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Kylecaraway
2016-11-07, 08:19 AM
Ki Sword master

Class is in maintenance.

One that dedicates his life to the sword. He hones his reflexes and sword play to perfection, so he may battle with finesse.

Hd.8
Same skill set as duelist.
Skill start: 6+intx4
Weapon pro. All light and martial
Armor pro. None.
Start gold. 6d4x10g

Lvl. bab. saves. Ki. Ac. Sp.

1. 1. 0/2/2. 1. 0. 0

2. 2. 0/3/3. 2. 0. 0

3. 3. 1/3/3. 3. 0. 10ft

4. 4. 1/4/4. 5. 0. 10ft

5. 5. 1/4/4. 6. 1. 10ft

6. 6/1. 2/5/5. 7. 1. 20ft

7. 7/2. 2/5/5. 9. 1. 20ft

8. 8/3. 2/6/6. 12. 1. 20ft

9. 9/4. 3/6/6. 13. 1. 30ft

10. 10/5. 3/7/7. 14. 2. 30ft

11. 11/6/1. 3/7/7. 20. 2. 30ft

12. 12/7/2. 4/8/8. 21. 2. 40ft

13. 13/8/3. 4/8/8. 22. 2. 40ft

14. 14/9/4. 4/9/9. 30. 2. 40ft

15. 15/10/5. 5/9/9. 31. 3. 50ft

16. 16/11/6/1. 5/10/10. 32. 3. 50ft

17. 17/12/7/2. 5/10/10. 42. 3. 50ft

18. 18/13/8/3. 6/11/11. 43. 3. 60ft

19. 19/14/9/4. 6/11/11. 44. 3. 60ft

20. 20/15/10/5. 6/12/12. 58. 4. 60ft


Feats

Lvl. Feats.

1. Flurry of blades,

2. Evasion, ki blade.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9. Improved evasion

10. Improved Ki blade

11. , greater flurry of blades

12. Ki step,

13.

14.

15.

16.

17.

18.

19.

20.

Flurry of blades.
Lvl.
1. -2/-2

2. -1/-1

3. 0/0

4. +1/+1

5. +2/+2

6. +3/+3

7. +4/+4

8. +5/+5/0

9. +6/+6/+1

10. +7/+7/+2

11. +8/+8/+8/+3

12. +9/+9/+9/+4

13. +9/+9/+9/+4

15. +10/+10/+10/+5

16. +11/+11/+11/+6/+1

17. +12/+12/+12/+7/+3

18. +13/+13/+13/+8/+3

19. +14/+14/+14/+9/+4

20. +15/+15/+15/+10/+5

Flurry of blades acts as flurry of blow. Cost 1 ki per character level.

Ki blade.


Greater flurry of blades.


Ki aura.

Swaoeaeieu
2016-11-07, 08:21 AM
homebrew i assume?
could you elaborate on the purpose of this new class and the design choises made?

Karl Aegis
2016-11-07, 09:12 AM
So if a Fighter is a Swordsman, this is a Master Fighter?

Strange BAB progression and many dead levels. I feel as though it can't do much else besides adopt a stance. How does one adopt four stances at once without looking ridiculous?

Inevitability
2016-11-07, 09:24 AM
This should be in homebrew. I suggest asking a mod to move your thread.

Jack_McSnatch
2016-11-07, 10:19 AM
Why does it have the cleric BaB?

In any style you use, a "master" swordsman needs to be able to parry, feint, and riposte. They need solid footwork, and they need to be able to get in under or around an opponent's defenses. Speaking purely in D&D terms, they need expertise, reflexes, the riposte feat from dragon compendium, and a whole slew of other things. And that's just feats. A swordsman archetype should have a prescision damage ability like sneak attack or skirmish, but not as much as a rogue/scout

EDIT: Why exactly do stances give a -2 to ac? The whole point of stances is to be able to defend effectively and attack readily. The only stance that might actually drop ac would be zero stance or fool's guard, but those are tricks.

Inevitability
2016-11-07, 10:27 AM
Why does it have the cleric BaB?

It doesn't: clerics don't end with +19 BAB. I'm not sure what it is using for BAB, though.

Jack_McSnatch
2016-11-07, 10:35 AM
It doesn't: clerics don't end with +19 BAB. I'm not sure what it is using for BAB, though.
Well that doesn't make any sense either. Even at 1st level, If they've devoted their life to the sword, they're not going to be flailing it ineffectively like a rogue or a wizard.

ExLibrisMortis
2016-11-07, 11:23 AM
It doesn't: clerics don't end with +19 BAB. I'm not sure what it is using for BAB, though.
It's just a transposed bab column; increase all numbers by 1 for the correct values.

Should be in homebrew, and I suggest checking out Tome of Battle.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-15, 07:59 AM
It is homebrew but i thought i put it on there opps and the class wasnt done i was still working on it i just had another class i was working on and this was a side project to get info. Sorry for posting in wrong category.

Also if your willing to give some feed back i changed the class around and based its bab and saves off of the rogue but gave him a ki amount to spend and based his feats mostly off of the monk since it matches more of a monk with ki. I do understand that some of the homebrewed abilities are to strong witch is why i need feed back. I would wish to make this class balanced with core classes and i realize that it is extremely hard to do but if there are any feats from core i can replace them with or convert my ki system to or even get rid of the ki amount and convert the ki strike abilities to match a blade better. Thank you for any feed back. If wish for me to delete page just post if more than 50% say yes i will.

Also i dont care about what d&d considers a master in something this is a homebrew class of my creation and ultimately i will make the decisions on what the class can do.

In other words stop meta gaming

weckar
2016-11-15, 03:29 PM
You want mechanical feedback but no metagaming? And a Quadpost? Oh my man, oh my...

Deadline
2016-11-15, 04:18 PM
So it's a worse version of a Monk? Monks are already terrible, and nothing you've presented here looks overpowered. It actually looks really weak. I can't quite figure out why it doesn't have full BAB. You aren't clear on when the Ki pool refreshes. If it's per encounter, then you need to reduce the costs of, well, everything. If it's per day, you might want to rethink the whole system, because you'll be getting maybe 2-3 ki based attacks per day, and then run out of ki points. That's not much for a "Ki Sword Master".

Can it wear armor or not? If not, then does it have the Monk's wisdom based AC? Because if not, it will be getting splattered in melee, which is where it has to be to take advantage of its abilities. Given that it's mostly based around full attacks, the speed bonus is pretty pointless.

Take a look at a Monk 10/Kensai 10 with the Whirling Steel Strike feat (it lets you treat a longsword as a Monk weapon). It seems like it would outperform your homebrew at every step (and Monk 10/Kensai 10 is already pretty weak). You've certainly got an interesting nugget of an idea here, all you need to do now is to power it up quite a bit. Alternatively, if you haven't seen it already, the Swordsage from the Tome of Battle sounds like it might be a good fit for what you are going for here. You may want to look into that for some design ideas and inspiration.

LordOfCain
2016-11-15, 04:20 PM
and Monk 10/Kensai 10 is already pretty very weak

Fixed that for ya. :smallbiggrin:

Kylecaraway
2016-11-15, 07:47 PM
It says none next to the armor pro so dont know why you didnt see that or at least i thought i put it there but his wisdom will work that way. I was thinking the ki pool was low so i would like some advice there and he has flurry of blades should i scale that the same or should i increase it. And im not sure why the abilities would be bad if they could be increased by stacking the ki i would just have to change the ki per day.

Jack_McSnatch
2016-11-15, 11:00 PM
Also i dont care about what d&d considers a master in something this is a homebrew class of my creation and ultimately i will make the decisions on what the class can do.

I was talking real life, cause I'm a fencer IRL, and swordfighting is just about the only thing I can talk about with 100% certainty. And once again, a master swordsman shouldn't have a 3/4 bab. Bab is how capable you are in combat. A 3/4 means you can hold your own, but you aren't a master.

As it is, your homebrew class flops sporadically between too powerful, and not powerful enough. In fact, his abilities don't even seem to revolve around the use of a sword. High crit range and damage does not a swordsman make. Give him some ability to increase his AC with elaborate parrying. Elemental damage is cool, but you might replace some of these ki abilities with sword style abilities. A two weapon fighter would do things like attack in response to an enemy's failed attack. A single sword user might gain uncanny dodge, or a more powerful power attack if they're a two handed fighter. A sword and board would get something of a rapid strike. This is just from my experience, but that's what defines a capable swordsman. If none of that sounds like "your master swordsman" than what you're building isn't an expert with a sword, it's a monk with a pointy stick.

Tl;dr if you want to play a monk with a sword, play a monk with a sword and take the unorthodox flurry feat. Go into Kensai. Boom, you're done.

Further Tl;dr, and if you want to play an absurd anime swordsman with a flaming sword, they made a whole book about that. It was called Tome of Battle.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 06:27 AM
You mean the Swordsage that uses maneuvers.

Also fencing is a completely didferent fighting method then most swords in d&d. You wouldnt use a longsword to fence with would you a sword msater would actually be someone who knows how to use all swords to the fullest advantage and as i said the other class that was up wasnt finished and i read your post wrong i thought it said in d&d terms for the sword master topic. My bad.

weckar
2016-11-16, 06:39 AM
Kyle, don't take this the wrong way; but it would be a lot easier, and less frustrating, to read your posts if you started using some commas.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 06:42 AM
Yea im not a gammar nazi sorry about that ill try and keep an eye out for that and idk why people keep posting negative **** only, i asked for help and all anyone can say is class isnt good. Well no ****, thats why i asked for help.

Also show me a class that works off ki point that isnt kensi or whatever it is, i know this tome of battle and it isnt what i wanted to make hence why i have ****ing ki point and monk abilities. Send me something relevant to the class i made like how to improved it more than a list of two feats and oh go tome of battle or go kensi **** those, if i wanted to make those i wouldve.

Toward mister fencers i am gonna take your advice with those riposite i think is how its spelled and the parrys, all of it but i would like to keep the ki maybe not the abilities though. And question, if a sword master class has to have a full bab then why doesnt the duelest have full bab when he would be the closest core class to a swordsman.

weckar
2016-11-16, 07:05 AM
The Ninja uses a Ki system as well, but its implementation is rather different from what you are doing here. May be worth looking into though.

Also, the edit button is in the lower-right corner of a post - for future reference.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 07:05 AM
Sorry thats not the core one i was talking about swashbuckler. Duelest is prestige.

Karl Aegis
2016-11-16, 07:06 AM
So you took the worst aspects of the lurk and monk, combined them together without fixing any of the problems with the play ability of either class, cut out psionic powers, sneak attack and good saves, and expected it to work.

I don't see any reason why I would play this over a lurk, a monk, or a lurk/monk multiclass.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 07:07 AM
Lol thats not what i ment. I know were the edit button is lol.

weckar
2016-11-16, 07:23 AM
Then it may be better for the legibility of the whole topic to edit your last post if it is still the last post in the topic, rather than posting 3 or 4 times in a row :smallsmile:

Inevitability
2016-11-16, 08:28 AM
I suggest removing 'furry aura' (which I assume is meant to read 'fury aura'). Abilities that make you attack teammates are never fun. Destructive rage can be modeled in better ways than forced PvP.

Jack_McSnatch
2016-11-16, 10:25 AM
Fencing is the generic catch-all term for fighting with a sword. If you're using a longsword, a broadsword, a shortsword, or even a greatsword, you're still fencing.

Anyway, I see a lot of holy/negative/elemental energy stuff in your progression, which to me says "magic user" rather than "master swordsman." Are you trying to make a mundane (someone with no magic ability), or a gish? (someone who's physical abilities are supplemented by magic.)

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 11:15 AM
I know what the word fencing means i was more talking about the actual sport. But i would rather its act as you said before with the parrys and etc. I just want there to be ki related abilities as well. I also am in the middle of reworking, just im at work and only get to work on it during my breaks.


So you took the worst aspects of the lurk and monk, combined them together without fixing any of the problems with the play ability of either class, cut out psionic powers, sneak attack and good saves, and expected it to work.

I don't see any reason why I would play this over a lurk, a monk, or a lurk/monk multiclass.

Way to post only negative things and no solutions as i just stated before you posted this, im not interested in your negativity. If i wanted bad feed back i would go play league of legends while kids **** talk me over texting.


I suggest removing 'furry aura' (which I assume is meant to read 'fury aura'). Abilities that make you attack teammates are never fun. Destructive rage can be modeled in better ways than forced PvP.

Agreed, but im having trouble finding a negative solution that isnt just lowering ac like a barbarian would for his rage. What are other methods of a negative effect cause i cant find any. A reference link will do find i just need help finding this.

Inevitability
2016-11-16, 11:35 AM
Way to post only negative things and no solutions as i just stated before you posted this, im not interested in your negativity. If i wanted bad feed back i would go play league of legends while kids **** talk me over texting.

Fine.

Positive: BAB follows a legal progression.

Negative: Attacks are poorly-written and fail to make any kind of sense, 'bleeding damage' isn't a thing, no-save con damage is something that shouldn't be in the game (not to mention that it doesn't make sense), abilities have cheesy names, no primary melee should have 3/4ths BAB (swordsage least has maneuvers to compensate), class skills should probably be expanded (no craft and profession?), class features are weak (slow fall ain't no capstone), class features are cheaply copied (like 80% of that is straight from the monk), class will have horrible AC, class gets more ki powers than exist, fluff is nonexistent. Also, your overall attitude towards people providing honest criticism has been extremely hostile.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 12:09 PM
Fine.

Positive: BAB follows a legal progression.

Negative: Attacks are poorly-written and fail to make any kind of sense, 'bleeding damage' isn't a thing, no-save con damage is something that shouldn't be in the game (not to mention that it doesn't make sense), abilities have cheesy names, no primary melee should have 3/4ths BAB (swordsage least has maneuvers to compensate), class skills should probably be expanded (no craft and profession?), class features are weak (slow fall ain't no capstone), class features are cheaply copied (like 80% of that is straight from the monk), class will have horrible AC, class gets more ki powers than exist, fluff is nonexistent. Also, your overall attitude towards people providing honest criticism has been extremely hostile.

If you look ive only been hostile to those who dont put solutions and just negative feed back, thats not what forms are for. And i left it poorly done cause i knew i would have to go in a fix it later the abilities dont need fancy name, i get to the point of what an ability does and most of the feats in the game are poorly named to begin with. Cleave gives another attack but that not even the word's definition. And if all melee classes are supposed to have a full bab the what the swashbuckler's excuse. I know that sword sage gets maneuvers to compensate and im working on reworking the class as of 4 hours ago and i explained why in an earlier post. Also im right, you only posted something negative with no solution. Tell me if you were in progress of making something and trying to fine tune it, would you be mad if all that was posted is negative comments with no solutions. You probably would and would become hostile to those who aren' t actually helping.


If you look ive only been hostile to those who dont put solutions and just negative feed back, thats not what forms are for. And i left it poorly done cause i knew i would have to go in a fix it later the abilities dont need fancy name, i get to the point of what an ability does and most of the feats in the game are poorly named to begin with. Cleave gives another attack but that not even the word's definition. And if all melee classes are supposed to have a full bab the what the swashbuckler's excuse. I know that sword sage gets maneuvers to compensate and im working on reworking the class as of 4 hours ago and i explained why in an earlier post. Also im right, you only posted something negative with no solution. Tell me if you were in progress of making something and trying to fine tune it, would you be mad if all that was posted is negative comments with no solutions. You probably would and would become hostile to those who aren' t actually helping.

Also you are meta gaming super hard, bleeding doesnt exist lol ok so your saying that its impossible for someone to bleed out cause this is 3.5. If every homebrew fallowed this logic of having to fallow mechanics that only exist in game then they wouldnt be homebrew now would they. Homebrewing is about experimenting in the making of a new class and there are no rules to homebrewing. I see people make up theyre own mechanics for classes all the time but i bet you it took them awhile to balance out and figure out what really works and what doesnt. So all i ask is to post solutions not only negativity. Youll see my attitude change if you post helpful info.

Yael
2016-11-16, 12:20 PM
I think that multiposting could be against the forum rules? Just saiyan.

Reads rules

Yes it is, and this Quadraposting is kinda off, too.

Anyway, the class has a theme, and I'll review to help, here :smallbiggrin:
Good
Average/Okay
BadHD d8 This is fine. Could be better, but we're not talking on a battle-hardened warrior, but a swift master of the sword. Could be better, but it's okay.
Skills 6+Int. Why that high? The point of a lot of skills is the time you dedicate to be able to learn them to do them easier than those who do not. That's why the rogue has 8+Int and the Fighter 2. I think this should go down to 4, just like the duelist and Swashbucklers'.
Skill list is as the duelist. So we are considering.
Class Skills
The duelistís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
Unless you were refering to the Swashbuckler's skills, which are:
The swashbucklerís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
The second would be better because they are pretty much the same, and improves giving options like diplomacy, and craft.
Base Attack Bonus 3/4, as Cleric. This should be Good, as Fighter. Period.
Saves Good Reflexes Fits the theme. It hurts to have bad Fortitude while being melee, but other classes have done the same.Weapon and Armor Proficiency Proficient with all Light Simple and Martial Weapons, but no armor. Weapon proficiency is fine (this should reflect the Good BAB, but whatever.. Armor is always important, this class will suffer from flat-footed more than it should.
By the way, if this is not including Simple weapons, and instead includes Light (?), we're going wrong.
AC Bonus (Ex) Helps with the lack of armor, but still makes the class even MADer.
Flurry of Blades (Ex) Is weak as its Monk counterpart. Sure it deals a bit more damage, depending on the weapon you're using, and needs no non-approved Amulet of Natural Attacks shenanigans, but still weaker because Flurry of Blows can be used with slashing, piercing or bludgeoning weapons (and to deal non-lethal) at not additional penalty. Additionally, it costs 1 Ki to perform per character level? Hell no! Still fits the theme. Nice name tho.
Evasion (Ex) Solid.
Ki Blade 1 (?) The class' bread and butter I guess.
Elemental Ki Strikes Situational but weak bonus compared to the cost, especially as the cost is minimum 2.
Bane Ki Strike As above, and this one involves a lot of metagame unless you're running the appropiate Knowledges (which this class does not offer)
Otherly Strike Good for evil parties, healing undead is fun :smallbiggrin: Weak otherwise.
Still Mind (Ex) If this works as the Still Mind class feature for the monk, it is pretty useless for this class, unless you take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Anyway, grabs it a level earlier so there's that.
Slow Fall (Ex) Weak. If exactly as monk, you better have a wall to slow that fall on, bro.
Ki Blade 2 (?)
Keen Strike It won't be that useful because the low amount of ki retained. Retardly strong at high levels. This shouldn't stack with Keen.
Bleeding Strike Wow this is very overpowered at high levels. Should be reduced to 2d6 or increase its ki cost. Taking 6d6 for three turns after taking a hit for only 8 ki? No thanks.
Poisonous Strike Should allow a save. This is basically a Black Lotus Extract at level 10th.
Improved Evasion (Ex) Needed.
Ki Blade 3 (?)
Mythical Strike Weak. Should be down to Ki Blade 2.
Hell Strike As Mythical Strike.
God Strike Seriously, these three should be swapped with Ki Blade 2's.
Diamond Body Useful. Not great.
Greater Flurry of Blades (Ex) Same as Flurry of Blades.
Ki Blade 4 (?) No wording on abilities yet.
Keen Ki Strike Nothing yet.
Ki Blade 3 (Chose from 3) (?) Weird wording.
Ki Blade 5 (?) As Ki Blade 4.
Ki Stance No wording.
Ki Aura Unless this is meant to be Ki Stance, which is terribly weak.Weak class. It gains some prestige by ripping off the Unchained Monk's Ki Powers, but still weaker than your average PF Monk, which is what this class is aimed for, I think.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 12:27 PM
Fencing is the generic catch-all term for fighting with a sword. If you're using a longsword, a broadsword, a shortsword, or even a greatsword, you're still fencing.

Anyway, I see a lot of holy/negative/elemental energy stuff in your progression, which to me says "magic user" rather than "master swordsman." Are you trying to make a mundane (someone with no magic ability), or a gish? (someone who's physical abilities are supplemented by magic.)

Question would still minded be a good feat to keep in. It looks good on paper but i dont know how it would actually perform in game.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 12:32 PM
I think that multiposting could be against the forum rules? Just saiyan.

Reads rules

Yes it is, and this Quadraposting is kinda off, too.

Anyway, the class has a theme, and I'll review to help, here :smallbiggrin:
Good
Average/Okay
BadHD d8 This is fine. Could be better, but we're not talking on a battle-hardened warrior, but a swift master of the sword. Could be better, but it's okay.
Skills 6+Int. Why that high? The point of a lot of skills is the time you dedicate to be able to learn them to do them easier than those who do not. That's why the rogue has 8+Int and the Fighter 2. I think this should go down to 4, just like the duelist and Swashbucklers'.
Skill list is as the duelist. So we are considering.
Unless you were refering to the Swashbuckler's skills, which are:
The second would be better because they are pretty much the same, and improves giving options like diplomacy, and craft.
Base Attack Bonus 3/4, as Cleric. This should be Good, as Fighter. Period.
Saves Good Reflexes Fits the theme. It hurts to have bad Fortitude while being melee, but other classes have done the same.Weapon and Armor Proficiency Proficient with all Light Simple and Martial Weapons, but no armor. Weapon proficiency is fine (this should reflect the Good BAB, but whatever.. Armor is always important, this class will suffer from flat-footed more than it should.
By the way, if this is not including Simple weapons, and instead includes Light (?), we're going wrong.
AC Bonus (Ex) Helps with the lack of armor, but still makes the class even MADer.
Flurry of Blades (Ex) Is weak as its Monk counterpart. Sure it deals a bit more damage, depending on the weapon you're using, and needs no non-approved Amulet of Natural Attacks shenanigans, but still weaker because Flurry of Blows can be used with slashing, piercing or bludgeoning weapons (and to deal non-lethal) at not additional penalty. Additionally, it costs 1 Ki to perform per character level? Hell no! Still fits the theme. Nice name tho.
Evasion (Ex) Solid.
Ki Blade 1 (?) The class' bread and butter I guess.
Elemental Ki Strikes Situational but weak bonus compared to the cost, especially as the cost is minimum 2.
Bane Ki Strike As above, and this one involves a lot of metagame unless you're running the appropiate Knowledges (which this class does not offer)
Otherly Strike Good for evil parties, healing undead is fun :smallbiggrin: Weak otherwise.
Still Mind (Ex) If this works as the Still Mind class feature for the monk, it is pretty useless for this class, unless you take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Anyway, grabs it a level earlier so there's that.
Slow Fall (Ex) Weak. If exactly as monk, you better have a wall to slow that fall on, bro.
Ki Blade 2 (?)
Keen Strike It won't be that useful because the low amount of ki retained. Retardly strong at high levels. This shouldn't stack with Keen.
Bleeding Strike Wow this is very overpowered at high levels. Should be reduced to 2d6 or increase its ki cost. Taking 6d6 for three turns after taking a hit for only 8 ki? No thanks.
Poisonous Strike Should allow a save. This is basically a Black Lotus Extract at level 10th.
Improved Evasion (Ex) Needed.
Ki Blade 3 (?)
Mythical Strike Weak. Should be down to Ki Blade 2.
Hell Strike As Mythical Strike.
God Strike Seriously, these three should be swapped with Ki Blade 2's.
Diamond Body Useful. Not great.
Greater Flurry of Blades (Ex) Same as Flurry of Blades.
Ki Blade 4 (?) No wording on abilities yet.
Keen Ki Strike Nothing yet.
Ki Blade 3 (Chose from 3) (?) Weird wording.
Ki Blade 5 (?) As Ki Blade 4.
Ki Stance No wording.
Ki Aura Unless this is meant to be Ki Stance, which is terribly weak.Weak class. It gains some prestige by ripping off the Unchained Monk's Ki Powers, but still weaker than your average PF Monk, which is what this class is aimed for, I think.

I said i would delete whole post if everyone wanted. And sorry about quad post i just wasnt sure how to quote ppl and wasnt sure what it ment. Im new to the site but not to d&d. I wont lye and say ive been creating classes for long but ive been at it for about 8 months. Im in middle pf a rework of pretty much all feats.

Deadline
2016-11-16, 12:50 PM
Also you are meta gaming super hard, bleeding doesnt exist lol ok so your saying that its impossible for someone to bleed out cause this is 3.5. If every homebrew fallowed this logic of having to fallow mechanics that only exist in game then they wouldnt be homebrew now would they. Homebrewing is about experimenting in the making of a new class and there are no rules to homebrewing. I see people make up theyre own mechanics for classes all the time but i bet you it took them awhile to balance out and figure out what really works and what doesnt. So all i ask is to post solutions not only negativity. Youll see my attitude change if you post helpful info.

A couple of things that may help you here:


Criticism is absolutely both valid and vital feedback. You need to know what doesn't work just as much (if not more) as you need to solicit suggestions on how to fix it, or what to add.
If you introduce new mechanics, you need to explain thoroughly how they work. If you don't, people will be forced to make assumptions, and if those assumptions don't line up with your intent, much time is wasted in clarification.
You thus far have not presented much of a theme or vision for this class. If you want people to provide suggestions for what to add, you need to provide guidance for what kind of stuff you want. Otherwise, you'd get a bunch of suggestions that are useless to you, because they don't match the unstated goal you have in your head. Folks here already know that, and aren't going to waste their time trying to guess what you have in your head.
You've referred to both Swashbuckler and Duelist. Are you referring to the base class in Complete Warrior (in which case, that swashbuckler DOES have full BAB), and the Prestige Class in the DMG (which also has full BAB)? If you are referring to Pathfinder stuff, you need to make that clear so people can focus in that direction.
You keep referring to things like Still Mind as feats. These are class features. The things you get to pick every three levels are feats. You need to use the correct names for things, or you will find yourself and those trying to help you will get confused.
You may want to retire the chip on your shoulder, because it isn't doing you any favors. You are, in fact, getting a tremendous amount of helpful feedback (despite your attitude, and not placing this thread in the proper forum). I doubt that will continue if you hold to your current responses.



I said i would delete whole post if everyone wanted. And sorry about quad post i just wasnt sure how to quote ppl and wasnt sure what it ment. Im new to the site but not to d&d. I wont lye and say ive been creating classes for long but ive been at it for about 8 months. Im in middle pf a rework of pretty much all feats.

There's a little "Reply With Quote" link in the bottom right corner of every post. Use that to quote someone.

Yael
2016-11-16, 01:07 PM
A couple of things that may help you here:


Criticism is absolutely both valid and vital feedback. You need to know what doesn't work just as much (if not more) as you need to solicit suggestions on how to fix it, or what to add.
If you introduce new mechanics, you need to explain thoroughly how they work. If you don't, people will be forced to make assumptions, and if those assumptions don't line up with your intent, much time is wasted in clarification.
You thus far have not presented much of a theme or vision for this class. If you want people to provide suggestions for what to add, you need to provide guidance for what kind of stuff you want. Otherwise, you'd get a bunch of suggestions that are useless to you, because they don't match the unstated goal you have in your head. Folks here already know that, and aren't going to waste their time trying to guess what you have in your head.
You've referred to both Swashbuckler and Duelist. Are you referring to the base class in Complete Warrior (in which case, that swashbuckler DOES have full BAB), and the Prestige Class in the DMG (which also has full BAB)? If you are referring to Pathfinder stuff, you need to make that clear so people can focus in that direction.
You keep referring to things like Still Mind as feats. These are class features. The things you get to pick every three levels are feats. You need to use the correct names for things, or you will find yourself and those trying to help you will get confused.
You may want to retire the chip on your shoulder, because it isn't doing you any favors. You are, in fact, getting a tremendous amount of helpful feedback (despite your attitude, and not placing this thread in the proper forum). I doubt that will continue if you hold to your current responses.

So so much much this this.

There's a little "Reply With Quote" link in the bottom right corner of every post. Use that to quote someone.

The little '' in the right of the Reply with Quote button helps to quote multiple posts in one shot.

Jack_McSnatch
2016-11-16, 01:46 PM
Question would still minded be a good feat to keep in. It looks good on paper but i dont know how it would actually perform in game.

Still mind and slow fall are kinda cool thematically, but they aren't super useful in actual game play. You need access to a wall to slow fall, and DMs rarely resort to mind controlling your character. If they do, I promise that +2 isn't going to help.

Bonus feats would be a good option, so you can shape the character's combat style appropriately. (a master with a rapier isn't going to fight the same way as a scimitar master or a greatsword master.) something to help them not get squished would also be beneficial. Your sword could give you a shield bonus to AC that improves as you level, for example.

And listen to the people above, no offense but you really could benefit from some chill. Negative criticism is just as valuable as positive.

Edit: you also keep bringing up metagaming, which doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. Metagaming is applying outside knowledge to in game situations. It's a nonmagic fighter who knows that the leader of the arcane college is a vampire cause he uses the name Alucard. In the case of working the mechanics of a class... There's no "in game" to violate with outside knowledge. We are in fact designing the metagame.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 02:12 PM
Still mind and slow fall are kinda cool thematically, but they aren't super useful in actual game play. You need access to a wall to slow fall, and DMs rarely resort to mind controlling your character. If they do, I promise that +2 isn't going to help.

Bonus feats would be a good option, so you can shape the character's combat style appropriately. (a master with a rapier isn't going to fight the same way as a scimitar master or a greatsword master.) something to help them not get squished would also be beneficial. Your sword could give you a shield bonus to AC that improves as you level, for example.

And listen to the people above, no offense but you really could benefit from some chill. Negative criticism is just as valuable as positive.

Im not trying to be rude if it comes out that way in this poste. But negative posting with no solutions is about as useful as, to put it bluntly, a **** flavoured lolly pop. And i dont say this because i dont know this. Im in charge of a program called lean at were i work. Now this is the process of leaning out wasted time but it also requires feed back from a team of people. The reason negative feed back with no solution is uneffective is cause the person doesnt know how to fix the problem just that their is a problem. Now if i know a problem is there but dont know how to fix it and the person who told me about the problem doesnt offer some ideas on how to fix the problem then how does it get fixed. What happens is when someone informs you about a problem that you are not firmliar with and then walks away and doesnt help you solve that problem by combind thinking then it causes the issues you have just witnessed. Basically dont say theres a problem unless you have a solution. Like you just posted to me. You didnt just say hey thats wrong and oh well your offering solutions to the problem at hand meaning your creating combind thinking to solve the issue. Witch is why im trying not to be rude to you and i also appreciate your feed back because you gave solutions, references, and things to look for while im looking at these references. You have been a great help but people who just say it sucks (to be short, they actually say more but give no solutions.) are not helpful and i dont need that in my life. Im just trying to create something and want help. I dont want to here about how it just sucks and then thats it. Do you understand what im trying to say? I also realize that I do need more detail. Its just hard from a phone trying to type honestly lol.

TheIronGolem
2016-11-16, 02:20 PM
And listen to the people above, no offense but you really could benefit from some chill. Negative criticism is just as valuable as positive.

In addition, negative criticism does not need to be accompanied by an equal amount of positive feedback as you (the OP) have implied. In other words, if someone says there are a bunch of things wrong with your class, they're not under some kind of obligation to say positive things about it too, to do your work for you by telling you how to fix those problems, or to treat your creation like a diamond in the rough. Don't try to sell me a vacuum cleaner and then yell at me when I point out that it doesn't clean carpets very well. I'm not the one who needs to fix your broken vacuum.

Also, "stop metagaming" is a nonsensical response to criticism of a class design. By definition, the whole discussion - including your part in it - is about metagame constructs. If we're "metagaming" by pointing out the (many and severe) flaws in the class you've made, then you were metagaming when you made it, and you continue to metagame every time you defend it or ask for further input. But really, "metagaming" isn't happening at all, because we're not playing a game here, we're talking about a game. You can't be metagaming if you're not gaming.

I recommend you learn how to create tables in a post. They're an invaluable tool for presenting classes in a readable format that resembles the layout you'd see in a book. This will reduce the confusion you've been seeing and make it much easier for people to get a handle on your class. There are many examples of table usage in the Homebrew forum. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?150122-3-5-The-Monk-Remixed) is one example I found that is currently on the first page of that subforum. If you start a reply to the first post on that thread, you'll be able to see the code for that table; then you can copy and adapt it for your own work.

On a similar note, you should really slow down and take your time to type out your posts in reasonably proper English. Use the Preview button and read what you wrote, from the perspective of someone who doesn't know what you're thinking. Go back and edit anything that doesn't make sense or gives the wrong impression when viewed from that perspective. You don't need to be a "grammar Nazi" (a cliche and overused phrase, incidentally, and has been for decades), but you do need to think about what you're saying and how best to say it intelligibly. Right now, you're showing your own class very little respect by not bothering to present it in a clean or easily-readable manner. You can hardly expect us to treat your class with more respect than you do.

Finally, you need to stop taking this personally. We're criticizing your class, and your presentation of that class, because there's a lot about those things to criticize. But nobody is insulting you here.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 02:35 PM
In addition, negative criticism does not need to be accompanied by an equal amount of positive feedback as you (the OP) have implied. In other words, if someone says there are a bunch of things wrong with your class, they're not under some kind of obligation to say positive things about it too, to do your work for you by telling you how to fix those problems, or to treat your creation like a diamond in the rough. Don't try to sell me a vacuum cleaner and then yell at me when I point out that it doesn't clean carpets very well. I'm not the one who needs to fix your broken vacuum.

Also, "stop metagaming" is a nonsensical response to criticism of a class design. By definition, the whole discussion - including your part in it - is about metagame constructs. If we're "metagaming" by pointing out the (many and severe) flaws in the class you've made, then you were metagaming when you made it, and you continue to metagame every time you defend it or ask for further input. But really, "metagaming" isn't happening at all, because we're not playing a game here, we're talking about a game. You can't be metagaming if you're not gaming.

I recommend you learn how to create tables in a post. They're an invaluable tool for presenting classes in a readable format that resembles the layout you'd see in a book. This will reduce the confusion you've been seeing and make it much easier for people to get a handle on your class. There are many examples of table usage in the Homebrew forum. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?150122-3-5-The-Monk-Remixed) is one example I found that is currently on the first page of that subforum. If you start a reply to the first post on that thread, you'll be able to see the code for that table; then you can copy and adapt it for your own work.

On a similar note, you should really slow down and take your time to type out your posts in reasonably proper English. Use the Preview button and read what you wrote, from the perspective of someone who doesn't know what you're thinking. Go back and edit anything that doesn't make sense or gives the wrong impression when viewed from that perspective. You don't need to be a "grammar Nazi" (a cliche and overused phrase, incidentally, and has been for decades), but you do need to think about what you're saying and how best to say it intelligibly. Right now, you're showing your own class very little respect by not bothering to present it in a clean or easily-readable manner. You can hardly expect us to treat your class with more respect than you do.

Finally, you need to stop taking this personally. We're criticizing your class, and your presentation of that class, because there's a lot about those things to criticize. But nobody is insulting you here.

See grammar nazi wasnt supossed to he an insult. I was stating im not good gramaticly, is that how you spell it. Also do to other as you want done to you. I wouldnt post a negative comment to you, unless i had a solution. If you go to a mechanics forum and ask a question about your car or are looking for advice on how to make your car faster, people on that forum wouldnt be like hey that car sucks you cant make it faster or that wont work for your car. Instead they post solutions thats what a forum is for solutions to problems for people who dont have the knowledge to do so. If this is not a site for that then what is it for. It would be useless as a forum then. But like i said you have been actually helpful with your feed back.


Still mind and slow fall are kinda cool thematically, but they aren't super useful in actual game play. You need access to a wall to slow fall, and DMs rarely resort to mind controlling your character. If they do, I promise that +2 isn't going to help.

Bonus feats would be a good option, so you can shape the character's combat style appropriately. (a master with a rapier isn't going to fight the same way as a scimitar master or a greatsword master.) something to help them not get squished would also be beneficial. Your sword could give you a shield bonus to AC that improves as you level, for example.

And listen to the people above, no offense but you really could benefit from some chill. Negative criticism is just as valuable as positive.

Edit: you also keep bringing up metagaming, which doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. Metagaming is applying outside knowledge to in game situations. It's a nonmagic fighter who knows that the leader of the arcane college is a vampire cause he uses the name Alucard. In the case of working the mechanics of a class... There's no "in game" to violate with outside knowledge. We are in fact designing the metagame.

Meta gaming is exactly what you just stated but you forgot its with a prescribed set of rules, meaning your outside knowledge of the D&D rule set not homebrewed rulings.

TheIronGolem
2016-11-16, 02:49 PM
If you go to a mechanics forum and ask a question about your car or are looking for advice on how to make your car faster, people on that forum wouldnt be like hey that car sucks you cant make it faster or that wont work for your car. Instead they post solutions thats what a forum is for solutions to problems for people who dont have the knowledge to do so.
In that analogy, you wouldn't be the guy asking for help making his car go faster. You'd be a guy who hastily scribbled an engine design on a napkin and posted a scan to the mechanics' forum. Rest assured, you'd get plenty of responses telling you that your engine isn't going to work properly because it'll be prone to overheating or incapable of providing adequate torque or whatever. Those responses would be valid feedback despite not including a completely redesigned blueprint for you.

The fact is, you have been receiving useful feedback from the start. You've been told fairly specific things about what's wrong with your class that you need to fix. That you haven't been had solutions to those problems handed to you on a silver platter isn't a character flaw on the forum's part.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 02:55 PM
In that analogy, you wouldn't be the guy asking for help making his car go faster. You'd be a guy who hastily scribbled an engine design on a napkin and posted a scan to the mechanics' forum. Rest assured, you'd get plenty of responses telling you that your engine isn't going to work properly because it'll be prone to overheating or incapable of providing adequate torque or whatever. Those responses would be valid feedback despite not including a completely redesigned blueprint for you.

The fact is, you have been receiving useful feedback from the start. You've been told fairly specific things about what's wrong with your class that you need to fix. That you haven't been had solutions to those problems handed to you on a silver platter isn't a character flaw on the forum's part.

Your right its the people posting. Im not asking for you to take the class and rework if for me im asking advice on how to fix it. Posting just the negatives and no solutions is useless cause im telling you all that im not sure how to fix it myself. A 100 posts saying the class wont work isnt going me any good whem i keep telling people im not sure how to fix it myself.

Jack_McSnatch
2016-11-16, 03:16 PM
Before I have to go to my own work, here's a couple suggestions to improve the class functionality. We already pointed out better BaB, saves, and skill list, so I'll skip those.

An anti-magic ability. D&D is a game primarily about magic. Fighter types are always at a disadvantage, and this class is no exception. I would suggest a Spell Turning ability at higher levels. It can even be fluffed as "the character has learned how to parry magic."

Something that actually benefits from high speed. +60ft movement, dayum. That's fast, but all it really means is your character can get in and out of combat quickly. There's a move in a number of martial arts styles armed and unarmed in which you step behind your opponent as soon as you find their blind spot. Mechanically, this would be the Acrobatic backstab skill trick, but a class ability that does something similar seems like it should be on here.

I talked earlier about how the abilities don't really revolve around use of a sword, and that's still there. This character would do the same thing if he were using a hammer, or a spear. I'd give them an automatic weapon focus. They choose their specific weapon (must be a form of sword) and can only use their abilities for that specific weapon. Have them count as fighters for the purposes of specialization and such.

Finally, a really simple one. Variable damage type. Long story short, the BLADE isn't the weapon, the weapon is the WHOLE SWORD. Blade, crossguard, pommel, and all. Allow the to do slashing piercing or bludgeoning with a sword.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 03:39 PM
Before I have to go to my own work, here's a couple suggestions to improve the class functionality. We already pointed out better BaB, saves, and skill list, so I'll skip those.

An anti-magic ability. D&D is a game primarily about magic. Fighter types are always at a disadvantage, and this class is no exception. I would suggest a Spell Turning ability at higher levels. It can even be fluffed as "the character has learned how to parry magic."

Something that actually benefits from high speed. +60ft movement, dayum. That's fast, but all it really means is your character can get in and out of combat quickly. There's a move in a number of martial arts styles armed and unarmed in which you step behind your opponent as soon as you find their blind spot. Mechanically, this would be the Acrobatic backstab skill trick, but a class ability that does something similar seems like it should be on here.

I talked earlier about how the abilities don't really revolve around use of a sword, and that's still there. This character would do the same thing if he were using a hammer, or a spear. I'd give them an automatic weapon focus. They choose their specific weapon (must be a form of sword) and can only use their abilities for that specific weapon. Have them count as fighters for the purposes of specialization and such.

Finally, a really simple one. Variable damage type. Long story short, the BLADE isn't the weapon, the weapon is the WHOLE SWORD. Blade, crossguard, pommel, and all. Allow the to do slashing piercing or bludgeoning with a sword.

This information is very helpful and i thank you for it.

Swaoeaeieu
2016-11-16, 03:44 PM
Your right its the people posting. Im not asking for you to take the class and rework if for me im asking advice on how to fix it. Posting just the negatives and no solutions is useless cause im telling you all that im not sure how to fix it myself. A 100 posts saying the class wont work isnt going me any good whem i keep telling people im not sure how to fix it myself.

i think for now all people can do is point out things that dont work well. Because, and i just checked, it was my first reply to your post. We dont know what you are trying to achieve with this class? What niche does it need to fill, what do you want it to accomplish?

people cant help you design a fast car if you dont give them a speed and price range for wich to design against right? So if you tell us what you want out of this class, we would be happy to offer suggestions. Also, what game is this for? dnd 3.5 or pathfinder?

also, as someone said before, it would really help if you put the original build in a table, the forum has a nice tool for this i believe. It would make it all much easier to read.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-16, 04:01 PM
i think for now all people can do is point out things that dont work well. Because, and i just checked, it was my first reply to your post. We dont know what you are trying to achieve with this class? What niche does it need to fill, what do you want it to accomplish?

people cant help you design a fast car if you dont give them a speed and price range for wich to design against right? So if you tell us what you want out of this class, we would be happy to offer suggestions. Also, what game is this for? dnd 3.5 or pathfinder?

also, as someone said before, it would really help if you put the original build in a table, the forum has a nice tool for this i believe. It would make it all much easier to read.

Yes i agree but at the moment im stuck with a phone and cant do the table thing yet. As for what game, 3.5 sorry i know i shouldve put that but i forgot. For what i want the class to do, i want it to be a class that can counter attack, reposite ( is how i think you spell it.), mobility ( as in i want him to be maneuverable, not the feature.), and have ki to use to either gain an advantage, gain attack and damage, and maybe to buff him slightly ( in a sense of ac buffs or stat buffs or event saves buffs.). Other than that, Ill let you know if i actually want the class to do more or if i forgot anything. Thank you for feed back. Btw i didnt answer your original post cause I changed the class completely im sorry for that.

Jack_McSnatch
2016-11-16, 04:14 PM
reposite ( is how i think you spell it.)

Riposte is the proper term for the counter attack you make after a Parry

Deadline
2016-11-16, 04:32 PM
Basically dont say theres a problem unless you have a solution.

In my opinion and experience, this is a terrible way to conduct any sort of work. You can't fix problems you don't know about. Telling people not to report problems is a really good way to produce work that is full of terrible defects. That's obviously not what you want, but unfortunately that's what you'd wind up with. I have no idea what field you work in where that's a thing they actively want, but I can tell you that it would absolutely horrify anyone I've worked with for the past 22 years.

If you are frustrated because people are pointing out things you already knew about, then you need to be clearer in your communication. Post a listing of issues you are aware of, and you'll get a whole lot less people reporting those issues to you. I can't read your mind, so I can't know if you've already seen Tome of Battle, or the Kensai PrC, or even if you know that the Monk is a terribly designed and underpowered class. So to help you out and establish a baseline to work from, I have to point those things out. I also can't tell if you don't know that martial classes can't do their job well unless they've got reasonable defenses, decent hitpoints, and good BAB. And as I said earlier, you've given no direction to what you want, you've simply asked "how do I fix this?" with no indication of what you'd consider to be a fix. Simple things like "I want this to be balanced with a Ranger" or "I want this to be a credible melee threat at all levels from 1-20" would give us a basic framework to work in, but you haven't even given us that.

One of the problems you are running into here is that you are not being very clear in your communication at all (perhaps because you are posting from a phone, which is always difficult), and then seem to be taking the stance that the burden is on us to understand, rather than on you to be understood. In my experience, that isn't how communication works. YMMV.

How about this, when you get time to post from your PC rather than your phone, could you clear up the first post with a table, clear up your spelling and wording a bit, lay out what you expect this class to do, and list the problems you are already aware of and are seeking help to fix?

gooddragon1
2016-11-16, 07:38 PM
Kylecaraway, the posters on these boards usually have a lot of experience in the editions they are invested in. As such they have a good idea if something is balanced or not. Unfortunately this can come off as just hating on an idea when not worded well. They don't give suggestions as to how to change something because the creative part comes from you. It might be better to describe what you're going for with a particular thing and ask why something is overpowered. Though usually it feels like homebrewing here isn't something that's done collaboratively so much as it's like defending a piece of work and maybe making a few alterations. So you have to be like 90% done with the homebrew at least. If you phrase your request as asking for ideas you'll probably get flooded and the ones you don't take will cause those people to not weigh in. I'll review your class when I've got more time and give some "less harsh" feedback if possible. I'd like to think that I know a decent amount of stuff about 3.5 and my class got hit with some stern commentary here: Focused Champion (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?501462-Focused-Champion-(3-5-Base-Class)).

To mix things up I had a brainstorming thread (because I tend to have one way of making things): www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?500862-Partially-brainstorming-a-3-5-class

EDIT: It's easy to have a lot of artistic/creative pride in something you've made and not want to change. The key is to find the balance between whether something is too strong and when someone just wants something to look more like something else. Preserve the flavor and mechanics you are seeking to create, but know that sometimes something could be too strong (either on it's own* or sometimes in conjunction with something else).

*Example: In the focused champion class I linked, I had an ability for the class that replaced an ability check with a skill check (against tripping). This would have effectively caused trip attempts to fail a large amount of the time against the class. It was an oversight on my part. However, when pressured about the complexity of the damage mechanic I pointed out how it really isn't terribly complicated and that there are always other classes for people who don't like keeping track of a few extra numbers.

Inevitability
2016-11-17, 01:09 AM
Brief remark: you know expletives, even censored ones, are against the forum rules?

gooddragon1
2016-11-17, 06:15 PM
Looking over what you've got so far:

The class has full base attack bonus, but flurry of blades looks like it's using 3/4 BAB. Did you intend this or should it be using full BAB?
The cost for using flurry of blades is 1 per character level. Does this mean that at 20th level you must spend 20 ki to use flurry of blades?

Here's some advice/notes:
You could limit the Ki pool to a smaller amount and keep the cost constant for using flurry of blades.

Giving the class full BAB when flurrying wouldn't be out of the question as it costs a non-renewable resource to flurry.

You could alternatively make the ki pool a renewable resource that takes an action or full round action to restore. This would be similar to how a warblade refreshes maneuvers but with a flexibility reminiscent of psionic power points vs spell slots.

There is always the problem of not being able to move and full attack that many classes run into without using pounce. Perhaps you could give the ki sword master a variety of different attack types (or other options) they could use their ki pool on. Note that with flexibility comes balance issues of course. These are just some ideas.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-18, 10:44 AM
Riposte is the proper term for the counter attack you make after a Parry

Thank you.

Kylecaraway
2016-11-18, 10:53 AM
In my opinion and experience, this is a terrible way to conduct any sort of work. You can't fix problems you don't know about. Telling people not to report problems is a really good way to produce work that is full of terrible defects. That's obviously not what you want, but unfortunately that's what you'd wind up with. I have no idea what field you work in where that's a thing they actively want, but I can tell you that it would absolutely horrify anyone I've worked with for the past 22 years.

If you are frustrated because people are pointing out things you already knew about, then you need to be clearer in your communication. Post a listing of issues you are aware of, and you'll get a whole lot less people reporting those issues to you. I can't read your mind, so I can't know if you've already seen Tome of Battle, or the Kensai PrC, or even if you know that the Monk is a terribly designed and underpowered class. So to help you out and establish a baseline to work from, I have to point those things out. I also can't tell if you don't know that martial classes can't do their job well unless they've got reasonable defenses, decent hitpoints, and good BAB. And as I said earlier, you've given no direction to what you want, you've simply asked "how do I fix this?" with no indication of what you'd consider to be a fix. Simple things like "I want this to be balanced with a Ranger" or "I want this to be a credible melee threat at all levels from 1-20" would give us a basic framework to work in, but you haven't even given us that.

One of the problems you are running into here is that you are not being very clear in your communication at all (perhaps because you are posting from a phone, which is always difficult), and then seem to be taking the stance that the burden is on us to understand, rather than on you to be understood. In my experience, that isn't how communication works. YMMV.

How about this, when you get time to post from your PC rather than your phone, could you clear up the first post with a table, clear up your spelling and wording a bit, lay out what you expect this class to do, and list the problems you are already aware of and are seeking help to fix?

Have you ever herd of lean. It specifically explains that just pointing out flaws are not enough and that sometimes you need multiple mind to fix certain issues. It also does alot of other things as well like teaches you to improve efficiency in you assembly lines. But the 5s part of it requires a team of people to group together, point out negatives, then work together to solve them. If in this you only point out negatives then nothing would get solved. But i get what you mean by i need to be more clear but i went to a site with a coding set up but they dont explain what to fill in except fill in between arrows but where you put the bab, saves, etc., they dont explain how to fipl that in so i was forced to fill out like this.

Deadline
2016-11-18, 12:06 PM
Have you ever herd of lean. It specifically explains that just pointing out flaws are not enough and that sometimes you need multiple mind to fix certain issues. It also does alot of other things as well like teaches you to improve efficiency in you assembly lines. But the 5s part of it requires a team of people to group together, point out negatives, then work together to solve them. If in this you only point out negatives then nothing would get solved. But i get what you mean by i need to be more clear but i went to a site with a coding set up but they dont explain what to fill in except fill in between arrows but where you put the bab, saves, etc., they dont explain how to fipl that in so i was forced to fill out like this.

If you are talking about the management philosophy that includes the Kaizen process, then yes (I've used it myself for several years now). And it most certainly does not tell you to avoid reporting a problem unless you also have a solution. Which is what I was getting at in my posts. I'm going to go ahead and assume that bit was hyperbole on your part and move on.

If you need assistance on using the tables here on the forums, all you needed to do was ask. :smallsmile:

Here's a sample table you can use or modify (if you quote my post, you'll see the code for the table):



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Ki Pool
AC Bonus
Speed
Class Features


1st
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


2nd
+2
+3
+3
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


3rd
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


4th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


5th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


6th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


7th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


8th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


9th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


10th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


11th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


12th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


13th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


14th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


15th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
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16th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


17th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


18th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


19th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here


20th
+1
+2
+2
+0
0
+0
+0
Any class features at this level go here

khadgar567
2016-11-18, 12:21 PM
okay small idea to help class. since we only use swords and we have no ranged option we can use sword beam as our ranged attack were ki sword master uses ki to cut were he can not reach damage might be 1d6 per ki point were he can adjust the power level of his swipe