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streakster
2007-07-09, 08:32 PM
This is my first monster, so muchas criticism, please.


Originally Posted by Lord Iames Osari
Announcement: With polls disabled, votes should be posted in the threads themselves or PMed to myself and Fax. Format your votes like this so that it will be easier to pick them out from the rest of your post: MitP Vote: Yes or MitP Vote: No. Thank you.

Up to 8! Woot!

Grimoire
Small Construct
4d10 (22 hp.)
Fly 20 ft. (4 squares) Good Maneuverablility
Init: 1
AC 11; touch 11; flat-footed 10
BAB +3;
Attack: none
Full-Attack: none
Space 5 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks: Devour Knowledge, Read, PapyrCraeft, Spells
Special Qualities: Construct Traits, Damage Reduction 2/slashing, Fire Weakness, Running Ink
Saves Fort + Ref +1 Will +5
Abilities Str 1, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 16, Cha 10
Skills: Knowledge (All) 5, Decipher Script 10, Spellcraft (Max Ranks)
Feats: Hover, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Eschew Materials
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary, Anthology (2-4), Encyclopedia (10-12).
Solitary Papry Slave, Papyr Sheaf (2-6), Papyr Ream (8-10).
Challenge Rating 9
Treasure: Magic Scrolls, Spell Pages
Alignment: True Neutral
Advancement: 5-7 HD (small), 8-9 HD (medium)

"In DND, book reads YOU!

Apprentice wizards often wonder why their masters take so much care when writing their spellbooks. Rare, magical inks to ward the pages, hours spent scribing glyphs and runes of protection - "Why not simply write the spell," they say, "instead of going to all that extra trouble?" True wizards know better. The extra care is not to protect the spellbook - it's to protect against it.

Magic - even when reduced to ink on paper - is powerful, and when the protections in a spellbook are broken or improperly placed, or crumple under the weight of far too many spells, the result is a book subject to hundreds of simultaneous enchantments - and with enough magical energy to just maybe achieve a degree of sentience. A Grimoire.

Grimoires are batteries of arcane power, and imbued with hundreds of spells. Their most deadly and feared ability, however, is their ability to "read" a creature or object - transforming it from reality to words, and then drawing it into itself. Old Grimoires are swollen with pages that once were sentient beings, now reduced to descriptions of themselves. Old or new however, a Grimoire is a terrifying sight.

Grimoires cannot hear nor speak, but if one is offered paper and devours it, it will know what was written. Grimoires can also sense nearby words, so scratching a message in the dirt or scribbling on a wall can be used to communicate with one as well. Often, the book will use passages of its text, sent by sending or dream spells, or by sending one of its pages to hover in front of the target, to reply. Grimoires gravitate to sources of magic (using their detect magic spell) to feed, making them a threat to wizards.

Grimoires often reflect their contents - a Grimoire whose creator stored mainly Necromantic spells will delight in death, for example. Some of the personalities that may result from a Grimoire's contents are:

Evocation: Delight in battle, love of destruction, courage
Necromancy: Love of murder, solemness, curiosity about death and undead
Divination: Curiosity
Conjuration: Love of creating things, delight in command, patience
Abjuration: Cowardliness, Resoluteness, Love of quiet life
Enchantment: Manipulative, Friendly,
Illusion: Liar, Show-off, Love of Applause
Transmutation: Love of experimentation, love of change

Grimoires all desire more spells - whether they get them by killing wizards, adventuring (to find them or gold to buy them), or - more rarely - creating them. Many Grimoires also desire strong servants - meaning that they will systematically hunt down and Read strong opponents. Grimoires are often contemptuous of those that they feel are not as smart as they are - a Grimoire that wants something that a villager owns might simply Read the villager, and never consider its actions murder. In contrast, they have only the highest respect for intelligent beings, though this does not mean they always get along - but a Grimoire will generally at least listen to a genius. Grimoires are determined beyond belief, never stopping once they have set a goal until they have achieved it, regardless of any obstacle. Their goals can be ineffable at times, however...

Notable Grimoires:

The Book Of the Dawn: A tome written by a paladin/wizard, this Grimoire considered it its mission to remove every undead and necromancer on Earth. It destroyed thousands before being stopped by a mighty lich, who burned it to ash. Some say that one of it's Papyr servants, a paladin who volunteered to be Read, still tries to find method to make it whole again.

The Red Tome: a spellbook that was originally a transmutation text, the Red Tome embarked on a 40 mile journey straight north, changing everything in its path to suit itself, before being stopped by a party of its fellows.

The Library: an assemblage of Grimoires that wished to be treated as normal citizens, and tried to become a political party. Disbanded after pressures from wizards.

Malkus: A bulging tome that threatens to split his covers, Malkus runs a very successful spell shop in a tiny town, drawing visitors for hundreds of miles. It has purchased so many books with its profits that it is considering being rebound in order to hold all its new pages. His creator, one Darigus Finch, is now Papyrcrafted, and lives happily with Malkus as a friend and advisor.



A Grimoire will never result from a spellbook with less than 24 spells.

Devour Knowledge:

A Grimoire can rip spells and pages from lesser books, drawing them into itself.
Any book within 10 feet of the Grimoire can be targeted by this ability. The book takes 1d6 damage, and if it is a spellbook, loses one of its spells. The Grimoire gains the damage it does with this ability as HP. When this ability destroys a book, the Grimoire gains 1 rank in any Knowledge skill.

Read:

This attack is treated as a gaze attack. Once per round, the Grimoire may open its pages in an attempt to get a foe to read them. Should the target look at the pages (they need not understand them), they are partially transformed into pages in the Grimoire. They lose 1d4+1 points of Constitution, negated by a DC 15 Will save. The Grimoire gains the number of points of Constitution damage it does as HP. Should a Grimoire kill a target with this ability, it may add the defeated creature to its PapyrCraeft list. A creature killed by this ability may not be resurrected unless a spell such as remove curse, wish, dispel magic, or similar has been used on the defeated (and intact) Grimoire, to restore the person to normal form. When this ability destroys a being, the Grimoire may select one of the destroyed creature's Knowledge skills that is higher than its own, and replace its rank in that skill with the creature's.

PapyrCraeft:

A Grimoire may turn the creatures it has read into servants, with parchment flesh and inky veins. The creature must be one that the Grimoire has slain with the Read ability. The Grimoire takes 1d10 of damage, and loses 1 point of Constitution, whenever this ability is used, as the pages of the servant must come from the Grimoire. Most Grimoire's enter combat with at least 1 or 2 creatures already read. Creatures created by this ability use the Papyr template, below. A Grimoire commands its servants telepathically, by changing
some of the words in their pages from afar (The page that describes their goals in life might be changed to the single line, "Kill the dragon", for example.) Effects that block magical effects in an area also block the Grimoire's control over any servants in that area.

A Grimoire may also use this ability to reabsorb one of its servants, gaining back the point of CON spent on it. If a Papyr servant dies, the point of CON may be regained by repairing (with mending, wish, or any other suitable spell) the servant's remains to serviceable paper, then reabsorbing the paper.

Spells:

This monster can prepare any amount of spells (no duplicates) of any spell from level 7 or under, save those that require XP or materials worth more than 1 gp. For any spell that requires a level - this spell lasts 1 minute per level, this spell goes 5 ft. per level, etc., - the level number to use is eight.

Running Ink:

When exposed to water while its covers are open, a Grimoire loses 1 rank in a random Knowledge skill permanently.


NOTES: "Spell Pages" in the Treasure line means pieces of paper with spells on them. They can be copied into spellbooks, or used to learn spells by sorcerers and such.

Challenge Rating is way, way off base, most likely. It's a guess.

Still figuring out Spellcraft ranking.



Papyr Template:

Type changes to construct.

Hit Dice are all changed to d4, and rerolled.

Creature loses any fire resistance, and gains fire weakness.

Creature's movement increases by 10 ft. (2 squares).

Creature takes a -4 Strength penalty.

Creature loses all CON (CON changes to " - ").

Creature gains the Origami ability. Origami allows the creature to change its size down one level, or back to normal.

Creature gains +10 to Jump, Climb, Tumble, and Balance checks.

Bitzeralisis
2007-07-09, 09:19 PM
I like the organization names. :smalltongue:
It's a good idea. In the papyr template, you should change 1.5 as much fire damage to simply fire weakness.

MitP Vote: Yes.

BelkarIsAGod
2007-07-10, 12:52 AM
That's a vicious creature there. Just pointing out, shouldn't there be some sort of lvl requirement for the wizard that creates a grimoire? otherwise...
Apprentice: Ooh, better write down that prestigitation spell before I forget.
(scribbles on a piece of paper)
Apprentice: Oh God No!
(Newly created grimoire destroys his puny mortal form and goes on a rampage)
MitP vote: Yes

SydneyLosstarot
2007-07-10, 05:15 AM
Will you make The Librarian too?
and the L-Space? =)

Bisected8
2007-07-10, 05:43 AM
A nice explaination for one of the stranger mechanics. MitP: Yes

DracoDei
2007-07-10, 12:47 PM
Cool concept. Needs a good bit of 'tidying up' I think...

Need to list the Papyr creatures in the organization line I think.

Definitely needs an "Advancement" line with the way you have described it...

Does the target of "Read" have to be literate?

The communication ability is rather limited since as you have defined it they can 'speak' only twice per day. Although I guess they could also suppress their Read ability and flip open to an appropriate passage (dog-ear themselves to mark appropriate starting and stopping places?)... of course this requires a HIGH degree of trust on the reader's part. Actually if they have there Papyr servants read (not Read) them they could probably communicate perfectly well through them... and that is assuming they don't have telepathic control enough to directly relay information through them.

I would think they could read (not Read) words around them so you could communicate by writing in the dirt, or if it has restraint, writing short things so you don't have to use a full page each time (I guess you could write, then cut off the part of the page that was written on, then 'feed' it to the book).

DR "fire and magic" doesn't seem to make sense... elemental damage bypasses all DR anyway I think.

Need to specify the save DC and what stat it is based on for "Read".

If it casts as an 8th level wizard what is the point of it knowing spells above 4th level (you have it as knowing spells up to 7th)?

Don't know about reducing (rather than transforming to '-') CON AND making an exception to the HD rules for the Papyr creatures.

Needs more description on personality... with INT 18 and WIS 16 I would think they would TEND to be more than ravening monsters... They might even be allies of their creators, negotiated into still serving their original purpose and fed any books the wizard purchases (as well as enemies taken alive who would otherwise be Coup De Grace'd). Since if a true relationship of trust exists these pages would still be available for the wizard's reference it is a win-win situation. For that matter, with their spellcasting abilities, I could see them setting up shop as stay at home spell-casters for hire... they get paid the going rate to cast spells (in non-dangerous situations) and then they load up a Floating Disk by means of Mage Hand (Or have their servants carry the money) and head off to the local book store for a 'meal'.

An interesting variation would be one that Read then PapyrCrafted its creator, and had them continue their life almost as normal (so friends of the wizard would not be as prone to seek vengeance). This would work out almost the same as the above cooperative situation but with the Grimoire in charge instead of a meeting of equals.

I could also see high level wizards INTENTIONALLY copying their spellbooks without the precautions to create this situation(since it doesn't sound like it happens instantly the chances of it happening during the actual copying are relatively slim)... it is cheaper than making a golem of equivalent power, if noticeably un-predictable and if they happen to be Chaotic anyway they wouldn't care about the consequences of releasing a rogue book into the world if it didn't agree to work with them. If it attacked and couldn't be talked down... well that is why you prepare Maximized Fireball before entering the Dimensional Anchored room you have the book 'Aging' in (right next to a separate piece of paper explain its situation). Also, especially for a middle-age or younger wizard, the concept of being a slave to neutral master would be worth it to never age (since the stat loss for STR and CON is less than that of the last two age categories and no DEX is lost). They can pretty much count on getting PapyrCrafted if they negotiate for such since the Grimoire would be foolish to not sacrifice the point of CON in order to gain such a powerful servant. From a moral and social POV it beats Lichdom hands down...

streakster
2007-07-10, 09:38 PM
I like the organization names.
It's a good idea. In the papyr template, you should change 1.5 as much fire damage to simply fire weakness.

MitP Vote: Yes.

Thank you for the vote and advice! I'll change that.



That's a vicious creature there. Just pointing out, shouldn't there be some sort of lvl requirement for the wizard that creates a grimoire? otherwise...
Apprentice: Ooh, better write down that prestigitation spell before I forget.
(scribbles on a piece of paper)
Apprentice: Oh God No!
(Newly created grimoire destroys his puny mortal form and goes on a rampage)
MitP vote: Yes

Thank you too! I should clarify that a bit - a Grimoire just might happen, not certainly happen. Adding that a certain number of spells must be in the book might do the trick here. I'll see.


Will you make The Librarian too?
and the L-Space? =)

If you're insinuating that I'm ripping off Terry Pratchett - then you're right. Heck, it's quite a compliment when someone tells you your work is similar to Terry Pratchett's in any way.


A nice explaination for one of the stranger mechanics. MitP: Yes

The OOTS Strip where V is copying spells into his spellbook courtesy of Lord Shojo inspired this monster. Well, that and the Color of Magic. Thank you so much for your vote - 3 votes was rather more than I expected.


Dracodei, thank you for your help! I'm gonna quote you in parts, 'K?


Cool concept. Needs a good bit of 'tidying up' I think...

Thank you! And yes, definitely does.


Definitely needs an "Advancement" line with the way you have described it...

Agreed and added.


Does the target of "Read" have to be literate?

Nope, the book reads the target, not the other way around. They must look at the script on the book's pages, though. Neat idea, and now I want to implement it - perhaps Grimoires create trap books enchanted to devour anyone who reads them, and leave them in dungeons, coming by regularly to feed on the now thicker books?


The communication ability is rather limited since as you have defined it they can 'speak' only twice per day. Although I guess they could also suppress their Read ability and flip open to an appropriate passage (dog-ear themselves to mark appropriate starting and stopping places?)... of course this requires a HIGH degree of trust on the reader's part. Actually if they have there Papyr servants read (not Read) them they could probably communicate perfectly well through them... and that is assuming they don't have telepathic control enough to directly relay information through them.


I'll need to rework this. They could send out a single one of their pages (as a page - what a pun, eh?) - not enough to use Read, but enough to communicate. Or maybe the ability to write in glowing magical letters in midair. I'll see. Oh, and yes, they telepathically command their servants - I'll add that in.


I would think they could read (not Read) words around them so you could communicate by writing in the dirt, or if it has restraint, writing short things so you don't have to use a full page each time (I guess you could write, then cut off the part of the page that was written on, then 'feed' it to the book).

Good idea! In it goes.


DR "fire and magic" doesn't seem to make sense... elemental damage bypasses all DR anyway I think.

Ohhh....does it? I just wanted the Grimoire to be a little more resistant to damage (ever tried to hit a book with a hammer?), but not to fire. Maybe just give it fire weakness, huh?


Need to specify the save DC and what stat it is based on for "Read".

Will do.


If it casts as an 8th level wizard what is the point of it knowing spells above 4th level (you have it as knowing spells up to 7th)?

I didn't want to make it godlike. What was meant was - " This monster can prepare any amount of spells (no duplicates) of any spell from level 7 or under. For any spell that requires a level - this spell lasts 1 minute per level, this spell goes 5 ft. per level, etc., - the level number to use is eight."


Don't know about reducing (rather than transforming to '-') CON AND making an exception to the HD rules for the Papyr creatures.

Erm - what HD rules? Sorry if I got this wrong - I though since undead got d12 HD, I could give mine d4's. Transforming CON to "-" is good - I'll change that.


Needs more description on personality... with INT 18 and WIS 16 I would think they would TEND to be more than ravening monsters... They might even be allies of their creators, negotiated into still serving their original purpose and fed any books the wizard purchases (as well as enemies taken alive who would otherwise be Coup De Grace'd). Since if a true relationship of trust exists these pages would still be available for the wizard's reference it is a win-win situation. For that matter, with their spellcasting abilities, I could see them setting up shop as stay at home spell-casters for hire... they get paid the going rate to cast spells (in non-dangerous situations) and then they load up a Floating Disk by means of Mage Hand (Or have their servants carry the money) and head off to the local book store for a 'meal'.

An interesting variation would be one that Read then PapyrCrafted its creator, and had them continue their life almost as normal (so friends of the wizard would not be as prone to seek vengeance). This would work out almost the same as the above cooperative situation but with the Grimoire in charge instead of a meeting of equals.



Personality I'm planning to add. I love the stay-at-home spellcaster idea - can't you just see a PC party walling into a spell shop, and hearing the DM describe the shopkeeper as a "large, black-bound book with gold titling?" Some might be friends with their creators, true, but I'd like to make this a bad thing for mages for the most part. IDEA: let's base their individual personality on what spell school their wizard focused on - a necromancer's book kills things, an evoker's book blows stuff up, a diviner's book is insanely curious, etc.


I could also see high level wizards INTENTIONALLY copying their spellbooks without the precautions to create this situation(since it doesn't sound like it happens instantly the chances of it happening during the actual copying are relatively slim)... it is cheaper than making a golem of equivalent power, if noticeably un-predictable and if they happen to be Chaotic anyway they wouldn't care about the consequences of releasing a rouge book into the world if it didn't agree to work with them. If it attacked and couldn't be talked down... well that is why you prepare Maximized Fireball before entering the Dimensional Anchored room you have the book 'Aging' in (right next to a separate piece of paper explain its situation). Also, especially for a middle-age or younger wizard, the concept of being a slave to neutral master would be worth it to never age (since the stat loss for STR and CON is less than that of the last two age categories and no DEX is lost). They can pretty much count on getting PapyrCrafted if they negotiate for such since the Grimoire would be foolish to not sacrifice the point of CON in order to gain such a powerful servant. From a moral and social POV it beats Lichdom hands down...

Awesome. I want to play a Papyrcrafted Mage + Grimoire combo now. You couldn't count on getting one, but keep loading it full of spells with no safeguards and the chances are high...

Icewalker
2007-07-10, 10:13 PM
This is indeed quite awesome. I really like it, and may even use it myself. Mitp vote: yes

DracoDei
2007-07-10, 11:12 PM
Dracodei, thank you for your help! I'm gonna quote you in parts, 'K?

'K and you are welcome.


perhaps Grimoires create trap books enchanted to devour anyone who reads them, and leave them in dungeons, coming by regularly to feed on the now thicker books?
Interesting concept, makes for a nice trap... don't know if it should go in the print book though... I personally would think it would be worth it, but others might not agree on the paper space efficiency of it (I sense general irony about talking about space efficiency in relation to things about this monster, but I can't quite seem to generate a good pun out of it on the fly).




I'll need to rework this. They could send out a single one of their pages (as a page - what a pun, eh?) - not enough to use Read, but enough to communicate.
That works, but brings up an interesting point... I got the impression that they were unable to alter their own contents?




Ohhh....does it? I just wanted the Grimoire to be a little more resistant to damage (ever tried to hit a book with a hammer?), but not to fire. Maybe just give it fire weakness, huh?

Might try 2/magic and non-bludgeoning... and fire weakness is good.



I didn't want to make it godlike. What was meant was - " This monster can prepare any amount of spells (no duplicates) of any spell from level 7 or under. For any spell that requires a level - this spell lasts 1 minute per level, this spell goes 5 ft. per level, etc., - the level number to use is eight."

I would suggest TECHNICALLY limiting them to spells they have absorbed pages containing (or were in them to begin with) as a way of further balancing the possibility of intentionally creating them. Plus the spells and spell-like abilities that match arcane spells of creatures they have absorbed. The "average" one might have absorbed enough that it can be assumed to be able to cast anything.



Erm - what HD rules? Sorry if I got this wrong - I though since undead got d12 HD, I could give mine d4's. Transforming CON to "-" is good - I'll change that.
PapyrCraeft-ed are constructs not undead (thus much of the moral superiority of this over Lichdom). Constructs are USUALLY supposed to have d10's for hitpoints. Like any overarching rule it can be broken in a good cause. BTW the fact that they have such low HD makes me think they might be hollow... in which case you MIGHT want to raid my "Empty Skin" template for ideas (but it is kinda long).



Personality I'm planning to add. I love the stay-at-home spellcaster idea - can't you just see a PC party walling into a spell shop, and hearing the DM describe the shopkeeper as a "large, black-bound book with gold titling?"
So close and yet so far from what would derive maximium :smallconfused:from the players... what the GM would want would be something along the lines of:

"As you enter the shop it seems empty. The most noticeable feature is a huge leather bound volume with paper sticking out at odd angles looking like it contains about four times as many pages as the binding was meant to accommodate. It is sitting on a small desk. Four comfortable looking chairs are in front of the desk. A voice comes from the direction of the desk. 'Mr. Kardak and company I presume?' it is then that you notice that there is no chair BEHIND the desk."


Some might be friends with their creators, true, but I'd like to make this a bad thing for mages for the most part. IDEA: let's base their individual personality on what spell school their wizard focused on - a necromancer's book kills things, an evoker's book blows stuff up, a diviner's book is insanely curious, etc.
I like it.
Following are before reading your own comments:
Evoker's book = pyromanic/demolitions nut
Enchanter's book = socialite?

One thing that might help keep it SOMEWHAT under control is that these would be stats for an AVERAGE book, and the knowledge scores etc would start off at nil and only increase as the Grimoire ate books (and knowledgable people) on that topic (and thus perfectly assimilated the information).

DracoDei
2007-07-11, 03:42 AM
Since they are explicitly made with comparatively ordinary inks and pages to begin with, and most of the books they ate would be of similar ordinary quality would they be subject to running ink if someone threw a Create Water at them while they were open? What about mildew? And I can just see them snapping open and shut trying to crush an annoying bookworm (paper-wasp? termite?) between their pages like a person swatting at a horse-fly...

Some balance issues if you want to make the crunch for using them as PCs or major NPCs:

You MIGHT want to put in some slow way of recovering CON for them so that they don't have a strictly finite number of PapyrCraefted they can make in their lifetime...

Another weirdness is that since the default CON is 10 no matter how small a creature is (larger than medium is another story) then they can build up a lot of HP by Reading mice or whatever...


Oh, and BTW:
MitP Vote: Yes

Trauco
2007-07-11, 09:52 AM
The Library: an assemblage of Grimoires that wished to be treated as normal citizens, and tried to become a political party. Disbanded after pressures from wizards.


So good that the tried to use peaceful means.. i don't wanna think about grimoire assasins reading key political figures on their bedrooms.

What happens to PapyrCraeft when the grimoire that created them dies?

DracoDei
2007-07-11, 10:39 AM
Evidently not much or that Papyr Paladin of the Book of the Dawn couldn't still be around.

TheLogman
2007-07-11, 11:03 AM
Very nice, versatile monster.

MitP: Yes

BelkarIsAGod
2007-07-11, 03:59 PM
Just a thought, but shouldn't the papyr template give damage reduction 10/slashing? hitting a piece of paper with a club isn't going to do much, is it?

streakster
2007-07-11, 06:02 PM
Not going the insane amount of quotes route this time...

Thank you, Icewalker!



Draco Dei:

I know that there's a good paper pun in there somewhere too, but darned if it will come to me.

They can move their physical components - paper, covers, bookmarks, etc. They can't change their writing - that'd be a bit like you doing brain surgery on yourself.

DR fixed

Yup, thay are hollow. I looked at your empty skin template, and I'm thinking about stealing Hollowness for my papyr template, if that's OK. PS: Voted for it, too. Awesome idea!

I'll add in an ability that causes them to lose a point of a random Knowledge skill when hit with water while open.

I'll give them the ability to reabsorb their Papyrcrafted servants to regain that CON point.

Yes, they can heal by reading mice - but it's the mouse's whole life story!

"I ate. I slept."
(repeat above for 40 pages)
"I was Read by this Grimoire."

Thank you for the vote!




Trauco, a Papyrcrafted creature whose Grimoire dies must complete the last orders he was given, and is then free to do as he wishes.




Thanks, TheLogMan!





Belkarisagod, I'm thinking of using Hollowness from DracoDei's empty skin template. That would take care of the DR, if that works out.

DracoDei
2007-07-11, 06:13 PM
DOH!!!!
Everyone who has posted in this thread should now slap themselves in the forehead, (I have already done so, extra hard in my case) and anyone who has even read this thread should seriously consider doing so!

This thing MUST have Spell Craft on its skill list at max ranks!

I would consider making it able to read all languages (which would remove the need for Decipher Script... not that this thing doesn't technically have nigh infinite skill points already...).

streakster
2007-07-11, 06:17 PM
I believe Pratchett's druids beleive that the four elements are bloody-mindedness, persuasion, stubborness, and idiocy.

I feel like an idiocy elemental.

Thank you, Draco Dei.

Bloody_Dagger
2007-07-11, 06:53 PM
I like the idea very much. I love how they are intelligent enough to becoem part of society, I 'm already formulating ideas on how they could build their own town.... Also, how do I vote? Do I simply type MITP VOTE: Yes? If so,

MITP VOTE: Yes

JackMage666
2007-07-11, 07:34 PM
I think Barbarians should be immune to Read, as well as anyone else who's illiterate.
"The wizard fell first, followed by the fighter. The rogue's sneak attack was useless, and she fell next. The creature ignored my god's spells. It was the Barbarian, however, who seemed the least effected by the book. He just laughed at the silly pictures."

DracoDei
2007-07-11, 09:48 PM
I think Barbarians should be immune to Read, as well as anyone else who's illiterate.
We already went over this... the book reads them not they read the book... although I don't know if fighting with eyes closed helps...

SydneyLosstarot
2007-07-12, 04:46 AM
If you're insinuating that I'm ripping off Terry Pratchett - then you're right. Heck, it's quite a compliment when someone tells you your work is similar to Terry Pratchett's in any way.

'twas merely a request =)

MitP: Yes

DracoDei
2007-07-12, 06:13 AM
I believe Pratchett's druids beleive that the four elements are bloody-mindedness, persuasion, stubborness, and idiocy.

I feel like an idiocy elemental.


...someone should stat these elementals...
What is the difference between stubborness and bloody-mindedness?

Some basics for people to run with if they so chose:
Idiocy:
INT=WIS=1
?CHR?=1
Immune to modification of mental stats.
Perminant INT and WIS drain by touch on failed save.

Persuasion
CHR=14 to 18 for the tiny ones and scaling up from there.
Mind-influencing effects by touch.

Stubborn-ness
INT=WIS=10
Immune to mind-influencing effects, intimidation, diplomacy, and, in fact, most forms of communication period...

Bloody-mindedness
As above but CHR = 1




Note that I haven't read the particular volume(s) in which Prachett mentions these druids and/or elements...

streakster
2007-07-12, 03:41 PM
Well, fooey...I can't even call myself an idiot correctly! The four forces of the Druids of the Disc are:

Charm
Persuasion
Bloody-mindedness
Uncertainty

I think Idiocy should be on the list, though. I'll be a reformed Disc Druid.



Closing your eyes helps - the effect can't activate until you see the magic writing.



Also, that's 8 votes! Woo!:smallbiggrin:

SydneyLosstarot
2007-07-12, 04:31 PM
btw, in which novel are these elementals mentioned?

streakster
2007-07-12, 05:47 PM
[offtopic]
Elementals? Not mentioned at all.

The four forces, and the Druids of the Disc? The Light Fantastic, especially the part where the Druid is persuading the rock to ... I won't spoil it. Read the book, it's fantastic.

sigurd
2007-07-15, 12:29 PM
I like the concept but not the spontaneous nature of its creation. Magic has to sit in areas for sometimes hundreds of years, if it could become self aware spontaneously it would be a chaos of animated items. Besides its a conceit of humanoids that we are the source of most egos etc...

I can imagine however that all those spellcasters that toil over their books and quite literally spend their lives before them leave an imprint. Rare books might collect the echoes of the people who have written\read them. That would make an "Animated Grimoire" (I think you have to differentiate your name from the standard grimoire somehow) a possession of sorts, perhaps like a poltergeist. Elements that might affect the possession could be caster blood in the ink, failed rituals of protection and the proximity of the book when the caster died.



That sort of background would base the book in the human world and make it easier to ascribe it motives and goals. It might hate the university pub with a passion and settle down once the building was burned to the ground :).

I like the idea.

Sigurd

DracoDei
2007-07-19, 03:36 AM
BTW, in case I didn't say clearly: Yes you can use Hollowness if you want to.

Fredderf
2007-07-19, 08:57 PM
I guess Im on the fence.

I like the book concept. I think it has well backed up fluff and is more creative than most MitP stuff tends to be, but the paper people aren't half as creative and seem a bit much...

Oh, its not every day you see a talking book anyways.

MitP vote: Yes

1condor12
2008-06-04, 09:28 PM
i was just wondering would the creatures that the book Reads still keep there special abilities,qualitys, levels. lets say you want a pc grimoire caster combo. who would gain levels. would the book be able to cast higher spells as it gained levels. could the caster keep going up in levels. i need to know this because i want to do this for my character. any answers would be apreciated:smallsmile:

also i dont really know what i am voting for but
MitP yes