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PlatinumJester
2007-07-12, 03:23 PM
Like Wraithy (see Ultrimate Magi thread), my character was killed last session by the same PC. My new character is a Raptoran Duskblade. He uses a Fullblade and has Weapon Focus in it.

However I need to know if anyone has any good advice on what spells, additional feats and skills I should get (though I am definately getting ranks in use UMD since I'm gonna get a wand of cure light wounds since our party has no heal bot).

Thanks :smallwink:

P.S he has 14 Int thus giving him 32 skill points.

Jimp
2007-07-12, 03:42 PM
Like Wraithy (see Ultrimate Magi thread), my character was killed last session by the same PC.

I'm interested in hearing the story behind this :smallconfused:

Person_Man
2007-07-12, 03:48 PM
Spells: Your Duskblade spell list is pretty limited and straightforward, and you cast spontaneously off of it. Picking the best ones for your known spells is pretty easy. Off the top of my head, I'd say that your best spells are generally chill touch, scorching ray, see invisibility, protection from energy, vampiric touch, dimension door, dispel magic, and disintegrate. But I'm sure there are a few others I'm missing.

Feats: Drop fullblade proficiency, and drop Weapon Focus. They both add minor non-scaled damage bonuses. I would suggest Power Attack, Leap Attack, Battle Jump (Unapproachable East), and Shock Trooper for offense. Or your standard reach weapon+Improved Trip+Knock-Down (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineFeats.html) for defense. Or reach weapon + Combat Reflexes + Evasive Reflexes (Tome of Battle) + Hold the Line + Karmic Strike for insane defense.

Skills: UMD is not a class Skill for you, so there's really no reason for you to take it. Any Rogue, Ranger, Paladin, Bard, etc. should be able to use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds without issue. Failing that, a Sorcerer or Wizard with access to Complete Champion can do it.

PlatinumJester
2007-07-12, 03:53 PM
I'm interested in hearing the story behind this :smallconfused:

Uh said player destroyed a scroll I wanted so I tryed to cast web on him so he/she kill me (even though I surrendered). Then later Wraithy killed a helpless Gnome PC because he played a kobold, so the player (whose PC loved Gnomes) decided to destroy the kobolds longbow and then kill him when he was on the floor.

I don't mind that he killed me though because he/she was't trying to be mean or spiteful but was just roleplaying a little too well. I forgave him/her completely later that day.

Also I am keeping a Fullblade since it is my signature weapon for melee combatants.

Isomenes
2007-07-12, 10:47 PM
Spells: Your Duskblade spell list is pretty limited and straightforward, and you cast spontaneously off of it. Picking the best ones for your known spells is pretty easy. Off the top of my head, I'd say that your best spells are generally chill touch, scorching ray, see invisibility, protection from energy, vampiric touch, dimension door, dispel magic, and disintegrate. But I'm sure there are a few others I'm missing.

Do you find that chill touch's strength damage gets through a lot? I am iffy about it compared to say, shocking grasp, which does a little more direct damage. Also, does chill touch's charge last after the initial arcane-channeled attack? I know it lasts as a touch attack, so do you need to channel it again as a standard action, or would you rule that a Duskblade could then make a full attack with a "charged" weapon?

Swift invisibility is a useful way to up your attack rolls against foes who can't see/sense invisible creatures, and a handy way to avoid AoOs.

TheThan
2007-07-12, 10:50 PM
Since I try to never pass up the opportunity to promote my own work. Hereís a good article I wrote on how to play duskblades in the spoiler in my sig. Itís not quite finished, but read and be enlightened.

PS: stay well away from Stand its a useless spell.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-07-12, 10:58 PM
Since I try to never pass up the opportunity to promote my own work. Hereís a good article I wrote on how to play duskblades in the spoiler in my sig. Itís not quite finished, but read and be enlightened.

PS: stay well away from Stand its a useless spell.

And said article was quite helpful to me in making a duskblade recently.

If that's not enough info for you, here's (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=837888) another good handbook on duskblades.

TheThan
2007-07-13, 01:11 AM
And said article was quite helpful to me in making a duskblade recently.



Glad to be of service!

Wraithy
2007-07-13, 07:46 AM
Uh said player destroyed a scroll I wanted so I tryed to cast web on him so he/she kill me (even though I surrendered). Then later Wraithy killed a helpless Gnome PC because he played a kobold, so the player (whose PC loved Gnomes) decided to destroy the kobolds longbow and then kill him when he was on the floor.


LET THE RECORD SHOW (for no aparrent reason) THAT IT WAS A SHORTBOW!!!

:smallbiggrin:

PlatinumJester
2007-07-13, 08:22 AM
Thank you everyone for all your help.
I'm still going to get UMD since our party has no paladin, rogue, ranger or bard and the only other who can heal is our monk who is generally useless at it (with 3 ranks and no medi kit). I've always wondered why the Duskblade on P20 of PHB2 has a wand which she can't use (properly).

I kinda need someone to confirm my spell list (basically tell me what to change etc).

Lvl 1
Mage Armour (DM allowed me to swap it for Jump. Score)
Kelgore's Firebolt
Shocking Grasp
Blade of Blood
Resist Energy
True Strike

Lvl 2
Seeking Ray
Animalistic Power
Touch of Idiocy
Dimension Hop
(No Swift Fly since he's a Raptorian)

Lvl 3
Greater Magic Weapon
Doom Scarabs
Regroup
Vampiric Touch
Halt (decided to have 3 lvl 4 spells since most of them suck)

Lvl 4
Dispel Magic
Dimension Door
Enervate


Lvl 5
Chain Lightening
Disintergrate
Polar Ray
Waves of Fatigue

Wraithy
2007-07-13, 08:34 AM
remember that because you're a raptoran you can cast all air type spells at +1 caster level

Person_Man
2007-07-13, 09:04 AM
Do you find that chill touch's strength damage gets through a lot? I am iffy about it compared to say, shocking grasp, which does a little more direct damage. Also, does chill touch's charge last after the initial arcane-channeled attack? I know it lasts as a touch attack, so do you need to channel it again as a standard action, or would you rule that a Duskblade could then make a full attack with a "charged" weapon?

Swift invisibility is a useful way to up your attack rolls against foes who can't see/sense invisible creatures, and a handy way to avoid AoOs.

The trick with Chill Touch is that you only use it against undead. You hit them, and they must make a Will Save (generally poor for most non-intelligent undead) or be panicked (ie, they run away, provoking AoO). Trust me, unless your DM ignores one of the most common monster types in D&D, it's hugely important that you have it in your arsenal.

Against everyone else, yes, there are numerous other better spells to use.

Using Arcane Channeling to channel a spell into an attack discharges the spell, even if the spell would normally last longer. If you're lower then 13th level, it's discharged after your 1st attack. If you're 13th level or higher, you can channel it into a full attack action.



I kinda need someone to confirm my spell list (basically tell me what to change etc).

Spells I suggest dropping:

Mage Armor: You can just buy and wear superior light armor. Why use a spell?

Greater Magic Weapon: You're a Duskblade. You should buy the most powerful reach weapon you can. Assuming your DM is using standard wealth by level, this weapon should be far superior to what you get from this spell. GMW is for archers.

Other then that, you look pretty solid. Someone told me there are some Duskblade spells in a very recent expansion somewhere, but I don't know which one. You might want to check around.

Swooper
2007-07-13, 09:21 AM
Greater Magic Weapon: You're a Duskblade. You should buy the most powerful reach weapon you can. Assuming your DM is using standard wealth by level, this weapon should be far superior to what you get from this spell. GMW is for archers.
I beg to differ. Get a +1 weapon with all the special abilities you want (speed, keen, elemental damage, whatever floats your boat) and then simply cast a GMW on it to up the enhancement bonus on it. Simple and effective.

PlatinumJester
2007-07-13, 09:22 AM
Yeah I just kinda figured that Mage Armour would be helpful sinc eit buffs AC by 4 and lasts an hour a level. Which with my +1dex, +4 from mithral chain shirt and +1 from my dastana would give me 20AC and you can never get enough AC.

As for a reach weapon I'm a bit curious to why everyone says a duskblade needs one. However with my equipment etc I'm left with just 2gp (after borrowing from Wraithy's character) so I guess I'm gonna have to find one.

Keld Denar
2007-07-13, 09:50 AM
Mage Armor is an armor bonus, and does not stack with the armor bonus from chain shirt, etc. The only time it would be better than a chain shirt is when you are fighting incorporials or things that do touch attacks a lot.

Also, if I remember right, long spears are reach weapons, and are practially free. Not a bad start until you can afford the more favorable glaive or glaive-guisarme-glaive-glaive-guisarme-glaive-glaive-guisarme.

If you do get a long spear, look into getting steadfast boots asap, free setting vs a charge means double damage with a long spear, 4x damage if you crit. Hurray multipliers!

PlatinumJester
2007-07-13, 10:02 AM
Yeah I can't afford a longspear :smallannoyed:
I still don't see why I need a reach weapon.

Ikkitosen
2007-07-13, 10:02 AM
Mage Armor is an armor bonus, and does not stack with the armor bonus from chain shirt, etc. The only time it would be better than a chain shirt is when you are fighting incorporials or things that do touch attacks a lot.

Note that Mage Armour doesn't help against touch attacks, but DOES help against incorporeal touch attacks, which shouldn't really be called touch attacks at all.

Still, not worth taking for a duskblade.

Tellah
2007-07-13, 10:18 AM
Yeah I can't afford a longspear :smallannoyed:
I still don't see why I need a reach weapon.

You need a reach weapon because it increases the area you threaten. Once you hit 13th level, you'll be able to channel a spell into each of your attacks, affecting each target once. This means that you'll want to be able to hit as many creatures at a time as possible--hence, reach weapons.

Also, two-handed reach weapons are superior for use with the power attack line of feats. The classic build setup is this:
-Power Attack
-Improved Bull Rush
-Shock Trooper
-Knock-down
-Combat Reflexes
-Friendly wizard casts Enlarge Person
Dump your AC to power attack with Shock Trooper, then knock your opponents to the ground when they try to move in close to attack you. If they can't get next to you, your lowered AC is irrelevant.

PlatinumJester
2007-07-13, 03:47 PM
You still need AC for range attacks such as arrows etc

Person_Man
2007-07-13, 04:39 PM
I concede the point on the Greater Magic Weapon with a +1 Flaming Wounding Etc Weapon. I'll have to remember that one. But I assume there's an arcane caster in the group - since he has so many more spells then you do, shouldn't he memorize it instead of you?

Tellah is entirely correct about using a reach weapon. If you need your AC high because of ranged attackers, then you always choose not dump everything into Shock Trooper when you charge. Otherwise, having a larger reach is always preferable compared to a few points of damage that you might squeeze out of using a greatsword or whatnot.

Lolth
2007-07-13, 10:18 PM
This is just my $.02 of course. YMMV.

I can't say I found Than's Duskblade article that handy. Maybe it's just my play style, but it seemed unsatisfying to me.

As for spells, as people have pointed out, Mage Armor doesn't stack with the real thing. Now, if you could get your DM to let you swap Shield in, that would be made of win.

Chill Touch is mostly useful against weak undead. Shocking Grasp is useful against a whole lot of things. To me, it's better than Blade of Blood if you're 3rd level or higher, and better than Chill Touch across the board.

Depending on how the DM handles the mechanics, Deflect (or Lesser Deflect) is potentially life-saving.

As for which weapon you choose, etc., really, that's flavor and up to you. If you love the idea of toting around a Fullblade, go for it. A lot of your damage will be coming from channeled spells (Shocking Grasp, Vampiric Touch, etc.) in any event.

My current Duskblade is high dex, finesse, spell zapping, for as much AC as I can pile on (Combat Expertise + much Dex helps this). It's kinda the reverse Power Attacker, substituting Channeling. I'm not sure how that would work in a 4 encounters per day environment, longevity wise, but it works very well in our chat environment.

Good luck with your Duskblade, and I hope he (she?) turns out to be awesome fun!

Rad
2007-07-14, 02:14 AM
Chill Touch is mostly useful against weak undead. Shocking Grasp is useful against a whole lot of things. To me, it's better than Blade of Blood if you're 3rd level or higher, and better than Chill Touch across the board.

there are two things for blade of blood over shocking grasp: it has a swift action casting time, meaning that you can do that AND channel something else on the same round (even shocking grasp) and the damage it adds is added to the weapon damage, thus bypassing energy immunities and (depending on your DM) being multiplied on critical hits.

As far as I know, chill touch works bad with arcane channeling because you have to forfeit the extra uses.

Lolth
2007-07-14, 03:56 PM
You are of course correct, re: what Blade of Blood is useful for, and for that reason my Duskblade does know it, though as a rule uses Shocking Grasp unless for some reason only having a Swift Action to spend, needing to add both, or dealing with something zap-resistant.

Chill Touch, on the other hand, I go nowhere near.

PlatinumJester
2007-07-14, 04:20 PM
Yeah chill touch is a bit crap.

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-14, 08:31 PM
When it comes to spells: My suggestion is this: Grab Vampiric Touch. Drop two feats and pick up Arcane Thesis: Vampiric Touch and Enervate Spell.

Now grab a spell-storing weapon(I prefer to use two but choices are up to the player). Every morning, store a Enervating Vampiric Touch in it. Because of Arcane Thesis, it doesn't use a 4th level slot. Enervate Spell is only a +1, and it deals 150% damage to living targets(IE: All that vampiric touch can affect anyway).

If you immediately arcane channel another vampiric touch during this attack, you do 3d6+STR+X+Y+(20d6+50%) and gain half of that 20d6 as temporary HP. After the battle, reset your enervating Vampiric Touch.

Dhavaer
2007-07-14, 08:40 PM
Where is enervate spell from? Libris Mortis?

ZeroNumerous
2007-07-14, 08:45 PM
Yes. Ten character limit..

PlatinumJester
2007-07-15, 06:14 AM
What does X + Y stand for?

Armads
2007-07-15, 06:48 AM
Why use Enervate Spell over Empower Spell? Enervate's the same thing, but more limited, isn't it?

EDIT: Enervate Spell's a +2, actually.

Isomenes
2007-07-15, 01:28 PM
The trick with Chill Touch is that you only use it against undead. You hit them, and they must make a Will Save (generally poor for most non-intelligent undead) or be panicked (ie, they run away, provoking AoO). Trust me, unless your DM ignores one of the most common monster types in D&D, it's hugely important that you have it in your arsenal.

Against everyone else, yes, there are numerous other better spells to use.

Especially once you get to mid-level--a Duskblade has a wealth of 1st level spells known by 9th (11), so it won't hurt to pick it up. I think I very much agree with your reasoning on this now.

Dhavaer
2007-07-15, 06:47 PM
Especially once you get to mid-level--a Duskblade has a wealth of 1st level spells known by 9th (11), so it won't hurt to pick it up. I think I very much agree with your reasoning on this now.

What? Unless you're foregoing on 2nd level spells, and taking Extra Spell, how are you getting 11 first level spells?

Isomenes
2007-07-15, 09:06 PM
What? Unless you're foregoing on 2nd level spells, and taking Extra Spell, how are you getting 11 first level spells?

Oh, there I go completely misinterpreting the text again :smallredface: I took "any" to mean "each". I thank you greatly for fixing my understanding.

Even so, the Duskblade seems to work best when not relying on spells with a save DC, and there's not a lot of selection, so chill touch isn't terribly offputting in terms of limiting yourself regarding spells known.