5e Mass Combat Rules-Help

[PancakeUniverse]

This is my 2nd post, so I apologize for any format issues.
I am going to plan a large-scale battle for my 4th-level party's next adventure using the UA mass combat rules. They will be helping defend a city from an army of hobgoblins.
As far as I am concerned, each stand/solo gets 10 actions (10 creatures attack once/one creature attacks 10 times) in one-minute rounds. This makes sense as far as stands interacting, but I find interacting with solos to be confusing.

Does this mean that damage against solos should be multiplied by 10? I find it weird that a fighter can fight 10 hobgoblins as effectively as he would fight one.

What about a solo fighting another solo?

How does a solo take damage if it joins a stand?

If the damage is multiplied by 10, would a battle like this be too hard for 5 4th-level PCs?

Correct me if I am wrong about anything in this system. Also, please inform me of anything I should know about (issues, etc.) with this mass combat system, or if there are better mass combat systems I should use instead.

Edit:"planning to plan" sounded stupid

[Specter]

That's one of the doubts I have myself.

[MrStabby]

I haven't found anything I am perfectly happy with but I would say, don't use it and see if you can draw things out till you find a better system.

If you have any wargame/minatures games then adapting those is better.

If I were to run a battle again now, without more time to mull over better rules, I would just use composite units of enemies and allies (A zombie mob has 500 HP and can make 16 attacks or whatever, and with attacks dropping off as damage is sustained).

[Kane0]

Those rules are a bit of a mess.

What is your situation exactly? Easier to do rules for what you have instead of getting an exhaustive system set up that just makes your life miserable.

[PancakeUniverse]

From these suggestions and a read-over of the UA system, I agree that these rules are kind of a mess. I don't really need a fancy battle system right now (they are only 4th level), I just want my players to be in awe as the battle rages around them. Flavorful descriptions will probably be the bulk of the battle, as my players really like that. Rules-wise, I'll just do as MrStabby suggested and use composite units of creatures, while also allowing the PCs to join their ranks to get into the fighting. Making 10+ attack rolls per turn sounds like a drag, so I'll make one attack for every unit of creatures and combine the damage dice. Also, attacks and spells that have more than one target can target the same unit twice. Do you guys think this will serve as a temporary placeholder until I can get a better battle system?

[Specter]

You could also make damage scale by how high the roll is, ignoring criticals. For instance, if the Fighter's AC is 20, every +1 on the dice above 20 amounts to an extra attack. So if the mob rolls 25 total, it's as if he took 6 attacks.

[wkinahan]

As I understood the rules, unlike in normal combat, the entire round was one minute. Each Stand gets an action, movement and bonus action. Every 10 creatures is treated as 1 creature, unless that creature is noteworthy enough to be a solo (like a PC). I think this is just to keep the flow of the combat easier, and so long as the solo is with a group of other soldiers, they won't be the only creature targeted (with at least 10 others helping defend them defend themselves)

However if the solo is isolated, they take double damage, attacks against have advantage, and they have disadvantage on the attack rolls. Its not quite the same as having 10 guys fighting 1, but I think its more to have the cinematic battle feel then normal adventuring combat.

Everyone gets to act til the end of initiative too. So even if knocked down to 0hp, until the end of the round, they can keep fighting, Boromir style.

[Kane0]

- Each round is 1 minute of action
- Each entity is a cluster of creatures that can fit in a certain space (like 20' radius or something), usually the same or similar crreatures
- Each entity has combined HP of all creatures and deals damage on a hit as if all creatures did (take avergae to save time). If not all creatures can perform a particular attack (like casting a spell or extra attack) then only those that can are counted, the others don't contribute.
- Entities that take damage deal less damage proportional to damage taken. If an entity is reduced to 50% or less HP, roll a morale check (Wis save) or they are routed and flee.
- Area of effect spells quadruple triple damage to entities if targeted wholly/directly, or double damage if partially targeted (entity takes up more space than AoE, AoE placed between two entities, etc)
- Entities can only attack other entities (or buildings I guess)
- Heroes (PCs) act separately and individually, treat anything attacking the party as a regular combat

Took about 5 mins thought, let me know if it helps haha

[Sigreid]

The best mass combat rules for me are the West End Games Star Wars rules. Figure out the relative strength of each side and focus entirely on the party. Present the party with challenges based on the relative strength of their side (deadly challenges for when their side is out matched, lesser difficulties if their side has the edge). Then just describe what is happening in the rest of the battle with their side doing about as well as the party overall. When the party is doing well, their side seems indomitable. When the party is getting kicked around pretty good, their side is taking heavy losses, etc.

Doing it this way you get to put all the spotlight on your heroes, you don't have to keep track of a lot of stuff, and your heroes know that they are the deciding factor in the battle.

[Kane0]

It also allows your party to make fantastic tactical decisions without getting hung up on mechanics.

[PancakeUniverse]

- Each round is 1 minute of action
- Each entity is a cluster of creatures that can fit in a certain space (like 20' radius or something), usually the same or similar crreatures
- Each entity has combined HP of all creatures and deals damage on a hit as if all creatures did (take avergae to save time). If not all creatures can perform a particular attack (like casting a spell or extra attack) then only those that can are counted, the others don't contribute.
- Entities that take damage deal less damage proportional to damage taken. If an entity is reduced to 50% or less HP, roll a morale check (Wis save) or they are routed and flee.
- Area of effect spells quadruple triple damage to entities if targeted wholly/directly, or double damage if partially targeted (entity takes up more space than AoE, AoE placed between two entities, etc)
- Entities can only attack other entities (or buildings I guess)
- Heroes (PCs) act separately and individually, treat anything attacking the party as a regular combat

Took about 5 mins thought, let me know if it helps haha

This is a good, basic, barebones system that I can easily edit based on the circumstances. My players probably would get confused by anything more complicated than this (hell, some struggle to grasp the normal combat system). The troops could also realistically weaken every time they lose (single creature hit points) of their health.


You could also make damage scale by how high the roll is, ignoring criticals. For instance, if the Fighter's AC is 20, every +1 on the dice above 20 amounts to an extra attack. So if the mob rolls 25 total, it's as if he took 6 attacks.

This is great! That way, my players won't be downed in one round.


The best mass combat rules for me are the West End Games Star Wars rules. Figure out the relative strength of each side and focus entirely on the party. Present the party with challenges based on the relative strength of their side (deadly challenges for when their side is out matched, lesser difficulties if their side has the edge). Then just describe what is happening in the rest of the battle with their side doing about as well as the party overall. When the party is doing well, their side seems indomitable. When the party is getting kicked around pretty good, their side is taking heavy losses, etc.

Doing it this way you get to put all the spotlight on your heroes, you don't have to keep track of a lot of stuff, and your heroes know that they are the deciding factor in the battle.

They are only 4th level and maybe not the DECIDING factor, but they will have a much larger impact than, say, a single soldier. I will incorporate this into the battle mechanically and using good descriptions, from changing troop compositions depending on how well the players are doing to providing views of the distant battles being won/lost based on their circumstances. They will only be fighting on one or two fronts, so a messenger saying "Heavy losses on the South Wall! Requesting reinforcements immediately!" before being struck with a spear will add the atmosphere to this relatively barebones system we have created.


Everyone gets to act til the end of initiative too. So even if knocked down to 0hp, until the end of the round, they can keep fighting, Boromir style.

I FORGOT ABOUT THAT. The thought of a fighter spending his last breaths shredding through enemy troops is too good of an opportunity to pass up.

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys! :smallsmile: