Tempest Cleric and Magic Initiate

[TheBirba]

Hi all,

I am joining a lvl 11 campaign and I decided to play a tempest cleric. The group has already 4 melees (2 fighters, 1 monk and 1 paladin) so I would obviously play my cleric as a buffer/healer from the second line. The domain choice is however not questionable.

I decided I would take the Magic Initiate feat to broaden my thunder/lightning options (read: for fluff), and although I am 100% sure on taking Shield as my lvl1 spell I can't decide between Shocking Grasp and Booming Blade. The choice will shape the character dramatically, here is the breakdown.

- Option 1: Shocking Grasp, from the Sorcerer list.
Half-Elf, Str 8, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 16. AC 18 (Half-Plate + Shield + 1 Dex).
Free uncommon magic item granted by DM: Wand of the War Magi +1
Wisdom spells DC 17 (+9 Att Bonus). Main melee attack: Shocking Grasp (+8 to hit, 3d8 Damage).
Pros: High Cha lets me be good in social situations; Half Elf goodies; more lightning damage; clear position in battlefield (rear); better spell DC/to hit; easy to escape melee.
Cons: No Con Saving Throws proficiency; slightly lower AC.

- Option 2: Booming Blade, from the Wizard list.
V Human, Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14 (w/ Resilient), Int 10 Wis 18, Cha 10. Ac 19 (Half-Plate + Shield + 2 Dex).
Free uncommon magic item granted by DM: Rapier +1.
Wisdom spells DC 16 (+8 Att Bonus). Main melee attack: Booming Blade (+8 to hit, 4d8+4 damage).
Pros: Higher initiative; much better Saving Throws; slightly higher AC; much better melee damage.
Cons: No Darkvision etc.; not extra lightning damage option; no clear position in battlefield; lower spell DC/to hit.

The main reason why I'm bugged is Divine Strike: in the first build it's almost useless, in the second it's quite great. Any comment, considerations or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[PeteNutButter]

First question: is multiclassing on the table? With just one level of wizard/sorcerer you pick up the desired spells but can also scale them with your 6th level slot... Maximising a 6th level witch bolt hits for 72. Shield more than once a day is just fantastic, taking 6 levels in sorcerer lets you add you cha to all lighting spell damage. Sorcerer/Tempest Cleric is a common build for good reason. Call lightning then on subsequent rounds, drop a bolt and quicken a lighting bolt or whatever you desire. A single level of wizard and the absorb elements spell would really make foes regret hitting you with lightning damage.

Bottom line: I'd avoid taking magic initiate for at will damage for a level 11 character. You should have enough spell slots that it if you are doing at will damage, the encounter isn't worth your spell slots and therefore not worth worrying about. Maybe take elemental adept instead? You get more value out of multiclassing to pick up the cantrips.

Now to actually answering your question, definitely go with booming blade. Shocking grasp is pathetic damage at that level, and not worth going into melee for, let alone investing a feat.

Now with all those melee in the party, you are probably better off blasting, buffing and occasionally healing from the back.

[Arkhios]

Magic Initiate gives you two cantrips and a first level spell. Why not take both shocking grasp AND booming blade from sorcerer. As you said it yourself, they are for fluff.

[TheBirba]

Magic Initiate gives you two cantrips and a first level spell. Why not take both shocking grasp AND booming blade from sorcerer. As you said it yourself, they are for fluff.

Because I'd rather have something else then. It's not just about the cantrips, it's about the whole build.

Also, multiclassing is not available, I forgot to mention that.

[Specter]

Definitely Booming Blade. It works with Divine Strike, and also with your Wrath of the Storm feature. It will improve your single-attack damage in ways nothing else can, except for Green-Flame Blade. And you don't need Shocking Grasp to run away, because good clerics don't run away.

[WickerNipple]

Booming Blade w/o question.

[Citan]

Magic Initiate gives you two cantrips and a first level spell. Why not take both shocking grasp AND booming blade from sorcerer. As you said it yourself, they are for fluff.

Because I'd rather have something else then. It's not just about the cantrips, it's about the whole build.

Also, multiclassing is not available, I forgot to mention that.
I don't understand your objection.

You hesitate between two cantrips for fluff questions and because of mechanic implications.
Both cantrips (and Shield spell) are on Sorcerer AND Wizard list.
So the logical best answer to your question is: take both.

And I would take them from Sorcerer because of the following:
1. +1 AC and Initiative from DEX is nice, but avoidable.
2. Lower attack stat can be compensated with Bless, ally Helping or many other ways of getting advantage. Spell DC however is not "buffable" barring 2-3 very specific and costly ways. So getting 12 DEX and 16 CHA is better than 16 DEX and 10 INT (especially when you get a magic item that will affect both Magic initiate cantrips and Cleric spells).
3. Darvision is always one powerful feature.
4. You still get to use Divine Strike with Booming Blade.

(speculation on my part: it will be easier to find a +1 weapon later than a +1 magic focus, but that's totally a wild guess since it depends solely on your DMs. And it seems yours is attentive to providing relevant equipement to his players).

[SillyPopeNachos]

Shocking grasp

[BillyBobShorton]

I think with all the defensive & buff spells assigned to Clerics, along with the features of the Tempest Domain, it's a complete waste to use an ASI/Feat just to have Shield and Shocking Grasp. Shocking grasp I sorta get as far as flavor and usefulness. No spell slots expended to dish out voltage, which can be buffed via wrath of the storm (I think?)

But shield? Really? After casting Shield of Faith you'd be at or over 20, and have a party full of melee dudes to take most of the attacks. You get 1 round of "probably will miss" and then you're back to square 1, no Shield spell for the next attack or the rest of the day/dungeon. And with Str. as your dump stat, you've all but declared yourself a back-line support character. So now you want a touch cantrip that requires you to close in because it's electricity damage that you'll get to juice up only a few times a day, subtracting from the times you can guarantee BIG damage from some of your other lightning spells already granted to the domain?

If you're set on having Shocking Grasp so badly, my advice would be to grab Find Familiar instead of Shield. There's a 1-use/day 1st lvl spell that will get your money's worth. Can cast touch spells like your Shocking Grasp or Heal, can scout, offer the help action to grant others advantage, used as a spy/listen to conversations, etc. Heck, you could even take ritual caster somewhere, dump that charisma to a 10 or 12 (you have guidance and a whole slew of cleric powers for those social ability checks), and have infinite Familiars. Plus identify, languages, unseen servant... then use your initiate 1st level spell for something better than a 1-and-done dodge spell. Like Witch Bolt. Or Expeditious Retreat. Or go Warlock and have Eldritch Blast and a 1hr/day hex to throw around.

I don't think the Tempest Cleric needs more magic. I think they are designed, or at least better suited, to be like Pseudo-Paladins with all the buffs/knockbacks/reactions/combos. But if you do want more and can't multiclass, either take ritual and mage initiate, or neither.

Dumping Str. on such a melee strong class and then using feats and other abilities to find ways to be melee anyway seems inefficient/not very economic. And yes, I do understand it's not all about min/maxing; but in this case you seem to be going "against the grain" only to be looking for ways to make up your intial sacrifice, in which case, why not just use a build that makes the most of your class already and save yourself some valuable ASI/Feats?

You can still be the healy/utility/support/cerebral style of PC, but will be able to handle yourself much better when needed instead of banking on a 1x/day Shield spell. Just saying, if you want mage initiate, make your 1 spell really count. And your other catrip-blade ward could help fill that empty void in your heart when you break up with the Shield spell. Or message. Free mind texts/walky talky. Minor illusion-distraction/cover/escape fun.

Having said that, I can think of far better feats to invest in to ensure you do a lot of storm damage if that's the whole idea behind Shocking Grasp.
Polearm Master+Sentinel-use a halberd. Put your STR up to something useable and wear full plate. You stop enemies in their tracks, knock them back, get an extra attack, get oppurtunity attacks, and they have a hard time gettimg near you. All will end up doing more storm (and normal) damage than shocking grasp, and it's safer.

Or Elemental Adept. Boost your lightning and ignore resistance (technically doubling it on those resistant). War caster is also good to maintain concentration on those needed Bless and Bane spells (or call lightning) Plus you can cast spells as opp att's. (Or call Lightning)... Spell Sniper will allow you to take an attack cantrip if you're still dead set on the Shocking Grasp, plus boost your spell range and accuracy.

With all those other (IMO, Far BETTER) options, why have an 8 strength and shield spell?

I'm not touching booming blade. You already do lightning damage when you hit stuff. If you have str (or dex w/finesse), and some feats, along with whatever magic stuff you find, you'll be dishing out plenty-esp. for a guy in a party of meat shields who intends to hang back...

And lastly, just like your spells can more than protect enough to render the Shield spell moot, you have enough buffs to make up for the proficiency in Con saves, (Resistance? Free cantrip. +d4 on a save. Enhance Ability? 2nd level spell. Advantage on con saves-plus extra HP. that far out weighs +2-+6 prof. bonus you'd have used a feat/ASI on by taking resilient, +5/6 being a # you may never see anyway depending on the campaign. Even the Lucky Feat seems a better way to accomplish your goals. 3 free rerolls.

It seems you might be building this cleric with the idea that you must be able to avoid those 1-move kills at all costs. If that's the case, or at least part of it your concept, there are more effective ways to go about it, and get a lot more bang for buck abilities/buffs.

Sorry, that was longer than I expected. Hope it helps, despite me not really buying into your initial build philosophy.

[Galadhrim]

Hi all,

I am joining a lvl 11 campaign and I decided to play a tempest cleric. The group has already 4 melees (2 fighters, 1 monk and 1 paladin) so I would obviously play my cleric as a buffer/healer from the second line. The domain choice is however not questionable.

I decided I would take the Magic Initiate feat to broaden my thunder/lightning options (read: for fluff), and although I am 100% sure on taking Shield as my lvl1 spell I can't decide between Shocking Grasp and Booming Blade. The choice will shape the character dramatically, here is the breakdown.

- Option 1: Shocking Grasp, from the Sorcerer list.
Half-Elf, Str 8, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 16. AC 18 (Half-Plate + Shield + 1 Dex).
Free uncommon magic item granted by DM: Wand of the War Magi +1
Wisdom spells DC 17 (+9 Att Bonus). Main melee attack: Shocking Grasp (+8 to hit, 3d8 Damage).
Pros: High Cha lets me be good in social situations; Half Elf goodies; more lightning damage; clear position in battlefield (rear); better spell DC/to hit; easy to escape melee.
Cons: No Con Saving Throws proficiency; slightly lower AC.

- Option 2: Booming Blade, from the Wizard list.
V Human, Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14 (w/ Resilient), Int 10 Wis 18, Cha 10. Ac 19 (Half-Plate + Shield + 2 Dex).
Free uncommon magic item granted by DM: Rapier +1.
Wisdom spells DC 16 (+8 Att Bonus). Main melee attack: Booming Blade (+8 to hit, 4d8+4 damage).
Pros: Higher initiative; much better Saving Throws; slightly higher AC; much better melee damage.
Cons: No Darkvision etc.; not extra lightning damage option; no clear position in battlefield; lower spell DC/to hit.

The main reason why I'm bugged is Divine Strike: in the first build it's almost useless, in the second it's quite great. Any comment, considerations or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

It seems like the character you want to play and the character that help optimize your party are both option 1. Your party is so melee heavy that optimizing your melee won't help nearly as much as your spell save DC for battle field control and buff/debuff. If lightning theme is your goal with magic initiate, why not go with option one but instead of shocking grasp choose lightning lure. With that charisma you should not have trouble landing it and you can throw enemies around the battlefield with pull/push fun. You still have the utility of freeing your melee friends from opportunity attacks (by pulling the enemy off of them) and you can play at short range, making your spirit guardians very useful.

[Biggstick]

It seems like the character you want to play and the character that help optimize your party are both option 1. Your party is so melee heavy that optimizing your melee won't help nearly as much as your spell save DC for battle field control and buff/debuff. If lightning theme is your goal with magic initiate, why not go with option one but instead of shocking grasp choose lightning lure. With that charisma you should not have trouble landing it and you can throw enemies around the battlefield with pull/push fun. You still have the utility of freeing your melee friends from opportunity attacks (by pulling the enemy off of them) and you can play at short range, making your spirit guardians very useful.

Playing off of this, why not just go Magic Initiate Druid? You can grab Thorn Whip and Shillelagh plus Goodberry (to hand out to team mates, ensuring they have a free way to get an ally back to 1 hp). This removes the need to depend on Strength or Dexterity altogether, as well as gives you great control on the battlefield with Thorn Whip.

As for your original thought OP, you definitely should go for Booming Blade + Warcaster. Run some Spiritual Guardians on top of that and you're one sticky PC.

Edit: Another thought. Since the DM is allowing for SCAG as it is, have you thought about simply trading your two extra skills from Half Elf for the High Elf option of a cantrip? That might solve a few of your problems...

[Herobizkit]

+1 suggestion for Druid. What a melee-heavy party needs (imo) is options to deal with multiple targets. Druids do this in spades via battle control (Entangle, Faerie Fire, Thunderwave) at level 1. They're also great healers (Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Goodberry) and general utility (Longstrider, Jump, Detect Magic).

If you really want to melee it up with the melee folks, you can always go Moon Druid and morph into animals, twice per short rest... that gives you quite a boost to your expendable HP without healing.

And if you go Land Druid, Underdark or Mountain bonus spells have some nice extra wizard-y goodness in them.

[MeeposFire]

You could go half elf (with cantrip)or high elf and take either cantrip without a feat.

Also if you take that feat find familiar is a sweet spell.

[Sir cryosin]

Definitely Booming Blade. It works with Divine Strike, and also with your Wrath of the Storm feature. It will improve your single-attack damage in ways nothing else can, except for Green-Flame Blade. And you don't need Shocking Grasp to run away, because good clerics don't run away.

And that's why all the good clerics are dead I know. Party 4 lv and we get thrown against a drow Priestess cr8 and a few drow fighters the fighter and barbarian charged at them got dropped quickly. I run in pick them up and told them run you fools. Then I got dropped the bard baled 4 turns ago the sorcerer don't know what the he11 to do. The wizard is running but still lingerie by. Now I managed to guild this party pretty good up to now. I aka claric get dropped the barbarian said he's my healing buddy I try and get his body. So she gos back the fighter had a Yolo moment and didn't run. The sorcerer is trying to parlay. I'm sitting there face in Palm rolling up a new character. Barbarian, fighter, and sorcerer gets put down with out cosign damage. Anyway I forgot why I started this post.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Tell us more of this... lingerie

[Arkhios]

Anyway I forgot why I started this post.

You also seem to have forgotten quite a few punctuation marks... again :smallamused: