
Special: A 6th level dwarven bard with at least 9 ranks in perform may select to gain the ability to perform a Ravenwatch Chant instead of gaining the ability to use their Bardic Music to perform a Suggestion, if they do so they gain Suggestion instead of Mass Suggestion at 18th level.

Song of Magic's End: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h8hjtFSTSc) [Bardic Music]
You are able to sing a song that creates an area of magical interference cancelling out the magical power of all who come within range.
Prerequisites: Spellbreaker Song or Song of Freedom, Perform (any musical) 15 ranks.
Benefit: By expending two uses of your bardic music ability, and a full round action to initiate, you may perform a Song of Magic's End. This is considered a bardic music performance, and is considered a spell-like ability (6th level, abjuration). While a bard performs a Song of Magic's End they are surrounded by an anti-magic field out to a number of feet equal to their ranks in perform + 2; if this distance is not divisible by 5 round down to the nearest distance measurable in 5' (15-17 ranks = 15 ft, 18-22 ranks = 20 ft, 23-27 ranks = 25 ft, 28-32 ranks = 30 ft and so forth). A bard may perform a Song of Magic's End for up to 1 minute per rank in Perform.
Special: A bard with Spellbreaker Song or Song of Freedom and at least 15 ranks in Perform may select to gain the ability to sing a Song of Magic's End instead of Inspire Heroics at 15th level.

Song of Many Faced Mal:
Many Faced Mal was a lesser known changeling 'hero' known for the dozens of shape they lived in, and the story tells of how they averted war using their shifting faces and impersonating a half dozen or more major military figures. Infusing the song with a bit of magic you give your allies a glimpse at the sort of life a changeling leads.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music, Perform 6 ranks, Minor Shapechange.
Benefit: You gain the Song of Many Faced Mal bardic music ability. Activating this bardic music requires 1 minute of singing and a single use of your bardic music ability. You may transform any humanoid or outsider (native) creature which listens to the entire song as if they had used your minor shapechange ability. They remain in this new shape for 10 minutes + 10 minutes per 3 bard levels you possess. You may maintain the song for up to 5 minutes with a single use, transforming any humanoid or outsider (native) creature that listens to at least one entire minute of it. Affected creatures still make their own disguise checks (because much of a disguise check is acting the part and not merely physical appearance) but they gain the +10 from minor shapechange and +1 for every 3 more ranks you possess in disguise than they do.
Special: A 3rd level changeling bard with at least 6 ranks in Perform may select to gain the ability to sing the Song of Many Faced Mal instead of Inspire Competence.

Soothe the Beast's Heart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBU2IJ1Mnjw) [General]
Your songs stir the hearts of even the most ferocious, or mindless, beasts.
Prerequisites: Perform (any) 9 ranks, Bardic Music.
Benefit: Your mind-affecting bardic music abilities may affect vermin. Your language-dependent bardic music abilities may affect animals, magical beasts, and vermin even if you do not share a language with them, however any commands must be relatively simplistic. Finally you may use a Perform check at -5 as if it were Wild Empathy for dealing with animals and magical beasts (taking another -4 when dealing with magical beasts) and may even use it to influence vermin by taking another -8.

Spellsurge Rhyme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGczmeOnKNQ) [Bardic Music]
You are able to perform a quick little couplet, limerick, or few strands of music which causes an upswelling of magical energy to aid or hinder the casting of a spell.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music, Perform 6 ranks.
Benefit: You gain the Spellsurge Rhyme bardic music ability. By readying an action (a standard action) to use your Spellsurge Rhyme when a creature casts a spell (or uses a spell-like ability), and using a use of bardic music, you may grant the creature casting the spell a +1 bonus to their caster level, or inflict upon them a -1 penalty to their caster level. If your bard level for the purposes of Inspire Courage is at least 8 the bonus or penalty from this ability increases by 1, it increases again at 14th and 20th level (to a maximum of +/- 4 at 20th).
Special: A 1st level bard may choose to gain the ability to use a Spellsurge Rhyme in place of Inspire Courage (not that it's advised).

Traveler's March: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owF60WWWrks) [Bardic Music]
You are able to perform a march or chant which spurs your allies on to greater speeds and longer marches.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music, Perform 6 ranks.
Benefit: As a use of bardic music, and a full round action to initiate, you may perform a traveler's march. Allies which can hear you gain a +10-ft enhancement to their speed, this benefit lasts as long as the bard performs and 5 rounds thereafter. This song has additional benefits for those traveling long distances as one falls into a proper march, instead of +1 mph (as a +10-ft enhancement would normally grant) creatures which travel without interruption while under the effect of this song for at least 1 hour gain a +2 mph improvement to their base overland travel rate (before modifiers for terrain and the like) and a +2 bonus to Constitution checks against forced march, this bonus increases by +2 per 6 bard levels. A bard may continue to perform a traveler's march for up to 10 minutes per rank in Perform after which time they must rest their voice or fingers for a bit.
Special: A 3rd level bard with at least 6 ranks in Perform may select to gain the ability to sing a Traveler's March instead of Inspire Competence.

Eno Remnant
2016-09-06, 01:54 AM
Psalm of the Valiant Remnant (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMN6CuB6R1c)
Your song can bolster friend and ally to provide them with a measure of that grace that your devotion has provided you.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, Divine Grace, Perform 6 ranks.
Benefit: You gain the Psalm of the Valiant Remnant bardic music ability. Initiating a Psalm of the Valiant Remnant is a swift action (costing 1 bardic music performance for the day). Allies (excluding yourself) which can hear you gain a morale bonus to saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier for as long as they can hear your performance and 5 rounds thereafter. You may perform a Psalm of the Valiant Remnant for 1 round per rank of (your highest ranked) Perform skill.

Spreading the love and bringing the rock? Beautiful. I don't think I could love this more and I absolutely have to play a Bardadin with this.

Zaydos
2016-09-06, 01:56 AM
Spreading the love and bringing the rock? Beautiful. I don't think I could love this more and I absolutely have to play a Bardadin with this.

Well I may have been thinking of you when I made it.

Eno Remnant
2016-09-06, 01:59 AM
Well I may have been thinking of you when I made it.


Psalm of the Valiant Remnant


Valiant Remnant


Remnant


You don't say :smallamused:

Zaydos
2016-09-06, 02:11 AM
Had to make it obvious in some way. This does remind me I still need to make naval paladin substitution levels (there will be skill monkey elements and divine grace will have an option to be foolishly traded away).

ShiningStarling
2016-09-15, 03:25 AM
Dirge of the Many-Faced Knife (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1NN9rnNpEQ) Because I hate the Assassin class.
You sing a haunting melody that many witnesses and individuals returned to life claim was the last thing victims ever heard. No one has ever identified a person singing this horrid tune, as most who might die soon after.
[B]Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, Perform (sing or oratory) 12 ranks, Disguise 12 ranks or ability to cast Disguise Self, Sneak Attack +3d6
Benefit: You learn a new song that may be used with a daily use of your Bardic Music, called the Dirge of the Many-Faced Knife. This song may be started as a full-round action, and may be sung as long as you are not fatigued, maintaining it as a free action each round, until you attack your target. While you sing this song, your face is completely nondescript to any onlookers, allowing you to take 20 on your Disguise check versus Spot checks made to identify you. In addition, you choose a target mentally when you start singing. You must know the target's face and name. If you can make a melee attack on the target without them seeing you for who you are, your attack will crit and catch them flat-footed, even if they cannot normally be caught flat-footed. If they fail a Will save with a DC equal to your Perform (sing or oratory) check, made when you attack, then your attack deals maximum damage on all dice rolled for damage, plus the result of the Perform check in sonic damage.
Special: This works even on creatures normally immune to crits, precision damage, or mind-affecting effects (albeit possessing any of these grants the target a cumulative +4 bonus on their Will save), but if the target possesses all three immunities, then the attack deals normal damage. Deaf creatures gain a +4 bonus on the Will save as well.

nonsi
2016-10-01, 01:17 AM
Dirge of the Many-Faced Knife (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1NN9rnNpEQ) Because I hate the Assassin class.
You sing a haunting melody that many witnesses and individuals returned to life claim was the last thing victims ever heard. No one has ever identified a person singing this horrid tune, as most who might die soon after.
[B]Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, Perform (sing or oratory) 12 ranks, Disguise 12 ranks or ability to cast Disguise Self, Sneak Attack +3d6
Benefit: You learn a new song that may be used with a daily use of your Bardic Music, called the Dirge of the Many-Faced Knife. This song may be started as a full-round action, and may be sung as long as you are not fatigued, maintaining it as a free action each round, until you attack your target. While you sing this song, your face is completely nondescript to any onlookers, allowing you to take 20 on your Disguise check versus Spot checks made to identify you. In addition, you choose a target mentally when you start singing. You must know the target's face and name. If you can make a melee attack on the target without them seeing you for who you are, your attack will crit and catch them flat-footed, even if they cannot normally be caught flat-footed. If they fail a Will save with a DC equal to your Perform (sing or oratory) check, made when you attack, then your attack deals maximum damage on all dice rolled for damage, plus the result of the Perform check in sonic damage.
Special: This works even on creatures normally immune to crits, precision damage, or mind-affecting effects (albeit possessing any of these grants the target a cumulative +4 bonus on their Will save), but if the target possesses all three immunities, then the attack deals normal damage. Deaf creatures gain a +4 bonus on the Will save as well.

Very nice :smallsmile:
Would it be ok if I tweak this in my overhaul project?

ShiningStarling
2016-10-01, 03:26 AM
Very nice :smallsmile:
Would it be ok if I tweak this in my overhaul project?

Sure thing! I love it when I hear that kinda stuff! *squee*

Any thoughts on similar things that could be turned into songs? I have like one idea right now, but still trying to figure out what to do with it.

nonsi
2016-10-01, 04:30 AM
Sure thing! I love it when I hear that kinda stuff! *squee*

Any thoughts on similar things that could be turned into songs? I have like one idea right now, but still trying to figure out what to do with it.

I wish I had. Every drop of inspiration I had on bardic performance went into my Bard remake. Whatever I have to offer is already there for the taking.
But if something comes up, I'll share.

ShiningStarling
2016-10-01, 04:41 PM
Aria of True Flight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRJNiBgWovo)
You sing a song that lifts the spirits of your team, literally.
Prerequisites: Bardic Music ability, Perform (any) 10 ranks
Benefit: You may spend a use of your Bardic Music ability as a standard action to sing the Aria of True Flight. Maintaining the song takes at least a move action each round, to a maximum duration of 5 minutes. The song affects allies who can hear you within 120 ft. While you sing it, any ally that casts a spell granting a fly speed automatically has the spell Extended at no additional level cost. Any ally with a fly speed gains a 15 foot morale bonus to their fly speed, and has their maneuverability increased by one step. Any ranged attacks made by your allies gain a +2 morale bonus to hit, deal 1d6 additional sonic damage, and ignore partial cover and partial concealment.

Zaydos
2016-10-01, 05:56 PM
Nice work, ObliviMancer.

The Reaper's Tune (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyknBTm_YyM) [Bardic Music]
Your play the graveyard song of Death itself, causing the dead to rise and dance (or kill) along with your will.
Prerequisites: Inspire Courage ability, Perform 12 ranks.
Benefit: When you use Inspire Courage you may choose to forgo its normal effect to instead duplicate an animate dead spell upon one or more corpse within 60 ft. These corpses may only animate as skeletons, and remain animate only for the duration of the Inspire Courage effect. In addition they, and any allied undead within range, gain 1/2 the bonus that would be granted by your Inspire Courage ability as an untyped bonus and a competence bonus to Perform (Dance) checks equal to twice the bonus from your Inspire Courage (this is twice the unhalved number).

remetagross
2016-10-04, 04:00 AM
Those feats are indeed a very nice way to bring Bards to be more focused on bardic music; however, feats are still feats, with feat slots few and far between. I could see a Bard take one, maybe two; but I think that most of its versatility will still come from spells.
That may not be a bad thing, though; but maybe a way to further tip the balance towards the music would be to allow the Bard to trade some spell slots against those feats. This could take one of several forms :
-Forgoing one spell known and one spell per day in exchange of one of those feats; the level of the spell being equal to the level of the highest-level spell a Bard can cast when it is able to take the feat at its soonest.
-For each feat, chosen the normal way, and in fact for all bardic music powers, expanding a spell per day of the level calculated as shown before allows you to start using the feat's effect even if you have another bardic music power on which you are already concentrating; provided the type of actions needed to make those two (or more) bardic music effects carry on each turn do not overlap.

ShiningStarling
2016-10-04, 12:16 PM
Those feats are indeed a very nice way to bring Bards to be more focused on bardic music; however, feats are still feats, with feat slots few and far between. I could see a Bard take one, maybe two; but I think that most of its versatility will still come from spells.
That may not be a bad thing, though; but maybe a way to further tip the balance towards the music would be to allow the Bard to trade some spell slots against those feats. This could take one of several forms :
-Forgoing one spell known and one spell per day in exchange of one of those feats; the level of the spell being equal to the level of the highest-level spell a Bard can cast when it is able to take the feat at its soonest.
-For each feat, chosen the normal way, and in fact for all bardic music powers, expanding a spell per day of the level calculated as shown before allows you to start using the feat's effect even if you have another bardic music power on which you are already concentrating; provided the type of actions needed to make those two (or more) bardic music effects carry on each turn do not overlap.

I mean... myself I would make Bard songs like Rogue Talents in PF, you get them every other level just cause you're a Bard, but I feel bards don't get enough songs so yeah. (though I have seen the spell cost done before and have no real issue with it except that it weakens the bard.)

Zaydos
2016-10-04, 12:26 PM
Those feats are indeed a very nice way to bring Bards to be more focused on bardic music; however, feats are still feats, with feat slots few and far between. I could see a Bard take one, maybe two; but I think that most of its versatility will still come from spells.
That may not be a bad thing, though; but maybe a way to further tip the balance towards the music would be to allow the Bard to trade some spell slots against those feats. This could take one of several forms :
-Forgoing one spell known and one spell per day in exchange of one of those feats; the level of the spell being equal to the level of the highest-level spell a Bard can cast when it is able to take the feat at its soonest.
-For each feat, chosen the normal way, and in fact for all bardic music powers, expanding a spell per day of the level calculated as shown before allows you to start using the feat's effect even if you have another bardic music power on which you are already concentrating; provided the type of actions needed to make those two (or more) bardic music effects carry on each turn do not overlap.

It's not a bad idea, if you want to type of the variant and post it here I'll link it in the OP (I mean I could link the above post, just thought you might want to clean it up a bit). One of the feats (Luring Song) actually was originally going to be part of a (Naval) Substitution Level which traded getting a new spell at that level for an extra song, I just decided to make it a feat when I added it to the feat dump after taking down the sub levels, because it'd have been weird to just float there.


I mean... myself I would make Bard songs like Rogue Talents in PF, you get them every other level just cause you're a Bard, but I feel bards don't get enough songs so yeah. (though I have seen the spell cost done before and have no real issue with it except that it weakens the bard.)

I'd say done carefully it probably strengthens the bard but you'd need to make sure you have the spells you need already, and not trade off asap. That said I actually rather like the 10 songs one. I'd guess Suggestion gets moved up 1 level, Song of Freedom down 1, Mass Suggestion erm down 1, and then you'd get a song at 3rd, 9th, 13th, and 19th so four more songs.

remetagross
2016-10-05, 06:20 AM
Man Band (Alternative Class Feature)

You have learned to play several instruments at once, and this allows you to create complex magical melodies.

Bardic Orchestra (Su): You can start and maintain several bardic music effects at the same time. Whenever you are maintaining a bardic music effect, you can start another one in addition. The two melodies seamlessly fuse into a single, beautiful chorus, which has its own musical identity and doesn't sound simply like a blend of its components. You can simultaneously play a number of bardic music effects equal to half your number of Bard levels, rounded down minimum 2. You cannot, however, start more than one new bardic music effect per turn.

This specific training does not give you additional actions for playing your bardic musics, however. For example, Gimble the 5th level Bard has taken the Man Band alternative class feature, and has 4 ranks in Perform (Sing) and Perform (String Instrument). His party is facing two ogres. Gimble decides to Fascinate them. On the following round, he uses a standard action to concentrate on his Fascinate bardic music, but wants to buff up his comrades to prepare them to attack the ogres. He then starts to play and sing an Inspire Courage +1 bardic music in addition. On the third turn Gimble keeps on concentrating on Fascinate (a standard action), and keeps on fusing the Inspire Courage bardic music into his melody (a free action, and his allies are still considered to be hearing the bard sing). Though he could then add in a third bardic music, thanks to his total 8 ranks in Perform, he has already used up his standard action for this turn, so he would need an additional one.

For each bardic music you add in to a bardic orchestra, you spend one daily use of bardic music, as normal, but to efficiently fuse several magical effects together, you also need to spend some pure arcane power. In addition to the daily use of bardic music, you expand one of you unused spell slots for the day. You must expand an unused spell slot of a level equal to or higher than the highest level of spell slot which was available to you at the level at which you mastered the bardic music you are going to add in. In the previous example, Gimble started an Inspire Courage +1 bardic music in addition to its ongoing Fascinate effect. As he mastered this music at level 1, and his highest available spell slot at that level was a 0 level slot, Gimble has expanded an unused 0 level spell slot for the day.

This special focus means, however, that while you have favored your musical studies, you haven't had the opportunity to travel as much as a normal Bard would, and learn miscellaneous knowledge about the world. You lose your Bardic Knowledge class feature.

remetagross
2016-10-05, 06:47 AM
Focused Musicologist (Alternate Class Feature)

You are always eager to create and experiment new melodies and new tunes. You pride yourself on knowing and knowing how to play many more songs and partition than most of your fellow Bards. This, however, means that you spend that much time less learning and mastering new forms of arcane magic.

Innovative Melody: Beginning at 1st level, each time you would gain a new level of Bard spells available (that is, at Bard levels 2, 4, 7, 10, 13 and 16),you learn or invent a new bardic music instead. Before calculation of your bonus spells per day for a high Charisma score, you lose one spell known and one spell per day you would have gained at this level if not for this alternate class feature, minimum 0 in both cases. In exchange, you gain two additional uses of bardic music per day, and you also gain a bonus feat with the Bardic Music tag for which you qualify.

Other classes that stack with Bard class level for determining spells per day, spells known and caster level, such as many prestige classes, may be so devised that you will gain the benefits of Innovative Melody at levels other than those mentioned above. Moreover, at the DM's discretion, Bard-focused prestige classes that grant their own spellcasting progression as well as at least some bardic music progression, such as the Sublime Chord, may be subject to this alternate class feature as well.

ShiningStarling
2016-10-05, 11:52 AM
I'd guess Suggestion gets moved up 1 level, Song of Freedom down 1, Mass Suggestion erm down 1, and then you'd get a song at 3rd, 9th, 13th, and 19th so four more songs.

Suggestion, Mass Suggestion, and Countersong I would consider more incidental utilities than songs all their own, though no real harm in calling them songs I suppose. If you didn't count them though, that would be 3 more songs, 2 of them early, so that could be neat.

@remetagross, neat schtuff, not sure I'd use the spell one, though it does seem balanced and would make Sublime Chord more flavorful (though incidentally that would make Seeker of the Song, my favorite Bard prc, fall even further into disuse), but the One Man Band is ridiculous and I love it, though the method of determining the most instruments you can use is a bit obtuse, maybe just make it Charisma mod? Or half Bard Level, min 2?

remetagross
2016-10-06, 01:50 AM
@remetagross, neat schtuff, not sure I'd use the spell one, though it does seem balanced and would make Sublime Chord more flavorful (though incidentally that would make Seeker of the Song, my favorite Bard prc, fall even further into disuse), but the One Man Band is ridiculous and I love it, though the method of determining the most instruments you can use is a bit obtuse, maybe just make it Charisma mod? Or half Bard Level, min 2?

I'm glad you like it :smallbiggrin: about the number of uses, yeah you're right, the current formula could allow someone to just dip Bard 1, pump up Perform and go to town, which is against the general idea.
However, I'm not sure it is worth it to give a high cap to the number of melodies, since the character can't start more than one per turn, and a figth won't last for long enough to allow ten or more melodies piled on. Maybe cap it at two simultaneous melodies at level 1, and then one more every three bard levels thereafter ?

For the Focused Musicologist, I wonder if the price isn't a bit too steep for one and a half bonus feat ? Maybe sacrificing a spell known, but not a spell per day, would seem less expensive. After all, the fluff says the character has less time to learn more spells, not that he is a less powerful spellcaster. Opinions ?

Zaydos
2016-10-06, 02:11 AM
I'm glad you like it :smallbiggrin: about the number of uses, yeah you're right, the current formula could allow someone to just dip Bard 1, pump up Perform and go to town, which is against the general idea.
However, I'm not sure it is worth it to give a high cap to the number of melodies, since the character can't start more than one per turn, and a figth won't last for long enough to allow ten or more melodies piled on. Maybe cap it at two simultaneous melodies at level 1, and then one more every three bard levels thereafter ?

For the Focused Musicologist, I wonder if the price isn't a bit too steep for one and a half bonus feat ? Maybe sacrificing a spell known, but not a spell per day, would seem less expensive. After all, the fluff says the character has less time to learn more spells, not that he is a less powerful spellcaster. Opinions ?

I would remove the you have to have hands on each instrument, and make it require you play an instrument in both hands and sing, and simply be 1 + 1/2 bard level bard songs (min 2). Either you have 4 hands (costing you 3-4 levels) or you're taking no other actions than playing songs, or you're using melodic casting to cast stilled spells. Either is expensive and simpler than the current which still equates to you aren't doing anything else. That said it's not really dippable as you have to expend 2 Bardic Music uses... when you only have bard level uses. Well you could spend a feat, but still if you want to do it more than 1/day that's another feat. But yeah I'd base it on Bard level not Perform ranks.

As for 1-1/2 feats not being worth 1 spell known and 1 spell per day... Extra Spell Known and Extra Spell per Day are feats (though they're 1 level below the highest not the highest level) and not considered worth taking, so assuming the bardic music feats are worth taking I'd say it's a fair deal. Though I would put 1 less spell per day of that level (to a minimum of 0 before bonus spells), since bards technically get 0, and this way it leaves them behind next level but dampens the pain on the first level. Losing 1/2 of your 5th level spells hurts a lot less than losing your only 5th level spell.


Suggestion, Mass Suggestion, and Countersong I would consider more incidental utilities than songs all their own, though no real harm in calling them songs I suppose. If you didn't count them though, that would be 3 more songs, 2 of them early, so that could be neat.

Suggestion frees up 1 of your 2nd level spells known and one or more spell slots, so I'd not call it an incidental utility, but pretty good, I mean you can pick it up earlier, but this is a freebie so probably should count (especially since it's one of their strongest songs), and Mass Suggestion is powerful if used right. You could have picked it up earlier, but it still saves you the spell known (and lets you swap it out now). As for Countersong... I counted all the 1st level songs as one... well ok I counted Inspire Courage and then left all the other 1st level songs as incidental benefits (though Fascinate is useful, but it's more of a Suggestion facilitator than its own thing). That said since bards can get Suggestion and Mass Suggestion as spells earlier, maybe move Suggestion to 5th instead of 7th, so it is saving you one of your highest level spells known and 1 or more spell slots. Though you have to make the decision at 1st and not each time you come to it... hmm...

remetagross
2016-10-06, 07:30 AM
I would remove the you have to have hands on each instrument, and make it require you play an instrument in both hands and sing, and simply be 1 + 1/2 bard level bard songs (min 2). Either you have 4 hands (costing you 3-4 levels) or you're taking no other actions than playing songs, or you're using melodic casting to cast stilled spells. Either is expensive and simpler than the current which still equates to you aren't doing anything else. That said it's not really dippable as you have to expend 2 Bardic Music uses... when you only have bard level uses. Well you could spend a feat, but still if you want to do it more than 1/day that's another feat. But yeah I'd base it on Bard level not Perform ranks.

Yeah, I had'nt figured out this would prevent the Bard from casting spells. In fact, I added this part mostly for fluff and logical reasons, rather than for balance. So I suppose I can ditch it without remorse. I get your point about not being able to dip for it, too. About the 1/2 Bard levels, both of you think this should be the balanced way to go, so I suppose this is. To be honest, I don't really realise how useful the Bardic Knowledge cladd feature is, so I have a hard time scaling the figures of the ability I trade it for.


As for 1-1/2 feats not being worth 1 spell known and 1 spell per day... Extra Spell Known and Extra Spell per Day are feats (though they're 1 level below the highest not the highest level) and not considered worth taking, so assuming the bardic music feats are worth taking I'd say it's a fair deal. Though I would put 1 less spell per day of that level (to a minimum of 0 before bonus spells), since bards technically get 0, and this way it leaves them behind next level but dampens the pain on the first level. Losing 1/2 of your 5th level spells hurts a lot less than losing your only 5th level spell.

So you think 1 spell per day and 1 spell known are not too pricey a bargain, but then it should come online at sometimes just a level later, in order not to delay an entire spell level acquisition. Thanks for your advice !

I think the feats you propose are worth their weight, since they can give very specific effects that Bard spells can't reproduce that easily. The Reaper's Tune, the Draconium song, the Planeswalker song, the Ravenwatch chant, the Antimagic song for example. The Charming song and the Siren song seem less unique, but they are more flavorful.

ShiningStarling
2016-10-08, 05:01 PM
Suggestion frees up 1 of your 2nd level spells known and one or more spell slots, so I'd not call it an incidental utility, but pretty good, I mean you can pick it up earlier, but this is a freebie so probably should count (especially since it's one of their strongest songs), and Mass Suggestion is powerful if used right. You could have picked it up earlier, but it still saves you the spell known (and lets you swap it out now). As for Countersong... I counted all the 1st level songs as one... well ok I counted Inspire Courage and then left all the other 1st level songs as incidental benefits (though Fascinate is useful, but it's more of a Suggestion facilitator than its own thing). That said since bards can get Suggestion and Mass Suggestion as spells earlier, maybe move Suggestion to 5th instead of 7th, so it is saving you one of your highest level spells known and 1 or more spell slots. Though you have to make the decision at 1st and not each time you come to it... hmm...

Course, we could just go full on like rogue talents and just add them all to the list of songs that one can pick, after all, of we're doing songs for all kinds of different bards, why make them all have Suggestion when you could give them the choice instead?

Grod_The_Giant
2016-10-08, 09:13 PM
I'll just leave a link to my spell-less Bard rewrite here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392463-The-Bard-v2-%28Spell-less-and-Fixed-List-Caster-Project-Versions%29), for fun's sake.

remetagross
2016-10-10, 11:41 AM
I updated my ACFs according to your opinion guys.

Deepbluediver
2016-10-10, 03:06 PM
When I'm working on homebrew, I've always wondered what exactly to do with the Bard- it's kind of the odd-duck-out of the core classes. I'm sure some people would say that since it's tier 3 it's fine already, but reading through all the stuff in this thread reminds me of a thought I've had before. Rather than being a spellcaster, I think the Bard should be use invocations (like a Warlock), or something like that. I think a fair number of the Bard's spells are or could be made into basic invocations anyway, and then you can also have stuff like in this thread that is only active for as long as the bard keeps singing or something.

remetagross
2016-10-10, 09:38 PM
I see your point, Invocations seem quite relevant on a Bard, though it makes things more complicated when it comes to multiclass, draw support from splat books, etc.
Maybe you could whip up an ACF that allows the Bard to lose half of its spells or something in exchange for invocations ? That would let some flexibility while reaching your point.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-10-11, 07:59 AM
When I'm working on homebrew, I've always wondered what exactly to do with the Bard- it's kind of the odd-duck-out of the core classes. I'm sure some people would say that since it's tier 3 it's fine already, but reading through all the stuff in this thread reminds me of a thought I've had before. Rather than being a spellcaster, I think the Bard should be use invocations (like a Warlock), or something like that. I think a fair number of the Bard's spells are or could be made into basic invocations anyway, and then you can also have stuff like in this thread that is only active for as long as the bard keeps singing or something.
Check out the link I posted earlier; I expanded bardic music into a set of invocation-like options in place of spells.