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Wraithy
2007-07-12, 06:02 AM
My character was killed last session, and considering it was by another member of the party that means no resurrection.
I've decided to play an ultimate magi (actually I'll be lvl 5 so i'm technically a sorceror/wizard). so now I have to think of what spells to get, but i've never played an arcanist before, oh dear.
I've allready constructed the persona of the character (vaigly similar to Nakor from Raymond Feist's riftwar novels), but I have no idea what spells to get, for what class, or what to avoid. the only thing I can think of spell wise is this: leave all combat spells to the sorceror spell list, put miscelanious things in the spell book. also I don't want to take any ray spells, he will be weaker than his (snake) familiar in combat, ruling out most touch spells. basically the only combat spells he will get are either defensive or area effects. but this is just a loose idea and the next session grows nearer.

i have no idea what spells to take :smallfrown:
i have acces to PHB, complete mage, and the spell compendium

P.S. any roleplay tips for a character who tries to explain magic as a science?

Ikkitosen
2007-07-12, 06:13 AM
Your sorc side should have the spells that don't allow saves, since they'll be your lower level spells. Unfortunately this excludes most combat spells.

Take Practiced Spellcaster (sorc) to keep your Wiz caster level as high as possible - if your CLs are equal then you can choose which class to apply the "+1 level to lower level spellcasting class" to, so choose wizard.

Reconsider Rays - they're a good choice for your sorc side as many don't allow saves and will get spammed at people over and over, which is perfect for your sorc spells.

Wraithy
2007-07-12, 02:17 PM
are there any obscure metamagic feats I should take? (I've gained partial access to complete arcane).
any spells/feats I should avoid while making the ultimate generalist?

PlatinumJester
2007-07-12, 03:08 PM
I told you about sculpt spell, smiting spell and Craft Contingent Spell on msn.

Don't get Extend Spell, Enlarge Spell, Enpower Spell since they're lame. Also don't get Delay Spell or Co operatve Spell.

Feats to take are Eschew Materials and Sculpt Spell at level 1, Smiting Spell at Level 3, Quicken Spell at level 6, Fortify Spell or Improved Intiative or Energy Substitution (Sonic) at level 9, Craft Contingent Spell at level 12, Explosive Spell at level 15 and Chain Spell at level 18. As you know you get Alertness and Scribe Scrol as bonus feats.

As for skills Concentration, Spellcraft and Knowledge Arcana are obvious choices. Also get Craft Alchemy, Knowledge Nature and Decipher Script.

As languages go get Common, Draconic, Orc and Elven.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-07-12, 03:27 PM
What race and alignment? Is it an established campaign setting?

I generally prefer a Beguiler for the first level because of the benefits you receive: D6, lots of useful known spells as you level up, lots of skill points multiplied by four 6 + Int Mod + 1 if Human, some better weapon proficiencies, light armor proficiency with No ASF as a Beguiler (Take Armored caster if your DM is a stickler for you wizard side and ASF. At level 5 you can afford to have and wear "enchanted" mithral breast plate and or a buckler if you wish without ASF which normally increases your survivability if you are harder to hit).

Crystal keep has all the base class stats and known spells of the class in a free pdf if you are interested under the D20 open game license. The Beguiler has 14 useful known level 1 spells, 18 second level spells, 20 level 3 spells, 11 level 4 spells and 11 level 5 spells which is huge compared to a standard sorcerer. This is really sweet in a tight limited known magic spell campaign plus you get access to all known spells as soon as you level up.

Probably the next best option is a Spellcaster variant from the D20 SRD and UA with intelligence as a primary ability to synergize with your primary ability as a wizard plus access to all spell lists so can take things like Fast Healing 1 and Divine Favor and use Cure Light wands without a check over a sorcerer with charisma for your primary. Other mechanical benefits are: Two known class skills of your choice. Choice of single good Good Save (Reflex would probably be the best choice although if you go with Will you will have +4 at second level from the two classes) plus a bonus open feat instead of a familiar like a sorcerer which you would normally lose in most games since a PC normally can not have two familiars.

Although you will have lots of spells consider playing a Domain Mage variant wizard or a Specialist Wizard (the Spellcaster side could pick up a few of the better prohibited school spells plus you can take a few levels of Master Specialist Sorc -1, Wiz -1, MS - 3 before Ultimate Magus (Plus helps prepare for Arch Mage PRC)) a few more rarely hurt.

A Specialist Conjurer Master Specialist with Augmented Summoning can be pretty sweet if you know what to summon since your summoned monsters get a double bonus in hit points from the feat and the PRC. Generally your summoned monsters don't need to be extended they need more hit points to survive their summoning.

Going Diviner Specialist and forfeiting the school of Enchantment can be pretty sweet with a Beguiler.

In low to mid level games a Reserve Feat like Fiery Burst can be nice particularly if taken with a Flaw or Two (UA and D20 SRD options) and the Precocious Apprentice Feat from CA which you said you had limited access to but it depends on the campaign and the game.

Any feat that requires DM approval like leadership is pretty good.

Quicken Spell Feat as soon as you can cast level 4 spells to pay it down (Personally I am not in favor of a PC learning that feat before he can use it).

Improved Initiative is nice for helping your PC go first.

The Craft Wonderous Item feat can be pretty useful and extend your PC and the party wealth converting it into better magic items than you would normally be able to afford.

I like the Fey and Fiendish Presence and Legacy feats in CM. The First Level Magic in the Blood Feat from PGtF increases all single daily usages of all spell like abilities to 3/day each.

Never take Brew Potions with the Magic Potion Pot Maker (the name escapes me).

Hope something in there helped.

P.S. if it is going to be a long campaign going Bard -1 and then Sublime Bard later and leveling it up with Ultimate Magus can be pretty good.

Swooper
2007-07-12, 03:53 PM
Hate to bring it to you PlatinumJester, but the OP specifically stated which books he has access to and most of what you listed is from books he doesn't have.

I told you about sculpt spell, smiting spell and Craft Contingent Spell on msn.

Don't get Extend Spell, Enlarge Spell, Enpower Spell since they're lame. Also don't get Delay Spell or Co operatve Spell. I can agree that Enlarge Spell sucks, Empower Spell sucks for most non-blasters, but Extend Spell is pretty nifty actually. Double the duration of that battlefield control spell (like.. say Black Tentacles for a party favourite)? Or double the duration of some nice hours/level buff spell? Suuuure. Agreed on not getting Co-operative Spell or Delay Spell, both of which are highly situational and overall useless (unless you are going for Mage of the Arcane Order, then get Co-operative Spell of course).

Feats to take are Eschew Materials and Sculpt Spell at level 1, Smiting Spell at Level 3, Quicken Spell at level 6, Fortify Spell or Improved Intiative or Energy Substitution (Sonic) at level 9, Craft Contingent Spell at level 12, Explosive Spell at level 15 and Chain Spell at level 18. As you know you get Alertness and Scribe Scrol as bonus feats.
Eschew Materials is in CArc which he doesn't have, and also pretty unneccessary, unless you have an anal DM who likes to nitpick about components. Sculpt Spell rocks, but is in CArc too. Smiting Spell is decent, but it's in the PHB2 and he doesn't have that either. Better save Quicken Spell for later, since it's not useable till you're 9th level at first (and really, are you gonna spend that 5th level slot on a quickened 1st level spell?). Energy Substitution is in CArc (and also sucks for non-blaster mages). Craft Continent Spell is decent, but in CArc. Also, you can just get Contingency unless you barred Evocation, in which case you just use Greater Shadow Evocation instead (unless you banned Illusion too, in which case you can go sit in the corner). Explosive Spell, once again, in CArc. Also sucky. Chain Spell is good, but in CArc.



Right. There, that's taken care of. Now, I must admit I have neither CM nor SpC so I can't help all that much - however, for spell selection I can point you here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19085).

Ikkitosen speaks the truth about getting no-save spells for your sorceror side.

If your DM will let you, get the alternate class feature from PHB2 (which I know you don't have, but there's not much mechanics involved) and switch the familiar from the sorcerer side in exchange for no time increase on metamagicking.

You should specialize on the wizard side, and get the important spells from the school you dropped with the sorcerer side. Win-win.

PlatinumJester
2007-07-12, 03:57 PM
Escew Materials is in PHB andour DM does nit pick about stuff like that. Also me and Wraithy are good mates since we go to the same school and are in the same DnD groups so he can borrow my CArc or PHB 2 anytime.

Swooper
2007-07-12, 03:59 PM
Escew Materials is in PHB andour DM does nit pick about stuff like that. Also me and Wraithy are good mates since we go to the same school and are in the same DnD groups so he can borrow my CArc or PHB 2 anytime.
Oh right. It was originally in Tome and Blood, so I remembered it not being in the PHB. Sorry. It's still likely not worth it.

psychoticbarber
2007-07-12, 04:16 PM
Empower Spell sucks for most non-blasters,

Not sure I agree. My Enchanter only has the one metamagic feat, and it's empower spell, and the purpose is to empower things that do ability damage, like Touch of Idiocy. So if you Empower spells that do damage to things that have small numbers (like Int) instead of big ones (like HP) it can be a very effective (and cost effective) strategy.

Swooper
2007-07-12, 04:56 PM
Not sure I agree. My Enchanter only has the one metamagic feat, and it's empower spell, and the purpose is to empower things that do ability damage, like Touch of Idiocy. So if you Empower spells that do damage to things that have small numbers (like Int) instead of big ones (like HP) it can be a very effective (and cost effective) strategy.
Hmm, valid. It's a relatively small list of spells however, that would benefit from it - also, I said "most" :smallwink:

Beren One-Hand
2007-07-12, 10:33 PM
I wholeheartedly endorse taking Practiced Spellcaster for your Sorcerer side before entering the class. Not only does it keep your Sorcerer spell-effects basically even with your Wizard spell-effects throughout your career, but it allows you to get 9th level wizard spells once you've reached 19th level. Without it your max is 8th level wizard spells at 19th level. (It does sacrifice 5th level Sorcerer spells though, unless you take a level of Sorcerer spells and 4 levels of wizard spells.)

As for Meta-magic feats, I like Extend Spell and Heighten Spell. Chain spell is nice, especially if you take Archmage to be able to make your touch spells into reach spells.

Wraithy
2007-07-13, 07:42 AM
where can I find the practised spellcaster feat?

I've decided (since looking at races of the dragon) to take draconic heritage, versatile spellcaster, and the power word spells (most of them) to compliment my sorc (i'm going to wait a while before I get versatile spellcaster).

also i'm a human who can NEVER, regardless of buffs etc. survive in combat for more than a swift action:smallbiggrin:

Arbitrarity
2007-07-13, 07:44 AM
:smalleek: Power word pain!


:smallyuk:

PlatinumJester
2007-07-13, 08:32 AM
Put all the spells you'll be using a lot like fly, greater invisibilty, dispel magic etc on to your spontaneous spell casting slots.

If you can get a Twilight Mithral Shirt which crossed with Shield and Mage Armour Greater gives you an AC of 24.

Also, get a leather bind for your spell book so it becomes water proof and then trap it with some nasty spell (Will save rather than Fortitude) otherwise Tug the Barbarian might decide to destroy it.

Or if somehow does destroy Use Slide, Greater to chuck him off a cliff.

bosssmiley
2007-07-13, 02:26 PM
My character was killed last session, and considering it was by another member of the party that means no resurrection.
I've decided to play an ultimate magi (actually I'll be lvl 5 so i'm technically a sorceror/wizard). so now I have to think of what spells to get, but i've never played an arcanist before, oh dear.

Am I alone in thinking you should maybe get the hang of playing a single spell list caster before leaping into dual-casting madness? :smallconfused:


I've allready constructed the persona of the character (vaguely similar to Nakor from Raymond Feist's riftwar novels), but I have no idea what spells to get, for what class, or what to avoid. the only thing I can think of spell wise is this: leave all combat spells to the sorceror spell list, put miscellaneous things in the spell book.

Stick utility/defensive buff stuff on your sorc list. Wizardly metamagic on yer attack spells is gold at higher levels.


also I don't want to take any ray spells, he will be weaker than his (snake) familiar in combat, ruling out most touch spells. basically the only combat spells he will get are either defensive or area effects. but this is just a loose idea and the next session grows nearer.

i have no idea what spells to take :smallfrown:
i have acces to PHB, complete mage, and the spell compendium

Google "Being Batman" +"Logic Ninja". Click link 1. Read, gawp, laugh, nod in agreement, dominate the table with arcane win. :smallcool:

...although the style of wizard suggested in that guide is very different from the evoker-type your description above implies.


P.S. any roleplay tips for a character who tries to explain magic as a science?

RP tips for a pseudo-scientist arcanist? "Ars Magica (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=774)" (free) and "Mage" (not free, but conceptually awesome) are good go-to points here, as is the "Girl Genius" webcomic.

Wraithy
2007-07-14, 06:15 AM
i've changed my opinion on rays, I can see they'ren quite useful.

the reason i've gone for this dual spellcaster sytem over pure wizard or sorceror is because i've allways had issues with the limitations of the systems, in the wizards case: you need to prepare before hand, in the sorcerors case: you can only know a limited number. both of these are fair because they balance out the classes to stop a 1st level wizard from defeating a hoard of epic level fighters. but the ultimate magus prestiege displays my ideal spellcaster, exchangeing higher level spells for volume and versatility.
also I don't want to fall into the cliché parts of blasty McSorc or the stuck up elven wizard, because magic ain't art, you can't do "anything your heart desires" with it, and just because you know how to cast fireball doesn't entitle you to blow up the Inn.