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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Help with item and weapon design.



Calen
2016-09-21, 03:51 PM
Hi, I have been messing around with some weapon and magic item concepts and wanted to run my ideas past some of the geniuses here.

Basic concepts:
Greatbow
Requires Extra Attack feature.
When attacking with this weapon you may only attack once, instead of twice.
Weapon Damage 3d10 (Instead of a longbow 1d8)

---alternate---

Gloves of the Titan
Requires Extra Attack feature.
When holding a weapon in this glove you may choose to attack once instead of the two times allowed by your Extra Attack Feature.
Your weapon die is doubled and you may add your Constitution modifier to damage dealt.

So my question is. Are these values fair? Up or down? Is there an expected damage boost that a feat or magic item of a particular level would give?


It would seem to me that double the attacks would be double the hits. The double attacks are going to do more damage simply because the STR or DEX mod is added to each attack so that needs to be compensated for.

The default 2 attacks: 100 rounds of combat at 75% accuracy yield 150 hits. 150 * (4.5 + 5) = 1425 Average damage. (D8 dice and +5 modifier)

The great-bow v1: 75 hits 75*((5.5*3)+5) = 1612.5 Average damage (Higher damage vs Default as the assumed modifier is lowered)
(More dice)

The great-bow v2: 75 hits 75*((6.5*2)+5) = 1350 Average damage (Deals less damage at high modifier and more damage at low modifier vs Default)
(Bigger dice)

The gloves: 75 Hits 75*((4.5*2)+5+5) = 1425 Average damage (This assumes that the second modifier is identical to the first)


Thanks!

Gr7mm Bobb
2016-09-21, 04:21 PM
Honestly, our group just ran with the raw imagery aspect of combat. We had a player try to recreate Gannondorf's SSB 1 hit wonder motif. Tried out a couple of mechanics, but the one that was the least broken and mentally taxing was this. He would declare who his "mega" attack was at and roll all of his available attack rolls. Each hit and crit individually, but the math was totalled together for fluff purposes. It was a fun way of doing it.

As far as the complications we ran into and why we did what we did. Being able to all-in a single attack got to a point where the PC almost 1 shot the current BEBG. so he came into using 1 shot to-hit buffer (like true strike) and swinging for the fences with a -5/+10.

Your bow IS a nice way of approaching the situation. And one I think I'll try to experiment with. Another option you can run with is have the Bow deal 3d8 and allow the addition of Str AND Dex. It would lower your overall crit damage, but your numbers would be about the same if the is a +3 in but relevant stats.

The gloves of the titan are cool as well. I think that maybe prevent it from being used by the with weapons that are not 2h or versatile.

I will note, I am not a playgrounder known for have my first thoughts on a subject be the most balanced thing in existence. So grain of salt and all.

Foxhound438
2016-09-22, 02:52 AM
seems fair overall. And frankly, for some games I think it would be prefferable for people to have these, since it cuts down time that people sit rolling dice and adding modifiers by having their turn be a simple attack once and end.

The problem comes in that it changes the balance of things, in multiple ways. First off, about every martial character would end up losing damage later on; for example, fighters chosing between 3d8+15 versus 3d10+5.... is an obvious choice, while something like paladin loses the effects of per-hit damage boosts like Improved Divine Smite, making his choice 4d6+1d8+6 with the glove special, or 4d6+2d8+8 using two separate attacks. Second, fights can be a lot more swingy; normally, the martial classes get 2 to 3 attempts to do some damage, and generally will land about 67% of those. In the multiple attacks standard design model, bad d20 roll streaks are more or less mitigated by the fact that having 3 misses in a row only take a round and a half, while in the single attack, big damage model 3 consecutive misses is 3 rounds of being a punching bag... which will usually kill you.

That said, again it's fair. it's not going to be optimal to use these, but in some cases it might be better (ie, a help action gives advantage to one attack roll, if that attack roll is for your entire turn's damage it becomes better).

Ugganaut
2016-09-22, 07:54 AM
I know you asked for geniuses, but I'll give some feedback anyway :)

What is your goal? It looks like you're trying to strip Extra Attack in favor of one big attack, and you don't care if its mundane or magical.
Extra Attack as a requirement doesn't feel right. A lvl 20 War domain Cleric can't use it?
As I don't' know what your goal is, I'll suggest two options and hope one helps :)
"When attacking with this weapon you may only attack once, instead of twice", I'll try focus on that line.

For a mundane Greatbow, give it "Requires Strength 15", as it sounds like its a massive compound bow. Give it a property similar to loading(Drawing), where you can't fire it more than once per round. You also couldn't use it on reactions. Or something like whats in the Commander's Strike maneuver, giving up an attack to do something else. In this case, it requires one attack to draw, and another to fire. So maybe someone who doesn't have Extra Attack, but still has the Str 15, can still fire it, but only every second round.

For a magical version, maybe something like a Greatbow that has a spell-like ability. The same way Green-Flame Blade negates Extra Attack by requiring a Spell for the attack instead of the Attack action, the bow could do the same. Eg. Greatbow of Force, Ability: As an action, you can draw back the bow string, and an arrow of magical force appears ready to fire. You make a ranged weapon attack, dealing 3d10 force damage(then add Str, or Dex, whatever suits your idea). The arrow lasts until the start of your next turn, then dissipates.
So any character could use it(could at the Str requirement), but Extra Attack wouldn't benefit. Could put a class restriction on it if need be, or a level requirement of 5?

All depends on what you want it to do, or not to do.

Gr7mm Bobb
2016-09-22, 11:40 AM
So if we were to put this idea into cantrip format it could look like this. And just clone a ranged version of it that does d6's and can go within 90 or 120 feet.

Mighty Blow
Evocation Cantrip
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: 5 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects and receives an additional amount of damage equal to your proficiency bonus. This spell's damage increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an additional 1d8 of damage, 2d8 at 11th level, and 3d8 at 17th level.

I've also seen a couple of feat brews that use a similar idea. You give up extra attacks for an additional set of weapon dice in damage. It functions very similar to the rogues sneak attack design. Other option if you are in a homestyle game is to let the player learn it from a master so they can have a 1-hit-wonder technique.

Calen
2016-09-22, 02:44 PM
Thanks for all the feedback. :smallbiggrin:

The goal of this was partly theoretical and partly that I have party members that like to collect weapons. They don't necessarily want magic weapons, they just like to collect interesting things. That rules out the cantrip approach.

I do like the use as magic item and requires 2 attack actions items suggestions.

Also Foxhound's points about swinginess and class usage are very helpful, I will certainly be more careful about how many of these weapons I might give out.

Thanks again for all the help guys!