Penetrating Strike [Feat]

[Deepblue706]

Penetrating Strike [General, Fighter]

Prerequisites: STR 17, Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Critical (Selected Weapon), BAB 12+

Benefits: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon for which you have selected Improved Critical for, you automatically bypass all forms of damage reduction and hardness of the creature or object you are striking for that attack. Enemies immune to critical hits are not immune to this effect, and are affected whenever they would have been struck with a critical hit, but are still dealt regular damage.


Yeah. It just kinda popped into my head, figured I'd try to get an opinion on the preliminary concept.

[TheLogman]

Sounds great. High enough level to be useful when they can get it, and it helps Fighters be useful against those high level enemies that usually only casters kill. This could help Fighters at high levels. This is awesome.

[Joltz]

I like it too, I have a few questions though.

Is Great Cleave really necessary as a prerequisite? Cleave works just fine and adding Great Cleave just ensures that only people with an enormous number of spare feats can bother with it.

To clarify, does it only work on enemies that are vulnerable to critical hits, or is a benefit that works regardless (like burst weapon enhancements). I'm thinking it would be effective even against enemies who don't normally take extra damage from critical hits.

I'm definitely going to use this in my own games.

[Deepblue706]

Well, I felt Great Cleave was necessary simply because I like giving reason to take "not-so-good" feats. I dunno, I always find it more interesting to base things off of "Endurance" or "Toughness"...because that stuff goes ignored. If I'm going to try to make something new, refreshing, creative, etc, why not take a route less travelled?

If it leads to something good, that's more reason to take it, right?

Yeah, I intended for the ability to work regardless.

[Cryopyre]

I'm slightly confused, does this mean that things not vulnerable to Critical Hits take critical damage anyways?

[Justyn]

From what I can garner: no, it basically all boils down to: "You ignore damage reduction and hardness".

[Deepblue706]

I'm slightly confused, does this mean that things not vulnerable to Critical Hits take critical damage anyways?

Dammit, no, I knew someone'd take it this way. Phrasing it properly is annoying. Blargh.

It works with critical hits. If the target can't take critical hits, this still works, just dealing normal damage that penetrates hardness and DR.

[Zeta Kai]

Here's a slight rewording, for clarity:

Penetrating Strike [General, Fighter]
Prerequisites: Str 17, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, BAB 12+
Benefits: Whenever you score a critical hit with a melee weapon, you automatically bypass all forms of damage reduction & hardness of the creature or object you are striking for that attack. Opponents immune to critical hits are not immune to this effect, & are vulnerable to this ability when they would have been struck with a critical hit, although these opponents still only take normal damage.

Is this what you mean?

[Roderick_BR]

Sounds very good. Reminds me a bit of some GURPS rules for critical hits. I'm not sure if it should bypass DR when the target is immune to criticals, but then again, it would become useless against creatures that you really need to hit.
Maybe add Improved Critical with a chosen weapon as requisite, and make it ignore RD instead of dealing critical damage, and allow that ability to affect creatures immune to criticals.

[Triaxx]

Improved Critical does make more sense than Great Cleave. Given that, I like it.

[Deepblue706]

Yeah, I thought a lot about Improved Critical. I was simply hesitant to make this weapon get drawn into the "weapon specific" field.

But eh, it makes more sense anway.

[SithLackey]

Honestly, I really like this idea. However, it seems like many higher level monsters that rely extensively on DR for protection from fighter-types would kind of get seriously screwed by this feat. I mean, compared to the damage a high level fighter can dish out, DR is the only possibly effective defense. If a fighter were to have improved critical with a falchion or other weapon with a high critical range, the monsters relying on DR would begin to die VERY quickly. Especially if they actually are vulnerable to critical hits. Maybe if you allowed the feat to bypass 1/2 of the creature's damage reduction? That way, people with big crit ranges get past it more often, and poeple with big multipliers do enough damage that they still get through whatever is left easily.

[Joltz]

I think it's not a bad idea to let it penetrate all DR. I was playing a crit based dual wielding character in a battle against some elementals. The rest of the party was laughing because I was getting 3-8 damage per hit. I told them to add 110 damage that the DR took off (I'd hit 11 times at that point) and the critical hits I wasn't getting extra damage for :smallyuk: DR can hurt some fighters a lot.

[Triaxx]

Perhaps roll a d4 to determine total DR penetration? 1=1/4, 2=1/2, 3=3/4, 4=Full penetration.

[SithLackey]

That might take a bit much off the feat, but I like the idea. Maybe if the progression was 1d3-based (1=1/2, 2=3/4, 3=full penetration), it would be a bit more applicable?

[RedScholarGypsy]

I think it's fine as is, because it is only of a critical hit. Yes, with Imp Crit on a rapier that's usually at least once a full attack, but It's not every attack. Also, if that's not your thing, stack it. Have Pen strike do 1/2 dam through DR, then make a Greater Penetrating Strike that does full at BAB 16 or something.

[Triaxx]

If you go 1d3, then you could use thirds instead.

[Anxe]

It's a balanced feat, but I can't see a single fighter taking it. They can just get adamantite+magic+alignment to bypass almost any damage reduction. And they're going to have the money at 9th level to do that without really thinking about the cost.